Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

2pts for everyone not a chr or on a thunderwolf. Yeah, its quite awsome.

Or not on a thunderwolf? Hiw much is it for them?

 Niiai wrote:
Or not on a thunderwolf? Hiw much is it for them?

Still 10 points. Only because they're a SW only thing and SW codex was too new to be properly included in CA. SW changes are only for things that are shared with SM or equivalent to SM units. Since in the codex shields were 5-10-15 and now they are 2-10-10 it's just a matter of time: TWC storm shields will go down in points, probably 5 or 6 per model, at the next round of FAQs. But at the moment they still cost 10 points.

Yeah chapter approved didnt do much for thunderwolves. It did make wolfen better though. Why get a great axe when you can get a thunder hammer and storm shield for almost the same cost?

Azuza001 wrote:
Yeah chapter approved didnt do much for thunderwolves. It did make wolfen better though. Why get a great axe when you can get a thunder hammer and storm shield for almost the same cost?

Same reason for TWC storm shields, because the axe is a SW thing. It's going to be cheaper for sure.

WG termies also became a lot better since GW discounted all their basic price, storm shields and power fists. 5 dudes with all SS/PF are now just 170 points. With arjac and wulfen/wulfen stone character they get 21 attacks hitting on 3s, with probably some re-rolls in both to hit and to wound rolls. All models with 3++ and natural deepstrike. If you want arjac anyway, it sounds like a deal.

Yeah, i like my terms mixed, with mostly storm bolters and storm shields, with 1 assault cannon / ss and a chain fist ss on the srg. Makes it a good little drop in and unload unit that can handle itself in cc if need be.

 Blackie wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Yeah chapter approved didnt do much for thunderwolves. It did make wolfen better though. Why get a great axe when you can get a thunder hammer and storm shield for almost the same cost?

Same reason for TWC storm shields, because the axe is a SW thing. It's going to be cheaper for sure.

WG termies also became a lot better since GW discounted all their basic price, storm shields and power fists. 5 dudes with all SS/PF are now just 170 points. With arjac and wulfen/wulfen stone character they get 21 attacks hitting on 3s, with probably some re-rolls in both to hit and to wound rolls. All models with 3++ and natural deepstrike. If you want arjac anyway, it sounds like a deal.

With Hammers 5 Termies + Arjac is only 350 points... if you're going with Arjac you might as well go full hog on their equipment. Otherwise 170 for a 5-man PF squad sounds very nice.

edit: With all these meta changes remind me to magnetize my next squad though

 Niiai wrote:
Wait. So stormshields are 2 points? Is not that insane?

Only for squads, not characters (and it is not clear if that prices applies to TWC). The problem is that squads that can takes Storm Shields like Hammernators were almost never seeing play so GW decided to drop the price of the wargear rather than fix the individual squads.

This means some squads that are already competitive got an inadvertent discount on certain builds. Wulfen for example got better as a result. Wolf Guard in PA with Storm Shields also look good on certain builds.

dang, I popped in here hoping that someone had an FAQ from GW about that. As cut and dry as it may seem written, it's still pretty frequently asked about. Honestly the wording in the codex didn't translate well into CA.

I think Long Fangs with PCs accompanied by a battle leader in a drop pod are pretty good in the current meta. Re-roll 1s to hit and wound, ignore to hit penalties, protection from alpha strike and anti-deep strike fire, good range so nearly impossible to wrap against, not too expensive and coming with a decent counter charge possibility.
They will melt dark reapers easily and VS. Knights you could use the long fangs strategum

Ragnar69 wrote:
I think Long Fangs with PCs accompanied by a battle leader in a drop pod are pretty good in the current meta. Re-roll 1s to hit and wound, ignore to hit penalties, protection from alpha strike and anti-deep strike fire, good range so nearly impossible to wrap against, not too expensive and coming with a decent counter charge possibility.
They will melt dark reapers easily and VS. Knights you could use the long fangs strategum

It's a lot of points for a suicide unit by time you factor in the cost of the pod and the battle leader.

I prefer embarking them in one of the razorbacks instead of a pod. Some of my lists have the flyer to carry one troop, two razorbacks to carry two other troops and the third razorback to give long fangs some protection from alpha strike. The battle leader looks like a waste if brought just to buff them, use the stratagem that gives that re-roll to wound instead. Or just field a fast battle leader (TWC mount or jump packs) near their tank so they have his aura in turn 1.

