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 Octopoid wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I could see a brutal 4 way too. Tau vs IG vs GSC vs DG.

With no marine faction taking up a million pages with unit entries there'd be enough space for 4 factions I reckon.

But where will they put all the name generators?

Good point. "Bubonicus Slimey" isn't going to name himself now is he? If DG feature in this book their entire focus will be 8 pages of name generators - ranging from Nurglings to Heralds to Marines. Everyone get's to be a "Squelchy Buttstinker".

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I could see a brutal 4 way too. Tau vs IG vs GSC vs DG.

With no marine faction taking up a million pages with unit entries there'd be enough space for 4 factions I reckon.

But where will they put all the name generators?

we know we're getting another book with 4 factions in it. and if admech, knights, deamons and chaos knights can all share a book, Death Guard, Tau, Guard and GSC should be just fine

Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I could see a brutal 4 way too. Tau vs IG vs GSC vs DG.

With no marine faction taking up a million pages with unit entries there'd be enough space for 4 factions I reckon.

But where will they put all the name generators?

we know we're getting another book with 4 factions in it. and if admech, knights, deamons and chaos knights can all share a book, Death Guard, Tau, Guard and GSC should be just fine

Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

AdMech need Manipulous, Skorpius Disintergrater, Dunerider, 2x flyer, 2x Serberys and 2x Pterix units to have datasheets. They're going to take a heft chunk out of it.
More if the secret cults mentioned make them Dark mech...

Voss wrote:
Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

"Small" factions? Surely we want all factions to see an equal amount of content, regardless of their size? It could be argued, in fact, that the smallest factions deserve the most content? To bring them up to the level of others.

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I could see a brutal 4 way too. Tau vs IG vs GSC vs DG.

With no marine faction taking up a million pages with unit entries there'd be enough space for 4 factions I reckon.

But where will they put all the name generators?

we know we're getting another book with 4 factions in it. and if admech, knights, deamons and chaos knights can all share a book, Death Guard, Tau, Guard and GSC should be just fine

Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

GW can do as much or as little as it likes - there is certainly vastly more variety and units unseen on the game table for Knights and their support elements than there is in any Marine Chapter of a mere thousand individuals - and they constantly have new units lavished upon them and are indulged with supplements.....

As others have noted with no need to cram it full of yet more reprinted Marine datasheets there is plenty of room for intersting stff, lots of lore.....

 Tastyfish wrote:

AdMech need Manipulous, Skorpius Disintergrater, Dunerider, 2x flyer, 2x Serberys and 2x Pterix units to have datasheets.

10 units known right now.
The flyer is 3 builds, not 2.

They're going to take a heft chunk out of it.
More if the secret cults mentioned make them Dark mech...

I'd think the 'secret cults mentioned' are referring to the Xenarites rather than Dark Mechanicus. Stygies has been getting a lot of attention lately and they're DEFINITELY going hard after Blackstone and Necron sites for the effects it has on the Warp.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Voss wrote:
Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

"Small" factions? Surely we want all factions to see an equal amount of content, regardless of their size? It could be argued, in fact, that the smallest factions deserve the most content? To bring them up to the level of others.

Argue whatever you want, it isn't going to happen. Some factions are factually smaller than others, and for the foreseeable future, will stay that way, regardless of any rambling about 'deserves.'

We _know_ admech is getting a couple units (and has to back update a couple existing units), because they've been shown off.
For the tau book, regardless of whoever else is in it, it gets Shadowsun. The end.
The ork and probably space wolf book gets the standard marine retread, plus Ghaz and Makari, the end.

Admech gets a bunch of stuff with that book, daemons will might get backfilled datasheets again as well. But at this moment, that's the limit of whats coming with the PA books we know anything about. Whatever filler they use to pad out the rest of 90-odd pages is up to GW, but if every single PA release so far is anything to go by, it won't amount to much beyond a few pages of strats, relics, etc.

Any preferences about what 'should' happen aren't PA N&R in any way at all.

 Tastyfish wrote:

AdMech need Manipulous, Skorpius Disintergrater, Dunerider, 2x flyer, 2x Serberys and 2x Pterix units to have datasheets. They're going to take a heft chunk out of it.

Yes, indeed they will, about 10% of the pages will go just to Ad Mech datasheets. Hence why they're tossing in the two tiny knight factions: they won't eat much page count.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Voss wrote:
Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

"Small" factions? Surely we want all factions to see an equal amount of content, regardless of their size? It could be argued, in fact, that the smallest factions deserve the most content? To bring them up to the level of others.

yeah, not sure why knights shouldn't get anything because "they only have 6 units!" you can do an aweful lot in a half dozen pages to really add varity. and factions with few models really benifit from having more ways to employ them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I could see a brutal 4 way too. Tau vs IG vs GSC vs DG.

With no marine faction taking up a million pages with unit entries there'd be enough space for 4 factions I reckon.

But where will they put all the name generators?

we know we're getting another book with 4 factions in it. and if admech, knights, deamons and chaos knights can all share a book, Death Guard, Tau, Guard and GSC should be just fine

Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

GW can do as much or as little as it likes - there is certainly vastly more variety and units unseen on the game table for Knights and their support elements than there is in any Marine Chapter of a mere thousand individuals - and they constantly have new units lavished upon them and are indulged with supplements.....

