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Because RR aren't core ( which makes me rage) they will always underperform. You have to invest primus +15 and 2 units of 3. If you dont its just impossible without crossfire.

The question now is missiles or lasers?

Bladed cog is cool for them because you can deny cover because you don't need the flare launcher.

But if we are being honest.... hivecult RR is the only real playable one just because they can fall back and shoot.

Missiles for me. The mining laser can spike, but it can also whiff very badly. I just find missiles in general more reliable.

In regards to Ridgerunners I just feel like they might be something you have to lean hard into or just skip. I just can't find value in using an occasional model in the list.

I threw together an atalan focused list with 9 laser cars, 6 missiles 3 lascannons. Just need to spike a few.

So far I am enjoying the new codex. It seems like the designer focused on giving each unit a very well defined role (or set of roles). I felt the old book had this to some extent, but the new version is much more clear about what each unit is intended to do. Having traits on everything is also hugely liberating and in my case allows my mech builds to feel different from each other (whereas before Hivecult was the only creed that did anything for mech). I do miss my 6+++ on my vehicles and have considered building a custom creed to get that back (could use my own OMC for the keyword).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much (and if so forgive the redundancy) but the revised Conceal rules reveal at the end of the opponent's movement phase instead of the beginning of their shooting phase. The old version made us immune to the first psychic phase of the turn while the new timing allows powers to be used. Not a bad change, just one I didn't immediately catch until playing a game with my friend's Grey Knights.

Edit: Disregard above bit

I've had a couple games with the Ridgerunners and they have been performing similarly to how they did before (using Crossfire and Exposed to replicate the Alphus' +1 to hit and the Overcharged Weaponry respectively). Loss of rerolls is a bit sad, but in practice if they were running in any other creed than Hivecult they would not have had those anyway so I find it more a wash. I do like how they made the other weapons more viable options (even the mortar I could see being used as a niche tool to counter Hive Guard, provided a crossfire token was dropped on them first). Rockets are probably going to be the new "best" option due to the vastly improved consistency, though I think the Heavy Mining Laser still has a place for picking on armor (2+ to wound with exposed vs 4+ for rocket).

As a bit of a surprise, I really like the new Demolition Charge acolytes. They can't 1-round a Knight with weight of dice, but they can pick off a few opponents prior to charging in and do considerable damage with the new Reckless Explosives. I've been including 1 demolition specialist in my melee squads and they have consistently performed quite well in test games so far (albeit they have not ran into a major -1 damage spam list, though even there Reckless Explosives boosts the hit roll to a 2+ and they have a decent chance of getting more attacks at S8 than they would have with a different weapon).

Need to revisit my 5x2 Demolition wagons from 8th. Bit pricier than before, but with the new book 2 models can get the same number of shots as 4 so the squad can include a melee weapon for more flexibility after disembark (or just double down and get twice as many shots).

 Strat_N8 wrote:
So far I am enjoying the new codex. It seems like the designer focused on giving each unit a very well defined role (or set of roles). I felt the old book had this to some extent, but the new version is much more clear about what each unit is intended to do. Having traits on everything is also hugely liberating and in my case allows my mech builds to feel different from each other (whereas before Hivecult was the only creed that did anything for mech). I do miss my 6+++ on my vehicles and have considered building a custom creed to get that back (could use my own OMC for the keyword).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much (and if so forgive the redundancy) but the revised Conceal rules reveal at the end of the opponent's movement phase instead of the beginning of their shooting phase. The old version made us immune to the first psychic phase of the turn while the new timing allows powers to be used. Not a bad change, just one I didn't immediately catch until playing a game with my friend's Grey Knights.

.....

