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Daedalus81 wrote: I find it kind of sad that the hive mind has popularized denigrating the idea that a person should have all the facts in front of them being making a judgement or reaction.
Not even close, D.
The "wAiT aNd SeE" meme isn't denigrating the idea that a person should have all the facts before leaping to conclusions. It's ridiculing those that are too stubborn to engage in any level of speculation and those who refuse to draw any conclusions whatsoever, no matter the situation, and that now no matter how much is reported, there's always still more to 'wait' for.
Also, that even with the text in front of them (like the Eldritch Omens Autarch rules), in black and white for all the world to see, they will stubbornly insist that it will magically be different in a book that already went to print.
Daedalus81 wrote: I find it kind of sad that the hive mind has popularized denigrating the idea that a person should have all the facts in front of them being making a judgement or reaction.
Not even close, D.
The "wAiT aNd SeE" meme isn't denigrating the idea that a person should have all the facts before leaping to conclusions. It's ridiculing those that are too stubborn to engage in any level of speculation and those who refuse to draw any conclusions whatsoever, no matter the situation, and that now no matter how much is reported, there's always still more to 'wait' for.
Also, that even with the text in front of them (like the Eldritch Omens Autarch rules), in black and white for all the world to see, they will stubbornly insist that it will magically be different in a book that already went to print.
Nah, the Autarch thing is something the fans just have to browbeat GW on so they can give us the loadouts that should be available.
Worked with the Worldclaimer + Raptors fiasco, should work here.
Daedalus81 wrote: I find it kind of sad that the hive mind has popularized denigrating the idea that a person should have all the facts in front of them being making a judgement or reaction.
Not even close, D.
The "wAiT aNd SeE" meme isn't denigrating the idea that a person should have all the facts before leaping to conclusions. It's ridiculing those that are too stubborn to engage in any level of speculation and those who refuse to draw any conclusions whatsoever, no matter the situation, and that now no matter how much is reported, there's always still more to 'wait' for.
Also, that even with the text in front of them (like the Eldritch Omens Autarch rules), in black and white for all the world to see, they will stubbornly insist that it will magically be different in a book that already went to print.
Nah, the Autarch thing is something the fans just have to browbeat GW on so they can give us the loadouts that should be available.
Worked with the Worldclaimer + Raptors fiasco, should work here.
Worldclaimer never got to use his spear in melee. So oh well.
That's great and all, but I'd trade every word of these extra multi-layered rules for the ability to just give my Exalted Champion any weapons I choose.
The old school rending rule. Very nice coupled with CSM buffed attacks and all the melee other rules we're getting. It's a shame is Khorne specific though. Oh well...can't wait to see what Slaanesh and Nurgle get.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 03:32:09
How exactly are those Night Lords Chosen going to "flatout wipe the floor" with their whopping two combi-meltas?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: That's great and all, but I'd trade every word of these extra multi-layered rules for the ability to just give my Exalted Champion any weapons I choose.
And I'd trade them for jump packs for my characters.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 03:32:38
Gadzilla666 wrote: How exactly are those Night Lords Chosen going to "flatout wipe the floor" with their whopping two combi-meltas?
You got me there. I think he's alluding to Chosen having two of these warband traits. So maybe along with the +4" to range other than grenade and relics. That's something I suppose.
Gadzilla666 wrote: How exactly are those Night Lords Chosen going to "flatout wipe the floor" with their whopping two combi-meltas?
You got me there. I think he's alluding to Chosen having two of these warband traits. So maybe along with the +4" to range other than grenade and relics. That's something I suppose.
The leak says that they get one, in addition to the actual Legion trait. So the only way they could have the Tzeentch trait and the +4 range trait is if you were running a custom warband, at which point you wouldn't be getting the Night Lords trait.
Oh...you're right. Okay, I have no idea what he's going on about either. Gaining +1 to wound and re-rolling 1 to wound isn't a bad combo in melee though, assuming you can get them there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 04:11:45
My comment was based on the fact that chosen can be taken in in squads of 10, 4 meltas with +1 to wound and rerolling 1 to wound or 1 damage roll, is nothing to scoff at.
clockworkchris9 wrote: My comment was based on the fact that chosen can be taken in in squads of 10, 4 meltas with +1 to wound and rerolling 1 to wound or 1 damage roll, is nothing to scoff at.
