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 lare2 wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
Only those 2. There is also a Vigilus book with some rules, but they are cheap so no need to get it. SM codex is useless for us.

If you want Forgeworld units you need that Index as well, but I would wait for 9th edition version before comitting there

Thanks. Will stop pestering for now. You've all been really helpful. That's good to know about the SM book.

I've got the Vigilus books so will doublecheck them. Was only focusing on the fluff and chaos stuff when I got them.

As I general rule I avoid FW - I'm a slow painter and there's enough at GW to keep me entertained.

the vigulius book ios basicly only if you wanna run blood claw and reiver heavy. it might see a new lease on life if they FAQ it to allow assault intercessors though

After a quick look at the rules, having to make a successful charge against all units you declare or else you fail all stinks. on the other hand Overwatch being limited to a stratagem is a plus for us.

There maybe a change coming to the SS that could effect our Wulfen and TWC, Unless this is a different Storm Shields with the same name.

If all SS change I hope we'll see a discount on TWC but most likely not.

The new bikes will be good for SW, no?

 Niiai wrote:
The new bikes will be good for SW, no?

Yes, unlike our swiftclaws, the new bikes will have BS 3, they can also take advantage of 2/3 combat doctrine. I think it comes down to their cost.

 Niiai wrote:
The new bikes will be good for SW, no?

Yeah, Devastating Charge for +2 attacks which synergizes perfectly with our special doctrine and hot off the press we can have a Primaris Biker Chaplain riding along with them! (I'm going to assume the SW version will simply be a Primaris Biker Wolf Priest).

Man, Assault Intercessor squads are dead on arrival imo. They lack speed, special weapons, abilities like devastating charge. They can't disembark and charge out of a moving vehicle, and cannot use drop pods.

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Man, Assault Intercessor squads are dead on arrival imo. They lack speed, special weapons, abilities like devastating charge. They can't disembark and charge out of a moving vehicle, and cannot use drop pods.

Can you promote them to veteran Intercessors? If yes throwing 5 of them and a captain or lieutenant in an Impulsor with Shield Dome might be a nice little package. Not worth focusing everything on but too big to ignore. Might divert some shots from a Repulsor Executioner or something and if it doesn't it'll likely sneak through and your Assault Intercessors can disembark and wreak havoc T2.

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Man, Assault Intercessor squads are dead on arrival imo. They lack speed, special weapons, abilities like devastating charge. They can't disembark and charge out of a moving vehicle, and cannot use drop pods.

I’m assuming you say this because they can’t first turn charge? Why would they need to? I’ve been using intercessors with Assault bolters and a hammer in impulsors for a Little while now and have had massive success. Even did well in the two test games I just played woth the new core rules. The new terrain rules really kept my impulsors alive and well until my next command phase when the troops got out with ragnar and som support characters and crushed my opponents earning secondaries while the impulsors gathered objective points almost unscathed. If you plan accordingly alpha strikes are crap. Patience has definitely paid off more with my wolves then impetuosity. I don’t see 9th edition being point and click like 8th.

Edit: try the impulsors with assault grenade launchers. Move and advance them into positions and still fire. Then turn 2 disembark 3” then move etc.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Man, Assault Intercessor squads are dead on arrival imo. They lack speed, special weapons, abilities like devastating charge. They can't disembark and charge out of a moving vehicle, and cannot use drop pods.

I’m assuming you say this because they can’t first turn charge? Why would they need to? I’ve been using intercessors with Assault bolters and a hammer in impulsors for a Little while now and have had massive success. Even did well in the two test games I just played woth the new core rules. The new terrain rules really kept my impulsors alive and well until my next command phase when the troops got out with ragnar and som support characters and crushed my opponents earning secondaries while the impulsors gathered objective points almost unscathed. If you plan accordingly alpha strikes are crap. Patience has definitely paid off more with my wolves then impetuosity. I don’t see 9th edition being point and click like 8th.

Edit: try the impulsors with assault grenade launchers. Move and advance them into positions and still fire. Then turn 2 disembark 3” then move etc.

