Dudeface wrote:
Impending generalising of chosen weapons apparently, seems very suspicious to me:

"Leak about chosen.

Chosen in the box eldritch omens are still at their 8ed codex datasheet (so dont be surprised by 1w and seeing TH as an option)

In the new book, their base loadout is boltgun & accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)

For every 5 models, can replace 2 boltguns with 2 pistols

For every 5 models, can replace 2 boltguns with 2 combis

For every 5 models, can replace 1 boltgun for a second accursed weapon.

Chosen have been confirmed to me to be ws/bs 3 and 3a base"

Rihgu wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

In a way, this isn't the worst thing. It means you can have a mishmash of weapons for looks (for those fluff bunnies that mix everything, anyway) but you only need to roll for one profile. If anything, it's brilliant.

The real question will come down to cost, rest of the range options, and access to D2+ weapons.

If this is true, then your D2+ weapons will be overcharged plasma, melta, and probably a stratagem (ugh) that turns all of your Accursed Weapons into power fists for a turn. Their effectiveness will probably come down to what combinations of Icon + Daemonic Gift + trait you can give them.

I don't know... It does feel very wrong. It's a whole part of the hobby no ? To customize, to play with and to paint "your dudes". Like with the harly weapons it seem like they didn't even want to bother.
And remember that rumour says that Chaos Knights will come out before us. So it's two releases at least before we finally get our second wound.

I don't need a special rule to tell me that my Chosen wielding an axe is a different special guy with a different special weapon than my Chosen wielding a sword. I especially don't need to spend 3 hours resolving the attacks of my super unique super special super squad because each one has been customized with a unique weapon.

Consolidated weapons like harlequins and Chosen (if these are true) are, for me, the best way for them to allow me to fully customize and play with my dudes. I have honestly been *not* building Chosen specifically because I didn't want to play with their messy weapon options, and also didn't want to optimize and take this year's strongest weapons. Chosen are supposed to be unique guys with their own preferred ways of doing things, having all of them wield a chainsword and a plasma gun doesn't show case that at all. Having Kroghas wield a power axe, Chulxiss wield a chainsword, and Trommal wield a thunder hammer but still being able to quickly roll all my attacks at once is perfect.

drbored wrote:
These rules could just be the rules that we're getting in the Eldritch Omens box and not what will be represented in the Codex whenever it comes out. GW have done this sort of thing before (remember the rules disparity between the armigers in Forgebane and in the actual Knights codex?)

but thematically it goes against everything that Chosen are.

Each Chosen is a step (or betrayal) away from becoming a Lord in their own right, and having them all baked down into one flat weapon profile is bleh.

Not Online!!! wrote:

AL literally regard their cultists as members of the legion.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I do not believe that they would take:

1. Chainswords
2. Chainaxes
3. Power Swords
4. Power Axes
5. Power Mauls
6. Lightning Claws
7. Power Fists

... and make them all the same weapon with the same profile.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I do not believe that they would take:

1. Chainswords
2. Chainaxes
3. Power Swords
4. Power Axes
5. Power Mauls
6. Lightning Claws
7. Power Fists

... and make them all the same weapon with the same profile.

 Predaking wrote:


Why would you treat the bottom of the barrel barely human the same as another super human killing machine?

 Crimson wrote:

But like I said, the following would be fine by me, and actually preferable to the current situation:
1. Chainswords and Chainaxes
2. Power Swords, Power Axes and Power Mauls
3. Lightning Claws
4. Power Fists

So four different profiles instead of seven, and gives you a tad more freedom to model some variety without the rules getting excessively fiddly.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 Predaking wrote:


Why would you treat the bottom of the barrel barely human the same as another super human killing machine?

Because Khorne cares not from where the blood flows.

Because Grandfather Nurgle loves all of his children. (And everyone can spread his gifts equally )

Because for Tzeentch, the great architect of change, even the lowliest cultist is one cunning plan away from becoming the crucial pawn that will push the wheel of fate into motion.

Because Slanesh revels in the beauty of all ecstasies and the miserable surrendering themselves for forbidden pleasures are worth as much as tyrants entertaining the grossest excesses.

