Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

does anyone feel like the old 6th cultists look much better than the new range?

 aracersss wrote:
does anyone feel like the old 6th cultists look much better than the new range?

Not really, I personally enjoy the new aesthetic. It's a nice callback to ancient metal cultists.

I'm not a fan at all. GW continues to save me money.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I'm glad that we waited to see how bad the cultists are.

This whole release has been a big rebuttal of the "wait and see" argument. We waited, we saw, and everything was either as bad as expected, or worse.

You are forgetting the corollary to Wait And See though. Now it's time for You've Complained Long Enough Already.

Well, considering the momentum that Chaos players have built up over the past 15 years, that would be a case of an Unstoppable Force meeting.......a wet paper bag. Considering the quality of the arguments presented by the "You've Complained Long Enough Already" crowd.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

drbored wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Meh, as someone who was playing Iron Warriors with the chaos codex, shadowspear supplement, Vigilus ablaze and Psychic awakening Faith and Fury, this new codex is a godsend. That’s four books I can put away and replace with one. Don’t need new units so the book is a win for me, and probably a few others. I may get the possessed if they don’t turn out to be priced ridiculous but certainly don’t need them.

I love how you come in, ignore all the issues that people have been talking about the *model* side of the faction, or how the rules relate to many of the models in the case of stripped options, and just barrel in with being pleased with yourself about the book.

Rules change often. Watch, we'll have that many books that we'll "need" shortly enough, as the next campaign happens, supplements come out again, and probably some White Dwarf stuff as well.

Not everybody has same issues. If his collection isn't affected the loss of options is less concern for him.

Shock horror different people different opinions. Guess you think dakka should be just echo chamber with one truth only allowed.

It's shocking horror when said poster ignores said problems and goes "nah you're a bad consoomer"

Nah, it’s more shock horror that many actually ignore my past comments (go ahead, search in this thread) that agreed with many sentiments about the book. But as soon as I oppose the “common” view by stating that some complaints seem over the top, well then the flock just gathers and does what dakka flocks do.
The book is enjoyed by many, and is doing well it seems in comp scene (I think Auspex just posted a video about winning lists, haven’t watched yet). Trouble is there is this angry group posting here that intends to shout down anybody that either likes the book or opposes their viewpoint.
Shame that although several now on block, I still see the responses in quotes. Oh well.

You don't oppose them, you dismiss them.

 aracersss wrote:
does anyone feel like the old 6th cultists look much better than the new range?

I like both. I think the old Dark Vengeance cultists are great for 'seen too much war, fallen to chaos almost despite themselves' type cultists like you might see supporting forces like the Iron Warriors or Night Lords. The newer ones seem like more established religious fanatics like you might see in a Word Bearers force. I think if I had to choose one aesthetic though I prefer the older ones.

 aracersss wrote:
does anyone feel like the old 6th cultists look much better than the new range?

I do. I think they look better as a 'military' force rising up. Ragtag, cobbled together, poor equipped, but vicious.

The new cultists don't look bad and they definitely feel more like 'cultists' than 'insurgents' but to me they only look appropriate in an Emperor's Children/Slaanesh force. The 6th edition cultists could be used in any legion and look the part, especially Death Guard.

 bullyboy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

drbored wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Meh, as someone who was playing Iron Warriors with the chaos codex, shadowspear supplement, Vigilus ablaze and Psychic awakening Faith and Fury, this new codex is a godsend. That’s four books I can put away and replace with one. Don’t need new units so the book is a win for me, and probably a few others. I may get the possessed if they don’t turn out to be priced ridiculous but certainly don’t need them.

I love how you come in, ignore all the issues that people have been talking about the *model* side of the faction, or how the rules relate to many of the models in the case of stripped options, and just barrel in with being pleased with yourself about the book.

Rules change often. Watch, we'll have that many books that we'll "need" shortly enough, as the next campaign happens, supplements come out again, and probably some White Dwarf stuff as well.

Not everybody has same issues. If his collection isn't affected the loss of options is less concern for him.

Shock horror different people different opinions. Guess you think dakka should be just echo chamber with one truth only allowed.

It's shocking horror when said poster ignores said problems and goes "nah you're a bad consoomer"

Nah, it’s more shock horror that many actually ignore my past comments (go ahead, search in this thread) that agreed with many sentiments about the book. But as soon as I oppose the “common” view by stating that some complaints seem over the top, well then the flock just gathers and does what dakka flocks do.
The book is enjoyed by many, and is doing well it seems in comp scene (I think Auspex just posted a video about winning lists, haven’t watched yet). Trouble is there is this angry group posting here that intends to shout down anybody that either likes the book or opposes their viewpoint.
Shame that although several now on block, I still see the responses in quotes. Oh well.

