Sinful Hero wrote: Super Dungeon Explore is also a Soda Pop game, so I wouldn't be all doom and gloom just yet. I've noticed C'MON sells kingdom death minis(I suppose acting as a distributor?)at conventions. Not saying C'MON has anything to do with Poots' work, but he at least has enough confidence in them to sell his stuff. I have a feeling C'MON got caught up trying to get too much through the door at once.
I think its important to note that the Robotech KS, of which CMoN has no involvement , is also struggling right now with Ninja(Soda) Division (Pop) and that all of CMoNs 100% internal KSes have been delivered early or on time....
It's just as important to note that Ninja Division's partner in that venture is Palladium Books, a company notorious for double-speak, empty promises, and massive delays.
I still don't see anything convincing that lays the blame on Soda Pop and not CMoN (or maybe some combination thereof).
~Eric
Edit:
Also, isn't Wrath of Kings the only 100% CMoN Kickstarter so far?
We may never know for certain, but while there are all kinds of reasons Robotech in particular may be delayed (three teams needing to bounce changes and authorization around, Palladium's well deserved reputation, etc), ND's involvement was touted at the launch of the campaign as a driving force in what would help keep the standards high and the project on time. They had all this experience, you see! Of course, given the timing of the launch, I wish I'd looked a little closer into ND's various members, including SP, as Relic Knights was hitting their big "Whelp, bad news everybody..." period not too long before Robotech launched.
Is it fair to lay all the blame at SP's feet? No, likely not. At ND's? Probably not, I'm sure Palladium and Harmony Gold carry some of that burden as well. But at the same time, two big projects, both associated with at least some aspects of SP, both with 2-7+ month delays? It might be a coincidence, but that's not my first thought, and as things draw out for both (I didn't back RK, just observing here), my inclination to give them the benefit of the doubt weakens.
@Forar: The only folks being discussed here that I am unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt are Palladium, despite being burned by CMoN when it was New Wave Games...
I just see folks (cincy in particular) saying that it is 100% Soda Pop's fault without any real strong evidence to support that.
Sinful Hero wrote: Super Dungeon Explore is also a Soda Pop game, so I wouldn't be all doom and gloom just yet. I've noticed C'MON sells kingdom death minis(I suppose acting as a distributor?)at conventions. Not saying C'MON has anything to do with Poots' work, but he at least has enough confidence in them to sell his stuff. I have a feeling C'MON got caught up trying to get too much through the door at once.
I think its important to note that the Robotech KS, of which CMoN has no involvement , is also struggling right now with Ninja(Soda) Division (Pop) and that all of CMoNs 100% internal KSes have been delivered early or on time....
It's just as important to note that Ninja Division's partner in that venture is Palladium Books, a company notorious for double-speak, empty promises, and massive delays.
I still don't see anything convincing that lays the blame on Soda Pop and not CMoN (or maybe some combination thereof).
~Eric
Edit:
Also, isn't Wrath of Kings the only 100% CMoN Kickstarter so far?
They did Guilds of Cadwallen as well.
Production delays don't really bother me. I've done enough work with Chinese manufacturing to know that they work alittle bit different then manufaturing in the western world. Chinese manufacturing is great when they can carry over a process from another project or you give them pretty detailed directions. They don't have a high individual initiative culture... I'll use the bases as an example. It's highly likely that they copied the design for the production mold from another project with the hope/understanding that what worked for one base will work for another. When they wen't into production they found they had problems. In more western manufacturing the problem would probably have been identified and brought to light by someone in the manufacturing chain. I'm not sure if what I'm trying to say makes sense to anyone but me though.
Taarnak wrote: @Forar: The only folks being discussed here that I am unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt are Palladium, despite being burned by CMoN when it was New Wave Games...
I just see folks (cincy in particular) saying that it is 100% Soda Pop's fault without any real strong evidence to support that.
~Eric
The major delay (the 6th month one) was 100% due to Soda Pop delivering only 11 of 33 new minature renders to be produced from the KS stretches to CMoN by their due date. Failing to meet this due date lost them their spot in the manufacturers' production line, with the next open spot being 6th months later.
Additionally, Guiolltine Games is nearly completely a design studio. CMoN handled every asset of product creation for Zombicide. It's effectively an internal effort. Zombicide 1 shipped early. Zombicide 2 shipped SLIGHTLY late (like, 30 days) in part due to the gigantic amount of unique orders (nearly 10,000). The shipping delay would have been less of an internet shitstorm had they not sold Zombicide S2 at GenCon, even though plenty of their backers had no problem with that, as NOT taking a new product to GenCon is moronic.
Question:
You have said a few times that you have no idea when they will ship just that they said it should be before Chinese New Year. Where is production on these models (to give us a better estimate) 85%, 95%, 98% (just waiting on token / base retool)? And how much longer do you estimate before production is completed? If these are not shipped before the factories close for Chinese New Year is there a back up plan?
Answer:
We have received word from China that they will be doing the test run on the token molds on December 8th. Once this test run has been finished they will inform us of the results and then provide us with a new ready date. Production with then proceed faction by faction. We have also been told that they will do everything they can to get it done before the Chinese New Year. If it does run into the New Year there is nothing that we can do about that. We will have to wait it out for the three weeks and then immediately pick back up. Hopefully we can avoid that altogether. We will be giving you production updates as we receive them. This information will be in a Kickstarter update soon as well.
I'm getting the feeling this will run into March now.
Wow, just passed that update on to my friends who pledged for this... they're not going to be happy. Especially with the delay in telling backers the state of things and the impending delays... again.
RiTides wrote: Wow, just passed that update on to my friends who pledged for this... they're not going to be happy. Especially with the delay in telling backers the state of things and the impending delays... again.
Interestingly I got an email response from a Ross when inquiring about a refund today. In part he said:
We are very close to shipping though, and the wait will not be much longer.
An interesting thing stuck out as I was reading that;
Deke provides the following answer;
Question:
In regards to the issue with the sizing issues with the final packages...is this due to CMoN trying to utilize what has become their standard cookie cutter boxed game with plastic inserts? Or what exactly is the issue with the packaging?
Answer:
I’m actually not certain what you’re referring to. I have personally overseen the creation of the packaging and we have no sizing issues. Most of the box sizes you will actually recognize from our Super Dungeon Explore products.
This would seem to directly contradict a statement CMON made in the last update;
While they are finalizing those elements, we are taking that time to address a few sizing issues with final packaging we caught at the last minute. After these final tweaks are done, we should be able to begin assembling your individual orders and getting them out to you and will update again when we begin.
An interestingly quick answer from Deke;
Ah, thank you Falkenburg. The SDE Kasaro-To had one arm that didn't fit in the box correctly. We wrapped that up the same day it was brought to our attention. I will edit the Q&A answer accordingly.
Fascinating. Note that the update from CMON refers to "a few sizing issues with final packaging" that would be dealt with during the delay. An interesting way of referring to a single, immediately resolved...
Project Update #97: Production Update
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
Hello Everyone,
In cooperation with Cool Mini or Not, Soda Pop Miniatures will be taking point on Relic Knight communications directly through Kickstarter. We will be posting updates, answering your PMs, and engaging with you through the comments section. We also encourage you to take part in the ongoing discussions on Soda Pop Miniatures forums available here: http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/index.php
First off, we would like to address some concerns that have been voiced regarding the 360 turnaround models and the visible mold lines on many of the models. These are from small sample production runs from the production molds and print materials for the purpose of verifying box contents and QC approvals – these are then modified to address any issues like excessive flash or printing errors on boxes or cards. As we go forward we will be presenting studio shots of the models that will be making it into your boxes.
We are anticipating the results of the token test run soon and hopefully will get some photos of the new acceptable token test shots out to you all.
We have also been told that they will do everything they can to get it done before the start of the Chinese New Year (January 31st). If it does run into the New Year , we will have to wait it out for the three weeks and then immediately pick back up. Hopefully we can avoid that altogether as it should be a relatively small issue to correct but we thought you all would appreciate the heads up. We will be giving you production updates as we receive them.
The plan, as mentioned in a previous update, is to have all finished product for Asia Pacific and Europe packed and ready for shipping from China and Germany as soon as possible – a process known as break bulk shipping where finished address packages are shipped in bulk to a logistics hub and then broken up for mailing. This will help considerably in saving time getting Relic Knight to all of you outside the USA. USA and the rest of the world packages will still be packed in the USA, what this means is that Asia Pacific and European backers should receive their games around the same time as USA backers.
We know that the road has been long but the end is in sight, and both SPM and CMON are working diligently to get Relic Knights in your hands and onto your game tables! We thank you for your continued support and enthusiasm,
–Soda Pop Miniatures
On another note, they are supposed to have a tournament at Templecon. I'm really hoping to have models in time.
Wehrkind wrote: *sigh* I think I am going to start a betting pool on whether this gets unboxed before my second child.
Any takers? RiTides?
I might take that bet they'd have what, at least a year to get it done, right?
And yeah, that TempleCon tourney is looking very unlikely now.