I can scoff at it when the points are going to be over 200 for that.
clockworkchris9 wrote: My comment was based on the fact that chosen can be taken in in squads of 10, 4 meltas with +1 to wound and rerolling 1 to wound or 1 damage roll, is nothing to scoff at.
I can scoff at it when the points are going to be over 200 for that.
Never are the points going to be under 200
We can assume csm get the Same pricetag as Tac marines, there is no Way that chosen remains under sternguard pts wise unless gw seriously cranked up the codex creep.
The mere fact that you need 10 chosen to Make a dedicated at sqaud in the first place is stupid enough, without access to droppods.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 09:27:58
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
clockworkchris9 wrote: My comment was based on the fact that chosen can be taken in in squads of 10, 4 meltas with +1 to wound and rerolling 1 to wound or 1 damage roll, is nothing to scoff at.
I can scoff at it when the points are going to be over 200 for that.
Never are the points going to be under 200
We can assume csm get the Same pricetag as Tac marines, there is no Way that chosen remains under sternguard pts wise unless gw seriously cranked up the codex creep.
The mere fact that you need 10 chosen to Make a dedicated at sqaud in the first place is stupid enough, without access to droppods.
They'll be more expensive than Sternguard. An extra wound, attack, considerably better melee capability, and the "free" trait. And even if you paid the 115 PPM for the Dreadclaw, you'd: 1; come down outside of melta range, and 2; outside of the range of the Night Lords leadership debuff, meaning unless you have another unit within 9', the "super doctrine" would only work on a L6 or less vehicle. No, of these I'd definitely go with Khorne. But seriously, it's probably better to go Nurgle, because at least then they might survive long enough to actually do something.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That's great and all, but I'd trade every word of these extra multi-layered rules for the ability to just give my Exalted Champion any weapons I choose.
Same!
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That's great and all, but I'd trade every word of these extra multi-layered rules for the ability to just give my Exalted Champion any weapons I choose.
Yeah. Seriously GW...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 18:55:13
Drachnyen has pierce and sweep profile.
8A/S10/AP-4/Dam D3/6+ to wound causes D3 MW 16A/S7/AP-4/Dam 1
Always fights first
-1 to wound
First failed save reduced to 0 damage
+1S on the charge
Can only take max 3 damage per phase
Full rerolls
Charge bonus
Supposedly very pricy (would be around 300 ish points)
Custom traits:
After charging, in melee 6s to hit auto wound (Khorne specific)
In melee or shooting, reroll 1 wound or 1 damage (Tzeentch specific)
+1 to wound vs half strength unit (Nurgle specific)
+1ap on a 6 to wound unmodified (Slaanesh specific)
+1 to advance and charge rolls
+1 to hit when targeting closest enemy unit
+1 movement & strength
+4" to range other than grenade and relic
After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game
If you take this one you can't take a second custom trait, also Chosen can't take this one:
Ignore CA Fallback and shoot & fallback and charge, but with -1 to hit for the rest of the turn (unmarked specific, so no marks allowed)
Also he says there are no HQ upgrades like space marines. We get marks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hopefully, EC Chosen are not locked to the Slaanesh Specific custom trait. They're already AP-3 with +1AP on an unmodified 6 to wound.
I assume that marked units can't take other gods specific traits so: +1 to advance and charge rolls, or +1 movement & strength would work nicely.
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2022/03/11 19:49:29
Hmm....now I think I can build a real Night Lords Legion trait. I'm thinking, +1 to charge and advance and +1 to strength and movement, add Marks and Icons to taste per unit. Go straight for their throats.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Hmm....now I think I can build a real Night Lords Legion trait. I'm thinking, +1 to charge and advance and +1 to strength and movement, add Marks and Icons to taste per unit. Go straight for their throats.
Now if only we could build a real CSM codex we'd be getting somewhere
Daedalus81 wrote:Hurrr...Abaddon with 3 per phase...no more character protection?
Possibly going to 10+ wounds?
