Coronavirus

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**hotsauceman1**

I will totally busybody people who refuse to wear masks
you are not only putting yourself in danger, but others as well, with the ability of this virus to transfer even if you are not showing symptons, you should be conscious off the fact that you could be caring it and now now..
If you refuse to wear a mask, or are incapable of wearing one and try to carryon as normal and demand stores let you in, you are a danger to the public and public health. I dont care if "you have a condition" you have to be willing to think about more than yourself

**skyth**

Glasses fogging issue - granted, I only wear sunglasses, but the masks my wife makes have pipecleaner built into the nose area to make it more form fitting. This helps with the glasses fogging up as the warm exhaled air doesn't go up.

**hotsauceman1**

So, i have an adjacent issue/topic i kinda wanna discuss.
Quarantine/SIP is still very much in effect for my county and im still sheltered inside. Work is kinda staggered, ill log one for like a hour and half, log off for 3 hours then log on for 30min and so forth.
I am incredibly bored with my hobbies, Mostly Video games and Miniatures building/Painting. Anyone got any ideas on HOW i can eleviate that? I have been thinking of switching gears and trying to build terrain. I have been thinking about a marvel crisis board. Been picking up reading more before bed and cooking(Well, more involved recipes and stuff, i have been perfecting sheetpan dinners lately.)

**BobtheInquisitor**

To avoid going off topic, I sent a Pm.

**Kilkrazy**

Building terrain is a fun hobby. You can do a lot with relatively cheap materials such as plywood or foamcore board, and even recycle stuff like toiletry containers, which have got a lot of interesting shapes.

Alternatively, try writing. It's very cheap.

**Dreadwinter**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, i have an adjacent issue/topic i kinda wanna discuss.
Quarantine/SIP is still very much in effect for my county and im still sheltered inside. Work is kinda staggered, ill log one for like a hour and half, log off for 3 hours then log on for 30min and so forth.
I am incredibly bored with my hobbies, Mostly Video games and Miniatures building/Painting. Anyone got any ideas on HOW i can eleviate that? I have been thinking of switching gears and trying to build terrain. I have been thinking about a marvel crisis board. Been picking up reading more before bed and cooking(Well, more involved recipes and stuff, i have been perfecting sheetpan dinners lately.)

You could flesh out your miniatures backstory if you are in to that or build a diorama to showcase their glory.

Or pick up knitting, that is big right now for some reason.

**Bran Dawri**

Try something different for a change? Read a book or two.

**nfe**

skyth wrote:
Glasses fogging issue - granted, I only wear sunglasses, but the masks my wife makes have pipecleaner built into the nose area to make it more form fitting. This helps with the glasses fogging up as the warm exhaled air doesn't go up.

You just wear a mask that sits high enough on your nose so that your specs sit on top of it and press it down around your nose. 'I can't wear a mask because my glasses steam up' is another invented problem.

**Skinnereal**

For the steamy glasses issue, you need a way for the air to escape.
Has anyone tried to fashion a snorkel, to allow the air out?
Stick a Land Rover logo on it, maybe

**Cyel**

Bran Dawri wrote:
Try something different for a change? Read a book or two.

Also don't forget everyday workout. There's a lot of useful "no equipment-workout at home" videos on YT.

Apart from obvious health advantages and being another passtime it will also improve your mood and energy - an important thing for someone under lockdown.

**queen_annes_revenge**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
ScarletRose wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Fair enough. I don't care if people want to wear masks. All I expect is the same in return for the fact I don't.

I don't care if people want to drive drunk, they should just leave me alone while I drive drunk.

That is a good analogy, seriously. It gets straight to the 'not a guarantee but a risk' element. If masks were about protecting oneself from getting it I imagine many people would be happy to let others go without them. But it is not. It is about the safety of people around you, and a person has no right to put others in danger just because they can't be arsed to wear a mask.

Sidenote; supporters of stand your ground laws should point out how approaching someone without a mask on very much is a threat to their life. Yet somehow I don't think they will be.

