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 Hellebore wrote:
Yeesh, that is some dense and unfriendly text.


How many tournaments are going to keep running 2nd ed?

Not to get pedantic, but I mostly play in events, not tournaments for HH. While I'm hopeful that AdeptiCon HH will stick with 2nd, I'm not holding my breath.

New editions bring in new players, after all.

Have we considered the possibility that the British government is using GW rulebooks to scout for a new Turing-level intellect and Doc passed?

Just fluff today unless they decide to do some leak damage control.

 Rolsheen wrote:
I want to thank you all, you've saved me and my friends thousands of dollars by killing any interest in starting Horus Heresy by showing how the rules are so open to misunderstanding, bickering and hostility.

Don’t be put off by this thread - this is a fairly typical Dakka reaction to a new rules set. It’s perhaps more intense because (1) HH players tend to be a fairly conservative lot, and (2) there is a lot of unhappiness about a new rules set being released so soon; people are therefore even less receptive than usual. No one here actually knows how these rules will work, no matter how authoritative they may seem. There are other sites offering a more nuanced take - look around some more before you walk away from HH.

The HH: Age of Darkness discord certainly has a more nuanced take, the best copium so far has been "WarCom is posting the wrong rules".

But do stick to actual communities (Reddit, Discord, Forums, Facebook). Friendly reminder that youtubers are not credible sources apart from reading books verbatim.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Perils of the Warp is a good spot to explain to first time gamers that the result of the dice roll is the number on the uppermost face of the dice, in case you were still confused on how dice work by the time you got to your first psychic check.

My dice don't have numbers on them, they have pips. I assume my psykers will therefore be immune to perils.

I'm not sure that I'll get the "3d Edition", but the models are really impressive. I like the look of these older armor sets, and the ease in which to put them together.

Whoever designed these sprues, can you go over to 40k, and put some work in on those sprues, as well?
I shouldn't have to have a PHD in Engineering, just to put models together.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Perils of the Warp is a good spot to explain to first time gamers that the result of the dice roll is the number on the uppermost face of the dice, in case you were still confused on how dice work by the time you got to your first psychic check.

How To Roll Citadel Dice wasn't an April Fools joke. It was a test.

 Snord wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
I want to thank you all, you've saved me and my friends thousands of dollars by killing any interest in starting Horus Heresy by showing how the rules are so open to misunderstanding, bickering and hostility.

Don’t be put off by this thread - this is a fairly typical Dakka reaction to a new rules set. It’s perhaps more intense because (1) HH players tend to be a fairly conservative lot, and (2) there is a lot of unhappiness about a new rules set being released so soon; people are therefore even less receptive than usual. No one here actually knows how these rules will work, no matter how authoritative they may seem. There are other sites offering a more nuanced take - look around some more before you walk away from HH.

I'll second this sentiment. Don't let all the curmudgeons put you off. The rules so far have me excited, as they seem to be really leaning into thematic and narrative elements to make the game play like the action in the novels. I am going to fully reserve final judgement until we have all the books in hand and can play a few games to see.

The problem is I'm not gonna invest $€£¥ into books for a game that is not going to get FAQ/ERRATA and then just shuffled off into another edition in 3yrs.

So based on their previous behaviour its nuts to then magically expect them to change said behaviour this time...but trust them at your own peril.

Elegant



(this the first move you make during a charge, before firing pistols)

I am a bit confused tho, they don't explain which row in the left column corresponds with which row in the right column.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Have we considered the possibility that the British government is using GW rulebooks to scout for a new Turing-level intellect and Doc passed?

Just fluff today unless they decide to do some leak damage control.

Mate, if they are? The test is wrong.

I’m pretty damned competent at what I do, but far from the smartest person in many rooms.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Snord wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
I want to thank you all, you've saved me and my friends thousands of dollars by killing any interest in starting Horus Heresy by showing how the rules are so open to misunderstanding, bickering and hostility.

Don’t be put off by this thread - this is a fairly typical Dakka reaction to a new rules set. It’s perhaps more intense because (1) HH players tend to be a fairly conservative lot, and (2) there is a lot of unhappiness about a new rules set being released so soon; people are therefore even less receptive than usual. No one here actually knows how these rules will work, no matter how authoritative they may seem. There are other sites offering a more nuanced take - look around some more before you walk away from HH.

I'll second this sentiment. Don't let all the curmudgeons put you off. The rules so far have me excited, as they seem to be really leaning into thematic and narrative elements to make the game play like the action in the novels. I am going to fully reserve final judgement until we have all the books in hand and can play a few games to see.

