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 Sqorgar wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I fully support Rogue Trader as an expansion that adds 2 new factions and a new environment. I am against "Commanders" in its rumoured form as a DLC that feels to me like it should have been in the base game.

Before you knew Commanders was a thing, did you feel like Kill Team was incomplete without them or something like them?

Having played it a couple of times I did find it lacking in quite a few options - on the other hand - I see things like RT as a great addition to 40k so happy to see it, much more than KT itself. Hoping same ofr the next "KT" box set.

Ben2 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
So let me get this straight, when Kill Team was first announced people were cynically saying it wouldn't be supported despite claims to the contrary up front from GW, who said expansions would come for the game and there was years of ongoing support planned. These people remained cynical and said they'd believe it when they see it and that this was another one and done game to cash in on new terrain and nothing more.

Now that GW has started to follow through on their promise of expansions and forecast more to come, suddenly ongoing support is a bad thing and GW should have just made a complete one and done game and left it at that.

I feel like this is aimed at me?

I fully support Rogue Trader as an expansion that adds 2 new factions and a new environment. I am against "Commanders" in its rumoured form as a DLC that feels to me like it should have been in the base game. If, say, the rules for Fast Attack were cut from 40k and then sold as a separate book, that's not an expansion to me. It's cutting out part of the full game so you can charge me more for the complete experience.

You are totally free to not play with the new options and skills trees and tactics in the Commanders booklet.

The relentless hate some Dakka posters have for new releases, new rules and new games is part of what makes news and rumour threads almost unreadable, because genuine news is swamped with the same half a dozen people who've been hating everything for the last five years posting about how it isn't the perfect product for them and they won't buy it and it is terrible and ruining everything.

Do people not get tired of it? Not get tired of posting almost the same thing in every thread?

Sure?

Maybe?

Dakka Dakka has a pretty good <IGNORE> feature - it isn't perfect, but it can make your overall experience here more enjoyable...

Anyway, I'll be staying on the sidelines with KT until the 'Commanders' expansion drops.

And the Inquistion one too, probably.

And if a list of giant whiners who never say anything of value was compiled and posted for everyone to put on ignore that would solve a bunch of the problems on dakka, though most threads would rarely reach three pages.

For anyone interested, "Voidsmen" are mentioned as commonly being seconded to Inquisitors.

Also, Aximillion(the dog) is a Scout Specialist for the purposes of Kill Team. That's all the important news you need.

Ben2 wrote:And if a list of giant whiners who never say anything of value was compiled and posted for everyone to put on ignore that would solve a bunch of the problems on dakka, though most threads would rarely reach three pages.

Yeah, that's not how this discussion forum works though.

Best to literally ignore the users that stress you out.

Kanluwen wrote:For anyone interested, "Voidsmen" are mentioned as commonly being seconded to Inquisitors.

Also, Aximillion(the dog) is a Scout Specialist for the purposes of Kill Team. That's all the important news you need.

Very nice!

Love the Voidsmen models, so hopefully more will show up when the Inquisitors show up in KT.

Ben2 wrote:
And if a list of giant whiners who never say anything of value was compiled and posted for everyone to put on ignore that would solve a bunch of the problems on dakka, though most threads would rarely reach three pages.

I prefer a list of people who can't handle differing opinions and spend all their time in rumour threads complaining about what other people think and say. Oh wait, I have one of those already....boop. Threads truck along just fine with that list active, by the way.

These models are somehow even better looking in person (well, as models usually pretty much always do). Aximillion is glorious and Prond is beautifully creepy. Love them all really, not to mention how amazingly 3D the Nurgle half is with insanely deep detail and some great poses.

Some of the best models they’ve produced so far imo.

I have been looking in getting into KT but don't want to commit much money. Basicly Just want to build some teams and convert sculpt some of it. With that said whats the best way to go about it? I mean can I get away with just the rulebook or do I need to get the full box set which has loads of cards? Are the cards essential to the play each faction or can we just ignore them?

You can certainly get around with just the core manual as a means of starting out and exploring the game. The optional data card pack is handy as it includes the standard stratagem and specialist cards open to all factions, but it's not really needed as all of that is also found in the core manual.

As for the faction-specific cards.. The real downside of those is that the faction starters have some unique cards included that are not found elsewhere right now.

