Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes

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**xerxeskingofking**

id heard the seige weapon part, though admittedly form Total War games (the torsion powered catapults were called that, as they "had a kick like a Onager") Ballista (as in our Ironstrider Ballistarius) is another weapon based on similar principles with a different mechanism (basically, two arms pulling a string like a bow, not one arm throwing in a arc.)

its also worth noting that in addition to the latin-based "high gothic" naming common to most Imperials (ie any "ii" ending words, the use of "maniples" as a formation, etc), the ADmech seem to have quite a bit of greek-based names in thier units. things like "Kataphron", which is devrived form kataphraktos/Cataphract ("fully armoured", roughly), a type of heavy armoured cavalry. Or the Sydonian Dragoons, with Cydonia being both a region on Mars and a ancient city state on Crete (the Martian area being named after the long extinct city state). "Pteraxii" is a weird mix of a greek first sylable but a latin ending. "Dominus" was a late roman title, often used by the Emperors towards the end of the Empire (the early emperors tended to prefer "princeps", form which we get "prince" and "principal") Serberys/Cerberus was the many headed guard dog that patrolled the Greek afterlife (and the basis for "Fluffy" in the 1st harry potter book)

the character naming generator given for the Admech in Killteam also favours greek and peusdo-greek letters for it character naming.

I just feel it adds a little to the Admech, helping to emphasise that they are Different, almost an empire unto themselves within the greater Imperium. it also has shades of the Eastern Roman/ Byzantine Empire, which also had this mix of roman and greek elements in it.

**Techpriest_**

Don't forget the Skorpius is probably in reference to the siege weapon named the Scorpio/Scorpion as well. Granted, it doesn't make as much sense for the Dunerider as it was essentially a giant crossbow mounted on a tripod, but I'm guessing the name just carried over from the Heavy Support build due to the base model being the same.

**Ideasweasel**

My kid came home with a paper model of an onager

She’s doing a project on Romans just now. But for a split second I thought it was 40K

First time I’d ever heard of it as a siege weapon

**Techpriest_**

I can see the report now:

"The Onager was a siege engine that draws its name and concept from the mules of Earth, and was designed by the tech priests of Mars. Who from the moment they understood the weakness of their flesh, it disgusted them. They craved the strength and certainty of steel, aspiring to the purity of the blessed machine. Your kind cling to your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call a temple will wither and you will beg my kind to save you..."

**laam999**

I'd read that report like

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would people mind giving some thoughts non this list for me.

Spoiler:

The plan is to be durable and try and max secondarys.

The Dominus 3 characters head up with breachers to grab and hold an objective (manipulus for speed, Dominus and Dr D for firepower and forgeworld to get a lot of shots) flyers slow down fast melee targets like wulfen and get me engage on all fronts. Tanks are all pretty mobile and should be able to help with engage on all fronts and attrition. Boat and hoplites are to harass anything that need harassing and help with engage on all fronts.

Assassin is to drop in and either tank a LOT of shots to die or sit there grabbing me repair teleport homers.

I've had 1 game with a version of this list and it was the only game of 9th I've won (none crusade) but some CC would be appreciated.

**Suzuteo**

Problem with Crawlers is that they pretty much always lose out to Disintegrators. I would take Belleros over Icarus and Ferrumite over Neutron any day. :(

**laam999**

Suzuteo wrote:
Problem with Crawlers is that they pretty much always lose out to Disintegrators. I would take Belleros over Icarus and Ferrumite over Neutron any day. :(

The 5++ rerolling 1 along with the 6+++ from the datahorde makes crawlers really tough to shift, they can absorb more firepower than the skorpius. every list I've made without them I've always regretted it.

**Suzuteo**

laam999 wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
Problem with Crawlers is that they pretty much always lose out to Disintegrators. I would take Belleros over Icarus and Ferrumite over Neutron any day. :(

The 5++ rerolling 1 along with the 6+++ from the datahorde makes crawlers really tough to shift, they can absorb more firepower than the skorpius. every list I've made without them I've always regretted it.