You aren't just opposing a view, you're just outright ignoring and dismissing concerns.

And please, two tournaments is like nothing. If that's your standard, you probably loved the 6th edition Tyranid codex.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

drbored wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Meh, as someone who was playing Iron Warriors with the chaos codex, shadowspear supplement, Vigilus ablaze and Psychic awakening Faith and Fury, this new codex is a godsend. That’s four books I can put away and replace with one. Don’t need new units so the book is a win for me, and probably a few others. I may get the possessed if they don’t turn out to be priced ridiculous but certainly don’t need them.

I love how you come in, ignore all the issues that people have been talking about the *model* side of the faction, or how the rules relate to many of the models in the case of stripped options, and just barrel in with being pleased with yourself about the book.

Rules change often. Watch, we'll have that many books that we'll "need" shortly enough, as the next campaign happens, supplements come out again, and probably some White Dwarf stuff as well.

Not everybody has same issues. If his collection isn't affected the loss of options is less concern for him.

Shock horror different people different opinions. Guess you think dakka should be just echo chamber with one truth only allowed.

It's shocking horror when said poster ignores said problems and goes "nah you're a bad consoomer"

Nah, it’s more shock horror that many actually ignore my past comments (go ahead, search in this thread) that agreed with many sentiments about the book. But as soon as I oppose the “common” view by stating that some complaints seem over the top, well then the flock just gathers and does what dakka flocks do.
The book is enjoyed by many, and is doing well it seems in comp scene (I think Auspex just posted a video about winning lists, haven’t watched yet). Trouble is there is this angry group posting here that intends to shout down anybody that either likes the book or opposes their viewpoint.
Shame that although several now on block, I still see the responses in quotes. Oh well.

You aren't just opposing a view, you're just outright ignoring and dismissing concerns.

And please, two tournaments is like nothing. If that's your standard, you probably loved the 6th edition Tyranid codex.

Again, reading is useful. I stated “seems like” doing well, so that implies an uncertain aspect because definitive data has not been gathered yet. It’s still relevant that someone is driving them effectively.

Well did it "seem like" 6th Edition Tyranids were doing well?

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Well did it "seem like" 6th Edition Tyranids were doing well?

Wasn’t around in 6th, took a break from 4th until late 7th so have no clue.

Its pretty irritating that one of the cultists has a bionic chest/arm with no alternative. So multiple boxes of cultists means multiple bionic cultists.

The rest of them being monopose could be solved with a few swaps at the wrist but not that particular model.

Have we even gotten the FAQ/Errata?

So a weekend of tourneys has come and gone, and nuCSM are sitting at a 46% winrate. Considering other codexes came out of the gate hot with massive winrates, that's not exactly a pleasant sight.

Word Bearers did better though, they're doing ok. But Night Lords are sitting at a 10% winrate... so yeah. Just re-affirming my decision not to get this codex and use my CSM for grimdark future instead.

 cole1114 wrote:
So a weekend of tourneys has come and gone, and nuCSM are sitting at a 46% winrate. Considering other codexes came out of the gate hot with massive winrates, that's not exactly a pleasant sight.

Word Bearers did better though, they're doing ok. But Night Lords are sitting at a 10% winrate... so yeah. Just re-affirming my decision not to get this codex and use my CSM for grimdark future instead.

God damn, GW really does not like Night Lords, huh?

LOOOOL I fething knew it. Once everything is simmered down, that win rate is going to plummet.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
So a weekend of tourneys has come and gone, and nuCSM are sitting at a 46% winrate. Considering other codexes came out of the gate hot with massive winrates, that's not exactly a pleasant sight.

Word Bearers did better though, they're doing ok. But Night Lords are sitting at a 10% winrate... so yeah. Just re-affirming my decision not to get this codex and use my CSM for grimdark future instead.

God damn, GW really does not like Night Lords, huh?

I'm not sure where that number is coming from, as 40KStats has them at a 52% winrate with 38 games played this past week? CSM are at 51%, with 870.

 Laughing Man wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
So a weekend of tourneys has come and gone, and nuCSM are sitting at a 46% winrate. Considering other codexes came out of the gate hot with massive winrates, that's not exactly a pleasant sight.

