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2021/11/17 04:23:37
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
Oh. I'd forgotten what the premise of this movie was.
Well, Peter, your replacement mentor figure is even more of donkey, but good news, you're setting up his sequel!
I'm sure Sony is fine with that. Right?
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/11/17 04:33:59
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
I would assume it was part of the overall deal that saw SonySpiderMan included in the MCU after the first one.
Sure. But from this trailer specifically, it looks like a setup movie for DS2: Multiverse of Madness. Sure, Spidey will punch his... alternate universe rogue's gallery in the face and chase MJ around, but the meat of the plot is about the people/things coming through the walls of reality. The fact that they're the villains from the other Spidey films actually removes a lot of the tension. Peter Parker usually has some form of relationship with his main villains. Several of them aren't just randos, they're people who he interacted with as Peter, knew them and dated their daughters, who mentored or challenged him or whatever. _All_ of that is stripped out of this film. THIS Peter is basically getting hit with a group of goofy monsters of the week all at once, and these are the _signature_ spider man villains, reduced to some lame jokes and face punching. There's no connection or tie anywhere at all, not even really with Strange, who's annoyed at the situation (and Peter himself), but they don't have any real bond either. There's just dudes to punch, and (more) set up for the Multiverse.
Which goes back to Sony- sure, they get a bag of cash for this, but Disney also gets a bag of cash, and also sets up their NEXT bag of cash (or the next arc of cash bags). Sony wins, but Disney gets to win twice. For competitors in the same field, that isn't really a great business deal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/17 05:46:43
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/11/17 06:35:35
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
That seems like a lot of assumptions to make based on a 3 minute sizzle reel, honestly.
I would assume that this will also serve to set up the next Spiderman movie, whether that's as a part of the MCU or Sony forging off on their own, but they're not really going to show us the hook for the next movie in the trailer for this one.
2021/11/17 09:49:59
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
I would assume it was part of the overall deal that saw SonySpiderMan included in the MCU after the first one.
Sure. But from this trailer specifically, it looks like a setup movie for DS2: Multiverse of Madness. Sure, Spidey will punch his... alternate universe rogue's gallery in the face and chase MJ around, but the meat of the plot is about the people/things coming through the walls of reality. The fact that they're the villains from the other Spidey films actually removes a lot of the tension. Peter Parker usually has some form of relationship with his main villains. Several of them aren't just randos, they're people who he interacted with as Peter, knew them and dated their daughters, who mentored or challenged him or whatever. _All_ of that is stripped out of this film. THIS Peter is basically getting hit with a group of goofy monsters of the week all at once, and these are the _signature_ spider man villains, reduced to some lame jokes and face punching. There's no connection or tie anywhere at all, not even really with Strange, who's annoyed at the situation (and Peter himself), but they don't have any real bond either. There's just dudes to punch, and (more) set up for the Multiverse.
Which goes back to Sony- sure, they get a bag of cash for this, but Disney also gets a bag of cash, and also sets up their NEXT bag of cash (or the next arc of cash bags). Sony wins, but Disney gets to win twice. For competitors in the same field, that isn't really a great business deal.
In this trailer we have some dialog about how these are all people who died fighting spider men of different universes. Their fate is to die or whatever. And Peter refuses to let them die and wants to save all of them. His personal connection looks to be his power and responsibility. It doesn't matter if another spiderman let them die. He is now shouldering the responsibility to stop them while saving them. A very spider man thing to happen. And very personal stakes for himself. What it means to be spiderman trying to save everyone.
And while this surely does lead into multiverse of maddness, so does Wandavision and Loki. Loki more than anything.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2021/11/17 10:05:39
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
So we get the tidbit that these are all dudes who died fighting Spider-Man, except Doc Oct didn’t die Fighting him, he died sacrificing himself to save the city after he took back control of his mind from the arm AI. And of course it’s Doc Oct we see going wait, you’re not Peter, and then forming enough of a connection that they’re able to have some conversations. I do hope we get to see more of that and his bit of redemption there from the end of his movie.
2021/11/17 10:43:47
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
Apparently, in the Brazillian cut of the trailer, you can see Lizardman react to being punched, but they edited out whoever is doing the punching. There is still hope for the other spidermen appearing in this film.
2021/11/17 11:01:17
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I see nothing about that trailer that looks Zack Snyder-y.
I'd start with overstuffed, point out it looks like a green screen/spectacle fest, move into stakes ramped up to 11 (universes colliding! lights in the sky!), and then reference the teased death of a major character. Oh, and Spidey apparently has a Mother Box...?
