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2022/07/19 17:03:19
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
2022/07/19 18:06:34
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
2022/07/19 18:10:41
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
You said, and I quote:
"What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone"
So where does that apply to the unit I legit ran as a blob clearer?
2022/07/19 18:21:10
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
ArcaneHorror wrote: Why would they deliberately leave it out though? Marine chainswords have had ap for I think two years now.
No, you're almost certainly right, I was just trying to be clever. It was most likely an error. I don't foresee them bothering to ever correct it, though. And at that point, the origin of the mistake is largely irrelevant.
2022/07/19 18:22:34
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
You said, and I quote:
"What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone"
So where does that apply to the unit I legit ran as a blob clearer?
It doesn't very obviously. What is your emotional attachment to that unit? There are 3 options:
1. I used it for X and that purpose is taken away
2. I lovingly converted/painted that unit
3. I'm competitive and it was an optimal build
You ruled out 3 and indicated at 1. So I'd advise that models rules change pretty often between editions and just because it's not the go-to horde clearer for you any more, it doesn't make them useless.
As I said to Gert, you have the advantage of all having the same loadout, use them as a unit of stock termies with max combi-flamers, nobody will complain. That way if they're lovingly converted (love to see them if so), at least they can be used.
From a game balance perspective, having 3w t4 2+/5++ units drop in from reserve with 10d6+20 flamer hits + 20 bolter rounds, might be a bit much to balance against as its entirely uninteractive for your opponent when they turn up.
2022/07/19 18:45:18
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
From a game balance perspective, having 3w t4 2+/5++ units drop in from reserve with 10d6+20 flamer hits + 20 bolter rounds, might be a bit much to balance against as its entirely uninteractive for your opponent when they turn up.
If it's such a balance problem why can Space Wolves still do it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/19 18:45:38
2022/07/19 18:54:20
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
From a game balance perspective, having 3w t4 2+/5++ units drop in from reserve with 10d6+20 flamer hits + 20 bolter rounds, might be a bit much to balance against as its entirely uninteractive for your opponent when they turn up.
If it's such a balance problem why can Space Wolves still do it?
They don't get the free 20 hits and it's been 2 years, evidently the design paradigm has shifted and if we're being frank, the poster boys get different treatment. I fully expect they'll lose the option on the next pass.
2022/07/19 19:41:16
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
New Chaos Legends PDF with all the actual options they left out of the codex for no reason.
... Did they really f cking remove the Sonic Dread option ?
Oh man, I missed that. You've gotta be kidding me. I was all pissed about losing my Mutilators when I really should've been thinking about my Sonic Dreads. GW SUCKS GW SUCKS GW SUCKS GW SUCKS REEEEE
2022/07/19 21:27:40
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
New Chaos Legends PDF with all the actual options they left out of the codex for no reason.
... Did they really f cking remove the Sonic Dread option ?
Sonic Dread is in the Forge World PDF like it always has been(pg. 77).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/19 21:28:58
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Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
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2022/07/19 21:38:45
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
I'm hoping that maybe the palanquin, jump and bike lords could be available to the Death Guard at some point, and the juggernaut lord to the World Eaters when that codex arrives.
2022/07/19 22:59:38
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
ArcaneHorror wrote: The lack of ap on the chainsword is odd, though, and has to be an oversight.
That is a level of optimism I simply do not possess. I am genuinely envious.
Why would they deliberately leave it out though? Marine chainswords have had ap for I think two years now.
Lazy legends update is accidentally ok in this regard - the copy paste of the old datasheet includes old no AP chainsword as default wargear, but they can all be swapped for items from the melee list which includes modern astartes chainswords with AP (which you then lose again to AOC).
Anyone want to enlighten me on what the point is on the Terminator Lord update? He already has access to all melee weapons plus either a gun or lightning claw in the off hand, "upgrading" to any melee weapon in the offhand is either way worse or super gamey (double chainfist + slaanesh daemon weapon), legends being gamey just makes you feel bad for actually using it IMO.
2022/07/19 23:24:20
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
From a game balance perspective, having 3w t4 2+/5++ units drop in from reserve with 10d6+20 flamer hits + 20 bolter rounds, might be a bit much to balance against as its entirely uninteractive for your opponent when they turn up.
If it's such a balance problem why can Space Wolves still do it?
They don't get the free 20 hits and it's been 2 years, evidently the design paradigm has shifted and if we're being frank, the poster boys get different treatment. I fully expect they'll lose the option on the next pass.
The weapon restrictions on Terminators have nothing to do with S4 AP0 combi-flamers. They're because "that's what's in the kit". If they were worried about that, don't you think those Rubrics with their S4 AP-2 (possibly AP-3 depending on how they decide their Icon works) flamers would raise some eyebrows?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/20 00:53:19
2022/07/20 05:40:45
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
From a game balance perspective, having 3w t4 2+/5++ units drop in from reserve with 10d6+20 flamer hits + 20 bolter rounds, might be a bit much to balance against as its entirely uninteractive for your opponent when they turn up.