I was actually talking about this with someone earlier. Apparently 50 resources is only between 2 and 12 models, the stat cards are avalible on the media section of their website. I might actually own enough of the resin and metal stuff that I don't actually need any of the new plastics.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Doctrine Academy Guard are huge! Very impressed with them. I didn't get any, but they do look nice.
And good to see that everything is finally done. Time to withdraw our pledges!
Did Azazelx even pledge for RK?!?
I actually did, early on. I had to drop it because I couldn't afford to stay in on both this and some other competing campaign that was on at the same time, though I did like the look of both Noh and Black Diamond. Well, I dropped to $1, so I still get the updates, and at the time I was still one for moral support to CMON, etc.
Noh and Black Diamond still look really good, Shattered Sword looks WAY better than initially previewed (so much so that I added their full faction offerings on - thanks Buzzsaw!), and I'm OK with the Pirates and the Racing Team.
Alpharius wrote: What are the odds you show up with the only playable force and win by default!
I like those odds!
I'd suggest at least bringing what you've got; I'm still somewhat upset I didn't bring my Wood Elves to Adepticon this year, there were only 6 people for the KOW tourney.
cincydooley wrote: Zombicide 2 shipped SLIGHTLY late (like, 30 days) in part due to the gigantic amount of unique orders (nearly 10,000). The shipping delay would have been less of an internet shitstorm had they not sold Zombicide S2 at GenCon, even though plenty of their backers had no problem with that, as NOT taking a new product to GenCon is moronic.
Speaking for myself, I don't have an issue with them being at Gencon. I took issue with the incredibly slow rate of shipping, post-Gencon and the poor communication/non supply issues since then and when they're not pimping another KS or PM. My missing items are supposed to be resolved today from their end. I'll update with what happens.
I think its important to note that the Robotech KS, of which CMoN has no involvement , is also struggling right now with Ninja(Soda) Division (Pop) and that all of CMoNs 100% internal KSes have been delivered early or on time....
A friend of mine has both RK and Robotech pledges and I'm curious to see which if any arrive over the next two to three months. If the below is supposedly true, they apparently haven't carried it over to the Robotech project as Ninja Division has been utterly silent about Robotech except for cut/pasting weeks old Palladium "news"... which is in and of itself usually a cut and paste job from week to week.
Question:
With all the troubles, why has SPM pulled away from the comments section of KS, and to a small extent, the entire Relic Knight KS? Is it the animosity some of us (yes, I am a backer, and a vocal one) have shown?
Answer:
CMON had their people looking after the Kickstarter. Nonetheless we should have used our own channels such as facebook and our website to keep in better contact with you. Something we are working hard to rectify. We have also requested access and will be engaging personally through the Kickstarter from now on. This however will remain my (Deke’s) definitive Q&A thread. Ross will be our main man on the Kickstarter front from here out
I'm kind of shifting back and forth between being sorry I didn't pledge for the Noh (they suddenly look really good) and being sorry I pledged anything at all...
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm kind of shifting back and forth between being sorry I didn't pledge for the Noh (they suddenly look really good) and being sorry I pledged anything at all...
You'll be able to pick the Noh up later on.
I'm still looking forward to getting my stuff. Soda Pop makes one of my favorite games (Super Dungeon Explore) and I've played RK before.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Project Update #98: Token Test Pictures
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
Hello everyone,
As promised we have pictures of the test run of the new token mold. This test was done in clear acrylic so we can see how the mold did. The final tokens will be in colored acrylic based on faction along with the painted token face.
The two token sizes—30mm for AoEs and other effects, 50mm for objectives.
All of the tokens in their baggie to make sure they fit.
These are the toppers that go on each token baggie. Below the toppers are the color swatches showing the color each faction's tokens will be.
Token Designs. The top two are the primary and secondary objective designs. Below are the icons for the token effects.
This is the token key card. Using a card sleeve and dry erase marker you will use the key card to write the name of the effect each numbered token represents.
Primary Objective tracker card.
Secondary Objective tracker card. Each player has two secondary objective, hence the two health tracks on the card.
As you can see the tokens and objectives are a key part of managing your games of Relic Knights!
We will post as we soon as we have the next production update.
The sizes may have been too small or large. The game calls for 30mm and 50mm specifically and the factory may have just copied over 25mm bases or something since they deal in different sized circles all the time. We may never know the truth but at least the issue seems to be fixed now.
With the test run turning out well I hope this puts production and fulfillment on track to be completed before Chinese new year.
Whatever the issue with the base inserts was, it seems to have been resolved quietly and quickly.
Not a direct answer from Deke but I take from this that nothing at all has been manufactured yet just test runs
Question:
Has everything been produced except the inserts and tokens now? I guess I'm looking a status update for all of the items other than inserts and tokens.
Answer:
Unfortunately, with how China does manufacturing everything is essentially done in one big production push after everything has been approved. We will be providing you with the new production schedule as soon as we have it.
My last guess of March 2014 might even be optimistic on that basis :(
1) I like the overall 'look and feel' on the line
2) This KS was before CMON really learned how to bleed and soak us for a lot of money - it wasn't really *that* bad to get all that I wanted.
3) At this point, what's another 3 to 6 months delay? I'd pretty much forgotten about this one anyway!
DaveC wrote: Not a direct answer from Deke but I take from this that nothing at all has been manufactured yet just test runs
Question:
Has everything been produced except the inserts and tokens now? I guess I'm looking a status update for all of the items other than inserts and tokens.
Answer:
Unfortunately, with how China does manufacturing everything is essentially done in one big production push after everything has been approved. We will be providing you with the new production schedule as soon as we have it.
My last guess of March 2014 might even be optimistic on that basis :(
Whooooooaaaaaaa! Just passed that on to the local gaming group that pledged big for Relic Knights, they're not going to be happy... the prior communications did indeed make people start to think it was just the tokens left to manufacture, and nothing else.
Well, hopefully we'll get them before Christmas of next year! But seriously, it gets harder and harder to get excited for this game with how long it's been overdue. If things haven't come around in March I may consider a refund as well.
Whooooooaaaaaaa! Just passed that on to the local gaming group that pledged big for Relic Knights, they're not going to be happy... the prior communications did indeed make people start to think it was just the tokens left to manufacture, and nothing else.
No, Soda Pop said somewhere that manufacture would go faction by faction once everything was approved, making it pretty obvious that nothing has actually been manufactured yet.
Does anyone else get the feeling that in inordinate amount of blame gets placed on the Chinese manufacturers when things run late?
It is probably almost impossible to accurately determine how much stuff gets made in China. Billions of dollars worth of product. I would presume that most of these Chinese manufacturers actually know what they're doing and that delays caused by the client (yes, it happens) don't get mentioned.
It seems like every year, every Kickstarter acts like 'Chinese New Year' is f'ing up their plans, that China does things weird, that they changed something without asking, etc. They toss out these excuses even if they've used China to make things before as if they're finally figuring out how Chinese manufacturing works.
I can totally understand a delay because the Kickstarter got too big, it was too successful, and there were simply too many models. I know that translation problems can occur, and errors are made by Chinese workers. I've also seen errors from American designers, that the public doesn't find out about because it gets fixed. Sometimes inferior products get greenlighted anyway. Don't even get me started on the Deadzone acrylic tokens....
Surely not every American company that deals with China has these problems??? Maybe these upstart companies need to be more realistic about their R&D timeframes. I suspect some of the big companies that aren't using KS are spending years going from design to product. The 'Now, Soon, Back NOW' mentality is biting way too many Kickstarters and their backers in the azz.
I'm pleased that Soda Pop is trying to get the product as high a quality as possible. I'd rather Relic Knights be 'close to perfect' than 'fast', but I don't feel like we are getting the full story.
Dr Mathias wrote: I'm pleased that Soda Pop is trying to get the product as high a quality as possible. I'd rather Relic Knights be 'close to perfect' than 'fast', but I don't feel like we are getting the full story.
Along with the remarkably permissive attitude many backers have towards delays, this is another topic I've been mulling over for ages.
It's a frequent refrain on almost any KS campaign I've looked over; "I'd rather have it good than fast!", and that's a totally reasonable stance to take, however there's gradiation present that so many seem to ignore. I liken it to buying a computer; you can get a hunk of crap for a couple hundred bucks, or a workable system for a couple hundred more, or a solid gaming rig for a grand plus, or a top of the line monster for 10 grand plus, with all the bells, whistles and a quartet of video cards that could run NASA in a pinch, but there are massive diminishing returns present.
I can see taking the time to tweak the molds and get them right. To run a test batch and give feedback to make sure the end result is something people should be happy with. But mold lines happen, eventually like any product one has to accept that in order to further refine it another 1% better would take days or weeks or even months, and when dealing with miniatures we're often looking at a level of detail that only a professional modeler/painter will be able to do justice to anyways. Many (most?) backers will probably just slap it together and throw primer and a basic scheme on it, if that.
But backers rarely know where exactly we are on that continuum, so calls for "take another 3 months to 'do it right'", without knowing how far from the (highly subjective) 'right', seems more like blind faith than informed support.