It's a Spider-Man film. It's a character who's often introduced with the epithet "Friendly Neighborhood". It feels like they lost the thread on that...or maybe they never really had that thread with the Holland films anyway. I get that they wanted their own Into the Spider-Verse, but that movie was GREAT because it had a good, grounded story with lots of heart at its core, and the multiverse stuff was just there to serve it.
This doesn't appear to be that...it seems to be leading with "LOOK AT ALL THIS...STUFF!" We've seen two other 'everything but the kitchen sink' Spidey movies before and the results weren't good. This looks like Spider-Man: Endgame to me in all the worst ways.
Others may disagree. *shrug* I'm sure it'll make a jillion dollars, so whatever.
I think it feels like a joint venture in which two partners are each trying to get what they need. I'm sure it will be a very good business venture for both of them. But that's how this comes across to me...not so much like a work of art or a great story idea. I'm sure it'll be great spectacle with fan service every minute. But I feel like I can wait to watch that at home. *shrug*
Oh...and to be fair and clear, the first two Holland films *were* pretty grounded and not like this. It's just the looming presence of Tony Stark in each where they felt wonky to me. But the scope felt much better and the movies weren't overstuffed.
insaniak wrote: That seems like a lot of assumptions to make based on a 3 minute sizzle reel, honestly.
I would assume that this will also serve to set up the next Spiderman movie, whether that's as a part of the MCU or Sony forging off on their own, but they're not really going to show us the hook for the next movie in the trailer for this one.
My point is... they're literally showing us the hook for the next movie in this trailer.
The 'next movie' is just Dr Strange 2, not... whatever Sony does with (a probably new) Peter Parker (given the usual rate they recycle actors. Have any made it past 3 films?).
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/11/18 00:01:59
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
Voss wrote: (given the usual rate they recycle actors. Have any made it past 3 films?).
No, I don't think so.
I think this does look overstuffed, but I am totally there for it. I think it looks great even if a little formulaic. I am a sucker for multiverse shenanigans though.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2021/11/18 00:53:30
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
Voss wrote: My point is... they're literally showing us the hook for the next movie in this trailer.
That's because they already showed us that, in Loki and WandaVision. So it's not giving anything away. This movie is only a part of the setup for Strange 2, and I would expect there to be more to the overall story than is shown in the trailer, just as there was in the Far From Home.
2021/12/02 12:44:50
Subject: Spider-Man 3 - heading into the multiverse?
OK I can’t wait any longer. Here comes the spoiler froth!
Spoiler:
Amazing film. Hit all the right notes. Not only do we get three Spideys for price of one, but also Matt Murdock (Charlie Cox), confirmation that the government (or at least one department) knows Nick Fury was off-world for Far From Home.
Wang is Sorceror Supreme due to Dusting of Strange.
Hint of Venom, with a clear indication at least part of him is now in the MCU. I’ve not seen Carnage yet, so unsure if that had a matching sting.
I really enjoyed the three Spideys shared screen time. We get a hint of what the previous two went on to (including Amazing no longer pulling his punches) and just an awful lot of quippy fun. Three awkward dudes being awkward. Bit fan servicey, and it may prove divisive there, but I enjoyed it.
Villains all make good sense, apart from Sandman suddenly turning arsehole for no reason (he just wanted to get back to his daughter after all). Not all the questions are answered, but I didn’t find it impacted my enjoyment any.
Second sting is basically our first trailer for Multiverse of Madness which looks….well. It’s either gonna rock big nads, or be bloody awful. I’m sure we did get a glimpse of Evil Dr Strange from What If? though.
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That was amazing! That was spectacular! That was friendly neighb... no wait that one doesn't make sense...
That was... fantastic. It really was. Enjoyed it from start to finish. That's easily my fav Spider-Man film, and is to the 7 preceding films (not that 5 of them were even considered 'preceding' before this) what Endgame is to the Avengers.
Anyway, spoiler time (long post!):
Spoiler:
I'll start with the one thing about the film I didn't like: The death of Aunt May. She did get to do the 'Greater Power/Great Responsibility" bit, which was touching, but it felt more like a "I want to be out of these films, please kill me off" than a "This is important for the story" thing. So overall not good, even though it did give us some great acting from Holland especially when he's getting angrier and angrier during Gobby's beat down at the end. Plus it also means we'll have endure the usual suspects screeching about 'Fridging' and other nonsense. *sigh*
Anyway, I thought this was simply brilliant, paying off everything from every Spidey film in ways that I never thought possible or imagined would ever happen.
We got a tremendous storyline for MCU-Peter, all about sacrifice, the aforementioned responsibility, and dealing with the consequences of one's actions. He learnt that even trying to reverse things leaves you in a situation that may not be ideal, and that you just have to make a new suit and keep on swinging. Stellar stuff from Holland in this one.
