Terminator 6 - Dark Fate. Now with added trailer!

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**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Saw it,

Loved it.

Comments about best since T2 are correct. And not in a ‘it’s less crap than T3’ etc. It’s a genuinely good film.

However. I expect it to be at least slightly divisive. Not in a TLJ marmite way. Instead, I think most people will be able to actively enjoy the film - just the exact level of enjoyment will range between 5.9 and 9.3 out of 10.

And yes, sadly some of the CGI is a bit ropey, but for me not distractingly so.

Defo worth seeing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Put it this way. In no way can I see this offering needing a Mad Doc Defends thread

Genuine moments of tension and suspense, and even some new style body horror, which we’ve not really seen them tackle since The Terminator.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, not gonna comment further because spoilers.

It’s familiar turf in so far as being a chase movie, but it’s not the TFA equivalent lazier reviewers have referred to. Far from it.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I guess now I'll have to see it.

**Casualty**

It gets bogged down a bit in the last act and somebody who has never heard humans speak takes over the dialogue for about ten minutes, but the first 2/3s are FIRE and it gets its footing back at the end. Flawed, but I hugely enjoyed it and Hamilton was done so dirty by those trailers, she's great. Mackenzie Davis would have run away with the movie easily against anybody else though.

I've seen a lot of jokes about it being faint praise to say it's better than the other post T2s, which is fair, but the distance is in miles. It's a really good action movie. Could have been a great action movie if they'd kept it all as tight as the first half, but I'd be delighted to see it again.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I pretty much agree.

It’s not perfect, but honestly, neither were T1 or T2.

But it doesn’t dishonour it’s esteemed predecessors in any way, shape of form.

Man, I’d love to see Grace go toe to toe with a T-101!

**SamusDrake**

Had a good time and thankfully Arnold does NOT play the same T-800 from the '84 original and is more comfortable in this role than in his last two movies(T3 and Genisys). It was a final hurrah for Arnold - hes been through a lot lately - and just having Linda back for another movie was a welcome move. The new faces were really good too.

Those expecting something as good as the first and second installments will be disappointed, as this one is really covering the same ground from the last three sequels. Also, it lacks the blockbuster energy that a terminator movie needs - in the first two movies you have a memorable title sequence other movies can only dream of having, and while the music is decent enough it never stands out. And for the love of JC, the Terminator series needs to move on from the tired "I've been sent back to protect you" routine.

Is it a bad film? Certainly not and if you like robot thrillers you can do far, far worse. To the contary, I reckon you'll enjoy it.

**Casualty**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Man, I’d love to see Grace go toe to toe with a T-101!

Oh man yes. One thing I did love in the last act is how distinct their fighting styles are, and I loved seeing them figure out how to fight as a pair so much it felt almost like fanservice somehow. Grace felt very fully formed for a character who's only existed for this movie.

The baddieminator was much better than I expected too, probably not a character I'll think about in years to come, but the whole sequence between him trailing them to the border until they get in the helicopter made him feel like a genuine threat, they just could not shake him off and it definitely felt like Dani was within a few steps of being toast.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Yup.

Also nice to see them pick up and run with the digital age threat.

This was first sort of touched upon in Terminator 3 : Rise of the Machines, and is one of the better touches in that movie.

But here, it's pulled off with greater skill. The Baddieminator here feels genuinely threatening. And that he has greater social skills than a T-101 is likewise a neat touch. Makes it a more convincing infiltration unit, as it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
To the early, and entirely justified naysayers in this thread?

Go.

Watch.

Feel faith renewed,

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Serial, fellow Dakkanauts.

Your doubt is well placed after three ropey sequels

But this one is good

So good, I can’t do spoilers. You needs to see this with fresh eyes.

**SamusDrake**

Expecting a "worthy successor " to the first two movies is setting oneself up for disappointment, but it is an enjoyable movie all the same.

