However the ruling regarding moving through walls hurts Tyranids more than most factions (unless running flyrant spam). Sounds like most events will ignore that one but still painful if it becomes law.
Flyrants gained Deep Strike and combined with Swooping mode means null deployment is a go.
Also Neurothropes might be an exceptionally good addition, since they no longer have to roll to hit.
ITC formats are going to be very different, some of these rulings are huge.
what are some big ones in particular
Single models can multi-charge.
Psychic Shriek auto-hits.
Flyers, FMC's and Super-heavies/Gargantuans no longer get toe in cover saves (but Vehicles might now due to wording)
Void Shield was greatly nerfed
No more Battle Brother units in Transports for Deployments
Only one Grenade in Assault
Some questionable rules but for the most part, a well received update. Most of the FAQ's are in line with the ITC FAQ/Errata.
Flyrants gained Deep Strike and combined with Swooping mode means null deployment is a go.
Also Neurothropes might be an exceptionally good addition, since they no longer have to roll to hit.
ITC formats are going to be very different, some of these rulings are huge.
what are some big ones in particular
Single models can multi-charge.
Psychic Shriek auto-hits.
Flyers, FMC's and Super-heavies/Gargantuans no longer get toe in cover saves (but Vehicles might now due to wording)
Void Shield was greatly nerfed
No more Battle Brother units in Transports for Deployments
Only one Grenade in Assault
Some questionable rules but for the most part, a well received update. Most of the FAQ's are in line with the ITC FAQ/Errata.
damn, those void shield rules. Still worth it I wonder?
Meh is all I can say. Might be better getting more units in. VSG biggest benefit was flat out stopping Grav.
Now if a unit can only hit and destroy one Shield in a shooting attack, then there is reason to take it, because it will protect you for three attacks and maybe more.
Frozocrone wrote: Meh is all I can say. Might be better getting more units in. VSG biggest benefit was flat out stopping Grav.
Now if a unit can only hit and destroy one Shield in a shooting attack, then there is reason to take it, because it will protect you for three attacks and maybe more.
thats true
if it just absorbs the first 3 glances and further damage allocates on through, then its not any good
I think I'm just gonna take an extra Mawloc from now on and save myself the cost of modelling one
Skytyrants with multiple relics are now no longer possible, ANY model can only have a single relic. Might stop some abuse elsewhere though.
One of the biggest I now noticed is an overruling of the "measure distances from vehicle hulls" in the BRB - now its only if specifically stated that abilities come into effect in vehicles. No more bunker/bastion shrouded bubbles guys...
Also, skyshield furled bits don't confer cover, which is bad for us wanting to stack it with shrouded.
Oh also, no vector striking or firing flamers for overwatch if you jinked.
Let's not forget the fact that Skyfire Blasts can hit Swoopers/Zoomers.
Granted they could hit FMC's before, but the ITC overruled it to say that Swooping FMC's couldn't be hit by Blasts. GWFAQ's always override the ITC FAQs.
Well, I was considering Khorne Daemonkin. Heldrakes are a tasty model, both design and rules wise.
Frozocrone wrote: Let's not forget the fact that Skyfire Blasts can hit Swoopers/Zoomers.
Granted they could hit FMC's before, but the ITC overruled it to say that Swooping FMC's couldn't be hit by Blasts. GWFAQ's always override the ITC FAQs.
Well, I was considering Khorne Daemonkin. Heldrakes are a tasty model, both design and rules wise.
They've also removed the non-skyfire blasts being able to scatter onto FMCs, which is nice - no more being D'd by exploding knights!
It isn't official yet. It's just the first draft. There still may be changes made to it.
winterman wrote: However the ruling regarding moving through walls hurts Tyranids more than most factions (unless running flyrant spam). Sounds like most events will ignore that one but still painful if it becomes law.
If I recall, that is only with certain terrain. Yeah, that's going to be a pain in the rear.
tag8833 wrote: I read the FAQ and all my Flyrants died to Psychic Shriek. Be careful guys. The Skies are no longer safe.
That depends. Psychic Shriek can't hit swooping flyers unless it has Skyfire (i.e. Flying Daemons or a psyker on a Skyfire Nexus).
The only real nerf has been to "toe-in-terrain" for our FMCs. Now that isnt good for us, at all, but I think some other armies got hit more, like all of the Imperium with BB transport changes. The "psychic scream doesnt roll to hit" is actually better for FMCs since auto-hit attacks have no effect on Flyers, and now our GSC broodlord can use the power as it auto hits. VSG nerf isn't good for those of us who used it, but also our massive amounts of haywire means we can take out VSGs a lot easier, so I call that a wash. One nerf on cover that we can still fix just by getting inside terrain, and debuffs to other armies, almost all around. I dont think we lost much in this one. I'll still be running PenTyrant with a malanthrope.
I don't agree. Nova hits flyers but beam weapons do not. To me the intent is that Novas can hit flyers but other witch fire powers follow the normal rules. Since you no longer roll to hit with powers like Shriek, therefore you cannot snap fire them at flyers (unless you've got Skyfire, in which case you can affect them normally).
Frozocrone wrote: Let's not forget the fact that Skyfire Blasts can hit Swoopers/Zoomers.
I'm not sure if that is the case. The FAQ only said that blasts with Skyfire can target flying targets, but it doesn't mean the blasts can actually hit them (unless there is a further errata somewhere I missed).
Also the ruling for witchfire powers that lack a shooting profile buffs up the poor Maleceptor a bit. Not spectacular, but the Neural Node might warrant a second look now.
Benlisted wrote: Skytyrants with multiple relics are now no longer possible, ANY model can only have a single relic. Might stop some abuse elsewhere though.
So the FAQ says a single relic per model unless stated otherwise. Does the codex state that Flyrants can take multiple relics?
I have a split opinion on this.
On one hand, I like the concept of dumping a bunch of relics onto one dude. For example, Ymgarl, Obliterax Melee Tyrant; Having this macho killing machine leading your army...
On the other, I can see that limiting one relic per model (unless stated otherwise) will lower the power level of some of these crazy combinations that you can come up with (mainly in space marines).
Frozocrone wrote: Let's not forget the fact that Skyfire Blasts can hit Swoopers/Zoomers.
I'm not sure if that is the case. The FAQ only said that blasts with Skyfire can target flying targets, but it doesn't mean the blasts can actually hit them (unless there is a further errata somewhere I missed).
Also the ruling for witchfire powers that lack a shooting profile buffs up the poor Maleceptor a bit. Not spectacular, but the Neural Node might warrant a second look now.
The RAW is still a No with regards to Skyfire blasts, though I think the intent is Yes, you can hit FMC's/flyers. The FAQ needs a FAQ. Lol.
Benlisted wrote: Skytyrants with multiple relics are now no longer possible, ANY model can only have a single relic. Might stop some abuse elsewhere though.
So the FAQ says a single relic per model unless stated otherwise. Does the codex state that Flyrants can take multiple relics?
I have a split opinion on this.
On one hand, I like the concept of dumping a bunch of relics onto one dude. For example, Ymgarl, Obliterax Melee Tyrant; Having this macho killing machine leading your army...
On the other, I can see that limiting one relic per model (unless stated otherwise) will lower the power level of some of these crazy combinations that you can come up with (mainly in space marines).
While our codex does not restrict you to only 1 Relic, it also does not give allowance to take multiple Relics so the FAQ'd limit of 1 Relic will apply to us.
In regards to the whole Psychic shriek hitting FMCs, shriek is an auto hitting attack, and attacks that auto hit have no effect on Flyers/FMCs unless it specifically says they can affect them.
wyomingfox wrote: Mucaloids and spores can now give up Tactical Objective points.
Wonder how that ruling will translate into the ITC, which is what we play here primarily. If they do count as a Destroy-a-unit in the ITC modified Maelstroms, then that's going to hurt us.
wyomingfox wrote: Mucaloids and spores can now give up Tactical Objective points.
Wonder how that ruling will translate into the ITC, which is what we play here primarily. If they do count as a Destroy-a-unit in the ITC modified Maelstroms, then that's going to hurt us.
ITC is going to have to review and rewrite their FAQ. for the most part they just have to reduce it as many of GW's changes are equivalent. But something will have to be done.
wyomingfox wrote: Mucaloids and spores can now give up Tactical Objective points.
Wonder how that ruling will translate into the ITC, which is what we play here primarily. If they do count as a Destroy-a-unit in the ITC modified Maelstroms, then that's going to hurt us.
It is important to note as well, that with void shields no longer blocking shriek, and with GSC being able to use shriek now with auto hits, GSC just got way nastier for things we normally have issues with like wraithknights.
jy2 wrote: I might actually have to give them a try now. GSC might work well with the Lictor formation where the opponent is at -1 LD.
Indeed, even the Neural Node formation is now interesting...forces you to take a maleceptor, but even its attack auto hits. Been contemplating a list with 6 units of zoees, 3 in neural node, 3 in a CAD, and the lictor formation or GSC
wyomingfox wrote: Mucaloids and spores can now give up Tactical Objective points.
Wonder how that ruling will translate into the ITC, which is what we play here primarily. If they do count as a Destroy-a-unit in the ITC modified Maelstroms, then that's going to hurt us.