As a bit of a surprise, I really like the new Demolition Charge acolytes. They can't 1-round a Knight with weight of dice, but they can pick off a few opponents prior to charging in and do considerable damage with the new Reckless Explosives. I've been including 1 demolition specialist in my melee squads and they have consistently performed quite well in test games so far (albeit they have not ran into a major -1 damage spam list, though even there Reckless Explosives boosts the hit roll to a 2+ and they have a decent chance of getting more attacks at S8 than they would have with a different weapon).

Need to revisit my 5x2 Demolition wagons from 8th. Bit pricier than before, but with the new book 2 models can get the same number of shots as 4 so the squad can include a melee weapon for more flexibility after disembark (or just double down and get twice as many shots).

We never dodged a psychic phase in 8th. It was always end of movement phase.
I re tooled my 46 Flamer list to be roughly 32 flamers but have 25 Demo charges. Crossfire/exposed is making anything a great shooting army. One thing to note is that Acolytes can have models that Carry 2 demo charges. So you have one for the shooting phase and one for the charging phase. If you hit with it it triggers XFIRE. So strong.

The 4: 1 point custom cult ridgerunners are awesome.

DR1 is the bane of GSC right now. Ironically blowing up Rock Trucks is crazy hard to kill.

Not to be to pedantic, but you revealed the tokens in your opponents end of movement, not shooting phase.

I like the rest of the write up thouh. I have been keeping an eye on the dmeolition charges. Lying in wait seems like a good grenede delivery system. Or running out of fire trucks.

Good to hear ridgeruners performed like before. It is similar to what I was expecting.

From a pure theoretical standpoint I am a big fan of Nexos with Cranial Inlay Relic and tag teaming some other hero.

Jackal Alphus and Neophytes squads would be great as they would count as expsoded.

Primus for a general bonus, also works in melee.

But the Clavmagus combi is insane, as you can now also perform actions.This combo is a great supstetute for playing hivecult as potensially 3 units can now shoot and do actions.

Mind you, you might want to combine this with coming from deepstrike on the heroes the same turn as your units come in from reserves and/or transports, othervice the timing does not work.

What is DR1?

dreadlybrew wrote: We never dodged a psychic phase in 8th. It was always end of movement phase.

Well I feel rather silly. I double checked and sure enough the wording is more or less the same as the 8th edition version. Not sure where I got the idea that reveal was at the start of shooting phase, but I do owe my Grey Knight friend an apology for inadvertently cheating a few early 9th edition games...

dreadlybrew wrote:
I re tooled my 46 Flamer list to be roughly 32 flamers but have 25 Demo charges. Crossfire/exposed is making anything a great shooting army. One thing to note is that Acolytes can have models that Carry 2 demo charges. So you have one for the shooting phase and one for the charging phase. If you hit with it it triggers XFIRE. So strong.

Yes, I am glad they gave them an extra shot compared to Jackals. Gives them a different purpose.

I intend to revisit the 2x5 strong squads in a Goliath truck builds from 8th. It was always rather fun to lob 2-3 demolition charges during drive-bys without having to spend for extra explosives (since each squad could throw 1 grenade).

dreadlybrew wrote: The 4: 1 point custom cult ridgerunners are awesome.

I do intend to play with the traits a little bit. Right now I'm working my way through the main creeds to get a better understanding of what has changed with them on the table (on paper it is fairly obvious, but sometimes things play different in practice than in theory).

dreadlybrew wrote: DR1 is the bane of GSC right now. Ironically blowing up Rock Trucks is crazy hard to kill.

Yeah, I had my trucks weather more mid-grade fire than they are typically used to taking. I'm very curious to see what the best creed will be for Mech or what playstyles might emerge leveraging different abilities. I am glad we kept the Rigged to Blow strat too. I have had some fun driving a nearly dead Goliath into the heart of the enemy (after dropping off cargo) and daring them to finish it off. I had one lovely chain reaction against a poor guard player where a forced-detonating truck killed a Chimera (which exploded) and between the two they more or less wiped out everything in the vicinity.

Niiai wrote:What is DR1?

