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 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Lets hope this idiotic idea of a "Launch Box" gets flushed down the toilet and GW actually decides how to scale their models.

Whatever is in the box contents of the new set, it desperately needs to available on a constant basis. As it stands right now it is ridiculously difficult to get anyone into 30k because there's absolutely no easy buy in. Even if it's all the stuff in the leaked pics and costs $250+, it's basically an entire 1,000+ starter army in plastic.

Imagine if Calth, Prospero, and this new set were all available at the same time. If only.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Imagine if Calth, Prospero, and this new set were all available at the same time. If only.

The Mk4 and the upcoming Mk6 are not compatible. Those new Mk6 will be rescaled like the CSM...

Not sure about the Mk3.

Im aware. Quite unfortunate.

Thought that rumour list was looking pretty good and believable.

Then I think the writer letter their imagination get away with them. Xenos and Great Crusade armies and the like? Nah.

 Pacific wrote:
Then I think the writer letter their imagination get away with them. Xenos and Great Crusade armies and the like? Nah.

The original plan was to do the Siege, the Scouring then go back to the Great Crusade (and their was a FAQ about using existing Xenos codex IIRC).

RazorEdge wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Imagine if Calth, Prospero, and this new set were all available at the same time. If only.

The Mk4 and the upcoming Mk6 are not compatible. Those new Mk6 will be rescaled like the CSM...

Not sure about the Mk3.

What isn't compatible between the new and old CSM? Other than the bodies and legs being less modular on the newer kit, the "scale" of the shoulder pads and heads haven't changed and can still be swapped between kits. Most of the arms, from what I can recall, can also be swapped? I don't have the kits in front of me though.

Even with Primaris marines the arms, heads and shoulder pads remained mostly the same "scale" as their older counterparts. It isn't scaling that makes Primaris "incompatible" with older marines but the less-modular bodies. While the Primaris line definitely increases the overall size and scale of the Marines, the newer Chaos kits are more subtle, rationalising some of the proportions of the models. Hence why specific components like heads, pauldrons and arms stay pretty much the same size and scale while the overall height increases.

So the upcoming Mk6 will be made one of two ways: Either completely modular like older kits, like the Mk4 and Mk3, etc, OR they will more closely resemble the newer Chaos and Primaris models, with the combined torso and leg components, with a slight height increase, though not to the extent of the Primaris.

Regardless of which route they take with the Mk6 kit, many of the individual components will be absolutely compatible with the prior kits, and since the "scale" differences come down to subtle reposing and lengthening of some of the leg and torso sections, I don't see how they'll look radically out of scale as compared to the most recent Heresy plastics?

It's such a boring argument for people to be having at this point. For someone whose first Space Marine kit was the RTB01 beaky set back in the 1980s, I've had to endure decades of "scale creep" with my Marines. Except, I haven't. Because for that to have occurred you'd need to prove that there was ever a standardised scale for Marines in the first place. Changes in overall height in the ranges have occurred in-line with relative increases in both detail and to better fit the more relative proportions of the figures.

I don't think anyone can make the argument that the progressively larger marines we've seen over the last few years don't look aesthetically better than their predecessors, so those relative increases in height have served a purpose in terms of being able to turn out better miniatures. But it does make me wonder what the reaction might have been if the designers had instead reduced the relative sizes of the heads and shoulder pads in order to achieve the same aesthetic goal...? It might just be me, but I think the comparison would look far more absurd if you had marines with different sized heads rather than a few millimetres of difference in height.

So, nah, the potential height difference between the Mk6 and previous kits is going to be so negligible as to be unnoticeable. It isn't something to get upset about.

Alan Bligh planned to expand the Age of Darkness Setting from Horus Heresy later into the Great Crusades. There was a statement by him in the Past about future Plans at FW.

 Crablezworth wrote:
If they make the black books irrelevant, they never understood 30k to begin with. I don't play it for the fluff either, I play it because it's a much better game than what 40k has become. I don't know why they'd be in such a hurry to ruin it.

