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https://twitter.com/nick_bayton/status/1127270093489147905

Amazing first day at #warhammerfest2019 talking about Contrast paints! I’ve had a lot of fun with these new wonder paints - most recently using them to paint up my latest #WarhammerUnderworlds warband- the Thorns of the Briar Queen.

So, I used zenithal sprays from black up to white to undercoat. Basilicanum Grey (God juice) glaze over that. Then 2 different greens glazed on the bottom of the cloaks. Various contrasts used on weapons, wood, Flesh etc. All highlighted once.

All done with rattle cans. It’s Chaos black spray all over. Once dry, I sprayed Mech standard grey from above. Then Grey Seer from above. Lastly, a dusting of white from above. Baslicanum Grey contrast + a lot of medium wash blends all colours together.

I used the contrast paints in conjunction with the rest of the range

Do they get darker if you add more? Can they be tweaked with Lahmen medium?

They sure do. Expect loads more info coming soon

Did you whack a cheeky highly on them after the contrasts did their thing?

Indeed! Very cheeky highlight

So 10 years ago GW came up with the easy and fast painting system called Citadel Washes.

Similar to the previous sold Citadel Inks, but without a glossy or shiny finish and better flowability

Perfect for fast painting as Primer+Details+Wash is enough, specially for SciFi models like Space Marines or Tyranids


Worked well as coloured (matt) Washes now completely replaced other companies Inks that all had either a shiny/glossy finish (Tamiya, Schmincke, Winsorw&Newton) or were only brown/black (Army Painter, Vallejo).

But than GW replaced those Washes for the new and better system of Base/Layer/Shade.

As matching 3 colour system painted over primer as much better than Primer+Wash.
And people learned from GW that base colours need to be opaque and cover everything which made it hard to get them into the fast painting techniques used before.


Now we get Washes back, which is a good thing as we have now a wider colour range and more Primers.
Advertised as the new thing that was not there before and make speed painting a thing

People going crazy as now official GW painting technique can do things that were not possible with official GW painting technique before, except if you used an old guide still referring to Washes.

And my personal enthusiasm is limited as the questions is will they last longer than the last time, how much will they cost and is there really an difference compared to colours from other companies (as old Washes are now available from other too).

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
All the fan boys say "woohoo to our GW gods", etc, and buy 34 more paint pots.

Or maybe they've created another painting ecosystem that allows people to achieve results far and beyond what their own personal skill levels would allow them to create, making them very interested in this product.

But by all means, call me a GW fan boy.

My £0.02 on this...

As a frankly not very good painter in the grand scheme of things, especially when I look at people's work online, although I do occasionally put out what is by my rather low skill level a half decent model (I and my style of (bad) painting seem to be stuck in the 90s), I'd love for this "new" "contrast" paint to be the instant-highlight paint that it is claiming to be. Especially as I still have 2/3 of my Warhammer Quest (1995) core set to paint, and I'd like to achieve instant (or at least quick and easy) highlights on the skin of the Minotaurs, among other models I've not yet painted.

However, I question what the few people who are promoting it are being paid, and I question GW's truthfulness about the product.

I have noted that when using Citadel Air (or other similarly thin paints) you can sometimes get an almost instant highlight, at least with Abaddon Black Air, but it's nowhere near as perfect looking as GW are showing in their promotional material for this new contrast paint and I question whether indeed they have formulated a paint that is that perfect.

I'm sure like their shade washes, if you put them on all over the model with no regard for being accurate, you will always have to clean up these contrast paints in the same way you do with their shade wash paints, most likely due to blotchy results on the flatter/larger areas of a Space Marine's armour for example, the legs, the knee pads if present, the shoulder pads etc.

I just cannot see a Space Marine turning out how the example picture on the GW promotional web page showing the stages of painting with "contrast" paints vs the more "classic" way of painting says it will, all nicely highlighted with a very "pro" look just by slopping some paint on it, which is what GW seem to want you to believe. There has to be additional painting involved..

I want to see it done, live and unedited either in person or on youtube, before I start shelling out for yet more emperor's clothes...

I don’t know about using it for nice models but I think I’m go8ng to paint up War of the Ring using these. I wonder if that is part of the draw- the huge number of mini heavy board games and increasing desire for pre-washed and pre-painted minis.

