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Ah yes, the attitude of "I built my Lord the way GW wants so I don't care if there's no option for a Combi-Weapon". Not bring critical of the profile is defending it, whether you like it or not.
I don't know, twisting other people's opinions and sentiments into self reassurance of your own stance and an attack against them is a sign that your own attitude needs a look in. Not everything is black and white and both neutrality and subjective opinions are welcome as much as criticism.
Chaos Lords can be equipped with any melee weapon, but all melee weapons now share the Accursed Weapon profile lol
GW hates converting now I guess, can't make the game "inaccessible" for the guy who just decided to start playing last week and gets confused when they see a model that isnt monopose
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
Chaos Lords can be equipped with any melee weapon, but all melee weapons now share the Accursed Weapon profile lol
GW hates converting now I guess, can't make the game "inaccessible" for the guy who just decided to start playing last week and gets confused when they see a model that isnt monopose
It's more that they hate 3rd parties taking their pie.
Ah yes, the attitude of "I built my Lord the way GW wants so I don't care if there's no option for a Combi-Weapon". Not bring critical of the profile is defending it, whether you like it or not.
I don't know, twisting other people's opinions and sentiments into self reassurance of your own stance and an attack against them is a sign that your own attitude needs a look in. Not everything is black and white and both neutrality and subjective opinions are welcome as much as criticism.
What's there to be neutral for with these loadouts? Please do tell.
Ah yes, the attitude of "I built my Lord the way GW wants so I don't care if there's no option for a Combi-Weapon". Not bring critical of the profile is defending it, whether you like it or not.
I don't know, twisting other people's opinions and sentiments into self reassurance of your own stance and an attack against them is a sign that your own attitude needs a look in. Not everything is black and white and both neutrality and subjective opinions are welcome as much as criticism.
What's there to be neutral for with these loadouts? Please do tell.
Could be worse. At least the Chaos Lord is still in the book?
Ah yes, the attitude of "I built my Lord the way GW wants so I don't care if there's no option for a Combi-Weapon". Not bring critical of the profile is defending it, whether you like it or not.
I don't know, twisting other people's opinions and sentiments into self reassurance of your own stance and an attack against them is a sign that your own attitude needs a look in. Not everything is black and white and both neutrality and subjective opinions are welcome as much as criticism.
What's there to be neutral for with these loadouts? Please do tell.
Could be worse. At least the Chaos Lord is still in the book?
I know this might be a joke but I am obligated as a philosophy graduate to tell everyone "It could be worse" is a terrible way of thinking and completely fallacious logic.Everything could always be worse.
The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.
Oh it was definitely a joke, more poking fun at GW's continual pruning of Chaos Lord options for the last several editions. At this rate they'll just remove him in 10th.
3rd Parties will always get their piece of the pie, I don’t get why they try and stop it. Stop removing options and pissing off your player base is a better path forward imo. That coupled with good rules and you have yourself a winning combo. 3-d printing is what GW should be worried about. This situation is analogous to Blockbuster and Netflix as I see it.
ToW armies I own:
Empire: 10,000+
Chaos Legions: DoC- 10,000+; WoC- 7,500+; Beastmen- 2,500+; Chaos Dwarves- 3,500+
Unaligned: Ogres- 2,500; Tomb Kings- 3,000
Hotek: Dark Elves- 7,500+; High Elves- 2,500
40k armies I own:
CSM- 25,000+
nathan2004 wrote: 3rd Parties will always get their piece of the pie, I don’t get why they try and stop it. Stop removing options and pissing off your player base is a better path forward imo. That coupled with good rules and you have yourself a winning combo. 3-d printing is what GW should be worried about. This situation is analogous to Blockbuster and Netflix as I see it.
3d printing doesn't scale like a streaming service does. That said it goes right back to 3rd party substitutes. GW has shown they don't mind bits makers or people making their own versions of stuff (good ol' legally distinct models) but when it's a direct copy or too close to GW's design they get a bit fussy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/30 20:05:46
nathan2004 wrote: 3rd Parties will always get their piece of the pie, I don’t get why they try and stop it. Stop removing options and pissing off your player base is a better path forward imo. That coupled with good rules and you have yourself a winning combo. 3-d printing is what GW should be worried about. This situation is analogous to Blockbuster and Netflix as I see it.
