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Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut





w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
I disagree. The emperor DID oneshot Horus by psychically erasing him from existence. Why didn't he just... you know... do that from the beginning of the fight instead of let Horus pound on him for 20 minutes? The original explanation was that he didn't want to kill Horus because Horus was his favorite and he still thought Horus could be redeemed. Now it is just a mess that has been retconned so many times it doesn't make sense any more.


I know how the old story went. And it made no sense. It does now.

Also, the former lead editor of the HH series has stated that the "loving father vs lost son" scene is no longer cannon.

No, I like the fact that the Emperor thought of his sons as tools more than people, and absolutely thought of them as more of "experiments" than children. But I always thought the emperor let Horus kick the crap out of him because Horus was his favorite tool, and thought that while his tool was damaged, that it might ultimately be repairable.

Horus being able to 1v1 with the emperor while the emperor was going "full out" seems contradictory to what we know about the emperor's power level was, and what we know Horus' power level was (even hopped up on chaos juice). It is also contradictory with the fact that the emperor was able to psychically oneshot Horus later on in the fight while mortally wounded and laying in a pool of his own blood.

The emperor didn't let Horus kick the crap out of him because he "loved" Horus (as we as humans might know love between a father and son), but rather because he was arrogant enough to think that Horus wasn't a big enough of a danger to him to warrant going "full out" and that he could "fix this situation" without resorting to destroying his favorite tool.


The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/29 11:56:16


Tyranid fanboy.

Been around since 3rd edition. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Andersp90 wrote:
The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.

You may be right, but I refuse to believe that Horus (even at the height of his power) was as powerful as the emperor. That just doesn't mesh with the established lore at all. The emperor could have trashed all 18 primarchs coming at him at once.
   
Made in ca
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Could have? At what cost?
   
Made in dk
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w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.

You may be right, but I refuse to believe that Horus (even at the height of his power) was as powerful as the emperor. That just doesn't mesh with the established lore at all. The emperor could have trashed all 18 primarchs coming at him at once.


You have to remember that the emperor got a huge powerboost on Molech after entering the chaos gate and making his pact with the dark gods (he arrived in a rocket but did not leave in it..).

Horus also went through the same gate - mabye they gave him an extra shot of juice to make sure that he could beat the emperor (or so they thought)?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/29 14:51:26


Tyranid fanboy.

Been around since 3rd edition. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.

You may be right, but I refuse to believe that Horus (even at the height of his power) was as powerful as the emperor. That just doesn't mesh with the established lore at all. The emperor could have trashed all 18 primarchs coming at him at once.


You have to remember that the emperor got a huge powerboost on Molech after entering the chaos gate and making his pact with the dark gods (he arrived in a rocket but did not leave in it..).

Horus also went through the same gate - mabye they gave him an extra shot of juice to make sure that he could beat the emperor (or so they thought)?



no he didnt, this keeps coming up and having read vengful spirit all we know is the emp went in..... and thats it, we dont know what happened on the other side of the door, no pact was made with the dark gods.
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut





 Formosa wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.

You may be right, but I refuse to believe that Horus (even at the height of his power) was as powerful as the emperor. That just doesn't mesh with the established lore at all. The emperor could have trashed all 18 primarchs coming at him at once.


You have to remember that the emperor got a huge powerboost on Molech after entering the chaos gate and making his pact with the dark gods (he arrived in a rocket but did not leave in it..).

Horus also went through the same gate - mabye they gave him an extra shot of juice to make sure that he could beat the emperor (or so they thought)?



no he didnt, this keeps coming up and having read vengful spirit all we know is the emp went in..... and thats it, we dont know what happened on the other side of the door, no pact was made with the dark gods.


No, we dont know what happent on the other side (well, we kinda do). Whether he stole his new powers or made a pact doesn't matter. We just know he came out more powerfull than ever.

"He’d taken the power his father had taken, but he’d done so without deception."

I am pretty sure he got his powers in exchange for his "sons". Just look up the word Molech, and the meaning behind it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/29 18:01:15


Tyranid fanboy.

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I personally still interpret that line of thinking from Horus as another chaos based lie that Horus lapped up. Of Course the Emperor had to have stolen his powers from Chaos and of course Horus totally earned them the right way. I think what he got on Molach was the warp juice needed to bring his Primarchs to life, which explains why he could only make such a small number of them.
   
