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2014/01/19 05:04:57
Subject: Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
So, Penitent Titan -- walker or monster? I can see it as a Gargantuan Creature that becomes more powerful with every Wound it takes as the bound penitents expire and pour their death-agonies into the psyker at the helm....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/19 05:06:23
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Good point. Remember it's not losing pilots -- it's a mecha "Wicker Man" / "Burning Man" whose occupants are mostly just there to die.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe a unique Damage Table that gives both "weapon destroyed" type results and buffs? ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/19 15:37:06
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
First of all, I'd give the PT the following:
- two titan close combat weapons with built-in heavy flamers w. torrent (and hellstorm if you're feeling mean )
- shield of faith
- feel no pain
- fearless
For the damage table I suggest the following:
1. Destroyed Relic
The hit has damaged or destroyed one of the holy symbols on the titan. Enraged by the loss, the penitent crew is driven to even greater feats of anger. The model loses a hull point, but gains the rage special rule.
2. Leg Pilot Wounded
The hit has injured one of the penitents controlling the titan's legs. The pilot is driven to an even greater frenzy by the pain. The model loses a hull point. Additionally, it gains the Furious Charge special rule. If the model does not move in a friendly movement phase (unless it is engaged in combat), it loses this rule again.
3-5. Thud.
The hit did not damage anything (or anyone) vital. Treat as a glancing hit.
6. Psyker hit
The psyker controlling the titan is wounded by the hit. The model loses D3 hull points. The titan gains the preferred enemy special rule against the unit responsible for the hit. If this was the enemy warlord, the titan gains preferred enemy against both the warlord and any models from the same codex instead. If this result is rolled twice, the titan is removed as a casualty with no saves of any kind allowed.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/20 20:22:37
1400 points of EW/MW Italians (FoW)
2200 points of SoB and Inquisition (40K)
1000 points of orks (40K)
Just starting out with Ultramarines (30K)
Four 1000-2500 point forces for WHFB (RIP)
One orc team (Blood Bowl)
2014/01/20 13:32:12
Subject: Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
Some neat ideas. I think we can do better with "3-5" than "thud" -- probably "weapon destroyed" results for the secondary weapons.
Each arm having a Titan Close Combat Weapon and a Hellstorm-template Inferno Gun would be awesome. OTT, probably, and I don't think other Titans get two weapons per arm slot -- dammit, to get this right I have to buy the new Apocalypse, that's $70US down the drain -- but you take away the carapace weapon, it might balance it out a bit.
Actually, you could combine these two ideas for better balance: normal superheavies don't ever suffer "weapon destroyed" results -- in fact they ignore every result on the damage table except "explodes" -- so losing weapons (or some degree of mobility for leg hits) would balance having four Titan-scale arm weapons as opposed to the normal two.
Also I'd like multiple twin-linked heavy flamers (or firestorm cannons??) shooting out every which way and some nice rotary scythes at the ankles to so Stomp attacks use a larger template.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SisterSydney wrote: ....dammit, to get this right I have to buy the new Apocalypse, that's $70US down the drain....
Oh, double dammit, Apocalypse isn't available as an ebook, as far as I can tell.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/20 16:09:26
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Have you seen the Menoth Battle Engine for Warmachine? It strikes me as exactly the sort of thing you might see a Sisters army fielding. An enormous, extremely heavy altar with an ornate pipe organ and a Sister banging out hymns to the Emperor. But instead of an engine, the altar is towed by a team of a dozen Sisters Repentia chained together at the neck. Perhaps treat the unit as a gargantuan creature, and for every two wounds it suffers, its movement is reduced by an inch. Special rules include unique, vastly OP acts of faith and other bonuses to nearby units, and throw in 8 D-weapons for good measure.
This horrific thing? (Sorry I don't know how to insert the image directly). Yes, that's adequately grimdark. Not a superheavy, though, more of a chariot -- except you can kill the people dragging it in close combat.... hrm.
Also, I've updated the Kriegsminaret and Armoured Pulpit to let them be destroyed on "weapon destroyed results.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
SisterSydney wrote: This horrific thing? (Sorry I don't know how to insert the image directly). Yes, that's adequately grimdark. Not a superheavy, though, more of a chariot -- except you can kill the people dragging it in close combat.... hrm.
Also, I've updated the Kriegsminaret and Armoured Pulpit to let them be destroyed on "weapon destroyed results.
No I believe he is talking about this:
2014/01/20 20:24:49
Subject: Re:Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
Forgot to add a line of text to the 'psyker hit' result. It now also loses D3 hull points to compensate for the lack of 'explodes' on the damage table ('explodes' causes D3+1 hits, iirc, but can never cause instant death like the 6 on this table).
1400 points of EW/MW Italians (FoW)
2200 points of SoB and Inquisition (40K)
1000 points of orks (40K)
Just starting out with Ultramarines (30K)
Four 1000-2500 point forces for WHFB (RIP)
One orc team (Blood Bowl)
2014/01/20 20:32:22
Subject: Re:Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
SisterSydney wrote: As I've said before, I love the Sisters of Battle and I love tanks. Having upgunned the Heavy Support and Fast Attack slots with the Soritas Predator and Oriflamme Scout Tank, I decided to try my hand at Lords or rather Ladies of War -- plus a new Heavy Support assault vehicle for our Repentia and a whole list of liturgical wargear that only such massive war machines can carry.
