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Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:
Wish I could read that section on 'World Eaters Units' that will make or break my interest right there.

Sorry being cynical but this:

You might recognise some of these rules from War Zone Charadon Act II: The Book of Fire

Killed mine, it says it's a lazy copy paste of what's there now with some small tweaks for keywords. the changes to the zerkers is really the only big thing at that point.

Well, it is a stop-gap for the new codex until codex WE comes out. So a lazy copy-paste doesn't bother me that much.
For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

I definitely want a flamer squad of some kind. It feels right.

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:
Wish I could read that section on 'World Eaters Units' that will make or break my interest right there.

Sorry being cynical but this:

You might recognise some of these rules from War Zone Charadon Act II: The Book of Fire

Killed mine, it says it's a lazy copy paste of what's there now with some small tweaks for keywords. the changes to the zerkers is really the only big thing at that point.

Well, it is a stop-gap for the new codex until codex WE comes out. So a lazy copy-paste doesn't bother me that much.
For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

I think you won't be able to tell for certain which are removed if it is a stop gap. It's as likely to change for a codex as the legion rule is.

Dudeface wrote:

I think you won't be able to tell for certain which are removed if it is a stop gap. It's as likely to change for a codex as the legion rule is.

True. They could keep them for now and then lose them.
But if they lose them now, they aren't getting back and I no longer have to care or pay attention to the dribs and drabs of information.

(I've got plans for the HH models, and if a dual 30k/40k force isn't viable for a legion, I'm scratching it from consideration).

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

I think you won't be able to tell for certain which are removed if it is a stop gap. It's as likely to change for a codex as the legion rule is.

True. They could keep them for now and then lose them.
But if they lose them, now they aren't getting back and I no longer have to care or pay attention to the dribs and drabs of information.

(I've got plans for the HH models, and if a dual 30k/40k force isn't viable for a legion, I'm scratching it from consideration).

I'm in a similar boat, I can't quite tandem HH into red corsairs so it'd need to be some other legion I can double up with and other was going to be world eaters initially.

 oni wrote:
Hahaha. The small text has been intentionally blurred in the WD page previews. I cannot help but to laugh.

That's hilarious what, are customers going to not buy a WD because they read two pages?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 oni wrote:
Hahaha. The small text has been intentionally blurred in the WD page previews. I cannot help but to laugh.

That's hilarious what, are customers going to not buy a WD because they read two pages?

Not a vote of confidence i reckon for the index list.

I like how the asterisk at the bottom "* They may take skulls for Khorne, but they’re not fans of losing their own heads." doesn't seem to match up with any text in the article.

Anyway, this might end up the first White Dwarf I've bought in about 16 years. And I used to collect the things - I still have my complete 15+ year run from WD 99 to the mid 2000's.

Ok_Entrepreneur3004 on Reddit wrote:
·
Can't wait to spend 2cp to make some red butchers

So Red Butchers are a thing still.

Voss wrote:

For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

Yet everyone pines for the 3.5 edition codex where Mark of Khorne prevented power armor marines from taking special and heavy weapons.

Santtu wrote:

Voss wrote:

For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

Yet everyone pines for the 3.5 edition codex where Mark of Khorne prevented power armor marines from taking special and heavy weapons.

You're replying to the wrong person for that. I think 3.5 is pure nostalgia goggles, I'd rather go back to RoC for fluff cues.
So 'everyone' can wander off to the graveyard of pointless rhetoricals.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:
Wish I could read that section on 'World Eaters Units' that will make or break my interest right there.

Sorry being cynical but this:

You might recognise some of these rules from War Zone Charadon Act II: The Book of Fire

Killed mine, it says it's a lazy copy paste of what's there now with some small tweaks for keywords. the changes to the zerkers is really the only big thing at that point.

Well, it is a stop-gap for the new codex until codex WE comes out. So a lazy copy-paste doesn't bother me that much.
For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

I definitely want a flamer squad of some kind. It feels right.

Khorne did have most of the daemon engines. As a stand alone book there's definitely potential for the Cannon of Khorne, Doomblasters, Bloodreapers and the Cauldron of Blood, perhaps even a plastic Brass Scorpion and alternative builds for the Lord of Skulls like the Deathdealer (the LoS is a mix of this and the Lord of Battle, but a transport/gunnery version rather than the tanks could work).
I could also see both more martial cultists/traitor guard or more fanatical ones that are the guys dedicated to getting the World Eaters berserkers from one slaughter to the next.