I think my point was missed a bit, I mentioned all the things they lack that out other units have for example: regular intercessors might have less attacks then the assault versions, but they have access to better guns, power weapons and work with the impulsor much better like you have stated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its a similar situation to grey hunters and blood claws, but GH can be armed to the teeth with weapons, and blood claws get bonuses for charging and are buffed by wulfen with extra attacks and re-roll charges at 12".

Has anyone compared Ragnar to other wolf Lord builds in terms of efficiency? I love Ragnar and I have him however when trying to build smaller list for ninth edition in anticipation of our models costing more points I began comparing other options.

Both characters for comparison will be supported by jump pack wolf priest with Wulfen Stone:
Wolf lord on thunder wolf- dual wolf claws , master crafted, saga of the wolf kin. 106pts ( as of now) That’s 8 attacks (11 with wolf) S5 Dmg 2 reroll 1s and reroll all failed wounds for free.

Ragnar- 11 attacks Buffed by Stone ,Reroll charges, attack first if warlord.

Both characters only wound bigger targets at 5+ , Ragnar will be better against elite infantry until the Lord reroll’s to wound. Ragnar can re-roll wounds for one CP with seeking a saga. The thunder wolf lord is T5 7w and Ragnar is only T4 6w. Both have a 4++. Wolf lord is faster but ragnar can go in impulsor. I guess choice between them will come down to terrain amount and games size/ opponent with the lord being 14 pts cheaper. Thoughts?

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Has anyone compared Ragnar to other wolf Lord builds in terms of efficiency? I love Ragnar and I have him however when trying to build smaller list for ninth edition in anticipation of our models costing more points I began comparing other options.

Both characters for comparison will be supported by jump pack wolf priest with Wulfen Stone:
Wolf lord on thunder wolf- dual wolf claws , master crafted, saga of the wolf kin. 106pts ( as of now) That’s 8 attacks (11 with wolf) S5 Dmg 2 reroll 1s and reroll all failed wounds for free.

Ragnar- 11 attacks Buffed by Stone ,Reroll charges, attack first if warlord.

Both characters only wound bigger targets at 5+ , Ragnar will be better against elite infantry until the Lord reroll’s to wound. Ragnar can re-roll wounds for one CP with seeking a saga. The thunder wolf lord is T5 7w and Ragnar is only T4 6w. Both have a 4++. Wolf lord is faster but ragnar can go in impulsor. I guess choice between them will come down to terrain amount and games size/ opponent with the lord being 14 pts cheaper. Thoughts?

imo, it comes down to speed and whats in your army. If you are taking Impulsors then go with ragnar, any other situation smash captain or twc captain would get into combat more reliably.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SW around the 37min mark.
frost ax/sword cost as much as a PF PF only went up 1pt. TH down 1pt.

Looks like wolf guard terminators are the big winners, which only go up by 4 points when loaded with combi plasma and storm shield. Also, the old rules for plasma and shields weren’t changed by the FAQ, so we can field unblowupable plasma termi bombs for a little while longer at least.

Swiftclaws also made out well, though their chainswords are still the old AP 0 ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OTOH, Wulfen with hammer and shield are +8 points, or +6 points with great axes.

My biggest complaint is that TWC went up 5 points, their SS went up 3 points, and frost swords went up 5 points too (might as well switch to PF).
the price hike wont stop me from taking them but it hurts all the same.

Jimbobbyish wrote:
My biggest complaint is that TWC went up 5 points, their SS went up 3 points, and frost swords went up 5 points too (might as well switch to PF).
the price hike wont stop me from taking them but it hurts all the same.

Will they get updated with the new stormshield? As in T5, 2+ and 4++?

Thunderwolves with SS and TH went up 7pts from 61 to 68pts didn't they? That's a shade over +10%, that's a pretty kind increase.

 Niiai wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
My biggest complaint is that TWC went up 5 points, their SS went up 3 points, and frost swords went up 5 points too (might as well switch to PF).
the price hike wont stop me from taking them but it hurts all the same.

Will they get updated with the new stormshield? As in T5, 2+ and 4++?

We don't know. So far only the new Bladeguard have that rule. I guess they will not change it before the next codex ( and the plasma change as well ).

Can you promote them to veteran Intercessors?

They are Intercessors so yes.

Their only downside that I can see is the lack of Thunderhammer. That will probably come with the full unit entry (If GW want them to sell well).