Ladies of War. Cheesy. I'd just stick with Lords of war, it's more 'professional'.
Rolling Chapel Equipment List
Spoiler:
Armoured Pulpit: 50 points Devout mechanics have converted one of this vehicle's cupolas or hatches into a heavily armoured pulpit from which a preacher can deliver inspiring, terrifying, and massively amplified sermons over the roar the heat of battle. All friendly, Emperor-worshipping units within 6" of a vehicle with an Armoured Pulpit gain the War Hymns special rule. However, they may only use the "The Emperor Protects" and "Righteousness of the Emperor" hymns. An Emperor-worshipping unit is any of the following: - any unit from Codex:Adepta Sororitas - any unit from Codex:Imperial Guard - any unit from a Space Marines detachment using Black Templars chapter tactics - any unit from an Adeptus Arbites fandex. Any other units lack the faith in the divinity of the Emperor required to benefit from these rules.
No Space Marines worship the Emperor as a God, this includes the Black Templars. To them he is the Father of Mankind, not a God. I would simply make it that any Sisters Battle Brother can use it, so: Adepta Sororitas Armoured Battle Group Death Korps Armoured Battle Group Death Korps Assault Brigade Death Korps Siege Regiment Elysian Drop Troops Imperial Guard Inquisition
The idea is fine though, I'd say make it a Priest in the Pulpit, and say it provides an Laspistol to whatever it's mounted on for the lulz. 50pts seems fine for this.
Holy Light: 25 points As the massive war machine crashes into the enemy lines, its gilded armour gleaming and its sacramental spotlights blazing, the eyes of the evildoers are dazzled by a pure white light and their ears fill with celestial music. Then the faithful charge out of the vehicle and rip them apart. [spoiler] Assault vehicles only (including open-topped vehicles). When a unit charges out of a transport with Holy Light, it counts as having assault grenades and inflicts a Blind attack on all enemies it is charging, resolved at Initiative 10.
I would say make this like the CSM Dirge Casters, have it affect any enemy unit within 6". Maybe 12" due to Super Heavy status.
I'd also change it to grant any unit charging within range a Hammer of Wrath attack with the Blind Rule. Much simpler.
Icon of Courage: 20 points Looming literally larger than life, these holy images of Imperial saints past look sternly down on today's combatants and forbid them to waver for an instant. Friendly units within 12" of a vehicle with Icons of Courage re-roll failed Morale, Fear, and Pinning tests.
This is fine.
Vox Dei: 30 points A soul-stirring, ear-splitting array of high-powered laud hailers inspires Sororitas at great distances. All friendly units within 24" of a vehicle equipped with a Vox Dei re-roll failed Leadership tests when attempting an Act of Faith.
Also fine.
Design notes: Except for Holy Light, whose cost is basically a big fat guess, these are all scaled-up versions of existing wargear/priests, with point costs increased to reflect increased ranges. Remember that doubling the range quadruples the area of effect and even the same range counts for more when measured from all sides of vehicle rather than from a single model!
Deliverer Assault Shrine: 200 points Ugly juggernauts converted from civilian mining vehicles, their hulls covered first with crude slabs of heavy armour and then with layer upon layer of devotional decoration, Delivers can lurch across the battlefield with surprising speed. Flamers roaring, they slam into enemy positions and drop their front ramps to disgorge Sororitas shock troops or hate-crazed Frateris. BS:4 Armour: 13/13/12 HP:4
Spoiler:
Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Transport)
Unit Composition: 1 Deliverer Assault Shrine
Wargear: Twin-linked multi-melta Two flamestorm cannons Searchlight Smoke launchers
Special Rules: Assault Vehicle Shield of Faith
Transport Capacity: 12 models
Options: May replace twin-linked multi-melta with twin-linked heavy bolter or twin-linked heavy flamer: free. May take items from the Adepta Sororitas Vehicle Equipment List. May take items from the Rolling Chapel Equipment List.
Design notes: Basically a pious poor man's Land Raider Redeemer, with worse armour and no Machine Spirit -- but with access to all the sacramental nasties of the Rolling Chapel Equipment List. Points cost is pure guesstimate.
LR Redeemer - 240 -4AV -40 Replace TL AssCannon with TL Multimelta -20 -Frag Launchers -10 -POTMS -30 +Shield of Faith +10 Total: 150
Sororitas Baneblade Variants
Spoiler:
Adepta Sororitas super-heavy vehicles are moving temples of destruction. Fortunately for heretics, they are also rare. Between the Sisterhood's preference for short-range urban fighting in defense of shrines and the Ecclesiarchy's on-and-off relationship with the Machine Cult, the Orders Militant actually have fewer superheavies per 100,000 infantry than the Imperial Guard. In fact, most Sororitas "Ladies of War" are converted from the Baneblade and its variants, and they are rarely provided directly by the Mechanicum: Instead, the Sisters tend to acquire former Imperial Guard super-heavy tanks, whether by recovering wrecked ones from the battlefield, capturing them from traitor regiments, or simply "requisitioning" them from overawed Guard commanders and never giving them back.