Word Bearers did better though, they're doing ok. But Night Lords are sitting at a 10% winrate... so yeah. Just re-affirming my decision not to get this codex and use my CSM for grimdark future instead.

God damn, GW really does not like Night Lords, huh?

I'm not sure where that number is coming from, as 40KStats has them at a 52% winrate with 38 games played this past week? CSM are at 51%, with 870.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/w9bliw/meta_mondaywednesday_72622_the_meta_heats_up/

 Laughing Man wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
So a weekend of tourneys has come and gone, and nuCSM are sitting at a 46% winrate. Considering other codexes came out of the gate hot with massive winrates, that's not exactly a pleasant sight.

Word Bearers did better though, they're doing ok. But Night Lords are sitting at a 10% winrate... so yeah. Just re-affirming my decision not to get this codex and use my CSM for grimdark future instead.

God damn, GW really does not like Night Lords, huh?

I'm not sure where that number is coming from, as 40KStats has them at a 52% winrate with 38 games played this past week? CSM are at 51%, with 870.

95% sure 40k stats includes dinky locals nobody cares about.

Just another data lake where you can go fish for statistics: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/w8pf1d/stat_check_40k_meta_data_dashboard_update_july/

GW put out the points updates for every faction. Chaos Marines were listed there, but to save everyone a few minutes, no points changes were made.

I wasn't expecting any, since the Codex did just come out, but it's obnoxious that GW doesn't highlight any changes with any different colors. Could have saved more people a lot more time.

But yeah, winrate statistics anywhere between 45-55% are generally a 'success' for GW, with things lower or higher than that being imbalanced and needing to be brought back into some semblance of normalcy.

We still are waiting for an FAQ on a few details (legionaries plasma pistols breaking the 'by the box' loadout), to see what happens with Traitor Guard, and of course the rest of the kits to actually be released...

drbored wrote:
GW put out the points updates for every faction. Chaos Marines were listed there, but to save everyone a few minutes, no points changes were made.

I wasn't expecting any, since the Codex did just come out, but it's obnoxious that GW doesn't highlight any changes with any different colors. Could have saved more people a lot more time.

But yeah, winrate statistics anywhere between 45-55% are generally a 'success' for GW, with things lower or higher than that being imbalanced and needing to be brought back into some semblance of normalcy.

We still are waiting for an FAQ on a few details (legionaries plasma pistols breaking the 'by the box' loadout), to see what happens with Traitor Guard, and of course the rest of the kits to actually be released...

Doubtful pistols will be FAQ'd, several heavy weapons and champion melee weapons also not in the box. FWIW, almost every unit that has wargear options falls short of 'by the box' save for terminators and chosen - with fun unique ways to not meet the arbitrary standard on each.

pgmason wrote:

 aracersss wrote:
does anyone feel like the old 6th cultists look much better than the new range?

I like both. I think the old Dark Vengeance cultists are great for 'seen too much war, fallen to chaos almost despite themselves' type cultists like you might see supporting forces like the Iron Warriors or Night Lords. The newer ones seem like more established religious fanatics like you might see in a Word Bearers force. I think if I had to choose one aesthetic though I prefer the older ones.

Definitely prefer the Dark Vengeance cultists, they looked like Imperial workers who'd grabbed guns and maybe hung a homemade chaos star off their belts.

The new ones like they had a couple of weeks to go to a tailor and work on their Chaos Cultist Cosplay outfits. One of them would look 'right' leading a squad of more normal guys but all together they look more like a Vegas review than a rag tag rebel group.

Maybe they're ment to represent mortal servants from the Eye o'Terror rather than rebel cultists?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

pgmason wrote:

 aracersss wrote:
does anyone feel like the old 6th cultists look much better than the new range?

I like both. I think the old Dark Vengeance cultists are great for 'seen too much war, fallen to chaos almost despite themselves' type cultists like you might see supporting forces like the Iron Warriors or Night Lords. The newer ones seem like more established religious fanatics like you might see in a Word Bearers force. I think if I had to choose one aesthetic though I prefer the older ones.

Definitely prefer the Dark Vengeance cultists, they looked like Imperial workers who'd grabbed guns and maybe hung a homemade chaos star off their belts.

The new ones like they had a couple of weeks to go to a tailor and work on their Chaos Cultist Cosplay outfits. One of them would look 'right' leading a squad of more normal guys but all together they look more like a Vegas review than a rag tag rebel group.