3d printing doesn't scale like a streaming service does. That said it goes right back to 3rd party substitutes. GW has shown they don't mind bits makers or people making their own versions of stuff (good ol' legally distinct models) but when it's a direct copy or too close to GW's design they get a bit fussy.
Except you know banning non GW stuff from offical tournaments....
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
Instead of restricting options, GW should put out upgrade packs like they do fur loyalist Space Marines. In a local GW that I go to, right next to each was one upgrade pack for Dark Angels and then another for Primaris Dark Angels. I don't mind those existing, but it's ridiculous that we can't at least something for Chaos (beyond the out-of-date Night Lords and Noise Marines packs). For me personally, these rules don't hurt me that much, as two of my Chaos Lords/Exalted Champions are armed with flails (which I plan to use as anything I want depending on the battle), with one of them also having a plasma pistol, and my third one has dual lightning claws. That being said, I absolutely do not like this and dread what it might mean for the future.
This news also means that the Death Guard Chaos Lord is going to arguably be the most kitbash-friendly HQ for Chaos, if these rumors are true.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Instead of restricting options, GW should put out upgrade packs like they do fur loyalist Space Marines. In a local GW that I go to, right next to each was one upgrade pack for Dark Angels and then another for Primaris Dark Angels. I don't mind those existing, but it's ridiculous that we can't at least something for Chaos (beyond the out-of-date Night Lords and Noise Marines packs). For me personally, these rules don't hurt me that much, as two of my Chaos Lords/Exalted Champions are armed with flails (which I plan to use as anything I want depending on the battle), with one of them also having a plasma pistol, and my third one has dual lightning claws. That being said, I absolutely do not like this and dread what it might mean for the future.
This news also means that the Death Guard Chaos Lord is going to arguably be the most kitbash-friendly HQ for Chaos, if these rumors are true.
Yeah I'd buy those sprues like crazy if they had them, but Chaos just gets shafted actually tbf everyone but Marines get shafted when it comes to stuff like that
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
blood reaper wrote: I know this might be a joke but I am obligated as a philosophy graduate to tell everyone "It could be worse" is a terrible way of thinking and completely fallacious logic.Everything could always be worse.
As a science graduate, I'm obligated to obnoxiously one-up the philosophy graduate here and point out that the laws of thermodynamics dictate that everything inevitably will be worse.
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
Chaos Lords can be equipped with any melee weapon, but all melee weapons now share the Accursed Weapon profile lol
GW hates converting now I guess, can't make the game "inaccessible" for the guy who just decided to start playing last week and gets confused when they see a model that isnt monopose
Isn't that just wildly better for converters? Now you can use literally anything for your weapon and stay WYSIWYG, rather than being stuck using an Axe, Fist, Sword, or Hammer.
nathan2004 wrote: 3rd Parties will always get their piece of the pie, I don’t get why they try and stop it. Stop removing options and pissing off your player base is a better path forward imo. That coupled with good rules and you have yourself a winning combo. 3-d printing is what GW should be worried about. This situation is analogous to Blockbuster and Netflix as I see it.
3d printing doesn't scale like a streaming service does. That said it goes right back to 3rd party substitutes. GW has shown they don't mind bits makers or people making their own versions of stuff (good ol' legally distinct models) but when it's a direct copy or too close to GW's design they get a bit fussy.
Except you know banning non GW stuff from offical tournaments....
Yeah, how crazy is that? Imagine if other official events started doing something similar. You'd have to play Magic with actual Magic cards. What a world that would be.
Imagine if it spread all the way to esports. You'd have to play actual league of legends in official league of legends tournaments.
The horror.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/30 21:14:19
Ah yes, the attitude of "I built my Lord the way GW wants so I don't care if there's no option for a Combi-Weapon". Not bring critical of the profile is defending it, whether you like it or not.
I don't know, twisting other people's opinions and sentiments into self reassurance of your own stance and an attack against them is a sign that your own attitude needs a look in. Not everything is black and white and both neutrality and subjective opinions are welcome as much as criticism.