Giving it a few days to reflect(yes, Terminator is THAT important, dammit!), I enjoyed Terminator: Salvation the most out of all the sequels beyond T2. Unlike the other Terminator sequels that rehash the formula of the first Terminator, Salvation does so thinly and instead opts for a strange blend of War of the Worlds and Saving Private Ryan. The others are always sending a protector back in time to ward off a new-improved cyborg, but with Salvation we join Marcus(a cyborg himself) on a nightmare tour of the future and his heroic mission to rescue Kyle Reese and to make sense of his "borrowed time". Arnold wisely takes a step back from the franchise and for the first time since the original his character(although a difference instance) is once again a brutal killing machine instead of the comic relief he has slowly become over time.

Instead of yet another T-800 and T-1000 hybrid, Salvation introduces other machines that inhabit the future. The Harvester is but the beginning of a thrilling action sequence, followed by motorbike cyborgs and even hydro-eels. We also become aquainted with the resistance itself. Speaking of which, Salvation boasts quite a few physical effects for its machines thanks to the skill at Stan Winston's studio.

Salvation is not a brilliant movie, but it does move the franchise outside its comfort zone. Its a shame Dark Fate wasn't as daring.

**Casualty**

Saw it again. The bits where it stumbled are even more frustrating second time around because the bits it gets right it gets SO right.

There are some neat little details I hadn't noticed first time around, too, that texture the characters a little bit more. Grace's reactions to stuff early on make more sense when you know what's actually going on in her head (that "everybody dies" line in particular), and Linda Hamilton's performance is really, really good when the dialogue is on her side.

**SamusDrake**

Found this review which sums up Dark Fate quite well and is spoiler free...

Spoiler:

**AduroT**

I really liked Carl.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Well, seems it's done $12,000,000 box office so far, which doesn't seem too bad given it's current limited release.

For my recommendation? If you're a habitual cinema goer? Go see it. It's worth it.

If you're a more reluctant cinema goer? Eh, probs wait for home release/rental. I mean, it's good - but it's not something I feel you need to see in the cinema, but definitely something you won't regret watching.

**Casualty**

I'd usually agree, but Idk, I think I'd be sorry I hadn't seen the early stuff in the factory and the road in a cinema. I'm toying with the idea of seeing it in 4D actually, could be a good opportunity to give that a try. I haven't done 4D before and I think it's a good candidate, apart from the stuff at Carl's place there's pretty much always something happening.

**Ouze**

Yeah, I was wrong about this. It looked like hot garbage from the trailers but it was good. It wasn't amazing, but it was still easily the 3rd best in the franchise. The only parts where the cgi was bad enough to break immersion where in the trailer (when it jumps off the plane when on fire, and doesn't seem to be a finished shot honestly) and an earlier scene

Spoiler:

But none of that mattered. It was a good, solid movie - due in no small part to really solid performances by Mackenzie Davis and Linda Hamilton, along with some really excellent action sequences and a fairly basic, non-convoluted plot. The Arnold elements were small and excellent in conception and execution.

As the third franchise reboot, I hope this one sticks, because it was the most successful at dumping the baggage the other ones had to deal with.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

It's got a decent audience rating on RT, and the professional consensus has increased as well.

As for the CGI, some of the jumps looked well dodgy to my eyes.

**SamusDrake**

Casualty wrote:
I'd usually agree, but Idk, I think I'd be sorry I hadn't seen the early stuff in the factory and the road in a cinema. I'm toying with the idea of seeing it in 4D actually, could be a good opportunity to give that a try. I haven't done 4D before and I think it's a good candidate, apart from the stuff at Carl's place there's pretty much always something happening.

If you mean 4DX where the seat moves and all that jazz, DEFINITELY DO IT FOR STAR WARS! Seriously, I MEAN IT! Last Jedi and Solo were incredible experiences for it! Oh, Atomic Blonde was brutal in the climatic fightscene on the stairs - I was begging Charlize to stop hitting me!

Yeah, Dark Fate should likewise be awesome too. Its a shame they dont do 4DX for Starship Troopers Klendathu drop - that would be the tits!

Sorry for caps locking but I really cannot recommend enough a 4DX Star Wars experience.

