Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:


We won't be getting everything in that list for the starter, however.

Yeah, that's been cleared up, that was entirely my fault in transcribing. Fixed it in the OP already.

Well I hope that we are finally getting proper "Assault" Intercessors.

Assault for Space Marine is done by nothing less then with wings of fire. You don't run, you fly over the foe and stomp them under the boot.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Strong indications that combat patrol forces will have different rules to those of the main game looking at the termagants, so might not be that simple.

That article today was harping on about how they used their 'game designer genius' to balance the combat patrols, so i guess that that 'genius' boils down to different datasheets with additional abilities and weapons for the patrols with bad units in them...

Based on how previous starter game modes were received, I'll be curious if the community adopts Combat Patrol as a game mode outside of GW's own stores.

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well I hope that we are finally getting proper "Assault" Intercessors.

Assault for Space Marine is done by nothing less then with wings of fire. You don't run, you fly over the foe and stomp them under the boot.

Assault Marines having the ability to remove their jump packs for over 30 years says otherwise.

 Asmodai wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Strong indications that combat patrol forces will have different rules to those of the main game looking at the termagants, so might not be that simple.

That article today was harping on about how they used their 'game designer genius' to balance the combat patrols, so i guess that that 'genius' boils down to different datasheets with additional abilities and weapons for the patrols with bad units in them...

Based on how previous starter game modes were received, I'll be curious if the community adopts Combat Patrol as a game mode outside of GW's own stores.

Poorly I'd wager but it might be a fun/good way to army hop or scratch an itch in a quick game etc. The only way it'll take off to the wider playerbase is if GW start encouraging formal events for CP.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well I hope that we are finally getting proper "Assault" Intercessors.

Assault for Space Marine is done by nothing less then with wings of fire. You don't run, you fly over the foe and stomp them under the boot.

Assault Marines having the ability to remove their jump packs for over 30 years says otherwise.

Just because you could doesn't mean you should. On wings of fire, baby!

Aash wrote:
Speculating about the starter box and the combat patrol game mode. Would be too sensible if the starter box contained two valid Combat Patrol forces, one for Space Marines and one for Tyranids.

After all it is a starter box and the Combat Patrol game mode is supposed to be for beginners.
Finally a starter box where the two included armies are balanced against each other?

You might be first one to want less models to the launch box rather than more Seeing price is only going to go UP that would make the launch box worse value than ever.

So in short: Bad idea.

(alternatively point costs of everything drops dramatically and we all need to buy more models to get 2k and board would be even more silly cramped)

Roll Three Dice wrote:
I agree - The focus on personalities and ‘Epic storylines’ tied to them seems completely at odds with what I always saw as the core appeal of 40k: Endless possibilities for making your own stories, because there isn’t one ‘main storyline’, and whatever happens, you will not be missed.

I completely agree. I liked it better when 40k was a setting within which stories are told, rather than a continually developing story.

BattleTech has a story. Things change. Nations rise and fall. Characters are killed, or get old and die. They have children. They grow up to be leaders or tyrants or cowards.

Meanwhile the Lion was asleep in the rock, Guillman was slowly healing in stasis, and Russ promised to return for the Wolf Time... but in the meantime, tell whatever story you want. I think things were better that way.

Especially as the continually developing story is just another way of keeping status quo with "I'll get you next time!".

How many times that black legion has now invaded Vigilus anyway? 3? 4? 5? Too repeative "story".

Looking at everything we've seen so far, here's a terrifying thought: What it Terminators come in units of 3 now (and, by extension, boxes of 3... for more than 5 cost right now, no doubt).

Consider the Teleport Attack in the trailer. 5 Terminators appear, but one of them is a Captain, and one of them is a Libby.

The others are a Sergeant, a SB/PF dude, and Mr. Assault Cannon.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Looking at everything we've seen so far, here's a terrifying thought: What it Terminators come in units of 3 now (and, by extension, boxes of 3... for more than 5 cost right now, no doubt).

Consider the Teleport Attack in the trailer. 5 Terminators appear, but one of them is a Captain, and one of them is a Libby.

The others are a Sergeant, a SB/PF dude, and Mr. Assault Cannon.

It's quite likely imo.

