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Abaddon303 wrote:
I give up, i really wouldn't worry about it, I very rarely use Mutant Strain, there are better things to spend CP on. It's cute if it comes up.
If this is the most broken thing in 40K you've come across you are very fortunate...

Nah - probably between 4-6 mortal wounds for 1 cp is about the best use of CP you can do.

The way I deal with it is I use my Rapid fire stratagem on intercessors and kill the pox walkers before they get a chance to use it. My OP stratagem is better than yours.

Think this is bad? The recent update to AoS zombies made them do a MW on a 6 to hit all. The. Time.

You know, mortal wounds that are caused by the likes of magical lightning, weapons burning with the heat of the sun, spirits reaching through corporeal matter to stop your heart. And zombies! Dragging people down!

It makes me think there is some strange concept about zombie effectiveness that has gone around GW.

1CP should translate to 1-2 mortal wounds on average. More than that and it might be busted, even if it is a niche Stratagem that only comes up 1/100 games, that one game where you deal 9 mortal wounds for 3CP because your opponent arrived as reinforcements within 12" of your flamer unit and on a lower vertical level on the table will give the opponent a bad experience. Downsides such as taking damage or losing mobility goes a way towards helping to pay for a greater effect. 20 pts is roughly equal in value to 1CP.

Poxwalkers are not core, the Stratagem is meant to deal as many mortal wounds to the Poxwalkers as the target. But that is still only 15 pts and 1CP for 3 mortals or 30 pts and 1CP for 6 mortals. Spore Mines pay 10 points for 1 mortal wound. A 15 point Scarab Swarm can suicide for 1CP to deal roughly 2 mortal wounds.

Other overpowered Stratagems existing does not make this Stratagem less overpowered, double shoot and double fight Stratagems are OP, especially when combined with other Stratagems and effects like re-roll hits of 1, +1 to hit and +1 to wound, extra hits on 5s and ignore hit penalties. If everyone had access to the same Stratagems I could see it being fair, if you could expect every list with a glass cannon to have shoot/fight twice and no other Stratagems to combine it with, then it would probably be fine. But access to Cacophony makes or breaks a lot of CSM units. Although I do like Stratagems as a Mark reward as opposed to stats, it's just too aggressively costed and shouldn't work with VotLW.

 DarkHound wrote:
If the effect had a cap of 3, it'd be easy to reach that cap, but it wouldn't change the effect in practice and it would hurt fluffy zombie horde armies that already aren't very good.

In what way would it not change the effect in practice? If practice is 36 attacks, then that is half the amount of mortal wounds inflicted to the target, that's a massive change. The re-roll Stratagem would still somewhat neat because you get to avoid suffering most of the mortal wounds yourself if you just re-roll 1s.

Your claim that they're just fluffy zombies is out of touch with competitive Death Guard lists, they are everywhere. So "fluffy zombie horde armies" don't need a sudden 1CP 6 mortal wound damage swing and they'd be totally fine if it was just 3 mortal wounds going out and coming in from the Stratagem. Yes, it'd be niche, that's what Stratagems are supposed to be. Allow units to perform extraordinary feats in rare circumstances. If it's something you do all the time then your Stratagem selection is broken. Nobody ever uses the Chaos Boon table because it is weak for its cost and because there are some nobrainer Stratagems to use CP on instead. I would like to see a Chaos Boon once in a while, if GW are going to write dozens of Stratagems for everyone it should at least amount to some flavour and not just pumping out absurd amounts of damage via combos are undercosted mortal wound explosions.

 DarkHound wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:in a game of WHO IS THE MOST USELESS UNIT, GROTS OR POXWALKERS?!

Totally besides the point. Grots are overpriced, sure. We knew that when the 9th edition points rolled around. They should cost 3 points. However, they have certain advantages, such as Grot Shields. You can fix their morale with either your Warboss or a Runtherd. And they do hit on 3s for shooting. There are ways to make Grots useful.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
Sure, but it's a reward for Typhus zombie horde armies. That's an army style that's famous in the lore, and the designers want that style to be represented on the tabletop. The Poxwalkers don't pay extra points because that would make them worse for other factions. The stratagem is just good enough to make that play style interesting, but it's clearly worse than other factions. That is good for the game; people who like the lore can play out armies in that style. I wish every lore faction had similar representation.