Edit: to be completely clear, I'm not referring to you directly, Doc. Your comment just triggered a post I've been pondering laying out for a while.
For reference, I can confirm that Chinese manufacturing can be a huge mess. Doesn't have to be, but for smaller players who are not well connected personally with folks inside the system, it can be really awkward. There are a lot of institutional issues that have nothing to do with incompetence that you just don't see when you deal with firms in countries like the US. It is not uncommon to see increasing delays over time as officials or managers push to get more and more in their pockets.
That said, this is getting a bit ridiculous. I am somewhat suspicious that CMON doesn't have sufficient relationships to get things done, given their previous experiences. It is possible that they are a relatively smaller player and other people are sort of bullying their way in front of the production line, but I am skeptical.
Whooooooaaaaaaa! Just passed that on to the local gaming group that pledged big for Relic Knights, they're not going to be happy... the prior communications did indeed make people start to think it was just the tokens left to manufacture, and nothing else.
No, Soda Pop said somewhere that manufacture would go faction by faction once everything was approved, making it pretty obvious that nothing has actually been manufactured yet.
Yes, but plenty of people thought that was just tokens. So nothing manufactured in 2013
You may (and it's still may) have to eat that flying pig!
UPDATE:
Base Insert Photos
With the tokens all squared away, we have a good update for you as we approach the holidays:
All Battle Box contents have been approved and are about to start production!
As production begins we will continue to provide you with updates on it's progress and shipping schedules as they are finalized and come available.
We also have some more pictures for you.
First up are the tokens. These images show the tokens in their correct colors with their paint overlay. We are going to do a slightly heavier coat of paint for the final production run to help make all the symbols really pop.
Next are the remastered base inserts. They look really sharp and we will keep you updated as they continue through the process towards manufacturing. Not pictured is the 80mm one but we assure you it is not forgotten!
Finally, we have pictures of the final production casts of the Super Dungeon Explore models. They are looking great and will also start production with the battle boxes very soon. We have also made pdfs of the Super Dungeon Explore cards available for you to preview on the Soda Pop Miniatures Media Page.
The holidays are here and like many of you Soda Pop Miniatures will be spending some time with our families and friends. We will, of course, continue working on production over the holidays, but Ross and I will not be answering comments, forums, or PMs from December 24-26th and December 31 through January 1st.
I like the look of the SDE minis for the most part. I hate the "falling down" pose of Cross. (So many SDE minis seem to have a lot of underside that's difficult and largely pointless to paint).
And (like pretty much everyone) am disappointed in the tiny head of the mini-boss. The other four will happily join my collection though.
Side note: I really wish they would make the plastic bar extend enough to cover the whole gap in the bases though. Filling that In is an obnoxious time waster when trying to prep SDE minis. Dunno why they were able to get that right for the core set and then move to having it all screwed up for the rest.
Project Update #100: Merry Christmas - Here's something extra for your stocking
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
Merry Christmas
The Soda Pop team wants to wish you all a very Merry Christmas, and wanted to share a special gift with all our backers. So, wherever you are, we want to thank you for your continued support, as we continue to finalize production on Relic Knights.
"Production is underway just got the e-mail confirming it. More updates as we get them."
which since European New Year does not matter in China means they should have a fair chance of getting everything finished before Chinese New Year shuts the whole country down for a month
I'd be reasonably hopeful the USA stuff can be sorted in time, but for us in Europe there's the time consuming picking and boxing up of our pledges by CMON staff (or under CMON staff supervision) and I hope than can be sorted by 31st Jan otherwise we could end up with a hideous release gap of sereral months rather than several weeks
The New Year is upon us and with we have the pdf copy of the Relic Knights manga.
Download your copy now.
We also have one final piece of news to help ring in the New Year—Production has started on the Battle Boxes and Super Dungeon Explore figures! We will keep you up-to-date on production progress and shipping plans as we receive them.
Now what are you waiting for? Go celebrate the start of a new year!
By my (very) rough calculations it will take three weeks at most to produce everything for all of the backers. That leaves one week to pack things up and ship things out of China before everything shuts down. They might cut it close but I think it is possible.
So what exactly was so confusing about it? Princess is being cooped up for being too unlady-like. She busts out and goes to the race she qualified for. Cue Leopold Magnus(evil doer) who wants Mr. Tomn, she becomes a Relic Knight, takes out bad guys hired to kill her, wins race. Rin was assigned to watch out for her(but did nothing but watch), Betty and Lug were working for another racer that got trashed, and it was a Black Diamond heavy weapons team that tried to nuke the Princess. Seemed pretty straight forward, if a little choppy.
I disagree its not straightforward at all choppy quite a lot.
Rin is not assigned to watch for her, at least not in the story it is supposed to convey, there is no explanation why she must undress to time it perfectly, doesn't show if she is hit or by whom, we can assume its the black diamond team, doesn't explain why she is out of her body and why or how she transforms her vehicle to a relic, or why it is transformed and not blown out, why she passes the circuit walls without exploding to atoms, why it is automatically repaired after her out of body form and real form connect (I guess?) and so on.
Its not straightforward, it is chopped to an enjoyable, unreadable mess misses many details it has on the text version and leaves many things unexplained.
Rin is not assigned to watch for her, at least not in the story it is supposed to convey, there is no explanation why she must undress to time it perfectly, doesn't show if she is hit or by whom, we can assume its the black diamond team, doesn't explain why she is out of her body and why or how she transforms her vehicle to a relic, or why it is transformed and not blown out, why she passes the circuit walls without exploding to atoms, why it is automatically repaired after her out of body form and real form connect (I guess?) and so on.
Its not straightforward, it is chopped to an enjoyable, unreadable mess misses many details it has on the text version and leaves many things unexplained.
I interpreted Rin is assigned to watch her, as in she mentions some female hasn't shown up yet, then later in the comic mentions how well Princess Malya did. You know, I have no idea why she had to unzip her suit either. Top of page 22 has the Black Diamond Team with the missile launcher pointing at her, and later she smokes them on page 24. We can assume her vehicle changes because her Relic was activated for some reason(probably a near-death experience would be my bet). I don't know what you mean about the circuit walls and exploding into atoms. How many pages do you have? Mine totals out to 34. I'm starting to wonder if they may have messed up some pages/sent out didn't versions.
The manga is the story of Malya they posted on the kickstarter (unfortunately only two parts, it is probably 4) the Manga is so horribly chopped that the story is not conveyed and since the last part(s?) of the text version are missing we cannot figure out what the story really is.
in any case in the text it describes that the energy walls are designed to turn vehicles and drivers to dust to prevent collateral damage to residential areas bellow, something the manga shows at some point but does not explain, among other things.
Got my email back from cmon regarding a refund just not sure what to do.
I really want these minis to be as good as the metals/resins/concept art but the little we have seen is less than inspiring.
I was told today that battle boxes and RK SDE is almost done and that I will get a finish date soon. I've also requested production updates on non-battle boxmodels, shipping plan updates from CMoN, and some pictures of the finish production contents, because I know we all want to see them!
Battle boxes are the starter sets, the non box models are the extra add on models it sounds like they haven't started them yet with 12 working days (AFAIK) until Chinese new year I don't think they are going to make it on time.
Joyboozer wrote: I'm wondering if that little burst of communication we briefly was only to offset any soda pop/ ninja division reputation damage effect on Megaman.
A new potential hiccup (for EU backers) has surfaced via the Rivit Wars fulfilment
The EU pledged were to be delivered from Germany (I think after being packed in China in the same way Relic Knights is due to be)
however Dave C has just posted this on the Rivit Wars thread
"Looks like us European backers won't be getting our copies anytime soon - tied up in Germany apparently even though the game is marked 14+ the parts look like childs toys so they are insisting that they apply for and get a CE mark if they can't convince the authorities otherwise they will have to go throught the CE application process and can't distribute the game until it meets the CE standards which could involve a redesign of some parts worst case.
Creator CoolMiniOrNot about 1 hour ago
The German customs is demanding a CE marking when Rivet Wars is clearly marked as 14 and above. This is an error on their part, and we are correcting them. -David
further info apparently they have a CE cert for a 14+ game they now have to convince the German authorities that this is not a childs toy despite the design and packaging
Creator CoolMiniOrNot 2 minutes ago ... Rivet Wars looks very toy like. But let me clarify, we did CE testing, and there is currently a CE 14+ on the box with the proper documentation. What they are asking for is documentation for kids toys which obviously is not necessary. But we are working on it and we are confident that we will get it resolved.
Hopefully it's just the 'cute' factor that's making Rivit Wars look like a young kids toy (in which case Relic Knights) should be safe (too sexy for young kids) from hitting the same problem,
but if it's just 'big box of plastic minis = childrens toy' then there could be issues for us too
I think Relic Knights will be fine in this regard the theme and miniatures are far more adult in nature and SDE already has a CE 13+ marking on it so it has a precedent where as Rivet Wars is a new game and the pieces are far more child's toy llke.
I think this game will be fine in that regard, too- but intended or not, rivet wars does look very much like something a child would want to play with, so I can see the issue there.
