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You know something that would be cool is to have a special rule for inquisitors in an SoB army where you can choose between a Radical Inquisistor and a puritan Inquisitor.

Maybe have it where a radical inquisitor can bring a retinue of psykers and get special psychic powers.

And maybe a Puritan Inquisitor gives PE (everything) to units within 24 inches.

Mind you they're Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors to match the fluff.

Radical Inquisitor very rarely works with Sisters, for obvious reasons. And when they do, they do not bring along squads of psykers if they can avoid it.

Yeah, radical inquisitors should be a "come the apocalypse" thing only.

Are you certain? The Inquisition can boss around pretty much anyone, and if a Radical says X, SoB are not really in a position to do Y, though they may not like it.

But Sisters are in a position -- namely, walking six feet behind the radical Inquisitor -- to have a "tragic accidental weapons discharge" right into the back of his head.

Radicals are usually slightly more subtle about being Radical than actual crazy Chaos folks with sigils carved into their chests.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Inquisition can boss around pretty much anyone, and if a Radical says X, SoB are not really in a position to do Y, though they may not like it.

Yeah. But would a Radical Inquisitor want to work with people that have much close ties with Puritan Inquisitors, and share much of the Puritan point of view? Certainly if they needed to do it, they would. But they would avoid it if possible, and they would refrain from showing their radical means as much as possible.

I'd like to see sisters get a big mech.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Inquisition can boss around pretty much anyone, and if a Radical says X, SoB are not really in a position to do Y, though they may not like it.

Yeah. But would a Radical Inquisitor want to work with people that have much close ties with Puritan Inquisitors, and share much of the Puritan point of view? Certainly if they needed to do it, they would. But they would avoid it if possible, and they would refrain from showing their radical means as much as possible.

It's still not really CTA. It's more like DA or AoC. Not BB either though.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Are you certain? The Inquisition can boss around pretty much anyone, and if a Radical says X, SoB are not really in a position to do Y, though they may not like it.

Sisters don't actually have to obey the Inquisition if the Inquisition demands they do heretical things. They are partners to the Ordo Hereticus, but not servants. Their primary duty is to protect the Ecclesiarchy's interests... and also to police the Ecclesiarchy to prevent heresy and chaos from taking hold.

Sisters are in an odd place in the Imperial hierarchy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
I'd like to see sisters get a big mech.

Of what sort?

A Dread? Something like a Knight? Or more like a penitent engine freakshow thing?

 Melissia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Are you certain? The Inquisition can boss around pretty much anyone, and if a Radical says X, SoB are not really in a position to do Y, though they may not like it.

Sisters don't actually have to obey the Inquisition if the Inquisition demands they do heretical things. They are partners to the Ordo Hereticus, but not servants. Their primary duty is to protect the Ecclesiarchy's interests... and also to police the Ecclesiarchy to prevent heresy and chaos from taking hold.

Sisters are in an odd place in the Imperial hierarchy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
I'd like to see sisters get a big mech.

Of what sort?

A Dread? Something like a Knight? Or more like a penitent engine freakshow thing?

Basically like a giant sister of battle. I know thats quite eldarish to have walkers with humanoid like proportions but it'd be cool to have something that doesn't look super clanky turtleback robot. Give it some sort of wrist or palm mounted flamer/melta weapons and it would be pretty cool. Think like those giant statues of imperial saints coming to life and brutally killing everything.

Probably won't happen as even Contemptor dreads still have that clunky robotic look and GW seems really taken with the whole pentitent engine concept. :(


But yeah, pretty much every codex now should have access to a Lord of War or big walker of some kind. Yes, I know that SoB can just take Knights as allies but I don't like the idea of diluting the army with allies. Plus theres nothing in the Knight codex about knightly houses forming associations with SoB convents like you get with marine chapters or the mechanicum. So they're not a fluffy choice IMO.

Neither do I. I don't'teven like the idea of including Ecclesiarchal units in my army-- no priests, no death cult, etc.

 Ashiraya wrote:
It's still not really CTA. It's more like DA or AoC. Not BB either though.

Agreed.

For our LOW we should get the Church Tank!

Want to increase your church attendance? Bring the church right to the mother effing door and burn their house down so they now have no where else to go

The Church Tank: accept no substitute!

3,000-point Churchtank. Actually a small example compared to those in fluff.

 SisterSydney wrote:
3,000-point Churchtank. Actually a small example compared to those in fluff.

