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Kiiroitori wrote: But not everybody has terrain like that or is going to make it just to be appelaing
The models and thus an army take a fraction of the time to paint compared to regular 40k. That board is just a teddy bear fur mat with trees, shrubs, roads and cardboard buildings. None of that terrain was painted except for the dirt roads, which is just brown.
99% of 40k tables look terrible to begin with. Hell, even Warhammer STORES typically just have a gray table with minimal terrain. This image is taken from the wikipedia page, and even this table is more colorful than the typical one in a lgs or warhammer store...
Spoiler:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/28 20:50:16
100% agree. One of the great benefits of Epic always used to be how you could have these absolutely titanic battles (including titans!) at an affordable cost, and you could make it look good even with a token painting effort.
As a teenager.my friends and I used to play 20,000pt games over a weekend, 12ft of tabletop (a wallpapering table) with terrain from the core game and stuff we had made ourselves. It looked awesome and it was all done with pocket and paper-round money. Replicating that in 28mm, other than with one-off community games with a few loaded guys who could pay for the titans, was beyond the ken of any normal folk. And the irony was that the ruleset wasn't even as good.
The 6mm (or 6.35mm) scale also means you can use model railroad foliage for most of your terrain, and papercraft buildings are readily available or if you have a 3D printer even massive skyscrapers can fit on modest print beds. It's also easy to paint, store, and transport.
I do think however that for epic visual spectacle 8mm has a hell of a lot going for it, truly huge armies battling it out with all the massive toys in full place
Honestly, it's more about the vehicles and titan-sized war machines. The infantry in itself tends to be "blurry" when pictures are taken to the size of the battlefield. When you zoom on individual units can you really appreciate their details, but let's be honest ; that hardly happens in an Epic-sized battle.
At least with 28/32 mm, it's a bit more than color spots on the map.
Perhaps if you've zoomed out to take in the entire table.
I've seen Epic Armies from the old system with incredible amounts of detail when you zoom in on individual units.
Some incredible Titan bases for AT18 with some gorgeous detail as well.
There will certainly be folks who will appreciate (and paint!) all the detail that modern models can provide at 6/8mm.
Kiiroitori wrote: But not everybody has terrain like that or is going to make it just to be appelaing
What?!
Soooooo just like every other miniature based wargame ever made then, including 40k (which as others have pointed out have the dullest, most generic looking tables these days- especially within stores!)
I've seen Epic Armies from the old system with incredible amounts of detail when you zoom in on individual units.
Some incredible Titan bases for AT18 with some gorgeous detail as well.
There will certainly be folks who will appreciate (and paint!) all the detail that modern models can provide at 6/8mm.
Of course there will. There are already.
It's just that, at a game level, you rarely do zoom on infantry units to see details unless you specifically want to do it, because that's not the focus of this kind of game. In battle reports, to show the evolution, pictures are taken at a more global level - and infantries shows as color spots in these kind of pictures, because they're way too small to appreciate the painting.
Also, Epic level armies do mean an insane amount of infantry individual models to be painted. There will always be people to paint them with an insane amount of details for the pleasure of it, but let's be honest...it's more the exception than the rule. I tried to do that in my time...but when you have to paint 200+ 6/8mm infantry miniatures almost individually, it's often much more work than necessary for something you'll never truly appreciate in your games anyway. It's more a personnal satisfaction than anything else.
Once the Old World launches, then opportunites to see Mordheim, Man O'War and Warmaster return are more likely.
Warmaster is the most different from their usual fare. BFG and Mordheim have the highest return probabilities imho, everything set in 30k/40k has good chances to sell, and Mordheim can essentially live in the same niche as WarCry, i.e. semi-contained gang/warband boxes supported by beasts/mercenaries/dramatis personae sold separately, with the occasional box of Terrain. Not a very high risk to produce, especially if the models are useable in other games as well. Gorkamorka would need more design work to give it any appeal beyond beer&pretzels fun, and Warmaster is saddled with the double-whammy of being in a different scale and very different from what GW offers for games nowadays. Man O'War i could see, but only if BFG came before it and was succesfull. Dreadfleet seems to have aimed at the same niche, but was not really a wargame and largely forgettable. I think taking the general concept of Man O'War and putting it to work in AoS where there is more room for crazy stuff thematically and mechanically would work better than doing an old world remake of it.
There was talk that the studio was working on a Heresy-based version of BFG. I think it'd be a real mistake limiting it to Heresy factions, however.
If BFG is coming I would be surprised if there isn't at least some way to connect it to Epic for big campaigns and since that will only be HH for now I could see the same being true for BFG with both expanding to 40k together when they sell well enough, maybe even with Titanicus following too?
Not that I wouldn't want all factions directly at the start but I think its realistic if they only limit it to HH at first
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/30 16:31:54
I've seen Epic Armies from the old system with incredible amounts of detail when you zoom in on individual units.
Some incredible Titan bases for AT18 with some gorgeous detail as well.
There will certainly be folks who will appreciate (and paint!) all the detail that modern models can provide at 6/8mm.
Of course there will. There are already.
It's just that, at a game level, you rarely do zoom on infantry units to see details unless you specifically want to do it, because that's not the focus of this kind of game. In battle reports, to show the evolution, pictures are taken at a more global level - and infantries shows as color spots in these kind of pictures, because they're way too small to appreciate the painting.
Also, Epic level armies do mean an insane amount of infantry individual models to be painted. There will always be people to paint them with an insane amount of details for the pleasure of it, but let's be honest...it's more the exception than the rule. I tried to do that in my time...but when you have to paint 200+ 6/8mm infantry miniatures almost individually, it's often much more work than necessary for something you'll never truly appreciate in your games anyway. It's more a personnal satisfaction than anything else.
Contrast is a godsend for epic painting, especially things like marines.
kodos wrote: and like Necromunda and Kill Team, Warcry and Necromunda are very different games (same as HH and 40k)
and there is no guideline of "only 1 game per genre can exist"
Kill Team is to Warcry what Necromunda is to Mordheim
Indeed. Mordheim is much more campaign- and 'storygame'-oriented, with assumptions of a fixed gaming group or at least a circle of people all doing regular games with an ongoing 'metaplot' and advancement between them, while Killteam and WarCry are more oriented towards pick-up and single/tournament games. It's not impossible to do campaigns in these systems, but it's not their raison d'être.
