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So, with the release of the Space Marine codex with their super cool Chapter tactics (Along with the release of the forge world version of the same theme) I was kicking these ideas around in my head.
I'm not sold on all of these but I've been playing Sisters since around 3rd and have researched them as well as you can. Each of the major orders had a defining history that shaped their theme and style of play. Much like the Marines.

I figured these represent the Holy orders pretty well while giving them an equal level of power boost ala Marines. Let me know what you think.

Do they go with their themes? Are they all roughly in line with each other in terms of power? Ect. Thanks.

First draft



SECOND DRAFT:

Ebon Chalice: I'm not 100% sure what to do here, I think these abilities represent a more well rounded approach to it without just ripping off Space Marines
Unchanging, unyielding: One unit per turn may re-roll a failed 'Act of Faith' test.
Faith and Fire: All Battle Sisters squads may use their 'Act of Faith' twice per game.

Argent shroud: Based on your comments I think this makes more sense, more faithful. They do seem to like Seraphim though, from what I read, and the new rule makes their entrances edge closer to heroic/suicidal
Faith unites: When taking an 'Act of Faith' test all units count their LD as being 1 higher. Max 10.
Plunging fire: On the turn they arrive from Deep strike Seraphim count all their shooting attacks as having the 'Pinning' special rule. Additionally, on the same turn their flamer based attacks gain 'Soul Blaze.'

Martyred lady: The theme of self sacrifice and heroic defiance is fun. This is an army that would definitely hold it's ground and get tougher to clear as the game went on
Determination: All units at or below half their starting strength may re-roll failed 'Shield of Faith' saves
Hammer and Anvil: All units gain the 'Stubborn' special rule.

Valorous heart: Repentia needed a boost, I think being able to get there sooner would help. Also, 'Crusader' will push them more towards a foot horde list which is a good look for Sisters.
Atonement: Repentia that don't purchase and/or start the game in a transport gain the 'Scout' special rule
Redemptive crusade: All units gain the 'Crusader' special rule.

Bloody rose: So the speed element was good and I still think the Dominions needed a boost here. I hope 'Preferred enemy' works better for them. Hopefully it doesn't make them too strong.
Mounted assault: All units that deployed in either Rhinos or Immolator's gain the 'Scout' special rule.
Blood red sky: Dominions gain the 'Preferred enemy' special rule

Sacred rose: Same I agree with you here, I think I got this one right on the first try.
Rain of fire: Retributors gain the 'Slow and purposeful' special rule
[b]Holy discipline: All units without the 'Fearless' special rule never have to take panic checks from shooting attacks.

The Sisters rules have some pretty big problems, but that said, I think these rules are interesting and could make a fine addition to the Sisters.

The only rule I take issue with is Plunging Fire; Seraphim already have twin-linked ranged attacks and Rending isn't a big help this edition, I'd suggest giving them the ability to reroll 1s to wound instead.

 Celtic Strike wrote:

Do they go with their themes? Are they all roughly in line with each other in terms of power? Ect. Thanks.

Hi! That´s a really good idea. Here are my two cents:

Argent shroud:
Holy wings: Seraphim arriving from Deep strike only scatter D6 inches
Plunging fire: On the turn they arrive from Deep strike Seraphim count all their shooting attacks as being twin-linked and have the 'Rending' special rule.

Official description: Even within the Orders, they are renowned by their faith. Altruism, selfless heroism.
Suggested theme: faith. Or Heroism. Blessed?
This is were I would put the "Unchanging, unyielding" rule you gave to the Ebon Chalice. Or something similar, faith-related. Re-roll acts of faith?
The second rule is close to the Act of Faith Seraphims have/had. I would give them a buff by adding a USR instead. Otherwise it will generate problems with a reworked AoF system.

Our Martyred lady: Theme: Recovery from loss, Determination

The Order has determination beyond even their fellow Sisters of the other orders,
forever driven to avenge the death of Katherine and their Sisters who fall in battle.
To their enemies, they are not known for mercy, but instead for thorough and utter destructiveness.