I think it is cool they have the stratagem.

Scarabs have a 1 cp stratagem that kills a 15 point scarab and does 3 mortal wounds max. Also a cool stratagem. Clearly less effective than the pox walker stratagem though - and technically costs more. That is my issue.

That just comes down to the fact that the designers want a zombie horde army to exist, but they don't want a scarab horde army to exist. Still, that's really splitting hairs.

they have a ballistic skill of 4 not 3.

A runtherd almost cost as much as an entire unit of grots, literally no one uses them, they suck.

Do you even know what Orks play?

I just don't see it as OP. Competitive lists aren't taking multiple 20 man units of poxies. Even if you do, you're still very unlikely to get a full 20 man unit in to combat and in such a way that they can all fight.

A 100pt unit sacrificing 30pts of models and 1CP to do maybe 6MWs and largely nothing else without further CP expenditure doesn't seem that insane to me.

I'm struggling to find a comparison but a 95pt malignant plaguecaster can chuck out a smite, and plague wind/curse of the leper every turn and comfortably dish out 6 MWs at 12" range.

He's also character protected so arguably more durable, it doesn't cost a CP every turn or kill your own models and his damage output doesn't deteriorate throughout the game...

Abaddon303 wrote:
I just don't see it as OP. Competitive lists aren't taking multiple 20 man units of poxies. Even if you do, you're still very unlikely to get a full 20 man unit in to combat and in such a way that they can all fight.

A 100pt unit sacrificing 30pts of models and 1CP to do maybe 6MWs and largely nothing else without further CP expenditure doesn't seem that insane to me.

I'm struggling to find a comparison but a 95pt malignant plaguecaster can chuck out a smite, and plague wind/curse of the leper every turn and comfortably dish out 6 MWs at 12" range.

He's also character protected so arguably more durable, it doesn't cost a CP every turn or kill your own models and his damage output doesn't deteriorate throughout the game...

but its not a stratagem, thats what he does. Hes a psyker and i can deny his casting.

We cant compare non stratagems to stratagems. Mutant Strain has the possibility to deal way too much damage. Even 10 poxwalkers is 20 hits. How many 6s do you think you're gonna average on 20 hits? More than what that 1 CP is worth. 1CP often translates to 3 mortal wounds, and with 20 hits? Id says thats within the realms of possibility. hell even 4 or 5 wouldnt be too too much to ask for.

Because of this you cant even grab an invul save character and throw him in to poxwalkers because they will potentially melt him. They should only deal MW in the wounding phase. I dont understand why people defend this ability even if they dont use it often.

"others have OP stuff too" yes, but that doesnt mean yours is any less OP or unbalanced. It doesnt have to come up often, as the guy above me said, it just needs to happen once that they deal 12 mortal wounds for 1 CP and we'll have a problem. Even if you killed 1 poxwalker for each MW you made, it would still be worth it considering their price of 5 points with ressurrection capabilities.

Abaddon303 wrote:
I just don't see it as OP. Competitive lists aren't taking multiple 20 man units of poxies. Even if you do, you're still very unlikely to get a full 20 man unit in to combat and in such a way that they can all fight.

A 100pt unit sacrificing 30pts of models and 1CP to do maybe 6MWs and largely nothing else without further CP expenditure doesn't seem that insane to me.

I'm struggling to find a comparison but a 95pt malignant plaguecaster can chuck out a smite, and plague wind/curse of the leper every turn and comfortably dish out 6 MWs at 12" range.

He's also character protected so arguably more durable, it doesn't cost a CP every turn or kill your own models and his damage output doesn't deteriorate throughout the game...

Smite can be denied and it can roll a 1 even on a super smite. When you are rolling 40 dice - you expect more close to the average. It's also very possible to vastly exceed the average. For example - the first time this was played against me. A unit of 13 pox walkers did 9 mortal wounds to my unit of warriors...I couldn't believe it. It really isn't that crazy to roll 9 6's on on 26 dice though. Results like that should be expected to happen pretty often.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
I just don't see it as OP. Competitive lists aren't taking multiple 20 man units of poxies. Even if you do, you're still very unlikely to get a full 20 man unit in to combat and in such a way that they can all fight.

A 100pt unit sacrificing 30pts of models and 1CP to do maybe 6MWs and largely nothing else without further CP expenditure doesn't seem that insane to me.