A Sororitas Baneblade Variant starts with an Imperial Guard super-heavy datasheet but adds the following special rules: Retributor Crew: Increase Ballistic Skill to 4. Rolling Chapel: May take items from the Rolling Chapel Equipment List. Shield of Faith: As per Codex:Adepta Sororitas. Sponsons of Fire: If a Sororitas Baneblade Variant takes sponsons, replace each lascannon with a Flamestorm Cannon.
This will be +50pts to base I reckon, equivalent to a pair of HB Sponsons and Targetters. The Flamestorm is probably about even to a single Lascannon, so this is fine.
Storm Queen: 560 points The Sororitas's favorite superheavy vehicle is the Imperial Guard Stormlord, because its troop bay can either carry squads of sharpshooting Retributors or be converted to hold Exorcist missile launchers or even a towering minaret for a Ministorum Priest.
Spoiler:
As Imperial Guard Stormlord (Escalationpg. 111) except
Special rule: Sororitas Baneblade Variant
Options: A Storm Queen may replace its troop bay with one of the following, reducing its transport capacity to 20 models and losing all fire points:
- Kriegsminaret: 100 points All friendly, Faithful units within 12" of a Storm Queen with a Kriegsminaret gain +1 Ld and the War Hymns special rule. However, they may only use the "The Emperor Protects" and "Righteousness of the Emperor" hymns.
Design notes: Some IG superheavies can replace their sponson lasguns -- worth about 40 points, if you go by the cost of Predator sponsons -- with targeters to gain +1 BS. In addition, Shield of Faith seems like it should be worth at least 40 points for such a massive vehicle: Destroyer weapons may ignore it, but the majority of things fired at a superheavy won't. So +80 points total.
Stormlord +50, 530pts.
By my math, an Exorcist Launcher is 65pts. As far as I can gather, Transport Capacity is about 2pts per model. So the twin launcher should be a 90pt upgrade. And I'd say +50 for the Minaret would be fine.
Flameblade: 585 points [i]This Baneblade variant replaces the original's cannon with weapons more to the Sororitas' fiery taste.
Spoiler:
As Imperial Guard Blaneblade (Escalationpg. 79) except
Replace turreted Baneblade Cannon with Inferno Gun: Template S:7 AP:3 Primary, Super-Torrent* Super-Torrent: As per Torrent, but the template may be placed 18" away.
Design notes: The Flameblade pays only 20 points for BS4, rather than 40 as for the Storm Queen, because its main weapon uses a template.
Assuming the Baneblade Cannon is equivalent to a 'Light Titan Weapon' (as per Warhounds / Reavers, as opposed to 'Heavy Titan Weapons' found on Warlords and Emperors), so a stright swap would be fine. But Inferno Guns are not Torrent anymore, so that shouldn't be free. Regular Torrent is worth 15pts The 'super' would probably be +25 at least.
Magna Melta for Demolisher is fine.
That the main gun is a template doesn't matter, all other weapons on it will benefit. Baneblade = 525 +1BS, SoF +50 'super torrent' +25 Total: 600
Sword of Light: 505 points This modified Shadowsword replaces the giant laser of the Volcano Cannon with the more Sisterhood-friendly Melta Cannon.
Spoiler:
As Imperial Guard Shadowsword (Escalationpg. 107) except
Replace Volcano Cannon with Melta Cannon: 72" S:10 AP:1 Ordnance 1, 10" Blast, Titanic Melta*, Primary Weapon *Titanic Melta: The Melta Cannon rolls 3d6+10 for armour penetration against targets directly under the hole in the center of the blast template, 2d6+10 against all other targets under the template.
Special rule: Sororitas Baneblade Variant
Options: A Sword of Light may not take targeters.
[i]Design notes: The Melta Cannon seems less potent than the Volcano Cannon, so I gave the Sword of Light a 20 point discount from the +80 cost I used for the Storm Queen.
As per Titans, Titan Weapons seems to be costed equivalently across. Probably shouldn't be, but they are.
Melta Cannons are just Melta now. Melta is 10pts, Double Melta then should be 20, and triple Melta would be 30, but only in the center of the template, so call it +25. Shadowsword = 455 +1BS, SoF +50 +'titanic melta' +25 Total: 530
Overall, sound ideas mostly, a bit fuzzy on costing, but not TOO bad really. Superheavies are.. tricky to say the least.
For the 'mega penitent', it needs to be a Walker. It should not have a Psyker in it. Rogue Psykers are put to death immediately, they are too much of a threat due to their psychic ability and pose too much risk of becoming a conduit for daemonic incursion to live. They wouldn't be used at the core of a Sisters weapon.
I see a Titanic Penitent Engine as something that would be roughly Warhound equivalent. 10-12" tall, lither with weaker armour (AV 13/12/11 maybe?) with 9 Hull Points.
Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons aren't found on titans so small generally, and I don't think it'd 'fit' on a lighter frame like the T.Peni. (The exception being the Stompa, but that thing has 1 and outmasses a lot of things being a walking trashcan). No 'Titan Class' weaponry at all infact. I'd give it a pair of giant Eviscerators / Chainfists though and 2 Flamestorm Cannons.
