Tank Heaven For Little Girls: Sororitas Predators, Oriflamme Scout Tanks, & Exorcist Ammo Options

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**SisterSydney**

I love Sisters. I love tanks. Given the lack of proper turreted main battle tanks in Sisters codices to date, these two loves have torn me in twain – but no longer!

[UPDATE: The final (?) versions of all these units -- and two dozen others -- are now in my Sororitas fandex/expandnex]

tl,dr:
- Oriflamme Scout Tank: basically an underarmoured Hellhound that has BS:4 and can Scout (and therefore costs more).
- Sororitas Predator: Basically a Predator Infernus that can upgrade to an Inferno Cannon (as on the IG Devil Dog) or, worse yet, an Avenger Bolt Cannon (yes, the thing that Navy strike fighters carry).
- Exorcists get a host of alternative ammo options, including small blasts, Skyfire, extended range, and a short-range “melta missile” with Armourbane.
- Firing flamers at Cruising Speed is back! (“Drive-By Purification” SR).
- Laud Hailers are back!
- 6++ save is no longer free (sorry) but can be bought as an upgrade (“Sacramental Armour”).

Constructive criticism is welcomed, vitriolic abuse is tolerated, and glowing compliments are encouraged.

[EDIT: These rules have been significantly revised in response to the great feedback from this thread: The new versions are on page three.]

Army Special Rules

Armour of Contempt

Spoiler:

Drive-By Purification

Spoiler:

Vehicles

Oriflamme Scout Tank (Fast Attack): 150 points
Oriflamme BS:4 Armour:12/11/10 Hull Points:3

Spoiler:

Sororitas Predator (Heavy Support): 100 points
Sororitas Predator: BS4 Armour: 13/11/10 Hull Points:3

Spoiler:

Exorcist alternative ammunition
Any Exorcist may load its Exorcist Missile Launcher with one and only one of the following types of ammunition, changing the weapon’s profile:

Spoiler:

Sororitas vehicle upgrades:

Spoiler:

**KalashnikovMarine**

We approve of this.

**SisterSydney**

Thanks, Kalashnikov -- that's one of my favorite weapons too (you can bury it in sand, retrieve it years later, clean it, & it still fires!), a fine example of Russian engineering, but even better is the T-34/85, the best tank of World War II.....

Yes, I love tanks. Did I mention that?

**pretre**

Why would we have to pay for the 6++?

Why does the pred have both front and sponson weapons, out of curiosity?

**Haighus**

pretre wrote:
Why would we have to pay for the 6++?

Why does the pred have both front and sponson weapons, out of curiosity?

Wanted to mention the pred hull weapons too. Also, the design notes for the oriflamme state that the disadvantage of the heavy flamer not benefiting from the +1 BS is offset by the drive-by rule, yet the drive-by rule says it doesn't affect fast vehicles, so the oriflamme wouldn't benefit. Should it be any vehicle moving over 12" doesn't benefit- that would solve the issue?
Oh, and 10pts to upgrade a S6 AP3 flamer to a S6 AP4 flamer, with torrent, seems a lot. More range, but worse AP. 5pts maybe?

I also don't think I would ever take the long range missiles, for up to 6 S4 shots with no blast. Seems way worse than the standard missiles, for 15pts. Maybe keep them as S8, with the reduced AP? Or possibly improve the AP too, AP3 maybe.

**SisterSydney**

All good points... including a whoops on my part with costing.

As for why no free 6++: Because no other army gets a free save on its tanks -- as long as the Sisters tank selections were horribly limited , free 6++ seemed a reasonable consolation prize, but with a proper tank inventory, it seems a bit much. Also "Armour of Contempt" includes a Deny the Witch bonus, not just 6++, so it's worth more.

Very good point about sponsons being the go-to for Predators' secondary weapons -- I'm probably thinking too much in WWII and modern terms, where every MBT has coaxial and/or hull-mounted MGs, but arguably I should nix that....

Thanks all! Keep the critiques coming, I learn from every one.