This would apply Tau drone units as well, specifically thinking about the Piranha Firestream and the Drone net formations.
jy2 wrote: I might actually have to give them a try now. GSC might work well with the Lictor formation where the opponent is at -1 LD.
Indeed, even the Neural Node formation is now interesting...forces you to take a maleceptor, but even its attack auto hits. Been contemplating a list with 6 units of zoees, 3 in neural node, 3 in a CAD, and the lictor formation or GSC
The Maleceptor is an interesting case. It has been so much worse than any unit available to any army, and yet now that it doesn't have to roll to hit, and it isn't so easy to Krak grenade it to death, maybe it is just a sub-par unit.
With the new rules it still has a stupidly bad psychic power, but it will be twice as effective as it used to be. It will now do about 4-6 wounds for every wound it does to itself via perils, and even better in the formation. The formation has some value now. If the range were better it might have alot of value.
jy2 wrote: I might actually have to give them a try now. GSC might work well with the Lictor formation where the opponent is at -1 LD.
Indeed, even the Neural Node formation is now interesting...forces you to take a maleceptor, but even its attack auto hits. Been contemplating a list with 6 units of zoees, 3 in neural node, 3 in a CAD, and the lictor formation or GSC
The Maleceptor is an interesting case. It has been so much worse than any unit available to any army, and yet now that it doesn't have to roll to hit, and it isn't so easy to Krak grenade it to death, maybe it is just a sub-par unit.
With the new rules it still has a stupidly bad psychic power, but it will be twice as effective as it used to be. It will now do about 4-6 wounds for every wound it does to itself via perils, and even better in the formation. The formation has some value now. If the range were better it might have alot of value.
The power is actually pretty good when considered in a vacuum - the problem will still be the huge warp dice sink it is. To cast it even semi-reliably 3 times you'll need 12 dice. That's a 10 dice deficit - basically you need to take 3 flyrants and 2 solo zoans to fuel it, and you sorta render the zoans useless by doing so.
In the neural node, sure you'll get it off slightly easier, but you still only have 8 warp dice there - and you want to be casting 3 WC1 powers from the neurothropes too. That's another 6 dice needed to get them off semi-reliably - you still have a 10-dice deficit. I think anyone running this formation will end up having to run 2-3 solo zoans in elite slots just to power the thing, along with flyrants.
Personally I think the Neurothrope is now worth trying, but the Maleceptor is still going to be too dice-hungry to make use of multiple casts. I don't know if he's worth taking just for 1-2 shots with the power.
As I like to call him, the Maleceptor is a psychic-whore. Lol. He sucks cuz he literally sucks up all of your psychic dice. As I've said in my review, he is the opposite of a force-multiplier. He is a force-divider - he takes away from the army as opposed to making the army better. Being able to auto-hit with his psychic powers upgrades him from a F to a D, but he is still a bad unit. Use him only if you want to self-handicap yourself.
Now if you reduce Psychic Overload to a 1-WC power as well, now we're talking....
wyomingfox wrote: Mucaloids and spores can now give up Tactical Objective points.
Wonder how that ruling will translate into the ITC, which is what we play here primarily. If they do count as a Destroy-a-unit in the ITC modified Maelstroms, then that's going to hurt us.
This would apply Tau drone units as well, specifically thinking about the Piranha Firestream and the Drone net formations.
So atleast in my gaming group, we always played it this way to begin with. I don't recall the exact wording on spores, however for the drones, they specifically are not scoring units for all purposes of victory points. My group interpreted that as they can't contest objectives (or hold them themselves), and they do not give up points in regards to kill point objectives. However, for maelstrom like missions where the card says "kill 3 enemy units" we counted the drones as units that would count towards these objective cards.
For the past year and a half or so Ive been running intentionally gimped lists in tournaments, or at least taking known subpar units to Killadelphia and NOVA for the fun of it. I think Im going to NOVA again, and will be following suite.
No butterfly genestealers, but Ive got three lists that share the same idea pretty much. They took away my precious Superbeast melee flyrant, so he's absent as well. Which do you think is "Strongest"?
All using Leviathan formation, all melee tyrants are LW/BS/ScyTal/Electro/Adrenal Gland/Old Adversary:
For the past year and a half or so Ive been running intentionally gimped lists in tournaments, or at least taking known subpar units to Killadelphia and NOVA for the fun of it. I think Im going to NOVA again, and will be following suite.
No butterfly genestealers, but Ive got three lists that share the same idea pretty much. They took away my precious Superbeast melee flyrant, so he's absent as well. Which do you think is "Strongest"?
All using Leviathan formation, all melee tyrants are LW/BS/ScyTal/Electro/Adrenal Gland/Old Adversary:
For the past year and a half or so Ive been running intentionally gimped lists in tournaments, or at least taking known subpar units to Killadelphia and NOVA for the fun of it. I think Im going to NOVA again, and will be following suite.
No butterfly genestealers, but Ive got three lists that share the same idea pretty much. They took away my precious Superbeast melee flyrant, so he's absent as well. Which do you think is "Strongest"?
All using Leviathan formation, all melee tyrants are LW/BS/ScyTal/Electro/Adrenal Gland/Old Adversary:
Obviously not meant for top tables, but for entertainment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: * and I'm sure Jim is shaking his head. BTW are you going to NOVA again this year?
Currently, I am not planning on going to NOVA this year. Every year, I try to go to a major tournament that I have not gone to yet (with the LVO and BAO as my only must-go's). I still have other major tournaments I want to go to first.
There's nothing wrong with taking sub-optimal lists to a tournament. I usually give advice from the perspective of a list that can potentially win a tournament or at least hang with the other top tournament lists, but that isn't the only way to play the game. Go with what you like, not necessarily with what everyone else says you should run.
jy2 wrote: As I've said in my review, he is the opposite of a force-multiplier. He is a force-divider - he takes away from the army as opposed to making the army better.
Hence the Neural Node. Outside of the formation it doesn't do much, but being able to reroll ones whilst casting is helpful. I remember having a bit of fun with the formation when it first came out, though the Maleceptor was mostly just used to intercept things trying to tie up the Zoeys in assault.
Also speaking of reviews, might want to knock the grade on the Hive Crone down to a C in light of the new FAQ regarding Vector Strikes and Jinking. Poor thing just keeps getting hit with one nerf after another.
For the past year and a half or so Ive been running intentionally gimped lists in tournaments, or at least taking known subpar units to Killadelphia and NOVA for the fun of it. I think Im going to NOVA again, and will be following suite.
No butterfly genestealers, but Ive got three lists that share the same idea pretty much. They took away my precious Superbeast melee flyrant, so he's absent as well. Which do you think is "Strongest"?
All using Leviathan formation, all melee tyrants are LW/BS/ScyTal/Electro/Adrenal Gland/Old Adversary:
Obviously not meant for top tables, but for entertainment.
Add one more vote for list 3). It looks like the most complimentary of all three lists, everything has more or less the same goal of getting up close quickly. My only real complaint is that I don't think it really takes advantage of the Levithan detachment benefits, apart from the third HQ slot for the Tervigon. As questionable as it may be, I think I would swap to a standard combined arms detachment and replace the Tervigon with a 10-ish strong Genestealer brood + Brood Lord or a 3 strong Zoey brood + Neurothrope for Warlord preservation purposes. Remember, in 7th any character model can be the warlord, not just HQ models.
Thanks for the feedback all, I do agree that the 3rd is probably the best, but I also agree that the Crones took a huge hit with the jink nerf.
One list that Im looking at for a local tournament at the end of the month is
Flyrant w/devs and electro
Flyrant w/devs and electro
Mucolid
Mucolid
Malanthrope
Flyrant w/devs and electro
Flyrant w/devs and electro
Mucolid
Mucolid
Neural Node Formation
A much more simple list with 16 warp charge base. Maleceptor's 18" SiTW makes my meta's daemon lists duck and cover. It lacks scoring ability, but honestly we dont exactly excel at that.
Hi guys, newer player here been collecting for about a year. I'm working on a list for our 2nd week in my local escalation tournament and having trouble winning my games.
The restrictions last week were
Min 1 HQ 2 Troop; and max 3 HQ 6 Troop 1 Elites (1000 points)
(No flyers, no formations Tyranids are allowed 2 Monstrous Creatures)
And this week it goes up to
Min 1 HQ 2 Troop; and max 3 HQ 6 Troop 2 Elites (1000 points)
(No flyers, no formations, Tyranids are allowed 4 Monstrous Creatures)
I've been theory crafting a little bit on a way to win more games cause I'm competitive. I know this isn't the post your list place but I have a few questions very specific to nids.