Santtu wrote:

Voss wrote:

For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

Yet everyone pines for the 3.5 edition codex where Mark of Khorne prevented power armor marines from taking special and heavy weapons.

That confuses me because Teeth of Khorne was a cool concept that got buried for no reason.

I may be wrong here, but my take on this 'temp world eater codex' is that it will simply be the new chaos codex, but with the new traits, warlord options etc and the berserkers.

Everything that can have mark of khorne or similar will be available from the codex.

I don't think this will be anything like the real World eater codex, bar maybe the legion trait, relics and warlord traits. And even those I wouldn't be sure will not change.

Basically unit wise I don't expect the real codex to have same units as what people can take in this temp codex.

Some will be new and some will be gone. I wouldn't necessarily take the temp codex as much of a guide for unit selection.

Santtu wrote:

Voss wrote:

For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

Yet everyone pines for the 3.5 edition codex where Mark of Khorne prevented power armor marines from taking special and heavy weapons.

No it didn't?

DG/Mark of Nurgle was really restrictive with Heavy weapons, but MoK was just unable to be applied to Havocs (and Raptors but that applied to all the marks bar Undivided). You could take special and heavy weapons in MoK squads otherwise though.

Voss wrote:

Santtu wrote:

Voss wrote:

For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

Yet everyone pines for the 3.5 edition codex where Mark of Khorne prevented power armor marines from taking special and heavy weapons.

You're replying to the wrong person for that. I think 3.5 is pure nostalgia goggles, I'd rather go back to RoC for fluff cues.
So 'everyone' can wander off to the graveyard of pointless rhetoricals.

Little fuzzy, but pretty sure that only meant you could not take Havocs.

But Berzerkers could disembark from a Rhino, move, advance instead of shooting, then charge. Up through 5th edition, Rhino Rushes were anything but pointless or rhetorical.

 Bosskelot wrote:

Santtu wrote:

Voss wrote:

For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

Yet everyone pines for the 3.5 edition codex where Mark of Khorne prevented power armor marines from taking special and heavy weapons.

No it didn't?

DG/Mark of Nurgle was really restrictive with Heavy weapons, but MoK was just unable to be applied to Havocs (and Raptors but that applied to all the marks bar Undivided). You could take special and heavy weapons in MoK squads otherwise though.

Page 47, under "Weaponry of the Followers of Khorne".

Santtu wrote:

Voss wrote:

For me its if it makes it clear that they're going to lose access to ranged (or other) units. Or not.
Because if its just axes all the time, I don't want Codex Flanderization.

Yet everyone pines for the 3.5 edition codex where Mark of Khorne prevented power armor marines from taking special and heavy weapons.

While you couldn't RAW play a 'true' World Eaters army (since every unit had to have a Mark of Khorne) - there was nothing stopping you from taking units of Havocs in an army where everything else had Mark of Khorne and painting them as World Eaters. The only actual benefit to bringing a RAW World Eaters army is free unit champions and bonuses to summoning Daemons iirc.

I thought "all world eaters are berserkers though not all berserkers are world eaters" was still canon? After Skalathrax and Kharn's betrayal

 Tastyfish wrote:
I thought "all world eaters are berserkers though not all berserkers are world eaters" was still canon? After Skalathrax and Kharn's betrayal

It hasn't specifically been retconned, but it's not explicitly stated anywhere in current publications.

Personally, I've been playing WE for 20+ years, and I've always interpreted the whole 'all WE are Berzerkers' thing as not necessarily referring to the unit 'Khorne Berzerkers' but rather a style of combat. WE Havocs (once we could start taking them again, of course) are just Berzerkers whose Nails are sated by the thudding of heavy weaponry; WE Bikers are just Berzerkers on bikes, that sort of thing. The unit 'Khorne Berzerkers' was just the most exemplary of that combat style. Otherwise, you literally couldn't take a full WE army, since you always had to have an HQ of some sort.

The Black Legion book series features a fully nailed-up Bezerker who is the leader of a heavy weapon squad of Devestator and then later becomes a proper officer in the legion. He is able to retain enough control over himself to strategise, dictate commands, and restrain himself from simply running into battle.

World Eater, like a lot of things in 40k, have become so stupidly flanderised that it limits the design space.