I'm struggling to find a comparison but a 95pt malignant plaguecaster can chuck out a smite, and plague wind/curse of the leper every turn and comfortably dish out 6 MWs at 12" range.

He's also character protected so arguably more durable, it doesn't cost a CP every turn or kill your own models and his damage output doesn't deteriorate throughout the game...

Smite can be denied and it can roll a 1 even on a super smite. When you are rolling 40 dice - you expect more close to the average. It's also very possible to vastly exceed the average. For example - the first time this was played against me. A unit of 13 pox walkers did 9 mortal wounds to my unit of warriors...I couldn't believe it. It really isn't that crazy to roll 9 6's on on 26 dice though. Results like that should be expected to happen pretty often.

If by "pretty often" you mean "One out of every fifty times" then sure.

Lol, i literally just started reading a Goonhammer article and there's a list in there that took 5x 20 poxwalkers so what do I know?

From 20 attacks you'll average 3 or 4 i guess. You'll also do 3 or 4 MWs to yourself. And it's that sort of output you are looking at in general from Mutant Strain. Yeh it's decent. It's not insane.

Diseased Effluents in the DG codex costs 1CP. You pick a DG character in engagement range, he takes a MW and on a 2+ he does 2D3 mortal wounds to the other unit. That's in the command phase too. He still gets to fight later...


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There are probably plenty of anecdotes where somebody's thrown 26 dice and rolled 9 1s too...


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I consolidated into a unit of 8 Scions on Tuesday night and they killed 4 berzerkers...

There are probably plenty of anecdotes where somebody's thrown 26 dice and rolled 9 1s too...

I can do you better. I've rolled 9 dice and 6 1s!

Beardedragon wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Totally besides the point. Grots are overpriced, sure. We knew that when the 9th edition points rolled around. They should cost 3 points. However, they have certain advantages, such as Grot Shields. You can fix their morale with either your Warboss or a Runtherd. And they do hit on 3s for shooting. There are ways to make Grots useful.

they have a ballistic skill of 4 not 3.

A runtherd almost cost as much as an entire unit of grots, literally no one uses them, they suck.

Do you even know what Orks play?

They get +1 to hit when there are 20+ models in the unit. Yes, grots are overpriced. That's what I said. And it's totally tangential to the supposed issue of Poxwalkers. Grots serve an entirely different role, and can function as ablative wounds for units like Lootas and Tankbustas. They are not directly comparable to Poxwalkers just because they cost the same.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
I just don't see it as OP. Competitive lists aren't taking multiple 20 man units of poxies. Even if you do, you're still very unlikely to get a full 20 man unit in to combat and in such a way that they can all fight.

A 100pt unit sacrificing 30pts of models and 1CP to do maybe 6MWs and largely nothing else without further CP expenditure doesn't seem that insane to me.

I'm struggling to find a comparison but a 95pt malignant plaguecaster can chuck out a smite, and plague wind/curse of the leper every turn and comfortably dish out 6 MWs at 12" range.

He's also character protected so arguably more durable, it doesn't cost a CP every turn or kill your own models and his damage output doesn't deteriorate throughout the game...

Smite can be denied and it can roll a 1 even on a super smite. When you are rolling 40 dice - you expect more close to the average. It's also very possible to vastly exceed the average. For example - the first time this was played against me. A unit of 13 pox walkers did 9 mortal wounds to my unit of warriors...I couldn't believe it. It really isn't that crazy to roll 9 6's on on 26 dice though. Results like that should be expected to happen pretty often.

If by "pretty often" you mean "One out of every fifty times" then sure.

You ever count the number of times you roll dice in a game? Typically a 2k army will have 10-15 units - in a 5 turn game. with each unit typical rolling for some kind of action at lest once a turn. So you'll have a crazy result on at least 1 of those rolls - probably more though. Having rolled so many dice in my life now I have realized anything that can happen will happen and that should be expected.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
I just don't see it as OP. Competitive lists aren't taking multiple 20 man units of poxies. Even if you do, you're still very unlikely to get a full 20 man unit in to combat and in such a way that they can all fight.

A 100pt unit sacrificing 30pts of models and 1CP to do maybe 6MWs and largely nothing else without further CP expenditure doesn't seem that insane to me.