Possibly with a pair of shoulder mounted TL Heavy Bolters. And drawing from my own Sisters stuff, I'd give it some Zenith Missiles: A Zenith Missile is a weapon with the following profile: Zenith Missile: Range-48", Str-8, AP-2, Type-Heavy 1, Skyfire, One Shot.
Also bear in mind it gains the following just from being a Super Heavy Walker: ( S-HW: Fear ) ( S-HW: Hammer of Wrath ) ( S-HW: Invincible Behemoth ) ( S-HW: Move Through Cover ) ( S-HW: Relentless ) ( S-HW: Smash ) ( S-HW: Stomp ) ( S-HW: Strikedown )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/20 20:33:08
Ladies of War. Cheesy. I'd just stick with Lords of war, it's more 'professional'.
Why? Lady is the feminine variant of Lord.
No Space Marines worship the Emperor as a God, this includes the Black Templars.
Incorrect. Would you like me to list the names of GW-created Chapters who venerate the God-Emperor as the God-Emperor of Mankind?
It sounds more professional because the entry is Lords of War, that's all. It would have made more sense to call it 'Apocalypse Formation', but hey.
And Feel free to list them and cite sources, but what I've read says that all Space Marines do not see the Emperor as a god. But I'm always happy to be proven wrong though. You don't learn anything if you aren't open to critisicm after all.
Regardless, I'd still stick with making it Battle Brothers only affected, it's just easier, as those are who could be affected by it normally.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This is my take on the concept of a mega-penitent.
Spoiler:
Army: Sisters of Battle
BG: The Penintentiarius Titan is truly a horrifying site to behold.
Nine wretched souls that have committed the most heinous crimes are bound to the chasis of a towering walker.
Lightly armoured and fast, it charges the enemy lines seeking redemption for its begotten crew, often spewing Repentia and Penitent Engines that use handles and clamps on the outside of the machine to carry them into the fray.
FO: Apocalypse / Lords of War
Squad: Penintentiarius Titan
Unit: Penintentiarius Titan, Points Per: 550, Models: 1-3, Vehicle Type: Super-Heavy Walker, Open-Topped,
WS-4, BS-2, S-10, FA-12, SA-12, RA-11, HP-9, I-3, A-3(4).
Wargear:
Two Chainfists with built-in Flamestorm Cannons
Two Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters
Six Zenith Missiles
One Void Shield
Special Rules:
( S-HW: Fear )
( S-HW: Hammer of Wrath )
( S-HW: Invincible Behemoth )
( S-HW: Move Through Cover )
( S-HW: Relentless )
( S-HW: Smash )
( S-HW: Stomp )
( S-HW: Strikedown )
Transport Capacity: 10+2* or 3*
Shield of Faith
Penance Engine
Rage
It Will Not Die
Agile
Options:
Void Shields:
Each hit scored against a model with a Void Shield will instead hit a void shield (whilst they remain).
Close combat attacks come from inside the shield and therefore are not stopped.
Void shields have an Armour Value of 12.
A glancing or penetrating hit (or any hit from a Destroyer weapon) scored against a void shield causes it to collapse.
After all the void shields have collapsed, further hits strike the Titan instead.
At the end of each of the Titan's turns, roll one dice for each collapsed void shield:
each roll of 5+ instantly restores one collapsed shield.
Zenith Missiles:
A Zenith Missile is a weapon with the following profile:
Zenith Missile: Range-48", Str-8, AP-2, Type-Heavy 1, Skyfire, One Shot.
Transport Capacity: 10+2* or 3*
This model has a transport capacity of ten Repentia plus 2 Characters or up to three Penitent Engines.
If any models are mounted on the Penintentiarius Titan, each time it suffers a penetrating hit, D3 occupants suffer a Str3, AP-, Rending hits.
Penance Engine:
For each Hull Point lost, increase the Attack value of the Penintentiarius Titan by one.
Agile:
In the Shooting phase, this model can choose to either:
- Fire all available weapons.
- Fire a single weapon and then Run.
- Fire no weapons at all and Run twice.
I'll do a proper costing in the morning.
But I estimate it to be around 550 based on quick fuzzy brain maths against a Warhound.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/21 01:03:00
Ladies of War. Cheesy.
I'd just stick with Lords of war, it's more 'professional'.
Why? Lady is the feminine variant of Lord.
No Space Marines worship the Emperor as a God, this includes the Black Templars.
Incorrect. Would you like me to list the names of GW-created Chapters who venerate the God-Emperor as the God-Emperor of Mankind?
It sounds more professional because the entry is Lords of War, that's all.
It would have made more sense to call it 'Apocalypse Formation', but hey.
And Feel free to list them and cite sources, but what I've read says that all Space Marines do not see the Emperor as a god.
But I'm always happy to be proven wrong though. You don't learn anything if you aren't open to critisicm after all.
Regardless, I'd still stick with making it Battle Brothers only affected, it's just easier, as those are who could be affected by it normally.
