Soda Pop Miniatures have had a model range for Relic Knights for several years now and a game in development for nearly two. The game finally seems to be taking form and seems to have all the all the factions fully represented and has a hardcover book and new plastic starter sets as goals for the kickstarter campaign. The new black diamond models and concept art looks great.
I was contemplating going for Reaper Bones this evening then I saw this and snagged one of the early birds I've always really liked these minis (more so than SDE) be interesting to see how they expand this one the goals up to $100k are to add all 6 factions after that who knows. It's 13 minis (5/6 per faction plus 2 SE minis) plus Hardcover rule book plus loads of cards and tokens (no dice in this game) for $100 - and I swore after SW that was me done with KS for awhile oh well!
Minis are 32mm Heroic scale and the bigger Mechs with a cypher currently sell for $50 to $60 by themselves.
DaveC wrote:Minis are 32mm Heroic scale and the bigger Mechs with a cypher currently sell for $50 to $60 by themselves.
Are they? Every time I've seen one of Sodapop's non-SDE human models they've been incredibly skinny, which turned me off of getting them. (Looked to be a PITA to assemble)
DaveC wrote:Minis are 32mm Heroic scale and the bigger Mechs with a cypher currently sell for $50 to $60 by themselves.
Are they? Every time I've seen one of Sodapop's non-SDE human models they've been incredibly skinny, which turned me off of getting them. (Looked to be a PITA to assemble)
DaveC wrote:Minis are 32mm Heroic scale and the bigger Mechs with a cypher currently sell for $50 to $60 by themselves.
Are they? Every time I've seen one of Sodapop's non-SDE human models they've been incredibly skinny, which turned me off of getting them. (Looked to be a PITA to assemble)
They are absolutely a PITA to assemble. They are, however, some of my favorite miniatures that I own. Plastic should alieviate the assembly problems, and the gameplay is really unique.
It's a really fun system with great minis that I wholeheartedly encourage you to check out.
Despite (trying) to swear off kickstarters, I've gone in for this. I'll want to see a lot more figures added for the money though, else I'll drop down to a token $1.
Only 5 models per faction, even with a large mech or monster in each still isn't much. CMON, Sediion Wars and SDE have all raised my expectations quite a bit for this sort of thing.
Don't think I'll get in to this although it's cool to see the factions come together.
The transition from concept art to render on the Diamondback Assault Armor is HORRIBLE though. Bad ass concept, clunky awkward render. Hope that's just a WIP.
My brother and I are going in together on a $190 pledge. I just hope "four SE minis" doesn't mean "four copies of the same mini". Will see what happens as things go on.
I have to wonder about the size of the Black Diamond tank. From the looks of things, the Noh set comes with 3 heavy warjack and one light warjack equivalents, the Shattered Sword comes with 1 superheavy, 2 light, and 3 troops, but the BD only comes with two heavies and three troops.
Also wonder what the starters will look like for the other factions. Doctrine has a ton of models in their online catalog, but none of them seem very starter friendly. The faction sounds like a staid magic university, but all their models are characters from harem anime. (Not that there's a problem with that.)
However the optional extras just don't seem to be worth investing in at the moment they are close to retail price albeit they will be tooled in plastic - buying Fiametta and Hasami for $25 is only a $1 saving over the retail price - so you could get them now for almost the same price rather than save $1 and wait 9 to 10 months for them to ship. I was considering the Noh Beastmaster but the $35 seems to be for 1 beastmaster and 1 hound which is again about retail price.
EDIT CMON replied to my query about the Beastmaster he comes with 2 hounds.
I'm not too sold. Soda Pop minis are not exactly my facourites. I think the only one I like at this moment is One Shot. KS stuff doesn't seem very attractive to me. I won't jump on this like in SW or Tre's stuff. If I do I'll do it the lower levels, and next month.
I'm starting to get the feeling that there won't be much of a saving on the retail price (the optional extras are priced at retail price) and if I wait I can pick it up cheaper from the UK without the $50 shipping fee (and Customs/VAT as well) and the 2nd rulebook I don't need. It will all depend on how this grows and what the value is like near the end if I don't feel it's worth the extra €70/€80 or so I'm paying in shipping and VAT I'll drop it and get it later at retail.
I missed out on sedition wars due to being broke at the time, so now that i have cash this is tempting. Any comments on the rules? What's the game itself like?
The shipping prices kill this thing dead, just like CMoN store. Come on, CMoN, shipping a small parcel to Europe DOES NOT cost $25! Some companies even manage to offer free shipping upon hitting a certain threshold! With you it's the reverse - the more you buy, the more you pay for shipping, which is essentially a 25% tax for not living in the US. Then pray customs don't take interest in your "shipment". Can't you work it out some other way? Whenever I find something purchase-worthy at the CMoN store, I take a look at the shipping costs and feel like I'm being taken advantage of, because I know it doesn't cost that much. And now it's the same with your Kickstarter...
Wow - I'm quite a Kickstarter junkie but I think I'll have to pass on this. Just feeling the backer burnout. Over 6 projects now and still haven't gotten one in the mail yet. :-)
I think what happened was I looked at the pictures and all the shiny fan service and felt compelled to buy into the game. Then I remembered, The Internet.
-DE- wrote:The shipping prices kill this thing dead, just like CMoN store. Come on, CMoN, shipping a small parcel to Europe DOES NOT cost $25! Some companies even manage to offer free shipping upon hitting a certain threshold! With you it's the reverse - the more you buy, the more you pay for shipping, which is essentially a 25% tax for not living in the US. Then pray customs don't take interest in your "shipment". Can't you work it out some other way? Whenever I find something purchase-worthy at the CMoN store, I take a look at the shipping costs and feel like I'm being taken advantage of, because I know it doesn't cost that much. And now it's the same with your Kickstarter...
I agree. Shipping killed it for me (at least for now), though some of the Mini's are quite nice
Than again, I doubt I am much interested in the "no-dice, all-cards" gaming system anyhow (though I may be wrong).. just a mini or two for painting.
-DE- wrote:shipping a small parcel to Europe DOES NOT cost $25!
You're right, it costs $39.55 for USPS Priority Shipping*.
Shipping anything from the US to elsewhere in the world using a reliable service is ridiculous, UPS/Fedex would be even higher in price.
*Going off the cost to ship one of our starter sets to Poland. It would be $14.74 for First Class International Parcel, but that would take at least a month maybe more to get to the customer, which then causes some customers a lot of moaning about where their stuff is, so we (and several other vendors) don't use it. If their starter set happens to be smaller then a DVD box it could fit inside a Small priority flatrate box for only $15, but that's not likely... and that wouldn't cover shipping the book or anything else.
That's it, if you like the minis but don't live in the US, just buy them at your local store, it will come to less than if you participated in this KS, which is a missed opportunity on the part of CMoN. I'd rather wait till the game is available at the local stores and pay 25-30% less than pre-order this from CMoN now and pay more. That's bass-ackwards.
@Cyporiean - listen, it's cool you calculated this for me, but I HAVE ordered stuff from the US before. Some companies offered free shipping (which was, well, free), some shipped for between $10 and $15 (single miniatures for as low as $3 - CMoN's minimum shipping is $25 even if it's a measly blister). Number of miniatures, and I assume size of packaging, was close to what CMoN offers in this KS. Every single parcel arrived at my door in +/- 7 days. It is only ridiculous if you let it be so. Some companies like European customers, CMoN apparently doesn't.
However the optional extras just don't seem to be worth investing in at the moment they are close to retail price albeit they will be tooled in plastic - buying Fiametta and Hasami for $25 is only a $1 saving over the retail price - so you could get them now for almost the same price rather than save $1 and wait 9 to 10 months for them to ship. I was considering the Noh Beastmaster but the $35 seems to be for 1 beastmaster and 1 hound which is again about retail price.
EDIT CMON replied to my query about the Beastmaster he comes with 2 hounds.
Hmm. The Novitiates look even smaller than the Black Diamond soldiers. Have to wonder. Also find it odd that the extras offer is for the magical girl pair instead of the Tenchi Muyo prefect trio. Doctrine would probably be my go-to faction if I didn't dislike Kisa's battlecat.
I wonder if Cerci Speed Circuit will use Princess Malya as the Relic Knight or have Suicide Queen to go along with the Hell's Belles it'll obviously use.
The Corsair RK will obviously be Calico Kate, who from the preview pics on Soda Pop's website looks to require a lot of pinning.
Zweischneid wrote:Than again, I doubt I am much interested in the "no-dice, all-cards" gaming system anyhow (though I may be wrong).. just a mini or two for painting.
See, I find the card system interesting considering all the complaints about randomness in the recent edition of WH40k. You spend your cards, and your attack hits/ability triggers. No crossing fingers that the dice gods go your way. If you can count cards, you can also keep a fairly good estimate of what options will be available to your next unit taking an action.
Wife and I are trying to get in on this, gotta get some money saved. The $100 2 starter deal is perfect, plus the $35 add on dude with the laser-axe looking thing.
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Cyporiean wrote:
-DE- wrote:shipping a small parcel to Europe DOES NOT cost $25!
You're right, it costs $39.55 for USPS Priority Shipping*.
Shipping anything from the US to elsewhere in the world using a reliable service is ridiculous, UPS/Fedex would be even higher in price.
*Going off the cost to ship one of our starter sets to Poland. It would be $14.74 for First Class International Parcel, but that would take at least a month maybe more to get to the customer, which then causes some customers a lot of moaning about where their stuff is, so we (and several other vendors) don't use it. If their starter set happens to be smaller then a DVD box it could fit inside a Small priority flatrate box for only $15, but that's not likely... and that wouldn't cover shipping the book or anything else.
Very true. Canada isnt bad, but pretty much anywhere else gets expensive fast.
However, since we are in the USA, the wife and I just signed up for the $100 2 starter deal, plus $35 extra for the armor suit with the axe.
I've been wanting to see a game with these guys since they posted thier first couple.
I am outright confused as to how they want to play this game if all it is is just another card game, only this time, with miniatures. "Gotta catch them all..."... thats catchy.
Does anyone know how this game is played? are you manuvering around the table with them, or how is this card system used?
Do the old figures work in this game? what if you have one or two of them, such as the sniper, or guys... not in giant robots. Are they getting cards, as well, or do you write them back to get thier cards for thier particular faction?
Also- What is up with the figure- Sci Tech Ninja 1? Is that for real? If so, put me down for three of those.
I saw a demo of this game on youtube many moons ago. Think it was GenCon or Adepticon?
Seemed rather unique, with needing certain type of cards for abilities. A bit like Malifaux from the few minutes I saw. It is unique vs other game systems.
Not sure if I will kick start or not. I'm kick starter broke and would have to give up a game or 2 to get into this, beyond my capacity. Or I could stop paying my mortgage and dump my gf wich sounds easier.
Grot 6 wrote:I've been wanting to see a game with these guys since they posted thier first couple.
I am outright confused as to how they want to play this game if all it is is just another card game, only this time, with miniatures. "Gotta catch them all..."... thats catchy.
Does anyone know how this game is played? are you manuvering around the table with them, or how is this card system used?
Do the old figures work in this game? what if you have one or two of them, such as the sniper, or guys... not in giant robots. Are they getting cards, as well, or do you write them back to get thier cards for thier particular faction?
Also- What is up with the figure- Sci Tech Ninja 1? Is that for real? If so, put me down for three of those.
What faction is that one for?
Read a review last night. Apparently it's alternating activations where each player announces the next two figures to activate. Combat resolution is through spending cards. Every action a model can take is listed on their stat card and has an Esper cost. You pay this cost by playing a number of cards with matching suits from your hand, with every card having a major and a minor suit listed. Once the cost is paid the attack/whatever happens automatically, and then a number of cards equal to the attacker's appropriate combat rating are drawn and used to pay for additional triggers on the action. The defender then draws a number of cards equal to the target's defense stat and uses them to pay for defensive actions.
So I'd say it's probably as random as WH40k tends to be, but there's less "cringe" since you know whether or not you have enough cards in hand for an action to succeed.
Edit: And to answer your other question, the Sci-tech Ninja is Black Diamond, and I assume every force needs to have either a Relic Knight or a Questing Knight. The Questing Knights don't have the giant robots. They're supposed to be releasing cards for all the currently released figures at GenCon.
Piston Honda wrote:But it's a world where every woman has breast implants and all seem to be in a bending over position.
Could be worse. You ever see the Japanese version of the Lost Worlds combat books? Currently has had two anime tv series, several OVAs, and some truly disturbing collector's figurines.
Also, I would think if magic and superscience were invented, plastic surgery would be one of the most common uses.
Not getting too fussed over this one. I'm down for a couple of factions. I'll look at it in detail closer to the pledge date and either throw on some add-ons, or drop down to a $1 well-wishing pledge if it hasn't gained the value that I think it needs to have.
And yes - shipping is excessive - I get large boxes filled with 1:6 scale models sent from the US pretty regularly and they average around $100. But we're talking about boxes that are 16"x16"x23" and heavy. Certainly way bigger and heavier than even the "Get em all" level has any chance to be.
scipio.au wrote:Not getting too fussed over this one. I'm down for a couple of factions. I'll look at it in detail closer to the pledge date and either throw on some add-ons, or drop down to a $1 well-wishing pledge if it hasn't gained the value that I think it needs to have.
And yes - shipping is excessive - I get large boxes filled with 1:6 scale models sent from the US pretty regularly and they average around $100. But we're talking about boxes that are 16"x16"x23" and heavy. Certainly way bigger and heavier than even the "Get em all" level has any chance to be.
People keep complaining about the shipping cost being excessive, so I decided to check the USPS prices.
The commercial rates for overseas shipping are $17 for Small Flat Rate, $48 for Medium Flat Rate, and $61 for Large Flat Rate. Looking at the box dimensions, a Small Flat Rate could hold a single starter, assuming they're the size of Warmachine starters.