I'm struggling to find a comparison but a 95pt malignant plaguecaster can chuck out a smite, and plague wind/curse of the leper every turn and comfortably dish out 6 MWs at 12" range.

He's also character protected so arguably more durable, it doesn't cost a CP every turn or kill your own models and his damage output doesn't deteriorate throughout the game...

Smite can be denied and it can roll a 1 even on a super smite. When you are rolling 40 dice - you expect more close to the average. It's also very possible to vastly exceed the average. For example - the first time this was played against me. A unit of 13 pox walkers did 9 mortal wounds to my unit of warriors...I couldn't believe it. It really isn't that crazy to roll 9 6's on on 26 dice though. Results like that should be expected to happen pretty often.

If by "pretty often" you mean "One out of every fifty times" then sure.

You ever count the number of times you roll dice in a game? Typically a 2k army will have 10-15 units - in a 5 turn game. with each unit typical rolling for some kind of action at lest once a turn. So you'll have a crazy result on at least 1 of those rolls - probably more though. Having rolled so many dice in my life now I have realized anything that can happen will happen and that should be expected.

Right... But the Strat is used in the Fight Phase. Once per turn. SOME dice will be screwy, but it could just as easily be "Well darn, I lost 9 Poxwalkers and did 1 MW to you" rather than "Sweet, I did 9 MW and only lost one Poxwalker".

But, if you use it every single turn (both your turn and your opponent's turn) with that squad of 13, from turn one, you'd expect to see nine MW dealt about once every five games.

I mean, if we're going off anecdote, I had a squad of Plague Drones with one guy left (four wounds) take 10 damage from some Lootas. He survived with two wounds left-so clearly, Disgustingly Resilient is bonkers OP!
Same game, I had a Daemon Prince of Nurgle take nine wounds from a Deff Dread-and die. Clearly, DR is basically pointless.

I.... What? Is this really an issue for people? It feels like this is the Austin Powers Steamroller scene. My regular sparring opponent is a DG playe. I've been struck hard by Mutant strain once, and it was when I was unaware of the strat.

Like really? I generally try to not to got the argument about player skill, but feth. It's a unit that moves 4", cannot advance and charge and is squishy to small arms fire (either having only a 6+++ or a 6+/6+++ in cover)
Light Anti-infantry shooting is a counter, active charging is a counter, proper positioning is a counter, meatshielding is a counter. There are several things that any player can do to mitigate poxxies with any practically constructed army. Compare that to say Wrath of Mars, which is far more difficult to mitigate, but maxed at 6 wounds - which is equivalent to the average of a perfect mutant strain strike (Full 20 models all in engagement range).

I mean, it's probably a healthy rules change to do to put a 6MW limit on it, but that's nothing to do with the current viability itself - but more the fact that all MW causing strats should have a hard limit to prevent future rule changes from causing an issue.

As someone who plays a ton of poxmongers using this stratagem and the plague company that allows me to reroll hits I can say for sure that this is not overpowered.

Poxmongers are easy to kill and if you are having problems with them and this stratagem you are most likely not playing your best game to begin with. I have played against a varied roster of armies and most are able to counteract any poxwalkers. I basically consider it a bonus if I get to do some damage using this and there have been entire game where I haven't been able to use this combo(mortal wound and reroll) because the opponent just knew how to play around this.

So it does feel like you played a game where your opponent got you in a "gotcha!" moment. I know it sucks, but now that you know of the capabilities of the poxwalkers you can play around it.

 Eldarsif wrote:
As someone who plays a ton of poxmongers using this stratagem and the plague company that allows me to reroll hits I can say for sure that this is not overpowered.

Poxmongers are easy to kill and if you are having problems with them and this stratagem you are most likely not playing your best game to begin with. I have played against a varied roster of armies and most are able to counteract any poxwalkers. I basically consider it a bonus if I get to do some damage using this and there have been entire game where I haven't been able to use this combo(mortal wound and reroll) because the opponent just knew how to play around this.

So it does feel like you played a game where your opponent got you in a "gotcha!" moment. I know it sucks, but now that you know of the capabilities of the poxwalkers you can play around it.

what? by that standard you might as well give them a 1cp nuke attack that annihilates anything they touch in close combat, because they are "difficult to get in to combat". you know, except for the fact that they tend to sit on objectives. they dont NEED to move away from them. they dont NEED speed.