**AndrewGPaul**

warboss wrote:
Frequently the first reviews that are allowed are typically glowing regardless of the quality of the film as rated by the actual movie going audience. That's unfortunately even more true of films stressing certain points of view that are in tune with that of many critics. I've seen too many good movies trashed and too many bad ones lauded by the supposed professionals not on the merits of the actual films itself so I'll wait for the amateur fan reviews before deciding if I want to spend my own money. YMMV. Nothing from the trailers has enticed me to change my mind but rather dissipated my existing enthusiasm (referencing the horrible early trailers specifically but not this much more meh one).

The reviews I’ve heard have been “the third best Terminator film, but that’s a low bar”. This film at least remembers that Sarah Connor is the main character of the Terminator series, so I’ll give it that as a plus.

I’ve got a subscription card to my local cinema, but even with that I’ve not been to the cinema in a few months; nothing released recently has even been good enough to see for free.

**nels1031**

Looks like its a pretty big bomb, despite decent reviews. Seems like audience goodwill was tapped out.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/11/02/box-office-james-cameron-and-tim-millers-terminator-dark-fate-starring-linda-hamilton-and-arnold-schwarzenegger-bombs-with-apocalyptic-11-million-friday/#c4cb235a3e84

Even with James Cameron and Linda Hamilton reuniting with Arnold Schwarzenegger in an R-rated sequel which stole from the Star Wars: The Force Awakens playbook, Terminator: Dark Fate once again failed to avoid Judgment Day because audiences just don’t care about the Terminator as a brand, an IP or a franchise.

Terminator: Dark Fate faced judgement day once again yesterday, earning just $10.6 million on Friday. The sci-fi sequel, directed by Tim Miller, produced by James Cameron, and starring franchise vets Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger alongside newbies Mackenzie Davis, Natalia Reyes and Gabriel Luna, was the third attempt to revive the Terminator series in a decade. McG’s Terminator: Salvation, a future war sequel starring Christian Bale, earned just $125 million domestic and $375 million on a $200 million budget. Alan Taylor’s Terminator: Genysis, a time-twisting retcon that paired Schwarzenegger with Emilia Clarke and Jai Courtney, earned $89 million domestic and $441 million worldwide on a $155 million budget, including $113 million in China. Tim Miller’s Terminator: Dark Fate, following the Star Wars: The Force Awakens playbook, is the third strike for the sci-fi series that won’t die and can’t live.

Terminator has become a metaphor for itself, with filmmakers trying different things only to face the same outcome: Judgment Day is inevitable. Hollywood may yet figure out that audiences who aren’t die-hard sci-fi geeks have little interest in additional Terminator movies. Making a “future war” sequel with Christian Bale as John Connor didn’t do it. Making a time-twisting retcon, presumably modeled after Star Trek, didn’t do it. Bringing back the old gang for a passing-the-torch sequel like Star Wars: The Force Awakens didn’t do it. The pitches change, the hooks differ, but the result is always the same. Just because folks liked The Terminator in 1984 and lost their minds over Terminator 2: Judgment Day in 1991 does not mean they have any interest in additional Terminator movies. Just because something was once popular doesn’t mean audiences care for a new iteration.

The sheer hubris, to try to convince audiences three times in a row to want something that they clearly don’t want, at great expense, is frankly appalling. The “this time folks will bite” attitude is what has left theatrical moviegoing in grave peril as streaming and television networks have filled the gap for something beyond cover records of yesterday’s former glories. It is one thing to try a reboot, strike out and move on. It is another thing to pull solid grosses but at too high a cost, like Sony’s Amazing Spider-Man, and then team with a rival and keep the budget in check for the second reboot. It is another entirely to take the same dead franchise and presume that the same audiences who said “No, thank you” not once but twice will somehow magically embrace it on the third try.