The Fire Hawks are one, prior to becoming the LotD, having been one of the first to the fight during the Age of Apostasy, in support of Sebastian Thor (and did, in fact, get awarded a Heresy-era Battle Barge by him, iirc, as Vandire had destroyed their homeworld). (IA v9, C:UM 2E, WH40K Comp, WD 99, C:Assassins 3E)
The Adulators were mentioned in a Chapter Approved article, of which it is said (according to Lexicanum) "The chapter is steeped in the ways of the Ecclesiarchy and are on close terms with their holy orders". (Chapter Approved 2001, Blood of Asaheim(BL) )
The Angels Revenant were said to be "stern supporters of the Imperial Creed". (Chapter Approved 2001, IA v12)
The White Consuls also worship the Emperor as a god, which is noted for being unusual for the Astartes. (WH40KBRB 5E, C:UM, C: EoT, DW: Rites of Battle, C: SM 6E ebook)
The Doom Eagles are "notoriously pious". (DW: Honour the Chapter, Legends of the Space Marines anthology, several BL novels/stories)
The Fire Angels (a UM Successor) are zealously dedicated to the Creed. Of them, it is said, "they do not revere their ancestral primarch (Roboute Guilliman) as most chapters do, believing this to be a form of idolatry". (IA v9)
The Red Scorpions, who developed the Helios-pattern Land Raider, are seriously in the Emp-worshipping camp. (IA v4, v6, v7, v9, WD 101, WD 105)
And then there are the Storm Wardens, from FFG's Deathwatch RPG. Not a GW Chapter, obviously, but one more for the pile.
One can make arguments for the Angels Resplendent/Angels Penitent, the Brazen Skulls, the Celebrants, the Crimson Fists, the Templars of Blood, and the Novamarines, though these Chapters are not outright said to worship the God-Emperor (but elements to what lore there is about them suggests such an arrangement).
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
2014/01/21 02:55:46
Subject: Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
Psienesis, thanks for the list of Emperor-worshiping Astartes. That took a lot of work.... I think "pious" could refer either to Emperor-worship or the Astartes' own rites, which are a form of ancestor worship (fallen heroes < chapter founder < primarch < Emperor, but not a God-Emperor). But "Imperial Creed" definitely means Emperor-worship.
Hmmm. Maybe Ovion's "applies to all Battle Brothers of Sororitas" is the simplest way to go. Then you can home-rule that Templars, say, or Fire Angels are Battle Brothers, unlike other Marines, because they share the Sisters' faith.
2. Superheavy point cost
Ovion, thanks. Again, a lot of work.
I've actually gotten a look at a copy of Apocalypse so I'll bring the weapon stats into alignment with those rather than stick with the current stats, so that removes one costing complexity. Otherwise I think I'd stick with what you say.
3. Penitent Titan
Lots of good ideas coming in on this one. I personally like the idea of a penitent psyker in command: He or she is not a rogue psyker -- that indeed would be too dangerous to let live -- but a truly penitent psyker, one who personally feels he or she has failed the God-Emperor and who accepts the judgment of the Ecclesiarchy and the sentence of Titanhood.
Size is going to tricky, and arguably you could have a whole series of Penitent Engines from regular to big to Holy Feth. Again, now I can actually look at a copy of Apocalypse, I'll be able to think much more rigorously in terms of existing models (in both senses of the term).
And I love the idea of Repentia clinging to its legs as it charges into battle. Hadn't thought of regular-sized PEs doing it, though. Those are really the two units that are crazy enough....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/21 02:56:31
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
I would go ahead and change the Melta Cannons titanic melta wording.
I understand the +10 to the D6 rolls are meant to be the strength of the gun. But I know a lot if people that would argue pure RAW it then means 3D6+10 and THEN add the weapon strength. Just say it rolls 3D6 for Armour Penetration.
Build a man a fire, he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
2014/01/21 10:36:49
Subject: Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
I don't like the idea of a psyker in there. But I know you disagree with me on the nature of Faith, so I'm going to let it lie aside from this one comment.
Other than that, everything looks good. I'd personally offer a one-for-one swap on the Flameblade for heavy bolters and heavy flamers (when I built my Laevantine, I gave it a flamestorm cannon, TL heavy flamer, incendiary siege mortar and two sponsons with TL multi-melta and inferno cannon).
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2014/01/21 13:22:34
Subject: Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
Hmmm. Folks are convincing me, it'd be hard as heck to find a psyker who'd failed badly enough to be sentenced to a Penitent Titan and yet remained loyal enough he could be trusted with one.
As long as the pilot is a former high official and feels the agonies of all the crew as if they were his own, I'm happy.
(Well, I might add the option to buy Psyker Mastery Levels, perhaps at a points premium...).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/21 13:23:16
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
I've revised the Deliver (heavy support assault transport), the Sororitas Baneblade variants, and the Rolling Chapel wargear based on folks' suggestions -- especially Ovion's cost breakdown -- and on finally having access to Apocalypse 6th edition.
Rolling Chapel Equipment List
Spoiler:
Armoured Pulpit: 50 points
Devout mechanics have converted one of this vehicle's cupolas or hatches into a heavily armoured pulpit from which a preacher can deliver inspiring, terrifying, and massively amplified sermons over the roar the heat of battle. As long as they are within 6" of a vehicle with an Armoured Pulpit, any units from Codex:Adepta Sororitas and allied detachments that are Battle Brothers with the Sororitas gain the War Hymns special rule. However, they may only use the "The Emperor Protects" and "Righteousness of the Emperor" hymns.
Any other units lack the faith in the divinity of the Emperor required to benefit from these rules.