The USPS bulk rates are $4.96 per pound for non-priority and $5.63 per pound for priority, plus an additional fifty cents per piece.
Domestic priority mail is $5.15 for small flat rate, $11 for medium and $15 for large flat rate.
So the $25 for the Savior of the Universe level is a fair price, since adding the $11 for the medium flat rate they're already including in their calculations gives a shipping cost of $36. The $15 shipping for the Mercenary level is slightly debatable, and could either be an under or overcharge by one or two dollars depending on the shipping method they used.
People also seem to be forgetting that this is a Kickstarter, where the point is to raise as much money as possible to finance the project. Offering a deep discount on shipping doesn't help with that.
As someone who runs a gaming company and has done kickstarters I can tell you that offering a great deal on shipping just isn't always possible.
I don't mind paying actual costs for shipping, but overcharged shipping makes my blood boil. I'll wait until my next box from the US arrives and photograph it. USPS costs also become cheaper per unit - as in shipping 3x Saviour of the Universe will absoluely not cost 3x the cost of sending one unit. Still, who knows what kind of extras they'll throw in. CMON plan their kickstarters well, after all. So in the end it may well justify what today appears to be excessive shipping.
RogueRegault - you're forgetting that US backers get everything shipped free. So even if the US cost is "built into" the base costs - based on your post above stating that the costs are "about right", then overseas backers are still paying, say, $10 or whatever the local US shipping costs are over and beyond the "about right" costs.
In the end though, I'm not invested in this one, so it won't worry me to drop my pledge. As it stands it's certainly not worth the $335 I'm down for, but I'm sure CMON won't care and someone else will be happy to take my GGEA early bird slot at the 11th hour. Still a month for me to be convince me there's enough stuff there to justify $75 worth of shipping.
scipio.au wrote:I don't mind paying actual costs for shipping, but overcharged shipping makes my blood boil. I'll wait until my next box from the US arrives and photograph it. USPS costs also become cheaper per unit - as in shipping 3x Saviour of the Universe will absoluely not cost 3x the cost of sending one unit. Still, who knows what kind of extras they'll throw in. CMON plan their kickstarters well, after all. So in the end it may well justify what today appears to be excessive shipping.
RogueRegault - you're forgetting that US backers get everything shipped free. So even if the US cost is "built into" the base costs - based on your post above stating that the costs are "about right", then overseas backers are still paying, say, $10 or whatever the local US shipping costs are over and beyond the "about right" costs.
In the end though, I'm not invested in this one, so it won't worry me to drop my pledge. As it stands it's certainly not worth the $335 I'm down for, but I'm sure CMON won't care and someone else will be happy to take my GGEA early bird slot at the 11th hour. Still a month for me to be convince me there's enough stuff there to justify $75 worth of shipping.
cheerio.
I'm saying when they figured out their backer levels they took domestic shipping costs into consideration. The shipping isn't so much "free" as "This is the cost for shipping we have to consider for this backer level when we determine the dollar amount to set the pledge." And I already posted the price of shipping to England in a bulk set of boxes: $4.96 per lb. plus 43 cents per box if they're distributing ISAL, $5.63/lb. and 52 cents a box when distributing with priority mail. If the Gotta Catch 'em All package weighs more than 16 pounds (Extremely likely, since it includes three hardcovers and the equivalent of six dreadnoughts and 40 plastic troops, plus packaging) they're giving you a deal on the shipping.
Unless a company has a European distributor they can ship freight to there's no magic way to get cheap shipping overseas. It might not be worth it to you until a distributor in the EU picks it up for resale, but the company isn't trying to cheat you.
Now if you lived in Canada and they were charging for overseas shipping, that'd be a different story, since the post office's additional surcharge for shipping to Canada or Mexico is half that of shipping to Europe.
I don't live in Europe or England. I'm not going to argue the point for now, either. I'll post again when I get my next big priority mail box from the US in about 10-14 days with the price and weight.
"Hardcover" means very little by itself as well. There's a world of difference between my Descent Quest Compendium hardcover and my Badab War hardcover - and the only pic of the book that is on the KS page is basically a render.
You are right though that it might work out cheaper to buy it from the UK at retail with free international shipping. That's how I got my SDE. But as I also said in the previous post, they've still got a month to justify the listed shipping cost - just as the Reaper KS shipping may have seemed expensive when the KS started, that was before they added 34 more figures gratis, and presumably lots more to come.
A small flat rate box can hold a VHS tape.. (for those that remember VHS)
The Sedition Wars Kick Starter had the same prices to ship overseas since it was also run by CMON and I don't remember anyone complaining about shipping. Of course i might not have been looking in the right place for that.
I just paid 19 Eur to have a single miniature worth 30 Eur shipped from Spain to the US and it was worth it. It also got here darn fast with tracking information.
I know from my own business shipping anything overseas weighing over 1 lb is expensive and the price goes up dramatically for every lb. As pointed out in an earlier post.
So you just need to decide if it's worth it to you.
For Sedition Wars I payed $25 for international shipping, but it felt 'fair' in my head because I was getting nearly 100 minis and a tiles for a full-on board game. I'm tempted by this KS but in this case the shipping cost is giving me pause.
I would have thought by now- after going through this at least two other times, that COMON would have invested in a european partner or two for this issue.
It seems that this is a running discussion over on thier KS page as well.
For me- this is a great deal. each of those guys where I live would cost me around 60+ bucks for the larger ones, and up to 20 or so for the smaller ones. I put in for the six factions, seeing as the fire is in there for them. They will be at 100K in a day or two easily.
I'll be getting in on them, and probibly picking up the extras for each faction, as well.
Depending on how they look in person, we'll see if they don't fund a few other KS programs as well. I like them for diversion. they are pretty funny looking, and having them run around, shooting gak up makes it even that more insane.
Asked if they had avalable cards for the guys already out. I see theres a few cards in the blister packs- are these the same cards you need to play the game with?
I have a sniper that needs a job when the time comes. theres also this other one, shes a robot with a axe guitar doing her Foolie-Goolie imitation.
As a side question- Are there any more plans for SDE expansions? I see the one, but I would have thought that they would have taken the hint by now.
Grot 6 wrote:As a side question- Are there any more plans for SDE expansions? I see the one, but I would have thought that they would have taken the hint by now.
Absolutely. We're focused on Caverns of Roxor right now which will have a Gencon Prerelease and a September retail release.
Caverns of Roxor Expansion - $59.99
Fireflow Denizens Expansion - $29.99
Rock Top Gang Expansion - $34.99
Dragons Clutch $24.99
We've already shown a teaser of some 2nd Expansion masters and will be revealing more soon.
In theory they could ship to Europe much cheaper than $25 per copy but it would take bulk shipping which goes against the way Kickstarter works in terms of individual pledges.
I am strongly tempted to subscribe to Relic Knights, having followed and supported Soda Popo since the very beginning, but I wonder if my life really needs another SF skirmish game however nice it is.
Alpharius wrote:Good (possibly even REALLY good!) stretch goals are going to be necessary for this one to make 'serious money', I think...
It is already breaking into $100k without any stretches or at least as far as I can see. Except the "unlocks" but those aint exactly free
They're showing just how much they have learned. Note the three limited "Early Bird" versions of the Savior sets. By making those limited (even though the discount is relatively small) they encourage a whole lot of people to go in early and hefty, which immediately drives up their pledge levels in the early days. And like a nightclub with a long line, success breeds more success.
The initial batch of stretches were just to unlock the different factions. Now they're all open, we'll start to see what happens.
I like the idea of the Cerci (they remind me of Crumplezone and the Speed Planet from Transformers, which in turn remind me of the Ordos Raider from Dune II) and Shattered Sword, but I can't say Relic Knights appeals to me. I like anime - one of my favourite shows is one where you can transform a ship into a giant robot through sheer force of will - but there's something about this that rubs me the wrong way.
35$ Black Diamond (1model)
35$ Noh Beast Master (2/3models)
25$ Austrigan the Ogre (1model)
25$ Fiametta and Hasami (2models)
35$ Betty and Lug (2models)
25$ Kenobo and Squall (2models)
525$ (51 Models)
About $10.30/model ($8.80 in the US). However half of them would be the size of a light warjack from Warmachine.
So any guesses as to the Special Edition models? Cosplay Zineda looks like she's cosplaying Morrigan from Darkstalkers. I just hope the cosplay isn't all fighting games because the only one I care for is Rival Schools. I'm guessing the next one will be Rin Farrah dressed as Yoko from Gurren Lagann(Because who else would a sniper cosplay as?) The bottom right silhouette looks like Prefect Veronica in a Sailor Moon (Or some other magical girl) outfit.
Grot 6 wrote:As a side question- Are there any more plans for SDE expansions? I see the one, but I would have thought that they would have taken the hint by now.
Absolutely. We're focused on Caverns of Roxor right now which will have a Gencon Prerelease and a September retail release.
Caverns of Roxor Expansion - $59.99
Fireflow Denizens Expansion - $29.99
Rock Top Gang Expansion - $34.99
Dragons Clutch $24.99
We've already shown a teaser of some 2nd Expansion masters and will be revealing more soon.
Thats what I'm waiting for there... Go on ahead and take my money!
Having bought a great many Relic Knight models, I can't wait for this game to be released. That being said, the pricing on this has caused some hesitation. At the moment $120 buys my a rule book, some cards, and 2 factions containing 6 models and 2 free ones. That same price on Sedition Wars got me almost 100 minis, some of them the same size as a Relic Knight.
In addition to the factions, I then have to spend a further $25 to $35 to complete the faction (for thier special Character/s). On top of that the new unlockables are all pay for extra's. If I take the Doctrine Characters, Hasami & Fiametta as an example. $25 buy them both in plastic, or $24.90 buys them both from the website in metal. For $10, the Sedition Wars chucked in x2 of the same size models. So these are costing x4 the price of a recent CMON Kickstarter.
I'm in for $125 at the moment, but I really need to look at this as for 6 models per faction (of which I already own all the Metal / Resin versions and most of the Special Characters). Unless the model count goes up or something really good is thrown in I'm close to just waiting until Maelstrom are selling the game and not have to worry about P&P...
Its a shame I feel this way as I've supported Sodapop since they started and own most of the Relic Knight range, SDE and I pledged on their Tentecle Bento Game.
TheSecretSquig wrote:Having bought a great many Relic Knight models, I can't wait for this game to be released. That being said, the pricing on this has caused some hesitation. At the moment $120 buys my a rule book, some cards, and 2 factions containing 6 models and 2 free ones. That same price on Sedition Wars got me almost 100 minis, some of them the same size as a Relic Knight.
In addition to the factions, I then have to spend a further $25 to $35 to complete the faction (for thier special Character/s). On top of that the new unlockables are all pay for extra's. If I take the Doctrine Characters, Hasami & Fiametta as an example. $25 buy them both in plastic, or $24.90 buys them both from the website in metal. For $10, the Sedition Wars chucked in x2 of the same size models. So these are costing x4 the price of a recent CMON Kickstarter.
I'm in for $125 at the moment, but I really need to look at this as for 6 models per faction (of which I already own all the Metal / Resin versions and most of the Special Characters). Unless the model count goes up or something really good is thrown in I'm close to just waiting until Maelstrom are selling the game and not have to worry about P&P...
Its a shame I feel this way as I've supported Sodapop since they started and own most of the Relic Knight range, SDE and I pledged on their Tentecle Bento Game.
We may be witnessing CMON's attempts to perhaps... change the system so to speak.
To see how much they can get for how little that they have to commit?
It will be interesting to see where this all does...
Quickie update - what to do with those extra rulebooks?
Update #8
So, you've pledged, or are thinking about pledging, Double Savior or Gotta Catch Em All which come with 2 or 3 hardback rulebooks respectively.
You're a massive fan, obsessive collector or both so none of these extra factions are going to friends (mine.... all mine!!). You only need one rulebook. The other(s) is destined to be unloved and unwanted... sob...
Fear not! After the Kickstarter ends, we'll give you the opportunity to swap out any extra rulebooks at a value of $35 per book for something else you'd rather have.
Also, individual Faction Starters will be available at $50 per Faction Starter (inclusive of any Faction specific stretch goals hit, if any), for pledge levels of Savior or better. Great if you only want 3 or 5 Factions.
@Sean: I just vomited in my mouth a little after seeing that pic.
I am in this for $100 atm and it's hard not to want to add so many things to this as great minis etc etc, but remember for anyone thinking you can always just wait and purchase stuff when it releases.
Hmm. New stretch goals up. Now Yoko Rin is pushed back to 180k, 140k is plastic-core playing cards in the starter set.(Which I'd hoped they'd default to after redoing the cards in 2nd edition SDE. Seriously the only game with worse cards than SDE is Cadwallon:City of Thieves.)
160k are the GF9 style plastic counters that a lot of people like. I don't particularly care for them but they'll probably make my brother happy.
200k is "Base Insert Bonus Pack" whatever that is. (Hopefully bonus minions.)
220k is "Boost Level 1"
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Empchild wrote:
Cyporiean wrote:
Empchild wrote:@Sean: I just vomited in my mouth a little after seeing that pic.
that's far from the worst Yoko cosplayer I've seen.
Doesn't Make it right!!!!!
Any cosplayer without a muffintop is a good cosplayer.
RogueRegault wrote:200k is "Base Insert Bonus Pack" whatever that is. (Hopefully bonus minions.)
Base inserts are textured bases, without the base. Like these.
Empchild wrote:@Sean: I just vomited in my mouth a little after seeing that pic.
I'm going to agree with everyone else: I wasn't really a fan of the character design but if an attractive girl wants to run around in hot pants and a bikini top, I'm not going to stand in her way.
