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terry wrote:
for all people complaining about the weapons, these guys are royal guards, ofcourse they get the best of the best. Let's just wait until we see the normal rank and file units and weapons before complaining about to much magic. Fantasy always had magic and entire units with magic weapons

Lizardmen Temple Guard are bodyguards to the strongest magicians in the Warhammer World, and have hats made from skulls and halberds made from stone, wood and gold. Despite the fact that they are bipedal dinosaur people, they look more grounded than the new Ice Guard.
The text mentions that they themselves channel the magic, which makes the ability to control magic (and in the Warhammer universe especially, controlling is the tricky bit) pretty common. I guess it fits with later additions like Doomfire Warlocks and Sisters of the Thorn, but, well, those are Elves. (And admittedly, I never liked them much either.)

Although the fact that they are just called "Ice Guard" is at least a good sign in terms of naming conventions.

it's still early, plenty of time to rename them to something like Frostwrath Freezedervishes.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
it's still early, plenty of time to rename them to something like Frostwrath Freezedervishes.

Don't give them ideas.

Lord Damocles wrote:Kislev dudes (and dudettes) with stahlrim weapons and ice magic sounds like the Old World is getting Age-of-Sigmarified.

That's the goal right there. They tried tossing the frogs into the pot of already boiling water and saw how many jumped out. The plan now is to get us back in the comfy pot and turn up the heat slowly until they have us cooked. Retconning AOS into the Old World seems to be their method.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The detail on those imply it'll be a 28mm game and not 15mm Warmaster or whatever.

You kidding, have you MET the fandom? It won't sway people at all. Hell, they could show pics of the new models next to old ones to show scale and you'll STILL have people on this board saying it's going to be a Warmaster relaunch.



My first response was optimism mixed with some pragmatism and reassurances that I still play 6th if this winds up not being my thing. THIS press release tells me I need to work on finding more 6th Ed. players...

Obviously this is only an initial sneak peek at things and concept art etc. But im expecting GW to do what they should have done instead of creating AoS.

Rather than blowing up the setting, they should have brought in the AoS style mechanics but expand and explore new factions. I was expecting the End Times to result in a very very narrow win for the “good” side but leaving massive parts of the old world devastated. That would have allowed GW to move some of the faction design forward and re explore old factions like Chaos Dwarves and Kislev.

I am expecting “the old world” to be AoS mechanics but using the old world setting and factions.

Sunno 782431 10752281 wrote:
I am expecting “the old world” to be AoS mechanics but using the old world setting and factions.

Having models operate in units with ranks and flanks again will be a pretty big mechanical change.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
You’ve heard of recurve bow? Here is tricurve bow. Is better. Is 50% more curve. Horn and sinew is good for bow; better is horn, sinew, and magic bear snot. Bow is shoot the arrow good.

See arctic cable-backed bows: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable-backed_bow

 lord_blackfang wrote:

dyndraig wrote:
This seems really tone-deaf from GW, you would suspect they would lead with something a bit more safe and established to lure in the grogs.

As you can plainly see, there is a large pool of players who will defend GW no matter what. Probably have a bank of both "WHFB was always high magic" and "WHFB was always low magic" essays ready to deploy depending on which way GW goes.

All they need to do is post the White Dwarf article that explains that WHFB was designed to be able to support BOTH. GW has always designed the setting with the philosophy that it's designed to be what the players need it to be in regards to high/middle/low fantasy. They even specifically used the Empire as an example. The closer you are to Altdorf, the higher you get with the farther, poorer provinces being low Fantasy to the point that magic may as well not exist.

 Karak Norn Clansman wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
You’ve heard of recurve bow? Here is tricurve bow. Is better. Is 50% more curve. Horn and sinew is good for bow; better is horn, sinew, and magic bear snot. Bow is shoot the arrow good.

See arctic cable-backed bows: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable-backed_bow

Yeah, only these are obviously unstrung. If the gals in question end up having proper Hunnic/Tatar/Turkic bows I'd be over the roof, but as things are they visually are the closest to compound bows with no compound elements - with those two usleless spiky things added with no practical or aesthetic value.

 BertBert wrote:
To be fair, Total War also did this. Just look at that Bretonnian unit with glowing swords as an example. They already turned the dial up to eleven, so it's not entirely unwarranted.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/8/80/Screenshot_%28995%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20190806034354

The Holy Wardens of La Maisontaal basically took weapons off Grail Knights. There's also the glowing weapons of the Grail Knights and the special ones that follow the Fey Enchantress.

I'm very confused about how a female ice magic warrior is politically correct.

 Argive wrote:
"go go politicaly correct warrior ice chicks yeah!!!"

Says more about you than it says about the model.
Bis.

Loved the old kieslev stuff so hoping we see more like that.
Only plus side is they like making bigger stuff, so bear cavalry could finally be a thing.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Lizardmen Temple Guard are bodyguards to the strongest magicians in the Warhammer World, and have hats made from skulls and halberds made from stone, wood and gold. Despite the fact that they are bipedal dinosaur people, they look more grounded than the new Ice Guard.

