Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Fluffmasters, aid me in my quest for understanding! The current digital codex says Battle Sisters are "orphan[s] raised from birth to believe in the righteousness of their cause," while the White Dwarf 'dex say they are "raised from infancy to adore the Emperor." Older books -- Witchhunters, Chapter Approved 2002, Sisters of Battle 2nd edition -- don't mention this "from birth" thing, just that they're all from the Schola Progenium.

Also, if you read the "from birth/infancy" language closely, it doesn't actually say they're all raised in the schola the whole time, the indoctrination to believe/adore could start when they're still being raised by their loyal-imperial-servant parents.

If Sisters are not only all orphans but orphaned in infancy, that would make for a very different organization from one whose members come in at various ages from, say, 10 months to 10 years. For one thing, orphans-from-infancy raises another hurdle for having large numbers of Sisters, though frankly the Imperium is large enough it could muster millions of anything -- say, oh, left-handed narcoleptic redheads over six feet tall. But as someone who's increasingly interested in writing 40K fiction (see prosecution exhibits 1, 2, and 3), I'd be rather sad if there were no Sisters who could remember life with their parents and how that life came to a traumatizing, horrific end.

Obviously one answer to this is "the latest fluff says so, it is so," but I tend to take the fluff with several large grains of salt and mentally treat it as in-universe propaganda, so as a reporter I don't think two passing mentions is enough to settle the issue. Thus I appeal to those wiser. better-smelling, and more steeped in lore than myself.

Hmmm..Not sure who you want to reply (as it seems no one has touch this one), but my two cents worth is that the Sister's fluff is constantly changing, I'm not even sure if the two novels based on the Sisters still holds water.

The Imperium is vast, and I am under the impression that there is a lot of sisters, it would not surprise me that both interpretations are correct. I can see the Orders Majoris only accepting those from birth since they have entire worlds under their thumbs, but the Orders Minoris are probably more lax, and allows teenagers to join their ranks (with proof of course).

The hard truth is, there just isn't that much to derive from, only a few short sentences from the new codex. I would write stories from the human perspective, it is the key difference between the Sisters and Marines, Sisters are still a part of society, and actively live in it.

Yeah, the parents counting towards the indoctrination would seem to more or less fit, from what I can see. Hopefully, subsequent material will expand on this area a little. It's a very important part of SoB fluff, after all.

Cosmic_Seth wrote:
but my two cents worth is that the Sister's fluff is constantly changing.

Not really. The codexes have actually been quite consistent, bar a few minor changes here and there,

Cosmic_Seth wrote:
and I am under the impression that there is a lot of sisters,

As are many others, but the fluff actually puts the Major Orders at only 4000-7000 Sisters, and Minor Orders at 100-1000 Sisters. Yeah, given the vastness of the Imperium it's a little iffy, but that's what it says.

Cosmic_Seth wrote:
I can see the Orders Majoris only accepting those from birth since they have entire worlds under their thumbs, but the Orders Minoris are probably more lax, and allows teenagers to join their ranks (with proof of course).

Worlds being held doesn't matter, all Sisters come from the Schola Progenium, who only accept the orphans of Imperial servants. Also a teenager can never become an SoB, they all start their training from infancy. Gotta get that indoctrination done early.

Cosmic_Seth wrote:
The hard truth is, there just isn't that much to derive from

There's more than you think, it's just more obscure. A lot comes from older codexes and WDs.

Cosmic_Seth wrote:
Sisters are still a part of society, and actively live in it.

Actually, they actively isolate themselves from society. When not at war, they just stay in their monasteries, praying and training. Only the Canoness, and sometimes her Sister Superiors, has contact with the outside world.

Didn't the Cain books talk about this where children from imperial servants who are orphaned are raised by the Schola Progenium and depending on their aptitudes are sent on to further education sisters ,commissars and bureaucrats their is nothing about age mentioned I take it that being kids from loyal imperials the are already indoctrinated .

 dekinrie wrote:
nothing about age mentioned

Actually, we do know the ages. At least for SoB. This is from GW's old Inquisitor game:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071218114030/es.games-workshop.com/especialista/inquisitor/bestiario/repentia.html

So, going off of that it seems to go like this:
Upbringing at Schola: ?-12 years-old
Becomes a Novice (training to become an SoB): 12-17 years-old
Joins an Order and becomes an SoB: 17 years-old

Also, note how the Sister in that link joins a Minor Order after being blessed as a Novice. This shows us that Minor Orders recruit in the same way as Major Orders.