It might be a bit head canon-y but the universalism of what the chaos gods value and what they offer is one of the reasons why you can find droves of cultists willing to risk everything to worship them. Most of the renegade legions and other Chaos Space Marines worship the chaos gods as well. And a lot of them do so in the hope of literally become part of them as they ascend into deamonhood. And I think that means that it would be at least believable that some former super duper demi-gods would consider their fellow renegades as, well, fellow cultist. Like, I'm not saying veterans of the long war should walk hand-in-hand with Cletinius, cultist from hive world #459712. But cultist are at least as important to chaos as Space Marine when it comes to corrupting the galaxy.

At least, that's what I think

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I was thinking more about this close combat weapon thing whilst on my walk today, and something occurred to me:

The sudden removal of differing types of close combat weapons actually makes perfect sense.

"But wait, HBMDVD... did you just say it makes perfect sense?"

I did. It makes perfect sense for the purposes of not invalidating models, whilst ensuring that any new models can still be played. It actually becomes better than weapon restrictions based on the sprue.

"But wait, HBMHDDVD... you hate weapon restrictions, and you hate removing options, so how is this better?"

If you look at this, as we have been, from the perspective of Chosen, this doesn't seem to track. Why would they do this to Chosen? But if you look at this from the perspective of the even more restrictive Chaos Terminator kit, it actually makes sense.

Think about it: We're worried that the restrictive weapon options will be applied to various units in the upcoming Chaos Codex. Chosen are one such area, but Terminators have it even worse, with one of each type of weapon (except fists, I think) in their box.

So what's the solution? Make them all the same! Rather than "One in five Chaos Termiantor can have a Chainaxe, one in five Chaos Terminators can have a Power Sword"... and so on, you just make them all the same. Now it doesn't matter what you give your Terminators, and it doesn't matter what any Terminators you already own are modelled with.

Then apply that to Chosen, and even CSM Squads, and Raptors and anything that can take those special weapons.

Everything becomes a "Generic Close Combat Weapon", and therefore every model has been invalidated (technically) whilst still being perfectly valid to use.

Genius (by GW standards).

"Who am I even talking to now, HBMBlu-Ray Director's Cut? You've gone mad!"

Oh I still think the whole affair is pants-on-head stupid, and that absolutely none of this is at all necessary. The weapons should do what the weapons do, and you should be able to use them without the utterly asinine restrictions GW has placed upon many units of late since the Death Guard Codex.

But, changing to these one-size-fits-all close combat weapons at least makes sense in a twisted-not-at-all-logical sort of GW way.

Plus there's a level of cosmic irony that, should this be true, the Chaos Codex will once again find itself getting Jervis'd. In fact, it'd be the first large-scale post-Jervis Jervisification!

 Crimson wrote:
I hope you're right, but who knows... And it certainly would be super weird if the similar looking weapons would continue to work normally in other units.

But like I said, the following would be fine by me, and actually preferable to the current situation:
1. Chainswords and Chainaxes
2. Power Swords, Power Axes and Power Mauls
3. Lightning Claws
4. Power Fists

So four different profiles instead of seven, and gives you a tad more freedom to model some variety without the rules getting excessively fiddly.

drbored wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

In a way, this isn't the worst thing. It means you can have a mishmash of weapons for looks (for those fluff bunnies that mix everything, anyway) but you only need to roll for one profile. If anything, it's brilliant.

The real question will come down to cost, rest of the range options, and access to D2+ weapons.

If this is true, then your D2+ weapons will be overcharged plasma, melta, and probably a stratagem (ugh) that turns all of your Accursed Weapons into power fists for a turn. Their effectiveness will probably come down to what combinations of Icon + Daemonic Gift + trait you can give them.

I don't know... It does feel very wrong. It's a whole part of the hobby no ? To customize, to play with and to paint "your dudes". Like with the harly weapons it seem like they didn't even want to bother.
And remember that rumour says that Chaos Knights will come out before us. So it's two releases at least before we finally get our second wound.

I don't need a special rule to tell me that my Chosen wielding an axe is a different special guy with a different special weapon than my Chosen wielding a sword. I especially don't need to spend 3 hours resolving the attacks of my super unique super special super squad because each one has been customized with a unique weapon.