I was worried that Ned wouldn't get a lot to do in this one, but he and MJ got a pretty even spread of plotline, even though a lot of it was those two together. Still the guy in the chair, and calling "Peter" to a room full of Peter Parkers was very funny.
MJ was also good in this, especially as she was't so forcibly dark as she was in the previous two films, where it just came off as posing. She can be morose without trying to be an edgy teen with a chip on her shoulder, and here it worked very well.
Strange was fun, his arrogance always peeks through a little, and it's fun how in control he is for the most part. Dude is majorly powerful, far more than we give him credit for. Thanos only beat the man because of the stones, that's for sure.
The villains were top notch - all of them. Even from the briefest of glimpses, I thought that Sandman and Lizard would get the short shrift, and be relegated to growling/snarling monsters that are there because of nostalgia. But no, the original actors both came back, were both true to their characters from those films (turning everyone into lizards is still stupid, Dr. Connors), and their interactions were spot on. I especially liked how Sandman appeared and immediately started helping Peter, remembering that when we last saw Marko in Spider-Man 3, he was leaving not as Peter's friend, but certainly not as his enemy.
Electro was... wow. I like Jamie Foxx, and I'm happy he got to redeem that character from the train-wreck he was in ASM2. It's fun how he wasn't really down with the whole "give up my powers" thing, but not evil enough to just go against the group until Gobby went haywire.
Doc Oc was simply fantastic. I'll go on record and say that I do not like Spider-Man 2. I do not think it's as good as everyone makes it out to be, and one of my chief reasons is because I think the totally exposed and super-fething-fragile control chip that gets destroyed immediately the first damned time he uses it leading to the arms taking over is one of the dumbest plot points in any movie I've ever seen Completely ruined my suspension of disbelief and everything from there kinda fell flat.
But in this film, they dealt with that, they gave him wonderful villain moments, great interactions with him and Osborn, and then redeemed him by fixing it and having Doc Oc, as he was at the start of SM2, return to us. And then he even gets to be the Big Damn Hero™ at the end, helping to defuse the situation with Electro. Super cool.
And that leaves us with a surprising star of the show: Norman Osborn and the Green Goblin. I do not like Spider-Man 2, but I really like the first Raimi Spider-Man, even if Gobby is a bit Power Ranger villain-y ("We'll meet again, Spider-Man!"). Dafoe brought it, and brought it hard, selling the frightened Osborn who knows he's done wrong, and is terrified of what's inside him, and as the totally insane Green Goblin, hell-bent on killing Peter but only after he's made him suffer. The fact that it turns out he is the main villain of the piece was just wonderful writing, kind of like bringing everything back to the original Spider-Man movie. And he got to interact with Tobey-Peter as well. Wonderful stuff through and through. He enhanced an already excellent movie. "I'm something of a scientist myself...". Brilliant.
I went into the film thinking that, no, we weren't really going to get Tobey-Peter or Andrew-Peter. The villains were enough, and something else would explain why that bit of the trailer had the Lizard getting kicked in the face by no one. But nope, they both showed up, and it was more than just a cameo. They got real arcs to follow, we saw how they were very different. Tobey-Peter was more content, likely still married with MJ (and hopefully with a daughter - future 'Mayday' Parker!), and had gone on learning how to be a person and a hero. Andrew-Peter on the other hand, never got over Gwen's death, and became more bitter over time until he was no longer stopping his villains, but killing them.
Seeing Andrew-Peter almost begin to cry when he saved MCU-MJ was incredible. A really touching scene. It was a perfect use of his character, having him do something that he never could with his own love. I wouldn't call it 'redemption' per se, but certainly a fitting resolution to that, allowing him to move forward and change for the better. And his talk with Electro, another wonderful piece. Them coming to an understanding.
It was fun seeing Tobey-Peter again, especially as the older and wiser Spider-Man. Different vibe than Sweatpants-Peter from Into the Spider-Verse, who was more down on his luck/just kinda existing. This was a guy who took the lessons of Uncle Ben to heart, as we saw him in his three movies, but specifically never forgot them and continued to strive to be a hero. Plus we got to see him interact with Gobby and Doc Oc again, which was awesome.
It would be fun to get a glimpse at their respective worlds post-NWH. To see how this experience has affected they way they act as Spider-Men.
As for the three of them together, that was endless fun. They actually addressed the organic web shooters! That was frickin' amazing. And Andrew-Peter "I fought a Russian guy in a Rhino suit...". Wonderful stuff. "Great. What's an Avenger?". The right kind of fan service and referencing. It actually enhanced their growing camaraderie, and was an element of them eventually having to learn to work as a team (a very new concept for the two interlopers!).
