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2021/06/01 07:08:29
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Sarouan wrote: Alternate covers are litterally what are all their special edition / collector codexes they keep selling for a limited stock everytime they release a new codex.
So yes, it's a collector item.
But there's no practical difference, hence difference without a distinction.
Moreover, it changes nothing in regards to the argument that GW didn't need to make Indomitus limited (nor do they need to make Dominion limited) as everything that was in Indomitus is still in production* and on sale (other than a cover for a rulebook) and it's a fairly safe bet that the same will be true with Dominion.
*Except the actual physical box, Irbis, before you start another post with "wRoNg!!!!1".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/01 07:10:36
Sarouan wrote: Alternate covers are litterally what are all their special edition / collector codexes they keep selling for a limited stock everytime they release a new codex.
So yes, it's a collector item.
But there's no practical difference, hence difference without a distinction.
So what, are you saying collector items are pointless to own ? Yes. Yes they are. Like all collector items, it's utterly pointless in the end.
It only has value because it's limited. That's the reality of this world. It's just for the point of having something different / more unique than the others (and somewhat bragging amongst you friends you have it).
Moreover, it changes nothing in regards to the argument that GW didn't need to make Indomitus limited (nor do they need to make Dominion limited) as everything that was in Indomitus is still in production* and on sale (other than a cover for a rulebook) and it's a fairly safe bet that the same will be true with Dominion.
Well, with that reasoning, you could also say GW doesn't need to sell army bundle boxes in december or Start Collecting boxes at all - 'cause in the end, it always depreciates the price of their singular boxes.
Indomitus / Dominion work because it's limited. You see what happens when GW sells way too interesting bundles : the singular boxes sold at a higher price don't sell. And when the starter boxes came for 40k V9, all comparisons were immediately made with Indomitus in mind. Thing is...once Indomitus isn't available anymore, that comparison doesn't have any meanings, except for those who enjoy fuming with anger in their stomach all the time (that's not good for your health, BTW). Starter boxes with Indomitus still around ? Wouldn't have worked the same.
Of course GW has a reason to do that. It's all about sales and stock numbers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/01 07:31:40
2021/06/01 08:02:45
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Because you are on the other extreme end of the line doesn't make you any more right or better than the ones you say you despise. You still build your own narrative based on your beliefs only, you don't try to understand the causes or why people are "defending" them.
I am a GW fanboy, yes, and I don't like it when they do limited stuff, no. Especially when I can't have those I tried to have.
Still, that doesn't justify the mindless moaning and complaining without any bounds here...especially because people doing that here are complaining for the possibility they may not have it. And I'm being very generous here, assuming all the usual suspects are actually interested in having one, while I know most of them are just GW haters who enjoy spitting on GW's practices only.
That's something entirely different than being angry once Indomitus was released on pre-order and definitively gone in the same day, and coming here to let out your frustration because you weren't able to have one box.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/01 11:54:33
2021/06/01 08:37:25
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.
2021/06/01 08:43:15
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Cronch wrote: It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.
Thank you for confirming you just complain for the principle of it. "GW is evil, kill GW !"
"Made their offer worse"...for a box that is litterally a bundle. Just LOL.
And don't even say you care about the customers who actually want to have one, really. That's clearly not true.
2021/06/01 08:46:37
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Cronch wrote: It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.
The offer isn't worse because Indomitus is limited. The offer is better because Indomitus is available at all. We never got an equivalent starter for any previous edition, even Dark Imperium didn't have nearly as much in it.
Indomitus =/= Baseline starter set. That's the Command edition. Seriously, go back and look at the history of 40k starters. If people were arguing that the Command edition is a worse starter I doubt there would be much pushback, but people are arguing that having a limited Indomitus + ongoing Command is worse than JUST having the Command edition. There's no GW white knighting required to see why that doesn't make sense.
And to reiterate since some individuals seem to have forgotten;
-Indomitus/Dominion are obviously starters and no one denying that.
-Everyone agrees that it would be better if Indomitus/Dominion were not limited.
Cronch wrote: It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.
The offer isn't worse because Indomitus is limited. The offer is better because Indomitus is available at all. We never got an equivalent starter for any previous edition, even Dark Imperium didn't have nearly as much in it.
Indomitus =/= Baseline starter set. That's the Command edition. Seriously, go back and look at the history of 40k starters. If people were arguing that the Command edition is a worse starter I doubt there would be much pushback, but people are arguing that having a limited Indomitus + ongoing Command is worse than JUST having the Command edition. There's no GW white knighting required to see why that doesn't make sense.