Damage Reduction 1. A surprising number of competitive armies are currently leveraging the mechanic rather heavily (Heamonculus Covens, Tyranid Crusher Stampede, Dreadnaught spam from various factions, Ork Buggies). We have a fair amount of Damage 2 (Rock Saws, Auto-cannons, Seismic Short-wave, Boneswords, Demolition Charges) which is mitigated by the reduction effect.

I suppose also to be fair, we can sorta do it too by spamming trucks, Aberrants, and rockgrinders.

I am really keen on getting some feedback by people who have played aberrants. I have a hard time eyeballing them.

I'm intending on taking mine out for a spin tomorrow. I still feel they are a bit pricey, but they did get a number of buffs (extra toughness, extra wound, no more hit-penalty on their high damage weaponry). The Abominant is also very improved at first glance. He can't be made quite as tanky as before (no warlord traits and the Bladed Cog relic is now capped at a 4++) but they buffed his offense considerably. The sledgehammer now does D3 + 3 damage instead of D6 min 3 and lost the -1 to hit penalty it had. While he doesn't get exploding 6's anymore, he does get a free reroll in exchange from his Mindwyrm familiar buddy which should help make him far more consistent.

The Biophagus is also hugely improved, so I'm looking forward to trying him out too (if nothing else, him getting the Rock Cutter's "snip" rule is hilarious to me).

 Niiai wrote:
I am really keen on getting some feedback by people who have played aberrants. I have a hard time eyeballing them.

Expensive and -1 D is not enough to keep them alive so they require even more investment then just the squad to make work.

Have you tried the ordana or is it just on paper?

I was hoping they could be the very rare anchor unit. 30 points, 3 wounds, T5, - 1 damage. But not to many attacks.

In previous editions a lot of units where not pure 'trading units', but 9th edition is so full of them as deadlyness has been turned up on all units. They have good damage, but very few attacks. Controversial in a codex known for having units that die easily. (Not unlike flesh sircus dark eldar.)

 Strat_N8 wrote:
So far I am enjoying the new codex. It seems like the designer focused on giving each unit a very well defined role (or set of roles). I felt the old book had this to some extent, but the new version is much more clear about what each unit is intended to do. Having traits on everything is also hugely liberating and in my case allows my mech builds to feel different from each other (whereas before Hivecult was the only creed that did anything for mech). I do miss my 6+++ on my vehicles and have considered building a custom creed to get that back (could use my own OMC for the keyword).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much (and if so forgive the redundancy) but the revised Conceal rules reveal at the end of the opponent's movement phase instead of the beginning of their shooting phase. The old version made us immune to the first psychic phase of the turn while the new timing allows powers to be used. Not a bad change, just one I didn't immediately catch until playing a game with my friend's Grey Knights.

Edit: Disregard above bit

I've had a couple games with the Ridgerunners and they have been performing similarly to how they did before (using Crossfire and Exposed to replicate the Alphus' +1 to hit and the Overcharged Weaponry respectively). Loss of rerolls is a bit sad, but in practice if they were running in any other creed than Hivecult they would not have had those anyway so I find it more a wash. I do like how they made the other weapons more viable options (even the mortar I could see being used as a niche tool to counter Hive Guard, provided a crossfire token was dropped on them first). Rockets are probably going to be the new "best" option due to the vastly improved consistency, though I think the Heavy Mining Laser still has a place for picking on armor (2+ to wound with exposed vs 4+ for rocket).

As a bit of a surprise, I really like the new Demolition Charge acolytes. They can't 1-round a Knight with weight of dice, but they can pick off a few opponents prior to charging in and do considerable damage with the new Reckless Explosives. I've been including 1 demolition specialist in my melee squads and they have consistently performed quite well in test games so far (albeit they have not ran into a major -1 damage spam list, though even there Reckless Explosives boosts the hit roll to a 2+ and they have a decent chance of getting more attacks at S8 than they would have with a different weapon).

