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gorgon wrote: We should remember Brian and KJA wrote the novels after Chapterhouse based on Frank's notes. In which it's revealed that
Spoiler:
the enemy the Honored Matres fled from was the AI that the humans defeated during the Butlerian Jihad. So it would seem that Frank envisioned the machines as a fairly malevolent force. Although the ending is also pure Frank Herbert.
And it made sense then why the authors chose to tell the story of the Jihad era first (well, other than rea$on$). It familiarized readers with the ultimate villain better than just pulling an AI out of a hat in the final book or two as Frank apparently intended. Surprise!
That doesn’t fit in with how the Butlerian Jihad is explained in God Emperor if Dune. It was against human beings using thinking machines to control the masses and weaken human society, not against the thinking machines themselves. The AI were a tool that allowed men to enslave other men, essentially.
The prequels explain that there were humans who used AI to seize control and build an empire. However, over time an AI grew more and more powerful and eventually took over. The aforementioned humans - now cyborgs in order to avoid death from old age - eventually rebelled against the AI and failed, IIRC. The Butlerian Jihad was a revolt by humans against that same AI.
It’s all a little batgak crazy, but one could say that about any of the books after Children.
I admittedly don’t remember God Emperor classifying the Jihad as being about philosophical differences.
It's visually excellent and the sound design is very good. The acting is good enough. Jessica is the standout of the cast. No one else really got anything to work with to be fair.
It's extremely lacking in dialogue and exposition. I know what's going on and going to happen because I've read the novel, but the actual story shown onscreen is extremely barebones. In that sense the Lynch version is dramatically better despite being an inferior film as a whole.
Cutting out the Atreides dinner party on Arrakis was the nail in the coffin for me. It's an excellent seen to develop the political, cultural, and religious situation and it's just not there. On a whole, the movie is utterly devoid of life. It's all surface.
Edit: Did CHOAM even get mentioned by name?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/29 04:25:08
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
Stevefamine wrote: Movie was 9/10 but seemed rushed. I wanted the extended 3.5 hour version like that have with LOTR
True enough to the book
Scuttlebutt is that the banquet scene was written and maybe even filmed. So yeah…bring on that extended cut.
Squee if true! That’s one of my favourite passages in the book; if they make an extended version including that kind of stuff, it could be up there with LoTR in my collection.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
Manchu wrote: As to the issue of “good guys” and “bad guys” — Dune doesn’t deal with these categories.
Frank Herbert did for science fiction what Machiavelli did for political ethics. Is it better for a prince to be loved or feared? It’s tempting to judge Leto and Vladimir by their methodologies but when judged by their motives they are not necessarily so different. Whether by inspiring loyalty pledged willingly or extorting it through terror, both houses seek to maintain their power. Looking at things this way, the crucial question is just which approach is more effective.
This is why it is so critical to Herbert’s narrative that Atreides is defeated through betrayal. Whatever moral high ground it seemingly occupies did not ultimately achieve its goal. In fact, this same appearance of nobility is what made Atreides the target for Shaddam’s schemes in the first place, given it earned too much esteem in the Landsraad.
In Paul, we have the Machiavellian ideal: to be both loved and feared — indeed, to receive love and fear together in a blend of quasi-religious reverence. But nonetheless, to what end? Nothing more than the same dream of power.
Dune, just like "the Prince" to some extent, is a cautionary tale of following charismatic leaders, so the themes from one are heavily present in the other.
I've only recently got into Dune stuff so could be wrong, but originally thinking machines were outlawed because they were seen as stunting human mental development. I think the author's son changed it into some sort of "Terminator-esque" AI that humanity fought a war for survival against.
The Butlerian Jihad existed in the original source (before Brian and KJA got off on well, everything). The specific events are left fairly vague, but it involved AI, and AI aligned humans, being overthrown in a religious crusade to "free" humanity from their "control". There are few if any concrete details from that era in the core novels, and it largely acts as an allegorical underpinning to the setting.
