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Allways seen DE armies run a standard 3x rav list unless they are going fluffy (wych cult, cult of skin etc) however, i rarely see these or voidravens taken.
Granted the bomber has no model as of this point in time, but both seem like pretty decent choices.

Clearly the ravs are alot cheaper on points.
But there are some benefits.

Neither are open topped, so no lucky glance kill straight away.

Both have a multi-role function, rather than simply anti-tank.
Infact, the bomber has one of the best anti-tank weapons in the book. (2 S9 lances? yes please)

Both also have access to missiles, which cater for all types of troop.
Granted implosion missiles are expensive, but AP2 blast, and then a character test on wounds? things like draigostar armies cry against it.

Im just wondering what the main drawback with them is, since on paper, they both seem to have a pretty good use.

Cost. Voidravens cheaper and deadly as hell, but 155 pts for an av 11 vehicle before upgrades is too much when you consider it goes up exponentially when you buy missiles. Razorwings are only av 10, so go down to a stiff breeze.

Ill be testing one soon tho

I use Razorwings for the intended use- totally fething over one infantry unit...

Disintegrators, Splinter cannon and regular missiles...

DS/Zoom on- nuke unit with all 4 missiles and all guns blazing and then try to survive afterwards, secure in the knowledge that you just killed more points than the fighter was worth... Often it will be ingnored when the missiles are gone, which is a mistake

I've taken out deathstar units with those gorgeous planes before, and loved the look on the other guy's face..

Voidravens i use less often, but they're ok.

Basically their main drawback is that they compete with Ravagers.

They're still (largely) good units, but the Ravager is simply better. And cheaper...
If you run them, I'd recommend doing so at 2:1 Ravager-to-flier ratio; so 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing/Voidraven.

Jackal wrote:Allways seen DE armies run a standard 3x rav list unless they are going fluffy (wych cult, cult of skin etc) however, i rarely see these or voidravens taken.
Granted the bomber has no model as of this point in time, but both seem like pretty decent choices.

Clearly the ravs are alot cheaper on points.
But there are some benefits.

Neither are open topped, so no lucky glance kill straight away.

Both have a multi-role function, rather than simply anti-tank.
Infact, the bomber has one of the best anti-tank weapons in the book. (2 S9 lances? yes please)

Both also have access to missiles, which cater for all types of troop.
Granted implosion missiles are expensive, but AP2 blast, and then a character test on wounds? things like draigostar armies cry against it.

Im just wondering what the main drawback with them is, since on paper, they both seem to have a pretty good use.

The void raven isnt very good. It is worse than a ravager at AT for modestly more survivability.

The razorwing is great at anti infantry, but most DE lists need more long range AT not more anti infantry.

I'd say points cost limits their effectiveness. Ravagers are cheap thus more common.

The Razorwing's dual role is actually a Con in many case. If your anti-tank and your anti-infantry are the same unit, they can only do 1 thing at a time, meaning there's a turn where you have Dark Lances shooting infantry.

The missiles on the Razorwing are fantastic, but as Exergy said, DE need more anti-tank, not more anti-infantry

Personally, i run 2 Razorwings for that really hard hitting 1st turn/alpha strike against anything that isn't mech-ed up.

As for the voidraven, it's pts cost again. the S9 lances will glance or better 4/9ths of the time vs the ravagers 2 S8 lances glancing or better 3/9ths of the time. The ravager gets 3 shots so you're glancing or better on average vs the void ravens 2 shots glancing or better 8/9ths of the time on average.

So it's pretty much a wash in terms of effectiveness but the large jump in pts for not being open-topped and being supersonic make it the 4th heavy choice (behind ravagers, razorwings and taloi (out of webway portals))

Ascalam wrote:I use Razorwings for the intended use- totally fething over one infantry unit...

Disintegrators, Splinter cannon and regular missiles...

DS/Zoom on- nuke unit with all 4 missiles and all guns blazing and then try to survive afterwards, secure in the knowledge that you just killed more points than the fighter was worth... Often it will be ingnored when the missiles are gone, which is a mistake

I've taken out deathstar units with those gorgeous planes before, and loved the look on the other guy's face..

Voidravens i use less often, but they're ok.

I pretty much use my razorwing like this, its fun and works pretty well.

