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Seems possible the Greater Possessed model will become the new Possessed model with that statline.
Also, I just want to make a moment to laugh out loud at the poster saying it would be ludicrous to have a 40 wound unit in the game. How many wounds does a unit of 6 Crisis Battlesuits and 12 Shield Drones have?
Oh, but it must be because they don't have psykers and can't buff the unit up. I too would feel sorry for any unit that can only receive 5+++ FNP, -1 to be hit, -2 to be charged, ignore all hit modifiers, re-roll all hits, re-roll all wounds, +1 to hit, +1 AP, +1 AP (not a typo), fall back and shoot, advance and shoot, gain obsec, advance 8", shoot and move, shoot and do actions.
EightFoldPath wrote: Seems possible the Greater Possessed model will become the new Possessed model with that statline.
Also, I just want to make a moment to laugh out loud at the poster saying it would be ludicrous to have a 40 wound unit in the game. How many wounds does a unit of 6 Crisis Battlesuits and 12 Shield Drones have?
Oh, but it must be because they don't have psykers and can't buff the unit up. I too would feel sorry for any unit that can only receive 5+++ FNP, -1 to be hit, -2 to be charged, ignore all hit modifiers, re-roll all hits, re-roll all wounds, +1 to hit, +1 AP, +1 AP (not a typo), fall back and shoot, advance and shoot, gain obsec, advance 8", shoot and move, shoot and do actions.
Yeah but thats ok because Tau are bad at close combat, sometimes, when they aren't able to shoot in it, and assuming you even get close enough to charge......
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
Gadzilla666 wrote: More rumours from B&C courtesy of Clockworkchris. And I remind everyone that these are rumours, and the person providing them says they're coming from early playtest rules, not an actual codex:
Possessed are M9
All "standard weapons", IE bolters, chainswords, lascannons, are the same profile as current.
New stratagems:
+1 to hit for Terminators and Chosen.
Fire Frenzy: Shooting Phase - if a HELLBRUTE has been hit, it can fire at the unit that hit it or the closest enemy unit. (I assume that this is in the opponent's Shooting Phase).
Of course Fire Frenzy would be a strat I guess it's to be expected that Lazcannons wouldn't get a glow up. But how much do you want to bet that Space Marine 2.0 will have something better ?
Gadzilla666 wrote: More rumours from B&C courtesy of Clockworkchris. And I remind everyone that these are rumours, and the person providing them says they're coming from early playtest rules, not an actual codex:
Possessed are M9
All "standard weapons", IE bolters, chainswords, lascannons, are the same profile as current.
New stratagems:
+1 to hit for Terminators and Chosen.
Fire Frenzy: Shooting Phase - if a HELLBRUTE has been hit, it can fire at the unit that hit it or the closest enemy unit. (I assume that this is in the opponent's Shooting Phase).
Of course Fire Frenzy would be a strat I guess it's to be expected that Lazcannons wouldn't get a glow up. But how much do you want to bet that Space Marine 2.0 will have something better ?
And if it does? How much do you want to bet it won't apply to CSM? At least for a loooong time.
Can't let too many things have their own special rules. Have to turn ultra-specific rules that apply to only one unit type into a strat. It's easier for the players. #BESPOKE!!!
DreadfullyHopeful wrote: I guess it's to be expected that Lazcannons wouldn't get a glow up. But how much do you want to bet that Space Marine 2.0 will have something better ?
Las-Talons will get the glow-up. Only* Primaris Marines have them.
Gadzilla666 wrote: And if it does? How much do you want to bet it won't apply to CSM? At least for a loooong time.
Well of course not. Chaos Marines don't have Las-Talons. Only the Legions of Cawl have those.
*And one aircraft, for the pedants...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/23 01:51:46
ArcaneHorror wrote: I really hope those possessed stats are ported over to the Death Guard.
Even chance they just get cut because they're not Death Guard Possessed.