Sedtion wars didn't just dump everything down immediatly, you had to wait, and pledges had to rise
Second there are SE models there (some unlocked, some still to come)
If it's not worth it for you now, maybe it will be later
The larger pledges are better now than at the start as if you don't want the extra 1 or 2 rule books you can pick $35 or $70 of extra stuff instead, for eaxmple
Well the entire "Less figures thing" may just be apart of the game design
Zombicide is the zombie apocalypse so it makes sense you get a lot of zombies, somewhat similar situation with sedition wars as you control small army detachments.
This seems much more of a small skirmish game like Warmhordes or MERCS which for $50-60 you get roughly 5-6 or so miniatures in a starter box
Though they're not really my style, the miniature sculpts are both pretty and technically-accomplished. Since my girlfriend looked at Relic Knights and said "Ooh! I'd play that; there are cats!" I suspect I'll find myself investing in two starters, or more if the extras become sufficiently enticing.
The prices of these Relic Knights vs. what they are on the Sodapop website are a pretty good deal. Each one of those faction boxes would cost ~$70-$90 so getting 2 of them, 2 LE's and a hardcover rulebook for $100 is a pretty good deal...if you like the models. I do, the rules are just an extra for me.
The board game Sedition wars had a lot of models, but I had no interest in them so there was no value there for me. It's really up to the buyer, but comparing apples to oranges doesn't work.
Bat Manuel wrote:The prices of these Relic Knights vs. what they are on the Sodapop website are a pretty good deal.
Not sure on this. As I said previously, the metal versions of Hasami and Fiametta cost $24.90 from the webstore or plastic ones from this Kickstarter, $25. Remember, all the Relic Knight models are metal, resin, or a mix. What this Kickstarter is offering is plastic versions, significantly cheaper to produce, but we are not seeing that with their pricing. For $10 SW gave you x2 of the same size models as these making RK over x4 the price!
I'm not sure this Kickstarter will even make it to the $200k mark. I think CMON have really got their pricing wrong on this one. In addition (and I know its early days) there is little information on the models. Al the model pictures for the faction sets are showing their metal / resin models. Is the plastic one the same pose? Quality? What's the 'Playmat'?
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:First off give them time,
Sedtion wars didn't just dump everything down immediatly, you had to wait, and pledges had to rise
Second there are SE models there (some unlocked, some still to come)
If it's not worth it for you now, maybe it will be later
The larger pledges are better now than at the start as if you don't want the extra 1 or 2 rule books you can pick $35 or $70 of extra stuff instead, for eaxmple
Hey I pledged to get everything :p I am a huge sodapop miniatures fan ! I was just expecting a bit more ooomph
Bat Manuel wrote:The prices of these Relic Knights vs. what they are on the Sodapop website are a pretty good deal.
Not sure on this. As I said previously, the metal versions of Hasami and Fiametta cost $24.90 from the webstore or plastic ones from this Kickstarter, $25. Remember, all the Relic Knight models are metal, resin, or a mix. What this Kickstarter is offering is plastic versions, significantly cheaper to produce, but we are not seeing that with their pricing. For $10 SW gave you x2 of the same size models as these making RK over x4 the price!
I'm not sure this Kickstarter will even make it to the $200k mark. I think CMON have really got their pricing wrong on this one. In addition (and I know its early days) there is little information on the models. Al the model pictures for the faction sets are showing their metal / resin models. Is the plastic one the same pose? Quality? What's the 'Playmat'?
It's almost certainly true that some model to model comparisons are going to come out as better value for money. As noted above, comparisons to the faction boxes come out well. With other things, these extra packages, it seems they are laying options for expanding them (I too find them somewhat pricey for what you get).
Personally, I'm experiencing a bit of Kickstarter fatigue: I pledged for Sedition Wars, the Tentacle Bento homebrew Kickstarter, and feel that supporting Tre Manor's Red Box Games Kickstarter is important. That's a non-trivial amount of money to lay out, and so far I haven't seen any product: while I'm excited to see the sculpts from Sedition Wars, it's a little disconcerting that the pledge manager to finalize what we're getting hasn't even been put out yet!
That said, I think we can't really get into the habit of comparing every Kickstarter to Sedition Wars. That project was designed from the ground up with economies of scale, and was based around a very usable, if slightly generic, sci-fi trooper. So in terms of just weight of miniatures alone, I don't necessarily think the comparison is fair... or really useful. I mean, 50 sci-fi troopers is something that has a lot of utility (40k, Infinity, Warpath, etc); an extra 10 catgirls? Uh... I dunno.
As an aside, the relative values of "success" and "failure" here are rather amusing. I should think Tre is wishing he could be so unfortunate to cap out at $200,000! (Seriously, go throw some money at him, link above.)
Bat Manuel wrote:The prices of these Relic Knights vs. what they are on the Sodapop website are a pretty good deal.
Not sure on this. As I said previously, the metal versions of Hasami and Fiametta cost $24.90 from the webstore or plastic ones from this Kickstarter, $25. Remember, all the Relic Knight models are metal, resin, or a mix. What this Kickstarter is offering is plastic versions, significantly cheaper to produce, but we are not seeing that with their pricing. For $10 SW gave you x2 of the same size models as these making RK over x4 the price!
I'm not sure this Kickstarter will even make it to the $200k mark. I think CMON have really got their pricing wrong on this one. In addition (and I know its early days) there is little information on the models. Al the model pictures for the faction sets are showing their metal / resin models. Is the plastic one the same pose? Quality? What's the 'Playmat'?
Plastic does not always mean save money
When Wamahordes switched to plastic, the battlebox still costs the exact same for the exact same models
I think plastic is going to be great for these. I have a few metal Sodapop minis and they were difficult to assemble because they are so small and detailed. Plastic will solve that nicely. As far as detail is concerned. I have several of dungeon explore metals and also the same plastics and I can say that the plastics actually have better detail. One of the reasons I'm excited for these sets.
scarletsquig wrote:I give this one a few more days before someone bitches to Kickstarter about it being misogynistic and gets it banned. :p
Don't think that will happen - it was tagged as a "Staff Pick" on day one...I think the KS staff isn't against Payola. Remember, the granola chompers in NY have to pay for all their neat iStuff, and taking 5% off the top of one of CMoN's campaigns will buy a lot of iStuff.
I REALLY hope that this doesn't get the tentacle bento, that would potentially mean kingdom death couldn't ever do something like this (and I would totally be up for that as well).
Soda pop is cutesy sexist... but not near tentacle bento (and even that was a stupid decision after putting it up and staff picking)
Don't think it will get banned, but the crew over at Soda Pop is definatly revamping thier photos, and figures in some of the factions.Specificly, the "Ninjas", and the Killface headed pin up with the sword.
If Kingdom Death did a KS, I would definatly go over a hundred for that Wet Nurse... thing. That other one with the giant devil baby head would be a close second, I might even go over 150 for that one.
I'm really intrested in this and I'm absolutly going to buy.....
The only thing that puts me off is that it says that the models will be send in Mai 2013 Thats a long time from now.....
I'm having a hard time getting friends to go in with be do to the lack of true stretch rewards. I'm gonna get this regardless, they're just a lot more skeptical. I think they're shooting their monetary climb in the foot a bit by not offering at least 1 something shiny at the lower raising levels.
lucasbuffalo wrote:I'm having a hard time getting friends to go in with be do to the lack of true stretch rewards. I'm gonna get this regardless, they're just a lot more skeptical.
Same here, actually...
I hope it does well, but I'm not sure that this will approach the lofty heights of CMON's last two Kickstarters unless they put out some seriously impressive Stretch Goals...
I think they might have wanted to shuffle things a bit on the goals.
The "casino" quality cards and plastic tokens don't seem to draw too much attention. That is sort of expected out of a $100 game isn't it? I guess that goes back to CMoN's theory behind KS campaigns - throw out a goal which is way below cost and use the various stretch goals to make it seem like they are giving something extra but really aren't (paraphrased from the Wired article).
Hopefully they can keep enough attention to make it back into interesting stuff though.
lucasbuffalo wrote:I'm having a hard time getting friends to go in with be do to the lack of true stretch rewards. I'm gonna get this regardless, they're just a lot more skeptical.
Same here, actually...
I hope it does well, but I'm not sure that this will approach the lofty heights of CMON's last two Kickstarters unless they put out some seriously impressive Stretch Goals...
Once you get yours we will have to find time to game it together my good Alpharius! I am a little annoyed at the stretch goals as they give little to the desire to invest more then just my basic kits but I am certain I will add an addtional $35 to get the special model.
lucasbuffalo wrote:I'm having a hard time getting friends to go in with be do to the lack of true stretch rewards. I'm gonna get this regardless, they're just a lot more skeptical.
Same here, actually...
I hope it does well, but I'm not sure that this will approach the lofty heights of CMON's last two Kickstarters unless they put out some seriously impressive Stretch Goals...
Once you get yours we will have to find time to game it together my good Alpharius! I am a little annoyed at the stretch goals as they give little to the desire to invest more then just my basic kits but I am certain I will add an addtional $35 to get the special model.
Ill admit it takes a bit to get used to, since most other mini games have simply piled on more minis. However, after thinking about it I like the idea of getting a product that is better quality overall then it was first projected to be. Better cards, plastic counters instead of cardboard...kinda nice if you think about it.
is there a total force list of all of the Relic Knight guys somewhere?
I'd like to see exactly what is available game wise, aside from what is in the KS project.
The issue for me is that they are running out of steam, when they came out of the gate with almost 100 grand in a couple of days, then start blowing hot air for the later stretch goals. I'm getting to the point where I am wondering if they are taking themselves too seriously for selling pretty kitty-kitty catgirls.
Going to give it a few more days, and unless they really knock my socks off, might have to rethink this one.
As a side note- How do you think resale value of this game will be, if I do stick it out?
I have no problem with CMoN steering the crazy kickstarter boat away from PilesofFreeStuff Town, especially if it means that they are able to launch projects that way more frequently.
If nothing else it will lower the expectations for smaller companies trying to do their thing.
Grot - (Because I have no emotion invested in RK) I wouldn't be upset at all to see it fail to reach CMON's hopes/projections. As for resale value, I don't think it'll be huge at all. We're talking about anime fan titty models, and not a lot of them, either. If resale value was going to be large, this game would already have a huge fanbase. Grot - you may as well leave your pledge in place until the last few days before deciding to let it stay or pulling it. That's what I'll be doing.
Orlando - incorrect. Sedition wars added alternate sculpts at 60k and 12 additional models at 80k. This one is simply "unlocking" the factions that they plan to produce as part of this anyway before they get to the point of giving extra value from RRP.
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plastictrees wrote:I have no problem with CMoN steering the crazy kickstarter boat away from PilesofFreeStuff Town, especially if it means that they are able to launch projects that way more frequently.
If nothing else it will lower the expectations for smaller companies trying to do their thing.
Piles of free stuff is the "payoff" that makes this sort of thing more than a preorder paid in full 6 months upfront that can be more expensive than waiting for it to hit retail.
I think the potential success will be the same reason for potential failure of this game.
Anime theme is fine, it will appeal to some and others not.
But its big boob minis seem to show lack of any real imagination. I'm not offended by it in the least bit, but just seems like there is more to a female sculpt than boobs and getting into the doggy style position.
There are something I do like about these minis, and the game system from the demo seems awesome.
But just not over enthusiastic about this like I am for SedWars
lucasbuffalo wrote:I'm having a hard time getting friends to go in with be do to the lack of true stretch rewards. I'm gonna get this regardless, they're just a lot more skeptical. I think they're shooting their monetary climb in the foot a bit by not offering at least 1 something shiny at the lower raising levels.
This, pretty much.
The casino cards were "Wait, they didn't throw those in already after people complained about SDE?" and the plastic tokens and base inserts are "who cares?".
Throwing out a Black Diamond guy in a Lelouche/Zero outfit or a Corsair in a Captain Harlock outfit would do a lot more to keep me interested in the Kickstarter's success.
It also doesn't help that a lot of the "extras" feel price inflated. Unless the BD Assault Armor is dreadnought size I can't see plunking down $35.
Yeah I think part of the current slow down is due to the cards and plastic tokens not really being all that exciting an add on - the cards never should have been an upgrade they should have always been plastic core to begin with and there has been no mention of the tokens to date so no idea how useful they are. It's to be expected that things would slow down to about $7k a day at this time.
I'm actually happy that they are including the base inserts - provided they are like the sculpted bases that appear in the painted pictures and aren't something else.
There's probably another 10 to 12 or so stretch goals after the $220k (2 of which are Cosplay minis) if this thing can take off so plenty of scope for more stuff and Soda Pop Miniatures has hinted that the optional extras may have stretch upgrades which will make the prices a bit more reasonable.
I'd expect things to pick up again this weekend and once the the Cosplay Rin stretch opens up I'd say they are exactly where they want to be heading into Gencon
scipio.au wrote:Grot - (Because I have no emotion invested in RK) I wouldn't be upset at all to see it fail to reach CMON's hopes/projections. As for resale value, I don't think it'll be huge at all. We're talking about anime fan titty models, and not a lot of them, either. If resale value was going to be large, this game would already have a huge fanbase. Grot - you may as well leave your pledge in place until the last few days before deciding to let it stay or pulling it. That's what I'll be doing.
Orlando - incorrect. Sedition wars added alternate sculpts at 60k and 12 additional models at 80k. This one is simply "unlocking" the factions that they plan to produce as part of this anyway before they get to the point of giving extra value from RRP.
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plastictrees wrote:I have no problem with CMoN steering the crazy kickstarter boat away from PilesofFreeStuff Town, especially if it means that they are able to launch projects that way more frequently.
If nothing else it will lower the expectations for smaller companies trying to do their thing.
Piles of free stuff is the "payoff" that makes this sort of thing more than a preorder paid in full 6 months upfront that can be more expensive than waiting for it to hit retail.
