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Kendo wrote: When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?
Having looked at the original concept art from John Blanche each of the big hulks had a specific theme to them, the sea and the butcher for example. They were done as concept art for rogue trader game, with the crew as well, back in 2014 and the minis sculpted in 2016. It gives you an idea of how long this stuff takes to come to fruition.
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Kendo wrote: When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?
Imperial ships are the size of cities. They'd need a huge reservoir of water to supply the tens of thousands of crewmen and other inhabitants. Why not fill it with fish and algae and other edible foodstuffs? They're self sustaining as long as they aren't overfarmed. After 10,000 years+ of they could easily have evolved new species too.
I've got no evidence of this but it's a cool idea.
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Kendo wrote: When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?
Imperial ships are the size of cities. They'd need a huge reservoir of water to supply the tens of thousands of crewmen and other inhabitants. Why not fill it with fish and algae and other edible foodstuffs? They're self sustaining as long as they aren't overfarmed. After 10,000 years+ of they could easily have evolved new species too.
I've got no evidence of this but it's a cool idea.
Slight problem with growing anything in water in microgravity, be it hydroponic plants, or fish, is the fact toxins and pollutants stay where they are. They barely disperse, and don't fall to the bottom, like they would on planet. Which means your fishes/plants constantly poison themselves with waste matter, bottom feeders have nothing to eat, and any nutrients you add to the system stay at the surface.
Even if you manage to fix that particular issue, say with gravity generator, you have another problem - each time your ship accelerates every single thing in your water tank collects at the wall closest to the engines. Fish, plants, waste matter, whatever you had at the bottom. Land creatures can brace themselves with friction against floor. There is no friction in water. And that is ignoring slightly more pressing problem, namely the fact that unless you cover that tank, once you accelerate it will overspill at the above wall as water collects there too.
If you cover it? Great, you have a multi-ton mass that according to Newton's First Law, really doesn't want to stop and tries to pry apart all welds and seals with enormous force. Your tank held? Great, now pray you packed durable fishes, as that force, instead of outside, goes inside. Water is hardly compressible, which means it can't dissipate shocks like air and instead tries to pass them on to softer bags of flesh inside it. Imagine, if you will, a toothpaste tube stepped on by sumo wrestler
Well. If you had a fish-tank in Mass Effect, that at least tries to be pseudo-scientific, I dont doubt it could be something very common for 40k that doesn't even pretends to try it.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
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Irbis wrote: Slight problem with growing anything in water in microgravity, be it hydroponic plants, or fish, is the fact toxins and pollutants stay where they are. They barely disperse, and don't fall to the bottom, like they would on planet. Which means your fishes/plants constantly poison themselves with waste matter, bottom feeders have nothing to eat, and any nutrients you add to the system stay at the surface.
Even if you manage to fix that particular issue, say with gravity generator, you have another problem - each time your ship accelerates every single thing in your water tank collects at the wall closest to the engines. Fish, plants, waste matter, whatever you had at the bottom. Land creatures can brace themselves with friction against floor. There is no friction in water. And that is ignoring slightly more pressing problem, namely the fact that unless you cover that tank, once you accelerate it will overspill at the above wall as water collects there too.
If you cover it? Great, you have a multi-ton mass that according to Newton's First Law, really doesn't want to stop and tries to pry apart all welds and seals with enormous force. Your tank held? Great, now pray you packed durable fishes, as that force, instead of outside, goes inside. Water is hardly compressible, which means it can't dissipate shocks like air and instead tries to pass them on to softer bags of flesh inside it. Imagine, if you will, a toothpaste tube stepped on by sumo wrestler
It's an IP where people who have access to faster than light travel choose to run at each other with chainsaws. I think we can at least partially suspend realistic physics when talking about its background.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/24 02:00:35
Indeed. The setting is one where spaceships punch through reality to travel more or less, through hell to reach their destinations. The technology required to make wayer not do that is probably trivial in comparison, and is perhaos related to various force field technologies, as the Imperium seem to have a very good understanding of those.
