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One of the first Chaos Lord models I got was this guy:

(not my mini)

Sucks he's completely illegal I guess...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
One of the first Chaos Lord models I got was this guy:

(not my mini)

Sucks he's completely illegal I guess...

Maybe they'll keep the extra options in Legends for people who don't play GT missions. Not much of a hope, but it'd be nice if those old options didn't go away completely.

No, it isn't much hope. Especially considering the sheer arbitrary nature of these loadout limitations. Here's a link to the "official" Chaos Lord kit:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Space-Marines-Chaos-Lord-2019

Look at the sprue. The plasma pistol and thunder hammer are both molded to the arms. Arming that model with a bolt pistol, or "other melee weapons" would require either cutting off the standard weapons or kitbashing with another kit. There is absolutely no reason to remove any of the current options and still keep the options for a bolt pistol and other melee weapons. It would have nothing to do with either "no model, no rules" or WYSIWYG.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Removing options is never good but not caring or being upset about it isn't the same as defending their removal.

"Don't care. Got mine." is a hair's breadth away from defending the removal.

Indifference is defending, full stop

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
No, it isn't much hope. Especially considering the sheer arbitrary nature of these loadout limitations. Here's a link to the "official" Chaos Lord kit:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Space-Marines-Chaos-Lord-2019

Look at the sprue. The plasma pistol and thunder hammer are both molded to the arms. Arming that model with a bolt pistol, or "other melee weapons" would require either cutting off the standard weapons or kitbashing with another kit. There is absolutely no reason to remove any of the current options and still keep the options for a bolt pistol and other melee weapons. It would have nothing to do with either "no model, no rules" or WYSIWYG.

Legends has been the home of a fair bit of "no longer available" model options.

That said, I've been thinking about double dipping between HH and CSM with Word Bearers (I must admit they look their best in MkIV, though I'm curious to see what beakie Word Bearers look like) but that hampers some of the creative fun you could have between the two.

At least Erebus makes for a sweet Dark Apostle model?

Legends is a cop out.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
No, it isn't much hope. Especially considering the sheer arbitrary nature of these loadout limitations. Here's a link to the "official" Chaos Lord kit:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Space-Marines-Chaos-Lord-2019

Look at the sprue. The plasma pistol and thunder hammer are both molded to the arms. Arming that model with a bolt pistol, or "other melee weapons" would require either cutting off the standard weapons or kitbashing with another kit. There is absolutely no reason to remove any of the current options and still keep the options for a bolt pistol and other melee weapons. It would have nothing to do with either "no model, no rules" or WYSIWYG.

Legends has been the home of a fair bit of "no longer available" model options.

That said, I've been thinking about double dipping between HH and CSM with Word Bearers (I must admit they look their best in MkIV, though I'm curious to see what beakie Word Bearers look like) but that hampers some of the creative fun you could have between the two.

At least Erebus makes for a sweet Dark Apostle model?

You're missing my point. There is absolutely no logical reason for these particular options. It doesn't conform to either "no model, no rules" or WYSIWYG. It's entirely arbitrary. And I'm wondering if it's because these rumours are coming from EARLY PLAYTEST RULES , as I keep trying to remind everyone. Maybe they hadn't figured out exactly how they wanted to handle Chaos Lords and Sorcerers yet (separate datasheets for PA, PA+jump pack, and Terminator armour?). But if this does happen, we shouldn't just accept it and use Legends rules or play HH. We should do exactly what the Eldar players did when gw screwed up the options for the Autarch: complain. Loudly and in great numbers. If they can fix Autarchs, then they can fix Chaos Lords and Sorcerers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Legends is a cop out.

Exactly. We don't have to just accept this. Eldar players didn't. Neither should we.

H.B.M.C., I completely forgot about that guy! I still have my version with the axe.

I really hope this was just an error forgetting to mention the ranged option in the leak or w/e (at this point I'm not holding out hope that these are wrong, they're too believable). Obsidius Mallex (sp?) is just a terrible model to have as the only lord. Besides his stupid name, he's just not a well-sculpted character (the tubes make him look like he's got a double chin), and his loadout and look really don't fit a lot of the legions...