From memory the trigger was a medical service deciding to conduct abortions without reference to any people and based on its own reasoning (the ultimate American nightmare?). The Jihad was originally against the machines and people who relied on them. Trillions died as their habitats and numbers were unsustainable without AI assistance, or they were killed by the Jihadists for being seen as slaves to machines. The starting world was left behind and ironically had more tech ultimately than others where IT was more systematically destroyed. That went on to be the IX system and source of borderline tech for the Imperium.
I am generally pretty aligned with your views on films but your thoughts here are a real cringetake, especially the idea that the 1984 picture is “dramatically better.” The lack of tedious and heavy handed expository sequences alone, completely apart from anything else, make DV’s picture stand head and shoulders above the older one.
EDIT: to clarify, I say this as someone with massive affection for the ‘84 film
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/29 17:01:24
Stevefamine wrote: Movie was 9/10 but seemed rushed. I wanted the extended 3.5 hour version like that have with LOTR
True enough to the book
Scuttlebutt is that the banquet scene was written and maybe even filmed. So yeah…bring on that extended cut.
Squee if true! That’s one of my favourite passages in the book; if they make an extended version including that kind of stuff, it could be up there with LoTR in my collection.
Frank Herbert was far more gracious than he should have been to the Lynch film, but that was how he rolled. He rolled with it, a philosophy that comes up a lot in his writing, LOL. But he did say that the exclusion of the banquet scene was his big regret. It's possible that Lynch filmed it.
I think that scene is terrific, but it also helps establish some of the factions involved, what Leto is trying to do, and Paul's wisdom beyond his years. I understand why it didn't make it and I realize it'd be tricky to film...but it'd be a welcome addition to any extended cut.
Regarding CHOAM, it's more important to the book than THIS film. Which is an adaptation striving to get the themes right rather than cram in every player. And they got so many details right...many of which you can miss. It was on the second viewing when I noticed Stilgar's Fremen drawing their own blood before sheathing their crysknives...as is proper if you haven't drawn it from someone else.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/29 21:24:20
Spot on, Gorgon. DV decided to prioritize theme over setting minutia. This is why he focuses on Jessica’s internal conflicts rather than weighing down his movie with exposition about mentats, the Suk school, galactic economics, etc, etc.
Let’s not forget, the 1984 film repudiated by David Lynch begins with no less than THREE back-to-back exposition dumps. The TV cut of the film added yet another exposition dump, a voice over slide show, as a prelude.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/29 21:50:22
Watched it for the third time(at least, I keep watching clips on youtube and reviews/breakdowns).
Rebecca Ferguson was amazing. She wasn’t on my radar before this movie, as most of her work isn’t my kind of thing, though I’ve been meaning to watch Doctor Sleep for awhile now. Brought so much more emotion to the table then the other, more taciturn characters just weren’t capable of bringing, like being frightened that Paul knew she was pregnant, all her doubting throughout and fears around the other Bene Gesseret women etc etc.
I can’t explain why but the scene of the throat singing priest and all of the stone faced Sardarkaur killers getting getting blessed with blood or some such really sticks in my head.
Also part of that scene was Piter De Vries. Not being too familiar with the source material (never read the books, the movie seemed too weird when I was a kid and the TV show looked like the highest budgeted High School play ever), I assumed he had a much bigger part to play based on promos for the movie. Was genuinely shocked to see him get killed when Atreides poisoned the room. Seemed like such a devious character and he gets whacked early.
Another standout scene that I felt was dope as feth was the Benet Gesseret arrival to the planet. So freaky with the chanting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/30 02:17:25
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
It wasn't as bad on the big screen but when streaming it at home the Sardaurkar outfits looked like NASA space suits from a 70s B sci-fi movie/tv show.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Also part of that scene was Piter De Vries. Not being too familiar with the source material (never read the books, the movie seemed too weird when I was a kid and the TV show looked like the highest budgeted High School play ever), I assumed he had a much bigger part to play based on promos for the movie. Was genuinely shocked to see him get killed when Atreides poisoned the room. Seemed like such a devious character and he gets whacked early.
