40k Rumours - Space Marines, Black Templars vs Orks box and Ghazghkull - UPDATED OP 21.9.19

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**Crimson**

Racerguy180 wrote:

Breaking the game is still a dick move.

Yes. And that's why some of us do not appreciate GW doing just that.

**H.B.M.C.**

It's amazing the difference a couple of head swaps can make.

**Grimskul**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's amazing the difference a couple of head swaps can make.

Wow, the difference for Shrike is night and day. I think with a better paintjob that it will look even better. I actually don't mind Ferrios original head, but the helmeted options looks good too.

**ingtaer**

Wow, those models do look so much better with helmets, that Shrike especially almost makes me want to go out and buy it.

People need to calm down in this thread, remember the rules (especially be polite) and to report not retort.

**insaniak**

Yeah, while I don't have a problem with the emo head, the Shrike model does look cool with the beakie helm.

That's a pretty savage mould misalignment on his right leg, though.

**casvalremdeikun**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's amazing the difference a couple of head swaps can make.

I love both of those. Great job!

**Voss**

Grimskul wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's amazing the difference a couple of head swaps can make.

Wow, the difference for Shrike is night and day. I think with a better paintjob that it will look even better. I actually don't mind Ferrios original head, but the helmeted options looks good too.

Still too busy IMO (far, far too much junk for a 'stealth guy'), but I've yet to see a SM model that can't be improved by putting a helmet on.
He'd be good as Shrike, Collector of Random Trinkets, however

**BrianDavion**

Voss wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's amazing the difference a couple of head swaps can make.

Wow, the difference for Shrike is night and day. I think with a better paintjob that it will look even better. I actually don't mind Ferrios original head, but the helmeted options looks good too.

Still too busy IMO (far, far too much junk for a 'stealth guy'), but I've yet to see a SM model that can't be improved by putting a helmet on.
He'd be good as Shrike, Collector of Random Trinkets, however

collecting random trinkets is kind of a thing ravens do

**tneva82**

Racerguy180 wrote:
you obviously dont know what a shoal is then.

a bunch of fish swimming together....like mindless followers doing what someone else is doing just cuz.

Breaking the game is still a dick move.

How is it breaking the game though? GW has made abudantly clear that you can affect units from different codexes with your stratagem. They specifically spell it out! It's not "can you or can't you?". GW flat out says you can. As long as keywords match the codex unit and stratagems are is irrelevant by GW's own words! And it's not like this is recent thing created but is almost as old as 8th ed so they have had plenty of time to change that FAQ yet haven't.

**endlesswaltz123**

To be fair, everyone moaning about the strat, it's very Fluffy that sallies can take one for the team for all imperium units.

**An Actual Englishman**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
To be fair, everyone moaning about the strat, it's very Fluffy that sallies can take one for the team for all imperium units.

Fluffy =/= balanced or fun though.

It does not seem like a fun stratagem to play against because it basically robs me of a phase of the game.

Either way let's leave Self Sacrifice there for the moment, we don't know how it'll pan out with FAQs, other stratagems etc and people are getting riled up over it.

**BrianDavion**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
endlesswaltz123 wrote:
To be fair, everyone moaning about the strat, it's very Fluffy that sallies can take one for the team for all imperium units.

Fluffy =/= balanced or fun though.

It does not seem like a fun stratagem to play against because it basically robs me of a phase of the game.

Either way let's leave Self Sacrifice there for the moment, we don't know how it'll pan out with FAQs, other stratagems etc and people are getting riled up over it.

besides only robs you of a phase in a hypothetical situation where you have your entire army blobbed up around a tree with a single unit hidden behind the tree just ahead of your army. I'm sure people'll manage to cheese it but it won't be as easy and effortless as people seem to think it will. and doing ti every round will eat through CPs. and Marines are pretty CP hungry now that the new 'dex is out, they have some GREAT strats.