Maybe they're ment to represent mortal servants from the Eye o'Terror rather than rebel cultists?

I've got a bunch of the DV ones. I have a single box of the Cultists of the Abyss, but I'm gonna grab another for the extra grenade launcher. Probably will snag a single box of the new guys to mix in with everyone.

I think the worst part about this codex is that it's not even that far off from being a good CSM codex. If they didn't take out all the customization for characters/chosen/terminators/etc it jumps to like an 8/10. Fix the NL's awful trait and I'd be happy, at the very least.

But that's just happy, not even like ecstatic. Remember when they went through and made sure every LSM legion got a new character, even the ones who already had them? Why couldn't they do that for us. Decimus, Honsou, Erebus, it's not like we don't have tons of characters who deserve models...

It all just feels so lazy, and slapdash, and so... it just missed the mark as hard as it could.

It does feel like many of the things that are hard to get right were done right, then so many things which are trivially easy to get right they screwed up.

drbored wrote:GW put out the points updates for every faction. Chaos Marines were listed there, but to save everyone a few minutes, no points changes were made.

I wasn't expecting any, since the Codex did just come out, but it's obnoxious that GW doesn't highlight any changes with any different colors. Could have saved more people a lot more time.

But yeah, winrate statistics anywhere between 45-55% are generally a 'success' for GW, with things lower or higher than that being imbalanced and needing to be brought back into some semblance of normalcy.

We still are waiting for an FAQ on a few details (legionaries plasma pistols breaking the 'by the box' loadout), to see what happens with Traitor Guard, and of course the rest of the kits to actually be released...

Don't forget the eventual FAQ for our fw units. It'll just add the relevant keywords to make them work with the codex, but we still need it.

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:God damn, GW really does not like Night Lords, huh?

No, no, no. The 40k rules team doesn't like Night Lords. The HH rules team seems to love them. It feels like the morale, Pinning, and Night Fighting (especially the Night Fighting) rules were written just for them. They go together with their Legion rules like peanut butter and chocolate.

cole1114 wrote:Fix the NL's awful trait and I'd be happy, at the very least.

Seriously cole1114, if you want good rules for your Night Lords then you need to check out HH. That game has given the 8th Legion the best rules that they've ever had, IMHO.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

cole1114 wrote:Fix the NL's awful trait and I'd be happy, at the very least.

Seriously cole1114, if you want good rules for your Night Lords then you need to check out HH. That game has given the 8th Legion the best rules that they've ever had, IMHO.

They're... ok. I have trouble theory-crafting rules with them in HH. Terror Squads/Night Raptors not getting line in their RoW really shot all my plans tho I'm still workshopping ideas.

Anyway if the rest of the codex was better I could at least happily use a homebrew legion trait instead, when playing with friends. But as soon as I get to chosen or terminators I just get sad again and stop.

 cole1114 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

cole1114 wrote:Fix the NL's awful trait and I'd be happy, at the very least.

Seriously cole1114, if you want good rules for your Night Lords then you need to check out HH. That game has given the 8th Legion the best rules that they've ever had, IMHO.

They're... ok. I have trouble theory-crafting rules with them in HH. Terror Squads/Night Raptors not getting line in their RoW really shot all my plans tho I'm still workshopping ideas.

Anyway if the rest of the codex was better I could at least happily use a homebrew legion trait instead, when playing with friends. But as soon as I get to chosen or terminators I just get sad again and stop.

They're "ok"? A Talent For Murder works for both melee and shooting, and is achievable through multiple easy methods: Pin them, force a Fallback, and if you can't do those, just outnumber them. Which isn't hard for a Legion that heavily uses jump pack units, which are all Bulky(2). Preysight ignores ALL of the effects of Night Fighting, and can be given to ANY Night Lords unit, including dreadnoughts, which gives Night Lords the only dreadnoughts that can ignore the -1BS and 24" LoS restrictions of Night Fighting. And even if Night Fighting isn't in effect Preysight still ignores Shrouded, which is a very common defensive ability, including the benefit of one of the two Reactions in the Shooting Phase. Nostroman Chain Weapons are great, and so are Night Raptors and Terror Squads, even without Line as they can still Deny. You bring Assault and Recon squads for Line. And in a game where deep strike for Terminators is rare, we get TWO types of Terminators with it built in. These rules are even better than the rules Night Lords had in 3.5.