**Haighus**

SisterSydney wrote:
Very good point about sponsons being the go-to for Predators' secondary weapons -- I'm probably thinking too much in WWII and modern terms, where every MBT has coaxial and/or hull-mounted MGs, but arguably I should nix that....

Well, also in IG terms, all Russes get hull pintle and sponson mounts, the Vanquisher and Conqueror can get co-ax mounts too with FW rules

One hell of a lot of dakka can come out of one Russ...

**Mr Morden**

Vehicle upgrades

Suggest adding Searchlight plus

Holy Icon: Any friendly unit within 6” of the vehicle adds 1 to its Leadership for the purposes of Morale and Pinning
checks up to a maximum of 10. Multiple Holy Icons are not cumulative

Truesilver Armour: If a Daemon or psyker succeeds in hitting this vehicle in close combat, it suffers a Strength 6 hit for each hit once damage has been resolved against the vehicle.

**pretre**

SisterSydney wrote:
As for why no free 6++: Because no other army gets a free save on its tanks -- as long as the Sisters tank selections were horribly limited , free 6++ seemed a reasonable consolation prize, but with a proper tank inventory, it seems a bit much. Also "Armour of Contempt" includes a Deny the Witch bonus, not just 6++, so it's worth more.

It is a defining feature of the army now though. Also, I wouldn't pay 15 points for it.

**Troike**

Looks allright to me. Like I said, I can't help too much with the rules, but they seem decent enough. Lots of options, which is nice.

Also, typo in Drive by Purification. You said "is equally only by".

**Nevelon**

There is a limit on how far you can change a pred and still call it by that name. One turret system and a pair of sponsons behind an AV13 front plate. Drop the pair of hull mounted HBs, they break the mold of what can be done on that chassis. IMHO Sisters should stick with the rhino chassis, with all the baggage that come with it. It's not the be-all of armor, but if you want heavy MBTs, call in the guard, that's their job. Sisters share the same MO as marines, which puts a limit on what kind of tanks you should field.

I'd also drop the rear armor bustle. Rear weak armor is found on a lot of tanks. It's a balancing factor in the game. Having an upgrade that lets you ignore one of the primary weakness of armor is not a good idea. For what it's worth, I feel the same way about ceremite armor, which a lot of people slap on tanks. I'd actually be OK with sisters getting ceramite, ironically. If anyone knows the need to protect armor from meltas, it's the gals of the SoB.

**pretre**

That's actually not a bad idea. Ceramite armored tanks. Something new.

Maybe:
12/11/10 with Ceramite Plating

Makes a nice mid range that is resistant to melta.

**ClockworkZion**

I'm with Petre, the 6++ is coming from the crew in the tank, not the tank itself, so why are we paying for it? Grey Knights don't pay to use psychic powers in their vehicles.

Rules look alright, but the Pred should be cheaper and make the sponsons optional so they can be taken at lower point games.

I don't see a point in bringing up Salamanders honestly in your fluff. It just seems like your biting your thumb at them for no reason (especially when Blood Angels are the ones with a Fast Flamer tank).

That said, Gets Hot is meh in my mind. The old rule was flamers didn't need to be as precisely aimed because their AOE weapons, making them easier to get in the right "general direction", even at speed. Gets Hot tells me that somehow the weapon is getting hotter, but even when moving the liquid fuel in a flamethrower goes where you aim it because it's being forced out in that direction, it doesn't magically fire backwards on you. And where the fuel goes, the fire follows.

Make them fast when using Flamers instead. It's much less pants.

**pretre**

Oh yeah, and points are a bit too high across the board but that's just me.

**ClockworkZion**

pretre wrote:
That's actually not a bad idea. Ceramite armored tanks. Something new.

Maybe:
12/11/10 with Ceramite Plating

Makes a nice mid range that is resistant to melta.

I had an idea for a FA slot tank that had that statline (not the Ceramite Plating though). Idea was that it was a modification of the Immolator that traded the carry capacity for extra gun and armor. The idea was that the Avenger Bolt Cannons, Inferno Cannon and Melta Cannon were its weapon options.