Has anyone compared Ragnar to other wolf Lord builds in terms of efficiency? I love Ragnar and I have him however when trying to build smaller list for ninth edition in anticipation of our models costing more points I began comparing other options.

Ragnar is a beast. He averages 14 hits with Touch of the Wild. With a modicum of luck you can wipe a 10 man Primaris squad with him in one phase. A Thunder Hammer Storm Shield Lord with Saga of the Wolfkin and the Wulfenstone and Touch of the Wild will approach him in damage dealt, but lose out on AP. Add into that you investing your Warlord Trait, a Relic, and losing out on Ragnar's re-roll charges (Ragnar's Invun is worse but he has two more wounds, a wash to me). Personally I'd only take a Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf/Jetpack over Ragnar for a beatstick character. And then only because of the increased mobility.

My biggest complaint is that TWC went up 5 points, their SS went up 3 points

I find that to be a bit harsh. A 20% hike.

and frost swords went up 5 points too

The choice to make a lot of gear (especially melee weapons) either 5pts or 10pts regardless of the differences was stupid if you ask me. Some options will just not get picked using those points. You will take the best 5pt option or the best 10 point option and the rest will never get used.

Getting back to my Wolves after a considerable hiatus focusing on Orks. I'm really loving some of the primaris stuff aesthetically compared to the oldmarines (add the fact that most my minimarines were painted with much less skill than I have now acquired), so I would preferably take as many primaris units as possible. I'm not opposed to using some GH or LF here or there but mostly I'd love to use primaris (and terminators) only.

But therein lies my question, which units are worthwhile for wolves? I have stuff unassembled and kinda wondering how some of these units fit in SW lists:

Infiltrators/ Incursors

Aggressors

Inceptors

Primaris Ancient

Gravis Captain

Repulsor variants (don't have any of these yet but going to run two Impulsors so maybe at least one for target saturation?)

Any of these even worth assembling? I'm getting the Indomitus box and those units all seem pretty solid, already kitbashed some sweet Wolfblade veterans, not loving their vanilla aesthetic for Wolves.. maybe some sanding and green stuff to make them work.

Thanks in advance!

Infiltrators and incursors are good for early board control and that seems to be important in 9th. So I would take 1 or 2 units especially as our scouts can't fill that niche.

Agressors are great, lots of dakka, very punchy. Perfect units to fight over the midfield objectives.

I don't think ancients are worth it.

Instead of inceptors I would rather take either WG with jump packs and combi weapons or Long fangs with plasma cannons

Never tried the repulsors but their points cost does not appeal to me. I would again prefer fangs with plasma, very cheap and good strats along with an inbuilt reroll 1

Gravis captain is decent if your plan is to use him to support the fight for the midfield . If you want to be more aggressive you need more speed

I'm thinking about 10 termis with arjac and a Wulfen stone terminator lord teleporting in but that's over 700 points. If you can't drop near a juice target or better 2 you might be screwed.

Ithe new primarily chaplain on bike looks very tasty with saga of majesty

Just a small addendum to add that plasma inceptors were one of the biggest winners of the 9e repoint. They are crazily cheap now.

grouchoben wrote:Just a small addendum to add that plasma inceptors were one of the biggest winners of the 9e repoint. They are crazily cheap now.

Sadly I only have the Bolter Inceptors from Dark Imperium.

Ragnar69 wrote:Infiltrators and incursors are good for early board control and that seems to be important in 9th. So I would take 1 or 2 units especially as our scouts can't fill that niche.

Agressors are great, lots of dakka, very punchy. Perfect units to fight over the midfield objectives.

I don't think ancients are worth it.

Instead of inceptors I would rather take either WG with jump packs and combi weapons or Long fangs with plasma cannons

Never tried the repulsors but their points cost does not appeal to me. I would again prefer fangs with plasma, very cheap and good strats along with an inbuilt reroll 1

Gravis captain is decent if your plan is to use him to support the fight for the midfield . If you want to be more aggressive you need more speed

I'm thinking about 10 termis with arjac and a Wulfen stone terminator lord teleporting in but that's over 700 points. If you can't drop near a juice target or better 2 you might be screwed.