Wouldn't it be nice if this campaign were at the point where folks could worry about customs
My fear is less that it's something that we should (legitimately) be worried about
and more that if CMON 'upsets' the German customs system (even if they are in the right) they may find their future stuff will get looked at more closely (and slowly) just because some of those involved may want to prove a point
and more that if CMON 'upsets' the German customs system (even if they are in the right) they may find their future stuff will get looked at more closely (and slowly) just because some of those involved may want to prove a point
government agencies never like being proved wrong
I've received my Rivet Wars stuff and looking at the models (which are very nicely made) I can see where a customs agent that isn't well versed in boardgames would see a problem with them. They remind me alot of a toy called a weeble.
Relic Knights is a completly different beast given it's art direction and style. It has a much more mature them and they are mostly multi part kits.
Well no surprise here then put this one on the backburner for another few months again they finish production and shipping
Project Update #102: Relic Knights Production Update
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
Hello Everyone,
As many of you know the Chinese New Year is almost here. We had hoped that production would beat out the New Year, unfortunately we have received word that is not the case. The SDE Models are complete and Battle Boxes are close to completion. Production will be suspended for the Chinese New Year celebrations are then resume immediately after.
We will provide you with more updates as we receive them. In addition, Ross will continue answering your Kickstarter PMs and we welcome you to join Deke on the Soda Pop Forums.
We thank you for your continued patience and support.
What was the last solid fulfillment date we were given before we were overcome by cynicism? November 2013?
Even though I'd expected to receive something of Relic Knights in Q1, it looks like not even that's going to happen. I wonder what the odds are of getting our stuff by this May, a full year after the initial kickstarter target of May 2013.
I think it is safe t say that Q1 is highly unlikely at this point, and that Q2, while more likely, might be in jeopardy too.
Though honestly, at this point, I hope they just make sure that the quality is there.
An interesting summary from a KS backer:
Fhoenix about 4 hours ago
Update #78 Feb 21, 2013
Even more, we're happy to say that all of the models have been delivered to our manufacturers. Now that the Chinese New Year has passed they have begun tooling and mold-making. We have been told that since there are so many models to be done this process will take roughly six weeks
Update #79 Apr 4, 2013
New firm ship date - November
With spring's arrival, we know many of you are on pins and needles, and we are glad to say we have received a production timeline from our manufacturers. Unfortunately, it misses our May target date. The current production schedule we have been provided with has Relic Knights shipping from China in August. Which means our warehouse will receive product around November to ship to you
As Relic Knights expanded the scope of the project also expanded and the time ballooned right alongside. Our initial quote for creating the molds for all the models was 1.5 months. That time quote has now increased to 3.5 months. Consequently the time of production down the entire line increases; ultimately arriving at the new November date.
Update #97 Dec 9, 2013
Production Update--which basically said---finish before Jan. 31 or wait the 3 weeks of chinese new years and pick up after that.
Did Soda Pop offer the refunds to whomever wanted them, or have they been something people have had to pursue through their credit cards, and presumably SP just doesn't challenge it?
It's so common to see people go on at length about how "omg KS's don't give refunds just be patient!", but this isn't the first place I've seen with people saying they managed to get money back.
Forar wrote: Did Soda Pop offer the refunds to whomever wanted them, or have they been something people have had to pursue through their credit cards, and presumably SP just doesn't challenge it?
It's so common to see people go on at length about how "omg KS's don't give refunds just be patient!", but this isn't the first place I've seen with people saying they managed to get money back.
Yes, although it seems like not many people have actually gone that route.
You'd need to contact CMoN about a refund not SPM all payments were made to CMoN and they hold the funds SPM receive a royalty from CMoN for each product sold so CMoN would have to pursue this with SPM themselves but backers point of contact is CMoN. They don't advertise that they give refunds but they will if pushed they've now include a new part in the WoK CKPM that you had to agree that you would have no recourse to refund but all prior projects don't have this project creators aren't obliged to give refunds unless they can't deliver but CMoN seem open enough to granting refunds.
Interesting. Good on them for recognizing that not everybody is patient enough to wait out a 6-12+ month delay. Shame that it got there in the first place, but better that than nothing.
I was actually in contact with SPM via the KS message to get the ball rolling. They coordinated with CMON to make the refund happen. They were all pretty decent about it, and I honestly do appreciate that. I did eat most of the KS fees, but honestly for me at that time it was worth it (and remains so).
Having said that, I hope when they do deliver that you folks who stick with it are well rewarded and happy with the end product. I don't wish failure or bad things on SPM, CMON or any of the pledgers.
Out of curiosity, does getting a refund also entail being removed from the Kickstarter campaign page? As in, can you still post in the general/update comments?
I assume it's something they'd have to go over and do by hand, and if so, might only be done for those who opt out and remain insufferable in the comments. But it's interesting to see behind the curtain, given how many backers are quick to jump to "OMG YOU NEVER GET REFUNDS ON KICKSTARTER!"
I still get KS updated for the project, and I could still comment if I desired to.
Having said that, I was a backer on a recent project that funded, ended, and after the fact the project creator had some personal issues and worked with KS to 'cancel' the project after the fact and all backers were dropped. So they clearly CAN drop backers (they being KS) if they need to.
Alpharius wrote: I think it is safe t say that Q1 is highly unlikely at this point, and that Q2, while more likely, might be in jeopardy too.
Though honestly, at this point, I hope they just make sure that the quality is there.
Quality is absolutely the most important thing at this point. More delays would definitely be unwelcome and might even push some backers into pursuing refunds, but if the quality of the final production models is lacking after almost a year of delays that'll be more damaging to Relic Knights than any 3-week hiatus.
I'm still optimistic the models will turn out well.
Dang I thought somebody else would have done the hard work (so many images sob)....
Today we have pictures for you of how the Battle Boxes are set up.
First we have the Esper Battle Deck. For those of you who saw early prototypes of the deck you'll notice that we extended the color field around each symbol and upped the contrast so they are easy to discern.
[imghttps://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/544/314/3edb5094be69c3cd9e1d00ae0f17b705_large.JPG?1390232573[/img]
Unit cards
32 page mini-rulebook. The planned quickstart rules were upgraded to a full rules set. Making it so you have all the rules in an easy portable form.
Battle Deck hits the tray first.
Next up are the cards and tokens—fresh from their new molds.
On top of those go the mini rulebook, and the brave models of the Shattered Sword.
The dashboard is then placed on top.
Slid into their their boxes.
Finally, shrink wrapped and ready to begin their voyage. Here are pics of each faction's final boxes.
Shattered Sword
Cerci Speed Circuit
Noh Empire
Black Diamond
Doctrine
Star Nebula Corsairs
We will continue posting more pictures of final production as we get them!
I was out and about when the update hit - but I can't say I'm sad you beat me to it, Orlando!
Everything looks nice, but I'm a bit apprehensive about the actual miniatures, especially as they could have taken some close up pics of 'Production' samples but didn't?
Wonder what material they used for the dash board, I hope at the very least it's a heavyweight laminated paper if not laminated folding box board. If it's bog standard paper it's going to tear up pretty fast. Also why do shattered sword have purple not blue bases? Either mis pack nightmare or preproduction items cobbled together to make it look like production has started when it hasn't?
I spoke to soon CMON just got back in touch with me to say since i last spoke to them that all refunds are now being delt with by SPM so I get to start again now *Sigh*
After the latest updates i'm now in two minds again, but I find it really really suspicious that they can put a full update out about the boxes of all things and still not show any pictures of the actual models, are they that bad that after the spiny grainy turntable of horror there not going to bother?
It almost doesn't seem real. Are we sure those images aren't all special effects and photoshop?
Like the look of those boxes but I'm really glad at the full rules being included - traded in all my rulebooks for more stuff, the right thing to do. Good on SPM for this content update even if it does raise a few questions. Hopefully the next update will show us what's in those bags.
Oh Deke has just posted this on the Soda Pop forum [my additions in brackets]
Just to be clear—you will receive every model you pledged for [minor KS comments panic since the boxes have different contents to the KS lists]. The majority of the models will be arriving to you in retail packaging. Some of the final retail packaging ended up different than how the Kickstarter was organized. This is why the Battle Box contents do not directly align to the Kickstarter "Starters." Relic Knights and any additional models you pledged for will be supplied in their own boxes [once again retail packaging as this is how they're going to be sold].
Base inserts [those fancy KS things we unlocked but never really saw if you cast you minds back many moons] will be provided in a number of baggies based on faction with enough bases to cover everything in the Starter pledge plus bonuses.
I think that is the way it worked for me. I only ever contacted or gave info to SPM, but CMON (I believe) processed the refund. I never dealt directly with CMON on this issue.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: ... Also why do shattered sword have purple not blue bases? Either mis pack nightmare or preproduction items cobbled together to make it look like production has started when it hasn't?
Deke has confirmed that all of the bases are purple SPM wanted to do something a little different rather than black bases but purple is the only colour they come in.
there's also this
Questions:
Also is Relic Knights still being air shipped to the US after it is completed?