A lot of people don't play with the faction-specific cards, or at least won't until every faction has them.

You can definitely get into Kill Team with just the book and a box of miniatures. There are a few factions where you can't make a kill team with one box, but that's more the exception than the rule.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
These models are somehow even better looking in person (well, as models usually pretty much always do). Aximillion is glorious and Prond is beautifully creepy. Love them all really, not to mention how amazingly 3D the Nurgle half is with insanely deep detail and some great poses.

Some of the best models they’ve produced so far imo.

They do what I've begged for for ages, skirmish/KT/Mordheim band on a large sprue with very unique models and varying silhouettes and sizes - and it's delivering great results. If only they had listened to me ages ago

Of course I would've wanted several bands released as stand-alone expansions instead of two together (and not at roughly 50€ per side ) with a game mode, but it's a nice way ro test the waters. The rumoured =I= and Commander expansions will give us 2 or 4 more bands, maybe, but likely "only" things like Inquisitors, more Chaos and marines. "Safer" stuff. Let's hope for KT3 in a few years with crazy teams like a Magos Biologus entourage of beasts and freaks, proper Eldar corsairs, more Tau auxillaries and several xenos species only mentioned in the fluff or things like that.

 Yodhrin wrote:

I prefer a list of people who can't handle differing opinions and spend all their time in rumour threads complaining about what other people think and say. Oh wait, I have one of those already....boop. Threads truck along just fine with that list active, by the way.

I feel like there has been an upsurge of people who only post to mock other peoples' opinions.

Best to just report them and move on.

It means that the thread is kept on topic and interesting, and no fuel is given to particular fires, yes?

 BrookM wrote:
You can certainly get around with just the core manual as a means of starting out and exploring the game. The optional data card pack is handy as it includes the standard stratagem and specialist cards open to all factions, but it's not really needed as all of that is also found in the core manual.

As for the faction-specific cards.. The real downside of those is that the faction starters have some unique cards included that are not found elsewhere right now.

How much will we be missing out on?

Is there a list somewhere of all the faction specific stuff, and what it does?

IIRC three to four unique faction cards per starter. I cannot comment on how OP or game breaking these are, but according to the experts they are disgustingly good and horrible etc etc etc.

Though some events have taken the precaution to simply state that only the cards found in the core manual are used and none of the faction starter exclusives, though this varies from event to event.

I'm sure there's a list out there with the unique cards and what they do.

 BrookM wrote:
I'm sure there's a list out there with the unique cards and what they do.

Everything is available online at the usual places. 6-12 cards per box with the typical span of random power levels ranging from a +1 to a single dice roll all the way to "fight twice this turn" or "ignore an out of action result"

I lucked out and nabbed all the cards, missions, and markers from the Fangs of Ulrich box for about 10 bucks.

I did my part for my community by buying the Deathworld Killzone NIB.

Ive heard lots of complaints online, but I kinda like the "Overgrown Outpost" reverse side of the board, and I plan on painting up the terrain in a Nurgle Plague Garden theme. My LGS has plenty of usable terrain to add to the board. That "Remove a terrain" tactic though. Wow.

I have the Deathworld too and I like it. It's not like you can't add some ruins or hab-containers (Avatar!) to break LOS if that's an issue.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
So let me get this straight, when Kill Team was first announced people were cynically saying it wouldn't be supported despite claims to the contrary up front from GW, who said expansions would come for the game and there was years of ongoing support planned. These people remained cynical and said they'd believe it when they see it and that this was another one and done game to cash in on new terrain and nothing more.

Now that GW has started to follow through on their promise of expansions and forecast more to come, suddenly ongoing support is a bad thing and GW should have just made a complete one and done game and left it at that.

I feel like this is aimed at me?

I fully support Rogue Trader as an expansion that adds 2 new factions and a new environment. I am against "Commanders" in its rumoured form as a DLC that feels to me like it should have been in the base game. If, say, the rules for Fast Attack were cut from 40k and then sold as a separate book, that's not an expansion to me. It's cutting out part of the full game so you can charge me more for the complete experience.