If this had been available when i started painting last year I'd have probably used it. Now though, I'm not sure Ill change because I've built up quite a collection of paints and brushes for the techniques I've already been using...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
All the fan boys say "woohoo to our GW gods", etc, and buy 34 more paint pots.

Or maybe they've created another painting ecosystem that allows people to achieve results far and beyond what their own personal skill levels would allow them to create, making them very interested in this product.

But by all means, call me a GW fan boy.

Exactly this. I mean I can paint about as well as the results I got trying it out yesterday, but it takes me a hell of a lot longer, and I get frustrated. I was actually excited about painting yesterday, for the first time in god knows how long.

Only thing that I can see being a real negative is that I don't think that Contrast paint being good for vehicles or anything that has large, flat surfaces.

Sotahullu wrote:
Only thing that I can see being a real negative is that I don't think that Contrast paint being good for vehicles or anything that has large, flat surfaces.

To be fair, that's true of most "shortcut" brush techniques - drybrushed vehicles often look rubbish as well, and a basic base & edge highlight job looks pretty flat even if it is the neatest. If you want to paint big, flat surfaces with a brush and have them look fantastic, you'll be doing dozens of extremely thin glazes. Large flat surfaces are pretty much the only subject I'll admit that airbrushes are flat out the better tool for the job if you want to do it quickly.


As to the zenithal undercoat, seeing those Shadespire ghosties, I'm not actually sure the black was a benefit. I think I'll start experimenting with a two-tone zenithal approach using a flat neutral grey and either of the new sprays, and if areas need additional definition after the application of the contrast paint I'll add it by hand. That approach also allows for deepening the shadows with different colours. I'll also try adding a drybrush of pure white over the two-tone undercoat and see how good the contrast paints are at blending that highlight into the gradient.

It depends on the drybrushing, really. Even on things like Eldar tanks, proper drybrushing can pick up the panel edges well. Better than edge highlighting sometimes, as that often emphasises the individual panels at the expense of the overall shape.

What's the consistency of these new Contrast paints like? From their video it looks like they're more viscous than inks or washes, but perhaps not quite as thick as the "gem" paints. That means you quite probably could paint a Leman Russ or Rhino with them, although you might want to do one surface at a time so it can be left to dry while horizontal. A quick drybrushed highlight to bring things together and you're good to go.

OK for "lazy" painters? That's unnecessarily derogatory. An army painted like this will look better, IMO, than one where three models are painstakingly washed, blended, glazed and detailed and the rest is bare plastic, and leaves you more time to spend that effort on the characters and centrepieces. The thing I'd need to look into is how well the result of using these paints sits next to "traditionally" painted models. Hopefully a model painted Macragge Blue with a Nulkn Oil recess shade then highlighted with Calgar Blue and Fenris Grey looks the same kind of blue as that Intercessor Squad close by done with Ultramarines Blue.

I do have to take slight issue with H.B.M.C. about the names making sense, though. "Snakebite Leather", for instance, no more tells me that the paint is brown than "XV-88" does.

Well, at least "leather" was an implication of it being brown, rather than the name of a battlesuit that might not have a single brown color on it in many armies?

Unfortunately for me, I still prefer some of my drybrushing methods over washes, though I use them too. For instance my favorite way to do Ork/c skin is to use Armypainter Angel Green (I used to use Dark Angels green) and then a quick drybrush of Vallejo's replacement for the old Snot Green, which doesn't take much time at all and I think looks great.


It'll be interesting to see what the new paints do, as I already find that just the existing GW color washes and Armypainter Strong tone and Dark Tone are good enough. This Lord Relictor was painted with just simple base colors, with the existing Beil-Tan Green wash over a Vallejo green base, AP Strong Tone over AP Bone, Cadian Flesh and Relictor gold, and Dark Tone over AP Gunmetal. The two sections of grey were a quick drybrush over a base coat, although Dark Tone would probably have worked there, too, but I like a slightly chalky effect to stone. The only part I am not happy with is the red leather weapon haft wraps, but I'm not sure any wash is going to do better than what it did, and I was unwilling to highlight every edge manually.

I'd say that the two main parts of the name - "snake" and "leather" - give us a better real-world approximation or even just educated guess over what the colour could be compared to XV-88, The Fang or Necron Compound.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
"Snakebite Leather", for instance, no more tells me that the paint is brown than "XV-88" does.