Ah yes, the old 'its not to stop you getting it, it's to stop it if you have it'.. because a piece of old t shirt stretched over your mouth will let virus in, but not out... I see everyone conveniently ignored my pointing out of Spain's new rise in cases, despite masks being mandatory in all public spaces, including outside.

Seems more like a convenient way of forcing everyone to comply. Make out like everyone is a biohazard, and turn the judging eye onto those who see masks as pointless.

All this while a whopping 0.05 % of the population are estimated to have the virus at any one time, and deaths continue to fall, yet only now masks are imperative for public health, 4 Months after our peak.

ScarletRose wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Fair enough. I don't care if people want to wear masks. All I expect is the same in return for the fact I don't.

I don't care if people want to drive drunk, they should just leave me alone while I drive drunk.

False equivalences are false.

**RiTides**

Hotsauceman - I think terrain is a great idea, personally! You can turn almost anything on-hand into some type of terrain

QAR - It's true that deaths are on the decline (Florida just passed New York for total number of cases to date, but has only 1/6 of the deaths). This is a pretty hopeful figure, since you'd think the state population would be at higher risk of death. I think it is largely due to improving treatments.

However, that's no reason not to show common solidarity / decency and mask it up in indoor public spaces. It's such a small thing, and if we all did it, really helps reduce transmission rates (by up to 50% I have read, and that's just huge).

**YeOldSaltPotato**

[deleted]

**Crispy78**

Masks should have been made mandatory months ago, not arguing with you there. If I remember correctly, and being very charitable to those in charge; I think there were concerns over the supply of masks, and they weren't mandated to the public at the time to ensure adequate supplies to frontline staff.

Personally, we've had mandatory mask wearing at work for about 2 months now. Yes they're a pain in the backside. Yes my glasses fog up. Yes I struggle with understanding people, as I have a slight hearing loss and partially lipread to fill in the gaps. Yes it makes the skin round my nose greasy. Still wear it though.

Can you please explain the alternative view? How does the government benefit by making people wear masks unnecessarily? Given that enough people voted Tory to give them a massive majority already, including a lot of the previously bright-red North, I think the indoctrination job is already done...

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Nipped to Sainsbury’s this morning, as I needed to buy some lunch foods (bread, quiche, falafel etc as I’m still watching how much I’m eating) and happy to report the vast majority were wearing masks.

Very oddly, the only people that weren’t were kids - who’s parents were wearing masks? My guess is they’re struggling to find child sized masks.

Also got my tattoo done on Saturday, wore my mask throughout, as did my artists - and her face shield.

I really don’t get what all the fuss is about.

**Pacific**

Ouze wrote:

On a sort of tangent, one of the good things about the corona virus is contactless food delivery. I don't know if I can go back to normal food delivery (with the required human interaction) after experiencing the joys of the pizza lady coming up the loading dock, leaving my pizza at the door, texting me "it's here", and then leaving like she was leaving it next to a manhole for the ninja turtles. I won't even get into the obvious awesomeness of no longer trudging around the supermarket for an hour.

Haha, definitely - along with cleaner air, less commuting etc I think getting used to home deliveries and click-collect. Definitely not going back to the supermarket -one of my most hated chores - after all this is over!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Me? I’m turning my choice in mask into what passes for a fashion statement.
Got four new ones on order.“Save Ferris”“Spaceballs, The Facemask”“What A Time To Be Alive”
and finally?
One with a Mandalorian helmet’s lower half and “This Is The Way”.
Take it, run with it. Be extra fabulous whilst being sensible

Brilliant. I've noticed quite a few stores doing these now - Society6 has hundreds on there with all kinds of designs if anyone is after something a bit different.

Ouze wrote:
For whatever it's worth, I do think that shifting the onus on mask enforcement to retail employees is a pathetic abdication of leadership from government... but about par for how all of this has unfolded, honestly. If I worked at a supermarket I would not feel particular comfortable asking the unmasked to mask up or leave - as we've noted, there have been violent confrontations. If you dont? You risk your employment, potentially headed into a depression - or risk getting sick from said unmasked person. It's not fair to ask someone making minimum wage bagging groceries to enforce social standards during a deadly pandemic.