SisterSydney wrote:Fluffmasters, aid me in my quest for understanding! The current digital codex says Battle Sisters are "orphan[s] raised from birth to believe in the righteousness of their cause," while the White Dwarf 'dex say they are "raised from infancy to adore the Emperor." Older books -- Witchhunters, Chapter Approved 2002, Sisters of Battle 2nd edition -- don't mention this "from birth" thing, just that they're all from the Schola Progenium.

This is an excerpt from WD #211 which contained the first rules for Adepta Sororitas ever - it was published in 1997 shortly before even their first Codex:

"The Battle Sisters of the Orders Militant have many strengths. They are recruited from the fastest, strongest and most adept individuals to be raised by the Schola Progenium. Their training is total, honed across the millennia to ensure that every Battle Sister is more than a match for almost any foe. Their weapons and wargear are amongst the best the Adeptus Mechanicus can produce. These factors alone would make the Battle Sisters a mighty weapon in the Emperor's arsenal, but that is not all.
The Battle Sisters are utterly dedicated to the Emperor. Their one purpose is to strive for his honour and glory and to protect the Imperium from all threats. The faith of the Adepta Sororitas is unswerving; they are raised from birth to believe the Emperor is the only hope for humanity. Their pious, rigid way of life allows the Battle Sisters no room for pleasure, there is only prayer and war. There is nothing an enemy could offer them, they are impossible to bribe and totally incorruptible.
The Battle Sisters are one of the few bastions standing between humanity and extinction. The Sororitas must defeat alien dominance, rogue psykers, daemonic influence, heretics, blasphemers and apostates, or everything the Emperor has striven to build and protect will be lost."

Granted, this still leaves some room for interpretation like you did when suggesting that this could simply refer to their biological parents, though in this context, the text suggests this being something special, and I would find it odd if for some reason all parents of SoB kids would be more religious than those whose children became Guardsmen or whatever.

Moving on, I did manage to find something more clear during a quick search on archive.org, browsing the old GW homepage (which can occasionally yield a fluff gem):

"Trained from birth and equipped to the highest standards, these zealous servants of the Ministorum can be found fighting alongside other Imperial armies, or pursuing their own Wars of Faith across the galaxy."
- https://web.archive.org/web/20021112182207/http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/background/sistersofbattle/sistersofbattle.htm

Still no mention of the Schola, but the "training" part kind of insinuates it.

If you do a google search on SoB and the terms "from infancy" or "from birth", you will find a number of alleged quotes from a decade ago, which leads me to believe that at some time there was a text like this in a WD or on a GW homepage that I did not yet find, or which has escaped my memory so far. Unfortunately, I didn't find a source (then again I did not look very long), but it would fit to the above material, and that GW very rarely writes something completely new, especially when it comes to the Sisters.

Also, the 2E Codex fluff for Helena the Virtuous did mention she was "raised from infancy" in a Schola Progenium on Ophelia VII.
That doesn't help much for the entirety of the SoB, but I would regard this example (or precedent) as another piece of the puzzle.

SisterSydney wrote:If Sisters are not only all orphans but orphaned in infancy, that would make for a very different organization from one whose members come in at various ages from, say, 10 months to 10 years. For one thing, orphans-from-infancy raises another hurdle for having large numbers of Sisters, though frankly the Imperium is large enough it could muster millions of anything -- say, oh, left-handed narcoleptic redheads over six feet tall. But as someone who's increasingly interested in writing 40K fiction (see prosecution exhibits 1, 2, and 3), I'd be rather sad if there were no Sisters who could remember life with their parents and how that life came to a traumatizing, horrific end.