Kendo wrote: When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?
Water is non-compressible, non-replacible substance for the crew. It would make sense if ships have enormous water tanks for everything from drinking and bathing to cooling and cleaning.
So maybe they do double duty and hydroponics pods and raise fish in them?
Slight problem with growing anything in water in microgravity, be it hydroponic plants, or fish, is the fact toxins and pollutants stay where they are. They barely disperse, and don't fall to the bottom, like they would on planet. Which means your fishes/plants constantly poison themselves with waste matter, bottom feeders have nothing to eat, and any nutrients you add to the system stay at the surface.
Even if you manage to fix that particular issue, say with gravity generator, you have another problem - each time your ship accelerates every single thing in your water tank collects at the wall closest to the engines. Fish, plants, waste matter, whatever you had at the bottom. Land creatures can brace themselves with friction against floor. There is no friction in water. And that is ignoring slightly more pressing problem, namely the fact that unless you cover that tank, once you accelerate it will overspill at the above wall as water collects there too.
If you cover it? Great, you have a multi-ton mass that according to Newton's First Law, really doesn't want to stop and tries to pry apart all welds and seals with enormous force. Your tank held? Great, now pray you packed durable fishes, as that force, instead of outside, goes inside. Water is hardly compressible, which means it can't dissipate shocks like air and instead tries to pass them on to softer bags of flesh inside it. Imagine, if you will, a toothpaste tube stepped on by sumo wrestler
Great stuff but ships in 40k and sci fi in general have always had artificial gravity and intertinal dampeners. Realistic or not, they perform more like naval ships than any sort of space ship.
A decent argument for the Expanse RPG, but not so much here...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/24 02:41:02
Now that this idea has been suggested, I rather like it. So even if RW physics does not support it, I say we go with "rule of cool". Besides, as also pointed out, look at all the freaking inconsistencies and nonsense that 40k CANONICALLY incorporates into its setting.
Kendo wrote: When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?
Makes sense to me. With a big pond, you have multiple sources of food that can be grown in the dark with just organic detritus plus the obvious benefit of a source of water including bottom feeders that live in a completely dark environment similar to the bottom of deep lakes and the oceans. Upper decks might get the water filtered and have access to off-ship foodstuffs but the lower deck menials would probably use that pond for everything.
I will have packs of each coming in a few weeks thanks to the loot sharing group. I saw someone mention that they only contained data cards for the models in the box rather than full unqiue rules so not sure how they are handling the models that don’t fit the new equipment rules.
They only made 50 boxes of each for the event so they sold out exteremely quickly and were not taking orders for more but waived that for the loot group order as customer service had incorrectly promised that orders would be allowed.
You should read the Rogue Trader book. The fluff on the Rejuvanent (Medic specialist) strongly implies that she sabotage the Gellerfield device.
I personally don't think she did- although it is suggested as you say.
Spoiler:
The storyline seems to indicate that others did the real damage. If she had done what the voices said there might have been a total loss of all hands.
At the very least she has a warp-susceptible psyche and needs a Inquisitor or someone else to grant the Emperor's Mercy
Hmm its definitely suggested - I did like the fact that she also had visions of Isha as a captive - so that story is still going.
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Kendo wrote: When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?
Imperial ships are the size of cities. They'd need a huge reservoir of water to supply the tens of thousands of crewmen and other inhabitants. Why not fill it with fish and algae and other edible foodstuffs? They're self sustaining as long as they aren't overfarmed. After 10,000 years+ of they could easily have evolved new species too.
I've got no evidence of this but it's a cool idea.
Slight problem with growing anything in water in microgravity, be it hydroponic plants, or fish, is the fact toxins and pollutants stay where they are. They barely disperse, and don't fall to the bottom, like they would on planet. Which means your fishes/plants constantly poison themselves with waste matter, bottom feeders have nothing to eat, and any nutrients you add to the system stay at the surface.