Extermination: All units gain 'Preferred enemy: Orks'
Determination: All units gain the 'Stubborn' special rule

Official description: “Incredible determination, inspired by the desire to avenge the death of their fallen”. OK theme, "Martyrdom" is another option
I would grant them something like the old Martyrdom rule: killing some of them somehow bolsters the rest. Perhaps an advantage to units who have taken casualties.
What about the Rampage USR?

Valorous heart: Theme: Redemption

Like their patron saint, the Order is highly penitent, always striving for atonement for even the slightest perceived sin.
A disproportionate number of Sisters in this Order exile themselves to the Sisters Repentia compared to the other Major Orders.

Atonement: Repentia count as Scoring units.
Sisters of Sanctorum: All units at or below half of their starting strength may re-roll failed 'Shield of Faith' saves.

OK theme.
I wouldn´t make the Repentia scoring. They do not hold objectives, they run from one point to another. I would however give Repentia some buff, or perhaps just increase their numbers.
The Sisters of Sanctorum rule sounds better for Our Martyred Lady.
Do you know the first rules for Repentia? They were truly cool: it was a single model, attached to any unit. When the unit retreated, the Repentia kept the enemy unit engaged in combat. If the model somehow survived that, she granted big faith buffs to any unit she joined.

Bloody rose: Theme: Swift, brutal assaults

The Order is well known for their conviction to bring a swift end to their enemies similar to their patron saint.
Consequently, Dominion Squads of the Bloody Rose are of particular renown,
where their mission and the Order's convictions coalesce to make for ferocious assaults by these squads.

Mounted assault: All units that deployed in either Rhinos or Immolator's gain the 'Scout' special rule.
Blood red strike: Dominions may re-roll failed 'Acts of faith' tests

OK theme. Liked the "Mounted Assault" rule.
Why the "Blood red strike" rule? Dominions are better, that´s all. I would grant them some "physical" buff, not extra-faith.

Sacred Rose: Theme: Slow, Heavy attack

The order strives to emulate their patron saint and her virtues of discipline, even-temperament, and resolute determination.
This resolve to stay calm in battle has particularly benefited Retributor Squads, who use her as a role model to avoid doubt and
rash action while wielding their heavy weapons.

Rain of fire: Retributors gain the 'Slow and purposeful' special rule
Holy discipline: All units without the 'Fearless' special rule never have to take panic checks from shooting attacks.

Ok theme.
Ok everything. This one is the one I liked the most.

I left the one I disliked the most until now:

Ebon Chalice: Theme: Alliance
The Order of the Ebon Chalice represents the original and oldest Order Militant.
The direct continuation of the original founding as the Daughters of the Emperor, with combat and religious doctrine,
like their uniforms, unchanged for four thousand years.

Oldest and wisest: Battle brothers with Space Marines and/or Space wolves
Unchanging, unyielding: When taking an 'Act of Faith' test count their LD as being 1 higher. Max 10.

Official description: "Their combat doctrines formed on equal parts religious devotion and training have remained largely unchanged for four thousand years."
Why Alliance? Sisters are supposed to be wary of Marines. And they are in charge of taking them down if they go heretic. And.... Space Wolves????. They tried to exterminate them after branding them heretics, mutants and traitors. They have been at war. I know this is a controversial point for some players, but you are stomping the background here.
I think the second rule does not fit: the Ebon Chalice is not the most faithful of the Orders. They are "traditional". The Argent Shroud sounds better for this rule.
I would give them general advantages, similar to Ultramarines Chapter Tactics. And the theme would be "Tradition", or "the old ways"

Where is the Order of the Ermine Mantle? They are not one of the six big Orders, but they are still far bigger than any Minor Order. They have a politics and diplomacy trait that would fits the "Alliance" theme, allowing them to ally with any Imperial force, even the Wolves. Their leader (currently missing) is a High Lord of Terra, no less.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Sisters rules have some pretty big problems, but that said, I think these rules are interesting and could make a fine addition to the Sisters.

The only rule I take issue with is Plunging Fire; Seraphim already have twin-linked ranged attacks and Rending isn't a big help this edition, I'd suggest giving them the ability to reroll 1s to wound instead.

