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Apparently really really really high - B5 is trending at #1 on Twitter in the US, and #2 in the UK, all while the most watched TV event in world history is happening in the UK.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Today, he asked fans to show their support for the Babylon 5 reboot on social media by tweeting about it in an attempt to sway Warner Bros. Television's final decision. "The fate of the #Babylon5 pilot may be decided end of this month," Straczynski tweeted today. "Though much of @TheCW was bought by @NXSTMediaGroup the decision also rests heavily with @WarnerbrosTV. If fans want to show their support for B5 & let them know you want this to happen, now is the time #B5onCWin23."
Eh. Appealing to the twitter mob to save your show isn't a good look.
Might as well say he doesn't have any faith in it, and hopes that a flashmob who have never seen it can over ride the judgement of the studio execs that actually watch the pilot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/21 03:22:03
Comment from the sidelines, but with all the hubbub about Warner of late, isn't it more likely he has little faith in the company rather than his show?
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Geifer wrote: Comment from the sidelines, but with all the hubbub about Warner of late, isn't it more likely he has little faith in the company rather than his show?
This. If he didn't have faith in his show he wouldn't be trying his best to get it on the air (after all, he's not an amateur hack trying to get his first show on television but an established name in the industry).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/21 14:27:28
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
And he also has some words for the "creatively bankrupt" crowd.
If I thought for a moment JMS would be allowed to do what he wants, I'd be thrilled.
But in this era? In Hollywood? A MAN be allowed to do what he wants with his show? No, he's going to be pressured into things he would never have done back in the mid-'90s. I have no real hope for this to be good.
Which works in my favor. If I'm right, well, I told you so.
If I'm wrong, sure, I was wrong, and we actually managed to get a good show out of it.
But the current track record on remakes and reboots does not bode well.
If I thought for a moment JMS would be allowed to do what he wants, I'd be thrilled.
But in this era? In Hollywood? A MAN be allowed to do what he wants with his show? No, he's going to be pressured into things he would never have done back in the mid-'90s. I have no real hope for this to be good.
Which works in my favor. If I'm right, well, I told you so.
If I'm wrong, sure, I was wrong, and we actually managed to get a good show out of it.
But the current track record on remakes and reboots does not bode well.
I don't think he'd be pressured into doing anything he wouldn't want to. I'd be more worried that the current Hollywood derangement bubble has instead affected him equally as well and he'd ruin his own show/legacy and end up with him disappointing then attacking his own fanbase just like seemingly with every other reboot/reimagining of classic fan favorites. I'd rather not have this too ruined retroactively for me and instead prefer it to just delay another 5-10 years when hopefully the fad will have passed.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
AduroT wrote: Can you even imagine B5 with prominent female characters? Would totally ruin it.
I hope that's not directed at me because that would be stupid. I ask becauce if that was the issue than I wouldn't be a fan of the series for almost 30 years. The show was always diverse in its casting just in case you've never watched it (which is apparently the case from your comment). You should watch it though and I think you'll really enjoy binging it for the first time!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/22 14:32:58
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
Yes, Babylon 5 has the very definition of a 'prominent female character' (several in fact, especially Ivanova )
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I, too, was wondering if Vulcan had ever watched the show. It was progressive for its time and would considered absolutely woke by today’s YouTube comments section. Heaven help any “real fans” who look into the original plan for Delenn’s character transformation. (I do wonder if JMS will push for that in the reboot, and if people will decry it as not being true to the original vision.)
Yeah, Delenn in the pilot is markedly different and more alien (and masculine). FWIW and obviously subject to change but JMS has said that he doesn't plan on rebooting/retelling the show but rather doing something related but new. I doubt he'll try to repeat that for Delenn or in general though I would have preferred to see that in the original as well. Bring on the alien aliens in scifi. One of the biggest failings (among MANY) in nutrek is that, while the technical ability and budget exist nowadays to do so, we haven't seen true aliens as regular cast. The most alien alien in SNW was killed off in the worse possible way. We're literally back to 1960's weird haircut and plastic ear tips as the pinnacle of alien representation on the regular cast. Hell, B5 was significantly better in the mid 90s in that regard with Jakar (sp?), Delenn, and Kosh.