Aaah. This thread certainly explains why we seem to disagree on the "indoctrination level" of the Sororitas a bit.

I can certainly see that characters whose childhood differs from one another may be more interesting for an author, given that this would greatly influence the development of their personality and behaviour, but you are essentially posing a question which only you yourself can answer: Should you write your characters as per the current fluff ("raised from birth by the Schola Progenium" - WD #380), or should you apply artistic license in favour of a potentially better story? Given that this is Warhammer 40k, and that it is not uncommon at all for writers to deviate from studio material ("everything and nothing is true"), I don't think you would be in bad company. James Swallow himself (Faith & Fire, Hammer & Anvil) also seems to lean more towards an interpretation of the Sororitas that gives them unique childhoods when he made Verity and Iona siblings and thus sisters by blood, given that it is highly unlikely any one of them would remember the other if they were inducted at birth. Not to mention Verity's non-standard keepsake.

Personally, I think it is quite possible to write cool stories without deviating from the source material - it's just that this means a much constricting frame to move in, and that some ideas may well seem impossible to pull off without major changes ... like your stories not being about Battle Sisters but, say, Guardswomen, where attitudes such as the constant swearing are far less likely to clash with what the studio writing suggests. At the same time, I already told you that I find your Novice stories very fun to read, and that they've become a sort of "guilty pleasure" of mine, so I'm not exactly sure what I would like to see you do myself. But as I already said, this is a decision that you have to make for yourself. I like to believe that whatever you decide, we can only win, as long as you keep writing.

Troike wrote:As are many others, but the fluff actually puts the Major Orders at only 4000-7000 Sisters, and Minor Orders at 100-1000 Sisters. Yeah, given the vastness of the Imperium it's a little iffy, but that's what it says.

It fits to the frequency and volume of Sororitas intervention throughout GW's own material. We have detailed force organisation charts from the Third Armageddon War and the 13th Black Crusade, and both times even the Space Marines outnumber the Battle Sisters drastically.

Troike wrote:There's more than you think, it's just more obscure. A lot comes from older codexes and WDs.

... and I'm still hunting.

Thanks, all. I do see some wiggle room, in that the Sororitas would consider the piety of the candidates' deceased parents as a significant factor. Presumably the earlier the parents died, the better, from a Sororitas point of view, but candidates whose parents were exceptionally pious might be forgiven arriving at the ripe old age of five or six....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S: Just checking: Both your parents have to be dead for you to qualify for Schola, of course, but only one of them had to be an Imperial servant of some kind -- correct?

SisterSydney wrote:Thanks, all. I do see some wiggle room, in that the Sororitas would consider the piety of the candidates' deceased parents as a significant factor. Presumably the earlier the parents died, the better, from a Sororitas point of view, but candidates whose parents were exceptionally pious might be forgiven arriving at the ripe old age of five or six....

That is a valid interpretation of the setting - just not something that would fit 100% with the studio fluff.

"Every Battle Sister is an orphan raised from birth by the Schola Progenium to believe in the righteousness of their cause."

If this is so important to you, accept that you have to apply artistic license and then do it your way, like most Black Library authors do, too. For what it's worth, the most important thing for 40k stories is that they manage to capture the atmosphere of Mankind's struggle in the 41st millennium, and I'd say your stories actually do this better than some of the officially published ones.

SisterSydney wrote:Just checking: Both your parents have to be dead for you to qualify for Schola, of course, but only one of them had to be an Imperial servant of some kind -- correct?

I believe neither of the parents must be dead - it's just that circumstances may dictate that they might be unable to care for their child anyways. Perhaps some particularly fanatical "workaholics" may even surrender their kid willingly? In fact, if it were not for these options, I'd have a hard time seeing how a future Sister could be raised by the Schola "from infancy", but this way I could perfectly picture pregnant women giving birth to a child, only to have it taken from her the moment it is born, simply because some decree forbids her from having kids in her current position. Grimdark.