I like piles of "Free" stuff. Especially when I pay for it.
On to Relic Knights, I decided that I would hold fast on this one. Infinity needs my attention more then t... these fine upstanding young ladies do, right now.
I'll keep my eye on it, of course. But they seem to have done the exact opposite from what they did with the other two KS projects. Not honestly really feeling it after it stalled three days ago.
Something about this one kinda ticked me off in a way I really don't understand.
All I can really say is that if your not dead-nuts set on a project, they can go either way.
Not really emotional, but there is something about how this one is going that really just leaves me not honestly feeling it.
GL to them, I as I said- will be watching this one.
very slow few days and Gencon doesn't seem to be having an effect yet it seems a lot of people aren't seeing enough reward for their money yet and the plasticore cards and plastic tokens did nothing to help matters
I'm thinking this isn't going to come anywhere near their previous releases.
As an example Sedition Wars had exactly 1 day with less than 40 new pledgers and that day was 38. And Relic Knights has already had 3. Not to mention actual income numbers. It had a stronger first three days and then kinda seems to have fallen over.
I just don't see the value even if some of the sculpts would be kinda fun to paint it just doesn't do it the same way Sedition Wars or Zombiecide did....
I doubt CMoN are feeling negative about it. They're probably going to end up with a couple of thousand people with their new game and a quarter million raised in a month...at least That sounds all good to me.
I feel like it may be in part because it is not a "stand alone" game like Zombicide or SW. It is a skirmish game more similar to infinity, and as such buying the whole thing gets rather expensive. You can't as easily bring over your box of relic knights. That, and many of the folks that are interested in the minis already bought them. and the initial concepts aren't as far along as the others, and the stretches look like the back of a napkin.
It doesn't yet seem like I would be getting a great value for my investment (some ROI can be expected in my opinion), so I will hold off until I see where things are headed.
I do like the minis, the concepts and what I have seen of the game play though. So, I am definitely interested, I just need more enticement.
I think they need to change up the way they're doing things:
A: Don't show so many stretch goals at once. It makes people discouraged when few of the stretch goals are appealing, and it locks the KS into a strategy it might be better to change in reaction to slowdowns and such.
B: Show more photos of finished models, especially with things to show scale. A lot of people(Myself included) were under the impression the Knights were heavy warjack size when apparently they're much larger. It's easier to get people excited with a physical product.
It's odd alright that they don't have more pictures of actual minis
The 2 pics attached (from Gencon) show that Betty and Lug are done and painted as are the Black Diamond Corps (minions) and the Paladins so why not show them off. You can also see how big the Noh actually are.
Unless this Kickstarter gets WAY better, I am pulling out in favour of the Dreamforge Titans. Just don't have money to do both after Kings of War AND Sedition Wars... AND ZOMBIECIDE!!!
I've said my piece on the pricing and that I think they've got it wrong on this kickstarter. Hasami & Fiametta are the same scale as the SW special characters yet are going to cost x4 the price!!!! The difference with ZC / SW is that with the models you had concept drawings or even 3D renders of every model you were buying. On RK what you have a is a description, but no picture. Or we have what we know the metal / resin version to look like, but unanswered questions on the plastic version.
For a $100 game with only x12 models so far (which it is if you buy x2 opposing factions to play against, 'Savour' level), I expect 'Casino Quality' Cards. I expect 'Plastic' Tokens. There is also no descriptions or answers as to what the 'playmat' is? Is is a 2ft square paper poster, or what we think it should be for a $100 game, a top quality vinal double sided print? Or is it something totally unrelated from my local Early Learning Centre???
The point is, at the moment there are a lot of unknowns whereas other comparable KS's had more defined stuff, and certainly more stuff for your money. We are giving up a lot of money, for something we can't actually see (as it's not been made yet), and committing the money 6 to 9 months up front. I really hope that the Sodapop team are just busy at Gen Con and we'll see some more stuff answered after this week or I maybe pulling out.
An interesting fact for you is that yesterday, even though the overall increase was up, about $1700 was lost in backers.
That'll be the big unknown I guess, how many people would this KS lose if it doesn't become a better deal within a few days of ending?
Personally I don't think that $100 for two sides of a TTG is weird, but I hadn't noticed that its played on a mat until it was mentioned a above.
RogueRegault wrote:I think they need to change up the way they're doing things:
A: Don't show so many stretch goals at once. It makes people discouraged when few of the stretch goals are appealing, and it locks the KS into a strategy it might be better to change in reaction to slowdowns and such.
That isn't going to help. Other Kickstarters see the same slowdown when they show one mediocre stretch goal at a time. If you don't want the slowdown, don't use stretch goals people don't like, or stick one in as a 5-10k goal to sweeten the deal when you see an unforeseen slowdown starting.
Makaleth wrote:Unless this Kickstarter gets WAY better, I am pulling out in favour of the Dreamforge Titans. Just don't have money to do both after Kings of War AND Sedition Wars... AND ZOMBIECIDE!!!
Darn Kickstarter, why do you love us so much!
Yeah, this. But there's more to it than that. I look at the concept art and the (finished?) figures and the figures fall far short of the concept art. I look at the stretch goals and meh. I look at the add-on prices and I baulk. Obviously the potential value will come when they "level up" the basic starter sets, but who knows if that will actually happen?
More to the point, I'm seeing greater value in my money going to the insane Reaper KS, and my "god dammit, I like that guy" money to Dreamforge. And my "small but nice" pledge to the Pirate Goblins.
scipio.au wrote: I look at the concept art and the (finished?) figures and the figures fall far short of the concept art. I look at the stretch goals and meh.
The (presumably) WIP of the mech with the big flaming axe thing really looks like complete garbage next to the concept art.
Yeah, I had another look at it all since my last post, and changed my pledge to $1 (from 3x Gotta get em all - $260+75 post). I'm out. Money will go to Reaper and possibly Dreamforge instead.
Though one or two of the add on minis is garbage i have seen many soda pop minis in person and they do not lack in quality. I wish they too had more models but lets see if i were to go buy two warmachine sets i would have between 8 to 10 models. I personally believe in quality over quantity but to each his own.
TheSecretSquig wrote:I've said my piece on the pricing and that I think they've got it wrong on this kickstarter. Hasami & Fiametta are the same scale as the SW special characters yet are going to cost x4 the price!!!! The difference with ZC / SW is that with the models you had concept drawings or even 3D renders of every model you were buying. On RK what you have a is a description, but no picture. Or we have what we know the metal / resin version to look like, but unanswered questions on the plastic version.
For a $100 game with only x12 models so far (which it is if you buy x2 opposing factions to play against, 'Savour' level), I expect 'Casino Quality' Cards. I expect 'Plastic' Tokens. There is also no descriptions or answers as to what the 'playmat' is? Is is a 2ft square paper poster, or what we think it should be for a $100 game, a top quality vinal double sided print? Or is it something totally unrelated from my local Early Learning Centre???
The point is, at the moment there are a lot of unknowns whereas other comparable KS's had more defined stuff, and certainly more stuff for your money. We are giving up a lot of money, for something we can't actually see (as it's not been made yet), and committing the money 6 to 9 months up front. I really hope that the Sodapop team are just busy at Gen Con and we'll see some more stuff answered after this week or I maybe pulling out.
An interesting fact for you is that yesterday, even though the overall increase was up, about $1700 was lost in backers.
That is a troubling sign - but hopefully CMON is paying attention and will address many of these issue, along with increasing the quality of the stretch goals.
Empchild wrote:Though one or two of the add on minis is garbage i have seen many soda pop minis in person and they do not lack in quality. I wish they too had more models but lets see if i were to go buy two warmachine sets i would have between 8 to 10 models. I personally believe in quality over quantity but to each his own.
You are, of course, right up to a point.
Successful Kickstarters really need both quality AND quantity if they want to generate a lot of pledges with high dollar amounts.
For better or worse, the "$100 Pledge" bar has already been set high and right now Relic Knights looks to be falling a bit short of it.
$100 is really nothing. It's a GW Storm Raven and a romantic dinner for two at McDonalds.
Yeah, the stretch goals kinda suck, but the product is really really good. I plan on doing the $270 because that seems reasonable to me. I pick up close to every mini and am only concerned about getting duplicate LE's.
What other skirmish game gives you everything for less than $300?
-precedent: SW and Zombiecide also have really nice looking minis, but hugely more minis--most notably these are also CMON-- I'd bet that there wouldn't be this backlash if SP had been independent, though there is still the precedent of SDE
-concept vs. execution: Infinity is the only generally realistically proportioned game I've seen with anime-influenced art that pulls it off in mini form: Anima and Relic Knights both end up fairly off the mark of their concepts
-timing: after a summer of strong kickstarters and it's currently gencon (and, will have had gencon in the middle of its campaign)
...not to say it isn't a success, just that isn't seeming like it has the chance to be a huge one.
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Bat Manuel wrote:
What other skirmish game gives you everything for less than $300?
Malifaux and Infinity won't give you everything, but they'll give you as many or more figures and have similar game sizes, so I'd say they're comparable (minus a play surface), and the old Specialist Games line would get you quite a lot of playable stuff for those $300, too.
Honestly, I think the $100 and $190 marks are just fine. A tabletop game BOOK (which everyone seems to be forgetting is included) is usually in the $50 range itself. So, book + 2 starters for $100 (including shipping, except for the poor Euros) is perfectly fine.
Its just that its not sexy. (The models surely are, and TOO much for for me in a number of models.) There just don't seem to be the bonuses that draw in the people who are not likely to be the actual gamers.
I don;t think that's necessarily bad. A $100 buy-in to a starting game is still a really nice price point. BUt when the 'bonuses' feel like things that should already be in the game (cards, markers, the FACTIONS themselves), it does look really disappointing.
And the lack of finished models, updates, or even pages from the book and the 9 month wait to finish the models makes Soda Pop look disorganized and in over their heads.
Still, the $100 buy in is likely to get my money, but I'm still waiting for something that forces me to invest.
Lets break this down honestly at the $100 dollar level, now you get a hardback book, 2 factions sets, and 2 limited minis.I have a retailer account with cmon and once this launches that is still about as good a deal as I will get purchasing it for my store and add to boot the limited minis. Now I agree that the cards and tokens should be already in that list but overall I see this as a great deal and if others don't then that's fine but we can't always be spoiled with killer deals as sometimes the companys just can't swing that for one reason or another. Now SW did give a lot more minis and that's great but what people seem to overlook is the size of the models vs each other. In the end if you don't want to donate then don't or hey pull out. I have removed my pledges before on several occassions for one reason or another and that's why it's a great deal vs. indiegogo.
Im in for the $100 savior pledge. Im happy with what is being offered. 2 starter sets, a (hardcover IIRC) rulebook, and 2 extra minis. The extra mini my wife wants has already been unlocked, and Im hoping it hits 180k as thats the mini I want. If it doesnt make it, ill pick a different one. Overall Im satisfied with what Im getting for my money.
TBH I dont need to have tons of extra minis thrown at me, as it is I already have a huge waiting list to build and paint...and Ive got Blackwater Gulch, Soda Pop, and Dreamforge kickstarters coming in eventually too.
Empchild wrote: I have removed my pledges before on several occassions for one reason or another and that's why it's a great deal vs. indiegogo.
I haven't used indiegogo-- so, are you not allowed to change your donation/wnatever?
They do have the "pay when it reaches it's goal" system but most of the people use the paynow with paypal. So once your start you can't stop... just like pringles (oo come on who wasn't thinking that). I am personally only changing my pledge once as I plan to add $35 before it's over to get the hunter guy for the NoH.
Empchild wrote:Though one or two of the add on minis is garbage i have seen many soda pop minis in person and they do not lack in quality. I wish they too had more models but lets see if i were to go buy two warmachine sets i would have between 8 to 10 models. I personally believe in quality over quantity but to each his own.
I've got a large pile of Reaper figures. Their quality is excellent. I have quite a few Reaper Bones figures, their quality is very good. I have a large pile of Red Box miniatures. Their quality is excellent. I have a number of Hasslefree miniatures (Kev White - SW sculptor). Their quality is (no surprises!) excellent. I have two resin DreamForge mechs. Guess what their quality is like?
You may find the RK figures to be excellent, I find them merely reasonable, and significantly lacking compared to their concept art. Case in point:
The demon is decent, but the girl, while an ok standalone figure is appalling compared to the concept art.
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Bat Manuel wrote:$100 is really nothing. It's a GW Storm Raven and a romantic dinner for two at McDonalds.
Yeah, the stretch goals kinda suck, but the product is really really good. I plan on doing the $270 because that seems reasonable to me. I pick up close to every mini and am only concerned about getting duplicate LE's.
What other skirmish game gives you everything for less than $300?
$100 isn't a lot of money in perspective, if you happen to have a job that gives you disposable income to waste on a frivolous hobby like this one, but that $100 is a lot of money to many people (like me, when I was a student and playing these games). On the other hand, that $100 has a lot of competing interests for it's destination. If I were invested in Soda Pop or Relic Knights, sure. But frankly I'm pretty indifferent, so it's money that could pay for half a Hot Toys figure, or a complete FFG boardgame with change, or 4 boxes of PSC 15mm tanks for FoW, or 5 XBox 360 games, or a bunch of Blu-Rays, or a big chunk of a Sideshow Collectables statue, or a pile of figures and paints from my FLGS, or..
...well, you hopefully get the idea.
With all due respect. I don't care about Relic Knights. I've never heard of it before this KS, so I have no emotional investment. The job of this KS is to make me care, to wow me. It hasn't done either of those things.
It'll also still be available after it releases - from stores. Including discount retailers that may well have the lot for sale cheaper than this KS offers and free shipping thrown in to boot (versus $75 shipping). And that's after I've had a chance to read reviews, et al and decide if the game actually appeals.
