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Its basically what GK get, except its free and has a chance of failing.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/14/14th-may-codex-harlequins-masque-formsgw-homepage-post-1/


It's up!

Midnight Sorrow is bonkers. Still reading -

Frozen Stars is decent.

Vieled Path is limited to Fight phase so I don't think it's top tier.

Soaring Spite assault pistols is pretty great for fusion pistols.

They all seem decent aside from the dreaming shadow which, as mentioned earlier, isn't that great.

Midnight sorrow looks really powerful.


Oh and Death Jesters now reduce leadership of their target, noice.

Seems their might be some hard choices with regard to which Masque to take.

Which is good.

I think Midnight Sorrow and Soaring Spite are the best all around. Soaring Spite synergizes with the gunboat build and addresses the limitations of pistol-spam.

Veiled path is just funny if nothing else.

Depending on if there will be any strategems to allow us to disembark after a vehicle has moved (I doubt it...but you never know) Soaring Spite might be super useful.

Silent Shroud is obviously one you build around but I can see it being quite useful. Maybe there might be a decent way of running harlequin leadership bomb armies.

Midnight Sorrow just seems, at face value, like it's the best possible choice.

Midnight Sorrow seems potentially very strong for the 6" consolidate. I doubt the extra move when falling back will be a big deal, but 6" pseudo-Fly consolidation means that you're both very good at piling into new units but more importantly it means that you're very good at surrounding models to prevent fall back moves.

Veiled Path is really weak. More than half of the time your result is a 1 or 2, which means you won't even get any benefit vs WS3+. And when it does help you vs WS3+, it only negates 25% of hits. It is significantly worse than a 6+ FNP that functions only in the Fight phase.

Frozen Stars is fine. 25% more output from decent CC units. If CC Skyweavers are any good then this is great for them too.

Soaring Spite seems potentially solid. Starweavers auto-advance 6" so this takes their passengers' fusion pistol move-and-shoot range from 22" to 28", which is enough to start doing things on turn 1. It depends how reliably you can get away with deploying this aggressively -- it's not a good trait against a GEQ screen. Skyweavers don't get a whole lot out of it unless Haywire Cannons or Star Bolas become Assault.

Dreaming Shadow still seems bad for reasons discussed earlier.

Silent Shroud is I think the most powerful Ld-affecting trait we've seen so far -- presumably GW is noticing that people don't use them. It's the Night Lords' trait with no cap and where the first unit within 6" effectively counts as 2 (the effect on morale tests is similar to adding another -1). This is probably still not good enough. It adds some bite to the usual wipe-and-consolidate plan since the unit you piled into is going to be testing at a significant penalty, but there's still a lack of payoffs for this sort of effect, unless Death Jesters are significantly improved (e.g., this would be worth reconsidering if they force a morale test immediately upon inflicting a casualty, since you double the number of tests units are taking).

Dionysodorus wrote:

Tricktock wrote:
GUYS

You are jumping to conclusions about Masque forms wayyyy too soon. Wait until we see the ENTIRE codex. There are so many strategems, psychic powers, relics, unit load outs that can make Dreaming Shadow viable. Relax.

Has there been a single example in 8th of a trait which seemed bad from the previews turning out to be good with the rest of the codex? I mean, the rest of the traits could be worse or this Masque could have a great stratagem tied to it that balances out the bad trait, but I'm not sure that "wait and see how it interacts with other changes" has ever turned out to be the right reaction to a rule's power level in hindsight.

Naah some people just think there's some magic button unrevealed because it's gw who can do no wrong

tneva82 wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

Tricktock wrote:
GUYS

You are jumping to conclusions about Masque forms wayyyy too soon. Wait until we see the ENTIRE codex. There are so many strategems, psychic powers, relics, unit load outs that can make Dreaming Shadow viable. Relax.

Has there been a single example in 8th of a trait which seemed bad from the previews turning out to be good with the rest of the codex? I mean, the rest of the traits could be worse or this Masque could have a great stratagem tied to it that balances out the bad trait, but I'm not sure that "wait and see how it interacts with other changes" has ever turned out to be the right reaction to a rule's power level in hindsight.

Naah some people just think there's some magic button unrevealed because it's gw who can do no wrong

I can think of not a single instance where the tactic did not define the army, or one where one was initially viewed as bad was made better by stratagems. Try as you will, the static effect is typically more important than the once or twice per game ability.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

Tricktock wrote:
GUYS

You are jumping to conclusions about Masque forms wayyyy too soon. Wait until we see the ENTIRE codex. There are so many strategems, psychic powers, relics, unit load outs that can make Dreaming Shadow viable. Relax.

