Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Perth wrote: I can see Harkon maybe being decent if he's cheap enough. 6 power puts him at the same as a jump Lord. If he's 125 or lower and still has the normal aura and the raptor aura, I think he could be worth it. He's no smash captain, but he helps clear chaff pretty well.
I can't see Calgar at 200, he's 200 now in the codex.
GW tactics 101.
Step 1) Make cool new model
Step 2) Give model amazing rules and/or low points cost in order to make it incredibly appealing to players
Step 3) After the models sales have steadily declined because the market has been saturated, jack up the points cost to promote the sale of other models
For a perfect example of this tactic in action, please refer to the rise and fall of the Wraithknight.
Yeah, just like they did with the Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy!
And the Boomdakka Snazzwagon!
And the Primaris Marines!
And the new Great Unclean Ones!
And the new Thousand Sons!
And the new Deathwatch!
And the new Custodes terminators and character!
And that's why old models with super outdated sculpts are never ever OP, GW's always looking to push the new stuff, am I right? That's why you've got these ancient 2nd and 3rd ed sculpts with terrible rules, like Dark Reapers, Guardsmen, Shining Spears, Basilisks, and marine scouts - total garbage!
....
Now's the part where you claim that the other 50% of the time, when a unit comes out and the rules are terrible, that this ALSO confirms your conspiracy theory because GW tried to make those units have OP rules they're just bad at it / oh, they knew that one would sell anyway so they didn't give it good rules.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Mr Morden wrote: I guess we have given up on Chapter Approved rumours in favour of Vigilus Defiant rumours????
Well, the other threads closed and todays CA reveal was for Open Play, which has the least value by far to people on here.
But it was actually about CA?
Todays reveal? Yes, mostly the character creation stuff as a couple others have talked about. But as I said, most people on Dakka will just go "meh" and hope for something with more substance to talk about tomorrow.
You're getting a chapter master aura, +2CP & a CP regen mechanic. Getting him into combat is not easy, but if he gets there he's super tough to deal with. But his passive buffs are basically worth 200 points in and out of themselves
Perth wrote: I can see Harkon maybe being decent if he's cheap enough. 6 power puts him at the same as a jump Lord. If he's 125 or lower and still has the normal aura and the raptor aura, I think he could be worth it. He's no smash captain, but he helps clear chaff pretty well.
I can't see Calgar at 200, he's 200 now in the codex.
GW tactics 101.
Step 1) Make cool new model
Step 2) Give model amazing rules and/or low points cost in order to make it incredibly appealing to players
Step 3) After the models sales have steadily declined because the market has been saturated, jack up the points cost to promote the sale of other models
For a perfect example of this tactic in action, please refer to the rise and fall of the Wraithknight.
Yeah, just like they did with the Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy!
And the Boomdakka Snazzwagon!
And the Primaris Marines!
And the new Great Unclean Ones!
And the new Thousand Sons!
And the new Deathwatch!
And the new Custodes terminators and character!
And that's why old models with super outdated sculpts are never ever OP, GW's always looking to push the new stuff, am I right? That's why you've got these ancient 2nd and 3rd ed sculpts with terrible rules, like Dark Reapers, Guardsmen, Shining Spears, Basilisks, and marine scouts - total garbage!
....
Now's the part where you claim that the other 50% of the time, when a unit comes out and the rules are terrible, that this ALSO confirms your conspiracy theory because GW tried to make those units have OP rules they're just bad at it / oh, they knew that one would sell anyway so they didn't give it good rules.
LOL marine scouts are garbage.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
chaos45 wrote: ya the new chaos character is total garbage without new Raptor rules/box set being released.
A chaos lord with jump pack and a relic wpn/storm bolter is better....so this guy better be like super cheap point wise otherwise wont see the table.
Raptors had their new kits not too long ago. They just need Vet stats.
However, my only real criticism is that this dude won't buff Warp Talons, which is silly to me. Plus we don't know what exactly his melee weapons are yet, so for all we know he's on par with a generic Lord with a Relic weapon. Still a lot up in the air.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 17:55:50
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Calgar has amazing stats and rules but mobility means you have to either use him in a gunline castle (the most likely and competitive use) or to teleport in with assault units (not exactly the current SM strong suit).
I also want to point out that the article explicitly states he buffs any Legion Raptors.
So assuming he's not garbage, he might be worth using an Aux detachment as he won't benefit from the Black Legion trait anyway, and then you can buff a better Legion's Raptors. Question is of course which ones?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I also want to point out that the article explicitly states he buffs any Legion Raptors.
So assuming he's not garbage, he might be worth using an Aux detachment as he won't benefit from the Black Legion trait anyway, and then you can buff a better Legion's Raptors. Question is of course which ones?
I am not aware of any unit in the game worth -1CP. It's actually better to just pony up the 50pts for 10 Cultists and take a Patrol. You still need Troops, afterall
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I also want to point out that the article explicitly states he buffs any Legion Raptors.