You see, the KS has to make me care and wow me enough to get past those "blocks", and it hasn't done so. That's why I pulled out.
And as Empchild points out, if they manage to make me care in the next 3 weeks or so, I can always go back in. If I have the funds with Sedition War's invisible CKPM, Reaper and the other things I want and have to pay for... (there's that competition for my $100 again!)
For all the guff about hardback rule books, there's a lot of variation in price and size on those as well. We know nothing about page count, rules length or content breadth. The only image of it is a render that makes it look about an inch thick. I'd imagine it won't be the same size as the 40k rulebook.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DaveC wrote:More pictures from Gencon by Morgan Kollin on the KS comments.
The Black Diamond Assault Armour looks far better painted and it's huge that's why it's $35.
You do have to wonder why CMON/SP aren't showing the actual photos on their KS page, dont you?
DaveC wrote:More pictures from Gencon by Morgan Kollin on the KS comments.
The Black Diamond Assault Armour looks far better painted and it's huge that's why it's $35.
You do have to wonder why CMON/SP aren't showing the actual photos on their KS page, dont you?
I don't think it is anything too nefarious - probably just the "Gencon Delay" striking again...
plastictrees wrote: I'm guessing they got the newly painted stuff just in time for gencon and figured that there's enough time on the KS to take proper photos next week.
I understand what you mean, but I'd have thought this week would be the ideal time to get the KS firing up as much as possible - showing photos would stir online interest which in turn would bump the stretches faster which would stir more interest from Gencon attendees. As I said before, my interest in this is largely academic now, but it's interesting to watch the way these things get run in their various phases.
This one is really running out of steam and needs all the help it can get.
The last 4 days have only seen an average of 26 new backers!
Ouch!
For something that started out so strong, the current pledge number is shockingly low.
Maybe it has something to do with Gencon taking people's attention, but I'd be willing to bet it has more to do with the initial offering and the lack of truly interesting stretch goals.
Here's hoping "BOOST LEVEL 1" at 220K is something worth getting excited about.
Another close up picture (again from Morgan Kollin) of Black Diamond Breaker Team (2 man weapon team) and the Black Dragons (the 2 infantry size suits). Rumour has it these may be part of the Black Diamond Boost levels though not all at level 1.
On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with some Kickstarters failing to meet their organisers' expectations. I think you were spot on in your post earlier when you suggested that CMON are now trying to "lower the bar" after adding so many extras to Zombicide and Sedition Wars, and finding out that doing so simply won't cut it, despite what is mostly a visually appealing campaign.
I don't think this one will come close to Sedition Wars or Zombicide. - Aside from obviously being much smaller on the miniature count, the weea-boo theme is much more niche than the mainstream-loving Zombie appeal or "straight" sci-fi without skulls everywhere. Additionally, it seems that quite a lot of people are becoming annoyed with CMON due to the lack of updates on SW and the separation of shipping dates/GenCon availability of Zombicide. If people think a couple of posts here on Dakka are "being sissies" then they should check out the KS comments for those games. Whether any individual thinks that these are reasonable reactions or not, they're eroding the goodwill that the niche of our miniatures gaming community has towards CMON. 30 secs to post a "We're still working on it guys, we dinnae forget ye!" update on SW CKPM is probably well worth the goodwill it'd save. Comparatively, SW had an incredible amount of goodwill from this gaming community has towards McVey in it's favour.
On top of this, Kickstarter Fatigue is starting to set in after Zombicide, SW, Mantic and all the smaller ones - and finally, Reaper has stomped into the room at the same time and is eating everyone's lunch - mainly by learning from CMON (well-worked out campaign, great value) - and cranking it up to 11. I've got no money left for Relic Knights because Reaper took it all!
Mantic's Space-blood-bowl game's KS that will be out in a few days may suffer from a lot of the same issues that this game does. RK can still salvage a lot though - by simply changing the "boosts" from whatever small increments they were obviously going to be into much larger ones. We can see Reaper doing much the same - they now know they'll never hit 4 million, so they've spent the last few days dropping 2 stretch goals into every stretch amount - and in turn it's kept their train powering along.
Another video from Gencon the first part is just a brief game intro if you skip to 2:12 they run the camera along the display case to show off all the minis.
scipio.au wrote: On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with some Kickstarters failing to meet their organisers' expectations. I think you were spot on in your post earlier when you suggested that CMON are now trying to "lower the bar" after adding so many extras to Zombicide and Sedition Wars, and finding out that doing so simply won't cut it, despite what is mostly a visually appealing campaign.
I don't think this one will come close to Sedition Wars or Zombicide. - Aside from obviously being much smaller on the miniature count, the weea-boo theme is much more niche than the mainstream-loving Zombie appeal or "straight" sci-fi without skulls everywhere. Additionally, it seems that quite a lot of people are becoming annoyed with CMON due to the lack of updates on SW and the separation of shipping dates/GenCon availability of Zombicide. If people think a couple of posts here on Dakka are "being sissies" then they should check out the KS comments for those games. Whether any individual thinks that these are reasonable reactions or not, they're eroding the goodwill that the niche of our miniatures gaming community has towards CMON. 30 secs to post a "We're still working on it guys, we dinnae forget ye!" update on SW CKPM is probably well worth the goodwill it'd save. Comparatively, SW had an incredible amount of goodwill from this gaming community has towards McVey in it's favour.
On top of this, Kickstarter Fatigue is starting to set in after Zombicide, SW, Mantic and all the smaller ones - and finally, Reaper has stomped into the room at the same time and is eating everyone's lunch - mainly by learning from CMON (well-worked out campaign, great value) - and cranking it up to 11. I've got no money left for Relic Knights because Reaper took it all!
Mantic's Space-blood-bowl game's KS that will be out in a few days may suffer from a lot of the same issues that this game does. RK can still salvage a lot though - by simply changing the "boosts" from whatever small increments they were obviously going to be into much larger ones. We can see Reaper doing much the same - they now know they'll never hit 4 million, so they've spent the last few days dropping 2 stretch goals into every stretch amount - and in turn it's kept their train powering along.
Pretty much!
They also had their second lowest new backer day and lowest funding day of the campaign yesterday, so I think that a post-Gencon review will lead to adjusted stretch goals.
Unless it is something spectacular though, it might be hard to overcome the lack of interest they seem to be suffering from now.
They are doing badly because quite frankly, thier communication is not very good in trying to get people excited about the project.
They started out, they had me on day 4. after two weeks, it fealt like a chore to keep up with thier lack of discussion going on. Then to top it off, the expansion goals really were kinda meh.
I am chaling it up to the SW treatment.
Lack of discussion, then blaiming cons as the reason to not talk and keep people informed.
And the Base inserts have been detailed but no artwork yet:
These decorative inserts are a great way to spice up your collection of Relic Knight miniatures with fantastic themed plastic bases. These bases feature clusters of "Esper crystals" on a sleek sci-fi spaceship decking texture. Each set comes with 1x 80mm, 1x 50mm, 2x 40mm, and 5x 30mm base inserts. Ok our concept guy is still working these but we'll get pics of these shortly. One set will be added to each Savior set (i.e Double Savior and GTGEA will have 2 and 3 respectively). So you'll have plenty of fancy stuff to fight over!
They should be available to buy extras as well.
Now for the interesting part the homepage now has teaser pictures for Boost Level 1 @ $220k
silhouettes for:
Noh Empire - 2 Berserkers
Black Diamond - 5 Black Diamond Corps
Shattered Sword - 5 Sword Sworn
Doctrine - 3 Novitiates
Cerci Speed Circuit - 3 Hell's Belles
Star Nebula Corsairs - 5 Corsair Crew
That's a nice few extra minis if that's the contents Gotta Get Em All level gets 23 extra minis potentially 30 if you doubled up on the factions with 5 extras for some reason
There will be a Boost Level 2 and Boost Level EX at some point.
why do the boost level pics SAY 180k, that's really odd
Automatically Appended Next Post: If these start getting big boosts, then I might be in.
Same thing started on the Bones one, just got too big to resist. But this is starting much smaller.
Not bad, but just not the same as the others at the moment. But I do want Candy and Cola!!
Good to see potential upgrades/possible additional models. I'm not loving that it shows repeats, but more is more.
Did anyone else notice that the N'oh starter changed? It was the blue-skinned demon woman, and now its the lamasuu-riding bearded demon. I think I like that...
Makaleth wrote: why do the boost level pics SAY 180k, that's really odd
Automatically Appended Next Post: If these start getting big boosts, then I might be in.
Same thing started on the Bones one, just got too big to resist. But this is starting much smaller.
Not bad, but just not the same as the others at the moment. But I do want Candy and Cola!!
The pledge level was 180k when the images were made. They're supposed to be experience bars.
drazz wrote: Good to see potential upgrades/possible additional models. I'm not loving that it shows repeats, but more is more.
Did anyone else notice that the N'oh starter changed? It was the blue-skinned demon woman, and now its the lamasuu-riding bearded demon. I think I like that...
Maybe the picture changed, but the contents haven't.
Update on our unlocks. Casino quality cards and plastic counters have been unlocked.
So has Cosplay Rin.
We're just a couple thousand dollars away from $200k and unlocking base inserts. Then it's on to Boost Level 1 which we have some teasers for.
Last but not least, if you've been wondering just how big some our models our, like the massive Diamond Back Assault Suit we shot this video at Gencon of everything laid out.
Theme would have some impact I assume, not everyone will like the excessive anime flavor to it. It really the only thing that is holding me back from contributing.
Reaper's Kickstarter might counter the fatigue argument a bit, but the anime style might cause some to stay away, but I still think that this isn't enough 'bang for buck' given what was offered in many of the other projects you listed...
Alpharius wrote: Reaper's Kickstarter might counter the fatigue argument a bit, but the anime style might cause some to stay away, but I still think that this isn't enough 'bang for buck' given what was offered in many of the other projects you listed...
Considering this newest goal more than doubles the low level minions in most of the starters, I think that's plenty of bang. Remember that all the other projects pretty much snowballed. There's supposed to be two other boost levels after this.
My only disappointment is the Doctrine boost seems kind of lackluster compared to the other five.
Makaleth wrote: I am with Alpharius on this one: Unless they add more in to this faster with build up at the end, it will not be anywhere near Sedition Wars.
But, maybe they don't want that.
you know, you might be right.
Could be CMoN is so overwhelmed with projects right now, they may want to minimize the production levels on this kick starter.
It's not like they don't have a lot going for them.
If anyone is worried about the booster minis just being more of the same basic minis CMON has posted that whilst not completely modular the minions can be assembled in a variety of poses
It's not a shouting from off the roof tops endorsement, but with the level of traffic they get I assume RK will only benefit from at least a few dozen extra backers.
As suggested previously, I backed some hot sauce on Kickstarter which I understood was bizarre even as I was doing it and I await these “fluids” with an admixture of curiosity and terror.
I love turn based tactics “experiences,” whether they take place in the confines of an LCD or with handfuls of metal and plastic, but I will absolutely admit to being obsessed at this particular moment with the travails of tiny men. We’ve been playing our Warmachine tournaments with a “shot clock,” which (combined with the inescapable physicality of movement and resolution) runs an electric finger up your exposed spinal column.
Until this year, I’ve never attended a single event at San Diego Comic Con that wasn’t related to Penny Arcade in some way. After something like a fething decade, I tracked down the tabletop room and sunk myself into a game called Malifaux that initially made no sense but, by the time I’d completed my first game, my animated doll-witch and her frost fiends had managed to defeat the samurai cowgirl(???).
It was completely diceless, which given my predilection specifically toward dice, worried me. I’ve played games with diceless resolution systems before, but they tend toward the storytelling end of the spectrum. In this case, something like a modified poker deck manages the numbers with solid theme and aplomb. It reminded me of something I’d heard about at PAX East, Relic Knights, which is currently being started via Kick. Their anime/pin-up vibe might not turn your crank, depending on the faction; systemically, though, buying attacks for models with their deck-based mana equivalent and tying draw to their actions got me cranked up.
There’s three days left on the Bones” Kickstarter Reaper is running, and it’s gone completely flying rodent gak since I looked last. It’s at almost a million and a half dollars, in large part because (like the most successful iterations of the model) it has a “happy medium” style pledge that swells with loot as the stretch goals are reached. Called “Vampire” - like Zombicide’s “Abomination,” or Sedition Wars’ “Biohazard” - it’s plump to the point now where it’s almost a “what the feth” scenario. It’s a good thing that the Bones line being funded consists of plastic minis, because if they fulfilled this order in pewter or white metal it would influence the tilt of the earth, killing billions.
There’s three days left on the Bones” Kickstarter Reaper is running, and it’s gone completely flying rodent gak since I looked last. It’s at almost a million and a half dollars, in large part because (like the most successful iterations of the model) it has a “happy medium” style pledge that swells with loot as the stretch goals are reached. Called “Vampire” - like Zombicide’s “Abomination,” or Sedition Wars’ “Biohazard” - it’s plump to the point now where it’s almost a “what the feth” scenario.
Note the references to Zombicide and Sedition Wars and their 100 dollar pledge levels/rewards. (Never mind Reaper!)
If Relic Knights ends up being a 'disappointment', well, I think we'll know why!
I'll still probably be in for Savior though...
The Noh and Black Diamond are too nice - and I'm getting tempted by the Speed Circuit too!
I can't really judge the disappointment or fulfilling feeling of a KS campaign based on just the number of minis I got at a pledge level.
In particular I am in on a KS for first and foremost for the game, the quality of the theme and miniatures. The number of miniatures takes a back seat, especially in the case of Relic Knight which a squad for the game really only consists of ~6 to 8 minis.
If you are more into the painting aspect of the Hobby or would like to have a ton of minis to use for other games (such as Reaper's Bones) than I could say those are the people who want a ton more minis for your money as appose to just a gamer looking for a high quality product in addition to high quality gaming supplements.