And to reiterate since some individuals seem to have forgotten;
-Indomitus/Dominion are obviously starters and no one denying that.
-Everyone agrees that it would be better if Indomitus/Dominion were not limited.
Again, no one is saying having a limited Indomitus and ongoing command edition is worse than just having the command edition. People are saying that having a limited Indomitus is worse than having a non-limited indomitus.
And people are very much denying that Indomitus and Dominion are starters, that was pretty much how the argument started.
2021/06/01 09:09:29
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
People are confusing Indomitus as being the analogy to previous starters, which it is not. It is a starter but not the starter, and we can be sure AoS 3rd will work the same way.
NinthMusketeer wrote: People are confusing Indomitus as being the analogy to previous starters, which it is not. It is a starter but not the starter, and we can be sure AoS 3rd will work the same way.
Who was denying it? I missed that.
As has been pointed out before, people are aware that it’s different with 9th/AoS 3, they aren’t confusing Indomitus with anything. The argument is simply that that shouldn’t be the case.
2021/06/01 09:15:37
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Cronch wrote: It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.
They do a starter set for 40K. It comes with two forces, a set of terrain including a board, dice, rulers, rule book, literally everything a brand new player needs to play a game with a friend. That’s a starter set. It might not have many minis as Dark Imperium, but that didn’t come with a set of terrain. In my opinion it’s a better starter than Dark Imperium because of that.
A starter set should provide what a brand new novice player needs to get STARTED. Indomitable was a launch box aimed at existing players. It’s a way of launching the new edition with a bit of hype and excitement.
Why is it so difficult to understand the difference? It’s almost as if you’re doing it deliberately.
2021/06/01 09:18:42
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
NinthMusketeer wrote: People are confusing Indomitus as being the analogy to previous starters, which it is not. It is a starter but not the starter, and we can be sure AoS 3rd will work the same way.
Who was denying it? I missed that.
As has been pointed out before, people are aware that it’s different with 9th/AoS 3, they aren’t confusing Indomitus with anything. The argument is simply that that shouldn’t be the case.
Well it is.
2021/06/01 09:19:48
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
NinthMusketeer wrote: People are confusing Indomitus as being the analogy to previous starters, which it is not. It is a starter but not the starter, and we can be sure AoS 3rd will work the same way.
Who was denying it? I missed that.
As has been pointed out before, people are aware that it’s different with 9th/AoS 3, they aren’t confusing Indomitus with anything. The argument is simply that that shouldn’t be the case.
Well it is.
Clearly.
2021/06/01 09:22:18
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
NinthMusketeer wrote: People are confusing Indomitus as being the analogy to previous starters, which it is not. It is a starter but not the starter, and we can be sure AoS 3rd will work the same way.
Who was denying it? I missed that.
As has been pointed out before, people are aware that it’s different with 9th/AoS 3, they aren’t confusing Indomitus with anything. The argument is simply that that shouldn’t be the case.
Well the above quoted post from Cronch shows him clearly stating that Launch Box + Starter is worse than just Starter, so...
Also, do you know where there were people denying that Indominions are starters? I haven't seen it at all, and I remain unconvinced that claim was made.
Also, do you know where there were people denying that Indominions are starters? I haven't seen it at all, and I remain unconvinced that claim was made.
Also, do you know where there were people denying that Indominions are starters? I haven't seen it at all, and I remain unconvinced that claim was made.
NinthMusketeer wrote: People are confusing Indomitus as being the analogy to previous starters, which it is not. It is a starter but not the starter, and we can be sure AoS 3rd will work the same way.
Who was denying it? I missed that.
As has been pointed out before, people are aware that it’s different with 9th/AoS 3, they aren’t confusing Indomitus with anything. The argument is simply that that shouldn’t be the case.
Well the above quoted post from Cronch shows him clearly stating that Launch Box + Starter is worse than just Starter, so...
Also, do you know where there were people denying that Indominions are starters? I haven't seen it at all, and I remain unconvinced that claim was made.
I’m not seeing how Cronch’s posts are saying that.
2021/06/01 09:42:07
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Also, do you know where there were people denying that Indominions are starters? I haven't seen it at all, and I remain unconvinced that claim was made.
NinthMusketeer wrote: People are confusing Indomitus as being the analogy to previous starters, which it is not. It is a starter but not the starter, and we can be sure AoS 3rd will work the same way.
Who was denying it? I missed that.