Someday I'm going to convert and use that on the table

I just need a bunch of baneblade hulls and a 28mm scale NOT ruined church.

A chariot character mount, if only because I want an excuse to convert something out of https://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/Servath+Reznik,+Wrath+of+Ages

(Probably Fast, low AV, some kind of defense to make sure it doesn't get stomped quickly, better Impact Attacks from getting stepped on by mechanical horses...)

If ye gonna use some Warmachine, I'd rather use this :
https://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/Vessel+Of+Judgement
Maybe with the horse from the other model, though, because this guy would never be able make that big structure move. But well, Warmachine is pretty cartoony. They even took the “cold is turning you into a glass statue” thing from cartoon and made it a game mechanic (though Diablo and its clone did it before).

Ecclesiarchal Chariot of Fire. 65 points to make your Confessor or Missionary cosplay as Lord Humungus.

More AV than a rhino for a 3-wheeled bike? Is that not a bit much?

Heh. I hadn't made that comparison. Its stats are straight from the Khorne daemon chariot of murderkillingblood or whatever it's called.

Retroactively, I can justify it as a matter of "volume under armor." Rhino is a big empty box, so armoring it to any given thickness takes a lot of metal -- material required equals area times thickness. (This is one of the issues that killed the Ground Combat Vehicle program in real life: the Army wanted a well-armored vehicle with enough internal volume for a nine-man squad in back -- see http://breakingdefense.com/tag/gcv/). By contrast, a chariot is a relatively slender thing , so it doesn't take a lot of metal to armor those narrow facings fairly thickly.

Also, "a bit much" is the design aesthetic of all my Ecclesiarchy units.

I think an issue here, possibly, is that a lot of the "new Units" come from background fluff for the army. That explains, for example, why driving Church-Tanks would be a way to go: They're in the fluff already.

As such, because there is quite little Sisters of Battle fluff that expands on Units, etc, it is quite hard to go into the "completely new" section of thought.

Doing so requires a return to the drawing board, and how they came up with the idea in the first place, and the entire background to 40K, with Spees Mahrines being Roman legions, etc.

Sisters (and Inquisition) inspiration, from wikipedia:

The Sisters bear a resemblance to several knightly orders from Medieval Europe, such as the Templers and have a strong Gothic feel. Many of their heroines have the personae and attitude of Joan of Arc (especially in Martyrdom and Sainthood). Being an elite army of female zealots, they also bear some resemblance to the Fish Speakers from Frank Herbert's Dune universe[Citation Needed]

(And the Inquisition) The medieval version of it.

In order to "invent" brand-new THEMED units, one would have to pour over those sources and see if there is anything that can be conceived from them.

Anyone read Dune and could relate? (I have not...)

I fall firmly in the "no new units that are really just SM's packaged with bewbs to make them SoB" camp.

That being said, I'd rather we fix the few unusable units we currently have.

Celestians: Make them 20 pts each, same stats, give them a power weapon along with their bolter, allow the same special/heavy weapons they currently have, and give them all a rosarius. 3+/4++ is a nice unit that can make you think a bit.

Repentia: Make the Eviscerator a chain sword that grants a HoW attack on the charge, change the units act of faith to give them Smash attacks. FnP should be standard so long as the Mistress is alive. They need a points reduction to be realistically included.

PenEngines: FnP replaced with IWND.

Give the Hvy Flamer Immolaor Torrent. It's silly as it is now.

I have been playing my PenEngines and Repentia along with a Flesh Tearers strike force detachment that allows them drop pods. Give me a Sanguinary Priest HQ with a Jump Pack, a squad of Sister scouts, five drop pods to carry 3 PenEngines in on turn 1, They become a lot more fun to play, and a very tempting distraction that just might keep folks from shooting my scouting Dominions. The Repentia work as great area denial units in the second wave, or if things in the drop zone are going well, I drop them in along with everyone else just to get a hopeful turn 3 charge off. Drop pods may not be your thing, but I have tons of them and they go a long ways towards fixing two of the three bad units in our dex, so I am okay with them.

As far as new units go, I'm not really a fan of Sisters scouts (though my Flesh Tearers "counts as" scouts are made from WMH Sisters of the Flame models) at least in the sense that they are stealthy and sniper like. Doesn't seem like Sisters at all to me. Someone mentioned Sisters with Storm Shields and Power Mauls earlier in the thread. Would be nice to have a shrine defense Troop choice equipped like that, allow them to infiltrate on objectives to represent them being regularly sent to defend holy sites.

