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I'm sure it's been pointed out earlier, but anyone think the reason they designed nothing but tanks and super-heavies for Horus Heresy so far was to get designs they can scale down for epic?

I kinda doubt it. The details don't scale down, and the tooling requirements would be different.

Depends of the material intended to use. People seem to assume that if Epic returns, it will mean mainly plastic. I don't see why it would be the case.

They could perfectly release resin and using 3D files scaling down with a few detail modification, and it can be used with minimal work.

Pilum wrote:
Just to stir the pot, let us not forget we've already had our first 'Epic' sized infantry(ish) model.

The poor wee pilots in the Grot Bommer's krooz missuls.

(Stretching? Yep. )

Yes I've been referencing those figures ever since the plane came out to little effect, here is a shot next to one of my gobblers, considering the relative pose sat down v crouched I feel confident that the figure scale will match modern "epic" figures no problem.

Sarouan wrote:
Depends of the material intended to use. People seem to assume that if Epic returns, it will mean mainly plastic. I don't see why it would be the case.

They could perfectly release resin and using 3D files scaling down with a few detail modification, and it can be used with minimal work.

Did you read their warlord titan rescale? Took about time of designing from scratch.

It"s not push button if you want to look good.

Requirement for 28mm and 6mm "bit" different.

Chris: The first step in debigulating* models is the simplest and most obvious – we rescale them. With models that were originally designed digitally, that’s really easy – I have a button for it on my computer! For older Titans, like the Reaver and the Warhound, it takes a bit more work.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/08/8th-aug-adeptus-titanicus-war-on-a-new-scalegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-1/

They do have a button!

tneva82 wrote:
Did you read their warlord titan rescale? Took about time of designing from scratch.

It"s not push button if you want to look good.

Requirement for 28mm and 6mm "bit" different.

Vorian wrote:

Chris: The first step in debigulating* models is the simplest and most obvious – we rescale them. With models that were originally designed digitally, that’s really easy – I have a button for it on my computer! For older Titans, like the Reaver and the Warhound, it takes a bit more work.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/08/8th-aug-adeptus-titanicus-war-on-a-new-scalegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-1/

They do have a button!

Yeah the most time-consuming designs were the 'analogue' Reaver and Warhound models from almost 20 years ago. The digital Warlord design likely wasn't originally intended for a small scale, so took a little bit of time to review which details to preserve or adjust.

However any digital models developed after ~2017 may well have been done with the smaller Epic scale in mind. The designer will have been always considering how well each detail would translate to 25% size, how it would be split up for a sprue, etc. That massively speeds up translating the kit later on.

I have no doubt that all of the new plastic HH vehicles were modelled with an intent to produce in both scales eventually. I also wouldn't be surprised if the new full size plastic Cerastus had some preparation design work done alongside the AT scale version, which is why it has shown up unexpectedly a year into the new game.

tneva82 wrote:

Did you read their warlord titan rescale? Took about time of designing from scratch.

It"s not push button if you want to look good.

Requirement for 28mm and 6mm "bit" different.

There's a difference between a titan and a vehicle the size of a land raider. The amount of details and need to cut it in separate parts for model building isn't the same. By the way, a lot of old Epic vehicles were made in one piece thanks to that.

I already did rescale 28mm scale vehicles to 6mm. It's not that a lot of work once you know how to render details / make sure some parts aren't too thin or brittle.

Sarouan wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Did you read their warlord titan rescale? Took about time of designing from scratch.

It"s not push button if you want to look good.

Requirement for 28mm and 6mm "bit" different.

There's a difference between a titan and a vehicle the size of a land raider. The amount of details and need to cut it in separate parts for model building isn't the same. By the way, a lot of old Epic vehicles were made in one piece thanks to that.

I already did rescale 28mm scale vehicles to 6mm. It's not that a lot of work once you know how to render details / make sure some parts aren't too thin or brittle.

The technology to do good-looking plastic Epic vehicles by casting stuff like turrrets and larger sponsons separately was definitely there even almost two decades ago; they did as much with the separate lance turrets for BFG hulls. The only thing that prevented them from doing so was the economic cost and their confused treatment of Specialist Games in general that defined that era, and 20 years of cost degression ought to do the trick for one of these problems.