Being slightly more durable against AP3 is not worth losing out on double the firepower. Not to mention the 1W and non-LOS shooting. Even the Ferrumite outperforms Neutron against Gravis AND Knights, with better averages and less inconsistency.

**Ideasweasel**

@techpriest

Haha. It’s funny cause a friend lent me the novel forges of mars over a year ago. And she keeps asking if she can read it if I am not reading it.

So you never know. I got her and my son a box of troops. He is painting up some rangers and she is painting daemonettes. I think she wants to swap to worshiping the machine god instead

**laam999**

Suzuteo wrote:
laam999 wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
Problem with Crawlers is that they pretty much always lose out to Disintegrators. I would take Belleros over Icarus and Ferrumite over Neutron any day. :(

The 5++ rerolling 1 along with the 6+++ from the datahorde makes crawlers really tough to shift, they can absorb more firepower than the skorpius. every list I've made without them I've always regretted it.

Being slightly more durable against AP3 is not worth losing out on double the firepower. Not to mention the 1W and non-LOS shooting. Even the Ferrumite outperforms Neutron against Gravis AND Knights, with better averages and less inconsistency.

That's fair, the d3 shots is a harsh pill to swallow at time, hence the redundancy, the better ap and d6min3 damage makes it good for taking a lot of marines vehicles down. I do like the skorpius, which is why I still have two in there. With the extra durability it helps with attrition. Is there anything else you think I could change? I'm not 100% set on hoplites due to lack of forgeworld, but I can't think of a better unit for the price.

**Techpriest_**

While I think the Disintegrator is the best pick in most cases, I do think the Dunecrawler with Icarus Array is perfectly fine as well. As discussed in the video as well, I think people are overlooking the Eradication Beamer in many cases as the Neutron laser appears to be better at first glance but in reality is much more comparable on average.

Ideasweasel wrote:
@techpriest

Haha. It’s funny cause a friend lent me the novel forges of mars over a year ago. And she keeps asking if she can read it if I am not reading it.

So you never know. I got her and my son a box of troops. He is painting up some rangers and she is painting daemonettes. I think she wants to swap to worshiping the machine god instead

I have to start reading more often again, as I picked up that trilogy and have so far gotten only a few chapters in. It's actually a rather interesting story.

Slaanesh Daemons is good right now but Admech is way more fun. If she wants to run female models check out some of the conversions out there using Sisters of Battle and Night Haunt to make female Admech. The robes on Sister's models look great with Ranger hoods.

**laam999**

I read the Forges of Mars books and loved them, it just makes me wsh we had more options for our HQ's I love a Secutor like Dahn to surround himself with skitarii troops.

I'm not in the middle Servants of the Machine God. So far most of the stories are ok, pretty much all about knights, not what I was expecting however.

I would also LOVE and Alpha Primus model. It would add a psychic option to our army and being a semi primarch clone he could be a total beatstick. I want to kitbash him but I'm not that good a modeller.

**Suzuteo**

laam999 wrote:
That's fair, the d3 shots is a harsh pill to swallow at time, hence the redundancy, the better ap and d6min3 damage makes it good for taking a lot of marines vehicles down. I do like the skorpius, which is why I still have two in there. With the extra durability it helps with attrition. Is there anything else you think I could change? I'm not 100% set on hoplites due to lack of forgeworld, but I can't think of a better unit for the price.

Fulgurites are more expensive, but they are extremely good in the current meta because of the S+1 Canticle. Mortal wounds on the charge, then S6 AP2 DD3, which converts to mortals on wound rolls of 6. Throw in Prime Hermeticon for even more consistency. Then you can fight a second time.

The fact that they can deal damage outside of the Fight phase is also pretty important against Necrons, where that Ctan is limited to losing 3 wounds per phase.

Anyhow, ideally you run them Stygies so you can infiltrate them right behind some Raiders. Next best is Lucius for the +1 invulnerable save. Then Mars for the double Canticle.

**laam999**

Hoplites are just because I can't afford the points for priests. I love to drop them in a drill and charge up (I played stygies exclusively in 8th) but the data hoard FW just makes the secondary's easier to get.