NinthMusketeer wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote: Hmm....now I think I can build a real Night Lords Legion trait. I'm thinking, +1 to charge and advance and +1 to strength and movement, add Marks and Icons to taste per unit. Go straight for their throats.
Now if only we could build a real CSM codex we'd be getting somewhere
That's easy. Take a copy of 3.5, write "THESE ARE A HEAVY SUPPORT CHOICE" above the Obliterators entry, and then you take a permanent marker and mark out Siren. Done.
Drachnyen has pierce and sweep profile.
8A/S10/AP-4/Dam D3/6+ to wound causes D3 MW 16A/S7/AP-4/Dam 1
Always fights first
-1 to wound
First failed save reduced to 0 damage
+1S on the charge
Can only take max 3 damage per phase
Full rerolls
Charge bonus
Supposedly very pricy (would be around 300 ish points)
Custom traits:
After charging, in melee 6s to hit auto wound (Khorne specific)
In melee or shooting, reroll 1 wound or 1 damage (Tzeentch specific)
+1 to wound vs half strength unit (Nurgle specific)
+1ap on a 6 to wound unmodified (Slaanesh specific)
+1 to advance and charge rolls
+1 to hit when targeting closest enemy unit
+1 movement & strength
+4" to range other than grenade and relic
After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game
If you take this one you can't take a second custom trait, also Chosen can't take this one:
Ignore CA Fallback and shoot & fallback and charge, but with -1 to hit for the rest of the turn (unmarked specific, so no marks allowed)
Also he says there are no HQ upgrades like space marines. We get marks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hopefully, EC Chosen are not locked to the Slaanesh Specific custom trait. They're already AP-3 with +1AP on an unmodified 6 to wound.
I assume that marked units can't take other gods specific traits so: +1 to advance and charge rolls, or +1 movement & strength would work nicely.
Abaddon lookss spicy but I think you could see most of those changes coming tbf (-1W, re-rolls, FF, Drach to -4 and doing MW and also having two profiles), the only one that takes me by surprise is the ignoring damage on the first unsaved wound. I wonder what the ToH will do now then? Probably just a D3 PF I bet or maybe toned down to be like a DP talon (making an extra attack or two) that hits like a slightly stronger LC.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/11 22:11:49
Daedalus81 wrote:I would think he'll be like C'Tan at W9. I don't think we've seen phase limiting go beyond three times the limit.
He has the Tzeentch save and he's a smaller model so he'll probably be ok, but just feels weird at the moment.
Possibly. He still sounds pretty durable, even without character protection.
But, OH! The first "Unmarked" Legion trait! That could work, as long as the -1 to hit only applies to shooting, and not melee. Ignoring CA doesn't sound very "Night Lords" though. Be interesting to see the other Unmarked traits
Daedalus81 wrote:I would think he'll be like C'Tan at W9. I don't think we've seen phase limiting go beyond three times the limit.
He has the Tzeentch save and he's a smaller model so he'll probably be ok, but just feels weird at the moment.
Possibly. He still sounds pretty durable, even without character protection.
But, OH! The first "Unmarked" Legion trait! That could work, as long as the -1 to hit only applies to shooting, and not melee. Ignoring CA doesn't sound very "Night Lords" though. Be interesting to see the other Unmarked traits
Daedalus81 wrote:I would think he'll be like C'Tan at W9. I don't think we've seen phase limiting go beyond three times the limit.
He has the Tzeentch save and he's a smaller model so he'll probably be ok, but just feels weird at the moment.
Possibly. He still sounds pretty durable, even without character protection.
But, OH! The first "Unmarked" Legion trait! That could work, as long as the -1 to hit only applies to shooting, and not melee. Ignoring CA doesn't sound very "Night Lords" though. Be interesting to see the other Unmarked traits
It's also coming through a game of "telephone" between the actual leaker and Clockworkchris. That's why it went from "everything gets a Legion trait" to "everything gets a Legion trait EXCEPT Cultists". Sometimes information gets muddled in the transcription process. They've been making Dd3 weapons do a flat number of damage all through 9th edition codexes. I doubt they'll leave Abby out. I just hope that they do the same for the Claws of the Black Hunt.
- 10,000 pts CSM 