Even if you manage to fix that particular issue, say with gravity generator, you have another problem - each time your ship accelerates every single thing in your water tank collects at the wall closest to the engines. Fish, plants, waste matter, whatever you had at the bottom. Land creatures can brace themselves with friction against floor. There is no friction in water. And that is ignoring slightly more pressing problem, namely the fact that unless you cover that tank, once you accelerate it will overspill at the above wall as water collects there too.
If you cover it? Great, you have a multi-ton mass that according to Newton's First Law, really doesn't want to stop and tries to pry apart all welds and seals with enormous force. Your tank held? Great, now pray you packed durable fishes, as that force, instead of outside, goes inside. Water is hardly compressible, which means it can't dissipate shocks like air and instead tries to pass them on to softer bags of flesh inside it. Imagine, if you will, a toothpaste tube stepped on by sumo wrestler
Some really obvious problems with this.
Microgravity is irrelevant because we know that imperial ships have artifical gravity.
You suggest that the forces imparted by acceleration can be resisted via friction with the floor - that is not a usual amount of acceleration for a ship design to travel between systems.
Since we never hear of anything other than very mild effects related to acceleration affecting the crew it seems clear that the artificial gravity technology in use by the imperium also shields them from the inertial effects of acceleration.
Finally, large bodies of water in ships are referred to in several novels.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/24 08:06:09
abyrn wrote: Are there any rumors as to why Harlequins got skipped in the starter set release?
Not everyone has been done yet!
I know but so far they have released the starter sets on the same schedule as the reveal order (seen here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/06/kill-team-faction-focus-index/), and in fact, they are still following that order except they skipped harlies. It might just be a coincidence but it's disappointing.
abyrn wrote: Are there any rumors as to why Harlequins got skipped in the starter set release?
Sadly no. If I had to hazard a guess, it's because they'll be reboxing Harlequins into 10 model sets and finally releasing a Start Collecting for them to boot. It might also be an issue of terrain or them not wanting to throw another Aeldari faction into the mix so quickly after Drukhari(and yes, I'm aware they've released a large amount of Imperium ones--but this bit has only Imperium terrain, which let's be honest is still better than a Marine faction ).
I'd also suggest it is possible they're planning on releasing Harlequins as part of a static Kill Team like the Rogue Trader set had.
Now I'm wondering what the remaining kill zones will be. Perhaps one will be the new scatter terrain in the style of the new buildings. They could certainly do another sector mechanicus one that focusses mainly on having lots of platforms. That would be pretty useful and a nice theme. Then what's left?
No, I got that. But the Rogue Trader set literally is our first look at Commanders. We have three trees in there.
If you got that then what's your point?
RT is models, boards and a short campaign.
Commanders is just rules.
How are they the same thing?
I might be mistaken(and I hope Clockpunk corrects me if I am), but I'm under the impression that they're referring to Rogue Trader as a "full product"(so to speak) rather than an expansion set to Kill Team like Commanders is supposed to be.
Rogue Trader might be models, boards and a short campaign...but it's also a truncated book. It's the main Commanders skill tree, the Strength and Strategist tables(Vhane and Vulgrar each get access to one), and a new warzone. All of that is stuff I won't be surprised to see in the Commanders book.
No, I got that. But the Rogue Trader set literally is our first look at Commanders. We have three trees in there.
If you got that then what's your point?
RT is models, boards and a short campaign.
Commanders is just rules.
How are they the same thing?
I might be mistaken(and I hope Clockpunk corrects me if I am), but I'm under the impression that they're referring to Rogue Trader as a "full product"(so to speak) rather than an expansion set to Kill Team like Commanders is supposed to be.
Rogue Trader might be models, boards and a short campaign...but it's also a truncated book. It's the main Commanders skill tree, the Strength and Strategist tables(Vhane and Vulgrar each get access to one), and a new warzone. All of that is stuff I won't be surprised to see in the Commanders book.
Apologies, I should have clarified in my first post, but that is indeed exactly what I meant, a stand-alone game with its own board, terrain, two pre-defined war bands, and a story arc that unites all those elements.
).