Terminator: Dark Fate should earn a $26.7 million opening weekend, or less than the $29 million Fri-Sun debut (in a $42 million Thurs -Mon launch) of Alita: Battle Angel. Depending on legs, it’ll open over/under the $27 million Fri-Sun launch (of a $44 million Wed-Sun debut) of Terminator: Genisys. Yes, that’s between the $33 million debut of Dark Phoenix and the $25 million launch of the Fantastic Four reboots. Those unrequested brand exploitations also seemed to make all the wrong choices leading up to release. While X-Men: Apocalypse earned $122 million in China, Dark Phoenix was rejected with just $65 million. Sure enough, the $113 million earned by Terminator: Genisys (from a $26 million opening day at the end of a blackout period) meant diddly, as Dark Fate is heading toward $24 million opening weekend and under-$55 million total in China after a $9.45 million Friday.

Terminator: Dark Fate is being distributed by Paramount domestically and Fox/Disney overseas (aside from China, where Tencent is distributing). It would be cruelly ironic if it bombed in North America while scoring overseas, giving Disney an un-needed victory. Even if using the Force Awakens playbook (a diverse/inclusive new cast with the franchise stars as mentors in a loose remake of the first flick) was the right call, it was two movies too late. After two lousy Terminator movies (following the decent Terminator: Rise of the Machines, which earned $433 million worldwide in 2003 but wasn’t intended to relaunch the franchise), even a better offering wasn’t enough to entice audiences since they just didn’t care about this franchise. Terminator: Dark Fate is bombing in North America because audiences didn’t want to see it. When audiences don’t care, all the “fixes” in the world can’t prevent Judgment Day.

I can respect that people enjoyed it, hell, I may enjoy it when it streams on Netflix or AmPrime, but I’m not at all surprised. I felt a bomb dropping the second Linda Hamilton used a M72 on a running humanoid target in the trailer. I don’t know why that bothered me so much in a movie about time-traveling shape-shifting cyborgs. But that was the first groan. Then the shoddy CGI. And then some cringe dialogue.

And I’m kind of glad it bombed to be honest, though I feel bad for Linda Hamilton putting so much work getting bodied up. I had a larger post explaining why I’m glad it bombed, but I think its best summed up that this franchise lost touch with what made it great. Its not unique in that regard.

**sajmonikpl1**

Well i hope they wont screw up this film because it looks great!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
warboss wrote:
Frequently the first reviews that are allowed are typically glowing regardless of the quality of the film as rated by the actual movie going audience. That's unfortunately even more true of films stressing certain points of view that are in tune with that of many critics. I've seen too many good movies trashed and too many bad ones lauded by the supposed professionals not on the merits of the actual films itself so I'll wait for the amateur fan reviews before deciding if I want to spend my own money. YMMV. Nothing from the trailers has enticed me to change my mind but rather dissipated my existing enthusiasm (referencing the horrible early trailers specifically but not this much more meh one).

The reviews I’ve heard have been “the third best Terminator film, but that’s a low bar”. This film at least remembers that Sarah Connor is the main character of the Terminator series, so I’ll give it that as a plus.

I’ve got a subscription card to my local cinema, but even with that I’ve not been to the cinema in a few months; nothing released recently has even been good enough to see for free.

Go see it. The bar is low, but this comfortably exceeds it.

**Casualty**

but I think its best summed up that this franchise lost touch with what made it great. Its not unique in that regard.

What I liked about it was that it felt like it *had* done that in some key ways, and I'm sorry it won't get its dues for that. Ultimately I feel it's paying off bills in goodwill the previous movies racked up for it, rather than answering for its own faults.

It's not perfect, but it was right in the ways I wanted a terminator movie to be when T3 came along. The characters matter, it makes time to stop and think now and then, and it takes the source seriously.

I loved it and I'm sorry to think that if and when there's yet another attempt at rebooting the IP, they'll revert to something with all the sharp edges sanded off. Throwminators and TV Guide dartboard casting ahoy.