Answer:
Since everything will be arriving in a single consolidated shipment it will come by sea.
That goes against what has been said recently and it means at least 4 weeks shipping time after production is complete just to get the stuff to the US. So if they finish production by the end of February your into April shipping to backers may be even May?
I hope Deke's wrong (or just not up to date with CMONs plans) as he thinks the factory is down till 20th Feb,
so since Chinese factories often do yearly maintenance when they get back after the holiday I don't se production starting up again till March so your probably right on sometime in May for US backers
and you could probably add another month for the European stuff
I'm assuming that, much like Robotech and some other KS's I'm in, there are those declaring loudly how awesome everything is and how they'll be happy if they get their stuff by 2025 and Kickstarters are always late why is everyone so negative just leave poor SPM/CMoN/China alone?
When I actually read Kickstarter comment pages, it really is only to see if the creators themselves have posted anything of value and/or an update of sorts.
Actually spending too much time in there 'for real' is too horrible a task to even contemplate...
Purple bases are neat. For those who don't like them there is always paint. Should look great for Cerci and Black Diamond I think. Good to know that it's still getting air-mailed, not that it really matters to me seeing how late it already is. September 2012 to possibly May? 4 Months shy of 2 years. Granted, it may come earlier. I'm just hoping they have it ready for Gencon this year.
Sinful Hero wrote: Purple bases are neat. For those who don't like them there is always paint. Should look great for Cerci and Black Diamond I think. Good to know that it's still getting air-mailed, not that it really matters to me seeing how late it already is. September 2012 to possibly May? 4 Months shy of 2 years. Granted, it may come earlier. I'm just hoping they have it ready for Gencon this year.
They were supposed to have a RK tournament at Templecon this year... It's been canceled
All of the SDE relic knights minis are KS/convention exclusives they aren't limited editions in SPMs normal meaning of the word.
I'd imagine refunds would be on an all or nothing (less KS fees) basis might be difficult to argue your not willing to wait except for these minis plus their system probably isn't set up to split orders. Be interested to hear if anyone manages to though.
Man, "Misc Games" is more becoming "post-KS house of horrors" . I find it all very interesting to read, of course... just glad that, at least in this one particular case, I'm just an onlooker and not someone with a financial stake in it!
Ok, I'm out. Got the confirmation today, refund process has begun. I regret pulling out of this one more than I regret going into the Sedition Wars KS, but I don't really have a choice. I've spent almost 12 hours over the past two days cleaning up my game room and when you just have so much unbuilt that you're actually labelling boxes with "Misc Forge World", or splitting the contents of untouched boxes of Wraithguard to jam the sprues into other untouched boxes of Wraithguard just to save space, then it's time to stop.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ok, I'm out. Got the confirmation today, refund process has begun. I regret pulling out of this one more than I regret going into the Sedition Wars KS, but I don't really have a choice. I've spent almost 12 hours over the past two days cleaning up my game room and when you just have so much unbuilt that you're actually labelling boxes with "Misc Forge World", or splitting the contents of untouched boxes of Wraithguard to jam the sprues into other untouched boxes of Wraithguard just to save space, then it's time to stop.
Pfft, lightweight. Clearly you've never watched the US show "Hoarders"! If you don't need to climb over stuff and move unpainted minis around just to go to the bathroom, you don't need to change a thing.
I know that feeling from another campaign; "wow, such a great deal, so much stuff... where the feth am I going to put it all? Whelp, guess I'd better hope the secondary market is feeling lucrative..."
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ok, I'm out. Got the confirmation today, refund process has begun. I regret pulling out of this one more than I regret going into the Sedition Wars KS, but I don't really have a choice. I've spent almost 12 hours over the past two days cleaning up my game room and when you just have so much unbuilt that you're actually labelling boxes with "Misc Forge World", or splitting the contents of untouched boxes of Wraithguard to jam the sprues into other untouched boxes of Wraithguard just to save space, then it's time to stop.
Man, throw out the boxes, cut everything you own off the sprue and put it in zip loc bags, you will save enough room to at least double your collection of unbuilt stuff. If I can cram 5.000 pts in each starter set sized box, so can you.
Lord Blackfang has some solid advice there. Doing that (awhile back) allowed me to cram more than I should into space previously wasted. The boxes are now heavy enough to almost crush me. (So I'm getting there, JoyBoozer, aka Happy Drunk. )
I wouldn't call Relic Knights a horror story. The most grievous thing SPM have done is perhaps not communicate as well as they could. The pledge rewards running a skosh late isn't great either. But, and I mentioned this already, the models will be the ultimate decider on where I rank this KS. Some of the previews of test runs have been pretty bad, though.
Honestly the delays on this KS aren't the reason I'm pulling out. The delays don't bother me in the slightest - I'm an exceptionally patient person after all. I'm doing it because of space concerns. I don't have room for it. Pure and simple. And I'd rather have the money back right now.
Yeah, I want the SDE guys and the Penny Arcade minis, but I can live without them.
Question:
Any word yet on photos of the production models?
Answer:
We just got some of the battle boxes express shipped to us. I will have some straight from the box pics and video courtesy of my iphone starting tomorrow and over the course of a few days. With nice, properly lit studio photos a bit later.
Alpharius wrote: They probably be better served by skipping the potentially not that sharp iPhone photos and waiting for the studio shots...
I honestly don't see why they would have to wait for decently shot pictures. They know the figs are coming, it doesn't seem too difficult a thing to jump right into good pictures when they show up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They posted the new update. Figs look better than I expected them to.
The iPhone 5 has a really nice camera. I have been pissing around with my wife's, and even in questionable lighting it takes some good shots of models.
But yea, a real camera and a light box would probably be a good call.
Star Nebula Corsairs Battle Box
10 comments Like 9 likes
Hello Everyone,
We had one of each of the new Battle Boxes express mailed to us so that we could get pictures for you. Today, and each day next week, we will show pictures and a short video from our unboxing of the battle boxes.
Please note that this is NOT studio video. These are pictures and video that we took on my trusty iphone. Studio photography will be following after Templecon. We just couldn't wait to share!
First, is the contents of the Battle Deck. Every Battle Box includes one Battle Deck. The Battle Deck includes your 42 card Esper Deck. In addition, it includes double-sided action reference cards, scenario reference cards, tracker cards for primary and second objectives, and token key card.
Next is the mini-rulebook. Every Battle Box had its quickstart rules upgraded to a mini-rulebook. The mini-rulebook is 32 pages and includes all of the rules to play the game. We took just a couple photos of the page spreads. You can download a pdf copy of the mini-rulebook on the Soda Pop Miniatures Media Page.
And now the faction specific contents of the Star Nebula Corsair Battle Box. The models are: Captain Harker and his cypher, Caeser, a squad of 5 Corsairs, and 1 Broadside. In addition to the models are the faction colored tokens, cards, and dashboard.
Last but not least is a short video of the models all assembled. Like the pictures, video was taken immediately after assembly with my iphone. Studio quality shots will be forthcoming.
Next up for our unboxing pictures is the Cerci Speed Circuit Battle Box. The Cerci Battle Box features Marie-Claude, Esmee, two Pit Crew, and the Royal Wrecker.
We have received a few questions about the difference between the Battle Boxes and the Kickstarter "Starters." The majority of the models will be arriving to you in retail packaging. Some of the final retail packaging ended up different than how the Kickstarter was organized. This is why the Battle Box contents do not directly align to the Kickstarter "Starters." Any additional models you pledged for, such as the Relic Knights, will be supplied in their own boxes.
Templecon is coming and Soda Pop is going to be there! Stop by and say "hello" to John, Chris, and Ross. They'll be there all weekend answering questions and running some Super Dungeon: Arena. If you haven't registered it's not too late, passes are available at the door!
Tomorrow we get a visit from the fiendish Noh!
Deke, Soda Pop Miniatures
Looks good. Still waiting on those close-ups.
And I may purchase a foam rubber dashboard suitably RK themed.
Much improved indeed hopefully they all turn out like this where there are mold lines they are much lighter than before given some of the voids in the models mold lines are going to happen in a few places. Esmee's scarf and the pit crew with the raised spanner are the only two showing much in the way of mold lines.
Deke posted this on issue of prephoto clean up
The only clean up done was removing a few sprue plugs to allow for assembly, otherwise they're straight from the box.
With their ravenous god Nozuki driving them ever forward, the Noh Empire has preyed upon the stars since time immemorial. The Noh Empire Battle Box features Zineda, her cypher Spite, two Kyojin Berserkers, and one Render.
The Endless Hunger must be fed, and there is perhaps none more adept at fulfilling Nozuki's desire for destruction and suffering as High Priestess Zineda. Though priestesses of Nozuki are meant to stand above the politics of the Noh Dragon Fleets, Zineda's rivalry with the Relic Knight Kasaro To is well known. Nozuki encourages such blood feuds, for they keep his children strong.
Obviously impossible to tell until we see actual product up close, but that berserker on the left looks very close in detail to the resin/metal version that I have. I suspect that bent thin bits will still be an issue, but I'm actually quite surprised at how nice these look!