Subjective. The armies may be better balanced(may) but 7th edition is a trashfire.

beast_gts wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Then I think the writer letter their imagination get away with them. Xenos and Great Crusade armies and the like? Nah.

The original plan was to do the Siege, the Scouring then go back to the Great Crusade (and their was a FAQ about using existing Xenos codex IIRC).

At least as long as Alan Bligh was alive the plan was never to include Xenos as it was fundamentally a story of brother against brother and xenos would be a distraction from that. With regards to the Great Crusade, that was never part of the plan - in Alans words it was an option on the table that they could consider at a later date, but they had enough content to keep them busy on the Heresy, Siege of Terra, and Scouring for decades.

The only FAQ on the subject i know of is this:

Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in
games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?

A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all
designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and
focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the
Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.

Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against
your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with
Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that
you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For
example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in
Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing
within their own sphere.)

In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be
used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of
Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points
or greater.

Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the
Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use
those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger
squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using
the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers
available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal.

While it doesn't say you can't play Xenos v 30k, it doesn't really give you the tools needed to actually do so, noting specifically that there will be rules anomalies and inconsistencies that will come up by doing so and basically telling the players to figure out how to handle that themselves with house rulings. It also makes pretty clear that 30k and 40k armies are balanced and costed differently, etc. though their stance is that battles between the two will be "fair".

beast_gts wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Then I think the writer letter their imagination get away with them. Xenos and Great Crusade armies and the like? Nah.

The original plan was to do the Siege, the Scouring then go back to the Great Crusade (and their was a FAQ about using existing Xenos codex IIRC).

Plan from whom do you mind me asking?

The releases in 40k are generally Marine-centric (this is an annoyance to some going back to Rogue Trader days) and there are so many complaints that GW aren't keeping on top of Xenos releases for their flagship product. How on earth would they manage with whole other ranges of Xenos (including, presumably, completely new lines of aliens) for a spin-off game that is already seen as a Specialist Game? I find it very hard to believe.

I think I must have misremembered then - I do recall the bit about larger squads but thought there was more to it than it (or I'm thinking of fan rules).

 Pacific wrote:
Plan from whom do you mind me asking?

From what I remember (which might be wrong) Alan Bligh was asked about Thunder Warriors and the answer was they might go back and do the earlier stuff once the HH was done.

beast_gts wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Then I think the writer letter their imagination get away with them. Xenos and Great Crusade armies and the like? Nah.

The original plan was to do the Siege, the Scouring then go back to the Great Crusade (and their was a FAQ about using existing Xenos codex IIRC).

I think that plan was hatched back when they thought they'd knock out two books a year. At this rate, that plan would wrap up in about 2035. If I was to believe anything from that set of stuff, it's that GW realized that the black book approach isn't viable long-term, at least as-is.

Losing Bligh was such a tragedy.

It was indeed, very, very sad. Think this is the case for anyone passing away at that age, but his work meant a great deal to a lot of people, and in the same way as musicians or artists dying before their time, you wonder what other creative efforts have gone unwritten.

beast_gts wrote:
I think I must have misremembered then - I do recall the bit about larger squads but thought there was more to it than it (or I'm thinking of fan rules).

 Pacific wrote:
Plan from whom do you mind me asking?

From what I remember (which might be wrong) Alan Bligh was asked about Thunder Warriors and the answer was they might go back and do the earlier stuff once the HH was done.

Thanks for clarifying

RazorEdge wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Imagine if Calth, Prospero, and this new set were all available at the same time. If only.

The Mk4 and the upcoming Mk6 are not compatible. Those new Mk6 will be rescaled like the CSM...

Not sure about the Mk3.

What, because the new Mk6 look a bit larger scaled than the Mk3 and Mk4? There are multiple companies out there already making "truescale" power armor and those bodies all work well with the current sets of plastic arms, shoulders, heads and backpacks.

Subjective. The armies may be better balanced(may) but 7th edition is a trashfire.

Also subjective. There are lots of people who prefer the current Age of Darkness rules over 8th/9th.