**Vaktathi**

nels1031 wrote:
Looks like its a pretty big bomb, despite decent reviews. Seems like audience goodwill was tapped out.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/11/02/box-office-james-cameron-and-tim-millers-terminator-dark-fate-starring-linda-hamilton-and-arnold-schwarzenegger-bombs-with-apocalyptic-11-million-friday/#c4cb235a3e84

I can respect that people enjoyed it, hell, I may enjoy it when it streams on Netflix or AmPrime, but I’m not at all surprised. I felt a bomb dropping the second Linda Hamilton used a M72 on a running humanoid target in the trailer. I don’t know why that bothered me so much in a movie about time-traveling shape-shifting cyborgs. But that was the first groan. Then the shoddy CGI. And then some cringe dialogue.

And I’m kind of glad it bombed to be honest, though I feel bad for Linda Hamilton putting so much work getting bodied up. I had a larger post explaining why I’m glad it bombed, but I think its best summed up that this franchise lost touch with what made it great. Its not unique in that regard.

This has been my feeling so far as well. To me, what made the Terminator so awesome was that it wasn't something you just stood and fought, it was an inexorable evil that you fled from and destroyed at great cost through clever ingenuity. Seeing the Terminator being fought hand to hand in the trailer, Marvel Avengers style, is what gave me that "bomb" feeling.

That said, I haven't seen it yet, and there's some impressive gun pr0n in the trailer (Beretta ARX160 & GLX160, Fostech Origin 12, etc), so I hope my initial reactions are in error. I'm heartened by some of the positive reflections people are having here.

**Casualty**

it wasn't something you just stood and fought, it was an inexorable evil that you fled from and destroyed at great cost through clever ingenuity.

I'm honestly not trying to belabour a point here, but that is literally the entire structure of this movie. It's one of the things I've seen it criticised for, that it's basically a single ongoing chase.

One of the characters even says what you've said here almost word for word, repeatedly.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Yet....what is The Terminator if not a single, long chase?

This is where I’m actually, for once, pissed at professional critics. Because they compare it to The Force Awakens.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I like the first two entries in the Disney trilogy. But I also kinda get the criticism.

This is not the same. Yes, it hits familiar beats. Yes it’s a reunion of the two most iconic characters. But it’s not a lazy attempt. It works with the lore, and runs kinda by the numbers. But not slavishly.

This is a good movie. And an excellent addition to the lore. It works within the lore of the first two, and cherry picks the interesting (and ultimately squandered) bits of the others.

I really do like this one. It’s far from perfect, but it is very entertaining, and that’s not bad.

**Vaktathi**

Casualty wrote:
it wasn't something you just stood and fought, it was an inexorable evil that you fled from and destroyed at great cost through clever ingenuity.

I'm honestly not trying to belabour a point here, but that is literally the entire structure of this movie. It's one of the things I've seen it criticised for, that it's basically a single ongoing chase.

One of the characters even says what you've said here almost word for word, repeatedly.

As I said, hadn't seen it, just going off what I saw in the trailer, and glad to hear it's more in that vein than I was led to believe. It looked *real* marvel-esque in the preview.

**BobtheInquisitor**

It has potential to go full Marvel. I hope they make a “spiritual successor” that explores some of the implications of the setting.

Good movie. It was best in the quiet moments. The action was good, but there was too much of it.

**Adeptus Doritos**

$29 million in North America. A box office bomb.

"Good movie" indeed.

I swear, I could see this coming like it was driving down the freeway in a semi truck while "You Could Be Mine" by Guns & Roses blares through the speakers.

The greatest spoiler is what the actual Terminator has been doing.

That's pushing the bounds of "so stupid it's hilarious".

**BobtheInquisitor**

In context, it works. The execution worked. The film had a lot of heart.

**Adeptus Doritos**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
In context, it works. The execution worked. The film had a lot of heart.

It's cool that you liked it, everyone has a preference. I... "didn't buy a ticket and managed to see it", we'll leave it at that.

But "having a lot of heart" is what they say about the slow kid that comes in last, too. I mean, sure- at least he tried, I guess... but sometimes wisdom is knowing when "trying" becomes "a waste of time and resources that isn't worth making a point that you tried".