Yeah, Piter bites it in the book in that part. In pretty much the same way. The interrogation of Leto by the Baron. The Baron, having the benefit of suspensors bolts for dear life. Piter, being closer to Leto, has no chance. Nobody really has a good life working for the Baron. The best they can hope for is a horrible death. The baron demands absolute loyalty from all, but displays no loyalty to anyone else. He pays obeisance to the Emperor, but he'd stab him in the throat given half a chance.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
I love that scene on Salusa Secundus; no need for lots of exposition about how terrifying and dangerous the Sardaukar are, just show them being ominous as feth!
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
I watched the film today in a mostly empty theater (no more than 20 people, including myself). I enjoyed the heck out of it. Standouts for me include:
-The dragonfly ornithopters. I have never been able to wrap my head around a heavier-than-air machine could fly like a bird. This was, to me, a good solution.
-multi-ethnic Fremen. The book mentions that the people in the villages prefer Fremen spouses, so it would make sense that there would be a variety of features.
-All the time spent on Caladan with the Duke interacting with Paul. DUke Leto is a presence in the book, but he's more of a person here.
-Caladan itself, with the near constant rainfall, offered a lovely contrast to Arrakis.
-The balloon bombs sneaking through the shields during the invasion of Arrakis.
-All the dust. Everything is dusty and grey.
I kind of wish Thufir Hawat and Piter de Vries had gotten more development, but was pleasantly surprised at how Dr. Yueh was presented-- not the sudden betrayal, but the touchy-feely doctoring. As written, he comes across as a pill-pusher, but in the movie he's presented as another heightened human, which I thought was really cool.
I have a day off to myself in about a week, and may well go again.
Jadenim wrote: I struggle to even class the Fremen as “good guys” definitely the underdogs, but a brutal, utilitarian society that’s big on death cults, mortal combat and religious war hardly counts as “good”.
That reads remarkably like the current default argument of colonial apologism. I don't know what that implies about Dune as political commentary.
Spoiler:
It implies Dune was written in the fifties? While the Fremen society isn't one I'd want to live in, or even encourage, before meeting Paul, their ambitions were essentially isolationist. They wanted to make Arrakis green, and for the rest of the Imperium to go away. It was only after the mighty whitey Paul turned up that they considered looking outwards and became the force of destruction they became.
I'm not sure what Frank Herbert's view on the Fremen (and by extension, the populations of Arabia, the middle east and Afghanistan) were, but it was pretty clear that their society had been made what it is in the novels by outside interference - slavery on various planets before arriving on Arrakis, and the religious interference of the Bene Gesserit. If ou want to reduce Dune to a political allegory, I'd say it's that exploiting the people of Arabia and Mesopotamia for oil won't end well. I'd say he was pretty spot on there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JoshInJapan wrote: I watched the film today in a mostly empty theater (no more than 20 people, including myself). I enjoyed the heck out of it. Standouts for me include:
-The dragonfly ornithopters. I have never been able to wrap my head around a heavier-than-air machine could fly like a bird. This was, to me, a good solution
Visually, I thought they looked cool, but not quite how I pictured them from the books; IIRC they're described as having jet engines as well as the wings. I've always pictured them as using the wings for lift and the engines for thrust, with the wings being much more mechanically complex than aircraft wings. But that's my problem, not the film's.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/30 12:38:27
I'm not sure what Frank Herbert's view on the Fremen (and by extension, the populations of Arabia, the middle east and Afghanistan) were, but it was pretty clear that their society had been made what it is in the novels by outside interference - slavery on various planets before arriving on Arrakis, and the religious interference of the Bene Gesserit. If ou want to reduce Dune to a political allegory, I'd say it's that exploiting the people of Arabia and Mesopotamia for oil won't end well. I'd say he was pretty spot on there.
Herbert said himself that its not a white saviour story as such because its a warning not to blindly follow messianic people and blindly trust their words, look at the horrors unleashed because of Paul and the decisions he made, we could learn a lot by not zealously following a cause and demagogues that push them, the book it anti government, religion, powerful institutions and movements.
"Don't trust leaders to always be right"
Frank Herbert
Visually, I thought they looked cool, but not quite how I pictured them from the books; IIRC they're described as having jet engines as well as the wings. I've always pictured them as using the wings for lift and the engines for thrust, with the wings being much more mechanically complex than aircraft wings. But that's my problem, not the film's.
