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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Same question to yourself.

Have you been to see the film?

While I can't speak for either of the two posters you asked this question, I myself have not seen it and, I have to say, it was incredible. Superlative in almost every way.

10/10. Looking forward to watching it, potentially, numerous times.

 Scrabb wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Same question to yourself.

Have you been to see the film?

While I can't speak for either of the two posters you asked this question, I myself have not seen it and, I have to say, it was incredible. Superlative in almost every way.

10/10. Looking forward to watching it, potentially, numerous times.

I'm genuinely curious what the point of this post was...

I was referencing the youtube clip from the message MDG quoted.

He is, as usual, playing forum cop against sentiments he disagrees with.

 Scrabb wrote:
I was referencing the youtube clip from the message MDG quoted.

He is, as usual, playing forum cop against sentiments he disagrees with.

Even as someone who likes Doc's rambling postings, I thought you made a witty contribution.

It was okay, but not great by any means...kinda where post-Endgame MCU has been mostly. Run to the ground and bit tired, but still some glimmers of old magic.

I haven't seen any of the Marvel shows, so initially I was bit out of loop about some things. First two-thirds of the movie were fine. Switching thing was quite funny and well done. "Singing planet" and "Cats" went into "So dumb it's funny" territory. Ending dragged the movie down, however. Very plain-by-numbers and underwhelming. Skrulls had shockingly small role. On the plus side, in the era of bloated blockbusters, this one was not overly long.

Performances...Larson was given bit more emotion to play with than the first movie. I don't think she is necessarily great actress, but she has undeniable presence on screen. Parris as Monica Rambeau felt somewhat of a weak link, by contrast. Any scene with action on it, she seemed awkward. I just didn't buy her as a superhero. Kamala was fine, but I found her family somewhat annoying.
Jackson was disappointing. This was easily the weakest Fury I have seen. Surely that was a Skrull, or then he's done with the role. They should have had some other character altogether there. Why not Brand??!

It's not the worst MCU movie ever, but really if this is the level they can reach, it would be probably best to let it die. They won't, of course.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
How did the Kree civil war result in their star dying?

Probalby the same way Scar killing Mufasa caused a drought in The Lion King.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
And if their star is dying, how does zapping it with marvel juice restart it?

Don't think about it. Just consume product and get excited for the next product.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
And if their star is dying, how does zapping it with marvel juice restart it?

Don't think about it. Just consume product and get excited for the next product.

I clapped when he said the line! VERY cool.

 Scrabb wrote:
I was referencing the youtube clip from the message MDG quoted.

He is, as usual, playing forum cop against sentiments he disagrees with.

Or, I’m seeking to find out if those who seem to dislike the film have, y’know, actually seen it.

Because if not? Their opinion is frankly worthless. If they have and they didn’t like it? Entirely fair enough.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Scrabb wrote:
I was referencing the youtube clip from the message MDG quoted.

He is, as usual, playing forum cop against sentiments he disagrees with.

Or, I’m seeking to find out if those who seem to dislike the film have, y’know, actually seen it.

Because if not? Their opinion is frankly worthless. If they have and they didn’t like it? Entirely fair enough.

That works on people not paying attention.

But the last few years every marvel movie reaction thread has featured people complaining about phase 4 and the direction the franchise is taking. Some people have gradually (or abruptly) stopped going to theaters to see the movies but are still invested in the MCU.

The Marvels is, by most accounts, standard post-Endgame MCU fare, with a forgettable villain and lighthearted fun. Marvel is a franchise. Their ads are usually a decent representation of what you'll get. You can very reasonably understand what you're committing to if you buy a ticket to The Marvels. That used to be part of the appeal of a MCU offering in the theater.

The Marvels has far fewer people going to see it than an MCU film normally enjoys. Negative commentary without seeing the film is entirely possible and valid, especially if anyone wanted to understand why people are staying home (although more of the people you'll want to get a handle on probably aren't saying anything about the Marvel's anywhere).

Because you're such an avid participator in geek media I know you know all this.

Opinions on why people stopped watching "X" franchise at the last film are valid but commenting directly on a film they haven't seen and have no intention of seeing is nonsense.

Frankly, anyone who bases their opinions on YouTubers or film critics without seeing the movie itself is a muppet and their opinion should be discounted.

I have no intention of watching The Marvels and if someone asks why it's because I'm not into superhero stuff anymore.
I don't know the plot, I don't know how the actors did, and I don't know what the visuals are like, because I haven't seen it and can't comment on it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Given audience scores, I don’t agree.

Actors promoting a film might account for 10% of box office.

Again, the lack of Larson, Paris and Vallani out on a red carpet isn't what sank this film.

do you think it's as low as that ? I'd suspect more if only because a flood of publicity reminds people a film is out, and trails for the chat show boost that even more

but i'd agree that it isn't the only reason this hasn't set the world on fire. 'Just Girls' shouldn't be a reason for folk not to see an action movie, but it probably does have a significant effect, but the lackluster phase 4 (and TV shows) is probably the biggest reason.

which is a shame as it seems to be a fun film

 Gert wrote:
Opinions on why people stopped watching "X" franchise at the last film are valid but commenting directly on a film they haven't seen and have no intention of seeing is nonsense.