My Long Fangs frequently get ignored as opponents target the various CC threats barreling towards their lines. Sometimes investing in defensive measures is worthwhile but sometimes it is better to go all-out aggressive. Make sure every point of your army can do a decent job of killing the enemy and overload him with threats. If my Long Fangs die I suspect it would mean the game was already lost or that my shorter ranged elements are about to make contact with the enemy and take their revenge.

I got the tooth and claw sett. Mostly for the GSC. B I have an old wolf army as well.

Now, what is up with primaris agressors? They and the primaris soldiers seems very odd. The dreadnought is good enough with S9 -4 D2.

 Karhedron wrote:
My Long Fangs frequently get ignored as opponents target the various CC threats barreling towards their lines. Sometimes investing in defensive measures is worthwhile but sometimes it is better to go all-out aggressive. Make sure every point of your army can do a decent job of killing the enemy and overload him with threats. If my Long Fangs die I suspect it would mean the game was already lost or that my shorter ranged elements are about to make contact with the enemy and take their revenge.

In my experience long fangs are the priority target for enemy deepstrikers, especially those ones that are kitted with anti infantries or anti elite ranged weapons. Usually the troops are embarked or don't worth the effort of being shot at, while all the other units are tanks, walkers, flyers, 3++ TWC or bikes which all compete to soak the anti tank.

30 shoota boyz will target long fangs first and try to charge some tanks for example. With drukhari I usually let one gunboat to target the enemy back line shooters like devastators/long fangs. A single ravager can delete the entire squad and that's just 1/4 of the ranged anti tank/anti elites available usually.

 Niiai wrote:
I got the tooth and claw sett. Mostly for the GSC. B I have an old wolf army as well.

Now, what is up with primaris agressors? They and the primaris soldiers seems very odd. The dreadnought is good enough with S9 -4 D2.

I use the Aggressors to outflank together with my Wulfen. Strangely all opponents so far have directed their anti-deepstrike shooting at the 111 points Agressorss instead of the twice as expensive Wulfen. People seem to be very afraid of them so they are a good distraction carnifex.

 Blackie wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
My Long Fangs frequently get ignored as opponents target the various CC threats barreling towards their lines. Sometimes investing in defensive measures is worthwhile but sometimes it is better to go all-out aggressive. Make sure every point of your army can do a decent job of killing the enemy and overload him with threats. If my Long Fangs die I suspect it would mean the game was already lost or that my shorter ranged elements are about to make contact with the enemy and take their revenge.

In my experience long fangs are the priority target for enemy deepstrikers, especially those ones that are kitted with anti infantries or anti elite ranged weapons. Usually the troops are embarked or don't worth the effort of being shot at, while all the other units are tanks, walkers, flyers, 3++ TWC or bikes which all compete to soak the anti tank.

30 shoota boyz will target long fangs first and try to charge some tanks for example. With drukhari I usually let one gunboat to target the enemy back line shooters like devastators/long fangs. A single ravager can delete the entire squad and that's just 1/4 of the ranged anti tank/anti elites available usually.

And thats why i always take a storm shield on the captain. I had a game where he tanked 7 plasma gun shots and 3 multimelta shots (playing vs death guard). My opponent got so pissed at them he dedicated waaaay WAAAAAY more firepower to killing them than should have been needed, buying the rest of my army almost an entire turn of not getting shot at.

Storm shield for 2pts to give them one 3++ save is totally worth it.

Yeah it's a nice upgrade, pretty useless against units that fire with anti infantries weapons and high rate of fire though. Like a unit of marines with SM and jump packs, they can evaporate the long fangs anyway.

I prefer giving them a tank since tanks aren't priority targets for the enemy anti tank. With three razorbacks and a flyer I can reserve the transport capacity of a tank just for long fangs.

Ragnar69 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I got the tooth and claw sett. Mostly for the GSC. B I have an old wolf army as well.

Now, what is up with primaris agressors? They and the primaris soldiers seems very odd. The dreadnought is good enough with S9 -4 D2.

I use the Aggressors to outflank together with my Wulfen. Strangely all opponents so far have directed their anti-deepstrike shooting at the 111 points Agressorss instead of the twice as expensive Wulfen. People seem to be very afraid of them so they are a good distraction carnifex.

Aggressors are far too expensive to be used as a distraction. I would lean towards the Wulfen Dread for that kinda duty.