I actually had a squad of converted Seraphim on bikes back in 3ed, but I think they are way to SM'ish now.

Would be nice to have automated gun platforms with twin linked hvy bolter/hvy flamer/multi-melta as a non Heavy Support choice. Sister novels are chocked full of the things being set up to defend shrines and what not.

Sister super heavy Tank/Church with laud hailers and a huge apoc size torrent flamer template is on my list of things to build. Make it a LoW choice for the army and call it good.

Don't see a need for any termie sisters or centurion sisters. A ranged form of PenEngine, with a controlled SoB (not a heretic or penitent) pilot might do if you don't like the automated weapons platform idea. Kind of too much like a SM unit, so I would probably lean away from it.

A SoB transport flyer?

Earlier in the thread there was an idea for a flyer transport that could carry an immolator or an exorcist. that still sounds pretty awesome.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Would be nice to have automated gun platforms with twin linked hvy bolter/hvy flamer/multi-melta as a non Heavy Support choice. Sister novels are chocked full of the things being set up to defend shrines and what not.

Servitors would be an easy choice there, considering there's stats and models for them already in the game. Maybe up their point cost a bit to change their Mind Lock rule to work off any friendly Sororitas unit within 12", rather than needing an Enginseer/Tech Marine/Inquisitor in their unit.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Would be nice to have automated gun platforms with twin linked hvy bolter/hvy flamer/multi-melta as a non Heavy Support choice. Sister novels are chocked full of the things being set up to defend shrines and what not.

Servitors would be an easy choice there, considering there's stats and models for them already in the game. Maybe up their point cost a bit to change their Mind Lock rule to work off any friendly Sororitas unit within 12", rather than needing an Enginseer/Tech Marine/Inquisitor in their unit.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Support/SPACE_MARINE_TARANTULA_HEAVY_BOLTERS.html

I think that they are still Marine-Specific, but anytime soon these might be "Armies of the Imperium" Options

Imperial Armour Volume 2 2nd Ed for current rules

 BlackTalos wrote:
As such, because there is quite little Sisters of Battle fluff that expands on Units, etc, it is quite hard to go into the "completely new" section of thought.

It's really not hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Celestians: Make them 20 pts each, same stats, give them a power weapon along with their bolter, allow the same special/heavy weapons they currently have, and give them all a rosarius. 3+/4++ is a nice unit that can make you think a bit.

And yet they still strike at S3 I3 WS3 and are T3, making them very weak as a close combat unit, ESPECIALLY for twenty points per model.

Peoples' obsession with "don't make sisters too much like marines" is being taken to way too much of an extreme, especially since Marines stole a ton of ideas from Sisters to begin with. Relic Blades, for example, originated with Sisters of Battle as Blessed Weapons. It was stolen pretty much directly from C:WH.

 Melissia wrote:
And yet they still strike at S3 I3 WS3 and are T3, making them very weak as a close combat unit, ESPECIALLY for twenty points per model.

What about my suggestion? Surely at 14 points with 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, and a 2+, at S4 when the act of faith is on them, rerolling to hit AND to wound with a priest, AP3, then they are not that weak, are they? Not broken good, but still able to put a lot of pain on anything with a 3+ or less.

Hmmm.

How about 16ppm, WS/BS/I 4, A2/ LD9/ S/T 3.
Ditch the bolter, instead give them 'Blessed Blades' (AP3, S+1), keep their AoF as Furious Charge, or make it hatred. Give them Artificer Armor.
Actually, probably closer to 20ppm. Makes sense fluff wise. Ecchlesiarchy is the richest branch of them Imperium, and has less soldiers then there are space marines. When you think of it like that, that should be the statline of every Sister.

Maybe make it you need a Cannoness to take more then 1 squad.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And yet they still strike at S3 I3 WS3 and are T3, making them very weak as a close combat unit, ESPECIALLY for twenty points per model.

What about my suggestion? Surely at 14 points with 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, and a 2+, at S4 when the act of faith is on them, rerolling to hit AND to wound with a priest, AP3, then they are not that weak, are they? Not broken good, but still able to put a lot of pain on anything with a 3+ or less.

Ooooooor you'll just be cut down by I4+ assault troops before you can attack... Which is most of them.

The ones that aren't I4+ are far more durable or rarely taken.