Codex Imperial Knights - A Legacy of Honor

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**bmsattler**

So just to poll people's experiences, what house works best for Armiger spam? If I wanted to do 10 Armigers and a Preceptor as pure knights, am I better off with the defense of Taranis, offense of say Krast, or something in between using a custom house? Those aren't my only options, just the ones that immediately jump to mind.

I'd like your thoughts!

**DarkHound**

Armigers really like the custom houses for a few reasons. The big melee buffs that don't apply to Titanic Feet do apply to sweep attacks, making them extremely efficient. Armigers generally aren't efficient for the House stratagems or relics, so you don't miss them.

For comparison, the best house is Krast which gives +22% to hit in the first round. The trait Noble Combatants alone is +17% at all times. Plus, the Preceptor steps on Krast's toes a bit; if you have one nearby, Krast's benefit is effectively halved while a custom house would gain +12%.

My top picks for a mostly warglaive horde are Noble Combatants, Glorified History, and Defiant Fury. Depending on your meta, you should consider Slayers of Beasts, Guardians of the Frontier, and Exacting Charge. Stormstriders can also be good if you're against a lot of shooting-castles and your crippled Armigers are having trouble making it to combat.

For a mostly shooting army, Frontline Fighters is a must (it's the single best house buff for shooting). Glorified History is a decent second pick, but you could split the difference and get a melee buff since you're within 12". Consequently, you'll want a mostly Moiraxes.

Defensively, Taranis is the essentially +2 wounds; it's better than Survivors of Strife, which is +1. But both are pretty small potatoes compared to the huge damage increases you could pick up instead. After all, they can't hurt you if they're dead.

**bmsattler**

I really appreciate the thoughtful answer there! I hadn't considered how the Preceptor rerolls might make Krast less attractive, but I agree whole-heartedly.

To refine the concept a little, I'm looking at taking mostly Moirax siege claw+Volkite with a couple Lightning Locks thrown in here or there. The Warglaives seem to be a little too swingy with their Thermal Spears that also can't shoot into combat.

I've also been eying House Mortan for it's +1 attack and heroic intervention. Unless and until we get some kind of consistent ObSec, that seems like another way to help hold objectives.

Overall though, Frontline Fighters + ? seems to be very attractive. I know I'm missing things though, which is why I enjoy these discussions.

**DarkHound**

The trick to Warglaives is you need to charge multiple units to stack Pack Tactics and Pack Hunters. You should get +2 attacks for 3 Warglaives most turns if you plan your movement right. The Thermal Spear is just a bonus, I don't really treat it like dedicated anti-tank. You'll either plan to kill tanks in close combat, or you'll bring additional shooting.

House Mortan is just +17% to hit in the first round, it doesn't add any ability to Heroically Intervene. As I said, Noble Combatants alone is the same buff, but applies all the time. Only Krast is stronger.

You'll have to fill out your list to figure out which other trait would be best. You'll definitely want to be careful and check the math on the Moirax loadouts. Each of their weapons is very specialized and you don't want to leave a big hole in your offense.

**Gesundheit**

Hey Guys,

I want to start Knights even when they are in a bad spot right now.
Just one things. I dont wanne use FW! I know the Knights are good and stuff but .... no.
My first List looks like this. I dont want to go on tournaments with them!

Spoiler:

The plan behind this list to hold the home objective with the scions. (or backfield if the opponent goes Full ham)The Crusader and Castellan run mid Board, the errant and the warglaives Push to the front.
I am Not shure about the artefact, houses and stuff.
Could you please help figure it out?

Thanks in advance

**Ideasweasel**

Bless you for taking up knights, and bless you for your name

Is the Castellan house Raven? I know there was some talk of mixing households to gain access to obsec on a couple of knights but I cannot confirm how effective it is.

I have always picked a household and stuck with it. Engine war Custom households can be quite fun too.

Personally if you are running a castellan raven for advance and shoot and the big bad, the order of companions stratagem to reroll anything that is a 1.

Someone did the maths and I think it increases castellan firepower by 55% or something like that.

I recently attended a tournament with knights and I found the castellan is a bit of a sink. He either wins or loses games for you so be careful. Cause if you go second and he gets sniped turn 1.....its rough.

**generalchaos34**

Are people not really doing helverins anymore? I have 4 so I want them to be good naturally. I kind of figured the flat 3 damage would help them wipe out things like Eradicators especially with the perceptor rerolls.