The Eddie/Venom cameo was a nice touch, and man I hope that leftover bit of symbiote leads us somewhere cool. I thought Venom was ok (haven't seen the sequel), but I love the characterisation/voice of Venom (and that it's Tom Hardy doing the voice!). That was cool, even if he didn't get to stick around long.
My fav cameo was Matt Murdock. If you'll excuse the pun, I genuinely did not see that coming. His sudden appearance got the biggest rise from the audience (other than then other two Spideys). It was one scene, but it was just great. And he got the best line of the film, IMO:
"How did you catch that?" "I'm a very good lawyer."
Two Netflix characters brought into the MCU in a week. Keep it up Feige. Keep it up!
So overall I thought this was terrific from start to finish. Only one thing I didn't like, as mentioned above, but beyond that just an outstanding effort from all involved. Pays off so much we never even dared dream of. I cannot wait to see it again.
I give it 9 Goblin Bombs out of 10!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/18 06:44:24
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Right, booked in for tomorrow, and it seems to be getting universally positive reviews.
None of which I’ve read, as I don’t want any spoilers at all. When it comes to the MCU, the blinder I go in the better!
One of the most bizarre things I've read recently. I mean, not wanting spoilers from a Marvel movie. Like they're all so unique and you never know what to expect from them in the first place.
As for me, I'd rather eat dried-up dog gak than have to watch a Marvel movie, but to each their own.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Right, booked in for tomorrow, and it seems to be getting universally positive reviews.
None of which I’ve read, as I don’t want any spoilers at all. When it comes to the MCU, the blinder I go in the better!
One of the most bizarre things I've read recently. I mean, not wanting spoilers from a Marvel movie. Like they're all so unique and you never know what to expect from them in the first place.
As for me, I'd rather eat dried-up dog gak than have to watch a Marvel movie, but to each their own.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That was amazing!
That was spectacular!
That was friendly neighb... no wait that one doesn't make sense...
That was... fantastic. It really was. Enjoyed it from start to finish. That's easily my fav Spider-Man film, and is to the 7 preceding films (not that 5 of them were even considered 'preceding' before this) what Endgame is to the Avengers.
Anyway, spoiler time (long post!):
Spoiler:
I'll start with the one thing about the film I didn't like: The death of Aunt May. She did get to do the 'Greater Power/Great Responsibility" bit, which was touching, but it felt more like a "I want to be out of these films, please kill me off" than a "This is important for the story" thing. So overall not good, even though it did give us some great acting from Holland especially when he's getting angrier and angrier during Gobby's beat down at the end. Plus it also means we'll have endure the usual suspects screeching about 'Fridging' and other nonsense. *sigh*
Anyway, I thought this was simply brilliant, paying off everything from every Spidey film in ways that I never thought possible or imagined would ever happen.
We got a tremendous storyline for MCU-Peter, all about sacrifice, the aforementioned responsibility, and dealing with the consequences of one's actions. He learnt that even trying to reverse things leaves you in a situation that may not be ideal, and that you just have to make a new suit and keep on swinging. Stellar stuff from Holland in this one.
I was worried that Ned wouldn't get a lot to do in this one, but he and MJ got a pretty even spread of plotline, even though a lot of it was those two together. Still the guy in the chair, and calling "Peter" to a room full of Peter Parkers was very funny.
MJ was also good in this, especially as she was't so forcibly dark as she was in the previous two films, where it just came off as posing. She can be morose without trying to be an edgy teen with a chip on her shoulder, and here it worked very well.
Strange was fun, his arrogance always peeks through a little, and it's fun how in control he is for the most part. Dude is majorly powerful, far more than we give him credit for. Thanos only beat the man because of the stones, that's for sure.
The villains were top notch - all of them. Even from the briefest of glimpses, I thought that Sandman and Lizard would get the short shrift, and be relegated to growling/snarling monsters that are there because of nostalgia. But no, the original actors both came back, were both true to their characters from those films (turning everyone into lizards is still stupid, Dr. Connors), and their interactions were spot on. I especially liked how Sandman appeared and immediately started helping Peter, remembering that when we last saw Marko in Spider-Man 3, he was leaving not as Peter's friend, but certainly not as his enemy.
Electro was... wow. I like Jamie Foxx, and I'm happy he got to redeem that character from the train-wreck he was in ASM2. It's fun how he wasn't really down with the whole "give up my powers" thing, but not evil enough to just go against the group until Gobby went haywire.