What are agressoes goos for? They seem awfull. Purly abtibinfantery except in melee where they are anti tank? Very odd combination. Do we need more shirt ranged anti infantery?

Aggressors are anti infantry units that are tough to hurt and are deviatating vs swarms / small squads while also being nasty in cc.

I have no issues outflanking 3 of them with boltstorm gauntlets, you will be putting out on average 27 bolter shots for 111 pts. Outflanking on them makes a ton of sense, and have krom go with them and you will have a great and scary firebase your opponent cant ignore.

I need to try that sometime. 3 aggressors, 10 grey hunters decked out in plasma, and krom all outflanking in on a side. Thats enough of a "shock" force that it should send your opponent running.

Tough to hurt? What world do you live in that an Aggressor is tough to hurt? They're like the definition of a glass cannon.

They are tougher to hurt than most infantry, t5 and 2w with 3+ save is better than t4 1w 3+. Maybe i should have said tougher to kill than just tough to kill, its all about what is getting shot at by what. Aggressors wont survive any better vs a whirlwind than a heavy weapon team but they will take the hits from heavy bolters better.

Azuza001 wrote:
They are tougher to hurt than most infantry, t5 and 2w with 3+ save is better than t4 1w 3+. Maybe i should have said tougher to kill than just tough to kill, its all about what is getting shot at by what. Aggressors wont survive any better vs a whirlwind than a heavy weapon team but they will take the hits from heavy bolters better.

They're 37 points for T5 3+ W2.

They're NOT tough and I haven't a slightest clue where you get your math from for them to be tough.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
They are tougher to hurt than most infantry, t5 and 2w with 3+ save is better than t4 1w 3+. Maybe i should have said tougher to kill than just tough to kill, its all about what is getting shot at by what. Aggressors wont survive any better vs a whirlwind than a heavy weapon team but they will take the hits from heavy bolters better.

They're 37 points for T5 3+ W2.

They're NOT tough and I haven't a slightest clue where you get your math from for them to be tough.

Dude why is it in every thread you come across so willfuly arrogant? You dont have any idea where my math came from? T5 > T4 so T5 is tougher than T4. Its that simple. Can they take a las cannon to the chest no problem? No. But they are still tougher to wound vs said las cannon than an intercessor or grey hunter.

Yes they are expensive for a few models, and yes they die to concentrated fire, so do most things not a knight and even then a knight can be killed in 1 turn to the right setup of cultists.

If you dont agree with me then fine, you can say that and do it in a way that isnt always so disrespectful and combative. Say why you dont agree, give your own examples, and let others make up their minds based off of both sides of the discussion. You dont have to attack the person who has a different opinion than you all the time.

Azuza001 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
They are tougher to hurt than most infantry, t5 and 2w with 3+ save is better than t4 1w 3+. Maybe i should have said tougher to kill than just tough to kill, its all about what is getting shot at by what. Aggressors wont survive any better vs a whirlwind than a heavy weapon team but they will take the hits from heavy bolters better.

They're 37 points for T5 3+ W2.

They're NOT tough and I haven't a slightest clue where you get your math from for them to be tough.

Dude why is it in every thread you come across so willfuly arrogant? You dont have any idea where my math came from? T5 > T4 so T5 is tougher than T4. Its that simple. Can they take a las cannon to the chest no problem? No. But they are still tougher to wound vs said las cannon than an intercessor or grey hunter.

Yes they are expensive for a few models, and yes they die to concentrated fire, so do most things not a knight and even then a knight can be killed in 1 turn to the right setup of cultists.

If you dont agree with me then fine, you can say that and do it in a way that isnt always so disrespectful and combative. Say why you dont agree, give your own examples, and let others make up their minds based off of both sides of the discussion. You dont have to attack the person who has a different opinion than you all the time.

Then please show the math they're tough compared to other units in the codex. I await your results.

I gave a few examples. T5 vs t4. T5 vs heavy bolter gets wounded on a 4. T4 gets wounded on a 3. Therefore its easier to wound the t4 unit and tougher to wound the t5 unit.

T5 vs t4 when getting hit by t4 bolter weapons. T4 wounded on a 4, t5 wounded on a 5. T5 will last longer.

T5 vs t4 when getting hit by overcharged plasma. T5 needs 3 to wounds, t4 needs 2's.