The number of minis is not the turn off for me, it's the strong anime flavor, and the poses for the women are more suited for a display model rather than a pose for combat.
I'm not going to go round and round with you on this one - you're either missing the point or, as you seem to be intimating, you don't care.
In that case - good for you!
I still think that the goal of these things is to generate as much income/pre-orders NOW in order to be deemed successful in terms of launching the brand, growing interest and paving the way for future success.
What I'm saying is that CMON could be doing all of those things a bit better than they are, especially as this game would seem to have more staying power than something like Zombicide.
Tough to compete with Sedition Wars though, sure - but this one sort of appeals to the same/slightly different audience at the same time - so room for growth there...
I see the added value people derive from quantity, but I'm with piston in a lack of caring. I'd rather have fewer, better models witha more solid game backbone then a bunch of them that I can think of no use for.
I think Alpharius is referring to success equating to "more" funding, being linked to more models.
If the relic knights added a single model per pack for each goal I think it would be going better.
Or a better reveal of what the later stage ones are. I think the same of the Dreamforge one.
All of the REALLY major ones I have been in have gained momentum because the volume of models kept attracting more people. Just having good rules and models is what attracts people to the game that already would be attracted or attracted them to the start of the kickstarter. The sheer volume of models is a big difference. Just look at what is happening to Reaper. Once it hits a certain point it just gains momentum
Makaleth wrote: I think Alpharius is referring to success equating to "more" funding, being linked to more models.
If the relic knights added a single model per pack for each goal I think it would be going better.
Or a better reveal of what the later stage ones are.
I think the same of the Dreamforge one.
All of the REALLY major ones I have been in have gained momentum because the volume of models kept attracting more people. Just having good rules and models is what attracts people to the game that already would be attracted or attracted them to the start of the kickstarter. The sheer volume of models is a big difference. Just look at what is happening to Reaper. Once it hits a certain point it just gains momentum
They could be re-working the next goals *hint, hint* to more reasonable levels.
Regarding the unlocked minions CMON also posted the following just now:
Regarding extra minions etc, we're working on alternate heads / weapons for the minions so you can mix and match to create more variety!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Next up -
$240k - Cosplay Fiametta as Sailor Scout
$260k - Boost 2 contents as follows (sneak peek in silhouettes but easy enough to work out except the Noh who is totally new) 1 per faction starter selected
Noh Empire - Female with hooved/beast type legs bow and quiver (new sculpt)
Black Diamond - 3 female Ninjas (new sculpts)
Shattered Sword - Isabeau Durand
Doctrine - Codifier Togan and Cecilia
Cerci - Rin Farrah
Star Nebula Corasirs - Iron Chef
Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff
Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.
But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line
The Cerci and Star Nebula boost 2 are a serious letdown. You get Rin Farrah/Iron Chief... which have Cosplay variants. Granted you could use that LE model selection for another model, but if you want something for your faction you are going to get duplicates.
The Fiametta Cosplay sealed me on going Doctrine. I wasn't a fan of the original fiametta sculpt, but the concept art for the Cosplay looks fantastic and will fit in great with the Prefects. Getting Master Roshi... er I mean Codifier Togan is just a perk.
Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff
Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.
But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line
Really though, why should I pay months in advance to preorder something I could just as well get at retail, and probably cheaper from a discounter? there **should** be some incentive... extra models from molds which have already been made are good for that - they don't actually cost all that much to produce even though you'd have to pay quite a bit to buy them at or near retail later...
Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff
Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.
But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line
Really though, why should I pay months in advance to preorder something I could just as well get at retail, and probably cheaper from a discounter? there **should** be some incentive... extra models from molds which have already been made are good for that - they don't actually cost all that much to produce even though you'd have to pay quite a bit to buy them at or near retail later...
the incentive is the Limited Edition Models.
Basically telling you only real way to guarantee to get them is KS or conventions and will be printed for a limited time.
only other possible way would end up paying someone on ebay for a lot more money.
Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff
Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.
But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line
Really though, why should I pay months in advance to preorder something I could just as well get at retail, and probably cheaper from a discounter? there **should** be some incentive... extra models from molds which have already been made are good for that - they don't actually cost all that much to produce even though you'd have to pay quite a bit to buy them at or near retail later...
Oh well no doubt there should be some incentives
But saying "We should be getting +20 extra models" is a bit much from what I gather from the chatter of zombicide and sedition wars. For all we know, we're getting a discount anyways assuming each battle set is $50, ergo you're getting the rulebook for free
kenshin620 wrote: Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff
I think they could get away with not using the "Throw gak at the wall and see what sticks" approach if they made a greater effort to have the rewards line up with what people actually wanted. I mean, if you had the choice between one of each Bones model or a $200 gift voucher to buy whatever Bones models you wanted, which would you prefer? The one that got you multiples of the models you liked best, and none of the ebay fodder?
BlueDagger wrote: The Cerci and Star Nebula boost 2 are a serious letdown. You get Rin Farrah/Iron Chief... which have Cosplay variants. Granted you could use that LE model selection for another model, but if you want something for your faction you are going to get duplicates.
The Fiametta Cosplay sealed me on going Doctrine. I wasn't a fan of the original fiametta sculpt, but the concept art for the Cosplay looks fantastic and will fit in great with the Prefects. Getting Master Roshi... er I mean Codifier Togan is just a perk.
Especially annoying is with the missing elements of the Rin cosplay (The ponytail, the skull barrette and other hair ornaments) the model is basically "Rin in a bikini."
Doctrine seems to miss out on Boost level 1 though. I'll probably stick with Cerci but there's a good chance my brother will swap from Star Nebula to Noh.
The Cosplay minis will have variant rules and cards - despite repeated requests they haven't added this information yet as the question of what to do with cosplay alternates of existing characters keeps coming up.
DaveC wrote: The Cosplay minis will have variant rules and cards - despite repeated requests they haven't added this information yet as the question of what to do with cosplay alternates of existing characters keeps coming up.
Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff
Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.
But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line
Really though, why should I pay months in advance to preorder something I could just as well get at retail, and probably cheaper from a discounter? there **should** be some incentive... extra models from molds which have already been made are good for that - they don't actually cost all that much to produce even though you'd have to pay quite a bit to buy them at or near retail later...
Oh well no doubt there should be some incentives
But saying "We should be getting +20 extra models" is a bit much from what I gather from the chatter of zombicide and sedition wars. For all we know, we're getting a discount anyways assuming each battle set is $50, ergo you're getting the rulebook for free
...a discount you'd get just the same if you buy from a discounter after release.
limited minis are fine, but they appeal to people already invested in a system. that's all good, but for a kickstarter project to really shine you'd want it to bring in new customers. Many of those don't care about having a character in a 'special' pose, or perhaps an altogether limited mini, but giving them *more* stuff, which actually makes the game a better value for someone not too heavily invested, that piques a lot of folks' interest.
of course a balanced mixture is best.
One problem with the "more minis" strategy might be that RK seems to be a decidedly low mini-count game - I don't know, not interested in the style so I won't be buying, just following this to see what CMoN will pull out of their hat now - so it wouldn't actually make sense.
Not really - they are asking for a loan without interest - there really should be some incentives in order to make this attractive and 'reward' the 'faith' of the backers.
And keep in mind, this project isn't due to ship until MAY 2013!
There are NO guarantees via Kickstarter - the rewards should balance out the risks!
Why would that be "very, very high?" PP starters are $50 and are usually 2 50mm, a 40mm, and a 30mm base. All plastic at this point. Infinity starters are 6 25mm, all metal, and $50
The Relic Knights are looking at 1 80mm, at least 1 50mm, and more. And at mixed plastic and metal. Where is there an 80mm model for less than $40? (Other than the Bones Kickstarter...)
Its high for a starting product to a game, yeah, I agree. But given the scale of models, with a significant number of larger-than-average tabletop models, I don't think its an unreasonable amount.
And, I have to say, I have gone back and forth on this Kickstarter. I supported it at first because I though the game could be good, though I didn't love the models. Then, this week I've been so turned off by the lack of communication and the poor bonuses, ESPECIALLY the repeated additional models from the starter.
Now, if everything is true, the 300K goals look solid, and I could see this going to 4-500K (and hopefully more solid goals along the way.)
Here's an interesting post from Deke at Soda Pop - the Cosplay minis not only have variant rules but don't all belong to faction you think they should.
All Cosplay characters (except Marie-Claude) represent a Darkspace alternate of their normal version. These Darkspace alternates will possess slightly different rules and in most cases are fielded by different factions.
Marie-Claude will be a second Questing Knight for the Cerci Speed Circuit Faction.
Darkspace Candy & Cola (Cerci Speed Circuit)
"Racers aren't the only thing that can go fast. My kicks are quicker than the blink of an eye."
Darkspace Iron Chef (Black Diamond)
"No matter the mission all I need is my trusty box."
Darkspace Rin Farrah (Noh Empire)
"Not all who are enslaved are broken."
Darkspace Fiametta (Shattered Sword)
"Whether in this universe or another I will defend you with my life!"
Darkspace Zineda (Doctrine)
"Their mastery of Esper is unparallelled and I crave its power"
We will work on getting this info and several other questions into the FAQ so they are more easily accessible.
I am back in on this now I can swap out the rule book for $35 worth of extra models. I had no need for the rulebook as I just want these to build and paint.
drazz wrote: Why would that be "very, very high?" PP starters are $50 and are usually 2 50mm, a 40mm, and a 30mm base. All plastic at this point. Infinity starters are 6 25mm, all metal, and $50
The Relic Knights are looking at 1 80mm, at least 1 50mm, and more. And at mixed plastic and metal. Where is there an 80mm model for less than $40? (Other than the Bones Kickstarter...)
Its high for a starting product to a game, yeah, I agree. But given the scale of models, with a significant number of larger-than-average tabletop models, I don't think its an unreasonable amount.
And, I have to say, I have gone back and forth on this Kickstarter. I supported it at first because I though the game could be good, though I didn't love the models. Then, this week I've been so turned off by the lack of communication and the poor bonuses, ESPECIALLY the repeated additional models from the starter.
Now, if everything is true, the 300K goals look solid, and I could see this going to 4-500K (and hopefully more solid goals along the way.)
Yeah, but keep in mind that the PP starters are "plastic" meaning resin. Meaning more costly to make. Infinity are metal, and the price of said metal is ridiculous and rising, last I checked.
Also, the Relic Knights won't have to factor in as much, if any, mold costs to starter sets since paying for that is one of the stated goals of the Kickstarter.
$75.00 is too high. I know I won't be the only one to think so, so I hope it doesn't hurt them too much.
I really do like the models and the game play looks very interesting. It would be a shame to have to skip the game because of absurd pricing (kinda how I do GW games) but I won't lose any sleep over it.
Yeah, but keep in mind that the PP starters are "plastic" meaning resin.
Actually, they're "plastic" meaning PVC.
You sure? I didn't think they were injection molded.
If I'm wrong on that, the point still stands really.
~Eric
Edit:
From what I've been able to glean from the Google machine's findings, they are using a form of "Restic" Resin with some plastic material in it. Which makes the point exactly the same. Not as costly as metal, but still more costly than injection molded plastics.
Yeah, but keep in mind that the PP starters are "plastic" meaning resin.
Actually, they're "plastic" meaning PVC.
You sure? I didn't think they were injection molded.
If I'm wrong on that, the point still stands really.
~Eric
As sure as I can be without getting one chemically tested.
They confirmed it early on when they started releasing the plastics. You'll also notice if you have a Colossal, Battle Engine, or new Behemoth that it's very different from their resin.
Makaleth wrote: I am back in on this now I can swap out the rule book for $35 worth of extra models. I had no need for the rulebook as I just want these to build and paint.
You mean you'll be swapping out the second rulebook if you go in at the Double Savior level, right?
Or did they say you can swap out your rulebook even at the regular Savior level too?
on the pledge it says that you can even do this at $100 level.
FROM THE KICKSTARTER SITE:
Savior of the Universe! - TWO Faction Starters of your choice, Hardback Rulebook, and TWO Special Edition miniatures! Pick your Factions after the Kickstarter ends from any of the unlocked Factions (even duplicates)! Ships free in the USA. Everywhere else please add $25. Swap out the Hardback Rulebook for a $35 value for more optional stuff
whalemusic360 wrote: I see the added value people derive from quantity, but I'm with piston in a lack of caring. I'd rather have fewer, better models witha more solid game backbone then a bunch of them that I can think of no use for.
While we need to reserve judgement on he Mantic one for the next 10 months or so, I'd say that both the Sedition Wars and Reaper Kickstarters both have excellent quality as well as Quantity.
The amount of minis you receive in boost 1 has been increased again (per the project homepage) from those originally listed in the update #21 so as to round out the minions in some factions to 5 or 3 man squads as there are rules for squad based minion units
Starter Faction contents after boost 1 and extra minions
Sucks to be Doctrine, I guess. The Cerci Speed Circuit looks a lot better with six jetbikes and Princess Malya than it did with two, but the Doctrine really looks like they get a raw deal on their infantry.
I thought I'd be a shoe in for Shattered sword, but Black diamond is actually winning me over along with the speed circuit. Those mercs and ninjas look awesome, and the jetbikes!
contents to be added each starter faction as follows
Shattered Sword Paladins
o Isabeau Durand - After joining the ranks of the Paladin Order, Isabeau nurtured her skills as a warrior as well as the healing arts. Supporting her brother and sister paladins on the field of battle, and hoping to one day find the band of Noh slavers that took her family.
Cerci Speed Circuit
o Rin Farrah - The Cerci Speed Circuit is no mere raceway. It is an entire planet given wholly to the adrenaline rush of speed. The outcome of premier events such as Cerci Prime have caused the loss of entire corporations and left governments in ruin. Such high stakes require strict measures to control “audience participation” .