It’s not actually the same. The way dlc and expansions for a video game work and the way an expansion of a war game works are different on a psychological level. Dlc for a video game usually runs on the idea of content and a complete story OR offering a competetive edge in multiplayer. The first is attempting to coerce people into buying to alleviate the feeling that the game they played is not finished or complete, and companies 100 percent leverage this in marketing and often within the games itself. I find this sort of psychological manipulation quite persuasive, and I am hardly alone in that, but not everyone is the same. Pay to win is pay to win and honestly doesn’t require explanation. People like winning, let them spend money to win harder faster or easier. WoT runs off this.

War game additions however have the consequence of coming with more rules and more things to memorize. Consequently it is harder to successfully market and it is harder to make a game system that can function with the intention of marketing expansions to it. If you strip the rules down too much, the players cease playing. AoS is a good example of that. The player base mostly rioted until they expanded the rule system. But remember how many times 40k has added new expansions? How often did people play planetfall or cities of death? GW has since just tossed those rules into the brb

That isn’t to say that you can’t manipulate a game system with the idea of expanding it. See necromunda, but it is significantly harder. GW has firmly moved toward iterating its core systems, and kill team isn’t likely to deviate from the mold of 40k or AoS in this regard

We don't even know what Commanders will contain and people are already complaining about it?

It could be as small as a book, it could be as grand as a whole new box set that introduces a new killzone, new terrain, new models, and rules for every faction to get Commanders, along with things that we don't even know about.

And, it adds things that people want: More options for models into the game. Where is the downside?

I can understand GW not wanting to add them into the core game because they are going to bring a bunch of new rules and upgrades that might have felt overwhelming in the core game. Looking at the Commander rules for Elucia Vhane and Vulgrar has already made my head spin with possibilities, and the idea that one model alone can be over 100 points with all of these upgrades means there's a lot more depth to list-building than I originally thought.

I'll ditto the sentiment to ignore the complainers. I'm excited for more Kill Team! My local GW has kicked off their campaign and my Carcharodons Astra are already 2-0!

Now that I have a copy of Rogue Trader, my opinion is that it is a game expansion that not everyone needs despite new play options. I bought it because the Starstriders are cool-looking figures, and even the Gellerpox are well sculpted even if they are disgusting as all of Nurgle's minions. One does get the new terrain rules for ultra-close spaces, the Commander rules (Commanders will be expensive ... you buy them at Level 1-4, and THEN buy their Commander abilities on top of that), and Door rules (they can be locked and unlocked). There are also new missions, matched and otherwise, for each side of the map board. For 40k, there are two small Codices for the Starstriders and Gellerpox. As I am not playing the current 40k edition I have no idea how they stack up against similar forces. Elucia Vhane's "Warrant of Trade" rule lets the Starstriders use any vehicle with the Imperium Transport keywords, even if that vehicle is normally faction restricted. That seems pretty nifty to me.

Since I bought Rogue Trader, my group now has access to the new rules, missions, and map, and that's all we need. At some point I'll run both factions as is, and I'd like to play the "historical" campaign. However, this is in no way a "must-buy" expansion: there is nothing game-breaking in it. (Like units with the Imperium keyword now having 1+ INV saves against all Wounds except Mortal Wounds, and 4+ against Mortal Wounds. )

I think it's a must buy if you love the minis. Hell, I don't even have the KT rulebook and I want a copy of the RT box.

Indeed. I own RT, but I don't have the KT rules. I might pick them up later, or I might use the models in Necromunda, or just paint them up just because.

As to "my opinion is that it is a game expansion", well it says exactly that on the front of the box!

That;s what I did- if someone wants the nurgle side for a decent price, PM me

(or wants to trade the rogue trader side for more nurgle!)

 Kanluwen wrote:
For anyone interested, "Voidsmen" are mentioned as commonly being seconded to Inquisitors.

Hope for multi-part Voidemen box rising, rising!

Ben2 wrote:


The relentless hate some Dakka posters have for new releases, new rules and new games is part of what makes news and rumour threads almost unreadable, because genuine news is swamped with the same half a dozen people who've been hating everything for the last five years posting about how it isn't the perfect product for them and they won't buy it and it is terrible and ruining everything.

Isn't this a tad bit unfair? The example given with the Ffast Attacks removed from the game and then re-introduced as an option is sound.
GW also added more faction-specific tactics in the KT boxes, a thing that I personally think is a "d" move.

Said this, the releases are interesting and the sculpts gorgeous. I think people are right when they say that the RT faction captures the feel of Blanche. The Gellar-dudes are a bit over-designed as all the recent Nurgle but are dark and interesting. And overall this Event Horizon scenario is very nice.