In the sandstorm, Paul retracts the wing and fires the engines to climb through the storm. IIRC
Visually, I thought they looked cool, but not quite how I pictured them from the books; IIRC they're described as having jet engines as well as the wings. I've always pictured them as using the wings for lift and the engines for thrust, with the wings being much more mechanically complex than aircraft wings. But that's my problem, not the film's.
In the sandstorm, Paul retracts the wing and fires the engines to climb through the storm. IIRC
You do RC.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I watched Dune in the cinema today. Probably everything that could be said about the film has already been said in the last 7 pages but I figure I might as well throw in my opinion. Because, well, why not?
For me what struck me most about this film when comparing it to the first half of the 1984 version was that this film simply feels less epic. A lot of the scenes are very close up, with just one or two people in the shot. Some of the big conmparisons seem obvious to me when comparing the two films side by side, this film just seems a lot smaller. The most glaring comparison:
Spoiler:
When the Harkonnens attack the Atreides. The raid was just much less grandiose in this film.
I just felt that ViIleneuve could have made more with the material, with the events that transpire in this section.
I was also not convinced too much by Rebecca Ferguson as Lady Jessica. Not sure exactly why. Perhaps it's because I felt that the role in the 1984 version was played so well the version we saw in this film didn't live up to it.
Speaking of specific actors, I thought Jason Mamoa was fine. Not the strongest actor in the film, but he didn't stick out as a problem for me. Perhaps he could have played the role in a less "Mamoa-like" way, but he got the job done. Overall I felt that the casting was good enough, though some characters (Jessica as mentioned, also Duke Leto) were not played with the same gravitas as in the 1984 film. A lot has been said about Skarsgard's version of the Baron. I thought he was fine, not necessarily better than the 1984 version of him though.
The next observation I will put in spoiler tags:
Spoiler:
It was a shame not to see the Emperor at all in this film. His early scenes (including the opening scene) in the 1984 version are some of my favourite parts and I felt that a trick was missed by not having the top down view that he had in that film. No doubt he'll be making an appearance in Part Two.
However nit picking aside I did enjoy the film. I think it's about as good a version as we could have hoped for, all these years after the first film. I think a lot of my concerns come from the fact that I really like the 1984 version (especially the first half) and I'm conscious that Villeneuve wasn't trying to remake that film, he was making his own adaptation of the book. I'm relatively confident as well that when we're eventually able to watch both films back to back it will make for very satisfying viewing. I'm very happy that Part Two has been greenlit already, my nerd rage would be strong if that film wasn't in the works.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/30 18:39:46
Spoilered just in case someone’s reading this by accident and doesn’t want any spoilers…
Spoiler:
I didn’t mind the Dr. Kynes gender-swap. Kynes’ gender was irrelevant in the book, so the change was really not an issue to me. What I didn’t like as much was the change in how she died. They missed a chance to introduce the whole Shai-hulud life cycle, the Water of Life, and the Spice Blow background by just having her be stabbed and then swallowed by a Shai-Hulud.
Wasn’t really a fan of the armor suits, especially for the Fremen. I never envisioned them as wearing more than stilsuits.
I also thought the actress playing Lady Jessica over-acted the role from time to time. The Lady Jessica a full-on bloody Bene Gesserit. She should not be weeping and sobbing that much.
Not really a fair criticism, but every time I saw Beast Raban, I kept thinking to my self “why is Drax in this movie”? Jason Momoa as Duncan Idaho didn’t cause quite the same reaction for me as David Bautista did... But in Bautista’s defense, he’s otherwise a perfect casting choice. He certainly looks the part…
Similarly, I didn’t like how they depicted the physical mark of Mentats’ use of Sapho. I kept expecting Jeff Goldblume or Benicio Del Toro to show up…
Oh, and were is Feyd Rautha? Or Irina? And no mention of the Family Atomics? That might make for a fairly deus ex machina finish if they suddenly introduce them.
And for that matter, I always thought of the shield wall as a natural barrier not a man-made one. But that might either be me misreading the book or my memory of the old Dune board game, which quickly replaced Risk as our family go-to family game when it came out, and how its map of Arrakis depicted the Shield Wall.