I would say the opposite, if you one doesn't see the need to spend lot of money on books that will be replaced in 3 years, just don't do it.
No need to buy into something just because people on the internet tell you it must be done for the sake of whatever

those people who have everything from the current version and like the game, no need to buy everything again and start from scratch, it won't be better just different

 kodos wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Snord wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
I want to thank you all, you've saved me and my friends thousands of dollars by killing any interest in starting Horus Heresy by showing how the rules are so open to misunderstanding, bickering and hostility.

Don’t be put off by this thread - this is a fairly typical Dakka reaction to a new rules set. It’s perhaps more intense because (1) HH players tend to be a fairly conservative lot, and (2) there is a lot of unhappiness about a new rules set being released so soon; people are therefore even less receptive than usual. No one here actually knows how these rules will work, no matter how authoritative they may seem. There are other sites offering a more nuanced take - look around some more before you walk away from HH.

I'll second this sentiment. Don't let all the curmudgeons put you off. The rules so far have me excited, as they seem to be really leaning into thematic and narrative elements to make the game play like the action in the novels. I am going to fully reserve final judgement until we have all the books in hand and can play a few games to see.

I would say the opposite, if you one doesn't see the need to spend lot of money on books that will be replaced in 3 years, just don't do it.
No need to buy into something just because people on the internet tell you it must be done for the sake of whatever

those people who have everything from the current version and like the game, no need to buy everything again and start from scratch, it won't be better just different

This never works really. Most places will keep up with the current rules and move on. I heard this line after every edition change since I started and no one plays those older editions of 40k or HH, etc. I'd even argue supporting the stores you play at by buying products, books included, from them helps us have a place to play. Also, go in on books as a group and make copies. Sharing is caring.

so because it doesn't work for you, your advice to any other player group is to just buy the latest edition no matter if they like it or not because everyone at home must follow

on the other side, I know people who still play 40k 5th Edition because they never moved on from it and are still happy doing so

if you don't play in stores or go to events, no need to follow the churn and burn

 kodos wrote:
so because it doesn't work for you, your advice to any other player group is to just buy the latest edition no matter if they like it or not because everyone at home must follow

on the other side, I know people who still play 40k 5th Edition because they never moved on from it and are still happy doing so

if you don't play in stores or go to events, no need to follow the churn and burn

It isn't that it "doesn't work for me". It is that a vast majority won't do this and never have.

No offense, but I highly doubt you know people playing 5th Edition. And yeah, sure, if you don't play in stores, events or clubs that keep current, do whatever you want. That is always an option. Not even sure why someone would care about "churn and burn" if they aren't playing in any environment in which staying current matters. Feels like complaining just to complain.

"You only get an opinion if you play in a store" is a wild take.

Just because we don't play in a store doesn't mean we aren't interesting in new editions and it is entirely fair to be disappointed when a new edition is not what we perceive to be good.

I'd wager it's even more important to people who don't have a central place to play with a wide pool of other players.

Which isn’t what he said?

If you play in store, particularly pick up games? It’s almost certainly going to be the current edition.

If a given store won’t let you and a friend play an earlier edition? That’s a problem with that store.

Personally, I play in stores and I haven't seen a pick up game in 10 years. It's all pre-scheduled games then we leave.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Personally, I play in stores and I haven't seen a pick up game in 10 years. It's all pre-scheduled games then we leave.

thats kinda how it is across all games, PUG are gone, mostly scheduled through discords now.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Personally, I play in stores and I haven't seen a pick up game in 10 years. It's all pre-scheduled games then we leave.

thats kinda how it is across all games, PUG are gone, mostly scheduled through discords now.

Same here

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Personally, I play in stores and I haven't seen a pick up game in 10 years. It's all pre-scheduled games then we leave.

thats kinda how it is across all games, PUG are gone, mostly scheduled through discords now.

Yup, and that's my point. The excuse of "well, you have to play the new edition because that's what the store plays" is both true and false, because you have to schedule a game anyway and if you put in the work, you can most likely find someone to play whatever game or edition you want. My store is generally tournament try hards that refuse to play anything but the most current 40K mission pack, but there's still enough that are willing to play a retro edition day on the 21st because my friend and I put in the work to ask around on our Discord and Messenger group for the store. Those same people are even interested in doing a 5th Edition Badab War Campaign. If you don't ask and just assume, of course you'll only see current edition X.

Yeah you can find people for a day, thats easy, but sticking with an edition is near impossible in the long run.

 Gert wrote:
"You only get an opinion if you play in a store" is a wild take.

Just because we don't play in a store doesn't mean we aren't interesting in new editions and it is entirely fair to be disappointed when a new edition is not what we perceive to be good.

I'd wager it's even more important to people who don't have a central place to play with a wide pool of other players.