"The Schola Progenium is responsible for the care and education of orphans of Imperial servants. From the favoured sons of an Imperial Guard colonel to the children of a scribe posted to a distant world, the Schola Progenium cares for them all."
- 2E C:SoB

An example of this would be the character of Ivixia Dannica from GW's Inquisitor game, who was enrolled in the Schola Progenium as her father's regiment was raised for an Inquisitorial purge on her own homeworld (I guess this makes for two good reasons for her to be in a Schola - her father can't well care for her himself, and it may be dangerous to reside anywhere else but in certain "safe zones" whose inhabitants are beyond question).

Now that is interesting: it raises the possibility of what one might call "de jure orphans," children whose parent or parents are still alive but no longer have the rights of parents, whether because they voluntarily ceded those rights to the schola for a child they could not care for (sad) or because they were stripped of those rights without their consent (grimdark). I could even see Ministorum or Administratum officials "rescuing" children from an unsuitable parent -- say, a Guard officer who got court-martialed -- by declaring them legally orphaned and wards of the Schola... though I imagine these kids would have black marks in their file that would rule out selection for the Sororitas, Ministorum, or Commissariat.

From Dark Heresy: Blood of Martyrs

The majority of the recruits into the Adepta Sororitas are drawn from the Schola Progenium, having been identified by the Drill Abbesses as suitable candidates from an early age. A few may be transferred from outside organisations, in particular the ranks of the servants of the Inquisition, although this is relatively unusual and only undertaken following lengthy consideration.


Not a studio source obviously but if you want a precedent to get some wriggle room from printed material then it could be handy for that.

Dark Heresy being the Fantasy Flight roleplaying game, right? I know some people go into hives at the mere mention of it, but I'm glad you brought it up.

Hey, I told you about it in a PM!

But yes, that would be another example for licensed products pursuing a slightly different interpretation. On dakka, I often mention it in connection to sources portraying the Sisters using actual divine magic as opposed to "just" being highly dedicated and well-trained.

If you think you could get into P&P, you should give it a look. Some of its fluff is contradicting studio sources and some of its rules could use some tweaking, but all in all it's a pretty good game.
The completely new background it features - such as various locations or characters - tends to be very well written and inspirational, too.

Personally I don't see much reason why a grown woman could not 'get thee to a nunnery' and join the Sisters. If they can test her for purity, devotion and piety and if she can pass the physcial fitness tests et cetera then why wouldn't the Sororitas accept such a woman into their ranks. To me one fanatical zealot utterly dedicated to the God-Emperor is as good as another fanatical zealot utterly dedicated to the God-Emperor and the hang up about raising recruits from birth exclusively is a bit meh for me.

For me personally, it's part of the explanation for why the Sisters are so thoroughly brainwashed and indoctrinated, in turn allowing them to be (almost?) incorruptible and capable of performing their Acts of Faith. Having had a childhood means having memories of it, which in turn provides an anchor for doubt to take root - rather than each Sister essentially being a blank slate who literally knows only the sheltered life behind the walls of the Schola or, later on, a convent of the Sisterhood. This being a weakness seems like a foregone conclusion - why else would an author be interested in this if they would not plan to bring it up? And I'm not just talking about SisterSydney, but also James Swallow, who had his Hospitaller character Verity almost suffer a crisis of faith because her sister-by-blood had died whilst being a member of protagonist Miriya's squad. See the problem?

So in a way, I guess it also depends on how you interpret Acts of Faith. If you see them as divine magic or psychic powers or whatever, you may have less of an issue with an indoctrination that is not quite as complete as what the studio material suggests.

(that being said, there is of course the potential for a mindwipe - but I take this to be a rather delicate and costly procedure which would only be performed on particularly promising children, and even then this recruit would have missed out on a couple years of training ... I could see it work for an exception from the rule, and then just say she had to stay longer?)

I do see the point of the from birth aspect but I don't see that it should be necessary all the time, every time no matter what with no other possibilities allowed ever. Ever!

As you say, an author could, with a backstory outside the Sisterhood introduce some 'weakness' that allows a Sister to be less than perfectly incorruptable. Then again an author could have the backstory be the reason why the character is so utterly dedicated.