Has there been a single example in 8th of a trait which seemed bad from the previews turning out to be good with the rest of the codex? I mean, the rest of the traits could be worse or this Masque could have a great stratagem tied to it that balances out the bad trait, but I'm not sure that "wait and see how it interacts with other changes" has ever turned out to be the right reaction to a rule's power level in hindsight.

Naah some people just think there's some magic button unrevealed because it's gw who can do no wrong

I can think of not a single instance where the tactic did not define the army, or one where one was initially viewed as bad was made better by stratagems. Try as you will, the static effect is typically more important than the once or twice per game ability.

uhhhh black heart, Mars, Ultramarines? You know, 90% of the Kabal, marine and admech lists people are using?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

Tricktock wrote:
GUYS

You are jumping to conclusions about Masque forms wayyyy too soon. Wait until we see the ENTIRE codex. There are so many strategems, psychic powers, relics, unit load outs that can make Dreaming Shadow viable. Relax.

Has there been a single example in 8th of a trait which seemed bad from the previews turning out to be good with the rest of the codex? I mean, the rest of the traits could be worse or this Masque could have a great stratagem tied to it that balances out the bad trait, but I'm not sure that "wait and see how it interacts with other changes" has ever turned out to be the right reaction to a rule's power level in hindsight.

Naah some people just think there's some magic button unrevealed because it's gw who can do no wrong

I can think of not a single instance where the tactic did not define the army, or one where one was initially viewed as bad was made better by stratagems. Try as you will, the static effect is typically more important than the once or twice per game ability.

uhhhh black heart, Mars, Ultramarines? You know, 90% of the Kabal, marine and admech lists people are using?

I definitely wouldn't list Ultramarines there, but I'm happy to concede the Black Heart one, that's entirely fair.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

Tricktock wrote:
GUYS

You are jumping to conclusions about Masque forms wayyyy too soon. Wait until we see the ENTIRE codex. There are so many strategems, psychic powers, relics, unit load outs that can make Dreaming Shadow viable. Relax.

Has there been a single example in 8th of a trait which seemed bad from the previews turning out to be good with the rest of the codex? I mean, the rest of the traits could be worse or this Masque could have a great stratagem tied to it that balances out the bad trait, but I'm not sure that "wait and see how it interacts with other changes" has ever turned out to be the right reaction to a rule's power level in hindsight.

Naah some people just think there's some magic button unrevealed because it's gw who can do no wrong

I can think of not a single instance where the tactic did not define the army, or one where one was initially viewed as bad was made better by stratagems. Try as you will, the static effect is typically more important than the once or twice per game ability.

uhhhh black heart, Mars, Ultramarines? You know, 90% of the Kabal, marine and admech lists people are using?

I definitely wouldn't list Ultramarines there, but I'm happy to concede the Black Heart one, that's entirely fair.

You disagree that Ultramarines is the most commonly seen Marine chapter, purely because of access to Guilliman even though the trait is objectively worse than Raven Guard (and probably also Salamanders)? Ditto for Mars and Cawl?

I disagree with Ultramarines because they only point I made was specifically related to an army being defined by it's static abilities (chapter tactics) and not it's stratagems (of which I conceded to black heart, which is defined by it's stratagem).

Your point of Cawl/Guilliman is a valid point, and I agree with you, it's simply a different point than I was making.

Going to be cynical but I think they are all pretty weak to be honest. More akin to say Tau than Dark Eldar.

I'd probably go Soaring Spite - but I am not totally convinced. Certainly you are not going to be getting an alpha strike on something critical with a 28" effective range unless your opponent is not paying attention.

Veiled Path is just mathematically bad and I don't see how they have come up with it.

I personally like them all.
Veiled Path could be useful against WS 2+ units or even just using a re-roll on it to really mess up your opponent.
Frozen Stars is scary.
Midnight sorrow useful to prevent Falling Back.
Silent Shroud looks cool, but if you read it carefully it's not -1 PER UNIT but -1 as long as the is >= 1 unit(s) within 6".
Dreaming Shadow I like. Get killed by Centurions (or something) in Fight Phase, then shoot your Fusion Pistols back at them...
Soaring Spite reasonably useful, though to properly utilise it you need a lot of transports and guys with Fusion Pistols (in my opinion).

I'll have to see the new Stratagems, Psychic Powers and rules to be sure, but I'd probably choose the most boring one (Frozen Stars).

The only benefit I see for the Veiled Path is that it can potentially mess with things that are getting reroll 1s. But still pretty trash overall.

Frozen Stars and Soaring Spite are what you will see 90% of the time, mark my words (assuming the strats for the others aren't amazaballs)

-

Currently hoping for the psychic powers and stratagems to be better than this.

The Warlord Traits are what I'm most hopeful for, though.
Hopefully the Veiled Path one lets you choose the higher roll than the lower
I'll be interested to see the Silent Shroud one.
And who knows what bonkers ones the Midnight Sorrow or the Soaring Spite will get.