All three are fluffy weapon types and are heavier than what is "standard" so it seemed fitting to go with them.

I think the Flamer one also exploded bigger and had a chance to explode even when wrecked (offset by a lower points cost)

I never did come up with a good name for it, and "Heavy Immolator" sounds silly.

**SisterSydney**

Lots of good ideas here. I'll definitely drop the hull-mounted heavy bolters on the Predator and stick to sponsons (and those are optional, by the way), and I'll probably drop the "gets hot" bit in the "Drive-By Purification" rule.

I'll still tempted by the AV+1 to rear armor upgrade, though. There's definitely a precedent in some of the Leman Russ variants -- although of course that's a significantly bigger tank.

Also, it still strikes me as odd that vehicles get a 6++ for free: That makes a Sororitas Rhino, for example, significantly better than a Marine Rhino that costs the same number of points.

For infantry models, the benefit of army-wide special rules is supposed to be considered towards their points cost, right? So why not for vehicles? Or do I truly misunderstand how that works?

**Haighus**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I never did come up with a good name for it, and "Heavy Immolator" sounds silly.

How about Conflagrator?

**Nevelon**

SisterSydney wrote:
Lots of good ideas here. I'll definitely drop the hull-mounted heavy bolters on the Predator and stick to sponsons (and those are optional, by the way), and I'll probably drop the "gets hot" bit in the "Drive-By Purification" rule.

I'll still tempted by the AV+1 to rear armor upgrade, though. There's definitely a precedent in some of the Leman Russ variants -- although of course that's a significantly bigger tank.

Also, it still strikes me as odd that vehicles get a 6++ for free: That makes a Sororitas Rhino, for example, significantly better than a Marine Rhino that costs the same number of points.

For infantry models, the benefit of army-wide special rules is supposed to be considered towards their points cost, right? So why not for vehicles? Or do I truly misunderstand how that works?

Marine rhinos can get some army wide options as well, depending on chapter tactics. IWND from Iron Hands or Scout for being the DT of a ravenguard squad. We also get smoke/searchlights for free, not sure if you still need to pay for those.

**SisterSydney**

That's a very good point about Chapter Tactics, and the Faith rules are basically our equivalent of those. I Exalt thee.

**ClockworkZion**

SisterSydney wrote:
That's a very good point about Chapter Tactics, and the Faith rules are basically our equivalent of those. I Exalt thee.

I'd like to re-point out that Grey Knights pay no extra fee for their ability to use psychic powers on their vehicles either (removes shaken/stunned).

So yeah, it's really not that odd for it to be basically free.

**SisterSydney**

Ok, I'm convinced.

**Troike**

Sydney, that typo is still there!

Yes, that sort of thing bothers me.

**SisterSydney**

I started life as a copy-editor and then married one, so I appreciate the importance of stamping out typos. (My current editor, on the other hand....). Fixed it now.

**Furyou Miko**

Not all the suggested fixes have been incorporated (The Predator still has the hull-bolters), for example. :p

My main problem is with the Avenger Bolt Cannons. That thing is massive. I could see it being put in as a Hull Mount, like the Vindicator's Demolisher Cannon, but attempting to Turret it? The turret would be the same length as the tank!

Thus, rather than your Sororitas Predator with ABC turret, I propose the following;

Sororitas Supressor (Heavy Support): 120 points
Sororitas Supressor: BS4 Armour: 13/11/10 Hull Points:3

Spoiler:

Since I'm here, I may as well throw this one at you.

Infernus Assault Vehicle (100 pts) Fast Attack, or Dedicated Transport for a Dominion squad.
BS4; Armour: 13/12/10 Hull Points:3

Spoiler:

**SisterSydney**

Some very nice ideas.

I spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out the length of the Avenger cannon and whether it could fit in a turret, actually -- if anyone has an Avenger fighter model and could measure that'd be very helpful, I couldn't figure out from pics whether it went most of the length of the aircraft (as on its inspiration the A-10) or not. That would determine if it's turretable.