Well I could find it more likely its 3-10 and any starter set comes with 3 ETB variants but real set would be the standard 5.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Looking at everything we've seen so far, here's a terrifying thought: What it Terminators come in units of 3 now (and, by extension, boxes of 3... for more than 5 cost right now, no doubt).

Lol this would be the most GW move ever.

Just to check I haven't missed any new information on how morale will work have we, just that it is a LD stat,t it won't kill models and it's done in command phase?

Would it be completely crazy to think that the LD stat (8+ on gants) may not actually be sommething that is rolled against?

What if it is actually an indicator of how many models need to be in a unit before they are subject to morale issues?
ie. Once a gant unit goes below 8 models at the start of command phase they are subject to morale issues whatever they may be.
This would mean a lower stat is actually better and would encourage certain types of units to be larger and encourage hordes where appropriate.

I know it's probably wishful thinking, but it just makes no sense to me that the current system of models lost would work if it is done in command phase. Too much book keeping

Doohicky wrote:
Just to check I haven't missed any new information on how morale will work have we, just that it is a LD stat,t it won't kill models and it's done in command phase?

Would it be completely crazy to think that the LD stat (8+ on gants) may not actually be sommething that is rolled against?


What if it is actually an indicator of how many models need to be in a unit before they are subject to morale issues?
ie. Once a gant unit goes below 8 models at the start of command phase they are subject to morale issues whatever they may be.

Not completely crazy, but a threshold wouldn't be expressed as X+. It would just be X
It also guts smaller units, as they're starting closer to the threshold.

This would mean a lower stat is actually better and would encourage certain types of units to be larger and encourage hordes where appropriate.

Lower stat is better for stat checks as well (6+ is easier to roll on 2d6 than 8+). But your threshold system would encourage ALL units to be bigger, as bigger is farther away from the failed morale state.

Also, making it automatic and irreversible is a kick to player agency. Reach model threshold and you suck forever is pretty miserable.

I know it's probably wishful thinking, but it just makes no sense to me that the current system of models lost would work if it is done in command phase. Too much book keeping

It won't be the current system.
Since it happens in the command phase, easiest thing would be dice roll to operate normally for the turn (or game), despite the losses. Rallying, essentially.

A failed morale state can simply be 'can't hold objectives or take actions, can't move towards enemies and/or has a penalty on attacks (or half the number of attacks)'

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Roll Three Dice wrote:
I agree - The focus on personalities and ‘Epic storylines’ tied to them seems completely at odds with what I always saw as the core appeal of 40k: Endless possibilities for making your own stories, because there isn’t one ‘main storyline’, and whatever happens, you will not be missed.

I completely agree. I liked it better when 40k was a setting within which stories are told, rather than a continually developing story.

BattleTech has a story. Things change. Nations rise and fall. Characters are killed, or get old and die. They have children. They grow up to be leaders or tyrants or cowards.

Meanwhile the Lion was asleep in the rock, Guillman was slowly healing in stasis, and Russ promised to return for the Wolf Time... but in the meantime, tell whatever story you want. I think things were better that way.

I get what you're saying but from what we've been seeing since the end of 7th?

There's just more famous sectors in crisis. Before you had Cadia, Armageddon, Baal and what not.

Now you have Cadia, Armageddon, Baal, Pariah Nexus, Ultramar under DG attack, apparently Leviathan attacking the west and so on. These conflicts don't really get finished, they rather move on, they're just new frontlines. (Vigilus and Octarius were concluded I think, but the others not so much). The Psychic awakening didn't really change anything and I'm not really seeing these Archs do much of a change. So you can still do whatever you like as there won't be another Cicatrix opening anytime soon. And GW is very conservative, Magnus wasn't even allowed to finally wipe Fenris. GW merely wants to tell some "official stories" with their heroes (Apparently Abaddon and Guilliman most prominently), but it's not stopping you from telling yours as well, especially if you don't want to use named characters.

Do you think that every unit will have to roll morale in command phase no matter what?
That sounds really clunky to me.

I would expect there has to be some sort of trigger to it

Doohicky wrote:
Do you think that every unit will have to roll morale in command phase no matter what?
That sounds really clunky to me.

I would expect there has to be some sort of trigger to it

I imagine that the rolling starts when you're under fire, have taken casualties or are in charge range of the enemy at the earliest, since otherwise statistics would lead to untouched units of e.g. Terminators or other Elites running away randomly and without reason Unless of course it was set up in a way that at least starting rolls can not fail, which would also mean that you would not need to roll.