Seraphim have Shred, which is a re-roll to wound, not hit. Which is super useful for their flamers but not as good for their pistols


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, I thought about this today and I think I came up with some cool stuff. Thanks for the help Da001 here's the updated list with some explanations to the changes if I made them.

Ebon Chalice: I'm not 100% sure what to do here, I think these abilities represent a more well rounded approach to it without just ripping off Space Marines
Unchanging, unyielding: One unit per turn may re-roll a failed 'Act of Faith' test.
Faith and Fire: All Battle Sisters squads may use their 'Act of Faith' twice per game.

Argent shroud: Based on your comments I think this makes more sense, more faithful. They do seem to like Seraphim though, from what I read, and the new rule makes their entrances edge closer to heroic/suicidal
Faith unites: When taking an 'Act of Faith' test count their LD as being 1 higher. Max 10.
Plunging fire: On the turn they arrive from Deep strike Seraphim count all their shooting attacks as having the 'Pinning' special rule. Additionally, on the same turn their flamer based attacks gain 'Soul Blaze.'

Martyred lady: The theme of self sacrifice and heroic defiance is fun. This is an army that would definitely hold it's ground and get tougher to clear as the game went on
Determination: All units at or below half their starting strength may re-roll failed 'Shield of Faith' saves
Hammer and Anvil: All units gain the 'Stubborn' special rule.

Valorous heart: Repentia needed a boost, I think being able to get there sooner would help. Also, 'Crusader' will push them more towards a foot horde list which is a good look for Sisters.
Atonement: Repentia that don't purchase and/or start the game in a transport gain the 'Scout' special rule
Redemptive crusade: All units gain the 'Crusader' special rule.

Bloody rose: So the speed element was good and I still think the Dominions needed a boost here. I hope 'Preferred enemy' works better for them. Hopefully it doesn't make them too strong.
Mounted assault: Same
Blood red sky: Dominions gain the 'Preferred enemy' special rule

Sacred rose: Same I agree with you here, I think I got this one right on the first try.

Awww, come on. ;(

Very well done.

Is the Argent Shroud Faith Unites limited to Seraphims?

Thanks.
'Faith unites' works for all units in that detachment. 'Plunging fire' just works for Seraphim. I should have been more clear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, I updated the first post. The second draft should contain all the new rules hypothesis. Let me know what you guys think of the update.

Slante

Hi again!

I like the second draft a lot more.

Ebon Chalice: I'm not 100% sure what to do here, I think these abilities represent a more well rounded approach to it without just ripping off Space Marines
Unchanging, unyielding: One unit per turn may re-roll a failed 'Act of Faith' test.
Faith and Fire: All Battle Sisters squads may use their 'Act of Faith' twice per game.
Given the description, I would say the Theme is "Tradition", but I must admit it is hard to find something interesting for the rules. I don´t like the buffs to Acts of Faith, that is more an Argent Shroud´s thing.

Random thinking:
1) It would be easy to take concepts from the Astartes: Bolter Drill is the obvious one. These Sisters are better trained.
2) Given that they are the "traditional" Sisters, they could get access to old, sacred, more advanced weaponry. Power weapons free for some models?
3) BIG THING: Celestians as troops. They are the most revered soldiers of the Order, in the Order that cares the most for traditions.
4) Tactical advantages. Redeploy one unit? Reserves buff?

I will go with 3 and another one.

The rest sounds good!

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Sisters rules have some pretty big problems, but that said, I think these rules are interesting and could make a fine addition to the Sisters.

The only rule I take issue with is Plunging Fire; Seraphim already have twin-linked ranged attacks and Rending isn't a big help this edition, I'd suggest giving them the ability to reroll 1s to wound instead.

Um, Seraphim do not have twin-linked attacks. Seraphim have two pistols which they fire independently, and their AoF grants them Shred, not TL.

As for the Ebon Chalice's 'tradition', why not go back to the Daughters? Traditionally the weapons of the Daughters of the Emperor on San Leor were hand-and-a-half swords (San Leor was a feral world, albeit an advanced one - about renaissance era). Could let them buy extra CCWs on their squads.