Them being able to deal mortal wounds isnt the problem, them dealing mortal wounds in the hitting phase is. No other unit does that for 1CP. you could deal anything from 3 mortal wounds to 25 mortal wounds in a crazy day with 40 rolls. who knows. The damage potential is just too high. Thats why it should be shaved off and be more normalized by being 6s in the wounding phase. at least that wouldnt produce crazy amounts of hits.


A stratagem doesnt have to be a massive problem, to be too god for what its meant to do. Its too good for 1 CP. it doesnt have to be game breaking just because you can play around it, but its still too good for what it does. no unit of 5 point models should deal 8 mortal wounds for 1 CP. Couple this with the gardenhose man and camp on a victory point and close combat armies with little shooting is going to have at least some issues.


Are you telling me its important that Poxwalkers, whos job is to screen out and hold objectives by not suffering morale and can ressurrect and all, needs to be ABLE to deal many mortal wounds? Is their damage so low that this was important? Was the ability to deal mortal wounds on 6s in the hitting phase when you can potentially throw 40 die, a sorely needed thing for a 5 ppm unit? no it wasnt. They were never designed to be hardcore hitters, even as a last ditch effort, but this makes them exactly that.

At least by doing 6s in the wounding phase you put a somewhat cap on the maximum mortal wounds they can deal.

The stratagem is so powerful it can be countered by adequately screening a unit.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
The stratagem is so powerful it can be countered by adequately screening a unit.

the stratagem is powerful compared to what one CP is meant to be the equivilent of. And based around THAT, and what you're meant to get from one CP, the damage potential is too high.

Are you an idiot if you charge in to poxwalkers with a gardenhose man making the poxies hit first? of course you are as you are not meant to do that but thats beside the point. The damage potential is too high for this one stratagem. It should be done in the wounding phase.

So much drama...

Giving Poxwalkers a small chance to hit hard is alright and with all the other stratagems you sometimes don't even have the CP for this particular stratagem - especially late game as it takes them time to get anywhere and you've already spent CP on other more important things. Also alright to do it on a hit roll. I don't know every stat for 40k units, but there are a few units in AoS that do the same without using a CP and without the outrage. At some point you just have to admit that you got played, it pissed you off, and now you are trying to get everybody to validate your tantrum.

If you can't deal with poxwalkers easily then you are either playing a very low tier army or badly - maybe both.

what? by that standard you might as well give them a 1cp nuke attack that annihilates anything they touch in close combat, because they are "difficult to get in to combat". you know, except for the fact that they tend to sit on objectives. they dont NEED to move away from them. they dont NEED speed.

Calm down and stop the hyperbole.

Just shoot them before charging them? Even Boyz will probably kill 5 poxwalkers with their sluggas. That's cut their MW output by a quarter.

As soon as they drop to around 10 models it becomes far less efficient to drop a CP on the strat, especially if you are trying to keep your obsec guys on the objective. I have had a lot of situations where I would rather my poxwalkers didn't do much damage because I cared more about keeping them alive.

You can only use the resurrection strat once per squad, and them turning other models to poxwalkers isn't so easy in a game dominated by elite units. Along with them dying to a stiff breeze, attrition is real with them. This is massively exacerbated if you've picked Spread the Sickness so you're losing D3 each turn and needing to keep at least a unit alive until turn 4 in order to score well on that secondary.

It really is as simple as not charging headlong into a full unit of 20, whittle them down first or at least weigh up whether taking that objective is worth the 5/6 MWs you're gonna take in the process. It's a question your opponent is asking you, in the same way you are asking them if it's worth the 1CP and the dead poxwalkers when he only has 10 poxwalkers left stood on that objective.

There are a lot of things in 40k that are incredibly powerful but can be played around, that's what keeps the spike damage balanced. Look at the hand wringing when people first saw the Nightbringer's datasheet. People understand what he does now and play around him. Same with Mortarion to some extent.

It's funny that this stratagem is the one you want to focus on, and not Deathshroud Terminators with a Biologis Putrifier doing the same thing without costing any CP while being a much more difficult to kill unit, not being locked behind a weak plague company and having more frightening melee in general outside of the MW's.

