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More nubs than most of the samples I've seen, but those will be pretty easy to clip. Loos like a pretty normal resin cast. Maybe a bit less touch up than usual.
LunarSol wrote: More nubs than most of the samples I've seen, but those will be pretty easy to clip. Loos like a pretty normal resin cast. Maybe a bit less touch up than usual.
I just can't wrap my head around how this is in any way more economical than 3d printing masters and casting with resin. Unless they literally can't afford to hire mold masters, or they're being subsidized by a printer company or something.
Yeah, it looks like a good print, but it doesn't look THAT much better than a competent resin casting, though it has fewer pieces. It's like they're trying to meet the pre-paint crowd halfway with partially assembled models.
Every faction is getting armies in October. I suspect most people will have something from their collection that makes the cut unless they focused on something really niche. Again, all we can really do is wait and see, but I personally am not in a position to be concerned about having nothing to play in October.
So, with the MKIV launch, we will release rules for one Legacy army from each currently existing WARMACHINE and HORDES Faction
1 army per faction. So a very specific set of warcasters, jacks and infantry. You might have something playable, but unless you collected that specific theme, or have a larger collection, you may have jack all to play.
LunarSol wrote: More nubs than most of the samples I've seen, but those will be pretty easy to clip. Loos like a pretty normal resin cast. Maybe a bit less touch up than usual.
I just can't wrap my head around how this is in any way more economical than 3d printing masters and casting with resin. Unless they literally can't afford to hire mold masters, or they're being subsidized by a printer company or something.
Yeah, it looks like a good print, but it doesn't look THAT much better than a competent resin casting, though it has fewer pieces.
It's PP, they probably can't afford to hire mold masters.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
slyphic wrote: I just can't wrap my head around how this is in any way more economical than 3d printing masters and casting with resin. Unless they literally can't afford to hire mold masters, or they're being subsidized by a printer company or something.
Yeah, it looks like a good print, but it doesn't look THAT much better than a competent resin casting, though it has fewer pieces. It's like they're trying to meet the pre-paint crowd halfway with partially assembled models.
Costs for resin casting versus direct 3d printing are actually pretty close these days. There is the advantage of being able to print things that are not easily doable via 2 part molds, which can reduce labor costs pretty quickly. Materials wise, yeah not much difference, but the increased difficulty of having to cut models in good ways in order to make them moldable/castable is actually not insignificant, for both the "prep" stage to make the master and later for the actual casting.
There's also the advantage of saving on storage space since you no longer have to store the molds. And you're not going to have to regularly re-make the molds either (resin casting molds only will yield 20-100 parts, depending on complexity, before the mold is too worn out and needs to be remade). Again, big time and cost saving there. The consumables of printers isn't that much (most often the FEP sheets, which are a lot less than the raw RTV for mold making).
I dunno if it’s the kit photos being bright, the detail being poor, or the paint job being crap, some or all the preceding….but I am so far from impressed.
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Seeing that one larger sample photo, I am wondering what printers they're using. Frankly, I can get sharper detail on my Sonic Mini 4k. Now, some of that might be the sculpt itself, but to my eye that actually looks over-cured.
A huge part will depend on how good they are at calibrating their printers and then using supports. In theory because its all in-house they could calibrate a set machine type and use a set resin and thus get some really clean prints with only a few anchor supports and the rest really low damage to no damage.
Ergo in theory they could achieve better than even the big names in the presupport market (because those have to be a little heavier because the general home user won't have perfectly calibrated machines and can have different machines and resins with varying tolerances).
Suffice to say there's certainly a lot of quality resin models out there now from 3D prints that people are more than happy with. It totally can be done.
Overread wrote: A huge part will depend on how good they are at calibrating their printers and then using supports. In theory because its all in-house they could calibrate a set machine type and use a set resin and thus get some really clean prints with only a few anchor supports and the rest really low damage to no damage.
Ergo in theory they could achieve better than even the big names in the presupport market (because those have to be a little heavier because the general home user won't have perfectly calibrated machines and can have different machines and resins with varying tolerances).
Suffice to say there's certainly a lot of quality resin models out there now from 3D prints that people are more than happy with. It totally can be done.