If it's such a balance problem why can Space Wolves still do it?
They don't get the free 20 hits and it's been 2 years, evidently the design paradigm has shifted and if we're being frank, the poster boys get different treatment. I fully expect they'll lose the option on the next pass.
The weapon restrictions on Terminators have nothing to do with S4 AP0 combi-flamers. They're because "that's what's in the kit". If they were worried about that, don't you think those Rubrics with their S4 AP-2 (possibly AP-3 depending on how they decide their Icon works) flamers would raise some eyebrows?
That's a fair point, I forgot they could 10 man flamer, although there has been a lot of talk online about including rubrics for the flamers, so it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Nevertheless I imagine space wolves will get the same treatment when they get a 9th book.
2022/07/20 06:22:26
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
drbored wrote: I'm not even surprised. I'm just disappointed.
Now we wait for the FAQ and whatever they're going to do with the Traitor Guard datasheet (if that's ever coming).
To be clear, I'm not expecting any improvements, just more of the same disappointment.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did just call them the shooty cultists, like someone else suggested. It would be on-brand for how lazy this entire release has been.
2022/07/20 07:17:30
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
From a game balance perspective, having 3w t4 2+/5++ units drop in from reserve with 10d6+20 flamer hits + 20 bolter rounds, might be a bit much to balance against as its entirely uninteractive for your opponent when they turn up.
If it's such a balance problem why can Space Wolves still do it?
They don't get the free 20 hits and it's been 2 years, evidently the design paradigm has shifted and if we're being frank, the poster boys get different treatment. I fully expect they'll lose the option on the next pass.
The weapon restrictions on Terminators have nothing to do with S4 AP0 combi-flamers. They're because "that's what's in the kit". If they were worried about that, don't you think those Rubrics with their S4 AP-2 (possibly AP-3 depending on how they decide their Icon works) flamers would raise some eyebrows?
That's a fair point, I forgot they could 10 man flamer, although there has been a lot of talk online about including rubrics for the flamers, so it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Nevertheless I imagine space wolves will get the same treatment when they get a 9th book.
Man, those squads of 12 Burna Boyz tellyporting in must be really tearing apart the tournament meta.
2022/07/20 07:35:22
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
From a game balance perspective, having 3w t4 2+/5++ units drop in from reserve with 10d6+20 flamer hits + 20 bolter rounds, might be a bit much to balance against as its entirely uninteractive for your opponent when they turn up.
If it's such a balance problem why can Space Wolves still do it?
They don't get the free 20 hits and it's been 2 years, evidently the design paradigm has shifted and if we're being frank, the poster boys get different treatment. I fully expect they'll lose the option on the next pass.
The weapon restrictions on Terminators have nothing to do with S4 AP0 combi-flamers. They're because "that's what's in the kit". If they were worried about that, don't you think those Rubrics with their S4 AP-2 (possibly AP-3 depending on how they decide their Icon works) flamers would raise some eyebrows?
That's a fair point, I forgot they could 10 man flamer, although there has been a lot of talk online about including rubrics for the flamers, so it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Nevertheless I imagine space wolves will get the same treatment when they get a 9th book.
Man, those squads of 12 Burna Boyz tellyporting in must be really tearing apart the tournament meta.
Oh noes, the burn (ba-dum-tsch) how could I not realise that 12 t5 6+ wounds doing 12d6 hits is the same as 30 t4 2+/5++ wounds doing 10d6 + 20 hits + 20 bolter rounds.
2022/07/20 12:10:38
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
ArcaneHorror wrote: The lack of ap on the chainsword is odd, though, and has to be an oversight.
That is a level of optimism I simply do not possess. I am genuinely envious.
Why would they deliberately leave it out though? Marine chainswords have had ap for I think two years now.
Lazy legends update is accidentally ok in this regard - the copy paste of the old datasheet includes old no AP chainsword as default wargear, but they can all be swapped for items from the melee list which includes modern astartes chainswords with AP (which you then lose again to AOC).
Anyone want to enlighten me on what the point is on the Terminator Lord update? He already has access to all melee weapons plus either a gun or lightning claw in the off hand, "upgrading" to any melee weapon in the offhand is either way worse or super gamey (double chainfist + slaanesh daemon weapon), legends being gamey just makes you feel bad for actually using it IMO.
In the old Codex I used to run a World Eater Terminator Lord with chainfist and power axe. The axe was upgraded to the Berzerker Glaive, which have him 5+ FNP and a Dmg2 option of I didn't want to fight at -1 to hit.
Thankfully, the model is magnetised so when the new Codex was leaked I just quickly made up a new arm to make him legal again, but this Legends update would've fixed that anyway.
Besides, it's not a bad option to have an alternative melee weapon available if your main weapon is a Daemon Weapon. If the Daemon resists, you have the option of simply dealing to the other weapon, though admittedly you could already do that with a lightning claw.