And the Sisters definitely need an assault transport, albeit not a Marine-only monster like the Land Raider.

I'm not sure the Repressor works as a chassis for either , though, since the engine is presumably in front, which blocks any assault ramp or a forward-firing cannon....

**pelicaniforce**

Re: predator guns

The autocannon originated as the predator's main gun, at a time when predators were GW's only turreted, conventional looking tank. It absolutely wrecked marines.

I get that the predator does not seem like it has a real tank gun. It really really does, though, it's just that the AP system makes it seem impotent against marines. OFC, the autocannon is currently used as a anti aircraft gun, and power armor is basically the weight of aircraft armor.

anyway, the avenger cannon seems a bit big.

The bustle can be automatically included, instead of an option, the way all blood angels' tanks have lucifer pattern engines. I think if a rule is not very closely themed for fire or nuns, the list shouldn't make players spend a lot of time thinking about it.

If you're going to keep uparmored tanks, just make all tanks come that way.

I think one reason rhinos have only side armor 11, despite being very good technology, is the structural consequences of having pocket doors in the side. If they are going to have riot armor, they should just get bonuses against low str, high ap, or close-range attacks.

**Furyou Miko**

SisterSydney wrote:
Some very nice ideas.

I spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out the length of the Avenger cannon and whether it could fit in a turret, actually -- if anyone has an Avenger fighter model and could measure that'd be very helpful, I couldn't figure out from pics whether it went most of the length of the aircraft (as on its inspiration the A-10) or not. That would determine if it's turretable.

And the Sisters definitely need an assault transport, albeit not a Marine-only monster like the Land Raider.

I'm not sure the Repressor works as a chassis for either , though, since the engine is presumably in front, which blocks any assault ramp or a forward-firing cannon....

The IAV isn't an assault transport, lol. Its ramp is at the back - the idea is that it breaks through the blockade and the troops inside only disembark when they get to their high-value target.

Anyway, the Repressor is a Rhino chassis, and the Vindicator proves that you can hull mount a large gun on a Rhino chassis, meaning that the engine is not, in fact, at the front.

I believe the old cutaway art showed that the Rhino in fact has two engines, situated above the tracks in the side panels.

**Nevelon**

I don't have any FW books. Is the avenger cannon you are talking about the same one that the DA flyer uses? Because that one looks stubby enough to pack into a turret.

**SisterSydney**

Many good points (and doh is me about Furyou's Repressor variant not having "assault vehicle," I read that before I had my coffee...).

1.
I don't have access to a Dark Angels codex, but the Avenger I'm talking about is an Imperial Navy flier I've only seen in Imperial Armour Aeronautica thus far; the gun is basically a super heavy bolter with 36" range and 7 shots. (Mods, please note, I did not give away all the stats there, you'd have to reference an official publication for Strength and AP).

2.
As for engines blocking guns and ramps, once again I'm thinking too much in terms of modern AFVs with fossil-fuel engines and bulky transmissions. Heck, even the Army's prototype hybrid-electric Future Combat System AFV had two engines, one on each side above the track.

3.
And bustles make sense as an automatic upgrade from the standard Predator, without the finicky little rule about potential immobilization. That makes it worth a few more points, since you can now Flat Out without fear.

4.
The standard Predator options don't fit the Sisters: they don't use autocannons or lascannons.

Finally, I realize the many Brits on this board may misinterpret me because of our not-quite-shared language. When I say someone's ideas are "interesting," I mean that in the American sense of "I am interested in what you say and it may change my thinking on this matter," not in the English sense of "your remarks are so imbecilic that I wish you an agonizing death but am I too well-bred to say so." I had a lovely English girlfriend (Northerner) long ago and she was stricken when I told her something she said was "interesting."

**KalashnikovMarine**

I always said the GAU-8 Avenger (the real 30mm auto cannon) should have been mounted to vehicles. That's pure feth off at the rapid rate.