It can be made to work both ways just as I can also see the cloistered lifestyle giving rise to 'weaknesses' - the film The Devils with Oliver Reed is the kind of thing I'm thinking about, not in the context of what happens to the characters in that film but in the context of how a character's sheltered lifestyle does not make them immune to human flaws.

Yet the aspect about introducing a weakness in this way would be a deviation from the original fluff just for the sake of .. well, making the character weaker. As much as this might make a story more interesting (I like to believe there would be alternatives to this angle), it touches upon the very source of this army's spirit - their uncompromising dedication. For a lack of better examples, it might almost seem like introducing a Space Marine who, for some reason, didn't get his supernatural strength or toughness, which then becomes part of the plot in some story. But in doing so, don't you change the entire faction you're writing about? Sure, one could now argue about this comparison being apples and oranges, and that such a character would never become a Marine because he'd fail some minimum requirements. But isn't this the same as what SisterSydney wrote about in her latest short story - a Novice failing because she wasn't brainwashed enough?

Now, that Novice did get kicked out, which imho "saves" this aspect of the story, but if the Sisterhood can minimise the number of recruits failing in their last stage of the Novitiate simply by enacting stricter recruitment protocols, ...

... although this condition might even be part of some ancient tradition of the original Daughters of the Emperor on San Leor; that they would take the baby girls of surrounding villages (either with the parents' cooperation, or perhaps even by force) to induct them into their temple. I think that'd be kinda cool, in the context of the setting's theme/atmosphere.

And as for the cloistered life, whilst repressing the weaknesses attached to a "normal" childhood also giving rise to new weaknesses, this has actually been taken up by various sources - an example being the Daemonifuge comics, though here it occurred only briefly, to provide a contrast between the lifes of the Sororitas and that of the average human.
Actually, this makes me think. Why not drop the weakness of a new childhood and instead write a story about the negative side-effects of convent life? In fact, SisterSydney had already alluded to the potential when thinking out aloud on the possible future of ex-Novice Susan. Although I'd say that this potential could also be tapped for Sororitas characters in the pursuit of their daily duties - at any time they have any sort of interaction with local populace or allied Imperial forces. The possible culture clash should offer a lot of opportunities for funny/awkward or even dangerous situations, too, neh?

For example, to go back to SisterSydney's story, I now have this mental image of the smoking Novice having no idea how to use a cigarette because she's never seen one in her life, so when she's handed one by a Guardsman the first thing she tries is .. eating it. And then commenting (still with tears in her eyes) on how it tastes absolutely terrible, whilst the IG trooper looks at her stunned.

And that's just for the humour! We could also have a young Sister become critically ridden with guilt because her naivety caused her to help an apostate cleric, not seeing the signs of betrayal because ... dammit, he's from the church! They're supposed to be the good guys!

 Lynata wrote:
Hey, I told you about it in a PM!

But yes, that would be another example for licensed products pursuing a slightly different interpretation. On dakka, I often mention it in connection to sources portraying the Sisters using actual divine magic as opposed to "just" being highly dedicated and well-trained.

If you think you could get into P&P, you should give it a look. Some of its fluff is contradicting studio sources and some of its rules could use some tweaking, but all in all it's a pretty good game.
The completely new background it features - such as various locations or characters - tends to be very well written and inspirational, too.

I know I am blindly stumbling in and a bit off track but I must ask.... What about just the Inquisitorial handbook? Is their focus (in your opinion) more on training than magic or does it breach into the divine part in seriousness. Curious as I've wanted to try it out sometime.

Anyways, I'd presume most sisters are raised from at least a very young age. Probably latest being 5?

StarTrotter wrote:I know I am blindly stumbling in and a bit off track but I must ask.... What about just the Inquisitorial handbook? Is their focus (in your opinion) more on training than magic or does it breach into the divine part in seriousness. Curious as I've wanted to try it out sometime.

The Inquisitor's Handbook - which is from a time when Dark Heresy was still being written and published by Black Industries rather than Fantasy Flight Games - is much more ambiguous and allows for multiple interpretations, similar to what you sometimes read in GW studio sources. The Acts of Faith of the "IH Sisters" are much less flashy and obvious, chiefly revolving around willpower (resisting fear and corruption) or inspiration (gifting Fate points to others). The flashiest is the ability to banish a daemon, though I would attribute this to the Warp's (and its creatures') natural affinity to peoples' thoughts and emotions, basically "willing them away" in the same manner as they can resist psychic powers.