1000 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster
: Combined Arms Detachment (44#, 996 pts)
2 Venomthrope Brood, ((C:T, pp. 47 & 98); Infantry; Lash Whips; Toxic Miasma; Instinctive Behaviour (Hunt); Poisoned (2+); Shrouded; Spore Cloud; Very Bulky)
20 Termagant Brood, ((C:T, pp. 42 & 96); Infantry; Fleshborer x20; Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk); Move Through Cover)
1 Tyrannocyte ((Shield of Baal - Leviathan); Monstrous Creature; Barbed Strangler x5; Deep Strike; Fearless; Drifting Death; Instinctive Fire; Transport Spore; Fear; Hammer of Wrath; Move Through Cover; Relentless; Smash; 20 model capacity)
3 Ripper Swarm Brood, ((C:T, pp. 53 & 97); Infantry; Fearless; Instinctive Behaviour (Feed); Swarms)
1 Hive Tyrant, ((C:T, pp. 40 & 94); Monstrous Creature (Character); Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Fear; Hammer of Wrath; Move Through Cover; Relentless; Smash; TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x1; Stranglethorn Cannon)
10 Termagant Brood, ((C:T, pp. 42 & 96); Infantry; Fleshborer x10; Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk); Move Through Cover)
1 Tyranid Prime, ((C:T, pp. 41 & 95); Infantry (Character); Scything Talons x1; Alpha Warrior; Independent Character; Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Very Bulky; Fleet; Furious Charge; The Miasma Cannon; Warlord; Adrenal Glands)
2 Tyranid Warrior Brood, ((C:T, pp. 41 & 96); Infantry; Scything Talons x2; Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Very Bulky; Deathspitter x2; Flesh Hooks)
1 Tyranid Warrior (Barbed Strangler; Scything Talons; Flesh Hooks)
3 Hive Guard Brood, ((C:T, pp. 46 & 98); Infantry; Impaler Cannon x3; Instinctive Behaviour (Hunt); Very Bulky)
1 Combined Arms Detachment,
So a few questions, I worked out statistically I've got the best chance of killing vehicles if I take the impaler cannons because of the ignores cover and no LOS required. My question is if I put the Tyranid Prime in the tyrannocyte with them can he confer his Assault Grenades to the unit incase I need to charge something after firing; (The challenge this week is to issue a challenge with your warlord for 3 bonus league points (Used at end for prizing); the prime is my named warlord since the first game).
Also, do you think the rippers are worth it at this points level for objective holding? They seem to work pretty well in my last few games (I'm 1W 2L for first week).
My main issue is I played against an Astra Militarum player who rolled a WL trait that let him give Ignores Cover to THREE of his units, which totally destroyed my army in one of those games, the other loss was a rules mistake, we let one of his outflanking models charge the turn it came in, and i accidentally let my Tervigon go at initiative 1 with crushing claws, didnt know mostrous ignored unwieldy.)
The restriction on tyranid fliers and MC's really handicap you, unfortunately. We (humorously enough) lack mobility and your list lacks punch, so right now you have an uphill battle.
Your Warlord will not confer his assault grenades. Rippers are cool for objective holding, but it does depend what kind of missions your league is running.
Are these pretty much the models you own? I'd take a 2x devourer Carnifex over a unit of Hive Guard any day for the points. Hive Guard are really subpar (a unit of three means 3 shots hit and against AV12 you're lucky if you get 2HP)
I own quite a few models, but only one carnifex. And there are no heavy supports allowed till week 4... (I know.. I wanted dakka fexes)
We're running random missions, on a 1-3 its Eternal War randomly rolled, and on a 4-6 is Maelstrom randomly rolled.
The hive guard are really bad for their points, but the biggest thing I can run into right now is an Ironclad dreadnought. MOST of the vehicles im shooting are AV11.
Come to think of it, would lictors be better than Hive-guard.. hmm
Alaxandir wrote: Hi guys, newer player here been collecting for about a year. I'm working on a list for our 2nd week in my local escalation tournament and having trouble winning my games.
The restrictions last week were
Min 1 HQ 2 Troop; and max 3 HQ 6 Troop 1 Elites (1000 points)
(No flyers, no formations Tyranids are allowed 2 Monstrous Creatures)
And this week it goes up to
Min 1 HQ 2 Troop; and max 3 HQ 6 Troop 2 Elites (1000 points)
(No flyers, no formations, Tyranids are allowed 4 Monstrous Creatures)
I've been theory crafting a little bit on a way to win more games cause I'm competitive. I know this isn't the post your list place but I have a few questions very specific to nids.
1000 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster
: Combined Arms Detachment (44#, 996 pts)
2 Venomthrope Brood, ((C:T, pp. 47 & 98); Infantry; Lash Whips; Toxic Miasma; Instinctive Behaviour (Hunt); Poisoned (2+); Shrouded; Spore Cloud; Very Bulky)
20 Termagant Brood, ((C:T, pp. 42 & 96); Infantry; Fleshborer x20; Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk); Move Through Cover)
1 Tyrannocyte ((Shield of Baal - Leviathan); Monstrous Creature; Barbed Strangler x5; Deep Strike; Fearless; Drifting Death; Instinctive Fire; Transport Spore; Fear; Hammer of Wrath; Move Through Cover; Relentless; Smash; 20 model capacity)
3 Ripper Swarm Brood, ((C:T, pp. 53 & 97); Infantry; Fearless; Instinctive Behaviour (Feed); Swarms)
1 Hive Tyrant, ((C:T, pp. 40 & 94); Monstrous Creature (Character); Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Fear; Hammer of Wrath; Move Through Cover; Relentless; Smash; TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x1; Stranglethorn Cannon)
10 Termagant Brood, ((C:T, pp. 42 & 96); Infantry; Fleshborer x10; Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk); Move Through Cover)
1 Tyranid Prime, ((C:T, pp. 41 & 95); Infantry (Character); Scything Talons x1; Alpha Warrior; Independent Character; Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Very Bulky; Fleet; Furious Charge; The Miasma Cannon; Warlord; Adrenal Glands)
2 Tyranid Warrior Brood, ((C:T, pp. 41 & 96); Infantry; Scything Talons x2; Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Very Bulky; Deathspitter x2; Flesh Hooks)
1 Tyranid Warrior (Barbed Strangler; Scything Talons; Flesh Hooks)
3 Hive Guard Brood, ((C:T, pp. 46 & 98); Infantry; Impaler Cannon x3; Instinctive Behaviour (Hunt); Very Bulky)
1 Combined Arms Detachment,
So a few questions, I worked out statistically I've got the best chance of killing vehicles if I take the impaler cannons because of the ignores cover and no LOS required. My question is if I put the Tyranid Prime in the tyrannocyte with them can he confer his Assault Grenades to the unit incase I need to charge something after firing; (The challenge this week is to issue a challenge with your warlord for 3 bonus league points (Used at end for prizing); the prime is my named warlord since the first game).
Also, do you think the rippers are worth it at this points level for objective holding? They seem to work pretty well in my last few games (I'm 1W 2L for first week).
My main issue is I played against an Astra Militarum player who rolled a WL trait that let him give Ignores Cover to THREE of his units, which totally destroyed my army in one of those games, the other loss was a rules mistake, we let one of his outflanking models charge the turn it came in, and i accidentally let my Tervigon go at initiative 1 with crushing claws, didnt know mostrous ignored unwieldy.)
What do you guys suggest?
Yeah a lack of flyers is a huge blow to Tyranids as an army. Can you use FW? A malanthrope would help instead of 2 Venoms. Other than that, I would try and minimize synapse dependency since none of our non-flying synapse creatures are survivable. Try Lictors, Mawlocs, Tyranofex in Pods, rippers, etc. I'd also avoid warriors and the prime, they die very easily for their points. Also assault grenades don't confer to the unit, but how does your Prime have assault grenades in the first place? Hive Guard arent great but are usable, however I would really avoid Termagants. If your synapse units get taken out, then gants become essentially useless. Get mobile units that can act independently (again, lictors/mawlocs/podding MCs) and possibly malanthropes if you can.
EDIT: No heavy support in a 1000 point game? Holy hive mind that's bad. Heavy Support is probably our most diverse slot. But, then you cant even take tyrannocytes. Ouch. At this point you could just try and rush your opponent with the fastest units possible. Gargoyles, shrikes, a venomthrope, maybe use a winged jump MC like a flyrant, who just doesnt swoop? lictors, rippers and other DS units are good. Even raveners in this format might be decent.
* Week 1- 1000 point Combined Arms Detachment (CAD). Minimum 1 HQ and 2 Troops. Maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, and 1 Elite.
* Week 2- 1000 point CAD. Minimum 1 HQ and 2 Troops. Maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, and 2 Elites.
* Week 3- 1250 point CAD. Same minimum requirements but maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, and 3 Elites. Flyers and monstrous creatures are allowed.
* Week 4- 1250 point CAD. Same minimum requirements but maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elites, and 1 Fast Attack. Can also include an allied detachment.
* Week 5- 1500 point CAD. Same minimum requirements but maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elites,2 Fast Attack, and one Heavy support. Can also include an allied detachment. Additionally, Forgeworld models are allowed at the start of week 5 and until the end of the league.
* Week 6- 1500 point CAD. Same minimum requirements but maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, and 3 heavy support. Can also include an allied detachment, and you can have up to 1 strength D weapon in your army now. This includes models, weapons, psychic powers, or abilities that can gain strength D.
* Week 7- 1850 point CAD, Formation Detachment (Forgeworld included), or “Decurion” style detachment. You can have up to 2 formations total unless you use a Decurion. If you use a Decurion you can have any number formations from your base codex to reach the requirements for the Decurion, but no additional formations outside of it. Lords of war are allowed. Also you can have up to 2 strength D weapons in your army now. This includes models, weapons, psychic powers, or abilities that can gain strength D.