Doc Oc was simply fantastic. I'll go on record and say that I do not like Spider-Man 2. I do not think it's as good as everyone makes it out to be, and one of my chief reasons is because I think the totally exposed and super-fething-fragile control chip that gets destroyed immediately the first damned time he uses it leading to the arms taking over is one of the dumbest plot points in any movie I've ever seen Completely ruined my suspension of disbelief and everything from there kinda fell flat.
But in this film, they dealt with that, they gave him wonderful villain moments, great interactions with him and Osborn, and then redeemed him by fixing it and having Doc Oc, as he was at the start of SM2, return to us. And then he even gets to be the Big Damn Hero™ at the end, helping to defuse the situation with Electro. Super cool.
And that leaves us with a surprising star of the show: Norman Osborn and the Green Goblin. I do not like Spider-Man 2, but I really like the first Raimi Spider-Man, even if Gobby is a bit Power Ranger villain-y ("We'll meet again, Spider-Man!"). Dafoe brought it, and brought it hard, selling the frightened Osborn who knows he's done wrong, and is terrified of what's inside him, and as the totally insane Green Goblin, hell-bent on killing Peter but only after he's made him suffer. The fact that it turns out he is the main villain of the piece was just wonderful writing, kind of like bringing everything back to the original Spider-Man movie. And he got to interact with Tobey-Peter as well. Wonderful stuff through and through. He enhanced an already excellent movie. "I'm something of a scientist myself...". Brilliant.
I went into the film thinking that, no, we weren't really going to get Tobey-Peter or Andrew-Peter. The villains were enough, and something else would explain why that bit of the trailer had the Lizard getting kicked in the face by no one. But nope, they both showed up, and it was more than just a cameo. They got real arcs to follow, we saw how they were very different. Tobey-Peter was more content, likely still married with MJ (and hopefully with a daughter - future 'Mayday' Parker!), and had gone on learning how to be a person and a hero. Andrew-Peter on the other hand, never got over Gwen's death, and became more bitter over time until he was no longer stopping his villains, but killing them.
Seeing Andrew-Peter almost begin to cry when he saved MCU-MJ was incredible. A really touching scene. It was a perfect use of his character, having him do something that he never could with his own love. I wouldn't call it 'redemption' per se, but certainly a fitting resolution to that, allowing him to move forward and change for the better. And his talk with Electro, another wonderful piece. Them coming to an understanding.
It was fun seeing Tobey-Peter again, especially as the older and wiser Spider-Man. Different vibe than Sweatpants-Peter from Into the Spider-Verse, who was more down on his luck/just kinda existing. This was a guy who took the lessons of Uncle Ben to heart, as we saw him in his three movies, but specifically never forgot them and continued to strive to be a hero. Plus we got to see him interact with Gobby and Doc Oc again, which was awesome.
It would be fun to get a glimpse at their respective worlds post-NWH. To see how this experience has affected they way they act as Spider-Men.
As for the three of them together, that was endless fun. They actually addressed the organic web shooters! That was frickin' amazing. And Andrew-Peter "I fought a Russian guy in a Rhino suit...". Wonderful stuff. "Great. What's an Avenger?". The right kind of fan service and referencing. It actually enhanced their growing camaraderie, and was an element of them eventually having to learn to work as a team (a very new concept for the two interlopers!).
The Eddie/Venom cameo was a nice touch, and man I hope that leftover bit of symbiote leads us somewhere cool. I thought Venom was ok (haven't seen the sequel), but I love the characterisation/voice of Venom (and that it's Tom Hardy doing the voice!). That was cool, even if he didn't get to stick around long.
My fav cameo was Matt Murdock. If you'll excuse the pun, I genuinely did not see that coming. His sudden appearance got the biggest rise from the audience (other than then other two Spideys). It was one scene, but it was just great. And he got the best line of the film, IMO:
"How did you catch that?"
"I'm a very good lawyer."
Two Netflix characters brought into the MCU in a week. Keep it up Feige. Keep it up!
So overall I thought this was terrific from start to finish. Only one thing I didn't like, as mentioned above, but beyond that just an outstanding effort from all involved. Pays off so much we never even dared dream of. I cannot wait to see it again.
I give it 9 Goblin Bombs out of 10!
Also alsö….
Spoiler:
It gives us an inkling of how we might see the other existing Marvel properties semi-folded into the main dish, or at least presented as some kind of delightful side dish.
And that’s something very open for the House of Mouse to take advantage of, what with them buying Fox and thus gaining back two prime properties in X-Men and Fantastic 4. Especially when you consider Mr Fantastic is keen on a bit of reality hopping in the comics.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