All in all, I highly recommend the Inquisitor's Handbook to anyone who is considering to play Dark Heresy. It contains a lot of new options for player characters (variant classes, equipment, backgrounds, new ways to utilise skills) and helpful advice for GMs - and it does not "suffer" (depending on personal preferences ofc) from the power creep and retconning that FFG's later supplements, written by different people with different ideas for the game, have introduced to DH.

StarTrotter wrote:Anyways, I'd presume most sisters are raised from at least a very young age. Probably latest being 5?

Well, as the discussion shows, that depends on at which sources you look. As with a lot of things in 40k.

Hi Sydney, before I replied, I read this thread and your Bolter B-Word story. I loved it, I'm sending it to my Dark Heresy GM, as I'm sure he'll love it, too. He and I previously discussed this issue regarding your question, and I share our joint interpretation in the hope you may find it useful for more stories. Btw, how much of your trilogy is based on your real life experiences? Because I think that's the aspect I really like, it's too creative to be entirely made up, lol. Here's the a summary of our line of thought regarding how the Soritas are raised:


1. Yes, they are raised by the Schola Progenium, at an age when they're still too young to question things

2. But the Schola Progenium is not 1 single academy, it's a general school system, so they can be very different

3. And the Schola Progenium is run by the Ecclesiarchy, which itself is insanely diverse, so it can be like anything


And I 100% agree with you, the "training" is more indoctrination than schooling. They have but 1 lesson: TO BELIEVE.

Can it be like a military school? Yes. Can it be like a madrasah? Sure. Can it be like a Catholic orphanage? We think so.

This is not a wishy-washy middle-of-the-road answer, because I feel it's supposed to be the whole grimdark joke.

But in all the cases, it's a very cloistered lifestyle. I like that example above of how a Soritas tries to eat a cigarette.

---

And here's my personal example, from a Dark Heresy game, with a GM who's fascinated by the Soritas (and is himself religious).

In our Dark Heresy game, I made a character like she grew up in the film Nacho Libre, the GM so wanted to make her Soritas.

The character is naïve, so much so her ignorance WAS her superpower. If what you don't know can't hurt you, she was invulnerable.

(Like she had powers against Chaos, but they worked against Tyranids, because she thought Tyranids looked like Daemons.)

Her whole training was 2 things: 1.) doing chores and 2.) loving the Emperor, which often involves smashing Daemons' heads in.

Her "training" that lead her into the service of the Inquisition could be summed up in this snapshot in her upbringing:



So when I read your Bolter B-Word story, we came from totally different directions, but it's the exact same.

It's not like they teach the Sisters what to do, as much as they teach the Sisters what to simply be.

And since you're writing about the Inquisition now, I humbly share with you a line I myself was saving for RP.



I'm pretty sure it's derivative of something, I'm betting I heard something like this from a manga, but it's a good line.

Hey, looking forward to more of these short stories, I think the sense of strength of these come from your life experiences.

Heya Sidney. Speaking to the number of available recruits. An orphaned child has lost one or more of its parents. Doesn't HAVE to be both. Soldiers being what they are I'd imagine that 40 weeks after an IG regiment deploys off world that there would be quite a few new mothers that could safely assume that the father is dead, or at least never coming home again. The Ecclesiarchy would surely take in those who couldn't be provided for.

 Lynata wrote:
And as for the cloistered life, whilst repressing the weaknesses attached to a "normal" childhood...

Snipping quite a chunk out of your post there but this is the crux of my issue with the studio background. I don't accept that a 'normal' childhood and even adulthood would or should necessarily give rise to terrible weaknesses that would proclude a girl/woman from entering the Sororitas. We can all come up with straw man arguments to support or deny the studio material and we have that right in order to enjoy the background in the way we prefer but, can we not envisage that a woman from a humdrum life could be so utterly devoted to the Emperor that, even having gone along with all normal social customs (getting a job, getting married, having children) this 'ordinary' life has been a denial of the calling she has always felt to fight for the Emperor, to devote her life to Him and that sees her give up everything she has built in order to pursue the life a Sister of Battle. Could not such a character be written to be as incorruptable as any brain washed baby?