* Week 8- 1850 point CAD, Formation Detachment, or “Decurion” style detachment. You can have any number of formations in your list now. Lords of war are allowed. Pretty much anything goes army construction wise except for Unbound. No strength D limit. Let the cheese flow…
so to my understanding the only MC's i have access too are HQ's or Troops, which basically means Tervigon and named characters/HT.
* Week 1- 1000 point Combined Arms Detachment (CAD). Minimum 1 HQ and 2 Troops. Maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, and 1 Elite.
* Week 2- 1000 point CAD. Minimum 1 HQ and 2 Troops. Maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, and 2 Elites.
* Week 3- 1250 point CAD. Same minimum requirements but maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, and 3 Elites. Flyers and monstrous creatures are allowed.
* Week 4- 1250 point CAD. Same minimum requirements but maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elites, and 1 Fast Attack. Can also include an allied detachment.
* Week 5- 1500 point CAD. Same minimum requirements but maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elites,2 Fast Attack, and one Heavy support. Can also include an allied detachment. Additionally, Forgeworld models are allowed at the start of week 5 and until the end of the league.
* Week 6- 1500 point CAD. Same minimum requirements but maximum 3 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, and 3 heavy support. Can also include an allied detachment, and you can have up to 1 strength D weapon in your army now. This includes models, weapons, psychic powers, or abilities that can gain strength D.
* Week 7- 1850 point CAD, Formation Detachment (Forgeworld included), or “Decurion” style detachment. You can have up to 2 formations total unless you use a Decurion. If you use a Decurion you can have any number formations from your base codex to reach the requirements for the Decurion, but no additional formations outside of it. Lords of war are allowed. Also you can have up to 2 strength D weapons in your army now. This includes models, weapons, psychic powers, or abilities that can gain strength D.
* Week 8- 1850 point CAD, Formation Detachment, or “Decurion” style detachment. You can have any number of formations in your list now. Lords of war are allowed. Pretty much anything goes army construction wise except for Unbound. No strength D limit. Let the cheese flow…
so to my understanding the only MC's i have access too are HQ's or Troops, which basically means Tervigon and named characters/HT.
How many tervigons do you own? Until you get flyrants, taking 3 tervigons may be your best bet honestly. Probably our best non-Flyrant HQ too lol
You're up to 4 MCs right? Troop Tervigon with E. grubs/Crushing Claws and a Hive Tyrant with Hive Commander for Outflank can help a bit with vehicles. Give the Tyrant E.Grubs, and Tyrant Guard with Crushing Claws in case anything gets too close. With those restrictions Hive Guard are your best ranged choice in most situations, and since they don't require LoS you can keep them out of the line of fire.
I'm not sure if you can take all that in 1000pts...
Alaxandir wrote: Hi guys, newer player here been collecting for about a year. I'm working on a list for our 2nd week in my local escalation tournament and having trouble winning my games.
The restrictions last week were
Min 1 HQ 2 Troop; and max 3 HQ 6 Troop 1 Elites (1000 points)
(No flyers, no formations Tyranids are allowed 2 Monstrous Creatures)
And this week it goes up to
Min 1 HQ 2 Troop; and max 3 HQ 6 Troop 2 Elites (1000 points)
(No flyers, no formations, Tyranids are allowed 4 Monstrous Creatures)
I've been theory crafting a little bit on a way to win more games cause I'm competitive. I know this isn't the post your list place but I have a few questions very specific to nids.
1000 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster
: Combined Arms Detachment (44#, 996 pts)
2 Venomthrope Brood, ((C:T, pp. 47 & 98); Infantry; Lash Whips; Toxic Miasma; Instinctive Behaviour (Hunt); Poisoned (2+); Shrouded; Spore Cloud; Very Bulky)
20 Termagant Brood, ((C:T, pp. 42 & 96); Infantry; Fleshborer x20; Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk); Move Through Cover)
1 Tyrannocyte ((Shield of Baal - Leviathan); Monstrous Creature; Barbed Strangler x5; Deep Strike; Fearless; Drifting Death; Instinctive Fire; Transport Spore; Fear; Hammer of Wrath; Move Through Cover; Relentless; Smash; 20 model capacity)
3 Ripper Swarm Brood, ((C:T, pp. 53 & 97); Infantry; Fearless; Instinctive Behaviour (Feed); Swarms)
1 Hive Tyrant, ((C:T, pp. 40 & 94); Monstrous Creature (Character); Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Fear; Hammer of Wrath; Move Through Cover; Relentless; Smash; TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x1; Stranglethorn Cannon)
10 Termagant Brood, ((C:T, pp. 42 & 96); Infantry; Fleshborer x10; Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk); Move Through Cover)
1 Tyranid Prime, ((C:T, pp. 41 & 95); Infantry (Character); Scything Talons x1; Alpha Warrior; Independent Character; Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Very Bulky; Fleet; Furious Charge; The Miasma Cannon; Warlord; Adrenal Glands)
2 Tyranid Warrior Brood, ((C:T, pp. 41 & 96); Infantry; Scything Talons x2; Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Very Bulky; Deathspitter x2; Flesh Hooks)
1 Tyranid Warrior (Barbed Strangler; Scything Talons; Flesh Hooks)
3 Hive Guard Brood, ((C:T, pp. 46 & 98); Infantry; Impaler Cannon x3; Instinctive Behaviour (Hunt); Very Bulky)
1 Combined Arms Detachment,
So a few questions, I worked out statistically I've got the best chance of killing vehicles if I take the impaler cannons because of the ignores cover and no LOS required. My question is if I put the Tyranid Prime in the tyrannocyte with them can he confer his Assault Grenades to the unit incase I need to charge something after firing; (The challenge this week is to issue a challenge with your warlord for 3 bonus league points (Used at end for prizing); the prime is my named warlord since the first game).
Also, do you think the rippers are worth it at this points level for objective holding? They seem to work pretty well in my last few games (I'm 1W 2L for first week).
My main issue is I played against an Astra Militarum player who rolled a WL trait that let him give Ignores Cover to THREE of his units, which totally destroyed my army in one of those games, the other loss was a rules mistake, we let one of his outflanking models charge the turn it came in, and i accidentally let my Tervigon go at initiative 1 with crushing claws, didnt know mostrous ignored unwieldy.)
What do you guys suggest?
Kinda lame that you aren't allowed to use Flyers, in a codex where the key unit that keeps it all together is a Flyer, and that you are restricted to taking only a few MC's in an army that's only playable non-MC creatures are only there to support the MC's.
Is that the end of the restrictions? Is there other stuff in place, like restricting Jetbikes or soemthing? Otherwise it sounds like your TO is extremely biased and salty about Tyranids
Reformatted for ease of reading. You might want to double check your army builder, as there were a few oddities in the list (venomthropes with IB: Hunt instead of Lurk) and Tyrannocytes are technically a heavy support choice, thus illegal under the league rules you cited.
In any event, given the low point value I'd aim to overload on a particular target type, either go with a massive swarm with no monstrous creatures (using embedded Primes, Warriors, and Zoanthropes for synapse coverage) or go for an overload of T6 models (Tyrants, Tervigons, Tyrant Guard, Hive Guard, Haruspexes). Either way you'll have someone who will hard counter you, but you should be able to overwhelm more balanced lists who won't have enough guns of either extreme to deal with you.
So a few questions, I worked out statistically I've got the best chance of killing vehicles if I take the impaler cannons because of the ignores cover and no LOS required. My question is if I put the Tyranid Prime in the tyrannocyte with them can he confer his Assault Grenades to the unit incase I need to charge something after firing; (The challenge this week is to issue a challenge with your warlord for 3 bonus league points (Used at end for prizing); the prime is my named warlord since the first game).
Assault Grenades are sadly on a per model basis. Personally, I generally forgo Flesh Hooks and rely on Gargoyles for preserving initative. Once a target is locked in assault you don't suffer an initiative penalty when charging in with other units.
Alaxandir wrote: Also, do you think the rippers are worth it at this points level for objective holding? They seem to work pretty well in my last few games (I'm 1W 2L for first week).
Depends heavily on the mission (better in Eternal War missions, slightly worse in Maelstrom), but overall they should be fine.
Zach wrote: I didnt see any discussion on the Hive Vanguard formation, any feelings on the matter?
A turn 1 deep strike of 30 gargoyles (or 2 if you doubled the formation) and the ability to freely detach from assault sounds interesting.
I think the reason the Hive Vanguard has been overlooked is that it's not many rules for high points. All it really does is make your gargoyles have a fancy redeploy, the problem is that they must be near your tyrant, and you're paying for warriors. It's a fun way to add a Flyrant to a list without an extra CAD (or Hive Fleet Detachment) but I don't think it brings that much to the table. Deep striking gargoyles can't charge and become template fodder, plus your gargoyles can be shot to pieces before they make assault unless you add a lot of points to their defense/numbers. Just in general not worth it to me.
Zach wrote: I didnt see any discussion on the Hive Vanguard formation, any feelings on the matter?
A turn 1 deep strike of 30 gargoyles (or 2 if you doubled the formation) and the ability to freely detach from assault sounds interesting.