100% agree on that. By standardizing on a printer model and resin, they can really optimize for that. Which is something the STL Patreon community can't really do.
Valander wrote: Seeing that one larger sample photo, I am wondering what printers they're using. Frankly, I can get sharper detail on my Sonic Mini 4k. Now, some of that might be the sculpt itself, but to my eye that actually looks over-cured.
I think it's the sculpt. Warmachine always had detail levels all over the place, sometimes on the same miniature.
Valander wrote: Seeing that one larger sample photo, I am wondering what printers they're using. Frankly, I can get sharper detail on my Sonic Mini 4k. Now, some of that might be the sculpt itself, but to my eye that actually looks over-cured.
I think it's the sculpt. Warmachine always had detail levels all over the place, sometimes on the same miniature.
Yeah, the more I look at it, I think you're right that the issue is more in the sculpt. Still though, it's actually not bad; seems better than most PVC or Bones-type stuff I've seen. Granted, this is one part so it's hard to make sweeping judgements, but...
As an existing player and a real fan of where MK3 is right now, rules wise, I have to say that I really don't know who else other than a portion of the existing player base is going to be buying Mk4. Which is bad news for PP.
The view inside the PP fanbase is mixed. The view from outside the PP fanbase is largely negative and no retailer iv seen who have commented have really been interested in freeing up shelf space for this.
I really hope it not the case as I love the game and I like most of the new rule set but for a new flagship game and relaunch, this isn't even getting a lukewarm reception in the places it matters.
Ultimately the existing playerbase is dwindling and nothing done to Mk3 is going to change that. They desperately need new starter products, but making something that fits in with Mk3 is ugly at best, especially you need some of the existing playerbase to buy into it. Too much technology has changed to continue to support the endless back catalog, so they're going with the relaunch. Hopefully it succeeds, but realistically even if it fails its in more or less the same place now. The mk3 die hards can keep playing regardless of whether it dies now or later.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From the Warmachine FB page - this is apparently a production print of one of the components.
The weapon looks bent to my eye.
A ton of nubs that could potentially break off the edges they're on after curing and shipping.
Regarding the previewed Stormblade unit, would it kill them to give unique poses for all models in a unit?
They are only 6 models each now!
I bet the 3 man units have a leader and 2 clones as well.
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Overread wrote: A huge part will depend on how good they are at calibrating their printers and then using supports. In theory because its all in-house they could calibrate a set machine type and use a set resin and thus get some really clean prints with only a few anchor supports and the rest really low damage to no damage.
Ergo in theory they could achieve better than even the big names in the presupport market (because those have to be a little heavier because the general home user won't have perfectly calibrated machines and can have different machines and resins with varying tolerances).
Suffice to say there's certainly a lot of quality resin models out there now from 3D prints that people are more than happy with. It totally can be done.
100% agree on that. By standardizing on a printer model and resin, they can really optimize for that. Which is something the STL Patreon community can't really do.
Exactly. Plus if they've got all the skills in-house the volume they'd be producing at and the small library of model types (compared to your average merchant) means that they could keep refining the process. They can constantly be tweaking supports to get them lighter and to get the best angles and such.
Same for model cuts too, they've potential to do some really fancy cuts that you just don't see in the STL market because it moves at an insane speed for patreon and the like.
Yeah, duplicate models for 6 man units is really, really lazy if you're doing 3d print production. I get it when making resin casts, since you're then able to reduce the number of molds needed, but really, even a small tweak in Zbrush (or whatever their sculptors use) to get a little variance is easy, and I honestly can't see why you wouldn't do that.
Valander wrote: Yeah, duplicate models for 6 man units is really, really lazy if you're doing 3d print production. I get it when making resin casts, since you're then able to reduce the number of molds needed, but really, even a small tweak in Zbrush (or whatever their sculptors use) to get a little variance is easy, and I honestly can't see why you wouldn't do that.
Greed and lazyness?
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
This is the main problem.
Like 3 influencers got model previews, and that’s a single Orgoth Warjack.
One of them apparently doesn't have any files or sandpaper and did a 20min paintjob on the model. You would think they would send the first copies of models to good painters so the community can get an idea of their quality.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/01 22:39:03
This is the main problem.