Need to revisit my 5x2 Demolition wagons from 8th. Bit pricier than before, but with the new book 2 models can get the same number of shots as 4 so the squad can include a melee weapon for more flexibility after disembark (or just double down and get twice as many shots).

Wanna be real cheeky? On any ones to hit with Reckless Explosives remove the demo carrier then in your next command phase bring him back with a new demo charge by summoning the cult with an Iconward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
Have you tried the ordana or is it just on paper?

I was hoping they could be the very rare anchor unit. 30 points, 3 wounds, T5, - 1 damage. But not to many attacks.

In previous editions a lot of units where not pure 'trading units', but 9th edition is so full of them as deadlyness has been turned up on all units. They have good damage, but very few attacks. Controversial in a codex known for having units that die easily. (Not unlike flesh sircus dark eldar.)

Ordanas right that they need a lot of attention. If you bring them you should always reserve them under ground and expect to invest support models, more points and strats into them.

They are deceptively tanky verse hard hitting units, but in my games they got absolutely wrecked to volume of fire and attacks from beast snaggas one game. So if your meta has wrack spam, devil gaunts, or massed infantry from admech or anyone for that matter, you will really notice these guys not carrying their weight in investment.

After reading more, I am finally approaching a build/test list that I like!

My wallet weeps at the mere thought, but I think this army looks immensely fun.

Here is my latest incarnation - made the old school way with pen and paper, since BS hasn't been updated yet.



Lots of tricks, lots of assaulting, and a lot of hand flamers and drills. Not sure if this will work out in practice, but I am sure by the time I get it built and painted, the meta will have dictated GSC lists a lot better and I can adjust. Still open to all the feedback though, as until I click that order button, I can make larger changes.

Love the list. If you are going double detachment you should be doing double kellermorphs and sabotuers.

Dropping a single metamorph squad and the patriarch should get you about there with a few points shuffled around.


I've found that handflamers and claws are worth more than rock drills saws cutters because you engage in every/more phases and get more value out of having 3 attacks. Plus in the miraculous world where acolytes survive a fight through your turn if you dont want to psychic stimulus them you can just handflame in melee and use the cross fire strat to make their engagement partners fight last.

dreadlybrew wrote:
Love the list. If you are going double detachment you should be doing double kellermorphs and sabotuers.

Dropping a single metamorph squad and the patriarch should get you about there with a few points shuffled around.


I've found that handflamers and claws are worth more than rock drills saws cutters because you engage in every/more phases and get more value out of having 3 attacks. Plus in the miraculous world where acolytes survive a fight through your turn if you dont want to psychic stimulus them you can just handflame in melee and use the cross fire strat to make their engagement partners fight last.

Ooh. Yeah, I'll shuffle stuff around and see what I can squeeze in to an alternate list. I am not too keen on leaning into shooty elements as much with TH. Though I'm contemplating making it so I can run as Rusted Claw too when I want to go more shooting/Crossfire heavy. Really also a great excuse to paint up an Alphus.

The drills seem so solid, but if they underperform, definitely hand flamers. TH doesn't really benefit with the drills since they auto wound, so maybe that's a good call, though I do like having something that can put hurt on high toughness targets and those definitely can stack up damage.

Hand flamers and drills are awesome just because you don't roll for parts of your turn.

Flamers auto hit, drills auto wound. Its awesome.

They actually work well together for the fight last strat. But again. The problem is always that the unit doesn't really survive through a turn.

 Niiai wrote:
I am really keen on getting some feedback by people who have played aberrants. I have a hard time eyeballing them.

Have currently only used them in casual Crusade, and there they are extremely fun. I run Bladed Cog and give them 5++ save(expensive at 2CP) and with a 5+++ from the Doc they are there to stay. They do however need an Abominant to give them rerolls. In one game They dook down a Defiler, PBC, and a squad of 3 MBH along with their Abominant. So they are fun, but require a lot of comboing to make them work and I can't see it being reasonable in matched play.