What's there to be neutral for with these loadouts? Please do tell.
"I don't care because it doesn't impact any if my models" which is pretty much what triggered you off in the first place.
I'm not sure when having a combi plasma on your lord has won you games for example, but in the grand scheme of things it likely won't make a difference to people's games as much as being a pita for their models.
Removing options is never good but not caring or being upset about it isn't the same as defending their removal.
If you want true neutrality, I'm sure some people out there either don't give 2 craps about csm or are players who don't use lords so it has no impact. They don't need to defend or be annoyed by it, which are the 2 options you seem to think everyone must conform to.
Memnoch wrote: This codex is starting to sound like more of a mess with every release of rumours and leaks.
Havent really been paying anything to the Tyranid and Aeldari rumours threads but were they as bleak as this one is?
I have an Eldar army and my good friend plays Tyranids. Both of our codexes turned out pretty well in my opinion and the rumor threads were mostly positive things coming out with a few curveballs. Lots of anger at the Autarch which GW backpedaled on. Other than that pretty positive. The salt here is pretty deserved since losing options on figures you've had built for ages is never pleasant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/30 21:27:40
Memnoch wrote: This codex is starting to sound like more of a mess with every release of rumours and leaks.
Havent really been paying anything to the Tyranid and Aeldari rumours threads but were they as bleak as this one is?
I have an Eldar army and my good friend plays Tyranids. Both of our codexes turned out pretty well in my opinion and the rumor threads were mostly positive things coming out with a few curveballs. Lots of anger at the Autarch which GW backpedaled on. Other than that pretty positive. The salt here is pretty deserved since losing options on figures you've had built for ages is never pleasant.
To be clear; GW said the kits were compatible before the release, so they didn't really backpedal from bad design choice,
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/30 21:39:26
The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.
nathan2004 wrote: 3rd Parties will always get their piece of the pie, I don’t get why they try and stop it. Stop removing options and pissing off your player base is a better path forward imo. That coupled with good rules and you have yourself a winning combo. 3-d printing is what GW should be worried about. This situation is analogous to Blockbuster and Netflix as I see it.
3d printing doesn't scale like a streaming service does. That said it goes right back to 3rd party substitutes. GW has shown they don't mind bits makers or people making their own versions of stuff (good ol' legally distinct models) but when it's a direct copy or too close to GW's design they get a bit fussy.
Except you know banning non GW stuff from offical tournaments....
Movie theaters ban outside food and drinks. Not really a shock GW would ban non-GW models at GW tournaments.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, do we know if the weapon restriction applies to the Terminator Lord as well? If not he might be the new utility lord option for people.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/30 23:08:37
Hooo-eeee the hyperbole is off the charts tonight.
On the one hand, when it comes to many HQ units, how often do you see something other than a bolt pistol/plasma pistol these days? I would ABSOLUTELY prefer MORE options than less. Combi-weapons were awesome for a cheap ranged-lord, which was in vogue especially around 7th and early 8th iirc (cheap re-rolls to hit of 1 after all), and things like hand-flamers or even a volkite pistol like we see the Primaris Lt get yet nobody else would have been neat to see.
Again, this all stems from GW not bothering to make a new Lord, or even letting us create a Chaos Lord out of the Chosen kit.
The frustrating thing about all of this is that Chaos Marines just can't get a break. They haven't had the codex that the fans want since 3.5. We really got spoiled back then and it's been nearly two decades of blandness and odd restrictions since then. Now, the restrictions are getting worse. Even if the models are getting better, it doesn't help if people can't play the army the way they want.
Night Lords are going to be a perfect example of this. MORE stuff that affects Combat Attrition tests... I literally have a Sisters of Battle army that uses Sacred Rose that just auto-passes all combat attrition tests. That sub-faction trumps the Chaos Marine subfaction every time. In those instances, you might as well not even play Night Lords, and that's what bites.
And yeah, I bet the Terminator Lord will be the go-to for Chaos Players. Actual options! Ways to take relics that make sense!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cataphract wrote: Would it be better to wait for the World Eaters Codex at this point?