I hope that doesn't happen, but I doubt it will. The fact that the Death Guard ones got rules updates tells me that they're gonna be around. I honestly don't mind if the greater possessed become the normal ones, though I will miss the unique rules and fluff that came them. I just hope that we get a handful of new models to go along with the two others, which the rumors do seem to be suggesting.
I'm prepared for space marine bolt weapons to go up by an extra strength and ap across the board and for that to not apply to Chaos Marines for another 2 years.
drbored wrote: I'm prepared for space marine bolt weapons to go up by an extra strength and ap across the board and for that to not apply to Chaos Marines for another 2 years.
After the fleshborer update ? Wouldn't be surprised.
EightFoldPath wrote: Seems possible the Greater Possessed model will become the new Possessed model with that statline.
Also, I just want to make a moment to laugh out loud at the poster saying it would be ludicrous to have a 40 wound unit in the game. How many wounds does a unit of 6 Crisis Battlesuits and 12 Shield Drones have?
Oh, but it must be because they don't have psykers and can't buff the unit up. I too would feel sorry for any unit that can only receive 5+++ FNP, -1 to be hit, -2 to be charged, ignore all hit modifiers, re-roll all hits, re-roll all wounds, +1 to hit, +1 AP, +1 AP (not a typo), fall back and shoot, advance and shoot, gain obsec, advance 8", shoot and move, shoot and do actions.
Almost like you agree that a buffed large wound heavy blob is durable and hard to remove, much like the point you were laughing at?
tneva82 wrote: Except tau unit is hard to remove. 2w basic marines. It's as if actually being tough is being tough.
Not to mention tau　unit is also major threat.
You mean crisis suits are a poor example because they need nerfing right now? Oddly people aren't taking blast weapons for them either.
Fwiw 20 nurgle marines according to the rumours can be -1 to hit and to wound with transhuman so hardly easy to shift, harder to gauge what threat they'd pose right now.
EightFoldPath wrote: Seems possible the Greater Possessed model will become the new Possessed model with that statline.
Also, I just want to make a moment to laugh out loud at the poster saying it would be ludicrous to have a 40 wound unit in the game. How many wounds does a unit of 6 Crisis Battlesuits and 12 Shield Drones have?
Oh, but it must be because they don't have psykers and can't buff the unit up. I too would feel sorry for any unit that can only receive 5+++ FNP, -1 to be hit, -2 to be charged, ignore all hit modifiers, re-roll all hits, re-roll all wounds, +1 to hit, +1 AP, +1 AP (not a typo), fall back and shoot, advance and shoot, gain obsec, advance 8", shoot and move, shoot and do actions.
And then you look at the tournament results and see what an absolute problem that setup is.
EightFoldPath wrote: Seems possible the Greater Possessed model will become the new Possessed model with that statline.
Also, I just want to make a moment to laugh out loud at the poster saying it would be ludicrous to have a 40 wound unit in the game. How many wounds does a unit of 6 Crisis Battlesuits and 12 Shield Drones have?
Oh, but it must be because they don't have psykers and can't buff the unit up. I too would feel sorry for any unit that can only receive 5+++ FNP, -1 to be hit, -2 to be charged, ignore all hit modifiers, re-roll all hits, re-roll all wounds, +1 to hit, +1 AP, +1 AP (not a typo), fall back and shoot, advance and shoot, gain obsec, advance 8", shoot and move, shoot and do actions.
And then you look at the tournament results and see what an absolute problem that setup is.
Anything that can have that many buffs is going to be a problem. Here's hoping that WOMBO COMBO is massively toned down for CSM. The only combo that should matter is what you get when you combine (X) unit + (Y) Mark.
EightFoldPath wrote: Seems possible the Greater Possessed model will become the new Possessed model with that statline.
Also, I just want to make a moment to laugh out loud at the poster saying it would be ludicrous to have a 40 wound unit in the game. How many wounds does a unit of 6 Crisis Battlesuits and 12 Shield Drones have?