I've have this discussion with my friend and we have reached the same conclusion: the Voidravens s9 lances are awesome... until you look at the pricetag. As stated above a raven is almost more than half the cost of a ravager. And that's before you include the things you want like missles. It's just not points efficient.

The razorwing however is actually very good. Just at a role that's not that valued this edition... which is a total shame. The model is sexy (and surprisingly simple to put together) and it can not get any better at its role outside of its missiles being ap2 and ignoring cover.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:I've have this discussion with my friend and we have reached the same conclusion: the Voidravens s9 lances are awesome... until you look at the pricetag. As stated above a raven is almost more than half the cost of a ravager. And that's before you include the things you want like missles. It's just not points efficient.

The razorwing however is actually very good. Just at a role that's not that valued this edition... which is a total shame. The model is sexy (and surprisingly simple to put together) and it can not get any better at its role outside of its missiles being ap2 and ignoring cover.

3 str 8 dark lances is always better or equal to 2 Str 9 void lances, but the raven costs so much more.


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chelsea_hollywood wrote:I'd say points cost limits their effectiveness. Ravagers are cheap thus more common.

The Razorwing's dual role is actually a Con in many case. If your anti-tank and your anti-infantry are the same unit, they can only do 1 thing at a time, meaning there's a turn where you have Dark Lances shooting infantry.

The missiles on the Razorwing are fantastic, but as Exergy said, DE need more anti-tank, not more anti-infantry

The Razorwing can be taken with 2 disintigrators, a splinter cannon and it's missiles in which case it is pure anti infantry.

Well. I have 3 Razorwings and I want to use them - instead of the Ravagers. Its clear that then the army needs more dark light shots elsewhere, say from Raiders and Trueborn.

Razorwings are great for anti-horde. Their favorite targets are orks, blob squads, and scarabs. Once they have released their payload, they can switch to anti-tank or anti-elite roll with their main guns. Also harder to kill than a ravager, as the difference between AV10 and AV11 is marginal, but the razorwing is closed top.

Ravagers are pure anti-tank. They are also fairly cheap.

Voidravens are closed-topped ravagers which are more vulnerable to "weapon destroyed" results. They lack the dual-purpose role of the razorwing unless they pay for the missiles.

I personally prefer 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing. The Razorwing can either anti-tank, or anti-infantry as needed, and helps with those really large units.

VoidRaven Bombers were fantastic in my test games. i often Deepstruck them. their special rule lets them fire everything when they do it and they can get superior position in games. Enemy anti-tank is less powerful in later rounds (a key reason to reserve them)giving it more staying power. You can also just have it move 36" from the board edge to drop its voidmine, but the thing about that is, it's the only weapon you can fire if you do. So Deep Striking it was actually a little better in my opinion.

Those who haven't got the stones to deep strike very often may just want to normal reserve them.

The Mine that it drops which has been FAQ'd is pretty awesome. You unload on the round you come in and then scream across the table to drop the mine if your Void Lances get torn off or there is just a nice target available.

The mental visuals for this unit are just awesome.

Going to have to sing the praises of the Razorwing. Just finished a casual, 4-round tourney, where it killed:

-4 Bloodcruchers
-2 Obliterators
-8 Chaos Marines
-2x Stormraven Gunships
-20-ish PAGK (12 in one salvo!)

Grey Knight kills are over two games. These are merely what I remember, so there may be a couple other results I missed.

Thing with the Razorwing is, it is a slightly inferior anti-tank platform (Relative to the ravager) which can kill any infantry unit in huge volumes in the turn that it fires everything.

Razorwing Jetfighter is a good choice. The biggest thing is as said, you need AT, so I don't think more than 1 should really be used.

Awesomely so, as a matter of fact; the Razorwing is an improbably good anti-infantry choice. Most of the time you aren't going to be facing massed infantry, though, so it's worth taking Dark Lances to pop transports; you've got what is essentially a faster and more maneuverable Ravager that sacrifices one Dark Lance for a supply of anti-infantry missiles at +40pts.

Void Raven is a dangerous anti-tank unit, I'm somewhat skeptical of the utility of the Void Mine (it requires you to get up close, sacrificing your ability to use a nightmarishly fast movement speed, long range, and Night Shields to avoid virtually all incoming fire) but I believe it has it's uses.

I love the models. I take my 3 Ravagers wherever the DE army go.