**IHateNids**

generalchaos34 wrote:
Are people not really doing helverins anymore? I have 4 so I want them to be good naturally. I kind of figured the flat 3 damage would help them wipe out things like Eradicators especially with the perceptor rerolls.

I very rarely run my knights but I have yet to write a list that doesnt have both of mine in it.

I'm leaning toward running the Hoard of Armigers approach to my knights lately, I just cant find a configuration im happy with.

**gmaleron**

Hey guys, im interested in perhaps starting a Knight Army to either run with or replace my Imperial Guard (due to finances). Was just curious what are the Crusade? Or is better to stick with the Paladin and Errant variants?

Also I keep seeing people bring up Moirax's, what is the best loadout that yall have found for them?

**IHateNids**

Mine are going to be Volkite & Claw

Crusaders are good, but personally I think theyre only good with Melta Cannon and no other kit.

WLTs and Relics are optional according to taste, but I think other chassis benefit form them more.

**U02dah4**

With the moirax its really opponent based or what you intend to use it for

Lightning locks generally outperform volkite vs infantry but the difference is marginal

Gravs will perform better vs gravis or vehicles

Either can be good on an objective holder

The claw is solid as a 1 of for a knight looking to get close that and grav outperforms warglaives vs big targets but underperformed vs infantry

They got nerfed in imperial armour so they are more an equal choice than a better one

The paladin and errant are both weak variants

Preceptor or canis rex is better than errant pick for anti vehicle
Warden is better than paladin pick for anti marine
Crusader thermal is the best backfield shooter but it costs more and is no more durable
(All three should really have the ironstorm missile launcher at 15pts its a steal)

**ZergSmasher**

gmaleron wrote:
Hey guys, im interested in perhaps starting a Knight Army to either run with or replace my Imperial Guard (due to finances). Was just curious what are the Crusade? Or is better to stick with the Paladin and Errant variants?

Also I keep seeing people bring up Moirax's, what is the best loadout that yall have found for them?

As I have repeatedly said on many different forums and discussions, the correct answer to which Knight configuration is best is always magnets.

**IHateNids**

U02dah4 wrote:
With the moirax its really opponent based or what you intend to use it for

Lightning locks generally outperform volkite vs infantry but the difference is marginal

Gravs will perform better vs gravis or vehicles

Either can be good on an objective holder

The claw is solid as a 1 of for a knight looking to get close that and grav outperforms warglaives vs big targets but underperformed vs infantry

They got nerfed in imperial armour so they are more an equal choice than a better one

The paladin and errant are both weak variants

Preceptor or canis rex is better than errant pick for anti vehicle
Warden is better than paladin pick for anti marine
Crusader thermal is the best backfield shooter but it costs more and is no more durable
(All three should really have the ironstorm missile launcher at 15pts its a steal)

Ironstorm yes, completely forgot about that thing.... my bad.

Would you think it was worth having 1 Moirax with Volkite/Claw and one with Twin Tesla? Or would it be better to run them both with Tesla/Claw and leave the long range marine killing to the Helverins??

**U02dah4**

Its an arbitrary choice based more on the rest of your army composition if your going twin tesla your moirax is intended to sit on an objective and provide firesupport

If you use a claw your intending to run at their lines and different houses lend themselves to different strategies.

I would often use tesla as an alternative to helverins rather than a supplement. With claw/grav being the alternative to the warglaive (although claw/tesla could also be good)

The alternative to consider if money is a consideration is that when you buy from FW you either go Volkite/Claw, twin tesla or by individual weapons. This often means you get left with a spair couple of volkites and its pretty easy to swap them onto a helvarin chasis (its not quite perfect but the dimensions are the same and noone is likely to complain) and while worse than tesla the difference is miniscule.

**IHateNids**

Ultimately I will end up running 2 of each type

My reasoning for the above question is that each can do something different - Warglaives good for really hard targets, Helverins good at Elite Unit clearing, and then Moirax can be modified for Chaff or extra hard stuff.

I'm actually thinking Tesla/Claw on them because the gun and flamer are both really good for clearing swathes of light targets

I have no interest in Grav, they have no real targets at my local that I wouldnt rather be pointing Helverins at, and as nice as Volkite is for killing marines you have pointed out it's not entirely necessary...