There is nothing about Khorne that should limit the effective use of ranged weaponry.

 Crimson wrote:
World Eater, like a lot of things in 40k, have becomes so stupidly flanderised that it limits the design space.

There is nothing about Khorne that should limit the effective use of ranged weaponry.

Martial prowess appeals to Khorne, marksmanship and good kill rate with a weapon are all smiled upon in theory.

"Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows."

Bolter rounds make the blood flow just as well as chainswords.

 blood reaper wrote:
The Black Legion book series features a fully nailed-up Bezerker who is the leader of a heavy weapon squad of Devestator and then later becomes a proper officer in the legion. He is able to retain enough control over himself to strategise, dictate commands, and restrain himself from simply running into battle.

The Bile trilogy has a fully nailed up World Eaters Apothecary who talks to the skulls of his dead legion brothers, but he keeps himself on a cocktail of drugs so he stays levelheaded and not falling to the nails.

Dudeface wrote:
Martial prowess appeals to Khorne, marksmanship and good kill rate with a weapon are all smiled upon in theory.

When we were doing the various "Tome" books for Black Crusade, I wrote up a Khorne-dedicated sniper called a Bloodsworn Assassin. Had a whole backstory of a temple where they go to train that you can't find, it finds you. Crazy stuff like that.

Sadly wasn't enough room in the final book to include it, but he still has the quote at the start of the armoury chapter:

"Target sighted. Three hundred metres. Khorne guide my shot. Blood for the Blood God."

That is btw spot on the issue with GW and Khorne. They got stuck in this ,Khorne followers are dumb barbarians who smash everything with an Axe’ mentality for 40k and AoS.

Meanwhile there is so much unused potential for rewriting Khorne to a mich deeper, much more satisfying faction. Having more aspects that satisfy Khorne rather than just simple meele murder would already give it a lot of cool flair as others mentioned already. Also viewing the Nails as Curse/Blessing could provide a fresh take. Making Khorne some sort of hunter god, driven by the desire to find his prey and kill it, would also add up a load of possible new depth. Shedding more light on the context of Khorne hating psykers is another pathway to go.

I have really the hope that the upcoming rework of the WE will also give more depth to Khorne.

And what is 'hope' the first step on the road to... ?

In Realms of Chaos, Khorne dudes weren't even allowed to kill non-combatants.

 Tastyfish wrote:
I thought "all world eaters are berserkers though not all berserkers are world eaters" was still canon? After Skalathrax and Kharn's betrayal

This is my current understanding as well, with the caveat that any khornate berserker marine has the potential to become a World Eater - see Zhufor the Impaler, Butcher of Vraks, lord of the Skulltakers warband of the World Eaters... who was previously known as Balzach, Sergeant of the Storm Lords Chapter of Space Marines until he was severely wounded, captured, tortured, drugged, mutilated, and brainwashed by the World Eaters until he himself became a World Eaters Khornate berserker who then ascended through the ranks until he took the lead of the warband.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
That is btw spot on the issue with GW and Khorne. They got stuck in this ,Khorne followers are dumb barbarians who smash everything with an Axe’ mentality for 40k and AoS.

Meanwhile there is so much unused potential for rewriting Khorne to a mich deeper, much more satisfying faction. Having more aspects that satisfy Khorne rather than just simple meele murder would already give it a lot of cool flair as others mentioned already. Also viewing the Nails as Curse/Blessing could provide a fresh take. Making Khorne some sort of hunter god, driven by the desire to find his prey and kill it, would also add up a load of possible new depth. Shedding more light on the context of Khorne hating psykers is another pathway to go.

I have really the hope that the upcoming rework of the WE will also give more depth to Khorne.

Yep, the WE book is a good opportunity for GW to correct this misconception/perception issue...

...but they won't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
In Realms of Chaos, Khorne dudes weren't even allowed to kill non-combatants.

Also yep, in older fluff there was something about Khorne viewing the slaughter of civilians as being dishonorable...

...but I think that boat sailed when "Khorne cares not from where blood flows, so long as it flows".

this changed with instead of Chaos being Chaos , Chaos being Evil for 40k

it was still true in Warhammer Fantasy to a point
hence in WHFB Khorne > Khaine, as it was just the brutal aspect of all fighting that was Khorne

while in 40k it is the other way around