If literally everyone, even non-DG players, is disagreeing with you maybe you need to actually reconsider your opinion and way of looking at and playing the game.

 Eldarsif wrote:
So much drama...

Giving Poxwalkers a small chance to hit hard is alright and with all the other stratagems you sometimes don't even have the CP for this particular stratagem - especially late game as it takes them time to get anywhere and you've already spent CP on other more important things. Also alright to do it on a hit roll. I don't know every stat for 40k units, but there are a few units in AoS that do the same without using a CP and without the outrage. At some point you just have to admit that you got played, it pissed you off, and now you are trying to get everybody to validate your tantrum.

If you can't deal with poxwalkers easily then you are either playing a very low tier army or badly - maybe both.

what? by that standard you might as well give them a 1cp nuke attack that annihilates anything they touch in close combat, because they are "difficult to get in to combat". you know, except for the fact that they tend to sit on objectives. they dont NEED to move away from them. they dont NEED speed.

Calm down and stop the hyperbole.

Hit harder? thats the understatement of the year. Hitting hard would giving them, on a roll of 6, a strength value of +2, -2 AP or something like that. They dont "hit harder" by doing 8 mortal wounds which by passes invul saves and gets distributed evenly among the entire unit. If the idea is they are meant to fight back properly, then mortal wounds werent the way, at least not in the hitting phase. The stratagem would be in line with other mortal wounds abilities if it was done in the wounding phase, but the way it is now, its NOT in line with other stratagems. the negative sides of dying on a 1 is more or elss already negated by other stratagems and their own abilities. theres close to zero risk involved in doing this.

The unit doesnt matter, stratagems still need to be somewhat balanced. This stratagem is not balanced. You give too little for how much you can gain. Just because Grots are terrible you would also not give them a 10 mortal wounds grenade for 1 CP but the unit dies afterwards would you? of course you wouldnt. 1CP shouldnt yield 5+ mortal wounds and if it should it shouldnt have a high chance of doing so.

Stating that poxwalkers with this stratagem are able to hit harder is a major understatement as they can blow through ANYTHING with that stratagem.


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Abaddon303 wrote:
Just shoot them before charging them? Even Boyz will probably kill 5 poxwalkers with their sluggas. That's cut their MW output by a quarter.

As soon as they drop to around 10 models it becomes far less efficient to drop a CP on the strat, especially if you are trying to keep your obsec guys on the objective. I have had a lot of situations where I would rather my poxwalkers didn't do much damage because I cared more about keeping them alive.

You can only use the resurrection strat once per squad, and them turning other models to poxwalkers isn't so easy in a game dominated by elite units. Along with them dying to a stiff breeze, attrition is real with them. This is massively exacerbated if you've picked Spread the Sickness so you're losing D3 each turn and needing to keep at least a unit alive until turn 4 in order to score well on that secondary.

It really is as simple as not charging headlong into a full unit of 20, whittle them down first or at least weigh up whether taking that objective is worth the 5/6 MWs you're gonna take in the process. It's a question your opponent is asking you, in the same way you are asking them if it's worth the 1CP and the dead poxwalkers when he only has 10 poxwalkers left stood on that objective.

There are a lot of things in 40k that are incredibly powerful but can be played around, that's what keeps the spike damage balanced. Look at the hand wringing when people first saw the Nightbringer's datasheet. People understand what he does now and play around him. Same with Mortarion to some extent.

if you run a goff mob you will mainly be advancing your boys. Boyz cant advance and shoot pistols. most ghaz goff lists run mek gunz with smasha profiles. I dont intend to shoot smasha gunz in to poxwalkers. Sure i will attempt to shoot them with my boys if i can reach with my pistols because they are a threat otherwise. Thats not my way of saying it cant be dealt with because as i said, i dont really give a flying feth about the strategies that can be used against it, because the last time i used a goff ghaz army against poxwalkers they didnt end up becoming problem. Its purely about how one stratagem can turn a bottom feeder unit in to a unit that even a custodian player couldnt protect itself against in CC. such power shouldnt be on such a low tier unit.

By the way, 10 poxwalkers can still yield 20 hits. Thats still a decent amount of mortal wounds for 1CP.