Yeah, I think Tesla/Claw is going to be my loudout, but again, I may magnetise and experiment

edited for spelling

**U02dah4**

Yes tesla claw should be good in theory but its not a combination I own

**Nightlord1987**

Been out of the hobby all of 9th.

Are the Rusty 17 still a thing? I have the models, but just as I was prepping for a Tourny last summer... well, everything got canceled.

I dont plan on playing Mechanicus. Are they still worth attaching to a Knight list for board control, or Knights of the Cog?

Or should I try and sell em? Never been painted or primed. I dont like storing unnecessary models. (Already have a whole Ork army shelved)

**bmsattler**

By themselves they will be of limited utility. With a few other AdMech units they are worth looking at. Examples include the Phophsor-hound and the Raiders. Thing is, once you start going down the AdMech rabbit hole you can find units that do just about anything the knights do better.

**U02dah4**

Mono Knights don't work

Guard or admech can make decent allies for Knights but there is no incentive to minimise a detachment

Adnech raiders are probably the best option maybe with a unitbif corpuscarii

**Ideasweasel**

Been playing knights solidly since the start of 8th edition. Shelved them reluctantly a couple of months back.

This is an edition built without them in mind. Until glaring issues are addressed mine are nothing more than beautiful paperweights.

I’ve moved onto my Admech and everything knights do Admech can do better.

**nevertellmetheodds**

I found one thing when starting knights, always magnetise. A loadout that's brings victory one edition, brings shame upon a knight in the next (plus the emperor/machine god may provide glorious new arm weapon options in future) Hopefully the next codex will bring GLORY to knights everywhere. It seems tough to win an not ally also when i have played, my guard serfs were needed to hold objectives. I pray that in the next codex, house serfs are permitted to follow knights into battle if only to polish their armour and fire of the occasional lasgun shot.

**IHateNids**

I can foresee there being some very basic house troopers added, kinda like the titan guard got added to the FW codex

**bmsattler**

FAQ to the Munitium Field Manual has reduced the points for Helvrens and Warglaives by 20 points each.

**IHateNids**

That is good news.

Maybe time to bust out the knights.

How are we doing on Secondaries these days? I can't imagine this objective-centric edition is being kind to something without ObSec in any form

I'm still hoping Armigers get ObSec in the new book, or that we get household troopers, but I think that's a pipedream.

**bmsattler**

AdMech cavalry and such helps a little, but not as much as I'd like. I've still got a few ideas rattling around with various combinations of Knights and other Imperium forces to shore up some of our weaknesses, but I'll admit I'm just being stubborn.

**IHateNids**

My main factor in this is arguing with myself to not buy 4 leman Russes for more Armour-And-Cannons with Ob Sec

Because my wallet cannot handle it

**nevertellmetheodds**

In the new FAQ they didn't add 2+D6 to the thermal cannon rules again... Maybe they are leaving it with the old melta rules for some reason?!

**Ice_can**

nevertellmetheodds wrote:
In the new FAQ they didn't add 2+D6 to the thermal cannon rules again... Maybe they are leaving it with the old melta rules for some reason?!

GW hasn't updated most of the weapons that don't cross over with marine's yet.

Though having 1 rule for melta guns and 1 rule for therma spears and therma cannons on the same models is not the best I'll agree.

**bmsattler**

I just wanted to double-check my understanding of a rules interaction. The warlord trait 'Cold Eradication' has you roll an extra dice and discard one dice each time you determine the number of attacks for a random weapon (eg Heavy D6).

The House Raven Stratagem 'Order of Companions' lets you reroll all 1s in the shooting phase.

If I use both at the same time I'd get to reroll any 1's that showed up on any of the dice to determine number of shots before having to choose which one I drop, right?

**IHateNids**

bmsattler wrote:
I just wanted to double-check my understanding of a rules interaction. The warlord trait 'Cold Eradication' has you roll an extra dice and discard one dice each time you determine the number of attacks for a random weapon (eg Heavy D6).

The House Raven Stratagem 'Order of Companions' lets you reroll all 1s in the shooting phase.

If I use both at the same time I'd get to reroll any 1's that showed up on any of the dice to determine number of shots before having to choose which one I drop, right?

You'd roll an extra dice to generate number of shots, in this case 2D6 drop one, and then you take that number, roll the hits, and reroll the 1s in that number of hits.

Does that make sense?

They trigger in sequence, CE then into OoC