For millennia the Doctrine has tied its fate to the United Planetary Alliance, but the unprecedented destruction of the Darkspace Calamity has driven a wedge between these once mighty organizations. Now the codifiers and lorekeepers of the Doctrine seek their own path to protect their people and discover a solution to the ever encroaching Void.
Unfortunately, the long period of reliance upon the Alliance and the paladins of the Six Peers for security has left the Doctrine more vulnerable than even the wisest among them could have foreseen. As the Calamity unfolds they are increasingly forced to rely upon their youngest citizens. Only time will tell if they are able to rise to the challenge.
The Doctrine Battle Box includes Delphyne, her cypher Ekhis, one Librarian, and three Novitiates.
Unfortunately, I missed taking a picture of the dashboard and the Battle Box is now in the post trying to make its way to Templecon in time.
Protection of life above all else. The United Planetary Alliance was forged by the paladin orders of the Six Peers. It is through their dedication and sacrifice that civilization flourished, ushering in a time of prosperity almost beyond the scope of comprehension. Greatest of the orders, the Order of the Shattered Sword is the thin line holding back the chaos of Calamity—it is more than that. It is a shining beacon. It is a rallying cry! It is a promise that the Void will be stopped and life will prevail.
The Shattered Sword Battle Box comes with Francis Malory, his cypher Quill, 2 Paragons, and 5 Swordsworn.
Feb 7 2014
Black Diamond Battle Box
17 comments
9 likes
In the aftermath of the Sundering War the Merchants' Guild military was disbanded and the Security Charters were formed, ostensibly overseen by the Alliance. Black Diamond quickly grew to become the largest and most powerful of these charters. With its hierarchy composed primarily of former Guild personnel it has systematically absorbed the smaller charters. Those it cannot buy it seeks to control through wealth and political maneuvering.
Many fear that Black Diamond is merely a veneer for a leaner, more deadly Guild military apparatus. Black Diamond refutes these claims and remains faithful to the restrictions placed upon them by their charter—for now.
The Black Diamond Battle Box contains Leopold Magnus, his cypher Static, 1 M-8 Blitz Auto-Tank, and 5 Diamond Corps.
It's okay. The consensus in the update comments is that the tank is female to make up for the lack of Sophia Drake. We probably won't see her until 2015 which is a real shame. Try to picture the following image without her; less awesome, right?
Spoiler:
The models in the update are good, as expected of Black Diamond. Leopold, however, looks like he has much soft detail, like melting ice cream. It's particularly notable on his staff.
Just letting you guys know that, we will not be selling Relic Knights at cons, or otherwise before we ship it to Backers. We want to make sure everyone who backed us gets their goodies and can start playing!
- SPM_Ross
I'd take that as gospel for Cons that Soda Pop are attending, but whether it will bind CMON?
then a proper update
Today we have pictures of the production base inserts, along with a turn around video of the production Super Dungeon Explore models.
There's a spinny video of the SDEKS exclusive minis too, but it won't link so you'll have to view that on KS
Production will be picking up again soon and we will continue to keep you up-to-date with production information and photos as we receive them.
30mm is the smallest base size for RK but there are 40mm bases - the picture shows 30mm, 40mm and 50mm the 80mm insert for the relics is in the upper picture without a base. Inserts are very nice think I'll use them on most models except Noh who are getting rocky or lava baes.
I was thinking the same thing, but as 'inserts' will they be the right size for infinity (25mm and 40mm) as 'stand alone' bases?
Not at all. The insert area for a normal 30mm round lip base is around 22mm, the same as the top of a 25mm base. (one fits inside the other if you place them top to top) I don't have the exact measurements but I've bought base inserts for the same size bases before.
The insert for a normal 40mm base will be about 31mm.
The insert for a normal 50mm base will be 45mm~ish.
I say normal since we don't know for sure that RK bases strictly adhere to industry standards or of they are a slight re-design on an old style.
You can usually just put the inserts on top of a 25mm and they work pretty well. I've done this a fair amount with the Dark Age base inserts. Sometimes you have to fillin some edges, but it's worked most of the time for me.
Alpharius wrote: That will get the bases up a bit high, and that could have Implications in Infinity.
It is one of the reasons I haven't picked up any of Micro Arts Infinity bases - they're too high!
Hmm if height is that much an issue then maybe using inserts as bases would be unethical even if they were the right sizes. I don't know Infinity at all but it sounds like too low would be as bad for opponents as too high is for you. Gha! I can't stand true LoS ruining cool modeling opportunities.
The rulebook preview was posted today. It is, perhaps, not as exiting as the miniatures but the layout looks slick and professional -as one would expect.
We have two excellent pieces of news for you today.
First, we received a preview copy of the full rulebook. This 272 page beauty needed to be shared so we filmed a short video flipping through the entire book.
And the big news is production has once again begun! We will be providing you with the timetable to finish the last of the miniatures and then shipping schedules very soon.
So if manufacturing finishes by Mid April they should be at the distribution centres by the start of May - 12 months late it is then be interesting to see how this plays out if they run the SDEKS before hand.
Project Update #112: Cerci and Black Diamond Update!
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
We have a couple production updates for you today. The base toppers, Cerci Speed Circuit, and Black Diamond factions have all completed manufacturing. They are awaiting their final quality control check and then will be sent off to be packaged.
We have also been told that manufacturing will be complete no later than mid-April. We will continue to update you as the factions complete manufacturing, move to packaging, and then shipping.
Manufacturing complete no later than mid April, a long trip on a boat, sorting it out afterwards... I'm going to guess late May or early June for most folks to get theirs.
I wish I had kept track of people's predictions on this, but yeah, the local gamers who pledged are not happy about it
RiTides wrote:Manufacturing complete no later than mid April, a long trip on a boat, sorting it out afterwards... I'm going to guess late May or early June for most folks to get theirs.
I wish I had kept track of people's predictions on this, but yeah, the local gamers who pledged are not happy about it
DaveC wrote:They are still air freighting them to the distribution centres so that will cut down on the time sat on a boat at least.
Yeah, the plan is still air freighting.
But even with that, I think we're still looking at Q3 at best now.
But even with that, I think we're still looking at Q3 at best now.
I don't want to believe that but it feels like the right call. My estimate of Q2 will probably come up short. They're only done with a third of the factions, right? Not sure where the rest of the stuff (prismatics, dark space, promo, and SDE figs) fits into the timetable.
Q3 makes even more sense due to the fact that they HAVE to ship this out to everyone in one go - no multiple waves.
The cost of air freighting everything in, combined with the cost of then mailing everything out, especially as how many price increases has the USPS had since this thing ended?
GrauGeist wrote:According to today's FB / KS update:
The base toppers, Cerci Speed Circuit, and Black Diamond factions have all completed manufacturing. They are awaiting their final quality control check and then will be sent off to be packaged.
We have also been told that manufacturing will be complete no later than mid-April. We will continue to update you as the factions complete manufacturing, move to packaging, and then shipping.
So they're rougly 1/4 of the way through production (2 of 6 factions, Void+Prismatic and cosplay+SDE).
Mid-April completion means shipping in late April/early June. US arrival & Customs early July.
Backers should have product in hand by late August?
Much earlier than that. Remember backers are having their items air shipped. There is NOT going to be 6 weeks of time on the water. I'll keep you updated with actual shipping times and production news as I am given them
Yet to be seen when "much earlier" than late August is. June? May?
So it turns out, despite claims to the contrary late last year, Soda Pop ARE making an additional apology mini for how late the project has run -but it will be in white metal so that plastic production time will not be lengthened. It also will NOT be shipped with pledges and instead they are giving a $15 credit to their webstore so we can order it when it is done.
That's pretty cool actually the $15 can be spent on anything not just Candy Heart. The leaping pose looks awkward to me But it's winning the poll I'll have to vote for charging when I get home and can log on to my account from the laptop.
The leaping pose isn't so bad but it makes me wonder how that sword is going to stay up on a metal mini with just the single arm holding it. It would look less awkward and offer more support if she two handed the thing. I'm also curious how she's supposed to stand in that pose. The picture on the Soda Pop forum makes it look less odd.
More than likely I'll be voting for the charging pose as well.
I hadn't realised how expensive SPM shipping had become it's $16.75 in shipping for 1 $15 mini!
That puts this mini at a customs value of $31.75, it doesn't matter that technically it's a gift it has retail value of $15 and SPM declare actual values on their parcel, that's about €23 as that's above the VAT threshold here of €22 I could be hit with VAT at 23% plus €6 handling fee, the post office let a lot go but SPM stuff is always getting stopped on me.
All in my free mini would cost $32.15 (€23.80) to claim.
I'm not looking for free shipping but perhaps a reduced rate to keep it below the VAT threshold and avoid additional costs.
Bah, yes. Rereading it now even the "NOT" is bolded. I guess that!'a why they're using store credit instead of just shipping the extra model- it's more of a discount for international backers instead of a "free" model.