The worst timeline continues apace.

Agree 100%. A definite absolution of responsibility, although I am glad at least in the UK they have brought in the law (it's late, but better late than never) it's unreasonable to ask shop staff to enforce it so I can completely understand Asda etc. not mandating it.

Think the gov needs to try various 'soft' pressures. Perhaps some video commericals, along the lines of the old anti-smoking and road safety adverts, with some shocking video of someone dying on a ventilator and their family not being with them. It would be disturbing by design and not pleasant, but I think it would be useful to help penetrate through to the people that either aren't educated about the effects of Covid or else nonchalant about it.

RiTides wrote:
Regarding the exchange further up this page:
Despite my post above, basic site rules still apply in this thread, as they do everywhere on the site. If you can't discuss a topic politely without name calling, then you simply can't discuss it on Dakka.
Again, this is all in the interest of being able to keep this thread open so we can continue discussing this important topic. Further posts using insults or that are extremely off topic will simply be deleted.
Thanks for your help everyone

There seems to be one person doing their damndest to get the thread closed - either purposefully or not, it's a shame if this does happen for the sake of one person as this thread is a good outlet and I think is probably helping a lot of people.

**Not Online!!!**

ï honestly think you missunderstand QAR's position pacific.

it's less about the enforcement and more about the principle, which indeed , does set a rather dangerous precedent in behavoural patterns, including a predisposed obedience without room for questioning.

Now do i agree with him on his perspecive about corona, no, not really, and i do find his rebuttal torwards the car analogy a bit curious, considering we have such laws for good reasons.

I do also wonder if pointing at spain, a country highly dependant on flooding of tourists for it's economy and claiming masks don't work making sense aswell.

That doesn't detract from the principle though that central government generally should not interfere with the people as much as possible and if it does so, also be able to be held accountable and legitimate. Both of which are things one can argue in a state of emergency are not there.

**queen_annes_revenge**

The car analogy is false because a drunk driver is highly likely to kill or injure themself or another person. Not at all comparible to the tiny chance that you're catching corona,(with its incredibly high survivability rate, and now incredibly low infected per capita rate already covered),from some random in the supermarket.

This situation is nowhere near grounds enough for the government to be mandating things at such a micro level, with threat of financial punishment for dissenters. 'you must follow our diktats, or not be allowed to provide for your family'

As for the folks who say 'its just a mask' 'its just a minor inconvenience' I say, well 4 Months ago it was 'its just a few weeks of lockdown' 'its just fines for folks who don't obey' 'its just a few more weeks' 'just until we get the R rate down' 'just mandatory masks on public transport' 'just mandatory masks in all shops'... Where does it stop? At the start it was flatten the curve. Well how damn flat does it need to be? The goalposts keep moving. The restrictions keep creeping.

And all the while no good news is ever shown on TV. The low infection rate, the low death rate. The fact that the NHS never got anywhere near being overwhelmed, the fact that at peak there were about 4000 people on ventilators, and now there are sub 200. And still no recovered rates, despite being promised by beginning of June, and if anything slightly positive can't avoid being shown, they immediately follow it with the obligatory banging of the 'second wave' drum. Well where is this second wave? We've had at least 4, 5 events that the doomsayers claimed would herald it...

Also, it turns out that to PHE, you can never recover from Corona, as their death tolls have been including those who had it, recovered, then died of something else.

So yeah, I'm a sceptic. And that's my logic as to why.

**skyth**

Really, only pointing to the chance Corona will kill you is a dishonest argument. People who 'survive' and 'recover' often have serious permanent ailments, especially in lung capacity.

They are no longer able to work at full capacity and will often be dependent on government disability benefits to survive.

**Not Online!!!**

skyth wrote:
Really, only pointing to the chance Corona will kill you is a dishonest argument. People who 'survive' and 'recover' often have serious permanent ailments, especially in lung capacity.