So assuming he's not garbage, he might be worth using an Aux detachment as he won't benefit from the Black Legion trait anyway, and then you can buff a better Legion's Raptors. Question is of course which ones?
I am not aware of any unit in the game worth -1CP. It's actually better to just pony up the 50pts for 10 Cultists and take a Patrol. You still need Troops, afterall
-
Depends if I have 40 points to spare or not. Chaos as a whole doesn't have a terrible amount of issues gathering CP, so I wouldn't be terribly upset about losing just one for the dude.
Ya know, if he ends up not being terrible and Raptors get fixed.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Mr Morden wrote: I guess we have given up on Chapter Approved rumours in favour of Vigilus Defiant rumours????
Well, the other threads closed and todays CA reveal was for Open Play, which has the least value by far to people on here.
But it was actually about CA?
Todays reveal? Yes, mostly the character creation stuff as a couple others have talked about. But as I said, most people on Dakka will just go "meh" and hope for something with more substance to talk about tomorrow.
Well, I got a good laugh out of it, so it accomplished something.
But yeah, considering the campaign book offers new rules and the most anticipated part of Chapter Approved has already been covered by GW, I'm not surprised which of the two book preview articles gets more interest.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
lonewolf81 wrote: terrain is still there for cover saves, line of sight blocking and vertical movement
Assault phase and units like dreadnoughts,cavalry, bikers and monsters (without fly) need all the help they can get.
Otherwise all you see will be castles shooting each other and fly units alround.
Why should anyone pay a load of points for an assault unit that can be so easily denied its assault . So many units are made obsolete because the opponent knows you cant fit or you cant climb a terrain piece right from the start, after an already superbuffed shooting phase.
Check FAQ2 Fly nolonger allows you to ignore terrain or enemy models outside the movement phase.
Infantry can assualt through ruins as if they weren't there anywah you just need to make sure and clear some space for a model to end it's charge in.
What you propose just oppens the door for people to abuse wobbly model to magically be able tlto break the rules.
According to ITC you don't even need to clear room as infantry can stand in the walls of ruins and attack (to stop people from lining up infantry 1.01" from a wall thus making them unchargeable by 32mm bases)... The movement, terrain and cover rules are borked badly.
Do you have a source on the ITC ruling? I don't recall seeing this!
lonewolf81 wrote: terrain is still there for cover saves, line of sight blocking and vertical movement
Assault phase and units like dreadnoughts,cavalry, bikers and monsters (without fly) need all the help they can get.
Otherwise all you see will be castles shooting each other and fly units alround.
Why should anyone pay a load of points for an assault unit that can be so easily denied its assault . So many units are made obsolete because the opponent knows you cant fit or you cant climb a terrain piece right from the start, after an already superbuffed shooting phase.
Check FAQ2 Fly nolonger allows you to ignore terrain or enemy models outside the movement phase.
Infantry can assualt through ruins as if they weren't there anywah you just need to make sure and clear some space for a model to end it's charge in.
What you propose just oppens the door for people to abuse wobbly model to magically be able tlto break the rules.
According to ITC you don't even need to clear room as infantry can stand in the walls of ruins and attack (to stop people from lining up infantry 1.01" from a wall thus making them unchargeable by 32mm bases)... The movement, terrain and cover rules are borked badly.
Do you have a source on the ITC ruling? I don't recall seeing this!
Yeah I thought this was the exact opposite, wasn't there a huge uproar about how a tournament was won by a guard player doing just that, lining up his models at the edge of the wall at just the right distance so nobody could get inside to attack him?
I think they just made Battalions way too good. If they wouldn't Nerf them back down, might want to buff vanguard etc to give 2 or 3 CP.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Perth wrote: I can see Harkon maybe being decent if he's cheap enough. 6 power puts him at the same as a jump Lord. If he's 125 or lower and still has the normal aura and the raptor aura, I think he could be worth it. He's no smash captain, but he helps clear chaff pretty well.
I can't see Calgar at 200, he's 200 now in the codex.
GW tactics 101.
Step 1) Make cool new model
Step 2) Give model amazing rules and/or low points cost in order to make it incredibly appealing to players
Step 3) After the models sales have steadily declined because the market has been saturated, jack up the points cost to promote the sale of other models
For a perfect example of this tactic in action, please refer to the rise and fall of the Wraithknight.
Cool, so they DIDN'T want to sell Primaris, but the drop in points at CA#1 meant they do! And if they drop again it means they really, really, really do! Like super serious guys.
And since the WK is going back down I guess they forgot they had a bunch of kits on the shelf they needed to sell.
And Dark Reapers weren't too strong guys - they were just selling too well. How foolish of us to think that!
People give GW way too much credit with stuff like this. The truth is, they just don't really understand what makes a unit powerful in the game. They just slam some cool sounding rules together and give it a points value that sounds like something that could happen and call it a day.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I also want to point out that the article explicitly states he buffs any Legion Raptors.