The plan is to use the durability and repairs to help with attrition, engage on all fronts from flyers and then vehicles maybe kataphrons and use the assassin for repair teleport homers.

If I lose the hoplites and boa it frees up 200pts, but I'm not sure what 200 pts is worth having over them.

Without transports priests die too quickly, sterlyisorz could work, it would double the wounds and give me some deep striking flamers. Their ability to tie up units could also prove useful, I may test that out instead, having the ability to deepstrike could help with engage on all fronts if the flyers get removed too quickly.

Thanks for the advice all I appreciate it.

**Suzuteo**

Yeah. I did something similar in early 9E. It works, especially since you can reserve Prime Hermeticon for the Breachers who will actually hold the ground. I would still recommend Stygies though. Getting there first is pretty important.

That said, Fulgurites are one of the only ways for us to deal with the Nightbringer Shard, so food for thought.

**deffrekka**

Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone else left wondering why we are getting a new engine war instead of a codex?

Seems an odd fit

My assumption is that all the armies in the campaign book will have new codexes along side them. Deathguard and Dark Eldar are both getting new codexes so it is within reason to predict that the other factions will too. Because what could they do for Admech in this campaign book that a new codex cant do or wont override?

I cant imagine that it will only have updates rules for Metallica. I just dont see them as a crazy popular Admech force... Mars, Stygies, Ryza all seem like more popular forces to base a campaign off. And I dont think it will be more stratagems, we are literally swamped in strats right now with the codex, enginewar and now this warzone.

If a codex comes out after this campaign book, we know engine war will be invalidated as seen by Space Marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels, will the same be true for this campaign book?

I think it's a smarter move to release a codex with the campaign book like seen with Deathguard and Dark Eldar so we have a fresh start and be inline for 9th edition, instead of having rules upon rules bolted on to an extremely old 8th edition codex, with only Grey Knights being older than us.

**cuda1179**

So, I have been getting an Admech army painted. I've basically used this as a conversion project, and making an army that "looks cool" to me rather than built to the rules.

How would an army built around a bunch of Kataphron Destroyers, a blob of Kastellan Robots, and 2 Dunecrawlers do on the tabletop?

**Techpriest_**

cuda1179 wrote:
So, I have been getting an Admech army painted. I've basically used this as a conversion project, and making an army that "looks cool" to me rather than built to the rules.

How would an army built around a bunch of Kataphron Destroyers, a blob of Kastellan Robots, and 2 Dunecrawlers do on the tabletop?

It would probably do ok, and if you're fine with making them Kataphron Breachers it can be very good as those tend to be a core unit with Kastelans and Dunecrawlers being fine heavy units.

Here's a list with plenty of Breachers and Kastelans that placed 4th in a 32 player tournament for reference:

Spoiler:

**Suzuteo**

cuda1179 wrote:
So, I have been getting an Admech army painted. I've basically used this as a conversion project, and making an army that "looks cool" to me rather than built to the rules.

How would an army built around a bunch of Kataphron Destroyers, a blob of Kastellan Robots, and 2 Dunecrawlers do on the tabletop?

Sounds good. You can get a lot of mileage out of Lucius with those units.

Here was my list:

Spoiler:

The idea is to spend 2 CP to reserve your Destroyers and Robots to protect them from being picked off. Then on your second turn, you drop them in a safe spot, teleport your HQ using Solar Flare, and lay waste to their army. You can probably cut 3 Destroyers, 4 Raiders, 2 Vanguard, and the toys on the Inquisitor to fit in double Crawlers.

Consider magnetizing the Destroyers so you can make them Breachers.

**Ideasweasel**

What do you think of my mars list

Batallion

Cawl WLT
Manipulus AP/FB WLT

3x5 vanguard
2x 10 jazz hands priests
3x5 raiders
2x bombers
3x beleros tanks
2x drills

Cawl moving Castle pushes up. Raiders screen.

Priest WOM Drill hammer drops. Who needs to play the mission when your opponent has joined the jazz hands glee club

BZZZZZZZT

**Suzuteo**

Ideasweasel wrote:
What do you think of my mars list

Batallion

Cawl WLT
Manipulus AP/FB WLT

3x5 vanguard
2x 10 jazz hands priests
3x5 raiders
2x bombers
3x beleros tanks
2x drills

Cawl moving Castle pushes up. Raiders screen.