My only concern is that KT should be more a "your dudes" game and encourage customization. I want more from an expansion addition of options (not necessarily in an overwhelming or game breaking way) for some existing faction, and periodical update of point costs.
Or a more customizable, new faction.
After all, it does not mean we cannot have both over time. Let's wait and see, albeit GW designers often focus on their pets and sues and let alone the rest.

Fingers crossed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:
IIRC three to four unique faction cards per starter. I cannot comment on how OP or game breaking these are, but according to the experts they are disgustingly good and horrible etc etc etc.

Though some events have taken the precaution to simply state that only the cards found in the core manual are used and none of the faction starter exclusives, though this varies from event to event.

I'm sure there's a list out there with the unique cards and what they do.

I am ambivalent on those. A couple of the Ork ones in the box would be life savers, I would always allow Ork players have access to those.
Speaking of, as an example, I am actually more concerned with Tactics that were clearly not well though (or they were filler, because part of the "true" ones were moved to the burna box).
Like the Mek grenade tactic, that's failing at math. Hard.

You have a point. Allow me to rephrase, "my opinion is that it is a game expansion that not everyone needs despite new play options."

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Indeed. I own RT, but I don't have the KT rules. I might pick them up later, or I might use the models in Necromunda, or just paint them up just because.

As to "my opinion is that it is a game expansion", well it says exactly that on the front of the box!

Hope for multi-part Voidemen box rising, rising!

Yes, I share that hope. The Voidsmen are fine. Also rules for generic Rogue Traders KTs and an Inquisitor's Retinue would good too. As long as they do keep it "your dudes" with customization as Kaiyanwang has pointed out. For example, I'm enjoying customizing my Deathwatch KT and using canonical but rarely mentioned Chapters instead of the usual poster boys (with some exceptions ... I like the Salamanders, respect the Crimson Fists, and have a Blood Angel army). So my ranged attack Watch Sergeant is Sum Cogito from the Mentors Chapter (from the quote "Cogito, ergo sum") and my CC Watch Sergeant is Nigel Godfrey of the Hospitallars. On the game side, I've been tinkering with different loadouts, and trying to figure out with adding a Primaris or two is a good idea. Have also worked out a "Last Chancers" list for AM. It tries to be fluffy as best it can (Heavy Bolter = Hotshot Volley Gun etc). If I totally get curb-stomped I'll then optimize it using more Scions, but for now it is nearly all regular guard. On the other side of the slate, my Necrons are kind of dull as they have limited options.

It's pretty clear from using the special tactics that only come in the starter boxes that they give you an advantage. They give you more options, more ability to do the things you need to do to win, and sometimes your opponent wont have the same, either because their faction doesn't have a starter set or didn't buy the one for their faction.

That said, the starter sets are a really good deal. You get the markers, the minis, some terrain, as well as the tactics and extra missions. Anyone complaining about the price clearly hasn't invested in any GW product recently. Call it 'pay to win', I call it 'supporting a game I love'.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
These models are somehow even better looking in person (well, as models usually pretty much always do). Aximillion is glorious and Prond is beautifully creepy. Love them all really, not to mention how amazingly 3D the Nurgle half is with insanely deep detail and some great poses.

Some of the best models they’ve produced so far imo.

I second this opinion. I had a pretty good hate on for GW in the past, too, and I have to say that they have hit home runs on most of these new releases, and Kill Team is a genuine great job. Absolutely great when they start adding in Inquisition faction teams, and carry the load forward.

I picked the Rogue Trader up today. I’m torn in that there is
Way less plastic in the box than the starter set, but there is the two codexs and the extra rules. It’s probably not as good a deal, but starter boxes usually are loss leaders so I guess it’s to be expected. I still think it’s a good box. Great models, great rules.
I really hope commanders is a box set with a bunch of leader models like plastic lictors, elder exarchs, you name it. I really hope it’s not just a book. That doesn’t seem like GW style these days.

Kendo wrote:
I picked the Rogue Trader up today. I’m torn in that there is
Way less plastic in the box than the starter set, but there is the two codexs and the extra rules. It’s probably not as good a deal, but starter boxes usually are loss leaders so I guess it’s to be expected.

It's not a starter box!