Could also give them a special command squad, kind of like Black Templars get their Crusader squads, that represents the Companions of St Alicia.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

As for the Ebon Chalice's 'tradition', why not go back to the Daughters? Traditionally the weapons of the Daughters of the Emperor on San Leor were hand-and-a-half swords (San Leor was a feral world, albeit an advanced one - about renaissance era). Could let them buy extra CCWs on their squads.

That sounds good!

Given that Sisters do not exactly excel at close combat, I would give all infantry models a CCW for free.

Could also give them a special command squad, kind of like Black Templars get their Crusader squads, that represents the Companions of St Alicia.

This is Ok, but then why not giving all Orders a special squad? That would be like a "step 2" to differentiate them.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Awww, come on. ;(

Take it easy, most Proposed Rules topics get few responses.

I mean, look at my own thread about "In-game Options"... I only got 6 opinions

I think Repentia should have the ability to make any transport an assault vehicle. That's their biggest weakness.

Convergent evolution! I've been struggling with similar ideas for the 6 Major Orders Militant myself over a couple of threads, with Furyou Miko (among others) offering helpful critiques -- but because I didn't think most opponents would let you get special rules for free (even though it would be fair given Astartes' Chapter Tactics), I ended up making them all "Order Relics", one from each of the six founders. In brief:

Ebon Chalice (St. Dominica): The Grail of Ages (60 points). Furious Charge & Rage on Canoness & her SCS, Rage on Celestians within 6". (Same rules, new fluff).

Valorous Heart (St. Lucia): The Skull of Vandire (55 points). Fearless Canoness with FNP(3+); FNP(5+) on her squad & all Repentia within 6". (New fluff and new rules).

Martyred Lady (St. Katharine): The Broken Halo (55 points). Counts as a power axe. Canoness gains the Preferred Enemy (everything) special rule; she and all Battle Sister Squads within 6" gain And They Shall Know No Fear.

Argent Shroud (St. Silvana): The Shroud of Silvana (60 points). The flashing silver gives the Canoness a Blind attack in melee and her shooting gains Shred. She and all Seraphim withn 6" may failed Ld tests, including AOF.

Bloody Rose (St. Mina): The Pillar of Fire (60 points). A melta with Ignores Cover and Gets Hot. Canoness may Scout. Canoness, her unit, and all Dominions within 6" gain, in effect, Eldar Battle Focus (shoot & run in same phase).

Sacred Rose (St. Arabella): The Light Infallible (60 points). Canoness's shooting weapon counts as Rending and Twin-Linked; her squad and all Retributors within 6" count shooting attacks as twin-linked if they fire at the same target as the Canoness (the targeter projects a visible beam of light) and may reroll Ld tests EXCEPT Acts of Faith.

Full rules are here -- I'd love any and all comments over there, so as not to derail Celtic Strike's thread overmuch.

Note that this matches each Major Order with one of the six types of Sororitas infantry, which is fun. Note also it costs a BUNCH of points (to appease potential opponents who aren't enthused about homebrew) and only works within 6" of the Canoness (which I find more tactically interesting than army-wide buffs) -- obviously Celtic Strike is going in a different direction than that.

Furyou Miko wrote:Traditionally the weapons of the Daughters of the Emperor on San Leor were hand-and-a-half swords (San Leor was a feral world, albeit an advanced one - about renaissance era).

Wait, what? Fluff I don't know! Where is it from? Wherefrom, prithee, I beg thee!

 da001 wrote:
Where is the Order of the Ermine Mantle? They are not one of the six big Orders, but they are still far bigger than any Minor Order. They have a politics and diplomacy trait that would fits the "Alliance" theme, allowing them to ally with any Imperial force, even the Wolves. Their leader (currently missing) is a High Lord of Terra, no less.

Wait, what, "Ermine Mantle"? This is the Order the lost Abbess is from? MORE LORE! NEED MORE LORE!

McNinja wrote:I think Repentia should have the ability to make any transport an assault vehicle. That's their biggest weakness.

Homebrewed a Sororitas assault transport here instead . Comments welcome!

As for what Celtic has actually done (err, as opposed to talking about me, because narcissism):

1) FOC-swapping, e.g. Celestians as troops or Repentia that score, is tricky to get right. I tried it once and people howled. Though Celestians as troops are a lot less balance-breaking than, say, Seraphim....

