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Tau also has more than just the Railgun; Bor'kan has a strat the gives any single weapon Invul Ignore and there's also the unqiue Prototype Plasma Rifle any Sept can have

Some bits from Clockworkchris on B&C that I think we missed:

Regards lord loadouts

Just got confirmation, basic loadout is the blackstone fortress loadout (hammer, plasma pistol) but he has access to all melee weapons.

More disco lord info:

Oh and also disco lord now has 6a base

Yes its for every wound on that vehicules datasheet. Leaker said for example you cant double corrupt a knight to go fishing for 12 MW.
Also quick reminder that discolords are characters so they can get marks. Mark of khorne says hello.

Its in the command phase

Dudeface wrote:
Some bits from Clockworkchris on B&C that I think we missed:

Regards lord loadouts

Just got confirmation, basic loadout is the blackstone fortress loadout (hammer, plasma pistol) but he has access to all melee weapons.

*Looks at all my Chaos Lords armed with NOT Plasma Pistols*

Well, at least you aren't required to WYSIWYG mandatory equipment, I GUESS.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Some bits from Clockworkchris on B&C that I think we missed:

Regards lord loadouts

Just got confirmation, basic loadout is the blackstone fortress loadout (hammer, plasma pistol) but he has access to all melee weapons.

*Looks at all my Chaos Lords armed with NOT Plasma Pistols*

Well, at least you aren't required to WYSIWYG mandatory equipment, I GUESS.

I don't think I have a single chaos lord with a plasma pistol lol

I always considered them overpriced and always stuck to the bolt pistol, unless my Lord had twin claws.

Yay, just had 2 chaos lords invalidated

Is regression now applicable?

 Platuan4th wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Some bits from Clockworkchris on B&C that I think we missed:

Regards lord loadouts

Just got confirmation, basic loadout is the blackstone fortress loadout (hammer, plasma pistol) but he has access to all melee weapons.

*Looks at all my Chaos Lords armed with NOT Plasma Pistols*

Well, at least you aren't required to WYSIWYG mandatory equipment, I GUESS.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Yay, just had 2 chaos lords invalidated

Is regression now applicable?

 Rydria wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Some bits from Clockworkchris on B&C that I think we missed:

Regards lord loadouts

Just got confirmation, basic loadout is the blackstone fortress loadout (hammer, plasma pistol) but he has access to all melee weapons.

*Looks at all my Chaos Lords armed with NOT Plasma Pistols*

Well, at least you aren't required to WYSIWYG mandatory equipment, I GUESS.

I don't think I have a single chaos lord with a plasma pistol lol

I always considered them overpriced and always stuck to the bolt pistol, unless my Lord had twin claws.

B-but think of the new players!

 Platuan4th wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Some bits from Clockworkchris on B&C that I think we missed:

Regards lord loadouts

Just got confirmation, basic loadout is the blackstone fortress loadout (hammer, plasma pistol) but he has access to all melee weapons.

*Looks at all my Chaos Lords armed with NOT Plasma Pistols*

Well, at least you aren't required to WYSIWYG mandatory equipment, I GUESS.

Lol, the old 3rd Ed metal Chaos Lords I have are about to get a glow up. Never thought they'd make their way back to the tabletop (still might not but it'll be an interesting mini-project now I am a better painter and 20 years older!)

So a Latd Command squad / R&H command squad, except where once we had the option to make the demagogue into any of the options we got now, we get a squad of a priest a banner bearer and psyker.... everytime, that can't be more than 5?!? in a game where atm the average LoS ignoring firepower will just casually wipe that squad

Chaos lords that somehow chose to not use combiweapons anymore`, because shooting is for loyalists?

cursed weaponry as a catch all and lost heavy weapon slots on chosen.

Nothing about the "new traitorguard/ cultists" in regards to equipment options seemingly?

Just putting it out there that the rumor did not specifically say that the Lord cannot take any other guns.

Accursed cultists
-T4 1w
- 3-6 big models per unit
- 5-10 small models per unit

Vanilla cultists
- 10-20

IW stratagem
5+++ vs MW
--1 damage for core infantry & daemonkin.

NL stratagem
So i got clarification on the forst turn deepstrike strat
-units in deepstrike or strategic reserves count themselves as 1 turn earlier. 1cp fo infantry & bikers; 2cp for daemonkin

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Just putting it out there that the rumor did not specifically say that the Lord cannot take any other guns.

How many guns does the Chaos Lord kit cone with?

Not Online!!! wrote:
we got now, we get a squad of a priest a banner bearer and psyker

Sorry, I just couldn't help but think that this was the start of a joke....Oh wait.

Thank you Clockwork!

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Just putting it out there that the rumor did not specifically say that the Lord cannot take any other guns.

How many guns does the Chaos Lord kit cone with?

None, but then it doesn't come with any other melee weapons either. I'd wager either the plasma pistol is free now so no net loss beyond ripping a hand off, or you can still swap the pistol out for a bigger gun.

But yes, this is a regression now Not Online

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Just putting it out there that the rumor did not specifically say that the Lord cannot take any other guns.