It has some potential I think, but it has two things holding it back a bit.
1): It has some rather stiff competition with the Skytyrant and Skyblight formations, both of which require a Tyrant + Gargoyles and offer game changing benefits (Skyblight basically turns Gargoyles into respawning troops, Skytyrant makes melee Tyrant builds viable).
2): It isn't really a formation that can stand alone, it really needs the rest of the list to be built around it to get the most out of it.
I think if I were to run the formation, I think I would equip the Warriors for melee combat and load them into a Tyrannocyte. Then, have the Gargoyles follow the Tyrant until the Warriors arrive and slingshot them to the Warriors, putting three threats safely in the backfield. Alternatively perhaps use Hive Commander and outflank the Warriors instead, though that isn't quite as reliable.
Flyrants gained Deep Strike and combined with Swooping mode means null deployment is a go.
Also Neurothropes might be an exceptionally good addition, since they no longer have to roll to hit.
wat
Flyrants were always able to deepstrike. Flyrants lost toe-in-ruin cover saves. This one is a HUGE NERF.
Hive Crones can no longer jink and then vector strike. I'm shelfing mine.
No more alpha strike protection with Venomthrope in Bastion/Bunker. HUGE NERF.
Sporefield can no longer be used for alpha strike protection, unless you fancy walking them back on the table if you manage to 4+ them back to life.
Skyblight formation now has 3 dead units (Harpies and the Hive Crone) plus the Gargoyles can't deepstrike back to the table unless the original unit was in deepstrike reserve to begin with.
Broodlords have no ability to use shooting attacks, not even the auto-hitting ones, because BS0. Nothing new here.
I think it's worth pointing out here that the 'toe in cover nerf' regarding flying monsters is clearly designed to represent when they are swooping they are high above said area terrain. They still benefit from it on the ground (of course, they probably won't be if you can help it). This is how my group has always played it as in the logic of what the game represents it made the most sense to us.
I don't think Nids have been completely ruined but the faq certainly did us no favors... Thank god it's a rough draft so I have a few days to play without it lol. Id say the only buff we actually got was haywire vs VSG (which to me means crones stay in the list) while the auto hitting powers just make mad units mediocre, still not useable.
whirlwindstruggle wrote: I think it's worth pointing out here that the 'toe in cover nerf' regarding flying monsters is clearly designed to represent when they are swooping they are high above said area terrain. They still benefit from it on the ground (of course, they probably won't be if you can help it).
No.
A: The 25% rule applies in all types of terrain if the target is a Flyer, Super-heavy Vehicle, Flying Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature.
jifel wrote: Id say the only buff we actually got was haywire vs VSG (which to me means crones stay in the list) while the auto hitting powers just make mad units mediocre, still not useable.
Also Harridans can now vector strike and still fire both Biocannons and the Hierophant can actually use its upgrade guns without giving up S10 shots.
jifel wrote: Id say the only buff we actually got was haywire vs VSG (which to me means crones stay in the list) while the auto hitting powers just make mad units mediocre, still not useable.
Also Harridans can now vector strike and still fire both Biocannons and the Hierophant can actually use its upgrade guns without giving up S10 shots.
Harridans could always fire all of their weapons (or at least the way we've been playing it) so that didnt matter much to me. And none of our GMCs are remotely worth it in an ITC game sadly, so I will stick to flyrants, I just have to be more careful with terrain now.
N.I.B. wrote:Flyrants were always able to deepstrike. Flyrants lost toe-in-ruin cover saves. This one is a HUGE NERF.
Hive Crones can no longer jink and then vector strike. I'm shelfing mine.
No more alpha strike protection with Venomthrope in Bastion/Bunker. HUGE NERF.
Sporefield can no longer be used for alpha strike protection, unless you fancy walking them back on the table if you manage to 4+ them back to life.
Skyblight formation now has 3 dead units (Harpies and the Hive Crone) plus the Gargoyles can't deepstrike back to the table unless the original unit was in deepstrike reserve to begin with.
Broodlords have no ability to use shooting attacks, not even the auto-hitting ones, because BS0. Nothing new here.
There are more, but I'm too depressed to type.
Flyrants being able to deepstrike was very open to interpretation to be honest. I feel like most people would have not minded, but I still felt like it would've been pushing my luck a bit to try.
The loss of cover saves on FMCs is huge I agree, but it does also look somewhat like this was a typo, as the question is worded "Swooping FMCs" and the answer is not. Hopefully this gets rectified in the next version.
With Sporefield and/or Skyblight, I've always played it that the units enter the way they came onto the battlefield! I think Outflanking even has an exception to say that you can only do it from reserves and not ongoing or something too, so only deepstrike works. But yeah, sporefield is still alpha protection - if you don't get tabled they do their job, respawning is only a bonus, so I don't see that as a huge issue.
I'm hopeful that when it comes round to doing books, the Patriarch's BS gets addressed, but you're right there, I didn't clock that either.
In any case, whilst you're right on many counts I think things aren't quite as bad as you make out. It's also important to remember that whilst we got some nerfs, other factions ate far worse (Deldar and Imperium) - so we have fallen far less than they have. We're also unaffected by some big things like the grenade nerf.
whirlwindstruggle wrote: I think it's worth pointing out here that the 'toe in cover nerf' regarding flying monsters is clearly designed to represent when they are swooping they are high above said area terrain. They still benefit from it on the ground (of course, they probably won't be if you can help it).
No.
A: The 25% rule applies in all types of terrain if the target is a Flyer, Super-heavy Vehicle, Flying Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature.
whirlwindstruggle wrote: I think it's worth pointing out here that the 'toe in cover nerf' regarding flying monsters is clearly designed to represent when they are swooping they are high above said area terrain. They still benefit from it on the ground (of course, they probably won't be if you can help it).
No.
A: The 25% rule applies in all types of terrain if the target is a Flyer, Super-heavy Vehicle, Flying Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature.
A FMC is still an FMC even when not Swooping.
Obviously means when it's in swooping mode.
thats reading a bit far into it mate... I think RAW, that will never fly
Q: Do Flyers, Super-heavy vehicles, Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures gain cover while standing on the ‘base’ of a terrain piece, e.g. ruins or dense thickets, or do they need to be at least 25% obscured by the scenery for cover to apply?
A: The 25% rule applies in all types of terrain if the target is a Flyer, Super-heavy Vehicle, Flying Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature. All other targets count as being in cover if they are in or on the terrain’s base, even if not 25% obsured.
So leave it to GW to contradict themselves once again. The Question refers to a swooping FMC. The answer just refers to a FMC.
I believe the intent is that the FMC has to be swooping as per the question, not the answer.
Q: Do Flyers, Super-heavy vehicles, Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures gain cover while standing on the ‘base’ of a terrain piece, e.g. ruins or dense thickets, or do they need to be at least 25% obscured by the scenery for cover to apply?
A: The 25% rule applies in all types of terrain if the target is a Flyer, Super-heavy Vehicle, Flying Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature. All other targets count as being in cover if they are in or on the terrain’s base, even if not 25% obsured.
So leave it to GW to contradict themselves once again. The Question refers to a swooping FMC. The answer just refers to a FMC.
I believe the intent is that the FMC has to be swooping as per the question, not the answer.
At least they're trying! But I'm really hoping that this is one of those questions that gets changed in the final draft to make it more clear. I'd be much happier if my FMCs got cover when they were on the ground (when it actually makes sense)
Q: Do Flyers, Super-heavy vehicles, Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures gain cover while standing on the ‘base’ of a terrain piece, e.g. ruins or dense thickets, or do they need to be at least 25% obscured by the scenery for cover to apply?
A: The 25% rule applies in all types of terrain if the target is a Flyer, Super-heavy Vehicle, Flying Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature. All other targets count as being in cover if they are in or on the terrain’s base, even if not 25% obsured.
So leave it to GW to contradict themselves once again. The Question refers to a swooping FMC. The answer just refers to a FMC.
I believe the intent is that the FMC has to be swooping as per the question, not the answer.
At least they're trying! But I'm really hoping that this is one of those questions that gets changed in the final draft to make it more clear. I'd be much happier if my FMCs got cover when they were on the ground (when it actually makes sense)
Well, I as well as others posted in their comments questions last week asking them to clarify this FAQ, so fingers crossed.
I think that they were referring to swooping FMC as well. Either way, though, it was only on the first turn that our FMC were benefitting from shrouded protection on the ground for the most part. As is, RIP Malanthrope in a box. I'm just waiting for Broodkin to be able to be fielded en masse for some good old fashioned stealer shock.
With Nids only, my dream is for a giant carnifex brood to be viable again....CMON new codex! Papa needs a pair of crushing claws!
Do you guys have some general tactica for playing nids? I've watched tons of videos and read a lot of forums.. I just seem to lose almost all of my games.
In our local tourney I'm 1W 6L; some of you here may remeber I posted the rules on (pg 362 i believe)..
Anyway we're very restricted and I'm bringing what you guys had suggested I just think I'm playing wrong.. I played against IG today (AM.. whatever) and he had mostly infantry with two heavy weapon teams and a trio of chimeras.