2) Not sure about "slow and purposeful" for Sacred Rose Retributors.... Slow Sisters seem strange. Relentless, I'd love.

3) Scouting Repentia for Valorous Heart is a really cool idea.

Founded the rules for Old Repentias. Citadel Journal 49.
The model got 4 4 3 3 2 4 2 8 4+.
Frag & Krak grenades, bolt pistol & CCW (or two bolt pistols in the picture). Independent Character. 40 points per model.

Rules:
“Only in Death Does Duty End”: When a squad joined by a Sister Repentia is forced to fall back after having been defeated in close combat, the squad falls back as normal, but the enemy may not pursue or consolidate. Instead, the Sister Repentia remains in place and the close combat continues next turn. Should the Sister win the combat she must attempt to join the nearest friendly unit as soon as possible.

“Absolution”: When fielded as part of a Sisters of Battle army, should the Sister Repentia win a close combat after her squad have fallen back she will immediately generate a single Faith point, and count any squad she joins as Faithful.

Sounds really cool to me. Getting up to 5 of them as a Elite entry a la Sanguinary Priest. Anyway, this would need new units for each Order.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 da001 wrote:
Where is the Order of the Ermine Mantle? They are not one of the six big Orders, but they are still far bigger than any Minor Order. They have a politics and diplomacy trait that would fits the "Alliance" theme, allowing them to ally with any Imperial force, even the Wolves. Their leader (currently missing) is a High Lord of Terra, no less.

Wait, what, "Ermine Mantle"? This is the Order the lost Abbess is from? MORE LORE! NEED MORE LORE!

There is very little to be told.
1- They are one of the Minor Orders.
2- The Abbess of the AS, Sabrina is from the Ermine Mantle. A High Lord of Terra, INFINITE POWERRR. Still counts as Abbess even if she is missing. This is very big in my eyes, it is not a mere Minor Order. She disappeared on the ocean world of Habren IV, while doing a pilgrimage to San Leor. Source: Liber Sororitas (White Dwarf 293 UK), Blood of Martyrs.
3- They have launched at least a dozen searches for Sabrina. Liber Sororitas.
4- They took part of the defense of the Cadia Sector during the 13th Crusade. They had a convent at the tallest spire of Hive Siana, the capital of Subiaco Diablo, a hive world near Cadia that was almost destroyed by a zombie plague. Source: Inquisitor character in Sisters of the Emperor, by Andy Hoare. Codex: Eye of Terror.
5- There is a named character called Anastasia who took the Oath of the Penitent, and has visions guiding her to specific objectives. Source: Inquisitor character in Sisters of the Emperor, by Andy Hoare. Codex: Eye of Terror.
6- "Self-imposed penance after the loss of the Order Militant Banner" says a wiki. It rings a bell, but I don´t know the source.
7- 3 "missions" (?) sent to Subiaco Diablo during the 13th Crusade, according to the Force Dispositions in Codex: Eye of Terror.

I think I have read more about them somewhere, but I don´t know where. And I am afraid I mixed fan-made stuff with official sources in my mind...

Ermine Mantle lore: thanks.

Lone gunwoman Repentia: awesome.

 da001 wrote:
Found the rules for Old Repentias. Citadel Journal 49.
The model got 4 4 3 3 2 4 2 8 4+.
Frag & Krak grenades, bolt pistol & CCW (or two bolt pistols in the picture). Independent Character. 40 points per model.

Spoiler:

Rules:
“Only in Death Does Duty End”: When a squad joined by a Sister Repentia is forced to fall back after having been defeated in close combat, the squad falls back as normal, but the enemy may not pursue or consolidate. Instead, the Sister Repentia remains in place and the close combat continues next turn. Should the Sister win the combat she must attempt to join the nearest friendly unit as soon as possible.

“Absolution”: When fielded as part of a Sisters of Battle army, should the Sister Repentia win a close combat after her squad have fallen back she will immediately generate a single Faith point, and count any squad she joins as Faithful.

Sounds really cool to me. Getting up to 5 of them as a Elite entry a la Sanguinary Priest. Anyway, this would need new units for each Order.