I see the grimdark-i-ness of having babies put into this life (like the film Soldier with Kurt Russell) and I don't say it should not be the way things are done most of the time but I don't see that it should be the be-all and end-all of Sororitas recruitment policy. Anyway, rant over

"Normal" life gives rise to things like cynicism, sarcasm, irony, compromise.... not to mention all the various pleasures of the flesh like booze, chocolate, sex, etc. which are utterly absent from life in the cloister. Moreso, it gives the individual a sense of self-worth and a sense of their place within society, an expectation of self and an ego. Sisters do not have these things. The purpose of life is to suffer, and to suffer in the service of Him on Terra.

We can all come up with straw man arguments to support or deny the studio material and we have that right in order to enjoy the background in the way we prefer but, can we not envisage that a woman from a humdrum life could be so utterly devoted to the Emperor that, even having gone along with all normal social customs (getting a job, getting married, having children) this 'ordinary' life has been a denial of the calling she has always felt to fight for the Emperor, to devote her life to Him and that sees her give up everything she has built in order to pursue the life a Sister of Battle. Could not such a character be written to be as incorruptable as any brain washed baby?

Nope.

Many are called. Most are found wanting.

@Gogsnik
As well as mental indoctrination, which is indeed crucial, military training would also be an issue. An adult woman who had lived a relatively normal life up until adulthood would most likely never be as effective in combat as a Sister, all of whom have started training for war since childhood.

Another point is that adults are more of an unknown quantity. Through the Schola and her Order, a Sister has spent the vast majority of her life being very specifically shaped and moulded. They are exactly what they are intended to be.

Oh, also, one other, very important thing...

For the Sisters, their Orders and, often, their squads within their Order, is a family to them. Their superiors select each candidate and introduce her to the ins-and-outs of the Order, the squad, their battle-drill, their customs and habits, all of that sort of thing. The Sister Superior is very much a mother-figure to her charges, and is responsible for them, and to them, in largely the same way.

A woman coming to the Order in middle age may not adapt to this situation very well, if at all, being treated as some other woman's child, when that woman may be the same age or younger than she is. That's poor unit discipline and poor esprit de corps.

Yeah, well, I guess we shall have to agree to disagree on those points.

Agree to disagree? No, we must bicker endlessly IN BLOCK CAPS until the entire forum is awash in flame. Madness? This. Is. The Internet!

More seriously, to Gogsnik's point (err, that was an odd phrase to write), there are definitely places for faithful women to enter Imperial service as adults: the Guard, the Administratum, the Ministorum, even the Inquisition, where a certain worldliness is invaluable.

But not in the Sororitas -- nor the Commissariat or the Arbites, for that matter. Those are the institutions whose job is purity, both imposing it on behalf of the Imperium and policing other Imperial institutions in case they breach it: The Sisters police the Ecclesiarchy as well as fight for it, the Commissars police the Guard as well as fight in it, the Arbites police the planetary governors as much as they help them secure Imperial rule of their planets.

For these missions, an authoritarian regime (which, obviously, the Imperium IS) really wants people it has formed from childhood. "From birth" is a probably an ideal more than a consistently achieved reality, but the regime doesn't want them loyal to family or community, it doesn't want them influenced by other ideologies or values.

So I'm going to allow myself enough wiggle room to write Sororitas characters who entered the Schola as late as age seven. Any later and they might get into the Schola, but they're not going to be Sororitas, Commissariat, or Arbites material.

Hrrgg, weeell, maybe, possibly maybe I am coming around to it. Put in those terms SisterSydney I may well be coming around to it...

Yes..... Join us, Gogsssnik... join usss... your will to resisssst is fading.... join ussssss....

The serum is prepared.

That is...

... so wrong. So very, very wrong.