**tneva82**

You don't need to protect entire army though...just key units. It's even better than grot screen as a) it protects multiple units b) chaff protecting sally character that is target of stratagem doesn't have to be close to character. Just closer to enemy that character is.

Enemy

Scout squad(preferably in cover, ideally out of los)

Character
Key units

Until you kill scout(s)(possibly out of los) character and key units are immune to shooting.

Better than grot screen that is good stratagem already

**Irbis**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's amazing the difference a couple of head swaps can make.
I love both of those. Great job!

...I really this is defective model and not a good representation how it actually looks, but you can see the same lines on GW picture in places

**H.B.M.C.**

To be fair I don't actually disagree with you, and a helmetless Farseer was made by a trainee sculptor many moons ago (along with a bunch of stuff that sadly never saw the light of day).

My point was more that you posted a pic of something that GW didn't make in a discussion about GW making Seers without helmets. It's dishonest, because it's not something GW made.

**Mandragola**

Skrike with the helmet on looks amazing. I think the different head angle also helps, since it makes him look like he's about to move, not just standing around sulking.

The iron father head swap is less of an improvement, mainly because there was nothing too much wrong with it to start with. Does look good though.

**H.B.M.C.**

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Iron Father's head either, but it does look cool with the helmet.

**SeanDrake**

BrianDavion wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
endlesswaltz123 wrote:
To be fair, everyone moaning about the strat, it's very Fluffy that sallies can take one for the team for all imperium units.

Fluffy =/= balanced or fun though.

It does not seem like a fun stratagem to play against because it basically robs me of a phase of the game.

Either way let's leave Self Sacrifice there for the moment, we don't know how it'll pan out with FAQs, other stratagems etc and people are getting riled up over it.

besides only robs you of a phase in a hypothetical situation where you have your entire army blobbed up around a tree with a single unit hidden behind the tree just ahead of your army. I'm sure people'll manage to cheese it but it won't be as easy and effortless as people seem to think it will. and doing ti every round will eat through CPs. and Marines are pretty CP hungry now that the new 'dex is out, they have some GREAT strats.

Nope it’s broke as will be proved when GW fix it in a couple of weeks, probably, maybe, I guess it depends we are talking about GW.

**H.B.M.C.**

Any'a y'all remember an old psychic power called 'Siren'. Those were fun days.

Dunno why it came to mind.

**Platuan4th**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Any'a y'all remember an old psychic power called 'Siren'. Those were fun days.

Dunno why it came to mind.

Also, Lash of Fzorgle.

Is that the actual helmet from Shrike's hip or is the detail carefully trimmed and added to the upgrade sprues Beakie?

**Warhams-77**

Selfcontrol wrote:
French long time lurker here. If I were you, I would definitely take seriously what Kikasstout (the french forumer) says.

Long before the release of Codex SM V2 he accurately guessed the Combat Doctrines (at the time, he told us that it was going to be a system where you get a buff to either heavy weapons AP or Rapid Fire / Assault weapons AP or melee AP and that you had to "choose" which buff to use), the number of stratagems and the release date (August). He told us these informations as soon as June if I remember correctly. He also told us at the same time that each First Founding Chapter was going to get its own supplement, relics and stratagems on top of several new units and not just the stuff from Shadowspear.

Many of us didn't really believe him because it kinda sounded like Christmas for SM players, especially after seeing what Codex CSM V2 ended up being. In the end, he was right !

Although he didn't describe perfectly the Combat Doctrines (he described them at first as some kind of boost that you have to choose at the beginning of each battle round and not a progressive system), it is very clear to us now that he has good sources regarding upcoming GW releases.

He also gave us several hints regarding the upcoming Drukhari vs Eldar thing, in Psychic Awakening.

Very glad to hear this

And welcome to Dakka

**An Actual Englishman**

Selfcontrol wrote:
French long time lurker here. If I were you, I would definitely take seriously what Kikasstout (the french forumer) says.