Frankly, anyone who bases their opinions on YouTubers or film critics without seeing the movie itself is a muppet and their opinion should be discounted.

"But Teh Internet said it was bad..."

Youtubers have a business to run, and they know what their audiences want to hear. They (most of them, anyway) are no more partial than some paid lobbyist, or the film industry itself.

 Gert wrote:
Opinions on why people stopped watching "X" franchise at the last film are valid but commenting directly on a film they haven't seen and have no intention of seeing is nonsense.

Frankly, anyone who bases their opinions on YouTubers or film critics without seeing the movie itself is a muppet and their opinion should be discounted.

I have no intention of watching The Marvels and if someone asks why it's because I'm not into superhero stuff anymore.
I don't know the plot, I don't know how the actors did, and I don't know what the visuals are like, because I haven't seen it and can't comment on it.

Pretty much this.

If you don’t want to see a given movie? You don’t want to see a given movie. No further justification or explanation required.

But when folks are saying it’s bad, and haven’t, y’know, actually seen it? That is a genuinely worthless opinion.

It’s not even just people saying it’s bad without seeing it, the the ones celebrating its apparent failure.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Scrabb wrote:
I was referencing the youtube clip from the message MDG quoted.

He is, as usual, playing forum cop against sentiments he disagrees with.

Or, I’m seeking to find out if those who seem to dislike the film have, y’know, actually seen it.

Because if not? Their opinion is frankly worthless. If they have and they didn’t like it? Entirely fair enough.

Haven't seen it and therefore have no opinion on the film. I just found it funny that Marvel posted The Meowvels video and maybe they were wondering if it would have done better in the theaters than The Marvels has done so far.

 Ghaz wrote:

Haven't seen it and therefore have no opinion on the film. I just found it funny that Marvel posted The Meowvels video and maybe they were wondering if it would have done better in the theaters than The Marvels has done so far.

The Youtube ad revenue will probably make it more profitable than the actual movie is.

The movie is losing 100 million dollars or more, so yeah. Unless they’re buying kittens overnight shipped from Australia, it couldn’t be less profitable.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The movie is losing 100 million dollars or more, so yeah. Unless they’re buying kittens overnight shipped from Australia, it couldn’t be less profitable.

Real losses or Hollywood Accounting losses?

Because, gentle reminder, there's a load of stuff done to make it so even profitable films appear to be unprofitable

Well, real losses in theatrical release. There are often additional profit streams that can make a movie profitable, such as merchandise and home video sales…although neither of those have been healthy money makers in more than a decade. The death of these alternate streams of income is a big factor in studios being much more risk adverse. There’s a YouTuber named Dan Murrell who talks about the box office every week, with charts to show how much of the ticket sales from each region goes towards the movie, and how much they need to make to cover their reported budgets. He hasn’t gotten around to The Marvels yet, but he covered all the big summer flops, and it was eye opening.


Anyway, we went to see the Marvels yesterday and we really enjoyed it. The closest comparison to jump to mind is the Buffy episode The Zeppo, which also has an under-developed world-being villain used as just “another apocalypse” backdrop to a story about Xander finding his own personal groove. I love that episode because it is funny and unconventional and makes light of what most episodes take seriously—but apparently lots of fans hate it.

Ah, so Hollywood Accounting it is then.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Scrabb wrote:
I was referencing the youtube clip from the message MDG quoted.

He is, as usual, playing forum cop against sentiments he disagrees with.

Or, I’m seeking to find out if those who seem to dislike the film have, y’know, actually seen it.

Because if not? Their opinion is frankly worthless. If they have and they didn’t like it? Entirely fair enough.

Are you saying that you've never, for instance, crapped on a DC film that you haven't seen? Because it feels like you've done a fair amount of that, but maybe you actually buy tickets to a lot of them.

I’ve seen every DC film up to but not including The Flash. No, tell a lie. Everything up to but not including Black Adam.

Typically I wait until they’re freebies on Amazon Prime, as whilst pretty skeptical of them, I’m willing to challenge preconceptions.

Snyder Cut I did a month’s subscription and pissed four hours of my life up the wall watching it on release day.


The Flash I’m just not gonna watch.

Blue Beetle I’ll await a freebie. Aquaman 2 I may just avoid in general, as I didn’t enjoy the first one.


Ones I enjoyed?

The Batman was surprisingly good. Joker was a satisfyingly different take. The Suicide Squad is silly enough for me. Birds of Prey was also fun.

Bad cgi aside, Flash wasn’t too bad.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because, gentle reminder, there's a load of stuff done to make it so even profitable films appear to be unprofitable

They won't need to cook the books to make this film unprofitable. It's going to do that all on its own.