Oh, but it must be because they don't have psykers and can't buff the unit up. I too would feel sorry for any unit that can only receive 5+++ FNP, -1 to be hit, -2 to be charged, ignore all hit modifiers, re-roll all hits, re-roll all wounds, +1 to hit, +1 AP, +1 AP (not a typo), fall back and shoot, advance and shoot, gain obsec, advance 8", shoot and move, shoot and do actions.
And then you look at the tournament results and see what an absolute problem that setup is.
Anything that can have that many buffs is going to be a problem. Here's hoping that WOMBO COMBO is massively toned down for CSM. The only combo that should matter is what you get when you combine (X) unit + (Y) Mark.
+ Z aura + A icon + B psychic power + C payers + D strat + E legion trait + F not-doctrine
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/23 17:30:44
EightFoldPath wrote: Seems possible the Greater Possessed model will become the new Possessed model with that statline.
Also, I just want to make a moment to laugh out loud at the poster saying it would be ludicrous to have a 40 wound unit in the game. How many wounds does a unit of 6 Crisis Battlesuits and 12 Shield Drones have?
Oh, but it must be because they don't have psykers and can't buff the unit up. I too would feel sorry for any unit that can only receive 5+++ FNP, -1 to be hit, -2 to be charged, ignore all hit modifiers, re-roll all hits, re-roll all wounds, +1 to hit, +1 AP, +1 AP (not a typo), fall back and shoot, advance and shoot, gain obsec, advance 8", shoot and move, shoot and do actions.
And then you look at the tournament results and see what an absolute problem that setup is.
Anything that can have that many buffs is going to be a problem. Here's hoping that WOMBO COMBO is massively toned down for CSM. The only combo that should matter is what you get when you combine (X) unit + (Y) Mark.
+ Z aura + A icon + B psychic power + C payers + D strat + E legion trait + F not-doctrine
Yes, probably, which is exactly what I'm afraid of.
And adding to that subject: MORE RUMOURS FOR THE RUMOUR GOD!!! Same source, same "It's a rumour" and "Early playtest rules" disclaimers:
All tanks are the same, and Land Raiders are "still bad ". (BOOOOO. HISSSS. BOOOOO.)
Possessed take up two spaces in transports. (New models on 40mm bases?)
Mark of Tzeentch ability "once per turn per unit".
Mark of Nurgle ability: -1 to wound only IF S=T or S/2>=T. ( Ok, can anyone translate "S/2>=T" ?)
EightFoldPath wrote: Seems possible the Greater Possessed model will become the new Possessed model with that statline.
Also, I just want to make a moment to laugh out loud at the poster saying it would be ludicrous to have a 40 wound unit in the game. How many wounds does a unit of 6 Crisis Battlesuits and 12 Shield Drones have?
Oh, but it must be because they don't have psykers and can't buff the unit up. I too would feel sorry for any unit that can only receive 5+++ FNP, -1 to be hit, -2 to be charged, ignore all hit modifiers, re-roll all hits, re-roll all wounds, +1 to hit, +1 AP, +1 AP (not a typo), fall back and shoot, advance and shoot, gain obsec, advance 8", shoot and move, shoot and do actions.
And then you look at the tournament results and see what an absolute problem that setup is.
Anything that can have that many buffs is going to be a problem. Here's hoping that WOMBO COMBO is massively toned down for CSM. The only combo that should matter is what you get when you combine (X) unit + (Y) Mark.
But making combos is also one of the things that makes playing the game fun ? I mean, I agree that when it's overpowered it becomes dismal for everyone involved but how units and rules interact with each-other is important. And from the leaks, looks like we'll have plenty of that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/23 17:44:27
Mark of Nurgle ability: -1 to wound only IF S=T or S/2>=T. ( Ok, can anyone translate "S/2>=T" ?)
As written? If the attack's strength divided by two is greater than or equal to the targets toughness.
So, a T4 model with the mark of nurgle is -1 to wound, if the strength of the attack is 4 OR 8 or greater. If they're T5 (like the possessed), then S5 or S10 or greater (maybe S9 if you round up).
Its.... really weird and fairly dumb.