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HoundsofDemos wrote:
I personally still interpret that line of thinking from Horus as another chaos based lie that Horus lapped up. Of Course the Emperor had to have stolen his powers from Chaos and of course Horus totally earned them the right way. I think what he got on Molach was the warp juice needed to bring his Primarchs to life, which explains why he could only make such a small number of them.


The chaos gods never really lie in the HH series. They just present the truth in a manner that serves their end. The vision they gave magnus is a good example.

Regarding horus:

""‘At the dawn of the great diaspora, the Emperor travelled here [to Molech] in humble guise and found the gateway to a realm of immortal gods. He offered them things only a god-in-waiting could offer, and they trusted Him. They gave Him a measure of their power, and with that power He wrought the science to unlock the mysteries of creation.""

I dont think that is a lie.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/29 18:44:21


Tyranid fanboy.

Been around since 3rd edition. 
   
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I personally believe that the Emperor got power from whatever he did past the gate on Molech. But that if he used the power to empower himself (seems like a bad idea, corruption and all that) or to create the primarchs or something else is unknown for us.

This (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/God-Emperor_of_Mankind#ADB_on_the_Emperor_in_Master_of_Mankind) gives some insight on what ADB was thinking about the emperor when writing him and I like some points made. Especially about the emperors duplicity. That he never calls them (the primarchs) by their name but he literally says Magnus as the first words in the book.

More generally about the lore changes, I think they should have gone slower. Make cadia fall + having a war for cadia (and not just the fall itself) . Months later eldar releases and the fall of biel-tan. Simply more space between the events and release models relevant to this while it happens.

EDIT:

This could be the primarchs. Superhuman beings with connection to the warp. Would also explain why he created no more after having lost them all, he simply could not.
Andersp90 wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:


""‘At the dawn of the great diaspora, the Emperor travelled here [to Molech] in humble guise and found the gateway to a realm of immortal gods. He offered them things only a god-in-waiting could offer, and they trusted Him. They gave Him a measure of their power, and with that power He wrought the science to unlock the mysteries of creation.""

I dont think that is a lie.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/29 18:51:37


They told me i was crazy, that i could not win with an army list like that. 2000 points later i found out that they were right

My painting log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/662274.page#8093321
 
   
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Andersp90 wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
I personally still interpret that line of thinking from Horus as another chaos based lie that Horus lapped up. Of Course the Emperor had to have stolen his powers from Chaos and of course Horus totally earned them the right way. I think what he got on Molach was the warp juice needed to bring his Primarchs to life, which explains why he could only make such a small number of them.


The chaos gods never really lie in the HH series. They just present the truth in a manner that serves their end. The vision they gave magnus is a good example.

Regarding horus:

""‘At the dawn of the great diaspora, the Emperor travelled here [to Molech] in humble guise and found the gateway to a realm of immortal gods. He offered them things only a god-in-waiting could offer, and they trusted Him. They gave Him a measure of their power, and with that power He wrought the science to unlock the mysteries of creation.""

I dont think that is a lie.


That quote could support either of our positions though. Either it boosted his power directly or it gave him the missing ingredient to make the primarchs. Given that all of them had latent psychic potential and how Fenrus Manus's death was described, I inteprete what he got was the 20 (21) warp charges/souls he needed to bring his kids to life.
   
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SoCal

Andersp90 wrote:

The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.


Jesus, Black Library, what the crap??

"You know those vignettes that made you fall so in love with the Heresy that we were able to sell you fifty books that barely held a whiff of the old magic? We're gakcanning them in favor of the new crap."

That is the most heartbreaking thing GW have done with one of their settings since the death of the Old World. Do they really think their edgelord Psychopath Emperor is as compelling as the old well-meaning but ruthless and ultimately flawed Emperor?

It's like watching Robocop turn into Remake Robocop. I ...I...

What the crap, Black Library?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.

You may be right, but I refuse to believe that Horus (even at the height of his power) was as powerful as the emperor. That just doesn't mesh with the established lore at all. The emperor could have trashed all 18 primarchs coming at him at once.


You have to remember that the emperor got a huge powerboost on Molech after entering the chaos gate and making his pact with the dark gods (he arrived in a rocket but did not leave in it..).

Horus also went through the same gate - mabye they gave him an extra shot of juice to make sure that he could beat the emperor (or so they thought)?