I disagree though that it would be considered woke nowadays for either side whether for or against. I agree that it was progressive for its time but back then being progressive meant that you represented society in proportion to society and didn't do so specifically at the expense of one demographic group in particular. If representation matters (and I do think it does) then it matters for all and not just for some. YMMV.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/22 17:17:14
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
Pilot Delenn was different because they were supposed to be male, and transition to female at the end of S1. They couldn't get the voice modulation to work between the pilot and the start of regular production, so scrapped the idea.
As for "not being considered woke", a trans regular cast member, at least two gay one (cause if we're doing this we're gonna give Ivanova her due) and the underlying meta-arc of "Fascism is bad yo"? Yeah that's gonna piss a very particular crowd off.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/22 20:06:14
I, too, was wondering if Vulcan had ever watched the show. It was progressive for its time and would considered absolutely woke by today’s YouTube comments section. Heaven help any “real fans” who look into the original plan for Delenn’s character transformation. (I do wonder if JMS will push for that in the reboot, and if people will decry it as not being true to the original vision.)
Well. I can see I've already been judged for wanting GOOD WRITING and not 'dur hurr, look at the dumb males who need strong women to save them from themselves'....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/23 10:36:17
Vulcan wrote: But in this era? In Hollywood? A MAN be allowed to do what he wants with his show? No, he's going to be pressured into things he would never have done back in the mid-'90s. I have no real hope for this to be good.
Like what? JMS was ahead of his time with B5, the original already included LGBTQ+ characters and romances, diverse casting, powerful female leads, etc. Theres really nothing that modern Hollywood is "pressuring" people into doing today that JMS didn't already do of his own desire 25+ years ago.
I don't think he'd be pressured into doing anything he wouldn't want to. I'd be more worried that the current Hollywood derangement bubble has instead affected him equally as well and he'd ruin his own show/legacy and end up with him disappointing then attacking his own fanbase just like seemingly with every other reboot/reimagining of classic fan favorites. I'd rather not have this too ruined retroactively for me and instead prefer it to just delay another 5-10 years when hopefully the fad will have passed.
We already know how this is going to go. JMS will include all the same "deranged" progressive "woke" stuff that he did in the original, like a lesbian romance (for example), anti-fascist socio-political commentary, diverse representation, etc. and you and your buddies are going to REEEEEEEE about it while plugging your ears as sane, level-headed folk that don't see the devil or some grand conspiracy in the most irrelevant details point out to you that its true to the original.
Jakar (sp?)
You've been a fan for 30 years and you don't know how to spell G'kar?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/23 11:36:21
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
We already know how this is going to go. JMS will include all the same "deranged" progressive "woke" stuff that he did in the original, like a lesbian romance (for example), anti-fascist socio-political commentary, diverse representation, etc. and you and your buddies are going to REEEEEEEE about it while plugging your ears as sane, level-headed folk that don't see the devil or some grand conspiracy in the most irrelevant details point out to you that its true to the original.
If I had a problem with that then I would have 30 years ago and not liked it in the first place. As usual, you "and your buddies are going to REEEEEEE" at windmills and fight against arguments not being made by the sane, level-headed folk who notice that those laudible goals/aspects are not supposed to replace well rounded character development, quality writing, and talented acting. THAT is woke programming and those aspects are used by the ignorant as shields against valid criticism regarding the lack of the latter.
You've been a fan for 30 years and you don't know how to spell G'kar?
For someone so progressive, you sure are doing a great impression of an internet grammar/spelling nazi, lol. Yes, I spelled it incorrectly, Herr Omega. Or would you prefer Commissar?