OK conformation that the $15 is 1 per backer regardless of amount pledged, they are looking again at international shipping and the mini will be general release so available to all later.
From Deke via SPM forums
The Candy Heart credit is one per backer. It is not based on the pledge amount. However, this is not an exclusive miniature so you will be able to get more through the webstore if you want them.
For International Shipping we are working on a solution to make shipping to you more cost effective. I will provide an update as soon as I have details.
New update coming to the Kickstarter soon, with the final production timeline.
Star Nebula Corsairs and Doctrine are finishing up this week.
Next week Noh Empire and Shattered Sword will be finishing.
The last week of March will see the remaining models such as Darkspace, Prismatics, and Boost Markers wrapped up.
After everything has finished being packaged it will start being shipped. We will continue to provide you updates as that process begins.
Presumably when they say "After everything has finished being packaged it will start being shipped", they mean shipped to SPM for distribution to backers, right? Not shipped to us?
No, pretty sure they mentioned they'll do the packaging and sorting, then have it shipped out to the backers... So they should already have it at the packaging step? I guess?
DaveC wrote: That puts the RK minis issue to bed it's fair enough I don't have an issue with that as an RK backer
Creator Soda Pop Miniatures less than a minute ago
The Relic Knight SDE models will not be part of this Kickstarter. However, we have come to the decision that AFTER all Relic Knight backers have received their entire pledges we will make them available through our web store.
-Deke
Which its still likely that they'll be limited, I doubt they got an exact run with no overages.
Oh I don't care about that. As soon as I noticed my free gift for sticking with SPM throughout this debacle was going to cost me more in shipping I put in my refund.
New update coming to the Kickstarter soon, with the final production timeline.
Star Nebula Corsairs and Doctrine are finishing up this week.
Next week Noh Empire and Shattered Sword will be finishing.
The last week of March will see the remaining models such as Darkspace, Prismatics, and Boost Markers wrapped up.
After everything has finished being packaged it will start being shipped. We will continue to provide you updates as that process begins.
Given that this was posted on a Friday, I think they're double counting one of the weeks in March and just didn't want to say production would continue into April.
Joyboozer wrote: I asked for a refund back in December and was told by Deke no as they were about to begin shipping.
I asked last week for a refound and I still don't have any answer.
They seem to treat backers as kindly as RH! Not good at all...
Ach, another company with a first and last deal forever, better for my pourse!
Well the split is official (in case anyone hadn't heard )
CMoN will fulfill the Relic Knights KS and then transfer the remaining stock to SPM. It looks like Ninja Division will be responsible for any customer service issues that arise - oh messy!
Soda Pop Miniatures and CoolMiniOrNot announce the ending of the publishing relationship of Soda Pop Miniatures titles Super Dungeon Explore™ and Relic Knights™.
“We are happy with the cooperative effort with CoolMiniOrNot over the past 3 years as publishers of our titles Super Dungeon Explore™ and Relic Knights™”, said John Cadice, Creative Director of Ninja Division*. “We are now looking forward to self-publishing these titles and bringing great games to our fans everywhere!”
“As agreed with Soda Pop Miniatures, we will finish fulfilling all existing orders on these titles including those on the Relic Knights Kickstarter, and transfer full control and inventory to Soda Pop Miniatures in an orderly fashion in the coming weeks,” added Chern Ann Ng, Director at CoolMiniOrNot. “The team at CoolMiniOrNot has greatly enjoyed publishing these excellent titles. We wish Soda Pop Miniatures and Ninja Division all the best on their future plans.”
Please direct product inquiries for Super Dungeon Explore™ and Relic Knights™ to sales@ninjadivision.com.
Ninja Division is going to be the new publishing arm - manufacturing, distribution that sort of thing (although they were originally set up as a design studio to side step Soda Pops agreements with CMoN and allow some of the same people to work on other non CMoN published projects, I'm not sure where the 3rd party design work fits into the new structure they still have 2 outside projects on the go) and Soda Pop Miniatures is the design studio - miniatures, rules etc.
They have more or less the same staff/owners in any case. You'll often hear people refer to them as Ninja Pop for that reason.
1) I remain a fan of SP/ND and Relic Knights
2) Here's a video from GAMA (?) that talks about SDE and RK:
3) Some interesting comments about RK are:
A) "...coming this summer for all of our backers." - Summer? I was thinking this was going to finally ship before that?
B) "...that we Kickstarted a little over a year ago." - RK KS launched in August of...2012 and finished in September of...2012.
Still really looking forward to this though, but...
I am sadly not really looking forward to it anymore. I guess I will be pretty excited when my stuff gets here, but it has just been so long I can't bring myself to feel upbeat about it at all, even when new pictures etc. come out. Maybe that means I shouldn't have pledged in the first place, or just am at a different place in my life now, but whatever the reason, I just can't care now.
The poll to choose the pose for Candy Heart hasn't even clsoed yet. Backers get the credit when the mini is in production.
Once the pose has been chosen Soda Pop will finalize the sculpt. The digital file will then been sent to get a 3D master. Once we have approved the master, production will begin. At this time all backers will receive a $15 credit in the Soda Pop Store. This credit may be redeemed for Candy Heart or for any product in our store.
DaveC wrote: The poll to choose the pose for Candy Heart hasn't even clsoed yet. Backers get the credit when the mini is in production.
Once the pose has been chosen Soda Pop will finalize the sculpt. The digital file will then been sent to get a 3D master. Once we have approved the master, production will begin. At this time all backers will receive a $15 credit in the Soda Pop Store. This credit may be redeemed for Candy Heart or for any product in our store.
It's still a discount outside the US. I imagine we'll have to pay shipping too.
Shipping and customs charges will exceed the value of the item itself for those of us in the Uk, we are actually better off not using the credit at all.
It's still a discount outside the US. I imagine we'll have to pay shipping too.
Shipping and customs charges will exceed the value of the item itself for those of us in the Uk, we are actually better off not using the credit at all.
Whether or not you have $15 off those charges will be applied. It's part of ordering items from companies based out of another country. If I order something from Europe it's going to cost more to ship to me than something from California. Everyone gets the same amount discounted- it's just that US citizens don't pay more from buying from a US-based company.
It's still a discount outside the US. I imagine we'll have to pay shipping too.
Shipping and customs charges will exceed the value of the item itself for those of us in the Uk, we are actually better off not using the credit at all.
Whether or not you have $15 off those charges will be applied. It's part of ordering items from companies based out of another country. If I order something from Europe it's going to cost more to ship to me than something from California. Everyone gets the same amount discounted- it's just that US citizens don't pay more from buying from a US-based company.
Your obviously struggling to grasp a very simple concept, it's not like we are simply getting less discount it's the fact that to accept that offer actually puts us at a loss. We are better off not accepting it in the first place. It is not worth the $30 in charges to get a $15 mini.
I'd far rather have to option of choosing whether on not to spend my credit than not having the credit at all
(and I could always choose to use it for a mate in the USA as a birthday/Xmas present or part exchange on a trade if I don't want to spend it myself)
The cost of shipping is included when assessing the threshold so will make it liable.
As per HMRC website
Value Added Tax (VAT) - Import VAT is charged at the same rate that applies to similar goods sold in the UK and applies to commercial goods over £15 in value, and on gifts that are over £36 in value. However, please note that commercial consignments sent to the UK from the Channel Islands do not benefit from any relief of import VAT. The value of the goods for import VAT is based on the:
basic value of goods, plus
postage, packing and insurance, plus
any import (Customs or Excise) duties charged
It's still a discount outside the US. I imagine we'll have to pay shipping too.
Shipping and customs charges will exceed the value of the item itself for those of us in the Uk, we are actually better off not using the credit at all.
Whether or not you have $15 off those charges will be applied. It's part of ordering items from companies based out of another country. If I order something from Europe it's going to cost more to ship to me than something from California. Everyone gets the same amount discounted- it's just that US citizens don't pay more from buying from a US-based company.
Your obviously struggling to grasp a very simple concept, it's not like we are simply getting less discount it's the fact that to accept that offer actually puts us at a loss. We are better off not accepting it in the first place. It is not worth the $30 in charges to get a $15 mini.
Then help me understand- if you want the miniature, and want to buy it, how is $15 off make it more expensive? SPM is not giving away a free mini, but offering a discount.
Sinful Hero wrote: Then help me understand- if you want the miniature, and want to buy it, how is $15 off make it more expensive? SPM is not giving away a free mini, but offering a discount.
Offering a free mini is exactly what SP is doing. Except that for non-US backers the cost to claim our free mini is more than the value of the mini itself.
Sinful Hero wrote: Then help me understand- if you want the miniature, and want to buy it, how is $15 off make it more expensive? SPM is not giving away a free mini, but offering a discount.
Offering a free mini is exactly what SP is doing. Except that for non-US backers the cost to claim our free mini is more than the value of the mini itself.
Not exactly. They're offering $15 that you can use on anything in the store- they just so happen to also be releasing Candy for $15 at the same time-which they expect you to spend it on. But you can use it in anything, not just miniatures.