Holy Light: 25 points
As the massive war machine crashes into the enemy lines, its gilded armour gleaming and its sacramental spotlights blazing, the eyes of the evildoers are dazzled by a pure white light and their ears fill with celestial music. Then the faithful charge out of the vehicle and rip them apart. [spoiler]
Assault vehicles only (including open-topped vehicles). When a unit charges out of a transport with Holy Light, it counts as having assault grenades and inflicts a Blind attack on all enemies it is charging, resolved at Initiative 10.
[Design note: One case where I didn't take Ovion's suggestion.... It's meant more to be more like a souped-up version of a Land Raider's frag assault launchers than like a Dirge Caster.]
Icon of Courage: 20 points
Looming literally larger than life, these holy images of Imperial saints past look sternly down on today's combatants and forbid them to waver for an instant. Friendly units within 12" of a vehicle with Icons of Courage re-roll failed Morale, Fear, and Pinning tests.
Vox Dei: 25 points
A soul-stirring, ear-splitting array of high-powered laud hailers inspires Sororitas at great distances. All friendly units within 18" of a vehicle equipped with a Vox Dei re-roll failed Leadership tests when attempting an Act of Faith.
[Design note: reduced the range of effect from 24" to 18" so it wouldn't have a 48"+vehicle base diameter and cover most of the table, reduced cost slightly.]
Deliverer Assault Shrine: 150 points
Ugly juggernauts converted from civilian mining vehicles, their hulls covered first with crude slabs of heavy armour and then with layer upon layer of devotional ornamention, Delivers can lurch across the battlefield with surprising speed. Flamers roaring, they slam into enemy positions and drop their front ramps to disgorge Sororitas shock troops or hate-crazed Frateris. BS:4 Armour: 13/13/12 HP:4
Spoiler:
Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Transport)
Force Organization: A Deliverer counts as a Heavy Support choice for a [Codex:Adepta Sororitas army.
Unit Composition: 1 Deliverer Assault Shrine
Wargear:
Twin-linked multi-melta
Two flamestorm cannons
Searchlight
Smoke launchers
Special Rules:
Assault Vehicle
Shield of Faith
Transport Capacity:
12 models
Options:
May replace twin-linked multi-melta with twin-linked heavy bolter or twin-linked heavy flamer: free.
May take items from the Adepta Sororitas Vehicle Equipment List.
May take items from the Rolling Chapel Equipment List.
Design notes: A poor man's Land Raider Redeemer, for which I'm now just totally taking Ovion's costing -- not sure on exact details (POTMs seems overvalued, Shield of Faith undervalued) but it all balances out:
LR Redeemer - 240
-4AV -40
Replace TL AssCannon with TL Multimelta -20
-Frag Launchers -10
-POTMS -30
+Shield of Faith +10
Total: 150
Sororitas Superheavy: 50 points
Spoiler:
Adepta Sororitas super-heavy vehicles are moving temples of destruction. Fortunately for heretics, they are also rare. Between the Sisterhood's preference for short-range urban fighting in defense of shrines and the Ecclesiarchy's on-and-off relationship with the Machine Cult, the Orders Militant actually have fewer superheavies per 100,000 infantry than the Imperial Guard.
In fact, most Sororitas "Ladies of War" are converted from the Baneblade and its variants, and they are rarely provided directly by the Mechanicum: Instead, the Sisters tend to acquire former Imperial Guard super-heavy tanks, whether by recovering wrecked ones from the battlefield, capturing them from traitor regiments, or simply "requisitioning" them from overawed Guard commanders and never giving them back.
A Sororitas Superheavy starts with an Imperial Guard super-heavy datasheet but adds the following special rules:
Retributor Crew: Increase Ballistic Skill to 4.
Rolling Chapel: May take items from the Rolling Chapel Equipment List.
Shield of Faith: As per Codex:Adepta Sororitas.
Holy Trinity Weapons: If the original Imperial Guard vehicle has lascannons, either as standard equipment or as an option, the Sororitas version replaces each lascannon with a twin-linked flamestorm cannon. Replace any heavy stubber with a heavy bolter and any autocannon with a multi-melta.
If a vehicle's dataslate already includes the "Sororitas Superheavy " special rule, the points cost is already included.
[Design note: Ovion's costing again, and that makes it applicable as an SR to any Baneblade variant or even Forge World superheavies like the Macharius, Crassus, or Gorgon!]
Storm Queen: 530 points
The Sororitas's most common superheavy vehicle is based on the Imperial Guard Stormlord. As a giant infantry fighting vehicle, optimized to carry infantry into combat and support them at short range and high risk, the very attributes that make it unattractive to the average Guard commander make it a favorite for the fiercer and more infantry-focused Sororitas. In addition, the Sisterhood makes good use of the Stormlord's troop bay, not only using it to carry squads of sharpshooting Retributors but often converting it to hold Exorcist missile launchers or even a towering minaret for a Ministorum Priest.
Spoiler:
As Imperial Guard Stormlord except
Special rule: Sororitas Superheavy
Options:
A Storm Queen may replace its troop bay with one of the following, reducing its transport capacity to 20 models and losing all fire points:
- Kriegsminaret: 50 points
The Kriegsminaret counts as an Armoured Pulpit, but with 12" range instead of 6".