How many guns does the Chaos Lord kit cone with?

It only comes with the pistol, but in the Death Guard, the vanilla Chaos Lord can take all weapons, with the exception of the hammer being replaced with the balesword. And that basically makes conversion a necey.

I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

clockworkchris9 wrote:Accursed cultists
-T4 1w
- 3-6 big models per unit
- 5-10 small models per unit

Vanilla cultists
- 10-20

IW stratagem
5+++ vs MW
--1 damage for core infantry & daemonkin.

NL stratagem
So i got clarification on the forst turn deepstrike strat
-units in deepstrike or strategic reserves count themselves as 1 turn earlier. 1cp fo infantry & bikers; 2cp for daemonkin

So it isn’t just for jump pack units? Interesting. Weird that it costs more for Daemonkin. That's oddly arbitrary.

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

LOL, HALF? Dark Eldar Archons would love to have half the options they once did.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

clockworkchris9 wrote:Accursed cultists

NL stratagem
So i got clarification on the forst turn deepstrike strat
-units in deepstrike or strategic reserves count themselves as 1 turn earlier. 1cp fo infantry & bikers; 2cp for daemonkin

So it isn’t just for jump pack units? Interesting. Weird that it costs more for Daemonkin. That's oddly arbitrary.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

Snugiraffe wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

clockworkchris9 wrote:Accursed cultists

NL stratagem
So i got clarification on the forst turn deepstrike strat
-units in deepstrike or strategic reserves count themselves as 1 turn earlier. 1cp fo infantry & bikers; 2cp for daemonkin

So it isn’t just for jump pack units? Interesting. Weird that it costs more for Daemonkin. That's oddly arbitrary.

Oblits are daemonkin, though. And if Warp Talons can tie down the enemy, deep striking them in straight away turn 1 (with a +1 to charge because Night Lords) seems really nasty.

Fair point. I'm definitely looking forward to using Warp Talons with that new ability.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

Dark Apostles already can't have jump packs. This change would specifically apply to Chaos Lords and Sorcerers, both of which have been able to have jump packs for over 20 years. I don't see how it would be a balance issue now. Especially given that many other factions have similar units with high mobility. I'd say that your former explanation makes more sense. At least "gw sense" anyways.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

Nice one !

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

What do you think people kitbash options with? It isn't older direct-only or oop sculpts. Allow a Dark Apostle to take Terminator armor and people will buy the character AND a terminator character/unit to do the conversion.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
What do you think people kitbash options with? It isn't older direct-only or oop sculpts. Allow a Dark Apostle to take Terminator armor and people will buy the character AND a terminator character/unit to do the conversion.

GW logic is not my logic. I do exactly the same with my conversions. A lot of the time it is because you don't really want to field two identical Dark Apostles, so you will need a second kit to bash onto a Dark Apostle, or a second model as the base with chaos bits put on the top. It is different for my Necrons though, as they are robots I am much more comfortable fielding three copies of the same exact thing (3 Plasmancers, 3 Skorpekh Lords, 3 Reanimators, 18 Skorpekhs are 6 x 3 sculpts, 40 Warriors are basically 4 x 10 of the same model, etc).

I do think this is the way GW wants us to do it, you buy their kits (from them at full price if they can get you to do it), build them exactly how they are meant to be built, paint them, play with them, post social media to give them free advertising, buy more... consume more...

Well yeah, GW is a company that exists to sell product. That is self evident.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

So why is it gameplay balance for Dark Apostles but not Chaplains, whom get Jump Pack access and a LOT more litanies to spew?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

So why is it gameplay balance for Dark Apostles but not Chaplains, whom get Jump Pack access and a LOT more litanies to spew?

So why is it gameplay balance for the Flying Librarian Dreadnought or Chaplain Dreadnoughts to exist?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

So why is it gameplay balance for Dark Apostles but not Chaplains, whom get Jump Pack access and a LOT more litanies to spew?

I think you missed the dripping sarcasm there, given the oblique reference to the Primaris Chaplain on Bike.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. It's in their best financial interests to have the best units be a recent kit to drive sales, having the best unit be a potentially OOP model or require kitbashing instead of buying a new stand-alone makes it harder to sell the new thing.

I've got the BSF models but I've also got three other Chaos Lords and I'll have to see which are legal now. I'm hoping jetpack lords don't go away.

 Rydria wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Some bits from Clockworkchris on B&C that I think we missed:

Regards lord loadouts

Just got confirmation, basic loadout is the blackstone fortress loadout (hammer, plasma pistol) but he has access to all melee weapons.

*Looks at all my Chaos Lords armed with NOT Plasma Pistols*

Well, at least you aren't required to WYSIWYG mandatory equipment, I GUESS.

I don't think I have a single chaos lord with a plasma pistol lol

I always considered them overpriced and always stuck to the bolt pistol, unless my Lord had twin claws.

The same as there's no good reason to upgrade their ranged weapon. That said if he can't take a bolt pistol they can't even take the codex EC relic Blissgiver. I mean its ass but still.