Sinful Hero wrote: Then help me understand- if you want the miniature, and want to buy it, how is $15 off make it more expensive? SPM is not giving away a free mini, but offering a discount.
Offering a free mini is exactly what SP is doing. Except that for non-US backers the cost to claim our free mini is more than the value of the mini itself.
Not exactly. They're offering $15 that you can use on anything in the store- they just so happen to also be releasing Candy for $15 at the same time-which they expect you to spend it on. But you can use it in anything, not just miniatures.
Even if we go in that rules lawyer approach, for most things offered, the cost of shipping and import taxes is more than the discount offered.
Sinful Hero wrote: Then help me understand- if you want the miniature, and want to buy it, how is $15 off make it more expensive? SPM is not giving away a free mini, but offering a discount.
Offering a free mini is exactly what SP is doing. Except that for non-US backers the cost to claim our free mini is more than the value of the mini itself.
Not exactly. They're offering $15 that you can use on anything in the store- they just so happen to also be releasing Candy for $15 at the same time-which they expect you to spend it on. But you can use it in anything, not just miniatures.
Even if we go in that rules lawyer approach, for most things offered, the cost of shipping and import taxes is more than the discount offered.
There's no rules lawyering about it- they specifically mentioned you can use it on whatever you want. The cost of shipping and import taxes would be applied whether or not you have $15 off or not. Everyone in the US has to pay shipping as well. No one is getting it free.
I'd far rather have to option of choosing whether on not to spend my credit than not having the credit at all
(and I could always choose to use it for a mate in the USA as a birthday/Xmas present or part exchange on a trade if I don't want to spend it myself)
The cost of shipping is included when assessing the threshold so will make it liable.
As per HMRC website
Value Added Tax (VAT) - Import VAT is charged at the same rate that applies to similar goods sold in the UK and applies to commercial goods over £15 in value, and on gifts that are over £36 in value. However, please note that commercial consignments sent to the UK from the Channel Islands do not benefit from any relief of import VAT. The value of the goods for import VAT is based on the:
basic value of goods, plus
postage, packing and insurance, plus
any import (Customs or Excise) duties charged
oops you're right, I was aware f the above but I was thinking of
Waiver of customs duty of less than £9 - Article 868 of EC Regulation (EEC) 2454/93 allows Member States to waive amounts of customs duty of less than 10 euros (sterling equivalent of £9).
Wow I'm going to have to get the chalk board out In minute.
Backers in the USA gain a benefit, the USA shipping is less than the value of the mini. Those backers end up in positive position compared to not taking up the offer.
Backers outside the USA face charges that are in excess of the value of the miniature. These backers end up in a negative position compared to not taking up the offer.
So only USA backers actually gain from this offer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @orlando if it's a gift rather than a purchase then they wave the shipping costs up to £36 ish iirc in terms of duty but these aren't gifts.
SPM do not mark items as gifts they state actual retail value on the packing however they generally don't state it inclusive of shipping costs so if customs are doing only a quick check they might only see $15 and let it through, I've had this happen recently where it would have otherwise been over had the shipping been noticed and added.
A company can not send a gift for customs purposes, they must be from a private individual to a private inidividual, they can send commercial samples but that's a different matter. I've noticed that SPMs stuff tends to get shipped in Deke's name maybe that's part of the reason? EDIT: Actually it's both first line of senders details is Soda Pop Miniatures second line is Deke.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Wow I'm going to have to get the chalk board out In minute.
Backers in the USA gain a benefit, the USA shipping is less than the value of the mini. Those backers end up in positive position compared to not taking up the offer.
Backers outside the USA face charges that are in excess of the value of the miniature. These backers end up in a negative position compared to not taking up the offer.
So only USA backers actually gain from this offer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @orlando if it's a gift rather than a purchase then they wave the shipping costs up to £36 ish iirc in terms of duty but these aren't gifts.
So how much is it without the $15? I understand that the shipping and other charges are more than the discount, but it's still $15 off no matter when or what you use it on. It's $15 you didn't have before, whether you use it or not.
@sinful hero your obviously trolling or have failed to understand what I posted in very simple terms.
Once again, if a UK backer uses the offered 'credit' on a $15 miniature they will incur a cost of approx $34 dollars to receive the miniature. So in real terms they haven't given a credit, simply an opportunity to lose money.
If you think that's a good thing then I think that will be end of the conversation.
I think we have some crossed wires, or you're not understanding my point- If the miniature is $34 without the credit, it will be $49 with would it not? If you want the miniature, you save $15. You are not required to spend the money at all, but if you do want to use the credit you save that money you would otherwise spend. I just disagree with your assertion that it's a detriment- they are not requiring you to use the credit if you don't want to, but if you ever want to make a purchase you have $15 credit to use.
At a glance, it's not much of an apology if it only goes out to some backers. That becomes less of a "thank you" and more of a "thank you for living in the US, or being willing to eat a massive S&H/duty/import fee!"
$15 credit that costs me $20-40+ to use isn't much of a credit. It's a discount at best.
So if one group is getting something 'free' and another group is getting 'thanks for all the help, would you like a coupon', it seems pretty reasonable for Group 2 to be frustrated. Yes, there are realities present regarding international shipping that none of us can control, but I don't see why they aren't simply pumping out enough of them for all the backers and firing them over to the packaging location.
Sinful Hero wrote: I think we have some crossed wires, or you're not understanding my point- If the miniature is $34 without the credit, it will be $49 with would it not? If you want the miniature, you save $15. You are not required to spend the money at all, but if you do want to use the credit you save that money you would otherwise spend. I just disagree with your assertion that it's a detriment- they are not requiring you to use the credit if you don't want to, but if you ever want to make a purchase you have $15 credit to use.
And with these import and shipping costs we will not use it, as simple as that and as it has been for many years, we will not buy, because I would not pay twice the cost of a mini to get it shipped to me and then risk paying an extra 28 or more percent, its a 15$ off to nothing and really a "thanks" only for those that live in the US.
Sinful Hero wrote: I think we have some crossed wires, or you're not understanding my point- If the miniature is $34 without the credit, it will be $49 with would it not? If you want the miniature, you save $15. You are not required to spend the money at all, but if you do want to use the credit you save that money you would otherwise spend. I just disagree with your assertion that it's a detriment- they are not requiring you to use the credit if you don't want to, but if you ever want to make a purchase you have $15 credit to use.
No. We can just buy Soda Pop product locally at full retail for cheaper than what we'd pay for the same product direct from Soda Pop using our "free" credit. So they haven't given us jack unless we purposefully decide to pay more to use this generous offer.
Sinful Hero wrote: I think we have some crossed wires, or you're not understanding my point- If the miniature is $34 without the credit, it will be $49 with would it not? If you want the miniature, you save $15. You are not required to spend the money at all, but if you do want to use the credit you save that money you would otherwise spend. I just disagree with your assertion that it's a detriment- they are not requiring you to use the credit if you don't want to, but if you ever want to make a purchase you have $15 credit to use.
No. We can just buy Soda Pop product locally at full retail for cheaper than what we'd pay for the same product direct from Soda Pop using our "free" credit. So they haven't given us jack unless we purposefully decide to pay more to use this generous offer.
Relic Knights is available at retail?
If it does become available at retail I think you mean. But really, thank you for finally saying something that makes sense. If it's only available direct, the $15 is worth it. If it goes retail, it's useless. Thank you for the clarification.
DaveC wrote: Did Candy Rush (the one with the large soda bottle) ever get released outside the SPM store? she's resin so I'm not sure she did.
If it's the model I'm thinking of, they had it at Gencon. Of course, I've never seen ANY Soda Pop stuff outside conventions, but that might be because I live in Dixie.
And our winner by a nose is Candy Charging! We will get the sculpt finalized and printed and then as soon as she is in production, add the $15 credit to backers accounts.
Great news, model manufacturing is complete! Final QC and packaging is underway. I am working on getting more information to do a proper update both here and for CMoN to post on the Kickstarter page. Hopefully today or tomorrow!
Deke posted the above on the SPM forums today. This is about to become a real thing.
We have great news for everyone today—All models have been completed!
They are now all in the final stages of quality control and getting their final packaging. That process should be completed around the 15th. All product will then head out to CoolMiniOrNot's fulfillment centers to begin the process of shipping out to all of you.
Soda Pop and CoolMiniOrNot will continue providing updates as they come available. The Darkspace Calamity comes!
Candy Heart
We would like to thank everyone who participated in our poll to choose the pose for Candy Heart. In the end Candy Charging won by a hair. We are finalizing her sculpt now. She will then go off to the 3D printer to create the masters for the molds. Once we've begun production we will provide all backers with their $15 credit in the Soda Pop Store. You may then use that credit to get your copy of Candy Heart or apply it to any other item in the store.
My excitement is starting to build as the end approaches. I had been more angry than anxious when thinking about this lately, but we're close now, and the excitement is rapidly rebuilding.
they'd have what, at least a year to get it done, right? 
)
On top of those go the mini rulebook, and the brave models of the Shattered Sword.
Not good at all...
unless we purposefully decide to pay more to use this generous offer.