Ithe new primarily chaplain on bike looks very tasty with saga of majesty

Thanks for your input!

Inceptors or Infiltrators? I feel the 12" anti DS bubble might be a winner in the new edition. Would you go with a 10 man squad for more staying power or split them up for two bubbles?

Gravis WL could be perfect for slogging with the Aggressors however they can't really protect him for long since they are only 3 models. I'm probably going to be running Ragnar and Björn so I'm getting kinda strapped for HQ slots anyway, better take a RP, a WGBL or a WP I suppose.

But I guess I'll build the Infiltrators (any compelling reasons to take Inceptors instead?) and Aggressors at this point.

Oh, one more question, any good reason to build Intercessors with anything else than Bolt Rifles? I have 10 yet to be assembled.

Incursors are cheaper than infiltrators and a bit better in melee. But either is viable. I tend to rather take two small squads than 1 big.

Auto bolt rifles are good. Make them veterans, give them a fist and go for the enemy. You can even advance and shoot if you need the mobility or put them in an impulsor.

The standard marine melee arms actually fit primaris well enough, no need to go hunting for Salamders or Imperial Fist upgrade sprues if you want a hammer or fist

I like the idea of Space Wolf Incursors simply because you can get your super-doctrine, the paired combat knives, and a wolf priest chant to get 3 extra hits for every 6 to hit in combat. Its not the strongest, but its really cool to me.

Space Wolves: 1) +1 to hit in melee if the unit charged, was charged or HR and 2) units with this tactic can HR as if they were characters.
Thaken from here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790330.page

IMO it's good if you're up against another close combat army, you can stagger your forces increase your chance of heroically intervening. I'm imagining using wolves as a screen with other beefier units to heroically intervene.

But all this is moot until the New Codex actually comes out

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Space Wolves: 1) +1 to hit in melee if the unit charged, was charged or HR and 2) units with this tactic can HR as if they were characters.
Thaken from here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790330.page

IMO it's good if you're up against another close combat army, you can stagger your forces increase your chance of heroically intervening. I'm imagining using wolves as a screen with other beefier units to heroically intervene.

But all this is moot until the New Codex actually comes out

Oh wow, if it's 6"Heroic Intervention for everything that's absolutely bonkers.

The Reaper variant of the new Gladiator tank also looks very tasty for SW. Annihilate any screens with 24 S5 AP-2 D1 shots. Plus however much dakka those Tempest Bolters on the front spit out.

 Weazel wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Space Wolves: 1) +1 to hit in melee if the unit charged, was charged or HR and 2) units with this tactic can HR as if they were characters.
Thaken from here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790330.page

IMO it's good if you're up against another close combat army, you can stagger your forces increase your chance of heroically intervening. I'm imagining using wolves as a screen with other beefier units to heroically intervene.

But all this is moot until the New Codex actually comes out

Oh wow, if it's 6"Heroic Intervention for everything that's absolutely bonkers.

No it's not, we will lose the 6", it's not any more in the chapter tactic. All we can hope is that we keep the PA strat so we have it at least once per turn

we need to wait for the Supplement anyway
until that it does not matter what we lose or not as it is just a low effort intermediate solution anyway

Ragnar69 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Space Wolves: 1) +1 to hit in melee if the unit charged, was charged or HR and 2) units with this tactic can HR as if they were characters.
Thaken from here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790330.page

IMO it's good if you're up against another close combat army, you can stagger your forces increase your chance of heroically intervening. I'm imagining using wolves as a screen with other beefier units to heroically intervene.

But all this is moot until the New Codex actually comes out

Oh wow, if it's 6"Heroic Intervention for everything that's absolutely bonkers.

No it's not, we will lose the 6", it's not any more in the chapter tactic. All we can hope is that we keep the PA strat so we have it at least once per turn

Umm yeah, I guess you're right. Maybe they realized 6" heroic on Björn and Ragnar is a bit much. Sad. I'd probably keep the current one instead, 3" interventions are pretty easy to dodge. 6" not so easy.

 kodos wrote:
we need to wait for the Supplement anyway
until that it does not matter what we lose or not as it is just a low effort intermediate solution anyway

PA will remain valid right? Or was that really just rules for 2 months in the middle of a pandemic so no one will have been able to play with them?