Btw did GW actually update Legends when they reduced options in new Codizes or is it still the same it was at the beginning of 9th?
For me personally there's no difference between a unit in legends or in the Codex, but I don't know if I can trust GW to keep legends updated...

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Not having to pay for mark of slaanesh, as emperor’s children is super nice.

Indeed. With Noise Marines being "GOOD" and Excruciating Frequencies going to MW, along with Honor the Prince remaining in some fashion we'll be doing alright for Chaos at least.

I can't wait to see the rules for Noise Marines i wonder if they kept music of the apocalypse, or have been changed.

Honor the prince remaining the same, is amazing for us makes the theoretical Terminator squad with 3 power fist. 1 chain fist, duel accursed weapon per 5 a great bomb, or if you want to go cheaper a squad of Warptalons

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Removing options is never good but not caring or being upset about it isn't the same as defending their removal.

"Don't care. Got mine." is a hair's breadth away from defending the removal.

Indifference is defending, full stop

People who don't agree with your views because they don't have a stake in the outcome are automatically the enemy? Indifference is often the result of people being in no way obligated to invest time or attention in a topic.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Removing options is never good but not caring or being upset about it isn't the same as defending their removal.

"Don't care. Got mine." is a hair's breadth away from defending the removal.

Indifference is defending, full stop

People who don't agree with your views because they don't have a stake in the outcome are automatically the enemy? Indifference is often the result of people being in no way obligated to invest time or attention in a topic.

And yet they are interested enough to come into this thread and go "Ha! I don't care, I've got mine, suckers! "

Yeah, at this point this weird side-argument is really just a cringey slap-fest, let's move on.

Here's a Chaos Lord that's much more recent that is now illegal:



LOTS of people got this Chaos Lord. Plastic, power sword, plasma pistol, neat stuff. Now? Well, I guess you can put him in your Chosen squad or something...

Uhhh......the Kranon model is a legal loadout according to the rumours. Plasma Pistol, check. "Any melee weapon" check.

I wonder more and more about the validity of the rumours. Some things are already contradictory, like disco lord who was said to have no changes in first rumour drop. Also it is just weird that we see immense power creep in new books and suddenly CSM have a balancing that matches early 9th Ed instead of that ,lategame madness‘ that we have in current releases.

But to be fair, it might be denial as well

Edit: A merged weapon option for different sculpts sounds actually reasonable. Rolling a squad with 5 different options takes forever and might often end up not worth it. Will reduce the ,let me check which guys are in range and let me search all that weapon options. I guess most people dislike the profile. As for the Lord, it seems fine that he has an united profile for the meele weapon. This cleans up the mess of deamonic weapon upgrades. I mostly dislike the fact that the rumour mentioned that weapon profiles are already a mess

I just hope that the overall book balance isn’t smurfed on release. It is already a mess to play Primaris and Necrons as many newer books just table you on a casual basis. I would consider dropping the hobby when the newest army I build would be messed up in terms of balance on release

It could be they balanced the CSM codex against the early 9e codex (specifically Marines) because they planned on it releasing earlier but that plan was delayed due to some behind the scenes reason.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
It could be they balanced the CSM codex against the early 9e codex (specifically Marines) because they planned on it releasing earlier but that plan was delayed due to some behind the scenes reason.

Yeah but according to rumours the book seems to be in playtesting now?

if the book is in playtesting now, it would be >6 months away

more like the rumours are from different play test version and it is unclear which one made it to print

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Removing options is never good but not caring or being upset about it isn't the same as defending their removal.

"Don't care. Got mine." is a hair's breadth away from defending the removal.

Indifference is defending, full stop

People who don't agree with your views because they don't have a stake in the outcome are automatically the enemy? Indifference is often the result of people being in no way obligated to invest time or attention in a topic.

Yes, actually. They had enough to chime in "don't care because MY model is safe" and literally disregard the consequences of not calling out GW on its actions.

So I repeat, what is the actual middle ground for this Chaos Lord entry?

 kodos wrote:
if the book is in playtesting now, it would be >6 months away

more like the rumours are from different play test version and it is unclear which one made it to print

Or that these particular playtest rules are from an old set of playtest rules, which the leaker has said themself. A lot could have changed since these were last playtested.