Depends on how long you are into GW stuff as Citadel already had a colour of that name 20 years ago and most of the older guys will know better what exactly that colour is than XV-88

"Snakebite Leather" may not tell me exactly what it is, but it tells me quite a lot about what it isn't. XV88 could be literally anything.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

It'll be interesting to see what the new paints do, as I already find that just the existing GW color washes and Armypainter Strong tone and Dark Tone are good enough. This Lord Relictor was painted with just simple base colors, with the existing Beil-Tan Green wash over a Vallejo green base, AP Strong Tone over AP Bone, Cadian Flesh and Relictor gold, and Dark Tone over AP Gunmetal. The two sections of grey were a quick drybrush over a base coat, although Dark Tone would probably have worked there, too, but I like a slightly chalky effect to stone. The only part I am not happy with is the red leather weapon haft wraps, but I'm not sure any wash is going to do better than what it did, and I was unwilling to highlight every edge manually.

Interested in this comparison also. The method you speak to (color block base colors, AP/GW washes) is how I paint the majority of my armies.

I'm a fan of any painting method that saves time. The undead shadespire warband posted looks to be a very promising way of using these new paints (zenithal priming, all over wash, glaze with additional colors, cheeky highlight). It's more work than the '1 thick coat' but still a very fast painting method and results in a higher quality finished piece based on the images posted over the last couple of pages.

A red and a yellow that doesn’t need 5-10 coats? Yes, please!

I have had good results with AP and GW modern reds and coverage, but a good way to paint yellow would be a nice thing to see.

 Ghaz wrote:
Another possibility was that they used thinned Blood for the Blood God over the metallic paint.

Or blood letter red glaze. GW does already have glazes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
You guys are free to use the paint, seriously, I don't care.

I simply presented an alternative way. Gatekeeping? What the hell man haha.

Good luck with your painting guys.

Im gonna go paint some now, for I have the power to mix water and paint! so I do not need to wait for GW so I save both TIME and MONEY!

Dam, it has been a long time since I have seen such blatant epeen-stroking. It would be bad enough if you could actually replicate the GW effect, but to fail twice and then brag about it? Impressive.

I only responded to those who freely wanted to challenge me on my opinion. I posted pictures and counter arguments. And a discussion was had.

Your comment however, are nothing but trying to bash me for no reason what so ever.

You washed watered paint over a zenithal priming. Adding water is a great trick, congratulations, but you are not addressing surface tension, pigment suspension or viscosity. I know you are very impressed with yourself but formulating paint is a lot more complicated than 'add water durrrrr'. Did you get a good result in your example (again, pretending like the binary priming had nothing to do with the shading lol), yes you did. Will every paint do that with water? Nope. Depends on the pigment density, inherent amount of acrylic suspension, and native surface tension. Once any of those things are out of whack you can get very poor results indeed. You are over-simplifying because it serves your ego and apparently that is something you are badly in need of by your behaviour in this thread, but regardless you are doing yourself and your audience a disservice by beating the horse to death here.

Yea plus he obviously used procreate! I mean yo ucan see it right there in the picture

Here you go. Unedited footage of someone using the new paints.
https://youtu.be/cIEtAlMSndQ

double post.

I mean if this helps get armies on the table faster and help people to actually paint stuff I don't really see a problem with these paints. I know I have a bunch of project in limbo because damn they take awhile to paint! Anything that speeds that up is good in my book.

Voss wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I watched a video from a guy that was there and got to play around with the paints.

Apparently they are slow drying like a wash (no surprise there) and the layers are incredibly thin. Like a tenth as thin. So it is very important to seal the layers in since they can rub off easily. Whatever the medium it uses is, it isn't durable like normal shades.

You also cannot mix them with other paint or use other mediums. Well you can, but the effect is lost. You can mix them with each other though.
.

A tenth as thin? That sounds like the exact opposite of what they're describing on the community page. That honestly sounds like water with food coloring.

WarCom wrote:Contrast is a new type of paint designed to make awesome results accessible to anyone, fast. With Contrast, you’ll have everything you get from a Base and Shade, but in a single application and a single coat.

Advertising rhetoric vs actuality of the product aside, what they're describing doesn't involve thin layers at all.

I don't see how that has anything to do with how thin the paint drys. It's all in the medium. You can slather a model in wash and a model in the same volume of paint and they will dry with very different thickness in layers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I watched a video from a guy that was there and got to play around with the paints.