Shooting attacks may target a Kriegsminaret separately from the vehicle on which it is mounted: It has T:6 W:3 Sv:6++. Any such attacks are at -1 to Ballistic Skill because of the height and mast-like thinness of the minaret.
[Design notes: Again, I'm going to adopt Ovion's math almost entirely: "Stormlord +50, 530pts. By my math, an Exorcist Launcher is 65pts. As far as I can gather, Transport Capacity is about 2pts per model.
So the twin launcher should be a 90pt upgrade. And I'd say +50 for the Minaret would be fine."
Flameblade: 575 points
[i]This Baneblade variant replaces the original's cannons with weapons more to the Sororitas' fiery taste, drastically reducing range but dramatically improving close-in firepower with a high-powered melta and a Titan-sized flamer. Once the Ecclesiarchy's mechanics are done with it, the Guard's general-purpose super heavy tank has become a specialized city-clearing, bunker-busting nightmare.
Replace hull-mounted Demolisher Cannon with Magna-Melta:
18" S:8 AP:1 Heavy 1, Large Blast (5"), Melta
Special rule: Sororitas Superheavy
Design notes: Adopting Ovion's costing -- +50 points for Sororitas Superheavy -- and bringing the Inferno Gun into line with 6th edition: "Assuming the Baneblade Cannon is equivalent to a 'Light Titan Weapon' (as per Warhounds / Reavers, as opposed to 'Heavy Titan Weapons' found on Warlords and Emperors), so a stright swap would be fine....Magna Melta for Demolisher is fine."[/i]
Sword of Light: 505 points
This modified Shadowsword replaces the giant laser of the Volcano Cannon with Melta Cannon, trading range and killing power versus other superheavies for a huge blast effect that melts through fortress walls and whole formations of lesser vehicles. What was once a sniper-like Titan killer becomes a brutal assault gun.
Design notes: Again, I'm following Ovion's costing and bringing the Titan weapons in line with 6th edition:
As per Titans, Titan Weapons seems to be costed equivalently across. Probably shouldn't be, but they are.
Melta Cannons are just Melta now....
Shadowsword = 455
+1BS, SoF +50
Now back to your regularly scheduled Penitent Titan discussion!
Also thinking of giant tank-chapels on tracks as the Ecclesiarchy equivalent of Titans, though nothing as ginormous as the one in the Witch Hunters two-page spread...
[EDITED 28 January to make "Sororitas Superheavy" wording more clearly applicable to vehicles that aren't Baneblade variants. EDITED 29 January to replace Baneblade's un-Sisterly autocannon with a TL multimelta on the Flameblade. EDITED 30 January to remove Stormlord's un-Sisterly heavy stubbers without replacing them with anything on the Storm Queen. EDITED 15 May (!) to replace the autocannon with a non-TL multimelta (both being 10 points) and the stubbers with bolters instead, rewriting the "Sororitas Superheavy" rule to make it even more generalizable. EDITED 20 May to replace IG lascannons with TL flamestorm cannons rather than regular flamestorm cannons, which seemed a downgrade.]
This message was edited 18 times. Last update was at 2014/05/21 02:16:17
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Well, the description of a penitent engine is the following:
To be a pilot of a Penitent Engine is to have committed a terrible crime, one so heinous that punishment such as imprisonment, exile, arco-flagellation or execution is deemed too lenient.
It certainly doesn't say anywhere that the penitents have to be voluntarily placed in one. Together with the whole story of wires and injectors forced into their heads, it seems more likely that the unfortunate souls placed in one are unable to turn on the sisters, rather than unwilling.
Considering that, it sounds very well possible to me that somewhere a fallen psyker to whom even being stuck in a penitent engine would be too lenient a punishment would be stuck in one of those. With his mind badly damaged by all the injectors rammed in it, his powers would be greatly reduced but not completely gone.
Alternatively, you could say that any high official could be stuck in a penitent titan, while only some of them are psykers. Those piloted by psykers would get the Psychic Pilot rule, and some rule that allows the titan to 'foresee' enemy attacks, giving him a +1 to his invulnerable save against any attacking models with a(n equal or) lower base initiative than himself. However, then there's still the problem of how the titan could work with like a dozen immobile pilots in different closed-off areas, if not by some sort of telepathy. I doubt a speaker system would work due to the amount of screaming the eternal torture would generate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/21 14:47:43
1400 points of EW/MW Italians (FoW)
2200 points of SoB and Inquisition (40K)
1000 points of orks (40K)
Just starting out with Ultramarines (30K)
Four 1000-2500 point forces for WHFB (RIP)
One orc team (Blood Bowl)
2014/01/21 14:58:55
Subject: Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
I am saddend by the lack of Laspistol on the Armoured Pulpit. Oooh - Laspistol with the following options:
Spoiler:
May replace laspistol with one of the following:
Autogun +0
Bolt pistol +1
Boltgun +1
Shotgun +1
Storm bolter +5
Combi-flamer +10
Combi-melta +10
Combi-plasma +10
Condemnor boltgun +10
Plasma pistol +10
Inferno pistol +10
Plasma gun +15
Must admit not really familiar with Frag Launchers, so prolly fine.
I didn't forget the improvements, including the drop for Transcapacity, that makes it 90pts total.