They are no longer able to work at full capacity and will often be dependent on government disability benefits to survive.

what was that, for 1 dead, 19 need ventilators, 18 with permanent damage to lung and heart.

and that are those that get lucky qar.

**queen_annes_revenge**

I don't know where you're getting those numbers, but UK peak ventilators for covid patients was just over 3k. It's now down to about 190.

Following your numbers, for our 40k deaths would mean 720000 plus on ventilators.

And the damage (it's too early to tell if it's permanent) is 1/10 people affected max. It's unfortunate but it's still not near enough to justify these measures.

**Not Online!!!**

That was the one from some pages ago but that was i believe from the USA.

Granted this here is probably more accurate.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/lifelong-lung-damage-the-serious-covid-19-complication-that-can-hit-people-in-their-20s

**queen_annes_revenge**

Yeah, and whilst not being familiar with us numbers, I'd be doubting the validity of a claim like that.

I'm not disputing that there's negative reactions in some people. That's going to be the case with any new disease. As I said, it's not good and those who are suffering have my sympathy, but I still don't think it warrants this huge overreaction that we insist on continuing to flog. It's a sunk cost at this point. And the government are now trapped.

Consider that in the UK, we're in the third consecutive week of below average deaths for the year. This suggests that those who would normally have died at this point probably had it brought forward by a few weeks or couple of months by the virus.

**Not Online!!!**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yeah, and whilst not being familiar with us numbers, I'd be doubting the validity of a claim like that.

I'm not disputing that there's negative reactions in some people. That's going to be the case with any new disease. As I said, it's not good and those who are suffering have my sympathy, but I still don't think it warrants this huge overreaction that we insist on continuing to flog. It's a sunk cost at this point. And the government are now trapped.

Consider that in the UK, we're in the third consecutive week of below average deaths for the year. This suggests that those who would normally have died at this point probably had it brought forward by a few weeks or couple of months by the virus.

vice versa in switzerland covid has beaten the general flue within 1 month in deadlyness.

And considering that due to mers and sars we can gather that about a 3rd of the survivors will carry away permanent lungdamage, and that in china a study found 77% of people suffering from such grey patches, i rekon that we will have a lot more people suffering from longterm effects this time around .

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/06/02/covid-health-effects

**nfe**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:

Consider that in the UK, we're in the third consecutive week of below average deaths for the year. This suggests that those who would normally have died at this point probably had it brought forward by a few weeks or couple of months by the virus.

Currently England and Wales are just over 6% below the 5 year average overall. Top of my head maths, but I think they'd need to stay at that for several years to offset the CV deaths.

They also remain above the five year average for deaths in private dwellings.

**Easy E**

This same old argument again. I guess the oldies are the goodies.

QAR- How do you feel about No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service signs at stores? Are they a violation of your freedoms or some sort of indoctrination to obedience?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yeah, and whilst not being familiar with us numbers, I'd be doubting the validity of a claim like that.

I'm not disputing that there's negative reactions in some people. That's going to be the case with any new disease. As I said, it's not good and those who are suffering have my sympathy, but I still don't think it warrants this huge overreaction that we insist on continuing to flog. It's a sunk cost at this point. And the government are now trapped.

Consider that in the UK, we're in the third consecutive week of below average deaths for the year. This suggests that those who would normally have died at this point probably had it brought forward by a few weeks or couple of months by the virus.

Not sure your conclusion is entirely safe there, as it doesn’t take into account the changes we’ve seen in society. Yes it’s pretty much certain that someone in already poor health contracting the virus is less likely to survive it. But....

With fewer people travelling, there’s fewer road traffic accidents. With reduced foot traffic, especially at night, fewer muggings etc. Quieter roads also affect Paramedic response times. When every minute saved increases chances of survival (such as Stroke or Heart Attack), we can in turn expect higher survival rates.

Do I have solid figures for you? Nope. But there’ll be out there, somewhere.