2022/07/20 12:24:15
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
drbored wrote: I'm not even surprised. I'm just disappointed.
Now we wait for the FAQ and whatever they're going to do with the Traitor Guard datasheet (if that's ever coming).
To be clear, I'm not expecting any improvements, just more of the same disappointment.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did just call them the shooty cultists, like someone else suggested. It would be on-brand for how lazy this entire release has been.
I think it wins the award for most mishandled release in GW history. Cut content, loss of options, bizarre paradigm shift, inconsistent application of said paradigm shift, models coming out late & separated from the codex, old stuff missing (MoP still), no communication as to why any of this happened or if it will be addressed... just a huge mess.
Personally, I scuttled my plans I started forming when the model reveal happened, and just want the rest to come out so we can be done with it. They screwed the chaos pooch again, let the empty daemon book come out and we can move on towards guard (which hopefully isn't as restricted by subfactions as it looks) and stripped down world eaters (still hope that won't be as bad, but I know its baseless) and hopefully a quick squat dump. Then see if there are any signs of hope on the horizon.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2022/07/20 14:01:12
Subject: Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
H.B.M.C. wrote: So do these Legends Mounted Lords have Marks...?
Who knows.
That would require someone actually bothering with legends.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2022/07/20 15:35:01
Subject: Re:Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)
Gene St. Ealer wrote: What do you hope to get from this, Dudeface? Do you think anybody is going to listen to you and do what you say? This stupid whining about the thread content is way more offtopic than the (supposed) whining itself.
He hopes to gain "GW okay, just wait!" which is not something I plan to listen to as we get more updates. I will express my frustration as will others, and if he doesn't want to hear it thats too bad. It's an open forum.
You're right it's an open forum for me to also express my frustrations.
I couldn't give less of a gak about the perception of GW or their perception to you, honestly, I enjoy the game and I consider that a lot of the criticisms levelled against them are overzealous a lot of the time, but yeah they do daft gak a lot of the time and sometimes need pulling up.
Regards the chaos stuff, yes losing options sucks, being asked to pay for other books for use of 1 unit sucks, is it a good idea form GW? obviously not.
Is whining endlessly in a news and rumours thread over and over and over and over going to actually help in any way? Not at all.
@Gert I didn't tell you not to complain, I offered solutions to you using the models you're upset about having illegal loadouts on.
But honest to god, since it's an open forum, suck it up a little. We have people who advocate piracy complaining about buying books. You weren't going to buy them anyway. What was the joy in the combi weapons you lost? "oh well I really enjoy deepstriking in, removing 1 unit, using the should-be-extinct shoot twice strat to do it twice then make easy charges with my emps children strats" - no tears shed that is gone. If your love is the models and the conversions and paintjob you put on them, the loss of a few plasma/melta/whatever shots shouldn't matter.
I have sympathy for the jump pack characters (owning some myself), I have sympathy for the book gated units, hell I even have sympathy for mutilator owners, I'm sure some exist. the rest of it isn't really a huge make or break sort of thing unless you're a tournament regular, in which case I dare say the model itself is of less import than the rules 9/10 anyway.
LOL, good to know my unit of Khorne Terminators with all Combi-Flamers was actually broken via shooting twice. Thanks, because I was relentlessly beating opponents with that.
Your khorne terminators with combi flamers couldn't fire twice. Starting to think you make a lot of this up.
From a game balance perspective, having 3w t4 2+/5++ units drop in from reserve with 10d6+20 flamer hits + 20 bolter rounds, might be a bit much to balance against as its entirely uninteractive for your opponent when they turn up.
If it's such a balance problem why can Space Wolves still do it?
They don't get the free 20 hits and it's been 2 years, evidently the design paradigm has shifted and if we're being frank, the poster boys get different treatment. I fully expect they'll lose the option on the next pass.
The weapon restrictions on Terminators have nothing to do with S4 AP0 combi-flamers. They're because "that's what's in the kit". If they were worried about that, don't you think those Rubrics with their S4 AP-2 (possibly AP-3 depending on how they decide their Icon works) flamers would raise some eyebrows?
That's a fair point, I forgot they could 10 man flamer, although there has been a lot of talk online about including rubrics for the flamers, so it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Nevertheless I imagine space wolves will get the same treatment when they get a 9th book.
Man, those squads of 12 Burna Boyz tellyporting in must be really tearing apart the tournament meta.
Oh noes, the burn (ba-dum-tsch) how could I not realise that 12 t5 6+ wounds doing 12d6 hits is the same as 30 t4 2+/5++ wounds doing 10d6 + 20 hits + 20 bolter rounds.
Not even an equivalent amount of points LOL. Just admit you're wrong when you completely forgot Rubrics can do it and for far cheaper.
cking remove the Sonic Dread option ?
The weapon restrictions on Terminators have nothing to do with S4 AP0 combi-flamers. They're because "that's what's in the kit". If they were worried about that, don't you think those Rubrics with their S4 