My HS slots are the first things filled =]

i have used both fliers and love them. i think if you take them it should be 3 of one version. have all your heavys doing the same thing. of course the cost for those missiles makes things interesting, and i generally go with stock misiles.

Well, frankly, I absolutely like the Razorwing model. My DE army always fields three Razorwings. Its clear that more dark lances are needed elsewhere in the army.

Tested a razorwing this weekend (report up in the br forum). Loved it! Necrotoxin missiles put out a stupid amount of wounds.

Just Dave wrote:Basically their main drawback is that they compete with Ravagers.

They're still (largely) good units, but the Ravager is simply better. And cheaper...
If you run them, I'd recommend doing so at 2:1 Ravager-to-flier ratio; so 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing/Voidraven.

This is what I do. It works well

Razorwings: The pros are pretty obvious, yes you can make it be a dual threat but when you go with dissies over DL then you become a true terror to infantry. The downside however is that with a venomspam list you don't need more anti-infantry you need the AT that a ravager provides.

Voidravens: Ok I actually like the things since Sgt Bobby can't use his bolt pistol of doom and shoot it down. I've also always struggled killing LRs except if I use the void lance. Now it's downside is it is expensive. 6th will probably see it be really nasty, but until then ravagers tend to be a little better.

As a side note though I ran 2 razorwings and a single voidraven for a while and they worked out nicely since they aren't open-topped but they weren't as great.

Now in games of Apoc we count them as flyers at which point they become amazing and are nasty. Especially if they have the NS (yes I like the NS over the flicker on a flyer) since they have the 4+ cover and reduce enemy ranges by 18" at that point.

I'm contemplating buying a Razorwing to replace a ravager because i dislike spamming the same unit again and again...and because it just looks awesome.

I don't quite get how the missiles work, however. How many can you shoot a turn? and how do you determine the 'facing' they have on the craft to determine the arc of fire?

If I ever play DE I will buy three Razorwing/Bomber thingys. I like the strength 9 darklances, but more than that, I just think they look cool.

Sephyr wrote:I'm contemplating buying a Razorwing to replace a ravager because i dislike spamming the same unit again and again...and because it just looks awesome.

I don't quite get how the missiles work, however. How many can you shoot a turn? and how do you determine the 'facing' they have on the craft to determine the arc of fire?

1. All of them. A Razorwing has the Supersonic rule, allowing it to fire all of its weapons when moving up to 12"

2. I would draw a rough circle using the wings to determine the curve, then quarter it accordingly.

I love the RW model, but I never can seem to find the points to field it. If it was a FA slot, I am sure that you would see it FAR more often in lists...

After asking a while ago i got a game in against a kanwall army yesterday.
I decided to run my usual list but lighter on wyches, and with 3 razorwings with toxins instead of my ravs.

Needless to say, the 5+ coversave from the mek really didnt help all that much.
1st turn lances dropped 5 kans and after that the missiles took over on the boyz.

Got to say, this is the 1st game i have ever tabled a green tide army before the turns ran out.
The sheer anti-infantry fire power is amazing.

I may start keeping all 3 from now on in my list.
Ill simply tweak it a bit and run lanceborn in venoms to make up for the loss of lances.

VoidRaven Bombers are ruthless and while 3 seems a little crazy, I'd go as far as two if i didn't like my opponent very much. =)

sadly you're only able to fire 2 missiles a turn, and those count as 2 weapons fired but because of supersonic special rule you're also able to fire both dark lances and either both splinter rifles or the cannon (depends on if you upgraded). The only thing that's nice about the void raven is it's ability to drop it's mine when turbo boosting off the board on it's second or third turn of play, otherwise, meh. Also what's people's opinions on missiles, Shatterfield or Necrotoxin?

Shatterfield because it hurts vehicles aswell as being re-rollable and gwenerally wounds on a 2 anyways.

Just another point that I don't think people have brought up, with respect to the razorwing/voidraven is the use against fliers.

So if you look at your area, do you face a lot of fliers, if you do, #1 Option: Aegis + Quad Gun
#2 Option: Razorwing/Voidraven

Personally, I do field 1 Razorwing with this in mind. I don't bother upgrading (in my current list, nothing gets significant upgrades) the Razorwing as after it drops its default missles, it very well is dead. Between, the Quad Gun and the Razorwing it’s enough anti-flier to cover a lot of players. While I do like the Ravager it is not very good at anti-flier and depending on your local area may be an important consideration.