I brought
1000 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster
1 Lictor Brood
3 Pyrovore Brood
3 Ripper Swarm Brood - Deep Strike
30 Termagant Brood
2 Tervigon - Cluster Spines; Electroshock Grubs
1 Tyranid Prime - Bone Sword
1 Tyrannocyte - Barbed Stranglers
Neither of us saw eachothers lists before we met for the game, just got lucky with the pyrovores I guess. But my goal was to hide my stuff until my pod came in, he deployed in one corner and i deployed out of LOS in the other.
I got annihilated by his veterans with plasma and his autocannons/missiles.. and he is able to give his units Ignore Cover.. How can I play to deal with this?
The missions we rolled was Purge the alien, which really sucked for my list.. My pyrovore pod came in and really wrecked one of his units, and the pod did okay damage, but I lost with 1 kill point to his 7. I tried to walk the prime up the board with the gants and two tervigons, but he just castled up and gunned me down before I get within 12".
At this point maybe we should write our own competitive fancodex and spread it to the point that it replaces the official one. It would be better than whatever GW will write anyway.
Alaxandir wrote: Do you guys have some general tactica for playing nids? I've watched tons of videos and read a lot of forums.. I just seem to lose almost all of my games.
In our local tourney I'm 1W 6L; some of you here may remeber I posted the rules on (pg 362 i believe)..
Anyway we're very restricted and I'm bringing what you guys had suggested I just think I'm playing wrong.. I played against IG today (AM.. whatever) and he had mostly infantry with two heavy weapon teams and a trio of chimeras.
I brought
1000 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster
1 Lictor Brood
3 Pyrovore Brood
3 Ripper Swarm Brood - Deep Strike
30 Termagant Brood
2 Tervigon - Cluster Spines; Electroshock Grubs
1 Tyranid Prime - Bone Sword
1 Tyrannocyte - Barbed Stranglers
Neither of us saw eachothers lists before we met for the game, just got lucky with the pyrovores I guess. But my goal was to hide my stuff until my pod came in, he deployed in one corner and i deployed out of LOS in the other.
I got annihilated by his veterans with plasma and his autocannons/missiles.. and he is able to give his units Ignore Cover.. How can I play to deal with this?
The missions we rolled was Purge the alien, which really sucked for my list.. My pyrovore pod came in and really wrecked one of his units, and the pod did okay damage, but I lost with 1 kill point to his 7. I tried to walk the prime up the board with the gants and two tervigons, but he just castled up and gunned me down before I get within 12".
Try running something like this (if you have the models):
Advance the entire army together, using the Gants to screen out your TMC's. Run your Tyrants until they are within range to shoot. Tyrants will specialize in killing infantry and light tanks. Hive Guards will take care of medium tanks. Keep everyone within Malanthrope range if possible (until you assault).
I just seem to lose almost all of my games. In our local tourney I'm 1W 6L; some of you here may remeber I posted the rules on (pg 362 i believe)..
Don't get dispirited, Tyranids are a hard army to master and the added restrictions on you only compound the issue. If nothing else, take heart in that each loss is nothing more than a learning experience and eventually you will adapt and overcome.
Alaxandir wrote: Do you guys have some general tactica for playing nids? I've watched tons of videos and read a lot of forums..
The key to Tyranids is threat saturation and threat overload, basically bringing more of a given threat type than the opponent is expected to have counters for and presenting those threats all at the same time. The Pentyrant build (5x flying Hive Tyrants with minimum troops - generally rippers or myeloid spores) for instance works in part by overloading enemy anti-air weaponry with more targets than they can conceivably deal with before being neutralized while also making non-AA weapons more or less useless since there is very little for them to target. In addition, everything in the list shares the same general speed, making it harder to prioritize certain threats over others since everything is arriving at more or less the same time.
If we look at your list with the above in mind, we have three general target types with relatively little redundancy/overlap and two different speeds (deepstriking threats and footsloggers). This makes target priority fairly straightforward for your opponent, basically focus on the closest threat and apply the right gun to each applicable target type.
Now as a strictly hypothetical, consider the following:
---------------------------
HQ: Tyranid Prime
HQ: Tyranid Prime
Not a perfect list by any means, but it has reasonable threat saturation through redundancy and has enough bodies to hopefully overload enemy anti-infantry weapons. Everything moves at the same general speed and there is enough redundancy that you aren't relying on any single unit to survive. The Hive Guard and Biovores admittedly are vulnerable to anti-tank weaponry so threat overload isn't perfect, but this is mitigated somewhat with their ability to fire indirectly.
Edit: Jy2's suggested list also has good saturation, but in reverse (almost everything is T6, thus overwhelming anti-monster fire).
Anyway, are there any restrictions on the number of monsters allowed next week? I remember flying monsters are allowed which should help give you a much needed boost. If possible, I would suggest loading the Tervigons into Tyrannocytes or take advantage of Hive Commander to get them up the field quickly.
I think in the next codex, Tyranids need something to add diversity to the lists that can be fielded, rather than 3x flyrants and 3x mawlocs etc etc.
A few changes I would be totally okay with if the design team implemented:
Devourers - Bring back the living ammo rule (re-roll to wound) and drop the strength by 1 on both versions. Keeps the rounds as what they're intended for - anti infantry, and makes Flyrants with dual Brainleeches less ubiquitous.
Genestealers - the cult is a good step in the right direction. A formation that would allow them to assault the turn they entered play from reserve would make them great again IMO.
MCs - Boost the WS stats, drop the points in line with other codex MCs (50 pts for a tomb spyder...c'mon).
Warriors and other T4 synapse - Something needs to be done. T5 and 2 Wounds apiece for the same points, or add a rule that says "If a synapse creature would suffer instant death, it takes D3 wounds instead".
Just a few ideas. I'd like to see a new codex this year but nothing rumor-wise is pointing in that direction.
Warriors are still relatively fragile even ignoring instant death. T4 4+ for 10 points/wound isn't the most durable thing, and T5 4+ for 15 points/wound isn't that much better.
Alaxandir wrote: Do you guys have some general tactica for playing nids? I've watched tons of videos and read a lot of forums.. I just seem to lose almost all of my games.
In our local tourney I'm 1W 6L; some of you here may remeber I posted the rules on (pg 362 i believe)..
Anyway we're very restricted and I'm bringing what you guys had suggested I just think I'm playing wrong.. I played against IG today (AM.. whatever) and he had mostly infantry with two heavy weapon teams and a trio of chimeras.
I brought
Spoiler:
1000 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster
1 Lictor Brood
3 Pyrovore Brood
3 Ripper Swarm Brood - Deep Strike
30 Termagant Brood
2 Tervigon - Cluster Spines; Electroshock Grubs
1 Tyranid Prime - Bone Sword
1 Tyrannocyte - Barbed Stranglers
Neither of us saw eachothers lists before we met for the game, just got lucky with the pyrovores I guess. But my goal was to hide my stuff until my pod came in, he deployed in one corner and i deployed out of LOS in the other.
I got annihilated by his veterans with plasma and his autocannons/missiles.. and he is able to give his units Ignore Cover.. How can I play to deal with this?
The missions we rolled was Purge the alien, which really sucked for my list.. My pyrovore pod came in and really wrecked one of his units, and the pod did okay damage, but I lost with 1 kill point to his 7. I tried to walk the prime up the board with the gants and two tervigons, but he just castled up and gunned me down before I get within 12".
For the record, you need a group of 30 Termagants for each Tervigon to field it as a troop choice. You're up to 1 HQ and 4 MCs correct? Or have they went up again?
Perhaps something like-
HQ- Hive Tyrant(preferably with a long ranged weapon like a Stranglethorn to reach out and touch someone)
1 Tyrant Guard
30 Gants
Tervigon(perhaps equip one with a miasma cannon to deal with far range threats, or double up on templates to take on infantry that gets too close depending on your points)
30 Gants
Tervigon
Then pad out with Hive Guard/whatever.
I really appreciate all your help guys. I can't use fw till week 5… so no malanthrope. The issue I had with my venoms last few games is there are a lot of ignore cover weapons in our tournament. AM player w ignore cover orders just destroys me. On guy plays BA with crap tons of flamers and pods, another guy plays salamanders with multiple razorbacks..
Our meta is
3 nids players
2 eldar
1 csm 1 daemons
5 SM (BA, Salamanders, and a DA… and others idk)
1 GK 1 Skitari/CM And 1 AM.
I just have had my thropes get flamed or ignore covered like first turn every time. Should I be deploying them dead center of the army?
Alaxandir wrote: Do you guys have some general tactica for playing nids? I've watched tons of videos and read a lot of forums.. I just seem to lose almost all of my games.
In our local tourney I'm 1W 6L; some of you here may remeber I posted the rules on (pg 362 i believe)..
Anyway we're very restricted and I'm bringing what you guys had suggested I just think I'm playing wrong.. I played against IG today (AM.. whatever) and he had mostly infantry with two heavy weapon teams and a trio of chimeras.