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 Bosskelot wrote:
It's funny that this stratagem is the one you want to focus on, and not Deathshroud Terminators with a Biologis Putrifier doing the same thing without costing any CP while being a much more difficult to kill unit, not being locked behind a weak plague company and having more frightening melee in general outside of the MW's.

If literally everyone, even non-DG players, is disagreeing with you maybe you need to actually reconsider your opinion and way of looking at and playing the game.

no. Im allowed to form my own opinion regardless of whether people agree or not. most DG players i meet openly says that while it doesnt come in to play often, the times it do, it IS a powerful stratagem for what you PAY for, versus what you get.

The stratagem is very powerful, but it is also highly situational. Its not a stratagem you can just use in every instance but you know what? thats what stratagems are meant to be. extra things for your army, not abilities that you auto pick. at least most should be that way.
I never said this stratagem wins games nor did i say i was losing games because of it. Im pointing out that while its situational, you gain too much out of this stratagem compared to what you lose. Your damage value sky rockets when using this ability compared to what you should be able to do. Its like Grots suddenly hitting with strength 10, it wouldnt make any sense.

Also i dont complain about that combo because its a strong unit that its being used on, in your example at least. I complain about the stratagem because no stratagem should be used on a tiny poxwalker unit, cost 1 CP and allow them to perform miracles for 1 turn by turning T8 vehicles to dust. Percentage wise, the power increase of poxwalkers is increased like 500%.

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's funny that this stratagem is the one you want to focus on, and not Deathshroud Terminators with a Biologis Putrifier doing the same thing without costing any CP while being a much more difficult to kill unit, not being locked behind a weak plague company and having more frightening melee in general outside of the MW's.

If literally everyone, even non-DG players, is disagreeing with you maybe you need to actually reconsider your opinion and way of looking at and playing the game.

Exactly this, Death Guard have so many ways to chuck out obscene amounts of MWs that this is a weird hill to die on.
As i said early diseased effluents does 2D3 MWs, the plagueskull relic can potentially do 21MWs! (more likely around 5), a plaguecaster with the wretched relic can do 2xD3 MWs on top of his two powers.
Typhus as a harbingers warlord just chucks out mortals for days


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I mean, don't advance your Boyz, shoot with their pistols and kill a bunch of poxwalkers then?

If it was changed to 6s to wound then nobody would use it. It would mean even if everything came together and you got to swing with all 20 poxwalkers you would do about 3 MWs. As soon as you lost a few poxwalkers it would just be so rarely worth the CP...

Anyway I'm done, you're clearly to pissed off to change your mind. Write to GW if you really think it should be changed...

Abaddon303 wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's funny that this stratagem is the one you want to focus on, and not Deathshroud Terminators with a Biologis Putrifier doing the same thing without costing any CP while being a much more difficult to kill unit, not being locked behind a weak plague company and having more frightening melee in general outside of the MW's.

If literally everyone, even non-DG players, is disagreeing with you maybe you need to actually reconsider your opinion and way of looking at and playing the game.

Exactly this, Death Guard have so many ways to chuck out obscene amounts of MWs that this is a weird hill to die on.
As i said early diseased effluents does 2D3 MWs, the plagueskull relic can potentially do 21MWs! (more likely around 5), a plaguecaster with the wretched relic can do 2xD3 MWs on top of his two powers.
Typhus as a harbingers warlord just chucks out mortals for days

So im not allowed to focus on one point? i have to focus on them all? Or rather, i cant focus on a specific issue i think makes sense for me to talk about, because something else is a bigger issue to you? it was never about game breaking stratagems, because this is NOT a game breaking stratagem. But you still gain too much power from this stratagem, compared to what you pay, thats why im making the thread.

Its like when someone makes a news article about racism against white people, then people get angry that they didnt also include black people because they are off worse than white people (its an example, i dont know). Some of those abilities are good but they can be denied by psykers, hell they can even blow themselves up in the process. theres risk to doing that. Theres no risk in running in with 20 poxwalkers and using this 1CP stratagem as you will probably gain way more than you lose. Your other stratagems can negate the died poxwalkers and their own abilities and they are super cheap anyway.