Damn does that sound stupid. Using bad fluff to defend bad fluff. BL really gakked the bed.

The Emperor, as he had been portrayed for decades before the revisionism, was beyond a match for Horus, and even the Chaos Gods feared his direct wrath. Nerfing him, making him some petty sociopath, and removing any hint of moral ambiguity in favor of his vision, have all made the Remake Emperor grating and bland. They've taken the humor, the humanity and the spark of hope out of the setting, leaving us with some empty Snyderverse hellscape that isn't worth reading about.

I don't understand why anyone would think the fight would be better with all of the emotional stakes replaced by power levels.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/01 00:39:44


   
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Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
I disagree. The emperor DID oneshot Horus by psychically erasing him from existence. Why didn't he just... you know... do that from the beginning of the fight instead of let Horus pound on him for 20 minutes? The original explanation was that he didn't want to kill Horus because Horus was his favorite and he still thought Horus could be redeemed. Now it is just a mess that has been retconned so many times it doesn't make sense any more.


I know how the old story went. And it made no sense. It does now.

Also, the former lead editor of the HH series has stated that the "loving father vs lost son" scene is no longer cannon.

No, I like the fact that the Emperor thought of his sons as tools more than people, and absolutely thought of them as more of "experiments" than children. But I always thought the emperor let Horus kick the crap out of him because Horus was his favorite tool, and thought that while his tool was damaged, that it might ultimately be repairable.

Horus being able to 1v1 with the emperor while the emperor was going "full out" seems contradictory to what we know about the emperor's power level was, and what we know Horus' power level was (even hopped up on chaos juice). It is also contradictory with the fact that the emperor was able to psychically oneshot Horus later on in the fight while mortally wounded and laying in a pool of his own blood.

The emperor didn't let Horus kick the crap out of him because he "loved" Horus (as we as humans might know love between a father and son), but rather because he was arrogant enough to think that Horus wasn't a big enough of a danger to him to warrant going "full out" and that he could "fix this situation" without resorting to destroying his favorite tool.


The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.

The response to Laurie of course is that the reason people cling to William King's work is because unlike Laurie he isn't a hack who completely fails to comprehend Greek tragic structure, or is simply a sellout focused on making money off of a needlessly bloated and artistically bankrupt book series.

The lead editor may get to choose the canon, but that doesn't prevent the editor from being a godawful writer.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
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If Horus could fight his father equally with the Emperor giving it his, that's a massive retcon to how strong the Emperor was versus Horus. I much prefer the version that Horus even with all Four Chaos Gods giving him some juice still would not have not had a chance if the he had gone all out initially. The Emperor when he let go should be that powerful, otherwise why would chaos be that freaked out by him.

Russ in the new time line fought Horus to a near loss with a spear that the Emperor bless with a bit of his power. The idea that the same guy at full power who could create a star on command had problems fighting Horus is just ridiculous

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/12/01 03:04:10


 
   
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 Wyzilla wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
I disagree. The emperor DID oneshot Horus by psychically erasing him from existence. Why didn't he just... you know... do that from the beginning of the fight instead of let Horus pound on him for 20 minutes? The original explanation was that he didn't want to kill Horus because Horus was his favorite and he still thought Horus could be redeemed. Now it is just a mess that has been retconned so many times it doesn't make sense any more.


I know how the old story went. And it made no sense. It does now.

Also, the former lead editor of the HH series has stated that the "loving father vs lost son" scene is no longer cannon.

No, I like the fact that the Emperor thought of his sons as tools more than people, and absolutely thought of them as more of "experiments" than children. But I always thought the emperor let Horus kick the crap out of him because Horus was his favorite tool, and thought that while his tool was damaged, that it might ultimately be repairable.

Horus being able to 1v1 with the emperor while the emperor was going "full out" seems contradictory to what we know about the emperor's power level was, and what we know Horus' power level was (even hopped up on chaos juice). It is also contradictory with the fact that the emperor was able to psychically oneshot Horus later on in the fight while mortally wounded and laying in a pool of his own blood.

The emperor didn't let Horus kick the crap out of him because he "loved" Horus (as we as humans might know love between a father and son), but rather because he was arrogant enough to think that Horus wasn't a big enough of a danger to him to warrant going "full out" and that he could "fix this situation" without resorting to destroying his favorite tool.