I brought
Spoiler:
1000 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster
1 Lictor Brood
3 Pyrovore Brood
3 Ripper Swarm Brood - Deep Strike
30 Termagant Brood
2 Tervigon - Cluster Spines; Electroshock Grubs
1 Tyranid Prime - Bone Sword
1 Tyrannocyte - Barbed Stranglers
Neither of us saw eachothers lists before we met for the game, just got lucky with the pyrovores I guess. But my goal was to hide my stuff until my pod came in, he deployed in one corner and i deployed out of LOS in the other.
I got annihilated by his veterans with plasma and his autocannons/missiles.. and he is able to give his units Ignore Cover.. How can I play to deal with this?
The missions we rolled was Purge the alien, which really sucked for my list.. My pyrovore pod came in and really wrecked one of his units, and the pod did okay damage, but I lost with 1 kill point to his 7. I tried to walk the prime up the board with the gants and two tervigons, but he just castled up and gunned me down before I get within 12".
For the record, you need a group of 30 Termagants for each Tervigon to field it as a troop choice. You're up to 1 HQ and 4 MCs correct? Or have they went up again?
Perhaps something like-
HQ- Hive Tyrant(preferably with a long ranged weapon like a Stranglethorn to reach out and touch someone)
1 Tyrant Guard
30 Gants
Tervigon(perhaps equip one with a miasma cannon to deal with far range threats, or double up on templates to take on infantry that gets too close depending on your points)
30 Gants
Tervigon
Then pad out with Hive Guard/whatever.
(sorry double post. I'm on my phone)
There are no restrictions on how many MC I get now, flyers allowed. But I only can have 2HQ and 6 Troops 3 Elite
Alaxandir wrote: I really appreciate all your help guys. I can't use fw till week 5… so no malanthrope. The issue I had with my venoms last few games is there are a lot of ignore cover weapons in our tournament. AM player w ignore cover orders just destroys me. On guy plays BA with crap tons of flamers and pods, another guy plays salamanders with multiple razorbacks..
Spoiler:
Our meta is
3 nids players
2 eldar
1 csm 1 daemons
5 SM (BA, Salamanders, and a DA… and others idk)
1 GK 1 Skitari/CM And 1 AM.
I just have had my thropes get flamed or ignore covered like first turn every time. Should I be deploying them dead center of the army?
Alaxandir wrote: Do you guys have some general tactica for playing nids? I've watched tons of videos and read a lot of forums.. I just seem to lose almost all of my games.
In our local tourney I'm 1W 6L; some of you here may remeber I posted the rules on (pg 362 i believe)..
Anyway we're very restricted and I'm bringing what you guys had suggested I just think I'm playing wrong.. I played against IG today (AM.. whatever) and he had mostly infantry with two heavy weapon teams and a trio of chimeras.
I brought
Spoiler:
1000 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster
1 Lictor Brood
3 Pyrovore Brood
3 Ripper Swarm Brood - Deep Strike
30 Termagant Brood
2 Tervigon - Cluster Spines; Electroshock Grubs
1 Tyranid Prime - Bone Sword
1 Tyrannocyte - Barbed Stranglers
Neither of us saw eachothers lists before we met for the game, just got lucky with the pyrovores I guess. But my goal was to hide my stuff until my pod came in, he deployed in one corner and i deployed out of LOS in the other.
I got annihilated by his veterans with plasma and his autocannons/missiles.. and he is able to give his units Ignore Cover.. How can I play to deal with this?
The missions we rolled was Purge the alien, which really sucked for my list.. My pyrovore pod came in and really wrecked one of his units, and the pod did okay damage, but I lost with 1 kill point to his 7. I tried to walk the prime up the board with the gants and two tervigons, but he just castled up and gunned me down before I get within 12".
For the record, you need a group of 30 Termagants for each Tervigon to field it as a troop choice. You're up to 1 HQ and 4 MCs correct? Or have they went up again?
Perhaps something like-
HQ- Hive Tyrant(preferably with a long ranged weapon like a Stranglethorn to reach out and touch someone)
1 Tyrant Guard
30 Gants
Tervigon(perhaps equip one with a miasma cannon to deal with far range threats, or double up on templates to take on infantry that gets too close depending on your points)
30 Gants
Tervigon
Then pad out with Hive Guard/whatever.
(sorry double post. I'm on my phone)
There are no restrictions on how many MC I get now, flyers allowed. But I only can have 2HQ and 6 Troops 3 Elite
Then don't bother with the tyrant guard, and put wings on that Tyrant! He'll definitely be the heavy hitter of your list after that(Dual Devourers x2 and Electroshock Grubs), but he'll also likely draw lots of fire.
If it's things like flamers and templates killing the thropes, then deploy him in the middle of a big brood of gaunts/terrain that will block drop pods so they can't get close enough to him to use them. There's a bit of an art to using thropes, but you do want to basically hide them as best you can.
So I was looking on the Forge World website regarding the open day and aside from getting down about no new Ork despite being passed in the rerelease of IA, I noticed that Anphelion Project was no longer for sale.
Frozocrone wrote: So I was looking on the Forge World website regarding the open day and aside from getting down about no new Ork despite being passed in the rerelease of IA, I noticed that Anphelion Project was no longer for sale.
Out of stock or new rules?
Man I really hope it is new rules...like dropping their gargs by 200 pts, giving them D in some regard haha, maybe even I 4!!!!
A 500 point hierophant would basically be right in line with the Tau'nar. Hierodules should probably be in the neighborhood of 350 for the scythed and 400 for the barbed.
I would like to see Scythed at 300, Barbie at 350 and the Hierophant at 600 if you use the WK and the Tau'nar as baseline comparisons. Harridan should be around 500 IMO.
I doubt that we would be getting a new Imperial Armor so soon. They updated it not that long ago. I agree though, our gargantuans need a price reduction though. Hierodules should be priced around Wraith Knight levels.
So week 3… flyers are in. I played two games yesterday with
2 flyrants dakka
1 tervigon Troops
30 gants 10dev
3 hiveguard stock gun
3 zoans
2 vemonthrope
I pulverized my opponents, it wasn't pretty.
I won both games on turn 3. My opponents conceded.
One guy had a land raider, I rolled the warlord trait which gives infiltrate, I used it on my zoans to put them in 18" of the LR and out of Los. Knocked two hull points off it turn one, turn two it was dead.
Nasty games. I almost felt like I cheesed.. But tbf the guy with LR also had skyfire launches on two tav squads and a .. Stormtalon? Whatever that new flyer is with twin linked assault cannons and missiles.. It felt good to win. But that was viscious. I don't wanna tone it down though. I feel like it was a pretty fair list.
Flyrants are what makes Tyranids competitive. Playing without then is like playing with an intentional handicap. They are definitely the best unit in the current codex and the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. You see a huge difference in performance when running then as opposed to not running them.
Ok, need some help, Im thinking of running Nids+GSC for a escalation League.
Its is 800pts (4-5games) then 1440 pts (4-5 games) have to keep the 800pts for the escalation games, and you can upgrade to more costly upgrades, but never dowgrade.
The problem is I want to run GSC at 1400pts, them being 600pts I have 800pts of Nids.
Problem 2, at 800pts its 1 CAD or Core Formation with 0 Fliers.
Any ideas what to bring in the 800pts list? I can bring 2 Tyrants and not put wings on them to play 60pts down for now.
Im having a hard time thinking what to bring haha.
Usually not in comparison to Flyrants. There are quite a few unit reviews in the first post by Tyranid players, they can give you some good perspective on the power levels of many units.
Usually not in comparison to Flyrants. There are quite a few unit reviews in the first post by Tyranid players, they can give you some good perspective on the power levels of many units.
The reason I asked is cause the first post skipped him
I'll get to the review of Swarmy a little later but first of all, a little good news and a little bad news.
First all, the GW Tyranid FAQ draft is out.
Ok, the good news....
Broodlord can use Psychic Shriek even though he is BS0. As long as the psychic shooting attack does not require you to roll to hit, BS0 models can still use.
Now the bad....
Genestealer cults are only Allies of Convenience to Tyranids. Sorry, but no Invisibility to Tyranid allies.
So for two months GW led Tyranid players to believe they could BB with Genestealer Cult, as per the wording in the White Dwarf would suggest. People bought the crap (and the models). Now we're suddenly degraded to Allies of Convenience, can't cast Invisibility on Tyranid units (nerf) can't join GSC characters to Tyranid units (big nerf) and GSC can't infiltrate close to Tyranids as they counts as enemy models (HUGE nerf).
If I were trying to intentionally piss off and troll my customers, I could not do a better job than GW does with Tyranid players.
I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?
adamsouza wrote: I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?
The question is not whether they eat the Cult, but when. Everything ends up consumed, even the Tyranids that landed on the planet. It's just whether or not the Cult assists the Nids.
adamsouza wrote: I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?
After a world is conquered, Tyranids will consume themselves and splinter fleets are known to attack each other to ascertain dominance, yet they are still considered Battle Brothers with themselves. The question is not whether the cult will be consumed, but whether the cult will do everything in its power to ensure that the hive fleet conquers the planet. The answer is that they will.
Compare that to Space Wolves interactions with various factions in the imperium (including Dark Angels, Grey Knights, and Sisters of Battle) to whom the Space Wolves are openly hostile towards, and yet are still Battle Brothers rather than Allies of Convenience.