You guys think its fine for a unit that can do 40 hits to make mortal wounds on a 6 for 1 silly CP. I cant get it around my head why you think its balanced but i guess everyone has their reason. even if you can work around it because its an easy unit to kill thats just crazy to suggest being a balanced stratagem. This isnt balanced. because something ELSE is also not balanced, doesnt make this more balanced. dont complain about paying 1 CP to deal 3-5 mortal wounds?, most other factions cant EVEN do that. Hell if i pay anything to deal mortal wounds it sure as F isnt more than 3 i can do. Id kill to have my grots do mortal wounds on hits. Hell the rivet kannons on Kustom boosta blastas can deal mortal wounds on wound rolls but i only hit on 5s to begin with. it will never amount to much.


Orks have flying headbutt, which im assuming will be removed by the next codex. Fly in and suicide your plane and deal 3 flat mortal wounds to anything near 6 inches (if you use a burna bomma). thats 1 CP, and its OP as hell, ive chugged out 25 mortal wounds for 1 CP and my 155 point burna bomma. Those crazy mortal wounds stratagems needs to get toned down.

GW sure does love mortals in the last couple codexes. DE has the dumb flyby strat, DG does mortals with literally almost everything, ad mech has like four or five different MW strats, not even counting auto-explode on your vehicles, as well as mortals on 6s on a bunch of stuff too...it goes on and on.

This thread. . . lol. People get worked up about the craziest things that are not a big deal in the slightest.

Space marine lieutenants are the most broken unit in the game! What were they thinking giving a reroll 1s to wound for ZERO CP! OMG that's the equivalent of dozens of Command Reroll stratagems over the course of the game! So broken!

I literally laughed out loud at people taking this OP seriously

Yes. im not a fan of that much mortal wounds, at least not on weak units. Weak units, low tier fodder, isnt meant to go haywire and deal that much MW. Im okay with end units dealing MW though. You pay a lot for them.

of course everything with reason and balance.

People dont agree with me here, which is weird. people mainly tell me themselves they think the stratagem is not balanced properly for how much damage it deals, even before i say anything. I would assume people on the forum would agree, apparently not.

Which is fair i guess.

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW sure does love mortals in the last couple codexes. DE has the dumb flyby strat, DG does mortals with literally almost everything, ad mech has like four or five different MW strats, not even counting auto-explode on your vehicles, as well as mortals on 6s on a bunch of stuff too...it goes on and on.

Love it or hate it - it is necessary when you have permanent transhuman, cheap models that can catch a 2+ save, and phase limited damage.

 vict0988 wrote:
1CP should translate to 1-2 mortal wounds on average. More than that and it might be busted

With Behemoth as Tyranids I can do an average of 5MW for the cost of 1CP when I charge with a unit of 30 Hormagaunts.

Most Tyranid players don't bother. And the existing 'D3 MW for 1CP' stratagems are (rightly) dismissed as worthless.

Mortal Wounds are just not that valuable.

Rihgu wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It should just have a max of 3 mortal wounds...like almost every other stratagem of it's kind.

Or like the tyranids one - it should be based on the number of models charging. Not on hit rolls.

It makes no sense to be why some stratagems that deal mortal wounds should cost more or less CP and some have a max limit and some dont...it is just silly and indefensible to have to obvious imbalances.

No, because 1) this kills your own models and 2) it can be avoided by limiting the number of models that can reach. With good positioning maybe 8 to 10 pox will reach which averages about 3 MW and kills 3 pox. Avoiding Mephrit Gauss isn't nearly so simple.

Do you get how generous this game is on getting units into CC range? Every model in your unit gets a free 3 inch move after their charge roll and only has to be within an inch of a model within 1 inch of an enemy model. If you are charging - every single model in a 20 man unit should be attacking prodived you didn't roll just the minimum charge distance. In any case it doesn't matter as even with 30 out of 40 attacks you will average more than 3 mortal wounds. True rolls of 1 will deal a mortal to the pox walker but typically a mortal wound is going to remove a model as well (which gives you a pox walker back) and poxy have fnp against the mortal wound automatically (this rule can basically be ignored as a balancing factor as it is an advantage for the pox walkers!).

Please re-read the rules for the relevant models and stratagems.
Because the mortal wounds are not allocated until the Poxwalker's Fight has resolved, they cannot get pox walkers back from the mortal wounds caused.

Hold up, why not? The mortal wounds are resolved after their normal attacks, not after the "Fight has resolved". Enemy models are still being destroyed by their attacks, so they still trigger the Curse.

Am I misunderstanding your point?