What are the rumors for Terminators?
First page of the post has them, but essentially all Terminator weapon options aside from power fist and chain fist are becoming 'accursed weapons' that are pretty much power swords with an extra attack.
I'd honestly just wait and pray that 10th edition Chaos Marines does... something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/30 23:16:34
clockworkchris9 wrote: All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news
Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol
I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.
Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?
I assumed he was talking only about ranged options there and that the "but has access to all melee weapons" still applies, which is why I said I'm content. It lets me keep the builds I actually used. If its really a choice of bolt pistol or plasma pistol and I'm stuck with the hammer then I'm not content anymore - that would suck.
Thanks for the clarification. That's understandable, but I think you're missing my other point: Why is it "OK" to kitbash a bolt pistol, or any melee weapon, but not combi/special weapons and jump packs? It just seems strange, as it doesn't even conform to gw's aggravating "no model, no rules" mentality. And as Kan points out:
Kanluwen wrote:Accursed weapons are supposed to be an "anything goes", were they not?
Right, Accursed Weapons are an excuse to do "whatever you want". For example, I'll definitely be giving my Chosen some Nostromon Chainglaives if it's true. But why the bizarre inconsistency? I'm thinking that a lot of this weirdness comes from these being from early playtest rules. Hopefully it'll sort out in the final version. At least I hope so.
drbored wrote:Hooo-eeee the hyperbole is off the charts tonight.
On the one hand, when it comes to many HQ units, how often do you see something other than a bolt pistol/plasma pistol these days? I would ABSOLUTELY prefer MORE options than less. Combi-weapons were awesome for a cheap ranged-lord, which was in vogue especially around 7th and early 8th iirc (cheap re-rolls to hit of 1 after all), and things like hand-flamers or even a volkite pistol like we see the Primaris Lt get yet nobody else would have been neat to see.
Again, this all stems from GW not bothering to make a new Lord, or even letting us create a Chaos Lord out of the Chosen kit.
The frustrating thing about all of this is that Chaos Marines just can't get a break. They haven't had the codex that the fans want since 3.5. We really got spoiled back then and it's been nearly two decades of blandness and odd restrictions since then. Now, the restrictions are getting worse. Even if the models are getting better, it doesn't help if people can't play the army the way they want.
Night Lords are going to be a perfect example of this. MORE stuff that affects Combat Attrition tests... I literally have a Sisters of Battle army that uses Sacred Rose that just auto-passes all combat attrition tests. That sub-faction trumps the Chaos Marine subfaction every time. In those instances, you might as well not even play Night Lords, and that's what bites.
That's where the custom traits come in. That "Unmarked" custom trait seems like the closest thing to 3.5 era Night Lords to me. If I don't see anything better, that's what I'll be using.
Just my humble opinion, but I think GW should make a "character equipment" upgrade clampack for every army that has random doodads they couldn't squeeze into the box set. Have Astra Militarum? You get a bolt pistol, plasma pistol, power sword, chain sword, bolter, power fist, and a multi-part piece that can be a storm bolter or any combi weapon. Viola', there is now a model you can sell a TON of, players have tons of options, and the game isn't stale.
clockworkchris9 wrote: All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news
Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol
I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.
Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?
I assumed he was talking only about ranged options there and that the "but has access to all melee weapons" still applies, which is why I said I'm content. It lets me keep the builds I actually used. If its really a choice of bolt pistol or plasma pistol and I'm stuck with the hammer then I'm not content anymore - that would suck.
Thanks for the clarification. That's understandable, but I think you're missing my other point: Why is it "OK" to kitbash a bolt pistol, or any melee weapon, but not combi/special weapons and jump packs? It just seems strange, as it doesn't even conform to gw's aggravating "no model, no rules" mentality. And as Kan points out:
No idea, Im just glad I don't need to shelve/bin a bunch of my minis that would no longer be wysiwyg otherwise, and thats basically all what my position here boils down to.
Everything else is way beyond my paygrsde. Apparentlyy that makes me a white knight for GW or something, even though the reality is Im really sitting here hoping these rumors aren't true and they aren't going to shaft CSM yet again for another vedition.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice 