ERJAK wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
If they make the black books irrelevant, they never understood 30k to begin with. I don't play it for the fluff either, I play it because it's a much better game than what 40k has become. I don't know why they'd be in such a hurry to ruin it.

Subjective. The armies may be better balanced(may) but 7th edition is a trashfire.

You're right, we could improve it by having grots stop baneblades in their tracks, tack on a really bad ap system and eliminate unit types all together and just have every other model fly because reasons. 30k really need all their weapons to be RND nightmares with D6 shots and AP. The real tragedy of 7th and 30k is my flyers can't assault bunkers.

7th (30k) is far better than the collectable card game with models that is 40k now. I really don't think 30k will be improved by having every battle be on planet giant L's in the middle of the board or having every objective be an giant circle with advertisements on it.

Yeah, again it was less "the plan" and more "this is an option we might or could pursue one day in the future". If HH had the budget and staffing of 40k proper it would have happened, but the way FW was going even before his passing meant it probably would have been a long long time before they got around to it.

 Crablezworth wrote:

You're right, we could improve it by having grots stop baneblades in their tracks, tack on a really bad ap system and eliminate unit types all together and just have every other model fly because reasons. 30k really need all their weapons to be RND nightmares with D6 shots and AP. The real tragedy of 7th and 30k is my flyers can't assault bunkers.

Lol. You make it sound like this old meme personified.



It just needs a suitably metal guitar riff and an announcement video by the Flashgitz guys on youtube.

Nah, those Mk4 Marines will look stupid beneath the upcoming Mk6 if you not use their rescaled Legs. That's what I mean with "Not compatible".

As I said earlier in the thread...both systems are pretty terrible wargames IMO with very different issues. It's a douche vs. a turd sandwich. People are certainly allowed their preferences in that scenario and I have mine, but it's very hard for me to understand anyone waxing poetic about either. It's about the pretty miniatures.

 gorgon wrote:
As I said earlier in the thread...both systems are pretty terrible wargames IMO with very different issues. It's a douche vs. a turd sandwich. People are certainly allowed their preferences in that scenario and I have mine, but it's very hard for me to understand anyone waxing poetic about either. It's about the pretty miniatures.

While I wont say either game is a bad system, switching to Star Wars Legions, Armada, and ASOIAF has shown me how much room for improvement GW games have.

You don't even need to leave GW to find that. They have other games that play much, much better.

Not very interested in anything besides 30K at this point honestly.


I am into the old War of the Ring system for LOTR. That game has no reason being as good as it is.

chaos0xomega wrote:


While it doesn't say you can't play Xenos v 30k, it doesn't really give you the tools needed to actually do so, noting specifically that there will be rules anomalies and inconsistencies that will come up by doing so and basically telling the players to figure out how to handle that themselves with house rulings. It also makes pretty clear that 30k and 40k armies are balanced and costed differently, etc. though their stance is that battles between the two will be "fair".

It really didn't need to provide any tools. You could just take the 30k army list and pit it against any 40k book. The core rules were identical after all. (And hardly perfectly consistent even within 40k.)

Obviously the 30k guys thought that every guy in a squad could use a meta bomb while the 40k guys didn't, but you used the 40k errata regardless.

Yes, the 30k armies were balanced differently, promoting big squads for example, but the balance between armies in 40k proper was easily worse anyway.

Saw this on a facebook group. They ordered Maloghurst, got what appears to be a new SoH model instead. Or at least, that's the story they give.

Rihgu wrote:
Saw this on a facebook group. They ordered Maloghurst, got what appears to be a new SoH model instead. Or at least, that's the story they give.

New Praetor (Volkite & Power Fist)? Although the base & cape seem a bit fancy for that.

I've seen some people posing Tybalt Marr?

Rihgu wrote:
I've seen some people posing Tybalt Marr?

The prosthetic hand would fit, wouldn't it?

Rihgu wrote:
I've seen some people posing Tybalt Marr?

Does he have rules somewhere?