Priest WOM Drill hammer drops. Who needs to play the mission when your opponent has joined the jazz hands glee club

BZZZZZZZT

You only need one unit of Jazz Hands since only one unit can use that AP2 stratagem at a time.

2x3 Grav Destroyers with Daedalosus also make a great strike package for Mars.

If the Archaeopters are magnetized, consider using the Stratoraptor variant instead. It's pretty good for Mars.

**Ideasweasel**

I suppose that’s a good point. I could probably cut a drill and squad of zappy hands.

I only own one drill anyway so that saves me money. I really wish there was a way I could have all the fun of Mars with effective delivery of fulgrite priests too.

The gunship fliers don’t really appeal to me as much. Mostly because the mortal wound output has been so useful from the fusilaves.

My ideal list would be able to combine everything and then do mortal wounds in the movement, shooting, charge, and fight phases

But I haven’t quite worked out a way to squeeze it all in. I love the bombers, love the raiders, and want all the priests lol. I considered just ditching ironstriders and the Disintegrators but wasn’t sure what sort of fire base to bring

Any thoughts Suzuteo? My local meta has seen a shift. Where as before quality AT was gold, now it’s mass volume of fire to deal with necrons etc but still being able to drop knights, iron hand dreads, Stygies Admech breacher lists, harlequins, deathguard etc. Surprisingly enough I’m not really bothered so much about marines in general

**Suzuteo**

@Ideasweasel
You could Forgeworld Soup like me:

Spoiler:

I guess particular to your situation, you would drop the Ballistarii and Skitarii in favor of Jazz Hands. Maybe even go Patrol and drop a Disintegrator for double Bombers?

How many Breachers do you own? You could add a Data-hoard with a Manipulus in charge. Move the Bombers to that detachment.

**Ideasweasel**

Zero kataphrons of any description just now. I know that they and fulgurite priests are a real force just now.

My collection is lacking in kataphrons and the steralizers sadly. Not sure if I want to buy those. And they aren’t cheap

I probably have to be realistic and choose something’s to drop

**Techpriest_**

It's that time of week again, a new video is up. This one took way longer than I expected to produce but it was a lot of fun to make. Comments and criticisms are always welcome, especially in this case as I wasn't sure how in depth I should go with certain things or if the format of this would be optimal.

Description: In this video we take a look at different ways to design a 500 point army list, whether it be a budget list, a midrange list, or an experimental list. This exercise is intend to get others thinking about how they'd approach building their first 500 point list, as opposed to being a collection of optimized lists. Each list tries to have a different Forge World option and unit composition for the benefit of diversity in possible builds.

In the next video we'll continue with different ways to build a 1,000 point army list.

**vecuu**

Are Duneriders Riders too expensive for most cargo? Is their durability too low?

Are 10man 3xCuliver Squads too weak of a payload?

**Suzuteo**

vecuu wrote:
Are Duneriders Riders too expensive for most cargo? Is their durability too low?

Are 10man 3xCuliver Squads too weak of a payload?

No, no, yes

Duneriders are still our cheapest transport, and they are pretty average compared to other armies' transports.

Their durability is fine. In fact, they are very good for protecting T3s and drawing fire from T6-7.

3x Calivers is pretty weak unless you're doing some Scarifying Weaponry build. I think the best cargo for a Boat right now is 10x Fulgurites. They do so much work in this meta and pair great with Raiders.

Ideasweasel wrote:
Zero kataphrons of any description just now. I know that they and fulgurite priests are a real force just now.

My collection is lacking in kataphrons and the steralizers sadly. Not sure if I want to buy those. And they aren’t cheap

I probably have to be realistic and choose something’s to drop

Sterylizors and Breachers are not necessary. But FWIW, 2x3 Raiders goes a very long way.

Definitely consider Forgeworld Soup though. Infiltrating the Boat with Fulgurites, paired with Raiders, is incredibly strong.