Apparently they are slow drying like a wash (no surprise there) and the layers are incredibly thin. Like a tenth as thin. So it is very important to seal the layers in since they can rub off easily. Whatever the medium it uses is, it isn't durable like normal shades.

You also cannot mix them with other paint or use other mediums. Well you can, but the effect is lost. You can mix them with each other though.


Oh and I guess they will work over any primer, GW just made these new colors because they happen to be good for the effect but there isn't anything preventing you from using other undercoats and getting the effect.

They seem like fun and would definitely take the skill out of painting with glazes for folks that are not super familiar with how to do it. I still think these would look miles better over a zenethial undercoat though.

They dried in about 10 minutes, max. I dunno if I’d call that slow drying, especially with the amount you slather on.

To the touch probably, doesn't mean they have fully cured. With such thin layers if you don't wait at least 30 minutes your gona hate yourself when you pull paint if you try painting over them or handle the models to much.

Chikout wrote:
Here you go. Unedited footage of someone using the new paints.
https://youtu.be/cIEtAlMSndQ

Yup, thought so - the trick for their new undercoats is "they come out with a really smooth finish", so whack a gloss varnish over any undercoats you like and the contrast paints should behave in exactly the same way as with the "official" ones.

They're adding the two new undercoat colours to the base paint range as well apparently, which will be good for touch-ups if you over-apply any of the contrasts.

I usually just use hardware store rattle cans with a satin finish myself, but it is nice to have a rattle can with a perfect matching base paint.

I really want to see how these look over metallics.

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
I was trying to talk and figure out this product?

Let people buy their bottled water. As a bonus you would play less with grey plastic.

@Red Corsair- it doesn't. I wasn't questioning the drying time, which seemed reasonable. I was questioning the part about 'a tenth as thin' and 'lots of layers' for something described as a one coat system.

Whilst I rarely tip my hat to the Geedubs I have to admire the insidious mind behind this

yes yes you can paint buckets of mini's with this, why not buy some and this new paint

ignore the naysaying pedents pointing out the gulf betwixt can and will

Actually quite enthused by these paints as it is similar to a technique I try and employ at the moment. My 30K Imperial Fists are washed over a white undercoat and have a similar effect. I will echo the thought that it looks slightly crappier on vehicles but that is a trade-off I personally am willing to accept because of the speed involved with the technique.

Again, personally speaking, I would rather have a fully painted army rather than the sea of grey I currently have so anything that can get me actually finishing projects for once and within my own lifespan is only a good thing IMO.

Better washes over white paint is nice, but hardly revolutionary. It's more of a marketing shift on GW's part to sell you watered down pigments and proprietary spray primers rather than touting "2 thin coats" of less watered down pigments. People were already using GW washes over white quite successfully.

I tend to prefer saturated colors and sharp highlights, so this isn't tremendously useful for me. It might be useful in keeping saturated colors but getting stronger shading (i.e. less layers of wash/glazing), but I don't do a ton of glazing to begin with.

One downside based on the pictures shown so far, is that the paints are quite messy (not surprising given the fact they're applied in a thick coat and meant to flow well) - you see colours run over into ajoining areas, or opposite a gap you've but your brush through. The very nature of the paints however means you can't restore the area with the original colour: you have to restore the undercoat, then carefully apply the contrast paint just there. Using a simple base+wash makes corrections a lot easier. The fact that these contrast paints look different over different undercoats makes it tricky to get a single colour of paint that can be used for touch-ups.

Maybe mixing the contrast paints will help a little, but the second issue seems flexibility. The inbuilt wash means bright green will always be washed with bright green, while a dirtier brown or darker black might look much better in the recesses in some contexts. In some examples shown, the colours are more vibrant and rich in pigment in recesses (logically, it's where the paint pools) than on the raised areas, which is not ideal. Mostly noticable on relatively flat surfaces like the Eldar; the cases where only the very edge has a near-white highlight look better. Again, base+wash of choice seems preferred, especially as some dark brown/black washes can sometimes be applied across most of the model.

The greatest benefit or obstacle might finally be the consistency. Previous posters said this was the main advantage compared to thinning with water or medium, but over the years I've had plenty of Citadel paints that were much thinner or chalkier than they were supposed to be. To get consistent results, these pots also have to have consistent quality: time will tell...