Vorian wrote:

Chris: The first step in debigulating* models is the simplest and most obvious – we rescale them. With models that were originally designed digitally, that’s really easy – I have a button for it on my computer! For older Titans, like the Reaver and the Warhound, it takes a bit more work.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/08/8th-aug-adeptus-titanicus-war-on-a-new-scalegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-1/

They do have a button!

Yes. And then they needed to do more work. By the time they had 6mm warlord time spent was about what 28mm warlord took.

Then they had to design it for plastic sprues. AFTER having done 6mm warlord. Which was lot more than just press button. that starting point. Then comes work to make it work in 6mm. Details just aren't same in 28mm and 6mm. If you just scale down/upscale details vanish and look silly.

I think they made tanks for HH because they wanted to sell tanks to HH customers. Everything GW does and says doesn't lead back to a possible Epic game for which we have zero real information.

I'm surprised that we haven't gotten a follow-up teaser at least saying what the video is for

odinfellhammer wrote:
I'm surprised that we haven't gotten a follow-up teaser at least saying what the video is for

If they follow the same pattern as AT and AI we won’t see any more details until they’re 3-4 months away from release. I’d say we’re not likely to see anything more until August.

Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath for more details for a bit.

They might dribble some sort of teaser every month or so to keep speculation going, but as 20pence points out, substantive previews are a while away.

It would definitely help explain why there are so many 28mm scale HH vehicles appearing, which have left some in the community head-scratching, if the designs for both the large and small scale were done at the same time.

And big columns of tanks going at each other across a tabletop works a lot better at small scale than it does at large.

 Pacific wrote:
It would definitely help explain why there are so many 28mm scale HH vehicles appearing, which have left some in the community head-scratching, if the designs for both the large and small scale were done at the same time.

And big columns of tanks going at each other across a tabletop works a lot better at small scale than it does at large.

And a sponson redesign on the ones that remain in resin for the foreseeable future, to use an unified sponson sprue/system, which would coincidentally also involve standardizing stuff an touching up the models for the resin casts as well, which could also be a convenient time to do the port to another scale as well.

Are people legitimately arguing in here that whatever this is, it won't be at a small scale? The title of the teaser video was literally 'Battle on a New Scale', GW know exactly how people will interpret that and it's exactly how they want them to.

This is as stupid as those people who were arguing that TOW was going to be done at Warmaster style, when it was teased with square bases.

 Londinium wrote:
Are people legitimately arguing in here that whatever this is, won't be at a small scale? The title of the teaser video was literally 'Battle on a New Scale', GW know exactly how people will interpret that and it's exactly how they want them to.

This is as stupid as those people who were arguing that TOW was going to be done at Warmaster style, when it was teased with square bases.

We also do know that GW does keep their own product lines and products of licensees strictly separate at events and in their promotion (there are about 20 Warhammer-related computer games most tabletop wargamers have never heard of precisely because of that - note that these are not the same 20 games for everybody, the total number is probably more like 40) and barely ever mention them on their own website, so any suggestion that it could be a computer game or other digital product is pretty weak. It could be a HH boardgame, either a new one or a remake of one of their oldest games, but that would be pretty lame for a surprise teaser. And then again, we've had consistent Epic rumours that are distinct from the yearly Natfka/BoLS/SpikeyBits crap that makes the round since time immemorial for a while now.

 Pacific wrote:
It would definitely help explain why there are so many 28mm scale HH vehicles appearing, which have left some in the community head-scratching, if the designs for both the large and small scale were done at the same time.

And big columns of tanks going at each other across a tabletop works a lot better at small scale than it does at large.

Or small scale has no relevance on the release schedule for vehicles, but GW designed those kits to be highly modular and reuse a lot of sprues, and both give high margins and clear out a lot of resin SKUs from FW. The sponson swap was a case of having the sponson sprues which include new guns but are a cheaper to produce and easier to QA version of sponsons, so using them in resin vehicles they aren't swapping over to plastic fully yet saves casting time and increases margins on those kits.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
It would definitely help explain why there are so many 28mm scale HH vehicles appearing, which have left some in the community head-scratching, if the designs for both the large and small scale were done at the same time.