The whole "holding back" thing is going the way of the dodo.

"Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then."

Quote from the former lead editor of the HH series.

The response to Laurie of course is that the reason people cling to William King's work is because unlike Laurie he isn't a hack who completely fails to comprehend Greek tragic structure, or is simply a sellout focused on making money off of a needlessly bloated and artistically bankrupt book series.



Remember, the quote is from the FORMER lead editor and that story isn't written yet. It could very well change now.

The lead editor may get to choose the canon, but that doesn't prevent the editor from being a godawful writer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/01 03:12:48


 
   
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Audustum wrote:


Remember, the quote is from the FORMER lead editor and that story isn't written yet. It could very well change now.

Hopefully it does change. While the Horus Heresy is too late to salvage (literally because it's ending), the Battle of Terra series could preserve some of the emotion of the original story instead of soulless action and M.N.Shyamalan style twists.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
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San Jose, CA

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If Horus could fight his father equally with the Emperor giving it his, that's a massive retcon to how strong the Emperor was versus Horus. I much prefer the version that Horus even with all Four Chaos Gods giving him some juice still would not have not had a chance if the he had gone all out initially. The Emperor when he let go should be that powerful, otherwise why would chaos be that freaked out by him.

Russ in the new time line fought Horus to a near loss with a spear that the Emperor bless with a bit of his power. The idea that the same guy at full power who could create a star on command had problems fighting Horus is just ridiculous


Yeah this makes sense.
   
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Halandri

I don't mind if Deamon Horus is on a level with the Emperor in personal combat.

I figure the Gods abandon Horus, leaving him weak enough for the Emperor to make his delete attack.

If we cast our mind back to Wolf of Fire and Ash, we can see the Emperor's delete attack requires a decent blow with his sword, being a jumped up Force Weapon attack, and it is initially very draining.

That said, after the attack is done, shouldn't the Emperor receive a terrific boost in power, including restoring his physical form? Something must have gone wrong, or he used a different delete attack to the one he used against the aforementioned mega mek.
   
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SoCal

What is Wolf of Fire and Ash, and why should we settle for that lame precedent instead of the iconic original material that launched the franchise?

   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What is Wolf of Fire and Ash, and why should we settle for that lame precedent instead of the iconic original material that launched the franchise?
I believe it's a short story, as part of the Horus Heresy - the new Horus Heresy that is being regarded as canon by BL.

It is, by that regard, more valid as to it's canonicity.


They/them

 
   
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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What is Wolf of Fire and Ash, and why should we settle for that lame precedent instead of the iconic original material that launched the franchise?
I believe it's a short story, as part of the Horus Heresy - the new Horus Heresy that is being regarded as canon by BL.

It is, by that regard, more valid as to it's canonicity.


Which again, even in the new time line makes no sense. The few times we've seen the Emperor lose it and flex his muscle he well out classed anyone else. Again, Russ nearly managed to kill Horus in his most corrupt/powerful form. GW needs to hand over the novel that covers their fight to a very good author to try and pull the climax of climaxes in 40k make sense in both versions of his characterizations.
   
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Bristol

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What is Wolf of Fire and Ash, and why should we settle for that lame precedent instead of the iconic original material that launched the franchise?
I believe it's a short story, as part of the Horus Heresy - the new Horus Heresy that is being regarded as canon by BL.

It is, by that regard, more valid as to it's canonicity.


It may be regarded as canon by GW. That doesn't mean the fans will accept it as such.

Only Han fired.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

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 Wyzilla wrote:
Audustum wrote:


Remember, the quote is from the FORMER lead editor and that story isn't written yet. It could very well change now.

Hopefully it does change. While the Horus Heresy is too late to salvage (literally because it's ending), the Battle of Terra series could preserve some of the emotion of the original story instead of soulless action and M.N.Shyamalan style twists.


I really dont think it will. And Dark Imperium all but confirms it.

But lets see. The fans wanted ADB's head on a stake after Master of mankind came out.

This is what Laurie Goulding has to say on the matter:

"I'm failing to see how this book has changed anything. The Imperium has NEVER been a nice place to live, and whoever rules from Terra, they do so in a harsh and uncaring way.

Does no one else remember all the old stories in the HH series where people who weren't part of the Imperium thought the Emperor was nothing more than a cold, unfeeling tyrant?

