Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
So if it's just you soldiers you agree that things like this are silly (they're just toy soldiers after all, and gatekeeping is bad last I checked), which means it shouldn't have been a rule to begin with.
Thanks for playing.
It ain't a rule. It's a bonus when determining victory points.
It's effectively extra credit.
No it isn't, because extra credit doesn't cause other students to fail if they didn't complete it.
The "non-painted student" can still win.
But is there a chance for the non painting student to fail if another student does their extra credit?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
But is there a chance for the non painting student to fail if another student does their extra credit?
Are there zero sum classrooms out there somewhere? Maybe.
Either way the painted points are only 10% of the total, so the majority of the outcome isn't determined by paint.
But the outcome of the game IS partially determined by that. The game is PvP and you either win or lose. Doing a test is nothing like that, hence why saying "but it's extra credit" is REALLY incorrect.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Insectum7 wrote: ^If you want to be at the top of your class you should paint your models.
And does being at the top of the class mean the other students fail?
It means the other students aren't the top of the class. They still put in the effort and learn from the class. . . which is the point of a class.
In 40K you can still play and have a good time even if you don't win. . . which is the point of the game.
If, for you, the point of the game is to win in a meta that uses this rule. .. painting your models will help you get there. But it still isn't even required.
Well, in a college class graded on a curve students will fail because others performed better. My organic chem was brutal, the median score was something like 30% but the average was closer to 40 due to a couple star students. That bumps a lot of students at the bottom into non-passing grades. So tangential to the conversation but, yes, those bottom students failed because some other students did better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 20:27:38
Gert wrote: Fully done with this nonsense. Getting called elitist because I paint my models for a miniatures-based tabletop game is literally impossible to argue against. Not because it's a good argument but because anyone making it is clearly not having the discussion in good faith or even intends to take another viewpoint into consideration.
You aren’t acting elitist because you like painting.
You’re acting elitist because you say everyone else has to like painting too.
The models come unpainted because they are intended to be painted. I get some people just want to play the game but the game actually sucks...the rules are terrible. You are ruining the best part of the hobby by not painting you stuff...
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Gert wrote: Fully done with this nonsense. Getting called elitist because I paint my models for a miniatures-based tabletop game is literally impossible to argue against. Not because it's a good argument but because anyone making it is clearly not having the discussion in good faith or even intends to take another viewpoint into consideration.
You aren’t acting elitist because you like painting.
You’re acting elitist because you say everyone else has to like painting too.
The models come unpainted because they are intended to be painted. I get some people just want to play the game but the game actually sucks...the rules are terrible. You are ruining the best part of the hobby by not painting you stuff...
That is your opinion. It’s fine that you have it, but it is not universal.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Nothing...
Nothing wrong with drinking Natty light ether...but if you are drinking Natty light and most everyone around you is drinking fine wine...maybe you should just...move on to better things?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Nothing...
Nothing wrong with drinking Natty light ether...but if you are drinking Natty light and most everyone around you is drinking fine wine...maybe you should just...move on to better things?
Nah, Feth fine wine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 20:30:39
Insectum7 wrote: ^If you want to be at the top of your class you should paint your models.
And does being at the top of the class mean the other students fail?
No. It means they come in second, or third. Are those fails?
When it's a game with a designated winner and loses, absolutely.
When you're playing a game of 40k you don't "come in second", you just lose LOL
So your argument is that it’s unfair for someone to beat you because they took more time to prepare for the game/test/competition.
I hate to break it to you, but that’s life. If winning is that important to you, then put the extra effort in. Otherwise, play for fun. It’s a viable option too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 20:33:17
So if it's just you soldiers you agree that things like this are silly (they're just toy soldiers after all, and gatekeeping is bad last I checked), which means it shouldn't have been a rule to begin with.
Thanks for playing.
It ain't a rule. It's a bonus when determining victory points.
It's effectively extra credit.
No it isn't, because extra credit doesn't cause other students to fail if they didn't complete it.
Got a better analogy?
It is. Because the player with the unpainted army doesn't fail. They may lose the game, but that is immaterial. Failing is failing to have fun yourself and/or obstructing the fun of your opponent. One can win every game and still be a complete failure at Warhammer, just as one can do nothing but lose them and still be extremely successful.
Nothing...
Nothing wrong with drinking Natty light ether...but if you are drinking Natty light and most everyone around you is drinking fine wine...maybe you should just...move on to better things?
Nah, Feth fine wine.
Perhaps you'd prefer a fine glass on scotch?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Insectum7 wrote: ^If you want to be at the top of your class you should paint your models.
And does being at the top of the class mean the other students fail?
No. It means they come in second, or third. Are those fails?
When it's a game with a designated winner and loses, absolutely.
When you're playing a game of 40k you don't "come in second", you just lose LOL
So your argument is that it’s unfair for someone to beat you because they took more time to prepare for the game/test/competition.
I hate to break it to you, but that’s life.
They spent more time doing something only tangentially related to the game, it sure feels bad.
It’d be like tying in a chess match, and then the other guy being declared the winner because he’s dressed nicer.
No shoes, no shirt, no service.
A chess tournament might have a dress code to even enter, which is arguably more "elitist" or whatever, since you don't even get to play in the first place.
I think GW understands that 99% of players don't really care who wins in a casual game. Heck...in most casual games I completely ignore the objectives and try to table my opponent.
So the idea behind the rule is to get people painting their armies because it ends up making them more money in the long run. At the same time - it's great for the community because painted armies look better. So - a good rule IMO. It is a rule that is not actually intended to be followed though. It is a rule to encourge people to paint.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Yay.
It is a hobby with many facets, not a CCG ... scores should or at least could attaché to any of these. Painting and modelling should be one of these imho...
If it's for tournament games, then these are the rules, and 10 points are 10 points. You want 'em? Earn 'em.
If it's casual, then you have a brain. If you have a big enough brain to calculate that you would've won if not for those 10 points, you have a big enough brain to realize that you out-played your opponent, and that all you need to do to win the same game at a tournament is play at least as well, and finish painting your dudes.
This is exactly right. It's a testament to how much people like to argue that we continue to see these threads when the answer is so obvious. It it's an event, the TO makes the rules. If it's not, it doesn't matter - you can each play with your own version of the rule, and if that means you think you won and your opponent thinks they won because one of you is applying the rule and the other one isn't, that's just fine - you both won according to your own criteria.
It's a rule that quite literally does not matter unless you let it matter to you. This arguably makes it a bad rule, but it's completely unimportant whether it's a bad rule or not unless you let it bother you.
60PL 
12PL 