What I definitely was not a fan of was the audio in the iMax theater we saw it in. WAAAY to loud on the loud sounds and WAAAY to quite on the soft sounds. Distractingly annoyingly so. But that might be an iMax thing
That was also amplified by some of the jump cuts. Made it really hard to follow things, even knowing the book…
Finally, there were times when I really wanted the movie to move on. More than a few shots were just longer than they needed to be for me.
Still, all in all, I really liked it. I was never a fan of the Lynch version. Glad to see a big screen adaption that tries to be true to the source material. Will definitely see the sequel when it comes out!
Valete,
JohnS
Valete,
JohnS
"You don't believe data - you test data. If I could put my finger on the moment we genuinely <expletive deleted> ourselves, it was the moment we decided that data was something you could use words like believe or disbelieve around"
"I conceived of a long novel, the whole trilogy as one book about the messianic convulsions that periodically overtake us. Demagogues, fanatics, con-game artists, the innocent and the not-so-innocent bystanders-all were to have a part in the drama. This grows from my theory that superheroes are disastrous for humankind. Even if we find a real hero (whatever-or whoever-that may be), eventually fallible mortals take over the power structure that always comes into being around such a leader.
This, then, was one of my themes for Dune: Don't give over all of your critical faculties to people in power, no matter how admirable those people may appear to be. Beneath the hero's facade you will find a human being who makes human mistakes. Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand scale available to a superhero.
It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant proportion of such people are imbalanced-in a word, insane.
That was the beginning. Heroes are painful, superheroes are a catastrophe. The mistakes of superheroes involve too many of us in disaster."
"I conceived of a long novel, the whole trilogy as one book about the messianic convulsions that periodically overtake us. Demagogues, fanatics, con-game artists, the innocent and the not-so-innocent bystanders-all were to have a part in the drama. This grows from my theory that superheroes are disastrous for humankind. Even if we find a real hero (whatever-or whoever-that may be), eventually fallible mortals take over the power structure that always comes into being around such a leader.
This, then, was one of my themes for Dune: Don't give over all of your critical faculties to people in power, no matter how admirable those people may appear to be. Beneath the hero's facade you will find a human being who makes human mistakes. Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand scale available to a superhero.
It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant proportion of such people are imbalanced-in a word, insane.
That was the beginning. Heroes are painful, superheroes are a catastrophe. The mistakes of superheroes involve too many of us in disaster."
-Frank Herbert, on creation of Dune
Well, fortunately the world left that danger in the dust a long time ago.
Finally got to watch it, I love it. Never seen the 1984 movie, so my only other frame of reference (beyond the books) was the early 2000s miniseries and video games.
The brutalist tech design is a curious one, but I did love how high-tech it looked without going for the ipod aesthetic for the spaceships, compared to the more utilitarian arrakis vehicles.
Overall I had a very good time with the movie. Strangely, the points raised about it not being "epic" sound weird to me, because to me, Dune was never really "epic"? Even the big fights always read like small, confusing melees instead of any sort huge armies clashing in the book, because we focus on a handful of characters, so the movie fit what I already had in mind in this regard.
Saw it today. Great film over all, but at times the pacing seemed off. As others have said a few scenes just lingered on a visual for a few seconds longer than they should have.
I also felt some of the weirdness of the universe had been left out. The navigators and the need for using spice to travel between worlds is skipped over completely.
Could also have given us the emperor a bit, to show the political scheming that triggered the whole story.
I do love that they go the show don’t tell route, but wonder if that’s the problem. The stuff that was too hard/involved to show was just left out instead.
it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. Their the ones that change the world, the loud ones just take the credit for it.
Tamereth wrote: Saw it today. Great film over all, but at times the pacing seemed off. As others have said a few scenes just lingered on a visual for a few seconds longer than they should have. I also felt some of the weirdness of the universe had been left out. The navigators and the need for using spice to travel between worlds is skipped over completely. Could also have given us the emperor a bit, to show the political scheming that triggered the whole story. I do love that they go the show don’t tell route, but wonder if that’s the problem. The stuff that was too hard/involved to show was just left out instead.