I actually love the original concept of a super-Repentia as an independent character -- maybe a former Canoness or Palatine who has fallen, hard, from grace. Might be a good Valorous Heart-specific unit.

(I wrote up a Repentia Veteran at one point -- i.e. she managed to survive multiple battles, which is either a sign of the Emperor's willingness to forgive or utter failure, depending on how you look at it -- but that's a different thing, an alternative squad leader to the Mistress, not an IC).

 da001 wrote:


Random thinking:
1) It would be easy to take concepts from the Astartes: Bolter Drill is the obvious one. These Sisters are better trained.
2) Given that they are the "traditional" Sisters, they could get access to old, sacred, more advanced weaponry. Power weapons free for some models?
3) BIG THING: Celestians as troops. They are the most revered soldiers of the Order, in the Order that cares the most for traditions.
4) Tactical advantages. Redeploy one unit? Reserves buff?

I will go with 3 and another one.

The rest sounds good!

Thanks, yeah, Traditional is pretty difficult. BSS have 'Preferred enemy' AOF already, which is a mini Bolter drill. I figured being able to use it twice would would represent that.
Celestians as Troops would actually make them worth taking, which is a shame about them really but 'Fixing' them isn't part of the reach of the Forum post. lol. Having them
count as scoring - same thing with redeploying - almost seems like an ability to give a Special Character, but once again, I think that's beyond the post.
That's something for my Sisters of Battle 6th ed codex I posted a while ago. Hint, hint. lol http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/532508.page

Still, that's not a bad idea. I think giving BSS a free close combat weapon isn't too bad. I don't know though, none of those really jump out at me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SisterSydney wrote:


As for what Celtic has actually done (err, as opposed to talking about me, because narcissism):

1) FOC-swapping, e.g. Celestians as troops or Repentia that score, is tricky to get right. I tried it once and people howled. Though Celestians as troops are a lot less balance-breaking than, say, Seraphim....

2) Not sure about "slow and purposeful" for Sacred Rose Retributors.... Slow Sisters seem strange. Relentless, I'd love.

3) Scouting Repentia for Valorous Heart is a really cool idea.

Thanks, I think Relentless might be too powerful, I was trying to keep balance between the Orders by not lob-siding them too much. Not being able to 'overwatch' would make you be careful with your squad, especially if you take the 4 Heavy Flamers. But then you wouldn't need 'Slow and purposeful' if you took the Flamers.... It may not be the right balance but I'm open to suggestions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 da001 wrote:
Founded the rules for Old Repentias. Citadel Journal 49.
The model got 4 4 3 3 2 4 2 8 4+.
Frag & Krak grenades, bolt pistol & CCW (or two bolt pistols in the picture). Independent Character. 40 points per model.

Spoiler:

Rules:
“Only in Death Does Duty End”: When a squad joined by a Sister Repentia is forced to fall back after having been defeated in close combat, the squad falls back as normal, but the enemy may not pursue or consolidate. Instead, the Sister Repentia remains in place and the close combat continues next turn. Should the Sister win the combat she must attempt to join the nearest friendly unit as soon as possible.

“Absolution”: When fielded as part of a Sisters of Battle army, should the Sister Repentia win a close combat after her squad have fallen back she will immediately generate a single Faith point, and count any squad she joins as Faithful.

Sounds really cool to me. Getting up to 5 of them as a Elite entry a la Sanguinary Priest. Anyway, this would need new units for each Order.

The old school Repentia were really cool, I remember them. I'm not sure about the current fluff allowing for Repentia to lead squads. That's not very repentant, it's super awesome. lol. But once again, not trying to reinvent the codex. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/532508.page hint, hint. lol

 Celtic Strike wrote:
(...) I'm not sure about the current fluff allowing for Repentia to lead squads. That's not very repentant, it's super awesome (...)

I think they are not leading the unit in any sense, they are just attached to it...

Or you could give Repentia IC a special rule that they can only join Repentia squads or Frateris Militia, Zealots, Redemptionists (which you'd have to homebrew), but they can't join squads of unfallen Sisters.

Those aren't bad ideas, I wouldn't mind having this turn into a group project to retweak the Sisters codex