And big columns of tanks going at each other across a tabletop works a lot better at small scale than it does at large.

Or small scale has no relevance on the release schedule for vehicles, but GW designed those kits to be highly modular and reuse a lot of sprues, and both give high margins and clear out a lot of resin SKUs from FW. The sponson swap was a case of having the sponson sprues which include new guns but are a cheaper to produce and easier to QA version of sponsons, so using them in resin vehicles they aren't swapping over to plastic fully yet saves casting time and increases margins on those kits.

Yeah, I don't get this line of thought at all. Clearly 30K is the bigger fish here (pun intended), and marketing decisions for that game will be about that game. And those decisions aren't even hard to understand, as you laid out.

It would be amusing if they used the warmaster ruleset ala blitzkrieg commander

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
It would definitely help explain why there are so many 28mm scale HH vehicles appearing, which have left some in the community head-scratching, if the designs for both the large and small scale were done at the same time.

And big columns of tanks going at each other across a tabletop works a lot better at small scale than it does at large.

Or small scale has no relevance on the release schedule for vehicles, but GW designed those kits to be highly modular and reuse a lot of sprues, and both give high margins and clear out a lot of resin SKUs from FW. The sponson swap was a case of having the sponson sprues which include new guns but are a cheaper to produce and easier to QA version of sponsons, so using them in resin vehicles they aren't swapping over to plastic fully yet saves casting time and increases margins on those kits.

Yes, that is probably more likely!

Tapping out of this thread now until some more genuine news appears..

I wonder if those Markings in the Teaser are hints about what content we could get with the Starter Set.

Adeptus Astartes: The Horus Heresy.

...and it's compatible with it's sister game, Adeptus Titanicus: The Horus Heresy.

...many Bothans died to bring us this information. General Pacific, please...

For your interest:

Youtuber HobbyWaffle is now touting Epic rumours that got sent to him via Whatsapp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn-zCvKWY-w

To save you all the hassle of watching: these are just regurgitated faeit212 rumours we heard a while ago, specifically these ones: https://natfka.blogspot.com/2023/03/a-huge-epic-set-of-rumors.html (including weird phrasing and spelling errors, so pretty much 100% confirmed to come from here). And also these: https://natfka.blogspot.com/2023/05/the-future-of-epic-horus-heresy-plans.html

As with the other, contradictory faeit rumours, there's a very low probability of any of them being true, unfortunately.

I'm just mentioning them because i've seen these come up on B&C and want to prevent cross-forum posting that gives these rumours a legitimacy they don't deserve by removing them from their original source more and more

Well, I guess they are at least honest with their YouTube name.

 Pacific wrote:
Well, I guess they are at least honest with their YouTube name.

haha!



The Faeit site has been circulating the same (rubbish!) rumours for years and years, even if they are right this time no one should be patting them on the back for it! As much as I'd like to see Epic back, I'd like to see this being some one and done card-token board game for HH instead just to final remove any legitimacy from these so called 'rumour sites'.

If it does turn out to be epic, I think I'm just going to start my own awful rumour page. First rumour will be 'GW to release new models for some game in 2024'. Start cashing in on that ad revenue myself now!

Bolter & Chainsword so far have not gotten wise to it, can someone that has an account over there please tell them? I'm not getting another forums account

Completely random thought.

I’d be fine with Epic Models not being particularly detailed.

One of my many grumps about Epic 40K is the tried to cram way too much detail on to the tanks. Not only did many end up looking ridiculous, but also made quick and dirty paint jobs look bloody awful.

Now there is a happy medium between the plain look of the original stuff and the overdone Epic 40K of course. But I’d prefer the former. It also helps the game resemble a tactical hololith display rather than being played on the field. As ever not sure I explained that last bit very well.

I could not agree any more with that statement.

I always thought the game works better with a level of abstraction, and its encouraged by how much detail you can see (with the naked eye) on a 6/8mm that is several feet away from you.