Aztec dinosaur people do not 'look more grounded' than some normal human female warriors with some ice stuck to their weapons.

At the end of the day is about having special effects. Thats what most people instantly recognise as magical.

It doesnt matter how intricate your weapons are , as long as they are steel. I mean, compare some of the concept arts of Black Guard from Age of Reckoning and their weaponry. In comparison Sisters of Averlorn have normal bows that are on fire.
But thats what make them magical.

I don't think this weapons are too much magical. I mean, normal weapons with a little of ice on top. We need to wait and see, but in fantasy having wizards putting the weapons of whole armies on fire wasn't uncommon.

If the game is nothing more than AOS set in the old world with the same AOS mechanics, the same pay to win free summoning, the same focus on min/max mortal wounds where possible, double turn existing, and the same emphasis on listbuiding wombo-combos, then it is still to me not anything I'd be interested in.

 Karak Norn Clansman wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
You’ve heard of recurve bow? Here is tricurve bow. Is better. Is 50% more curve. Horn and sinew is good for bow; better is horn, sinew, and magic bear snot. Bow is shoot the arrow good.

See arctic cable-backed bows: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable-backed_bow

Well, I stand corrected. Thanks for educating me!

...I would probably still replace them with some Fireforge Mongolian bows just to keep to the old aesthetic, though, and use these for Mantic or Frostgrave northerners.

I mean I [/i]would[/i] if I could justify spending $55 on 5 minis, which I can’t.

 gorgon wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Lizardmen Temple Guard are bodyguards to the strongest magicians in the Warhammer World, and have hats made from skulls and halberds made from stone, wood and gold. Despite the fact that they are bipedal dinosaur people, they look more grounded than the new Ice Guard.

Aztec dinosaur people do not 'look more grounded' than some normal human female warriors with some ice stuck to their weapons.

You'd think that much at least would be obvious!

As someone noted above, this is for an Elite unit - and seeing as Kislev is on the Front Lines in the battle against Chaos...

Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

terry wrote:
for all people complaining about the weapons, these guys are royal guards, ofcourse they get the best of the best. Let's just wait until we see the normal rank and file units and weapons before complaining about to much magic. Fantasy always had magic and entire units with magic weapons

Lizardmen Temple Guard are bodyguards to the strongest magicians in the Warhammer World, and have hats made from skulls and halberds made from stone, wood and gold. Despite the fact that they are bipedal dinosaur people, they look more grounded than the new Ice Guard.

No.

Sunno wrote:Obviously this is only an initial sneak peek at things and concept art etc. But im expecting GW to do what they should have done instead of creating AoS.

Rather than blowing up the setting, they should have brought in the AoS style mechanics but expand and explore new factions. I was expecting the End Times to result in a very very narrow win for the “good” side but leaving massive parts of the old world devastated. That would have allowed GW to move some of the faction design forward and re explore old factions like Chaos Dwarves and Kislev.

I am expecting “the old world” to be AoS mechanics but using the old world setting and factions.

People were mad when they introduced Ogre Kingdoms. What you suggest would of had them live streaming their suicides.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Chaos Knights, Ensorcelled Weapons
Grave Guard

Thx.
Both weapons look mundane if overly ornamented no?

Ornamented and plainish for the grave guard, the Chaos ones look their usual daemonic.

 Alpharius wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Lizardmen Temple Guard are bodyguards to the strongest magicians in the Warhammer World, and have hats made from skulls and halberds made from stone, wood and gold. Despite the fact that they are bipedal dinosaur people, they look more grounded than the new Ice Guard.

Aztec dinosaur people do not 'look more grounded' than some normal human female warriors with some ice stuck to their weapons.

You'd think that much at least would be obvious!

As someone noted above, this is for an Elite unit - and seeing as Kislev is on the Front Lines in the battle against Chaos...

Of course, every battlefield just needs that elite ice magic wielding unit in droves riiiight ?

"so josh as a core in my battalion I have 3 units of ice guard mc wolfy ice witch freezewraiths..."

I may be in the minority here but I actually agree with Coenus Scaldingus.
One is just a different species, the other is obviously magical.

 Argive wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Lizardmen Temple Guard are bodyguards to the strongest magicians in the Warhammer World, and have hats made from skulls and halberds made from stone, wood and gold. Despite the fact that they are bipedal dinosaur people, they look more grounded than the new Ice Guard.

Aztec dinosaur people do not 'look more grounded' than some normal human female warriors with some ice stuck to their weapons.

You'd think that much at least would be obvious!

As someone noted above, this is for an Elite unit - and seeing as Kislev is on the Front Lines in the battle against Chaos...

Of course, every battlefield just needs that elite ice magic wielding unit in droves riiiight ?

"so josh as a core in my battalion I have 3 units of ice guard mc wolfy ice witch freezewraiths..."