Doctrine
o Togan and Cecelia – Old man Togan holds his office together with the veracity of the thinning straps on his university robes. It's good he has the indefatigable Cecilia to clean up after his messes.
Corsairs
o Iron Chef – Calico Kate has very particular tastes, and her eight foot tall four armed galley cook, simply called “Iron Chef” is sure to be wherever she is. Fiercely loyal, and the freshest ingredients, whatever you do, don’t end up on the menu!
Noh Empire
o Marikan-To – Master of the Lords hunt, Marikan-to leads the Noh’s far ranging scouts, hunting down enemies and piercing them with rods of dark energy from their archaic looking bows.
Black Diamond
o Suspect 7 – The Black Diamond can afford the best corporate assassins from around the Galaxy. Suspect 7 is no different. It is said she can be anywhere for any target, it just gets strange when she is on both sides of the galaxy at the same time fulfilling two different contracts.
Black Diamond really is getting the best of the upgardes so far that's 16 minis now for them (inc Fritz as a separate mini)
whalemusic360 wrote: I see the added value people derive from quantity, but I'm with piston in a lack of caring. I'd rather have fewer, better models witha more solid game backbone then a bunch of them that I can think of no use for.
While we need to reserve judgement on he Mantic one for the next 10 months or so, I'd say that both the Sedition Wars and Reaper Kickstarters both have excellent quality as well as Quantity.
Even so (I've never liked reaper minis, to each his own), it isn't a game, it's a bunch or random minis. Sed wars certainly appears to have both, and the ~$400 I sunk into it will hopefully be a worthwhile investment.
As it stands on this game, I have the double savior, with the add on models for the 4 factions I'm getting. Thinking of adding a fifth, depending on the boosts it gets. I don't like the pirate group at all, so that's an easy skip.
Even so (I've never liked reaper minis, to each his own), it isn't a game, it's a bunch or random minis. Sed wars certainly appears to have both, and the ~$400 I sunk into it will hopefully be a worthwhile investment.
As it stands on this game, I have the double savior, with the add on models for the 4 factions I'm getting. Thinking of adding a fifth, depending on the boosts it gets. I don't like the pirate group at all, so that's an easy skip.
This is hard to pass up, I'm looking at getting all the sets and special figs, but don't know if I'd ever play the game. My kids are still too young for me to be shoving half naked figures in front of them and saying lets play a game. Timing also hurts because of the dream forge games kick starter which is going at the same time and I know I'll get use out of those.
Kroothawk if you want 3 factions you can pledge Savior and add $50 for a 3rd Faction - likewise for 5 pledge Double Savior and add $50. The thing is if you move up a pledge level and trade in a rulebook you get $35 credit and an extra 2 cosplay minis so it's probably more worthwhile to take a higher pledge level anyway.
CMON mentioned it early on but haven't added to the FAQ or homepage so I've messaged them asking them to update it.
"Also, individual Faction Starters will be available at $50 per Faction Starter (inclusive of any Faction specific stretch goals hit, if any), for pledge levels of Savior or better. Great if you only want 3 or 5 Factions. You strange person."
Jumped in for Cerci, mainly to grab the Hells Belles,
but I may upgrade to grab a second faction depending on what gets unlocked
(or if I can get confirmation I can trade in the rule book at saviour level, it says you can now, but didn't originally, and I've not seen an oficial cmon/sodapop anouncement about it)
but I may upgrade to grab a second faction depending on what gets unlocked
(or if I can get confirmation I can trade in the rule book at saviour level, it says you can now, but didn't originally, and I've not seen an oficial cmon/sodapop anouncement about it)
Surely the quote on the Kickstarter Page is official. But there is no rush if this is a sticking point, any comms in the next couple days I would appreciate as well.
Boost level 2 @ $260k achieved extra minis for each faction unlocked
Marikan-To
Suspect 7
OK so here's a summary of what you get after boost 2 (sorry long post incoming)
Savior level $100
Choice of any 2 faction starter sets
Choice of any 2 Cosplay (limited edition figures)
1 Hardback Rulebook
1 Signed Lithograph
1 set of base inserts/objective markers
Double Savior $190
Choice of any 4 faction starter sets
Choice of any 4 Cosplay (limited edition figures)
2 Hardback Rulebooks
2 Signed Lithographs
2 sets of base inserts/objective markers
Gotta Get Em All $270
Choice of any 6 faction starter sets
Choice of any 6 Cosplay (limited edition figures)
3 Hardback Rulebooks
3 Signed Lithographs
3 sets of base inserts/objective markers
The hardbook rulebooks can be traded in for $35 credit to spend on other options (not postage) - that includes the 1 in Savior level. There are no other exchanges on offer at this time.
International shipping is plus $25 (Savior) $50 (Double Savior) or $75 (Gotta Get Em All), UK distributor being used for European shipping so no additional Customs or VAT charges.
Starter Faction Contents:
All starters contain the following specific to their faction
Character Cards
Esper Card Deck
Plastic game tokens
Playmat(Dashboard)
Noh Empire Starter
Relic Knight (Kasaro-to),
Cypher (Azi),
Marikan-To – Master of the Lords hunt
1 Minion (Render),
4 Minions (Berserkers)
Relic Knight (Sebastian Cross),
Cypher (Rook),
Isabeau Durand
2 x Paragons,
10 x Sword Sworn,
Doctrine
Relic Knight (Kisa),
Cypher (Scratch),
Codifier Togan and Cecelia
1 Minion (1 Librarian),
6 x Minions (Novitiates)
Cerci Speed Circuit
Relic Knight (Princess Malya),
Cypher (Mr Tomn),
Rin Farrah
1 Minion (PACE robot),
6 x Minions (Hell’s Belles)
Star Nebula Corsairs
Relic Knight (Calico Kate),
Cypher (Skully),
Iron Chef
1 Minion (Breaching Gun),
10 x Minions (Corsair Crew)
The extra minions should include optional heads and weapon arms for more variety and they will be posable to a degree.
Cosplay/ Limited Editon Figures - Darkspace means they are alternate universe versions they have variant rules and work in a different faction - there will probably be more than the initial 6 as Star Nebula Corsairs need 1
Darkspace Iron Chef (Black Diamond) - Unlocks @ $280k
Optional Extras
Black Diamond - Assault Armour (on 80mm base) - $35
Noh Empire - Beastmaster and 2 hounds - $35
Shattered Sword - Austrican the Ogre - $25
Cerci Speed Circuit - Betty and Lug - $35
Doctrine - Fimetta and Hasami - $25
Star Nebula Corsairs - Kenobo and Squall - $25
Add extra Cosplay minis (beyond your pledge level) for $10 each
Add any starter faction to your pledge level for $50
Next up Cosplay Iron Chef @ $280k
Boost EX @ $300k - silhouettes show that contents will be
Noh Empire - Zineda and Spite
Black Diamond - Leopold Magnus and Static
Shattered Swor Paladins - Francis Malory and Quill
Cerci Speed Circuit - Suicide Queen on jet bike and Rollo
Doctrine - Delphyne and Ekhis
Star Nebula Corsairs - New character with Parrot Cypher
I was confused (as always) by the kickstarter page which has these next boosts which list these at $260k not $300k. Guess they need to modify the image?
Hard to believe that CMON won't be there, though maybe not, as it is close to Gencon?
And yeah, Captain Harlock/Wildstar/Generic 70's Anime Lead Character Guy is quite nice - it just might make me select the Corsairs, and I wasn't even thinking about them before this!
So would I. But I understand why they are pacing themselves... but seriously hope they have goals up to $500k (I think that's the tops for this one... unless they really up the model count)
Sikil wrote: Black Diamond + Shattred Sword for me. Done deal there!
Thou, I might up my pledge to get all the LE minis...
Im going with Black Diamond, wife is going Doctrine, shes going nuts for the next boost level since it looks like the boost for Doctrine is the wolf/red riding hood looking pair.
Tempted by this kickstarter, might jump on at the end, liking the look of black diamond and the speed circuit, but the noh is a definite. Want to see what the next boost brings. Might get them all plus the special figures.
Alpharius wrote: Hard to believe that CMON won't be there, though maybe not, as it is close to Gencon?
And yeah, Captain Harlock/Wildstar/Generic 70's Anime Lead Character Guy is quite nice - it just might make me select the Corsairs, and I wasn't even thinking about them before this!
As I understand it, Soda Pop is in Bellevue, so the only thing limiting an appearance at PAX would be their tolerance for Seattle's horrible downtown parking prices. (Seriously, when I went to PAX in 2009 the parking cost more than the weekend pass.)
There are only 2 Hell's Belles minis but it's hoped they will get alternate weapons and the helmeted heads that where designed. I've attached a picture of the Suicide Queen mini from the EX boost.
I have some of those crystals Orlando they are very nice they seem to have forgotten to add the concept sketches for the bases.
Different weapons and different heads are perfect, I am thinking of getting 10 of these (7 so far from this and if I can swap the boost 1 for another 3 I will be so happy) and was a little worried they would look the same.
The queen leading the pack all with helmets would be perfect.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, actually I imagine the Suicide Queen to be the only one with a helmet (how ironic) but that is still seriously cool.
Should reach the $300k EX boost in the next few hours - can someone post the details here when they do the update Kickstarter is blocked where I work and I'd really like to see the next update - thanks.
bah, i've been holding off on this one, but i think i'm gonna break down and go with the noh empire and shattered sword for savior of the universe.....stupid inner child and its love of anime
I could picture using the Hell's Belles for Infinity models. However I will likely be getting Black Diamond and the Doctrine (wife wants the big kitty model).
A horrible amount of churn this morning, but a new update (thanks to the 2 Tell My Story backers)
Boost EX unlocked! New stretches out... and guest stars!
Update #25 · Aug. 29, 2012 · 6 comments
Zinenda and Spite - Traditionally priestesses of the Hydra God strive to ensure their neutrality as Nozuki’s voice and serve as arbitrators between the eight Noh Dragon Fleets. In accordance to her role as High Priestess, Zineda, continues this custom.
Leopold Magnus & Static - The Synod, the enigmatic council which controls the Galactic Merchants have taken a great interest in the Esper creatures known as cyphers and even greater interest in the constructs of war, the Relics. Leopold is determined to unravel their mysteries and will literally stop at nothing to achieve his ends. His cypher, Static, seems all too willing to help him out in his pursuit, especially when it involves tearing apart enemy relics and severing other cypher’s connections to Esper.
Francis Mallory & Quill - Francis is the oldest surviving Paladin of the Shattered Sword. Upon the manifesting of Sebastian’s cypher, Rook, and eventual discovery of his Relic, Francis nobly stepped aside, giving the title of First to Sebastian. Now unburdened by the role of leadership he is given to taking up obscure quests and battles that normally the order could not spare resources for.
Delphyne & Ekhis - Given the natural tendency for those with cyphers to be drawn into combat one may consider it cruel that Delphyne, a girl of barely eight cycles, would be burdened with such a "gift". Yet it is undeniable that her cypher, Ekhis has taken her safety into account with his physical manifestation. The massive cypher has proven himself more than capable of acting as Delphyne's protector countless times.
Suicide Queen & Rollo - For Suicide Queen, life was easier before her cypher, Rollo appeared. In those days all the leader of the gang, Hells Bells, needed to concern herself with was cracking heads and strong arming racers and pit crews who thought they could zoom through the miles of Cerci Speed Circuit racing track criss-crossing her turf without paying.
Captain Harker & CeaserHarker has plundered and pillaged across space with such success that he could buy a planet and retire in opulent splendor. However, such a life is not for him. For him the lure of the stars is too strong. He thrives on the thrill of the raid and relishes in outwitting the greatest opponents.
And now... for your optional enjoyment. These two officially licensed Penny Arcade characters will only be available during this Kickstarter and any remainder at conventions in 2013!
Picarooning is hard work. The life of adventure as an interstellar corsair breeds a hardy lot, and Wildspace Gabe is no different. Festooned with blasters, his trusty cutlass, and his lucky tatoo - Wildspace has railed against the darkspace that stole from him his homeworld, his family, and everything he has ever known. Tapping into that raging beast, Wildspace has made a name for himself among the spacelanes, pillaging to add to his own horde, and facing the oblivion of the darkspace on his own terms. With Wildspace goes his cypher, The Merch. The dark influence of this creature is ever pushing Wildspace to new heights of plunder, The Merch has demonstrated a bizarre compulsion for collectinghuman torsos, should the pile of booty not be high enough. His shipmates often wonder who works for who.
Codifier Brahe has long ago left the Esper scorched dormitories and hallowed halls of the Doctrine's most elite university to find a way to halt the darkspace. A prefect of unimaginable skill, and a warriors grip of the doctrine's codex, Tycho Brahe, a fully fledged codifier, has set out save the universe by discovering the "omega code". As the universe seems to favor personalities of such magnitude and import, Tycho's cypher was revealed to him in the form of a favorite breakfast making accessory. Now, as a powerful ally and mighty boon for the young wizard, the two set off for adventure, if Brahe could just grasp enough control of the creatures penchant for fruit buggery, magnified in annoyance by newly discovered flora encountered on their many travels.
.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And fresh in
Creator CoolMiniOrNot 3 minutes ago
We haven't updated the graphics yet, but the EX Plus boosts are to increase the value of the optional items for each faction, we'll do that shortly.
so the optional items that looked only just beter than retail will get some love and become must have items (I hope)
Excellent I was hoping both Moffet and the Prefects would show up that makes the $25 doctrine optional buy very good if we hit $350k and compensates somewhat for the lower number of minis Doctrine got in the starter boosts. I'd already put money in for 1 of each option even though I don't particularly like Austrican but getting Hauser with him more than makes up for that.