Doohicky wrote:
Do you think that every unit will have to roll morale in command phase no matter what?
That sounds really clunky to me.

I would expect there has to be some sort of trigger to it

Well, yeah. I wouldn't expect morale tests for no reason. That didn't even occur to me to explain.
Obvious thing would be 50% of starting (or current) squad size.


Psychic powers that can force a morale test in the next turn only would also be a likely design space.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Do you think that every unit will have to roll morale in command phase no matter what?
That sounds really clunky to me.

I would expect there has to be some sort of trigger to it

I imagine that the rolling starts when you're under fire, have taken casualties or are in charge range of the enemy at the earliest, since otherwise statistics would lead to untouched units of e.g. Terminators or other Elites running away randomly and without reason Unless of course it was set up in a way that at least starting rolls can not fail, which would also mean that you would not need to roll.

Marker on any unit that has taken any casualties at all would work.
Then on their morale phase remove marker and roll

USR are coming back. That's great, now everyone has the same rule instead of 101 special snowflake variations of the same rule.

Vehicle / Monster degradation getting streamlined. Also great.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
USR are coming back. That's great, now everyone has the same rule instead of 101 special snowflake variations of the same rule.

As long as the Codexes don't bring that back

Valrak says Russ is next? Nah, next primarch will be the Khan (I saw the road map, trust me).

The Khan has been chilling with the Warp Spider Phoenix Lord under like a staircase in the Webways. It was totally a "Just one hit, and then I gotta go" situation (Go watch the movie PCU). And then 10000 years go by and the Khan bursts back into reality in a puff of smoke (literally) and is like "Sh!t *cough* *cough*, What’s going on guys??"

And then the Eldar players will get new Warp Spider models or something.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Roll Three Dice wrote:
I agree - The focus on personalities and ‘Epic storylines’ tied to them seems completely at odds with what I always saw as the core appeal of 40k: Endless possibilities for making your own stories, because there isn’t one ‘main storyline’, and whatever happens, you will not be missed.

I completely agree. I liked it better when 40k was a setting within which stories are told, rather than a continually developing story.

BattleTech has a story. Things change. Nations rise and fall. Characters are killed, or get old and die. They have children. They grow up to be leaders or tyrants or cowards.

Meanwhile the Lion was asleep in the rock, Guillman was slowly healing in stasis, and Russ promised to return for the Wolf Time... but in the meantime, tell whatever story you want. I think things were better that way.

Yawn...

It was that way for 20 years. Stale. Time to actually deliver on some of this 5 minutes to midnight ragnarok stuff. I am happy they do something with the metaplot once in a great while.

Voss wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Do you think that every unit will have to roll morale in command phase no matter what?
That sounds really clunky to me.

I would expect there has to be some sort of trigger to it

Well, yeah. I wouldn't expect morale tests for no reason. That didn't even occur to me to explain.
Obvious thing would be 50% of starting (or current) squad size.


Psychic powers that can force a morale test in the next turn only would also be a likely design space.

This could be great for Night Lords. If they continue to have legion rules, that is.

Voss wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Do you think that every unit will have to roll morale in command phase no matter what?
That sounds really clunky to me.

I would expect there has to be some sort of trigger to it

Well, yeah. I wouldn't expect morale tests for no reason. That didn't even occur to me to explain.
Obvious thing would be 50% of starting (or current) squad size.


Psychic powers that can force a morale test in the next turn only would also be a likely design space.

Seems like 50% would be too much. A percentage on odd numbered squads is also sort of annoying. Maybe 25%.

Termagants have 8+ so 2D6 is only 40% to pass. It sounds like battleshock can accumulate too though so some counters will be involved.

I’d be happy for any unit that is below starting strength taking a morale test in the command phase, it all depends on what modifies the test, how easy it is to pass or fail and what the consequences of failing are.
Any unit below starting strength is easy to track.

Hate to say it but new terminators will be 3 to a box.

Boosykes wrote:
Hate to say it but new terminators will be 3 to a box.

lmao proof?

I'm fairly certain it'll be a 5 man box, based on the video alone it had s 5 man squad.