Like the Twin Exorcists are 130, lesss 40pts of transport capacity that it's replacing.
Ohhhhhhh, good point about losing transport capacity. You said that and I'd forgotten. Edit time!
Still not having the priest fire out of the pulpit though... not gonna fiddle about with +1 for a bolt pistol on a 500+ pt model!
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Brother Michael wrote: Alternatively, you could say that any high official could be stuck in a penitent titan, while only some of them are psykers. Those piloted by psykers would get the Psychic Pilot rule, and some rule that allows the titan to 'foresee' enemy attacks, giving him a +1 to his invulnerable save against any attacking models with a(n equal or) lower base initiative than himself. However, then there's still the problem of how the titan could work with like a dozen immobile pilots in different closed-off areas, if not by some sort of telepathy. I doubt a speaker system would work due to the amount of screaming the eternal torture would generate.
A regular Titan apparently is operated by the Primarch (i.e. chief pilot) having all sorts of crap plugged directly into his freakazoid Mechanicus skull. Presumably the other Machineheads in the Titan have their brains cabled into things to, 'cause thats how da Machine Cult rolls, yo. So it wouldn't be a stretch for the Ecclesiarchy to hot-wire the Penitent Titan's crew directly into the machine and each other, only with a lot less mechanical aptitude than the Tech-Priests and a lot less concern for whether the victim of such surgery was in constant pain, remained capable of coherent rational thought, or could ever unplug....
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
There are different ways of connecting too.
Some just sit on the chair and wear a VR helm or something.
Others are plugged in directly through cables.
Others intern themselves in a case, and give themselves entirely over to the titan, it sustaining them as they sustain it.
Very strange.
The Ecclesiarchy wouldn't do it themselves either, as that would be heresy.
There would be Tech Priests present to do it for them, and the Mechanicum would likely have produced to Titans for the Sisters in the first place.
Probably as a gift, or payment for a task they wanted that was a little.. off the books, and only relevant to the Mechanicums interests.
Princeps, right. Oops. Rare as they are, there are rather more than 18 Titans in the Imperium.
And yes, I imagine the Mechanicum would be more than a little ambivalent about the Ecclesiarchy having any of their precious Titans, let alone modifying one into a jury-rigged monstrosity best suited to suicide missions. Likewise I think the Ecclesiarchy would only plug cables into the brains of condemned penitents rather than sentence a "good person" to the Princeps job (or let a Techpriest control so much firepower in the middle of their army...).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/23 13:43:03
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Also, I wrote up my rough idea of a Penitent Titan:
Penitent Titan: 800 points
In some corners of the Imperium that are even darker than the rest, worship takes on gruesome forms. There are worlds where the devout build mighty effigies of the God-Emperor and fill them with heretics and criminals -- or with the innocent -- before setting the whole thing on fire. The Penitent Titan is the same cruel concept made into a war machine: A jury-rigged Warhound scout Titan with condemned sinners not only wired immovably in every crew station but bound screaming to the outside of the armour. Cables crudely plugged into the skulls of the condemned ensure they experience not only their own torment but one another's, and each time one dies it sends the survivors into new ecstasies of self-annihilation.
Special Rules:
Agile
Rage
Shield of Faith
Void Shields (1)
That Which Kills Us Makes Us Stronger
Every time the Penitent Titan loses a Hull Point, the controlling player may choose one of the following bonuses:
- The Titan moves an additional 2" in the next Shooting Phase if it Runs.
- The Titan gains +1 Attack and +1 Initiative in the next Assault Phase if it is in close combat.
If the Titan lose multiple Hull Points at once, it gains one bonus for each HP.
These bonuses are temporary: If the Titan does not Run in its next Shooting Phase, it loses all moving bonuses; if it does not fight in the next Assault Phase, it loses all bonuses to A and I. Subsequent HP losses will, of course, give the Titan new bonuses.
Design Notes: Trying to keep it simple, so it's basically a Warhound that trades one of its two Void Shields for Rage, Shield of Faith (6++), and That Which Kills Us Makes Us Stronger. I think this is a serious net gain, whose value I'd guestimate as +80 points.
Comments? How do we improve (a) costing and (b) the rules themselves?
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
I don't know if slightly editing the Warhound's profile is going to be enough.
After all, the warhound is (as far as I know) not meant for combat, while the penitent titan most definitely is.
1400 points of EW/MW Italians (FoW)
2200 points of SoB and Inquisition (40K)
1000 points of orks (40K)
Just starting out with Ultramarines (30K)
Four 1000-2500 point forces for WHFB (RIP)
One orc team (Blood Bowl)
2014/01/23 17:14:08
Subject: Sisters of Escalation, Ladies of War: BS4, Sv6++ Sororitas Superheavies AND GIANT PENITENT ENGINE
It can serve as a front-line combatant in an infantry war, but in an engine war, Warhounds pretty much drop like flies if they get caught in the open.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
)
1400 points of EW/MW Italians (FoW)
2200 points of SoB and Inquisition (40K)
1000 points of orks (40K)
Just starting out with Ultramarines (30K)
Four 1000-2500 point forces for WHFB (RIP)
One orc team (Blood Bowl) 
IMPOSSIBLE IS RELATIVE 