Like 3 influencers got model previews, and that’s a single Orgoth Warjack.
One of them apparently doesn't have any files or sandpaper and did a 20min paintjob on the model. You would think they would send the first copies of models to good painters so the community can get an idea of their quality.
Well, in a way, that's par for the general Warmachine/Hordes community--the number of partially assembled, unpainted models I've seen played in games is the highest amongst the Warmachine crowd of any I've ever seen. Pretty much the only time I've seen fully painted is at Adepticon, and even there it felt like most folks went for the 3 color minimum.
Now, of course, I'm sweeping with a big brush there, and there are absolutely some great painters in the Warmachine community, but I think if you go back through lots of threads you'll see a similar observation for most areas.
But yeah, as Ghool pointed out earlier in the thread, their choices of who got the preview models seemed to be... interesting.
This is the main problem. Like 3 influencers got model previews, and that’s a single Orgoth Warjack.
One of them apparently doesn't have any files or sandpaper and did a 20min paintjob on the model. You would think they would send the first copies of models to good painters so the community can get an idea of their quality.
Well, in a way, that's par for the general Warmachine/Hordes community--the number of partially assembled, unpainted models I've seen played in games is the highest amongst the Warmachine crowd of any I've ever seen. Pretty much the only time I've seen fully painted is at Adepticon, and even there it felt like most folks went for the 3 color minimum.
Now, of course, I'm sweeping with a big brush there, and there are absolutely some great painters in the Warmachine community, but I think if you go back through lots of threads you'll see a similar observation for most areas.
But yeah, as Ghool pointed out earlier in the thread, their choices of who got the preview models seemed to be... interesting.
There used to be some amazing WMH painters at GenCon, but they're playing in the Iron Arena on the premium tables with specific scenarios because they meet the paint requirements to be able to play on those tables.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/01 23:47:16
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They chose the 3 people that still publicly admit to playing Warmachine. I agree about the unpainted models though. I remember a lot of different colored felt circles on the table to represent terrain types and people playing with bases that had units written on them in silver sharpie. Definitely a different mindset from the 40k crowd. Then I got the models and realized why, their quality didn't really inspire a lot of high quality painting
This is the main problem. Like 3 influencers got model previews, and that’s a single Orgoth Warjack.
One of them apparently doesn't have any files or sandpaper and did a 20min paintjob on the model. You would think they would send the first copies of models to good painters so the community can get an idea of their quality.
Well, in a way, that's par for the general Warmachine/Hordes community--the number of partially assembled, unpainted models I've seen played in games is the highest amongst the Warmachine crowd of any I've ever seen. Pretty much the only time I've seen fully painted is at Adepticon, and even there it felt like most folks went for the 3 color minimum.
Now, of course, I'm sweeping with a big brush there, and there are absolutely some great painters in the Warmachine community, but I think if you go back through lots of threads you'll see a similar observation for most areas.
But yeah, as Ghool pointed out earlier in the thread, their choices of who got the preview models seemed to be... interesting.
There used to be some amazing WMH painters at GenCon, but they're playing in the Iron Arena on the premium tables with specific scenarios because they meet the paint requirements to be able to play on those tables.
I'm beginning to thing that the limited previews and such were caused by PP only recently deciding to switch to 3d printing and, likely, it took them a lot longer to find a resin that they liked then they thought it would and didn't even have more then 1-2 printers a few weeks ago. They were probably waiting for 2 part resin to come down in price as well as general logistics which was clear by this spring that it wasn't happening any time soon and they decided to explore other options.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/02 00:38:09
I'm beginning to thing that the limited previews and such were caused by PP only recently deciding to switch to 3d printing and, likely, it took them a lot longer to find a resin that they liked then they thought it would and didn't even have more then 1-2 printers a few weeks ago. They were probably waiting for 2 part resin to come down in price as well as general logistics which was clear by this spring that it wasn't happening any time soon and they decided to explore other options.
Possibly. I wouldn't be surprised if their initial plan was to do in-house printing of the masters, then continue with the resin casting, and shifted gears when supply/cost started rearing its head. But, I'm sure if you ask them, they'll say they've been extensively testing this for a long time, just like they did Mk 3.