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
We already know how this is going to go. JMS will include all the same "deranged" progressive "woke" stuff that he did in the original, like a lesbian romance (for example), anti-fascist socio-political commentary, diverse representation, etc. and you and your buddies are going to REEEEEEEE about it while plugging your ears as sane, level-headed folk that don't see the devil or some grand conspiracy in the most irrelevant details point out to you that its true to the original.
If I had a problem with that then I would have 30 years ago and not liked it in the first place. As usual, you "and your buddies are going to REEEEEEE" at windmills and fight against arguments not being made by the sane, level-headed folk who notice that those laudible goals/aspects are not supposed to replace well rounded character development, quality writing, and talented acting. THAT is woke programming and those aspects are used by the ignorant as shields against valid criticism regarding the lack of the latter.
*snort, chortle, raucous laughter*
I've seen this play out plenty of times. Plenty of shows and films which are more than enjoyable, well-written, and entertaining have well-rounded character development, quality writing, and talented acting, and still get slammed as just being "woke programming" for no other reason than the fact that they are progressive. In a word - you're projecting, you use "woke programming" as a cudgel to justify bashing progressive casting and writing decisions in order to diminish the quality of the mediums artistry and effort.
For someone so progressive, you sure are doing a great impression of an internet grammar/spelling nazi, lol. Yes, I spelled it incorrectly, Herr Omega. Or would you prefer Commissar?
You may address me as Omega the Hun.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
I've seen this play out plenty of times. Plenty of shows and films which are more than enjoyable, well-written, and entertaining have well-rounded character development, quality writing, and talented acting, and still get slammed as just being "woke programming" for no other reason than the fact that they are progressive. In a word - you're projecting, you use "woke programming" as a cudgel to justify bashing progressive casting and writing decisions in order to diminish the quality of the mediums artistry and effort.
Projecting... you're using that word but I don't think you know what it means though admittedly it may just be a complete lack of self awareness instead. As for the rest, diverse shows in the scifi/fantasy genres like the Expanse, the Mandalorian, and the more recent House of the Dragon didn't suffer from the same criticism after the premieres and were/are instead enjoyed because they didn't sacrifice storytelling and acting despite largely the same crowd lambasting recent star trek and star wars offerings (notably STD and Picard) and more recently Rings of Power. If you like bad shows, that's fine; I like some bad things too like the first AVP movie and Morbius. Just don't bother with the Carnac the Magnificent routine because Johnny Carson did it much better.
Either way, it's obvious I won't convince you so I'll leave you with some 40k thoughts for the day that seem appropriate. Blessed is the mind too small for doubt. Be strong in your ignorance for an open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded!
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
For the record I've been a fan of B5 since it first aired and I wouldn't be able to spell G'Kar at the drop of a hat either.
In a couple of days I'll have forgotten again.
Look. If JMS wants to make it I'm going to want to see what he produces. After all the studio driven reboots and remakes where the suits had to drag the original creators around by their noses with promises of big fat pay cheques you would think one where the creatives behind it are trying to drum up studio interest would be tentatively exciting.
I've seen this play out plenty of times. Plenty of shows and films which are more than enjoyable, well-written, and entertaining have well-rounded character development, quality writing, and talented acting, and still get slammed as just being "woke programming" for no other reason than the fact that they are progressive. In a word - you're projecting, you use "woke programming" as a cudgel to justify bashing progressive casting and writing decisions in order to diminish the quality of the mediums artistry and effort.
Projecting... you're using that word but I don't think you know what it means though admittedly it may just be a complete lack of self awareness instead. As for the rest, diverse shows in the scifi/fantasy genres like the Expanse, the Mandalorian, and the more recent House of the Dragon didn't suffer from the same criticism after the premieres and were/are instead enjoyed because they didn't sacrifice storytelling and acting despite largely the same crowd lambasting recent star trek and star wars offerings (notably STD and Picard) and more recently Rings of Power. If you like bad shows, that's fine; I like some bad things too like the first AVP movie and Morbius. Just don't bother with the Carnac the Magnificent routine because Johnny Carson did it much better.