It's dropped out of the top 5 in its third week, falling a further 37% compared to last week.

Assuming a 35% drop off each week from now until it finishes its run, it won't even hit $100m domestically (assuming consistent 35% drops it wouldn't even hit $100m a year from now if it stayed in cinemas!).

To quote Vision: "It's as I said. Catastrophe."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
To quote Vision: "It's as I said. Catastrophe."

Would have been purrfect if you had spelled it cat-tastrophe.

Not that I abide speaking ill of our feline overlords, mind.

Voss wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Definitely nothing new; I've just been taken aback by how concentrated its been for this film. It's also just something I've been trying to step away from. Spend more time enjoying things for myself than being fed hot takes of how I'm supposed to feel.

You're never 'fed' hot takes. You have to actively go watch them. Unless you have a serious virus on your computer, screaming idiot videos aren't going to autoplay when you sit down at it.

Social feeds are absolutely loaded with clickbait headlines. I don't actually watch the videos; I'm speaking merely on the titles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:

Are you saying that you've never, for instance, crapped on a DC film that you haven't seen? Because it feels like you've done a fair amount of that, but maybe you actually buy tickets to a lot of them.

I for sure have and have definitely tried to step away from doing so. I THINK I've largely avoided talking about Flash outside of filling in some comic knowledge for friends. Something to try and be mindful about for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On that note, I have finally seen The Marvels and overall, its fun. One of the better post Endgame films, probably similar to Multiverse or Wakanda Forever but not as good as No Way Home or Guardians 3.

What does stand out throughout the film is that its definitely hampered by the issue with Marvel production as a whole. This movie fits very cleanly into the plans of.... 2021... 2022 at the latest. It feels like this was supposed to release hot on the heels of Far From Home or Wandavision and its delay definitely impacted the ability to build into it the way most Marvel films do.

It's also pretty obvious the reliance on D+ series to branch stories hurts. There's more clunky exposition here explaining Kamala and Monica's prior events than most of the MCU combined. I also can't shake the feeling that there was supposed to be more of a Multiverse reveal here; with the jump hexes and Wanda's hexes being tied closer. It's almost like everything is shuffled out of order. I can see this film without Kamala ending with her receiving the bangle. It's like putting a puzzle together wrong then finding the missing piece.

All that said, what we've got here is a breezy fun film. Brie gets so much more to do than the original film and Iman is as adorkable as ever, though not all of her lines quite land. Teyonah probably gets the worst treatment of the 3 being regulated to a lot of backstory and mechanical info dumps. I feel like we don't get quite enough time with either co-lead to fully play out their arc but their arcs are a lot stronger than a lot of recent films overall.

The plot is.... well, its hard not to notice the Spaceballs influence, but its stronger than expected. There's some really odd leaps of logic like the Skrull king thinking the peace talks were going well immediately after being told his planet would be destroyed by the their oppressors. I guess they get citizenship maybe? The Kree are really just far too complex for the film.

The movie definitely shines in its individual moments. The trio's bonding on Carol's ship are all great, the Disney planet is fantastic, even if they don't commit to the bit as much as I'd like and Fury's subplot is legitimately one of the funniest bits Marvel has done in a while and definitely a better follow up than Secret Invasion. The quantum switching feels like a well expored gimmick though doesn't come into play as much in the end as it probably should.

Overall glad I saw it. Solidly mid-tier but a film I would have liked more of as opposed to a lot of recent entries that felt mid tier and overlong.

It looks like the Marvel problem may be more of a Disney problem, via Variety:

“Wish” misfired in its opening weekend, extending Disney‘s bleak box office fortunes.

The animated musical fable, about the Wishing Star that so many Disney characters have wished upon over the studio’s century-long history, failed to become the de facto choice for families around Thanksgiving. “Wish” opened in third place with a dull $31.7 million over the five-day holiday, a far cry from Disney’s past Turkey Day feasts.

Non-Disney films like Fast X, The Flash, Bkue Beetle, Black Adam, Mission Impossible, and The Creator all bombed, too. It’s not just a Disney problem but a cinema problem. If not for Super Mario Bros and Barbenheimer, box office would be back at pandemic lows.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Non-Disney films like Fast X, The Flash, Bkue Beetle, Black Adam, Mission Impossible, and The Creator all bombed, too. It’s not just a Disney problem but a cinema problem. If not for Super Mario Bros and Barbenheimer, box office would be back at pandemic lows.

Maybe. We'll see how Godzilla Minus One does this weekend.

I’m more curious how Aquaman 2 will do. It’s a sequel to a $billion+ grosser that’s part of shared universe, like The Marvels. However, I haven’t seen the same kind of hate-boner for it that I have for The Flash and The Marvels. Feels like anything could happen.


For Godzilla, is it an American release of a Toho movie? It’s not an American production, right? If so, I’d expect it to make roughly Dragon Ball Super Hero numbers…and yet to be profitable.