These are all common things that people see in the game and shouldn't have to be explained. T5 is tougher to wound than t4 against a lot of things seen in the game. Against other weapon strengths it doesnt matter, str 3, str 6, and str 7 dont care. Str 4, 5, 8, and 9 the t5 is better.

And once again my point is you dont want to show why you think your right, you prefer to just tell others they are wrong. Asking me to provide more proof without giving any of your own is the point.

We are 24 pages in. I am sure some one did the math on primarises at one point. I am not saying that you need to do it, but I am sure some one has done them at some point.

What we need to know is how much more it will survive based upon the popints we pay for the model. If it is harder to kill then 2 grey hunters (or 2 blood claws) it would need to ve divided by the point cost of the wounds. A wound to point comparison.

How ever, the "primaris problem" in 8th edition is 2 wound weapons. Instead they should have 1 wound, like grey hunters where the second wound is wasted. You also mentioned the lascannon. Lascannons are better vs 2 wound models then 1 wound grey hunters. Even if you wound GH on 2+ and primaries on 3+.

If you are lucky your codex have 3 wound models like the tyranid warrior where plasma weapons are bad. (The infamus leviathan tyranid warrior even has 6+++ for a chance to mess up 3 damage weapons.)

While that is primaries in general, I am having a very hard way to see what the primaries agressors are gonne be used for. It is anti infantery, and then anti tank in melee?

I will say this though: The SM codex is better for primaries then regular codexes thanks to the outflank stratgem. It fixes the transport problem.

Azuza001 wrote:
I gave a few examples. T5 vs t4. T5 vs heavy bolter gets wounded on a 4. T4 gets wounded on a 3. Therefore its easier to wound the t4 unit and tougher to wound the t5 unit.

T5 vs t4 when getting hit by t4 bolter weapons. T4 wounded on a 4, t5 wounded on a 5. T5 will last longer.

T5 vs t4 when getting hit by overcharged plasma. T5 needs 3 to wounds, t4 needs 2's.


These are all common things that people see in the game and shouldn't have to be explained. T5 is tougher to wound than t4 against a lot of things seen in the game. Against other weapon strengths it doesnt matter, str 3, str 6, and str 7 dont care. Str 4, 5, 8, and 9 the t5 is better.

And once again my point is you dont want to show why you think your right, you prefer to just tell others they are wrong. Asking me to provide more proof without giving any of your own is the point.

That's why I asked for the actual math behind it.

One Aggressor is the same price as 3 Grey Hunters for all intents and purposes. 3 individual T4 3+ wounds is more durable than 2 T5 3+ wounds, especially when those wounds are confined onto a single model (making multiple damage weapons significantly more efficient). You can also look at Intercessors as an even more extreme example, where two separate models with T4 W2 3+ is essentially double the durability of one model with T5 W2 3+.
This operates on the principle of how usually more wounds is going to serve you better.

I'm not saying Aggressors are not offensively capable. I'm saying to call them a distraction carnifex with their durability is, like, completely wrong.

And what i am saying is if that's what you mean you should say that. When you just say "your wrong, prove me wrong " it comes out offensive and not helpful for anyone reading the topic.

From actual gameplay I have found aggressors to be quite durable for space wolves. When the team outflanks it comes in with a garunteed 1 turn of full fire capability. I have seen 3 teams of 3 man aggressors win games coming in t3 and just wiping the floor with whats left on the field, leaving what's left with a hard pressed case of how to deal with them. Outflanking makes sure that they will get 1 turn of shooting unmolested. When they come in they will crush whatever infantry they are near thanks to pure weight of fire.

I am not saying they can just walk up the field and be a viable threat. They really need to outflank. But once they do, and once they kill whatever infantry was within 18" when they did come in they do at that point become a serious issue that light infantry should then have a problem with. Meta wise anything someone would devote to them at this point is something that probably would have been better fighting something else. And if they do get blown away what it takes is pretty silly. You either devote enough firepower to garuntee the unit is dead the waisting shots or you dont and risk someone surviving. Either way its a win for you if you start dictating what your opponent has to do in their turn.

Again maybe tough to kill was a bad choice of words, i admit that. But tougher to kill than alternative options i stand by. If you outflank in and dont shoot at the squad with plasma guns near you then you deserve to lose the unit. But honestly when you come in your main goal should be to wipe out anything in range that would be a serious threat to the aggressors. If you cant pull that off dont drop them in at that location.