As others have noted with no need to cram it full of yet more reprinted Marine datasheets there is plenty of room for intersting stff, lots of lore.....

except that Knights aren't going to, likely be getting new UNITS instead they'll get new strats, relics etc. you know the same thing everyone's gotten in PA. Voss seems to be arguing that because of the low model count of the Knights codex they somehow don't "deserve" these new things.

 Tastyfish wrote:

Voss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I could see a brutal 4 way too. Tau vs IG vs GSC vs DG.

With no marine faction taking up a million pages with unit entries there'd be enough space for 4 factions I reckon.

But where will they put all the name generators?

we know we're getting another book with 4 factions in it. and if admech, knights, deamons and chaos knights can all share a book, Death Guard, Tau, Guard and GSC should be just fine

Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

AdMech need Manipulous, Skorpius Disintergrater, Dunerider, 2x flyer, 2x Serberys and 2x Pterix units to have datasheets. They're going to take a heft chunk out of it.
More if the secret cults mentioned make them Dark mech...

That's 9 pages at most, maybe less. Waaaaaay less than marines got copy & paste datasheets they already had. They can add 8 pages per knight faction and have pages left over. And 8 pages is pretty much what everybody gets minus copy&paste datasheets.

Question isn't about quantity of pages but quality of rules they get

Was there ever a statement implying a limit of factions per book or was that an assumption? Engine War has 4 factions, do we have reason to believe a PA book couldn't have 5 or even more provided the factions were small enough? (Assassins certainly doesn't take up much space!)

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Was there ever a statement implying a limit of factions per book or was that an assumption? Engine War has 4 factions, do we have reason to believe a PA book couldn't have 5 or even more provided the factions were small enough? (Assassins certainly doesn't take up much space!)

well it doesn't matter how many models a faction has. because the norm for these books has been 1 page of strats, 1 page of relics, 1 page of random names, 1 page of mono faction bonuses etc. now obviously there's variation here but just because custodes has less minis avalaible then Necrons doesn't mean they'll be garenteed less book pages. just for example.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Was there ever a statement implying a limit of factions per book or was that an assumption? Engine War has 4 factions, do we have reason to believe a PA book couldn't have 5 or even more provided the factions were small enough? (Assassins certainly doesn't take up much space!)

The more factions they include, the more pages have to be dedicated to name generators.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Was there ever a statement implying a limit of factions per book or was that an assumption? Engine War has 4 factions, do we have reason to believe a PA book couldn't have 5 or even more provided the factions were small enough? (Assassins certainly doesn't take up much space!)

The more factions they include, the more pages have to be dedicated to name generators.

oddly I don't mind name generators in some cases, it gives ideas as to the culture and naming conventions of the army.

Heck I'm oddly looking forward to the Ork name generators, simply cause I bet it'll have some hilarious name combos

Why do so many people seem so sure that the Imperial faction in The Greater Good is going to be IG? None of that video really screams Imperial Guard to me. GW loves playing up the defining stereotypes of the respective factions, and I saw none of these for IG. Nothing about holding ground, nothing about grinding things to dust with artillery, nothing about military discipline, just something about faith in the emperor which is ubiquitous for all Imperial factions, but defining for a few.

Furthermore there are the images. The Tau speaker is very clearly an ethereal, and the background images are very clearly battle suits and fire warriors. The gene stealer cult one has a four-armed figure with a dagger and rending claws and a literal genestealer. What does the imperial image have? Not as clear as the other two, granted, but there are only a few Imperial factions that make extensive use of purity seals and scrolls to the degree present in this video, and most of them (Space Marine varieties) are accounted for in other PA books. It certainly seems to imply the Ecclesiarchy more than it does IG.

Beyond even that, Sisters (Ecclesiarchy) are still waiting on a significant wave of models to be released, including their primary HQ, the all-important Imagifier, and models that bear a striking resemblance to one of the figures in the background of the Imperial message (Repentia). Tell me it would not be a good idea to renew the sisters hype by releasing the next wave of models along side a PA book that features expanded rules for the Sisters.

Not saying it is a sure thing, and I understand and agree that IG deserves SOMETHING, but at this point, with the information we have, I think IG being in this book is wishful thinking.

EDIT: I stand corrected. Please ignore me.

Voss wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Voss wrote:
Those aren't really comparable to me. As far as content goes, Ad mech is at the same level as DG and GSC, knights aren't (even combined they aren't), and daemons should be way beyond them, and tau and guard definitely are.

To put another way, the combined knights are paper thin compared even to small factions like ad mech or DG. Its easy to do a 4 faction book with them.
With guard or tau, let alone both? plus more stuff? Yeah, no.

"Small" factions? Surely we want all factions to see an equal amount of content, regardless of their size? It could be argued, in fact, that the smallest factions deserve the most content? To bring them up to the level of others.

Argue whatever you want, it isn't going to happen. Some factions are factually smaller than others, and for the foreseeable future, will stay that way, regardless of any rambling about 'deserves.'