THAT'S BECAUSE HE IS.

We're now seeing those same traits from the POV of individuals closest to him. It's harder to deny something to the guy who has carried out your orders, etc.

Literally NOTHING has changed in the setting. This is what the Emperor always was, and always will be in Warhammer 40,000. The thing is, to deify someone and worship them for 10,000 years means that you will literally only ever see them with a halo. We've had John Grammaticus thinking the Emperor was a dangerous, duplicitous douchebag since Book 7, and 'The Last Church' in Book 10 showed just how horrible he could be to those who disagreed with him.

Warhammer 40,000 is not Halo, or Star Wars, or any of the other optimistic sci-fi settings. It's always been 100% dark. The clue has been on the first page of every edition of Warhammer 40,000 since Rogue Trader. :rolleyes:"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 12:35:53


Tyranid fanboy.

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 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I think GW are going overboard, first cadia falls, Ynnari the rift, Primaris and now the Iron men. Its getting ridiculous now, if UR-025 is a man of iron but is a one of a kind novelty but I think GW need to spread out the changes, I hope this isn't just permanent fixture in GW, where they just keep releasing gak for money.
they made calgar a primaris while the mini looks badass but lore wise dumb af.
   
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U.k

 Commissar.Dan wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I think GW are going overboard, first cadia falls, Ynnari the rift, Primaris and now the Iron men. Its getting ridiculous now, if UR-025 is a man of iron but is a one of a kind novelty but I think GW need to spread out the changes, I hope this isn't just permanent fixture in GW, where they just keep releasing gak for money.
they made calgar a primaris while the mini looks badass but lore wise dumb af.


Why dumb af? It’s no more dumb than the making of marines in the first place. If it’s the primaris thing then marines getting new stuff isn’t new either. Every edition new kits came out and we were supposed to accept they had always been there we just didn’t here about them so it didn’t break the no new tech idea. I don’t get the hate.
   
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Andersp90 wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
Audustum wrote:


Remember, the quote is from the FORMER lead editor and that story isn't written yet. It could very well change now.

Hopefully it does change. While the Horus Heresy is too late to salvage (literally because it's ending), the Battle of Terra series could preserve some of the emotion of the original story instead of soulless action and M.N.Shyamalan style twists.


I really dont think it will. And Dark Imperium all but confirms it.

But lets see. The fans wanted ADB's head on a stake after Master of mankind came out.

This is what Laurie Goulding has to say on the matter:

"I'm failing to see how this book has changed anything. The Imperium has NEVER been a nice place to live, and whoever rules from Terra, they do so in a harsh and uncaring way.

Does no one else remember all the old stories in the HH series where people who weren't part of the Imperium thought the Emperor was nothing more than a cold, unfeeling tyrant?

THAT'S BECAUSE HE IS.

We're now seeing those same traits from the POV of individuals closest to him. It's harder to deny something to the guy who has carried out your orders, etc.

Literally NOTHING has changed in the setting. This is what the Emperor always was, and always will be in Warhammer 40,000. The thing is, to deify someone and worship them for 10,000 years means that you will literally only ever see them with a halo. We've had John Grammaticus thinking the Emperor was a dangerous, duplicitous douchebag since Book 7, and 'The Last Church' in Book 10 showed just how horrible he could be to those who disagreed with him.

Warhammer 40,000 is not Halo, or Star Wars, or any of the other optimistic sci-fi settings. It's always been 100% dark. The clue has been on the first page of every edition of Warhammer 40,000 since Rogue Trader. :rolleyes:"



Pretty much this.

The Emperor sought to save mankind. That doesn't mean he cares about you, or even your planet. He's thinking on a scale few could ever contemplate. Individual lives are nothing. Individual planets likewise. Step out of line, and he'll send in his Sons to stomp you flat, wiping you out entirely if needs be.

He is not nice. He is not kind. He is not wonderful. He is necessity.

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SoCal

If the Imperium would have been exactly as bad with the emperor as without, it reduces the tragedy. If Horus is no longer the Emperor's favorite son, but an object malfunctioning in His eyes, it reduces the tragedy. The Horus Heresy worked as a legendary tragedy, but not so much as a brawl between just-as-bad sociopaths.


PS: This is why Chaos fanboys shouldn't write Imperial background. Now the whole setting sucks. Thanks, guys.

   
 
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