Not what I said. You don't seem to want to engage in discussion in a civil way and just want to complain about an edition that isn't even out yet.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Personally, I play in stores and I haven't seen a pick up game in 10 years. It's all pre-scheduled games then we leave.

thats kinda how it is across all games, PUG are gone, mostly scheduled through discords now.

Yup, and that's my point. The excuse of "well, you have to play the new edition because that's what the store plays" is both true and false, because you have to schedule a game anyway and if you put in the work, you can most likely find someone to play whatever game or edition you want. My store is generally tournament try hards that refuse to play anything but the most current 40K mission pack, but there's still enough that are willing to play a retro edition day on the 21st because my friend and I put in the work to ask around on our Discord and Messenger group for the store. Those same people are even interested in doing a 5th Edition Badab War Campaign. If you don't ask and just assume, of course you'll only see current edition X.

It isn't the store, it is the groups. In all my many decades of gaming, I have never seen a group stick to old rules unless the game its dead (like Mordheim). Of course you can try to do a retro one-off game, but that is tough when maybe a few players don't even have rules to use in 5th Edition (Votann, for example). Plus, that is looking back with rose-colored glasses. 5th had so many problems, as did every edition. So will this new one, probably. But complaining endlessly about it and making wild accusations of AI use and whatnot. Just too much. I've been here at Dakka for a long ass time and it is wild how far down the doom and gloom path it has taken.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I've been here at Dakka for a long ass time and it is wild how far down the doom and gloom path it has taken.

I've been here since Russ owned the site and had the store, there's always been doom and gloom.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


No offense, but I highly doubt you know people playing 5th Edition.

Put me down for Rogue Trader, 3rd edition and Kill Team 2018.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Snord wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
I want to thank you all, you've saved me and my friends thousands of dollars by killing any interest in starting Horus Heresy by showing how the rules are so open to misunderstanding, bickering and hostility.

Don’t be put off by this thread - this is a fairly typical Dakka reaction to a new rules set. It’s perhaps more intense because (1) HH players tend to be a fairly conservative lot, and (2) there is a lot of unhappiness about a new rules set being released so soon; people are therefore even less receptive than usual. No one here actually knows how these rules will work, no matter how authoritative they may seem. There are other sites offering a more nuanced take - look around some more before you walk away from HH.

I'll second this sentiment. Don't let all the curmudgeons put you off. The rules so far have me excited, as they seem to be really leaning into thematic and narrative elements to make the game play like the action in the novels. I am going to fully reserve final judgement until we have all the books in hand and can play a few games to see.

I had assumed that person was making a joke. Even if they're weren't deliberately doing that, the post works as a clever joke, and I chuckled when I read it.

The punchline being that giving up and writing the rules in complete legalese has still lead to misunderstanding and bickering. Only instead of it being bickering about the intent or function of the rules, it's about the aesthetic quality of them and the unpleasantness of reading them.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:


Perils of the Warp is a good spot to explain to first time gamers that the result of the dice roll is the number on the uppermost face of the dice, in case you were still confused on how dice work by the time you got to your first psychic check.

Forget that, this is an incomprehensible word salad even without the dice roll explanation.

 kronk wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Yeesh, that is some dense and unfriendly text.


How many tournaments are going to keep running 2nd ed?

Not to get pedantic, but I mostly play in events, not tournaments for HH. While I'm hopeful that AdeptiCon HH will stick with 2nd, I'm not holding my breath.

New editions bring in new players, after all.

Noted. I'm not sure this edition is going to encourage new players though. The continual reveals of how dense, overly wordy and unnecessarily long the text is is about as ANTI new players as a game can get.

This is clearly not Horus Heresy: Accessibility Edition...

chaos0xomega wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:


Perils of the Warp is a good spot to explain to first time gamers that the result of the dice roll is the number on the uppermost face of the dice, in case you were still confused on how dice work by the time you got to your first psychic check.

Forget that, this is an incomprehensible word salad even without the dice roll explanation.

Oh, dear Changer... they actually did hire lawyers to write these rules, didn't they?

"This book reads like stereo instructions." -Adam Maitland, Beetlejuice

 BorderCountess wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:


Perils of the Warp is a good spot to explain to first time gamers that the result of the dice roll is the number on the uppermost face of the dice, in case you were still confused on how dice work by the time you got to your first psychic check.

Forget that, this is an incomprehensible word salad even without the dice roll explanation.

Oh, dear Changer... they actually did hire lawyers to write these rules, didn't they?

"This book reads like stereo instructions." -Adam Maitland, Beetlejuice

I never thought that Paralegal Degree would pay off! Now I can use my skills to play a game.