As has been pointed out before, people are aware that it’s different with 9th/AoS 3, they aren’t confusing Indomitus with anything. The argument is simply that that shouldn’t be the case.
Well the above quoted post from Cronch shows him clearly stating that Launch Box + Starter is worse than just Starter, so...
Also, do you know where there were people denying that Indominions are starters? I haven't seen it at all, and I remain unconvinced that claim was made.
I’m not seeing how Cronch’s posts are saying that.
Eh, it isn't really worth arguing the point on exactly how we agree. Ultimately we all don't like that Indominions are limited and just disagree on the specific reasoning/extent of our dislike.
NinthMusketeer wrote: People are confusing Indomitus as being the analogy to previous starters, which it is not. It is a starter but not the starter, and we can be sure AoS 3rd will work the same way.
Who was denying it? I missed that.
As has been pointed out before, people are aware that it’s different with 9th/AoS 3, they aren’t confusing Indomitus with anything. The argument is simply that that shouldn’t be the case.
Well the above quoted post from Cronch shows him clearly stating that Launch Box + Starter is worse than just Starter, so...
Also, do you know where there were people denying that Indominions are starters? I haven't seen it at all, and I remain unconvinced that claim was made.
I’m not seeing how Cronch’s posts are saying that.
Eh, it isn't really worth arguing the point on exactly how we agree. Ultimately we all don't like that Indominions are limited and just disagree on the specific reasoning/extent of our dislike.
Fair enough. I do like Indominions though.
2021/06/01 10:05:52
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Cronch wrote: It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.
What's so wrong with Dominion? 60+ models, a rule book, entry points for the two new armies before their Battletomes come out, Warscroll cards which I personally love to see. What was the downgrade?
2021/06/01 10:13:53
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Cronch wrote: It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.
What's so wrong with Dominion? 60+ models, a rule book, entry points for the two new armies before their Battletomes come out, Warscroll cards which I personally love to see. What was the downgrade?
Dominion isn’t the downgraded option he’s talking about.
2021/06/01 10:15:44
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
limited availability so you need to get it at pre-order if you want to be sure to get one
the older boxes had less content but you could wait for reviews if you were not sure about the purchase
from a costumer point this is a downgrade, as "buy blind or pay more"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/01 10:16:07
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2021/06/01 10:16:01
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: BR:Kragnos and Soulblight p.132.
Sarouan wrote: So what, are you saying collector items are pointless to own ? Yes. Yes they are. Like all collector items, it's utterly pointless in the end.
It only has value because it's limited. That's the reality of this world. It's just for the point of having something different / more unique than the others (and somewhat bragging amongst you friends you have it).
Cool. Immaterial to the argument at hand.
Sarouan wrote: Well, with that reasoning, you could also say GW doesn't need to sell army bundle boxes in december or Start Collecting boxes at all - 'cause in the end, it always depreciates the price of their singular boxes.
That makes no sense.
Sarouan wrote: Indomitus / Dominion work because it's limited.
But not so limited that they sell out world wide within minutes. That engenders a bad reputation with the company doing so - why do you think the question was asked during Dominion's reveal, and GW said that it, too, would be limited, showing that they've learnt nothing (remember Cursed City? Or do you think that vanishing was for "sales and stock numbers" too?).
The point being made is that they don't need to be limited, or even as limited as they are. None of the miniatures are unique or limited edition. They're all still on sale. They could have kept selling Indomitus for weeks after it went up for pre-order, but instead they settled on a release scheme that saw it unavailable online before the end of the day it went up for pre-order, and that wasn't necessary. Nor was it smart.
Sarouan wrote: Starter boxes with Indomitus still around ? Wouldn't have worked the same.
I never even suggested having Indomitus around at the same time as starter boxes, so perhaps try arguing against what I'm saying, rather than what you wish I'd said.
I don't think Indomitus would be an evergreen product, just that it should not have been so unbelievably limited that it was unavailable within the first day. You could even announce the three starter boxes with "Indomitus will soon be going away, but don't worry because we have three new ways to get started with 40K!". That would've worked wonders.
They could do the same for Dominion. But they won't.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/01 10:19:08
limited availability so you need to get it at pre-order if you want to be sure to get one
the older boxes had less content but you could wait for reviews if you were not sure about the purchase
from a costumer point this is a downgrade, as "buy blind or pay more"
Ah. I see.
Personally I'm excited for the box, I liked what I saw this past weekend. AoS is definitely more of a labor of love when compared to 40K.