Wildspace Gabe and Codifier Brahe are both $15 optional buys they aren't free and they aren't cosplay characters so they can't be chosen from your Cosplay allotment. They get their Cyphers added at $315k at the rate it's now climbing they should be in by the end of the day.
Automatically Appended Next Post: CMON have made a post on the international shipping charges which is worth posting here - they will not be lowered and cannot be offset by the rulebook exchange. I read on the Zombicide comments alright that international shipping is actually costing them more than they take in and they seem to have realised that now and are chargiing more for RK as a result.
CoolMiniOrNot 8 minutes ago
Regarding shipping - ultimately this is a business decision we're forced to make, but lest we appear to be gouging, here's some numbers.
Zombicide cost us, on average $40 to ship an 8lb box to Canada, $50 to Europe and $60 to Australia via USPS Priority Mail, a relatively fast method. Only couriers and Express Mail are faster. We charged $25, so absorbed the rest. Savior pledges will come to about 8lbs with books etc. And no, the price doesn't decrease because we ship 16 lb on Double Savior.
For Europe, this is an added service, we will be paying a 3rd party company to import and unload what is likely to be a partial container, transfer it to a warehouse, store it, pick and pack and send it out. Obviously, they want to get paid, and the general price of packaging materials in the UK is higher than in the US (as is nearly everything, including fuel). After that, UPS throughout Europe will cost us at least 12-15 pounds, (about $20 - $25). This is also not inclusive of potential tax liability, for which we are getting advice that we should probably be paying since we aren't a UK entity. Factor in additional exchange rate risk, because this project is set to ship in May 2013 and $25 is a steal, with $35 to $40 being closer to a fair price.
So international backers, sorry the price can't come down, and is as reasonable as we can make it. If anything, it's the US backer that's subsidizing you, not the other way round (it cost us $11 to ship it by Fedex Smartpost in the USA). On for the love of unholy Darkspace, US backers please don't write in asking not to subsidize the international lot!
Creator CoolMiniOrNot less than a minute ago
Oops forgot to add, of the $25 charged, $2.50 disappears in credit card and Kickstarter fees. So we are paying $40-$60 in postage out of a $22.50 kitty for international rewards shipping. This, of course, is not your problem, but should go some way to explain why we set it at that level.
Well I knew they were eating some costs for the international shipping on Zombicide & Sedition Wars, but it sounds like they were loosing even more than I thought.
At least we have a clear explanation of the matter now
DaveC wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: CMON have made a post on the international shipping charges which is worth posting here - they will not be lowered and cannot be offset by the rulebook exchange. I read on the Zombicide comments alright that international shipping is actually costing them more than they take in and they seem to have realised that now and are chargiing more for RK as a result.
Also, I love the fact that Tycho has the Gravity Saber and facial Scar... I really hope that is a Cosmo Dragoon on his other hip. My inner fangirl is very happy.
Here's pictures of the BD tank, 1 of the Suspect 7s and a SSP Paragon from the new video they just uploaded - the tank is a mini tank it's not a full size tank more of a drone like the Pacebot.
Yes Alpharius they are boosts for the optional extras if you buy the extras you get the boost if it reaches $350k if you don't buy them you don't get anything. The Penny Arcade Cyphers are only available to people who buy the Penny Arcade Characters. The Cosplay Isabeau is available to everyone as one of their cosplay choices or as a $10 extra buy if you've used your cosplay choices up already.
Alpharius wrote: It may just be me, but I don't quite understand what the newly acquired stretch goals do, or what the future ones are going to do.
Do they only increase the amount of miniatures you get if you select the optional add ons?
The first stretch goal (less than 2K to go) will add free cypers to the two Penny Arcade tribute Questing Knights (these knights are $15 each, and have to be bought to benefit from the stretch goal)
The second stretch goal will unlock an additonal cosplay figure (Isabeau Durant), probably for the SNC as they don't have one yet. You'll be able to use one of your free picks to get her, or pay $10
(note that this mean there are 7 cosplay figures, and even at the 6 faction level you only get 6 free, so if you HAVE to have everything extra cash is needed)
The third stretch goal adds FREE extra figure(s) on to the pre existing paid options available to each faction (eg the $35 Cerci option is Betty & Lug, when we hit the goal if you pay for this you'll also get 2 pit crew as well)
Alpharius wrote: It may just be me, but I don't quite understand what the newly acquired stretch goals do, or what the future ones are going to do.
Do they only increase the amount of miniatures you get if you select the optional add ons?
It's no real different then Zombicide or SW did. New options at a much lower cost then you would pay. Personally none of them excite me but to each their own as I plan on the NoH Empire and the Cerci Speed.
I think the Zombicide page was laid out a lot better though, but this is probably because it was all straight up, without having to worry about 6 different factions.
Yeah it's not the easiest to follow but as you say your trying to track 6 different factions as opposed to a single board game.
$315k Penny Arcade stretch is done in less than 7 hours everyone who buys "Wildspace" Gabe and Codifier Tycho Brahe will get their cyphers as well.
"Wildspace" Gabe gets The Fleshreaper (The Merch)
Tycho Brahe gets Fruit F..(censored! mmm lover shall we say) 2000
Next up Cosplay Isabeau Durand as Faye Valentine @ $330k she is the missing Star Nebula Corsair Darkspace character. That will make 7 Cosplay characters in total.
Darkspace Isabeau
Star Nebula Corsairs
"My motto is shoot them before they shoot you, out here it's survival of the fittest."
Alpharius wrote: It may just be me, but I don't quite understand what the newly acquired stretch goals do, or what the future ones are going to do.
Not just you... I think you need a decoder ring.
It's definitely getting more tempting, but I'm sold not on it yet...
Seriously I thought I was the only one. I'm wanting the Doctrine, the Cersi Speed Circuit, and the Star Nebula Corsairs....but for the life of me I don't know what I'm getting for free and what I need to pay for....
So if Gabe is Captain Harlock, Tycho is Roy Mustang from Fullmetal Alchemist?
Kind of surprised Cosplay Isabeau wasn't Saber from Fate/Stay Night, though that would have been even more on the nose than Cosplay Rin.
It's kind of funny. I like all the Doctrine models except the ones in the starter. If I could put together a Doctrine set of the Boost levels and the optionals I would.
I am really tempted to go for Saviour. (Noh for sure, but the other is a hard choice, most of the others I like either the boost models or the starter models but not both, Corsairs, Shatter Sword and Doctrine all have great models and not so great models)
But I'm not sure I'd have anyone to play with me. My roommate loves anime, but he's not so much into miniature wargaming, same with one of my other buddies. But maybe it's time to try and convince them.
On the other hand, I'm not sure what Relic Knights gives me that Infinity wouldn't if I wanted to convince some anime lovers to play a mini game.
DaveC wrote: Here's pictures of the BD tank, 1 of the Suspect 7s and a SSP Paragon from the new video they just uploaded - the tank is a mini tank it's not a full size tank more of a drone like the Pacebot.
Whoa, whoa! Mini-tank? I'll have to get a few for X-com.
from the KS comments, user Tim pointed out a youtube video of a real game. shows gameplay, and figures in context with hands etc so you get a good idea of scale
spiralingcadaver wrote:Not just you... I think you need a decoder ring.
Nah, it's actually pretty straightforward. It's just that one section runs straight into another rather than having nice big headings:
- Looking at the kickstarter page, the first bit is an introduction to the game, an overview of the stretch goals reached and to come, and an overview of the special characters reached and to come. (As noted in the image, the special characters cost $10 but most pledge levels let you pick some for "free". See later. You'll need to scroll back through the updates to see art of the special characters.)
- The next section is what is in the six factions' starters. (Stop scrolling when you get to the big red Noh Empire pic.) Currently each faction has four pictures on a solid colour background, some concept art and photos, and lastly a description of what's in each starter. You'll see that the description is broken into what was available in the starter at kickstarter inception (mini's and cards, etc) then three unlocks of stuff that's been added for free to the starter. The first of those solid-colour-background pictures shows the minis that were available in the starter at inception while each of the remaining three solid-colour-background pictures corresponds to each of the three unlocks so far. TL;DR the minis you get in each starter are *exactly* what's shown in those four solid-colour-background pictures.
- Third section is the pledge levels and what you get for them. Should be pretty clear.
- Last section is the optional extras. You pay the price, you get the figure. But notice how each also has an unlock shown after it? If those get unlocked then buying the figure also nets you the unlocked figure(s).
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:from the KS comments, user Tim pointed out a youtube video of a real game. shows gameplay, and figures in context with hands etc so you get a good idea of scale
There's also a video from Gencon showing the relative sizes of a bunch of figures. Some are surprisingly large - or small.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DaveC wrote: CMON have made a post on the international shipping charges which is worth posting here
Aren't these being made in China? Wouldn't it make more sense to ship most of them directly from there instead of schlepping them over to the US first?
The optional Faction packs were looking a little lonely, so if we hit $350k each one will get boosted with either extra minions or even unique characters (Kickstarter only freebies, they'll retail seperately)!
Let's see what each has in store...
Black Diamond - Breaker Team. Because you can always use more heavy weapons.
Noh - 2 more Agha! Complete your pack of Devil Hounds!
Shattered Sword - Navarre Hauser - A named Paragon elite character!
Doctrine - Novitiate Prefects! Someone's gotta enforce school rules...
Cerci Speed Circuit - 2 x Pit Crew. Those bikes won't fix themselves...
Star Nebula Corsairs - Moffett. She may look fancy, but don't get on the wrong end of her rapier!
I'm watching the video demo now and I have to say I love the initiative system - very Finaly Fantasy X style - and the simple stats, but action resolution with the esper cards is clunky as hell and constant hand management combined with copious amounts of special abilities will doubtlessly mean constant analysis paralysis for certain kinds of players.
Here is a rundown for folks that are confused about what they need to buy or what they will get.
What you get from each factions starter set...
All starters include Quick Start Rules, Esper Deck, Tracker Cards, Data Cards, Tokens, Playmat. Cards are plastic core and Tokens are Plastic.
Noh Empire: Kasaro-to and Azi, Zinenda and Spite, Marikan-To,1 Render, 4 Berserkers
- If you do the $100+ level grab Darkspace Rin Farrah for free, otherwise she is $10 - If you add on $35 you can get the Beast Master and 4 Agha -- Total cost for the entire Noh line and SE: $85-95
Black Diamond: One Shot & Fritz, Leopold Magnus & Static, Suspect 7, 1 M8-Blitz Auto-Tank, 10 Black Diamond Corp
- If you do the $100+ level grab Darkspace Iron Chef for free, otherwise he is $10 - If you add on $35 you can get the Diamondback Assault Armor (HUGE) and the Breaker Team -- Total cost for the entire Black Diamond line and SE: $85-95
Shattered Sword Paladins: Sebastian Cross & Rook, Francis Mallory & Quill, Isabeau Durand, 2 Paragons, 10 Sword Sworn,
- If you do the $100+ level grab Darkspace Fiametta for free, otherwise she is $10 - If you add on $25 you can get Austrician the Ogre and Navarre Hauser -- Total cost for the entire Black Diamond line and LE: $75-85
Doctrine: Kisa & Scratch, Delphyne & Ekhis, Togan and Cecelia (two models as one), 1 Librarian, 6 Novitiates,
- If you do the $100+ level grab Darkspace Zinenda for free, otherwise she is $10 - If you add on $25 you can get Fiametta, Hasami, and the 3 Prefects - If you add on $15 you can get Codifier Brahe & FF9000 -- Total cost for the entire Doctrine Line line and SEs: $90-100
Cerci Speed Circuit: Princess Malya & Mr Tomn, Suicide Queen & Rollo, Rin Farrah, 1 PACE robot, 6 Hell’s Belles,
- If you do the $100+ level grab Darkspace Candy & Cola for free, otherwise she is $10 - If you add on $35 you can get Bett, Lug, and 2 Pit Crew - If you add on $10 you can get Marie-Claude -- Total cost for the entire Cerci Line line and SEs: $95-105
Star Nebula Corsairs: Calico Kate & Skully, Captain Harker & Ceaser, Iron Chef, 1 Breaching Gun, 10 Corsair Crew,
- If you do the $100+ level grab Darkspace Isabeau for free, otherwise she is $10 - If you add on $25 you can get Kenobo, Squall, and Moffett - If you add on $15 you can get "Wildspace" Gabe & The Merch -- Total cost for the entire Cerci Line line and SEs: $90-100
Keep in mind this is with the mindset that you only want the stuff for the faction you get. You can buy all the special editions and Addons without restriction to what starter you choose.
Darkspace Marie-Claude is also available as an add for the Cersi Speed Circuit.
None of the $25-$35 add on's have the second moel(s) yet. Hopefully soon.
I think the value is definitely getting to the point where people will buy-in just for the models--$100 for book and game pieces, as well as 2 starters AND 2 limited edition models.. Each starter is between 10 and 18 models.
You just want models? Trade in the book for another $35 in value in models. That's a HUGE Black DIamond robot, or more limited edition models, or maybe 5 models for Doctrine.
drazz wrote: Just to make sure its up to date, for the moment:
Darkspace Marie-Claude is also available as an add for the Cersi Speed Circuit.
None of the $25-$35 add on's have the second moel(s) yet. Hopefully soon.
I think the value is definitely getting to the point where people will buy-in just for the models--$100 for book and game pieces, as well as 2 starters AND 2 limited edition models.. Each starter is between 10 and 18 models.
You just want models? Trade in the book for another $35 in value in models. That's a HUGE Black DIamond robot, or more limited edition models, or maybe 5 models for Doctrine.
Marie is up there is the calculations and it's safe to assume that the extra models for the addon will make it.
If you just want models on the cheap then the $100 level with Black Diamond and Paladins with rulebook trade in for the Diamond addon is the way to go.
thats catchy.