This guy is clearly a parody account.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Removing options is never good but not caring or being upset about it isn't the same as defending their removal.

"Don't care. Got mine." is a hair's breadth away from defending the removal.

Indifference is defending, full stop

People who don't agree with your views because they don't have a stake in the outcome are automatically the enemy? Indifference is often the result of people being in no way obligated to invest time or attention in a topic.

Yes, actually. They had enough to chime in "don't care because MY model is safe" and literally disregard the consequences of not calling out GW on its actions.

So I repeat, what is the actual middle ground for this Chaos Lord entry?

I run the 3rd ed metal powerfist lord at the top of this page, with a jump pack, combi melta and the fist is replaced with a power sword. He is not legal for me any more. This is not overly good for some others. I am not upset that I need to change his loadout, I am not offended and feel no obligation to "call out GW". How do I fit into your views?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Why is it "OK" to kitbash a bolt pistol, or any melee weapon, but not combi/special weapons and jump packs? It just seems strange, as it doesn't even conform to gw's aggravating "no model, no rules" mentality.

The rumours did say there was still a jump pack relic (I think it matches the one that turned up in Vigilus Ablaze?). As a relic, it's pretty meh, but it IS a jump pack for you to slap onto a Lord.

Snugiraffe wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Why is it "OK" to kitbash a bolt pistol, or any melee weapon, but not combi/special weapons and jump packs? It just seems strange, as it doesn't even conform to gw's aggravating "no model, no rules" mentality.

The rumours did say there was still a jump pack relic (I think it matches the one that turned up in Vigilus Ablaze?). As a relic, it's pretty meh, but it IS a jump pack for you to slap onto a Lord.

unless of course the stipulations dictate, (what they will) that a specific piece of equipment is needed to do so .

Remember Dp comes with wings and could take it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Legends is a cop out.

It's worse than a cop-out, because it allows some players to just tell you that everything is fine and if you don't like it go play count as, whilest others will abuse certain combinations and or price point of these never adapted units anymore.
Simply put, due to the no touch up and horrific design it is highly unlikely that anyone will be able to play them in about half an edition something enters legends.

Its also really low how some factions got a lot of "no modells no rules" not applied to them, whilest other factions got completely curbed into legends.

Meanwhile CSM players lost literally ALL daemonic mounts, biker lords, etc.

From the further lord change alone i lost: 4 Chaos lords if it is indeed the case that we don't get combi weapons for them anymore.

Snugiraffe wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Why is it "OK" to kitbash a bolt pistol, or any melee weapon, but not combi/special weapons and jump packs? It just seems strange, as it doesn't even conform to gw's aggravating "no model, no rules" mentality.

The rumours did say there was still a jump pack relic (I think it matches the one that turned up in Vigilus Ablaze?). As a relic, it's pretty meh, but it IS a jump pack for you to slap onto a Lord.

The rumours say that it's only available to a Daemon Prince.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Removing options is never good but not caring or being upset about it isn't the same as defending their removal.

"Don't care. Got mine." is a hair's breadth away from defending the removal.

Indifference is defending, full stop

That's not how language works. Indifference is passive, and defending is active.

Go away, troll.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Removing options is never good but not caring or being upset about it isn't the same as defending their removal.

"Don't care. Got mine." is a hair's breadth away from defending the removal.

Indifference is defending, full stop

That's not how language works. Indifference is passive, and defending is active.

Go away, troll.

It's not passive to specifically go out of your way to go into a thread about something and announce just how much you don't care to everyone and how indifferent you are, and how much it doesn't affect you.

It's like people don't understand why the concept of "Don't care. Got mine!" is so repugnant...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Legends is a cop out.

I never said it wasn't. I just said if this is true (and we haven't seen actual codex page leaks like past codex rumor dumps so who knows) I'd hope they at least keep the option in legends for the more casual players.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's like people don't understand why the concept of "Don't care. Got mine!" is so repugnant...

It's like people don't understand that expecting everyone to have an opinion about everything, either positive or negative, is so vile...