Sad to not see an auto-advance 6" one, but then again I'm sure that would be a bit good



Most people are underestimating Veiled Path, in my opinion. Against WS3+ guys, you have a 16/36 chance of having it help (without a command point). Sure, it's under a 50% chance, but it can be useful. And, being Harlequins (especially Veiled Path), I'll assume we have a way of getting Command Points back.

Unnamed Harlequin wrote:
Most people are underestimating Veiled Path, in my opinion. Against WS3+ guys, you have a 16/36 chance of having it help (without a command point). Sure, it's under a 50% chance, but it can be useful. And, being Harlequins (especially Veiled Path), I'll assume we have a way of getting Command Points back.

Its a 4/9 chance to take 25% less damage.
A flat 6+++ in close combat - i.e. a flat 16.6% less damage - would be considerably better and I don't think anyone would say that was good.

Tyel wrote:

Unnamed Harlequin wrote:
Most people are underestimating Veiled Path, in my opinion. Against WS3+ guys, you have a 16/36 chance of having it help (without a command point). Sure, it's under a 50% chance, but it can be useful. And, being Harlequins (especially Veiled Path), I'll assume we have a way of getting Command Points back.

Its a 4/9 chance to take 25% less damage.
A flat 6+++ in close combat - i.e. a flat 16.6% less damage - would be considerably better and I don't think anyone would say that was good.

I'm not saying it's good, just that people ae underestimating it. It's certainly better than nothing

Unnamed Harlequin wrote:

Tyel wrote:

Unnamed Harlequin wrote:
Most people are underestimating Veiled Path, in my opinion. Against WS3+ guys, you have a 16/36 chance of having it help (without a command point). Sure, it's under a 50% chance, but it can be useful. And, being Harlequins (especially Veiled Path), I'll assume we have a way of getting Command Points back.

Its a 4/9 chance to take 25% less damage.
A flat 6+++ in close combat - i.e. a flat 16.6% less damage - would be considerably better and I don't think anyone would say that was good.

I'm not saying it's good, just that people ae underestimating it. It's certainly better than nothing

The alternative isn't nothing though. The alternative is advancing on fallback and 6" consolidate.

It's more a matter of maths than of opinion, veiled path saves you 11.1% of the time. An extra 6+ save saves you 16.7% of the time.

One is clearly better and not limited to combat.

Yeah, Veiled Path seemed better before applying maths...I guess it just sounds cool.

(And yes this is on average and mathhammer and real games don't always follow maths...but it's the best way we have for predicting which is best)

Veiled Path would have been much better if it was "roll 2 dice, discard the lowest" instead of highest. A decent chance to remove exploding 6's abilites or at least mitigate the effect of buffed units that get the exploding 6's on a 5+ or even 4+ would be excellent. But it's the wrong way round so chances are you'll be ignoring 1's and 2's, as if that was useful.

Glad to see Silent Shroud, I'm hoping there'll be psychic powers, relics and maybe stratagems that synergise nicely with it. Defintiely going to start considering a Freakshow list now we've seen this.

Aren73 wrote:
It's more a matter of maths than of opinion, veiled path saves you 11.1% of the time. An extra 6+ save saves you 16.7% of the time.

One is clearly better and not limited to combat.

Yeah, Veiled Path seemed better before applying maths...I guess it just sounds cool.

(And yes this is on average and mathhammer and real games don't always follow maths...but it's the best way we have for predicting which is best)

The math is a little weirder than that since you roll once for the entire fight phase. On the flip side, since it benefits your whole army when it succeeds, its a pretty great choice for your CP reroll. That should bring it up to mitigating 25% of damage 74% of the time and you only have to spend the CP 22% of the time.

Some leaked strats and points values

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/8jf293/leaked_harlequin_stratagems_and_point_values/

Glad to see I am not the only one who thought dreaming shadow’s masque trait was the suck. And yes, the free Commisar rule is totally worthless. If your Harlequins are taking enough casualties for it to come into play, the squad was going to get wiped anyway. The only units I can really see getting a benefit from the second half of the rule are Skyweavers and Voidweavers, and even then it’s pretty bad since it only activates on a 4+.

Guess I missed the party with the masque traits.... and my entire army is painted in Soaring Spite colors, so I am pretty happy right now.

Well yes it's pretty prone to spikes in luck, you might well get an amazing roll that will then save a ton of wounds, then again it might not do anything.

Though it is a good candidate for a CP reroll.

But I'd rather have a 6+ save on top of regular save.

It's kind of like the difference between damage d3 and damage 2 weapons, I'd rather have the damage 2.

Lol, now I wonder how those pics got on reddit. A friend of mine has the dex and took those pics, posting them in a private chat!

Well, your friend might as well share the entire codex now