Well, they DO show some of the mid teir navigators when the emperors delegation shows up to ritually give Arrakis on Calladan. They were the ones in orange smoke filled fully sealed suits. Orange smoke filled because they were filled with Malange. Granted... NONE of that was explained. But as you said, they showed instead of telling. It was there for those that read the books.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/31 22:50:07
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Tamereth wrote: Saw it today. Great film over all, but at times the pacing seemed off. As others have said a few scenes just lingered on a visual for a few seconds longer than they should have.
I also felt some of the weirdness of the universe had been left out. The navigators and the need for using spice to travel between worlds is skipped over completely.
Could also have given us the emperor a bit, to show the political scheming that triggered the whole story.
I do love that they go the show don’t tell route, but wonder if that’s the problem. The stuff that was too hard/involved to show was just left out instead.
The spice isn't needed for space travel, just for ACCURATE space travel.
The spice extends life, expands the consciousness and in some, allows prescience. It's also addictive and once addicted, you must HAVE the spice, or you die.
The drive system of the highliners is what folds space - the navigators use the spice prescience to 'see' the safest way to plot the exit point, not for the travel itself.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
Tamereth wrote: Saw it today. Great film over all, but at times the pacing seemed off. As others have said a few scenes just lingered on a visual for a few seconds longer than they should have.
I also felt some of the weirdness of the universe had been left out. The navigators and the need for using spice to travel between worlds is skipped over completely.
Could also have given us the emperor a bit, to show the political scheming that triggered the whole story.
I do love that they go the show don’t tell route, but wonder if that’s the problem. The stuff that was too hard/involved to show was just left out instead.
The spice isn't needed for space travel, just for ACCURATE space travel.
The spice extends life, expands the consciousness and in some, allows prescience. It's also addictive and once addicted, you must HAVE the spice, or you die.
The drive system of the highliners is what folds space - the navigators use the spice prescience to 'see' the safest way to plot the exit point, not for the travel itself.
I think the thing is without Spice, Space Travel is basically super dangerous to the point where it becomes almost unsustainable at the rate at which the Empire relies on it at that point in time.
I'd say it means that whilst spice isn't part of the folding engine; its part of the whole package of space travel.
My understanding was that the spice was absolutely necessary for space travel, hence the 'he who controls the spice, controls the universe' quote? It also had to be an inordinately rich gift by the Emperor to the Atreidies to get them to leave Caladan and then make themselves vulnerable in doing so.
Went to see the film yesterday and WOW. What a truly outstanding piece of film making. I first read the books when I was a teenager and it was almost as if the characters in the film had been plucked from my head, it so closely matched my imagination and conception of them. Everything about it; the casting, the cinematography (the visuals, audio and score), the pacing but most importantly perhaps the script and storytelling. There was a good reason that Dune had been considered unfilmable for many years, with only David Lynch having the pre-requisite level of insanity and then I think his attempt giving creators and studios cold feet for many years. There is just so much exposition, so much going on behind the character's eyelids, and a really rich sci-fi universe full of made-up terminology and concepts; for me the chief success of Dune is that it managed to convey these concepts to complete newbies successfully. I went to the film with someone who hadn't read the books, hadn't seen the Lynch film or TV series, and yet pretty much understood all of it and was drawn into the story and universe (think pretty much the only thing I had to explain was why they must FEAR THE GOM JABBAR!) Therefore I can kind of forgive some of the omissions; the mentions of spice for space travel, the use of mentats etc. as I think the film managed the balancing act of capturing the essence of the books (and portraying them oh so beautifully) while still keeping it palatable for people unfamiliar with the story.
I will say my film of the year so far, and I'm super glad that they have green-lit the second part as it would have been an utter travesty if Villeneuve wasn't given a chance to finish the story.
Out of interest has anyone seen it in both standard viewing and IMAX and if so is it worth seeing it in the 3D format?
While the Fremen society isn't one I'd want to live in, or even encourage, before meeting Paul, their ambitions were essentially isolationist. They wanted to make Arrakis green, and for the rest of the Imperium to go away. It was only after the mighty whitey Paul turned up that they considered looking outwards and became the force of destruction they became.
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