**reds8n**

During the Blitz, were people really pissed and refusing to follow the 'Lights out" policy? How about food rationing?

yes.

People were nowhere near as well behaved the mythology of the era would have one believe.

Quite a lot of people didn't even bother sheltering from the bombing runs

https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/the-dangers-of-the-blitz-spirit/

and people used to assault air wardens and the like
https://twitter.com/JulieAMcDowall/status/1254691029300785152

massive surge in crime too

today :

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-confirmed-in-pet-cat-in-the-uk

The UK’s Chief Veterinary Officer has confirmed that the virus responsible for COVID-19 has been detected in a pet cat in the UK.

The infection was confirmed following tests at the Animal and Plant Health Agency (APHA) laboratory in Weybridge on Wednesday 22 July.

Although this is the first confirmed case of an animal infection with the coronavirus strain in the UK, there is no evidence to suggest that the animal was involved in transmission of the disease to its owners or that pets or other domestic animals are able to transmit the virus to people.

The advice from Public Health England is for people to wash their hands regularly, including before and after contact with animals.

All available evidence suggests that the cat contracted the coronavirus from its owners who had previously tested positive for COVID-19. The cat and its owners have since made a full recovery and there was no transmission to other animals or people in the household.

Chief Veterinary Officer Christine Middlemiss said:

Tests conducted by the Animal and Plant Health Agency have confirmed that the virus responsible for COVID-19 has been detected in a pet cat in England.

This is a very rare event with infected animals detected to date only showing mild clinical signs and recovering within in a few days.

There is no evidence to suggest that pets directly transmit the virus to humans. We will continue to monitor this situation closely and will update our guidance to pet owners should the situation change.

Yvonne Doyle, Medical Director at Public Health England, said:

This is the first case of a domestic cat testing positive for COVID-19 in the UK but should not be a cause for alarm.

The investigation into this case suggest that the infection was spread from humans to animal, and not the other way round. At this time, there is no evidence that pets can transmit the disease to humans.

In line with the general advice on fighting coronavirus, you should wash your hands regularly, including before and after contact with animals.

The pet cat was initially diagnosed by a private vet with feline herpes virus, a common cat respiratory infection, but the sample was also tested for SARS-CoV-2 as part of a research programme. Follow-up samples tested at the APHA laboratory in Weybridge confirmed the cat was also co-infected with SARS-CoV2 which is the virus known to cause COVID-19 in humans.

Pet owners can access the latest government guidance on how to continue to care for their animals during the coronavirus pandemic.

The case has been reported to the World Organisation for Animal Health in line with international commitments. There have been a very small number of confirmed cases in pets in other countries in Europe, North America and Asia.

**Tannhauser42**

reds8n wrote:

During the Blitz, were people really pissed and refusing to follow the 'Lights out" policy? How about food rationing?

yes.

People were nowhere near as well behaved the mythology of the era would have one believe.

Yep. I often listen to old radio shows, and a lot of the wartime shows would often have a small bit explaining how important rationing and other wartime inconveniences are. Some would often do a whole story with a main character complaining and fighting against some wartime-caused inconvenience, with the story having him learn all about the reasons and accepting it by the end of the show.

A lot of people live in their own safety bubble. They haven't gotten sick, nobody they know has gotten sick, almost nobody in their little town has gotten sick, therefore there is no threat so why they should act like there is one? Because, you know, loose lips sink ships, and it just takes one infected individual to start the spread in a whole group of careless/unprotected people. That's why there is so much messaging about the problem. As soon as you let up, as soon as you give people even the slightest chance to think everything is ok, then there are people who will through the gates wide open and rush to be back to normal, with no forethought or precautions.

**queen_annes_revenge**

Easy E wrote:
This same old argument again. I guess the oldies are the goodies.

QAR- How do you feel about No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service signs at stores? Are they a violation of your freedoms or some sort of indoctrination to obedience?

And I see you've dragged out that old tired counterargument. But no.
Stores as private enterprises, can implement whatever policies they like. I, am objecting to the GOVERNMENT mandating what I must do.