Long before the release of Codex SM V2 he accurately guessed the Combat Doctrines (at the time, he told us that it was going to be a system where you get a buff to either heavy weapons AP or Rapid Fire / Assault weapons AP or melee AP and that you had to "choose" which buff to use), the number of stratagems and the release date (August). He told us these informations as soon as June if I remember correctly. He also told us at the same time that each First Founding Chapter was going to get its own supplement, relics and stratagems on top of several new units and not just the stuff from Shadowspear.

Many of us didn't really believe him because it kinda sounded like Christmas for SM players, especially after seeing what Codex CSM V2 ended up being. In the end, he was right !

Although he didn't describe perfectly the Combat Doctrines (he described them at first as some kind of boost that you have to choose at the beginning of each battle round and not a progressive system), it is very clear to us now that he has good sources regarding upcoming GW releases.

He also gave us several hints regarding the upcoming Drukhari vs Eldar thing, in Psychic Awakening.

Yea this is great news, it's nice to have a reliable rumour monger for a change!

Is there anything I missed given French isn't my native tongue?

**Jidmah**

Platuan4th wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Any'a y'all remember an old psychic power called 'Siren'. Those were fun days.

Dunno why it came to mind.

Also, Lash of Fzorgle.

Is that the actual helmet from Shrike's hip or is the detail carefully trimmed and added to the upgrade sprues Beakie?

That's the helmet from his hip.

**Selfcontrol**

Is there anything I missed given French isn't my native tongue?

No, you didn't.

Keep in mind that there might be errors in what he said. From what I red, it's pretty clear to me that he does not have a direct access to new minis / codex / supplements etc but he knows someone that is clearly aware of what's going. You can't simply guess release date, new rules, minis, supplements, etc, 2 months before said release

But yep, according to him, it's going to be an Orks vs SW box and BT will get their own rules during Psychic Awakening and not in the IF supplement.

**Psychocouac**

I agree with my fellow baguette up there. He also gave us the executionner heavy lazor and eleminator las carabin weapon profiles in advance if i remember correctly.

But i don't remember if he said that BT rules will be in the IF supplement and with a special treatment after in a Psychic awakening book or if the BT rules are missing in the IF supplement and added in the P.A. book. We'll know very soon anyway.

**Binabik15**

tneva82 wrote:
Binabik15 wrote:
I actually love the idea of a Salamander squad shielding their guard allies with their hulking Ceramite-clad frames. Compared to, say, Minotaurs, who'd strap them on as ablative armour or Flesh Tearers who don't actually have allies, only tiny bits of meat to wade through.

Of course if there's IG allies around what probably happens is that IG troopers cover salamander character who covers everybody else so until you clear the cheap chaff from front(preferably out of LOS to make that hard) character and everybody behind him are nearly 100% immune to shooting. Not even snipers able to target the units behind the character.

Sure, I just meant thematically. The rule seems to be written badly or be stupidly broken if it was intended that way. I like good guys Salamanders protecting the normal humans.

I like the Shrike with helmet, but as I said at his reveal, the sculpt is SO stupidly over the top that I like him/love to make fun of him, anyway. I'm not sure which it is. The IH dude looks better without a helmet, or maybe with a more ornate one? This one is a bit boring.

**Mandragola**

I also have no issue with the salamander guys protecting non-salamanders. It's literally the thing they're famous for doing.

I'm not that sure who else they should protect though. I guess if my Crimson Fists super doctrine is rubbish then I could get some salamanders to tank for me. Do guard have particularly shooty infantry though? It seems to me you'd often be better off just taking things like centurions.

**tneva82**

HWS teams provide cheap lascannons. Or howabout ad mech kataphract's?

**Jidmah**

So what exactly is preventing me from putting a salamanders techmarine gunner or something in the middle of an imperial army and protect everything that is not closest from all shooting?

**Not Online!!!**

Jidmah wrote:
So what exactly is preventing me from putting a salamanders techmarine gunner or something in the middle of an imperial army and protect everything that is not closest from all shooting?

You play orks?

Also with buyable fortification that will be hillarious.