Either way, it's obvious I won't convince you so I'll leave you with some 40k thoughts for the day that seem appropriate. Blessed is the mind too small for doubt. Be strong in your ignorance for an open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded!
I'm sorry. You need to be a special kind of stupid to accuse someone of a lack of self awareness while trying to pull the bs arguments that you're using out of your ass.
Also, check again - if you type "xyz woke garbage" where you replace xyz with the names of the shows you listed, you'll find *plenty* of criticism of how poorly written the shows are alongside how "woke" they are. Not only do you lack self-awareness, but you also seem to lack awareness of the world around you.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Captain Joystick wrote: For the record I've been a fan of B5 since it first aired and I wouldn't be able to spell G'Kar at the drop of a hat either.
In a couple of days I'll have forgotten again.
Look. If JMS wants to make it I'm going to want to see what he produces. After all the studio driven reboots and remakes where the suits had to drag the original creators around by their noses with promises of big fat pay cheques you would think one where the creatives behind it are trying to drum up studio interest would be tentatively exciting.
Fair enough. I'm going to check it out as well due to my love of the original. I used to follow his website where he had short descriptions of upcoming episodes a season or two in advance (can't see anyone doing that nowadays!) and try to imagine how they'd turn out. As for the spelling mistake, I did learn and made sure to look up my Tonight Show reference/joke just in case and was glad that I did. I almost spelled it with a K!
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
Earlier today, news hit that Nexstar Media Group had formally closed its deal to acquire 75% of The CW (with Warner Bros. Discovery & Paramount Global each retaining 12.5% ownership stakes). Along with that news also came word that Mark Pedowitz had stepped down as Chairman/CEO of the network after 11-1/2 years in charge, leading many to believe that was the final move in what will be a major programming overhaul of the networks. As we wrote earlier today, that leaves the statuses of a number of series in limbo and left wondering about their futures. One of those projects is J. Michael Straczynski's "from-the-ground-up" Babylon 5 reboot, and now JMS is offering an update to fans who were left wondering. "We ain't dead yet."
"There are still a lot of discussions going on behind the scenes, and no decision has yet been made about #B5onCWin23. As we await that decision, fans eager to see a new 'Babylon 5' series should continue to voice their support to [Nexstar Media Group] and [Warner Bros. TV]," JMS added in a tweet updating fans on where things stand. Following that, he had some kind words to share about Pedowitz, adding, "And though Mark Pedowitz is now on a new path into the future after leading the CW for 11 years, I want to thank him for his dedication to and support of Babylon 5 during all of this, right through to the events of today. He's a stand-up guy."
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
The CW nuked the excellent Swamp Thing show because executives personally disliked it. It also happened to be the only DC show which didn't ape Marvel movies. There's a lot of pressure on the people cranking out all of these derivative works and remakes to stick to that formula: twee, glib dialogue with YA level character development and CGI-heavy action scenes, and JMS has to know that B5 can easily get the Swamp Thing treatment if he strays too much.
I also thought that the cheesy look of the show and the wooden acting in the first few movies/episodes were part of the show's charm, but that is undoubtedly a minority opinion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/08 09:01:33
I also thought that the cheesy look of the show and the wooden acting in the first few movies/episodes were part of the show's charm, but that is undoubtedly a minority opinion.
For B5 or Swamp Thing? I never watched the latter.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
I also thought that the cheesy look of the show and the wooden acting in the first few movies/episodes were part of the show's charm, but that is undoubtedly a minority opinion.
For B5 or Swamp Thing? I never watched the latter.
B5. Commander Sinclair in particular reminded me of someone from an episode of MST3k. The actors in Swamp Thing were much better from the start - the execs just didn't like the idea of having a show where the superhero is a hideous monster who murders rednecks.
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