**Pomguo**

Mixed lists remain impossible for me - the national tourney circuit requires that different subfactions be painted differently, base rims etc aren't enough. And no way in hell am I repainting my army over and over each time the meta or my list changes haha.

So with that out of the way, what are modern pure Stygies lists looking like? I ran Stygies for a lot of 8th (after learning with Mars and then messing around with Graia gimmicks), but I think 9th's shorter board makes it seem even riskier for the pregame forward movement - seems like suiciding stuff into melee a lot of the time, or providing stepping stones for enemies to wrap and trap you (becoming immune to shooting or else wasting your CP), or just to get closer to your guns than they would have otherwise. And does Stygies still use the strat during Deployment (ie before you know who's going first) and then moves pregame (after you know who's going first)?

I've been running this rudimentary Mars list recently:

Spoiler:

The sniping is mostly because there's a lot of Sisters players in this city and I need to be able to remove Imagifiers asap. Otherwise it's fairly standard:

FNP Breachers roll up to mid-board objectives with the Manipulus in tow.

Servitors hang back to deny deepstrikes, hold an objective, and score Deploy Scramblers on turn 3.

X-101 walks forward from the deployment edge and scores Deploy Scramblers turn 1, then trundles over hiding and trying to help score Engage on All Fronts.

Skystalkers drop into the enemy deployment zone to score Deploy Scramblers turn 2, then try to hide or occasionally finish off a survivor on an enemy objective, while hoping to help score Engage.

Belleros try to pick off softer hiding stuff or just add weight of fire to priority targets.

Ironstriders stay as hidden as possible and then act as the main firepower battery.

Onager helps out where it can, especially against jump pack stuff.

Dunerider moves onto an objective with 5 Vanguard inside it, who get out for free when it dies or when an ObSec unit takes that objective from the boat.

10 Corpuscarii sit in Strategic Reserves for 1CP to countershoot-then-1-inch-charge anything attacking the Belleros Boats, otherwise can help score Engage and/or fire off some nasty AP2 to stuff in the middle where possible.

The final Vanguard squad is also in Strategic Reserves for no extra CP to provide a small amount of targeted overcharged plasma, has been hugely helpful to finish off 2W marines holding objectives here and there.

The Raiders...

Well, I guess I'd appreciate advice on the Raiders. They haven't been very useful in most of my games so I assume I'm just using them wrong. In my last game I ran them up pregame to hide behind some stuff, then got first turn and so was able to block off an objective from my opponent turn 1. They then immediately died, but they were able to stop them moving onto that objective. I guess if I had two I could've repeated this on turn 2? Unless they were move blocked from doing so themselves, of course. But when I go second, they just end up hiding, being seen, then dying for no reason. I guess I'd appreciate a basic thought process of what you aim to do with them pregame and turn one, depending on whether you go first or second!

**Razerous**

The raiders, for the points, blocking an objective turn 1 & requiring non-trivial firepower is pretty decent?

The mobiliy and semi good firepower seem strong.

Just think of a player with a blast-profile unit, be wary of being charged. Now, before you even deploy, the mere presence of these fast mobile units is disrupting your opponents plans.

Well worth it!

**Ideasweasel**

I’m not sure this is good advice but I can tell you where they have been useful in my games.

Where I have gone first I have been able to move 24” and box units in the opponents deployment zone or restrict movement.

Getting them up and onto objectives if I want to support them with juicier targets. Then my opponent might not have the firepower to deal with everything

Using them as a stung out screen for board edges to stop reserves coming in a preferable board edge

As a character bully for T3/T4 enemy characters.

And both going first and second - stretching them out across the board to create distance between my gunline and enemy melee units.

I had a game versus a slaanesh player who credited two squads of 5 dogs on hammer and anvil style deployment as single handedly winning me the game. Was able to screen out and create enough distance and time to hose him with gunfire

I imagine the more tactically minded amongst us will be able to correct me or add to the discussion but that’s when I’ve found them effective.

It should be noted I’m never bringing less than 10. Often 15 in 3 squads of 5. I’d wager using only 3 might be tricker for them to make their use known