So abberants got ruined by 2 attacks and losing their baked in 5+ fnp. They are chunky which is great. But litterally everything they compete with have twice as many attacks as them. And they often have invuln saves. So outside of bladed cog and twisted helix you get a t 5 save less unit that you need to spend 355 to 370 points on to make just barely playable and you need to spend 2 cp pre battle in bladed cog and you need to spend 1 cp for might from.beyond anywhere on the table buffing and you probably need to spend 1 cp to reroll your failed 3d6 charge. And I didn't even price the abdominant in there so your points total goes up to 485. And if you really want to save them 2 cp for transhuman protection which is per phase and not total turn.

So you just spent 485 points 3 elite slots added 2 characters to give up assassinate, cuz you probably aren't giving thr abdom a relic for another cp. And you spent 4 of your 8 to 9 cp just to make it playable.
For 21 attacks which might not be re rollable. At ap-2 3 damage. Who hit on 3s and they can fail to wound.

So are abberants good? Nope. At 30 points a model they basically lose you the game in trades. If they cost 25 each I would still say the same thing. Heck at 22 points I would be mad about playing them.

485 points is like 2.5 fully kitted out 15 man acolyte units with handflamers and rock drills which give you 2 chances to fail your charge, auto wound with ap 4 weapons and can put crossfire markers on stuff by themselves to deny overwatch and or make their target fight last. And with the same 1 cp for might from beyond you actually get (9 x4) +1 ap 2 attacks, plus 18 drills, saws, or cutters.

And you can make that unit 5+ fnp or ap5 for the lols or exploding 6s. And if I didn't say it again... they are obsec.

Are abberants good? Nope. Are they fun? Hell yes. I own 30 and run them all as often as I can. Dropping them to 18 points makes them worth considering. Because then you dont feel like you have to spend half of all of your cp on a non core, non obsec 21 attack unit for 1/4 of your list.

Ok ill stop my rant.

Aberrants are really weird to me. On paper they sound really disappointing but every single time I run them they out perform my expectations. 3D6 drop the lowest charge out of underground means that they can pop out and murder something quickly. 3W -1D is this magic spot where you need to hit them with a D4 weapon in order to flat out kill one or two D3 hits. They are a bit tanky not because of their saves but just because they take a lot of firepower to move. Plus, charging a group of Aberrants into a squad of Bladeguard in my last game was just a great feeling.

The unit I am having the most issues with are Jackals. I love Jackals, I run as many as I can due to my primary Cult being the Rusted Claw. Every game I have played them in I find them to just be disappointing. Even with a -1 to hit 2W bodies they just die so easily. So much of the meta is designed to kill 2W models because of space marines so you are really banking on that -1 to hit to protect them. Maybe it is just the armies I have played against but anything like plasma with some form of rerolls just shreds Jackals so easily.

I think that at 30ppm they definitely should have kept their FnP built in. Have the biophagus raise it to 4++ if they take that upgrade.

You need to run smaller jackal units.they are better when they aren't a big target. 3 5 mans with oodles of demo charges will both survive longer than a 10 man and do more damage. They are easier to hide wont run from morale and tend to fit better wherever you need them.

Don't get me wrong. I have 45 jackals and the max is 30 (weeping) but unless you deep strike them with the 3 inch or free move scout when they appear in ambush they are gonna get burned down. Basically the bigger they are the easier it is for an opponent to throw math at them. The smaller it is it takes more of thier shooting and you can annoyingly pull out of sight.

Madjob wrote:
I think that at 30ppm they definitely should have kept their FnP built in. Have the biophagus raise it to 4++ if they take that upgrade.

Definitely agree with this.

First atempt at new list. It is based on the old 8th edion codex list i ran. That one has to cut very low on characters to fit inn enough scary troops. Supprice supprice I do not have the points for all the sweet toys here either.