Basically a nurgle marine is wounded:
S3 = 5+
S4 = 4+ but -1, so 5+ (because S=T)
S5-S7 = 3+
S8+ = 2+ but -1 so 3+ (because S/2 >= T)
So either 5+ or 3+, always. 5+ for S=T or less, 3+ for strength greater than toughness. I can kinda see what they were going for, but I have absolutely no idea what the fluff justification is. Its helpful against bolters, but also AT-rounds but not heavy machine guns or the lighter lasguns or autoguns.
Also, it seems such a clumsy idea, I'd say there's a greater than average chance that a game of telephone is happening and it isn't quite this stupid. On the other hand, I can see what the aim is (5+ or 3+) and clumsily written rules are GW's whole thing, so... yeah.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/03/23 18:04:34
Gadzilla666 wrote: Mark of Nurgle ability: -1 to wound only IF S=T or S/2>=T. ( Ok, can anyone translate "S/2>=T" ?)
Written like that it's nonsense. If you flip the arrow around you get "if half weapon strength is smaller or equal to target's toughness, you get to use the ability". Which I assume is what's meant, as double number or double number +1 is the kind of rule GW likes to use for discrimination.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Mark of Nurgle ability: -1 to wound only IF S=T or S/2>=T. ( Ok, can anyone translate "S/2>=T" ?)
As written? If the attack's strength divided by two is greater than or equal to the targets toughness.
So, a T4 model with the mark of nurgle is -1 to wound, if the strength of the attack is 4 OR 8 or greater. If they're T5 (like the possessed), then S5 or S10 or greater (maybe S9 if you round up).
Its.... really weird and fairly dumb.
Basically a nurgle marine is wounded:
S3 = 5+
S4 = 4+ but -1, so 5+ (because S=T)
S5-S7 = 3+
S8+ = 2+ but -1 so 3+ (because S/2 >= T)
So either 5+ or 3+, always. 5+ for S=T or less, 3+ for strength greater than toughness. I can kinda see what they were going for, but I have absolutely no idea what the fluff justification is. Its helpful against bolters, but also AT-rounds but not heavy machine guns or light lasguns or popguns.
Also, it seems such a clumsy idea, I'd say there's a greater than average chance that a game of telephone is happening and it isn't quite this stupid. On the other hand, I can see what the aim is (5+ or 3+) and clumsily written rules are GW's whole thing, so... yeah.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Clockworkchris just wrote it down wrong. Hopefully we'll get some clarification.
The funny thing is, I can see this aimed at addressing the idea that DG rules are supposed to represent their ability to shrug off small arms fire but don't.
So this does address S4 fire (but not 3), while still being really dumb about volcano cannons and crap. Its a weird half measure to fix a problem in another codex that doesn't really fix it (or even apply to the original problem, because its in another codex!)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/23 18:10:56
Voss wrote: The funny thing is, I can see this aimed at addressing the idea that DG rules are supposed to represent their ability to shrug off small arms fire but don't.
So this does address S4 fire (but not 3), while still being really dumb about volcano cannons and crap. Its a weird half measure to fix a problem in another codex that doesn't really fix it (or even apply to the original problem, because its in another codex!)
Hmmm. Maybe it's supposed to be S/2 = OR <T? So the cutoff for the ability working on a T4 model would be S9 or greater (assuming we're rounding up)? That would make some sense. Still odd that you could shrug off bigger guns, but not smaller.>
Automatically Appended Next Post:
clockworkchris9 wrote: The rule is if the attackers S is equal to or doubles (or more) the tougness you gain -1 to wound.
So any 4+ to wound or 2+ to wound get hit with a -1 to wound.
The mathematical equation just felt more natural to me since I work in STEM, and am lazy when it comes to typing on my phone.
Also he says that is is rounding up so s9 and s10 will get -1 to wound vs t5.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also thanks gadzilla for taking the time to share the info from B&C
No problem. And thank YOU for the clarification.
Edit: Ignore my theorizing above.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/23 18:21:26
Agreed. The Hellbrute one looks interesting, at least. But I'm not going to go adding a Hellbrute to my army just to use it.
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice 