Consolidated weapons like harlequins and Chosen (if these are true) are, for me, the best way for them to allow me to fully customize and play with my dudes. I have honestly been *not* building Chosen specifically because I didn't want to play with their messy weapon options, and also didn't want to optimize and take this year's strongest weapons. Chosen are supposed to be unique guys with their own preferred ways of doing things, having all of them wield a chainsword and a plasma gun doesn't show case that at all. Having Kroghas wield a power axe, Chulxiss wield a chainsword, and Trommal wield a thunder hammer but still being able to quickly roll all my attacks at once is perfect.

Big disagree. I can see the time saved, but thematically it goes against everything that Chosen are. You could just as easily take a squad of Khorne Berzerkers or Warp Talons or anything else if all you wanted to do was roll a bunch of the same attack to blend something up. Each Chosen is a step (or betrayal) away from becoming a Lord in their own right, and having them all baked down into one flat weapon profile is bleh.

They gave Black Templar sword brethren different weapon profiles, so why couldn't they do the same with Chosen?

But, again, I stand by my prediction that these are just the Eldritch Omens rules and not the Codex rules, and will be disappointed or delighted accordingly when the codex comes out.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Last I checked, the Sword Brethren profile was awfully done

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I forget. How many kinds of boltguns do Primaris Space Marines have again?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Last I checked, the Sword Brethren profile was awfully done

It's nicely formatted, said the man, damning with faint praise:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I forget. How many kinds of boltguns do Primaris Space Marines have again?

Doobie! You're like a moth to flame when Chaos threads appear. Never a bad thing.

And yeah, Marines have, I believe, 16 and a half different types of Boltgun currently. But you know how it goes: And They Shall Know No Inconvenient Rules.

drbored wrote:
The solution that people want, just so that it can be said and on the record is this:

Give us a box with enough options to kit out the squad in interesting and varied ways.

ie, a Chosen box should have enough weapons to give them all chainswords and bolt pistols or bolters, to start.

There should be at least enough of 1 or 2 special weapons to kit the entire squad of 5 (ie, 5 power fists or 5 power swords) and a handful of special weapons that can be given to the champion (lightning claws, power axe, power maul).

It would be a whole extra sprue, add another 30 dollars to the kit, and make the 3rd party bits market swell, but it would be what people want, or closer to it than we currently have.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I do not believe that they would take:

1. Chainswords
2. Chainaxes
3. Power Swords
4. Power Axes
5. Power Mauls
6. Lightning Claws
7. Power Fists

... and make them all the same weapon with the same profile.

drbored wrote:

It would be a whole extra sprue, add another 30 dollars to the kit, and make the 3rd party bits market swell, but it would be what people want, or closer to it than we currently have.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Last I checked, the Sword Brethren profile was awfully done

It's nicely formatted, said the man, damning with faint praise:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I hope you're right, but who knows... And it certainly would be super weird if the similar looking weapons would continue to work normally in other units.

But like I said, the following would be fine by me, and actually preferable to the current situation:
1. Chainswords and Chainaxes
2. Power Swords, Power Axes and Power Mauls
3. Lightning Claws
4. Power Fists

So four different profiles instead of seven, and gives you a tad more freedom to model some variety without the rules getting excessively fiddly.

Wouldn't it be:
1) Chain weapons
2) Power weapons
3) Lightning Claws
4) Power Fists?

Where do chain fists fit in or, are they a 5th category?

I did. It makes perfect sense for the purposes of not invalidating models, whilst ensuring that any new models can still be played. It actually becomes better than weapon restrictions based on the sprue.

 Eldarsif wrote:

I did. It makes perfect sense for the purposes of not invalidating models, whilst ensuring that any new models can still be played. It actually becomes better than weapon restrictions based on the sprue.

They started doing this to some units in AoS(first saw combining in Blades of Khorne in 2.0) and it has been rearing its beautiful head elsewhere as well(GSC Hybrids and Metamorphs f.ex.). I just wish they had done this with Death Guard as well.

I would say this is an ideal solution to a game that has decades of weapon option bloat and is causing endless balance issues. One day Chainaxe is king and the next release it is chainsword, and what players get to do is to rip their models apart or buy new ones. So I prefer consolidation personally.

Plus for modelling purposes I love consolidation. I can personalize how my model looks without worrying that I am gimping it for the next ten years because of the rules.