So assuming he's not garbage, he might be worth using an Aux detachment as he won't benefit from the Black Legion trait anyway, and then you can buff a better Legion's Raptors. Question is of course which ones?
I am not aware of any unit in the game worth -1CP. It's actually better to just pony up the 50pts for 10 Cultists and take a Patrol. You still need Troops, afterall
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I also want to point out that the article explicitly states he buffs any Legion Raptors.
So assuming he's not garbage, he might be worth using an Aux detachment as he won't benefit from the Black Legion trait anyway, and then you can buff a better Legion's Raptors. Question is of course which ones?
I am not aware of any unit in the game worth -1CP. It's actually better to just pony up the 50pts for 10 Cultists and take a Patrol. You still need Troops, afterall
-
Farseer Skyrunner with Doom in a Drukhari list.
Ehhhh. Even then you're almost always better off with spending the 60 points for a Ranger squad to get a Patrol and some backfield objective coverage.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I also want to point out that the article explicitly states he buffs any Legion Raptors.
So assuming he's not garbage, he might be worth using an Aux detachment as he won't benefit from the Black Legion trait anyway, and then you can buff a better Legion's Raptors. Question is of course which ones?
I am not aware of any unit in the game worth -1CP. It's actually better to just pony up the 50pts for 10 Cultists and take a Patrol. You still need Troops, afterall
-
Farseer Skyrunner with Doom in a Drukhari list.
Ehhhh. Even then you're almost always better off with spending the 60 points for a Ranger squad to get a Patrol and some backfield objective coverage.
That's exactly my point. By taking a minimum Troops (which is useful in its own right) you can take a Patrol and not have to lose a precious, precious CP.
But maybe I am biased as my lists don't seem to exceed 10CPs and those are gone by turn 3, unlike Imperials that can just hemorrhage CPs
Assuming he has a melee profile to that spear, Haarken will be as good as raptors are. Right now they aren't great, because the marine statline isn't that great. If it ever gets some fixes and they become good, then Haarken will be useful.
kombatwombat wrote: And exactly which of the above are triggered at 7” that aren’t also triggered at 10”? Because that’s the manifest difference in suggesting here. If you can come up with any Stratagem/psychic power/etc of note that is manifestly changed by Deep Strike on some units going from 9” to 6” I’m all ears.
Shooting:
Melta
Flamers that are not S4 AP0
Shooting stuff that is behind the bubble wrap with rapid fire weapons or otherwise short range.
Psychic powers:
'eadbanger
Nurgle's Rot
Stream of Corruption
Gift of Chaos
any power that targets the nearest model
Stratagems:
Fight again stratagems (3" pile in + 3" consolidate)
The Dead Walk Again
Nurgle's Rot
Hello, ears!
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
JohnnyHell wrote: Has anyone else noticed his Honour Guard are just mirror flips of each other? That’s some lazy, lazy sculpting!
Alternate view would be that they paid specific attention to the discipline that Honor Guard would display in that they could mirror each other's pose with such precision. Like soldiers keep step with each other.
But it's probably the lazy thing too.
-
Have you noticed the honour guard are not the exact mirror flip of each other? Legs in slightly different positions, capes very different, swords and shields at different angles attached to different arms?
The differences are subtle but they're there. Like they're highly trained soldiers keeping exact step with each other conforming to a tight discipline!
The braid across the chest being flipped says they were flipped, even if tiny alterations were then made. Lazy sculptors don’t need you defending them. ;-)
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Assuming he has a melee profile to that spear, Haarken will be as good as raptors are. Right now they aren't great, because the marine statline isn't that great. If it ever gets some fixes and they become good, then Haarken will be useful.
He doesn't or it would read Spear (shooting) like similar weapons. Some point drops on raptors would be great though.
Raptors are great for getting stuck in and popping off with pistols and chainswords, but also for LD modifiers. With Haarken and Night Lord Raptors you're looking at -3 with just two units. Get a Lord of Terror warlord, some spawn, and some more raptors and you're looking at up to -6 on LD with 2D6 pick the highest.
Of course you need to get them into combat, which is still a problem.
Alternatively with such a big bubble you could take him alongside Thousand Sons and try to have some fun with Treason.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Assuming he has a melee profile to that spear, Haarken will be as good as raptors are. Right now they aren't great, because the marine statline isn't that great. If it ever gets some fixes and they become good, then Haarken will be useful.
He doesn't or it would read Spear (shooting) like similar weapons. Some point drops on raptors would be great though.
Raptors are great for getting stuck in and popping off with pistols and chainswords, but also for LD modifiers. With Haarken and Night Lord Raptors you're looking at -3 with just two units. Get a Lord of Terror warlord, some spawn, and some more raptors and you're looking at up to -6 on LD with 2D6 pick the highest.
Of course you need to get them into combat, which is still a problem.
Alternatively with such a big bubble you could take him alongside Thousand Sons and try to have some fun with Treason.
These are just previews. It wouldn't shock me if they just forgot the (shooting) bit.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