We _know_ admech is getting a couple units (and has to back update a couple existing units), because they've been shown off.
For the tau book, regardless of whoever else is in it, it gets Shadowsun. The end.
The ork and probably space wolf book gets the standard marine retread, plus Ghaz and Makari, the end.

Admech gets a bunch of stuff with that book, daemons will might get backfilled datasheets again as well. But at this moment, that's the limit of whats coming with the PA books we know anything about. Whatever filler they use to pad out the rest of 90-odd pages is up to GW, but if every single PA release so far is anything to go by, it won't amount to much beyond a few pages of strats, relics, etc.

Any preferences about what 'should' happen aren't PA N&R in any way at all.

I just find it odd you think a faction will get less from PA because it "feels" like a smaller faction. GW are pushing Ad Mech as a proper faction. They have been since 8th to be honest as they've probably enjoyed the second most releases of any faction only to Marines.

Each faction will probably get relics, stratagems and WL traits. Beyond that is anyone's guess. I could see an Ork-specific thing like what Tyranids received. I could also see another Ork unit (other than Ghaz) given that there's a rumour engine of an Ork boot as yet unsolved.

IG and Tau will likely get the exact same amount of content as DG or Ad Mech or potentially even Knights. They have larger model lines, but GW don't seem to use that as a defining metric in terms of rules content.

How do you define smaller? Marine chapters are a thousand soldiers.

Orks are trillions strong, guard is billions strong. Craftworlds are 10s of millions.

Marines are the smallest factions in the game and get the most attention.

Hellebore wrote:
How do you define smaller? Marine chapters are a thousand soldiers.

Orks are trillions strong, guard is billions strong. Craftworlds are 10s of millions.

Marines are the smallest factions in the game and get the most attention.

Well, certainly not background-based. If writers wanted Orks to be down to a couple of hundred and the galaxy be filled with trillions of Marines, it'd be done with a brush stroke.

The nerd-marketing (e.g. fluff) for the plastic toys isn't the benchmark to look at.

Hellebore wrote:
How do you define smaller? Marine chapters are a thousand soldiers.

Orks are trillions strong, guard is billions strong. Craftworlds are 10s of millions.

Marines are the smallest factions in the game and get the most attention.

size of the model line in this case.

And yeah that doesn't say much, Admech and Knights are both popular up and coming armies that GW has made a point to expand when given the oppertunity. it wasn't that long ago that Imperial Knights where a single kit. now there are three kits. with a fair bit of varity among them. (fun fact BTW once you omit characters and kits they share with vanilla marines... Imperial Knights has as many unique kits as Grey Knights and Custodes)

My luck that the two least interesting factions (Sisters and GSC) would feature with Tau. Just pray they don't do a boxed set then, because those factions are going to be hard to sell since nobody plays them in my country.

My only hope is that there's a GSC faction component that can be alternatively assembled as IG.

Hoenstly, I've no intreast in a GSC army but they're hardly unintreasting as a faction

Are those name generators different from the ones in KT?

 Jidmah wrote:
Are those name generators different from the ones in KT?

I would have to check. even if not remember not every 40k player plays kill team so someone out there finds it useful I'm sure

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/28/a-war-for-hearts-and-mindsgw-homepage-post-2/

Last faction confirmed as Imperial Guard.

Edit: Let's revise the list!

PA5 = IG / GSC / Tau
PA6 = Orks / Space Wolves (not confirmed)
PA7 = AdMech / Imperial Knights / Daemons / Chaos Knights

That leaves:

Custodes
Deathwatch
Sisters
Harlequins
Necrons
Death Guard

Bummer, although I did have the feeling earlier that DG being in that book made way too much thematic sense for GW to have actually done it!

I love it! three similar (as in basically humanoid, non-enhanced) forces, which follow similar ideologies but are completely different.

 ikeulhu wrote:
Bummer, although I did have the feeling earlier that DG being in that book made way too much thematic sense for GW to have actually done it!

Guard make sense thematically too.

Death Guard always felt a bit too shoehorned in, potentially.

With Death Guard, I would have wondered what exactly caused Mortarion to be so proactive all of a sudden. He invades real space and establishes his mini empire in the Scourge Stars, shortly after he invades Ultramar and now he invades Tau Space too?

Altough I guess it makes sense with Typhus who has always been a workaholic.



Is it just me or do these new artworks of Shadowsun kinda look as if she had another guy in the exact same stealth suit standing right behind her?

At this point, we can discard new miniatures for cult or star, right?

zamerion wrote:
At this point, we can discard new miniatures for cult or star, right?

The only Cult mini we might see is a separate release for the Kelermorph. Can't get that box he came in anymore I don't think, barring your store having some left.

We know Shadowsun is the big hero for this book though.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ikeulhu wrote:
Bummer, although I did have the feeling earlier that DG being in that book made way too much thematic sense for GW to have actually done it!

Guard make sense thematically too.

Death Guard always felt a bit too shoehorned in, potentially.

Death Guard would feel incredibly shoehorned into a book whose fluff is all about winning over worlds through philosophy and ideology.