We don't even have the rules yet can you keep the straw in bales rather then creating a strawman?

pm713 wrote:I'm very confused about how a female ice magic warrior is politically correct.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Argive wrote:
"go go politicaly correct warrior ice chicks yeah!!!"

Says more about you than it says about the model.
Bis.

Because having 'ard looking Rus inspirered kossac blokes in furs would be "politcialy incorrect and racist" for today's times.
As if it should matter.... So here we are with ice wielding freezewitch subzero frosty frosts instead because design phiolosphy cant follow the OG source material. If you dont get it you dont get it...

 Argive wrote:

pm713 wrote:I'm very confused about how a female ice magic warrior is politically correct.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Argive wrote:
"go go politicaly correct warrior ice chicks yeah!!!"

Says more about you than it says about the model.
Bis.

Because having 'ard looking Rus inspirered kossac blokes in furs would be "politcialy incorrect and racist" for today's times.
As if it should matter.... So here we are with ice wielding freezewitch subzero frosty frosts instead because design phiolosphy cant follow the OG source material. If you dont get it you dont get it...

Good lord.. Kislevs lore may be scattered, but a little glance around here and there shows that the Ice Magic of Kislev has been purely women based. They even banned men from magic long ago because of the fear that a male ice caster will taint the ice flows.

A lot of it was back in Warhammer Fantasy RPG 2nd edition, but at the same time GW closely kept an eye to a lot of the RPG books.

Argive wrote:Because having 'ard looking Rus inspirered kossac blokes in furs would be "politcialy incorrect and racist" for today's times.

Oh, give it a rest. You know that's not true. In your own words:

If you dont get it you dont get it...

Don't talk about "source material" if you can't get your own facts straight.

pm713 wrote:
I'm very confused about how a female ice magic warrior is politically correct.

Because it's a case of Girl Power! triumphing over silly, insignificant things like physiology?

Though in all seriousness, this is far from the worst example of that sort of thing. Bows are definitely not the sort of weapons you'd want female warriors wielding (crossbows would make far more sense), but at least these appear to be shortbows, rather than full longbows/warbows. Spears and similar polearms are almost always solid choices and I'm assuming the swords/knives will be secondary or tertiary weapons, which is also perfectly reasonable.

That being said, I'm really not sold on the actual weapon designs. I'm not necessarily opposed to ice magic, but it's use here seems very odd. Look at the icicle-thing sprouting from the end of the arrow and ask yourself what the point of it is. It looks uneven (which will almost certainly reduce the stability of the arrow in flight) and I'm baffled as to what it's supposed to accomplish. Is it supposed to help the arrow penetrate armour? Because aside from the fact that it's pretty damn thick, penetrating armour is something that can be done by mundane arrows just by making them a different shape.

It's a similar case with the spear... pitchfork... thing. You've got a lot of ice at the top which will make it heavier and more difficult to move. And if anything the ice seems to have made it significantly more blunt, so a successful strike will actually cause less damage than if you'd left the magic ice off.

Now, it's possible that the ice is supposed to be more ethereal or something, but this seems a very poor way to represent that. But more than that it just seems so unnecessary.

I'll be honest, I'm also not a fan of the clothes. The top right image doesn't look too bad, but masks shown in the full picture and middle-right look very strange. Maybe it's just the art but they come across as being far too thin for winter clothes. If anything, they look more like some sort of ice-burkas. Also, apparently a benefit of being a Royal Guard is that you can accumulate an ungodly number of belts and straps. Seriously, imagine having to fasten and tighten all those straps, in freezing weather and whilst wearing mittens.

TL: DR I'm not opposed to the basic concept but the execution seems rather janky. Still, I appreciate that this is just concept art, so hopefully most of these issues will be amended before production.

 Argive wrote:
Because having 'ard looking Rus inspirered kossac blokes in furs would be "politcialy incorrect and racist" for today's times.

Uh, no?
Hard looking guys in fur aren't considered politically incorrect or racist.

 gorgon wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Lizardmen Temple Guard are bodyguards to the strongest magicians in the Warhammer World, and have hats made from skulls and halberds made from stone, wood and gold. Despite the fact that they are bipedal dinosaur people, they look more grounded than the new Ice Guard.

Aztec dinosaur people do not 'look more grounded' than some normal human female warriors with some ice stuck to their weapons.

It also ignores that the Temple Guard wearing ceremonial skulls and armor was the big difference between them and the standard Saurus.

That's not new either. It was in the Lizardmen book that dropped before the Lustria campaign, there was a whole spread in there talking about how the amount of gold a Saurus or Skink wore conveyed their status.

Kislev was always ruled by a Ice Queen though. So having a cadre of elite ice magic wielding warrior women makes sense thematically, a lot like how Alarielle had a cadre of magic bow wielding handmaidens under her command.

I'm sure we'll get our Cossack Bear Cavalry soon, don't worry.