Deploy two Goliath and 2 transports on the field. 1 truck with acolytes, 1 with purestrains. Have 6 ridgerunners shooting backup. One unit of purestrains with they came from below to threaten turn 1 charges.

Have Neophytes come on and shoot with the wound on 6 stratagem. They have 5+++ from biomagus.

2 small units of acolytes to trigger exposed (one of them with lying in wait and demo charges.)

1 big acolytes with a trap is sprung to get that chargec. Biomagus and possible Iconward deploy with these. Magus goes where they please.

Cult is remarkably bad at the mirror match.

The 9 inch bubble means you can force the turn 1 purestrains to need a 10 inch charge. Dr1 on trucks means your demo charges only do 1 damage.

And I play rusted claw. So even abberant hammers are reduced to damage 2, ap 1


All of our characters can be sniped and murdered by our characters.

Going into my second cult v cult game today.

Last gsc v gsc game I virtually tabled my opponent turn 2.

What are our options in the mirror?

dreadlybrew wrote:
Cult is remarkably bad at the mirror match.

The 9 inch bubble means you can force the turn 1 purestrains to need a 10 inch charge. Dr1 on trucks means your demo charges only do 1 damage.

And I play rusted claw. So even abberant hammers are reduced to damage 2, ap 1


All of our characters can be sniped and murdered by our characters.

Going into my second cult v cult game today.

Last gsc v gsc game I virtually tabled my opponent turn 2.

What are our options in the mirror?

Deadly.

quite literally, the one that gets in the first blood that matters has an extremely high chance to win. Atleast that was what it looked like at my local FLGS table

It also happens to be who can be more mobile, respond to the threats the other player is throwing. And it might just be the gsc player who goes second wins.

dreadlybrew wrote:
It also happens to be who can be more mobile, respond to the threats the other player is throwing. And it might just be the gsc player who goes second wins.

Hence first relevant blood and not going first, Quite contrary someone going afterwards might hold the better cards due to reserves etc.

Today i found out that if you are fast enough and you have enough characters you can stop your opponent from deep striking at all.

Also I am warming up to the destroy critical objectives secondary. But there are a few conditions that go with it.

- your opponent must have many fewer units than you

- the objective mission has at least 5 objectives. So they are constantly having to divert forces away from letting you score the secondary. This lets you focus on primary big turn 1/2. Also based on the way the objectives have to stay apart they tend to not be able to be hidden behind terrain.

- stage your crossfire around the extra objectives. They are going to be in weird hard to hide spots. And they want to devote units so you don't just score 9 points. Which means they are stuck where you want them

New list to look at, please.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/803381.page;jsessionid=113B526F481F3B1DDBFF486F11D5338A

I have been thinking through some cheeky possibilities - not sure how useful these will be in-game, but the Normal Moves produced by They Came From Below or Kelermorph's hypersensory abilities or even Prowling Agitant should all allow you to embark on a transport if you end within 3" of it. PA seems like a great way to make a multi-charge fail as you stroll away, but I think the combination of a Goliath disembarking a combat unit on one side of an enemy unit, driving past, and picking up the Kelermorph after both units have fired with (potentially) Crossfire and Exposed, then the Truck can shoot it's cache of demo charges, before the disembarked unit charges in to mop up. is hilarious.
Probably more common is dropping the Keler at 6" and a Neo unit behind, then Keler wandering back after shooting to avoid immediate retaliation, while still giving heroic inspiration to the unit. This would be the perfect time to overcharge those mining weapons.
I am struggling a bit to see how to make From Every Angle work well in round one, given the restrictions still keep you outside of opponent DZ and off their table edge.On most maps, this only leaves you marginally further forward than you could get normally, and unless you go second, not in a position to even set up crossfires. What are people's thoughts/ experiences with this?

From Every Angle can be nice to keep a unit of Ridgerunners safe from shooting if your going second.