The Swarmlord is arguably the single most deadly close-combat unit in the Tyranid codex. However, not only is he a close-combat stud, but he is a force-multiplier unit (FMU) as well. He serves to make the Tyranid army better with his buffs. So what makes the Swarmlord stand out?
1. He buffs the Tyranid army with an 18" Synapse that could extend to 24" with the Dominion psychic power. That is more than any other unit in the codex.
2. He is the best psyker in the army currently. He makes for a good psychic battery and has a better chance to get certain psychic powers than any other unit in the codex.
3. His Alien Cunning allows the army to modify Reserve rolls. Swarmlord is worth considering if you are planning to run a null-deployment or reserve-heavy Tyranid army.
4. His Swarm Leader ability allows him to buff another Tyranid unit with either Furious Charge, Monster Hunter or Preferred Enemy.
5. He is very dangerous in Assault, with attacks that cause Instant Death. He is also more resilient in CC than any other Tyranid unit due mainly to 2 factors. First is that he is the only Tyranid unit with a 4++ Invulnerable save in CC. Second is his high Weapon Skill (WS9). That means WS4 MEQ's with power fists/thunderhammers/etc. are hitting him on 5's instead of 4's. It would be better for most non-elite Assault units to steer clear of the Swarmlord.
As good as the Swarmlord is in Assault, however, he does have certain limitations that prevent him from being an All-star in the army like the flyrant is. So what are Swarmlord's weaknesses?
1. He is slow. It is almost necessary to get him a delivery system like the Tyrannocyte drop pod if you really want to get him into assault.
2. Lack of any non-psychic shooting whatsoever means that he can only rely on Assault for offense. In this age of flyers and deathstars, you cannot always rely on Assault alone. Against certain armies, he is basically a cheerleader instead of the main event.
3. Resiliency. While Swarmlord is more resilient than a standard Tyrant, a Toughness 6 unit with 5 Wounds and only a 3+ save is actually not very resilient at all. He won't survive the shooting of the more shooty armies, especially if he has to huff it across the table to reach them. Giving him Tyrant Guard bodyguards or a Tyrannocyte can greatly increase his resiliency. However, they also significantly increase his cost as well.
4. No more Biomancy powers. Swarmlord used to be much feared back when he could take Biomancy psychic powers. Those powers could potentially offset his lack of resiliency or increase his combat potential. As good as the Tyranid powers are, however, they are used more to help the army rather than to help the psyker himself. What Swarmlord really needs are psychic powers that can be used to help himself.
5. Lack of grenades for an Assault unit. The lack of assault grenades means that he is vulnerable to certain assault units standing in terrain. His one advantage is his high Initiative, but if he is striking at the same time as Powerfists and Thunderhammers, then he really doesn't have that advantage. Worse yet, he might even die before he can even strike against certain units, especially units with Force weapons.
The Swarmlord is still a very dangerous unit and an excellent force-multiplier for the army. In that regards, he can still add value to the Tyranid army depending on the build. However, his weaknesses are harsh, especially in an edition that is more about shooting and mobility, both of which the Swarmlord lacks. It is especially because of those weaknesses why you won't see him in the most competitive Tyranid armies.
adamsouza wrote: I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?
So Saturday I'm playing in my first tournament (And indeed, my second game since November) with a list Ive never tried, and only using it because Im bored. Im totally out of touch with Warhammer so Ive got no clue. I DO know this would have been suboptimal 7 months ago, so I doubt the situation has gotten better for bugs.
4 Flyrants, malanthrope, neural node with mucolids. So Flyrants do what they always do, and the neural node moves up (probably always centered) hugging cover, relying on 2+ cover saves and 3+ invuls (5+ for the maleceptor since we cant have nice things) to be a somewhat dense target to handle in addition to the flying Tyrants.
Using the Neurothropes (Who dont have to roll to hit any more) to fuel warp charge batteries, Im not sure if I should default to using 4 or 5 dice to manifest Warp Lance when I am rerolling 1's, any thoughts on that?
jy2 wrote: The Swarmlord: (by jy2)
3. His Alien Cunning allows the army to modify Reserve rolls. Swarmlord is worth considering if you are planning to run a null-deployment or reserve-heavy Tyranid army.
Tyranids can have a null deployment list without auto lose? What am I missing. Sorry if its been covered but this thread is an ungodly size for a new comer to it.
jy2 wrote: The Swarmlord: (by jy2)
3. His Alien Cunning allows the army to modify Reserve rolls. Swarmlord is worth considering if you are planning to run a null-deployment or reserve-heavy Tyranid army.
Tyranids can have a null deployment list without auto lose? What am I missing. Sorry if its been covered but this thread is an ungodly size for a new comer to it.
No. There is no Tyranid reserve unit that can come in turn 1.
What he is referring to is a reserve-heavy Tyranid force.
The FAQ regarding how the Genestealer cult allies might be a mistake, baring a full codex with detailed ally information. Taken to its logical conclusion, if an army that shares its ally matrix with another faction is only a convenient ally with the faction it shares its place on the matrix with, by extension all Imperial armies would be allies of convenience with each other as they all share the same spot on the ally matrix while each is also its own faction. Similarly, supplement armies that state they follow the same ally rules as their parent codex would only be allies of convenience with their parent codex.
adamsouza wrote: I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?
The Warzone Valdore book has a section in the back of the book detailing the phases of Tyranid invasion and includes the role of the Hybrid forces.
Excerpts from the relevant sections.
Discovery: As the infiltrator beasts prosper upon the target world, so their numbers multiply. Genestealers impregnate their prey-creatures with alien taint on a genetic level, forcing their victims to spawn horrific offspring that are nonetheless nurtured as beloved children away from the sight of mortal authorities. As such hidden communities flourish, so does their collective psychic spoor grow stronger, presumably attracting the notice of the ever-hungry Hive Mind as it draws close. A flourishing hybrid community of this kind is a sure indication of rich feeding grounds. In some cases, those in the thrall of the Genestealers may seek to infiltrate the world's ruling classes, aiming to prepare it for the hive fleet's arrival by weakening defenses or moral resolve.
Attack: [...] It is during these primary invasions that any infested local communities make their move, acting entirely under the control of the Hive Mind and seeking to disrupt what little resistance the defenders are able to mount from within.
Consumption: As the Tyranid digestion pools swell, the hive ships cluster closer and closer to the planet's surface.[...] At this point, any infested natives the vanguard organisms have cultivated upon the world add their biomass to the harvest. The minds of these creatures are, by this point, entirely subsumed to the Hive Mind's gestalt will, and they march blank-faced into the depths of the digestion pools, along with all the other Tyranids to be rendered down into nutrients.
Emphasis added by me. I suspect the reason for the removal of battle brother status (assuming it wasn't a mistake) will probably have to do with the final book rather than the current formation. Alternatively, maybe the rumored 8th edition changes how Allies of Convenience work so the ally level feels more appropriate. Just making it so allies of Convenience were viewed as friendly models would be enough, hard to infiltrate both the cult and Genestealers from the Tyranid codex when they can't be within 18'' of each other...
Frozocrone wrote: On a Tyranid note, I am very happy about not buying this even when they pushed hard for it when I was in store.
The Overkill game by itself is actually quite fun and surprisingly strategic, I'd say it is worth it even without the rules for 40k. I've been bringing it to our local game shop to play and we've almost finished the campaign (currently on mission 8 out of 9). It is very easy to learn the basics but it has quite a bit of depth in how you deploy your forces and when to use certain "gambits" over deploying the units. The Deathwatch in turn have to choose their approach carefully as they usually have an objective that needs to be fulfilled and they have to insure they are able to attack each turn or they will find themselves buried under a swarm of angry cultists. It is also hard to make one squad to rule them all, as the Deathwatch player can't bring the same models in the consecutive round, so if they over-specialize for one mission it will generally hurt them in the next one.
HQ Hive Tyrant 1 - Electroshock Grubs, Powers of the Hive Mind, Psyker (Mastery Level 2), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings
Hive Tyrant 2 - Electroshock Grubs, Powers of the Hive Mind, Psyker (Mastery Level 2), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings
Troops Ripper Swarm Brood 1- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 2- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 3- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 4- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 5- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 6- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Heavy Support Sporocyst 1- 5x Deathspitters
Sporocyst 2- 5x Deathspitters
Tyrannocyte - 5x Venom Cannon
Flyrants do their thing.
Rippers grab or contest objectives.
Tyrannocyte and Sporocyst scream "SHOOT AT ME" as loud as possible while pooping out as many Mucolids and Spore Mines as possible.
Are you not going to drop in anything along with your Tyrannocyte? A Carnifex with 2x Brainleech Devourers would be proper scary. Your Tyrannocyte doesn't take up a FOC slot if you need the extra Heavy Support.
I just ran out of points at the 1000 point mark. Plus I don't actually have a Carnifex with twin linke devourers. My collection of models is mostly 3rd/4th edition.
Picked up 2 of the new Carnifex models, but they were equipped with Venom Cannons. I plan on converting them to Twin Linked Devourers, just been fiddlling with the Trannocytes/Sporocycts instead.
Strat_N8 wrote: The FAQ regarding how the Genestealer cult allies might be a mistake, baring a full codex with detailed ally information. Taken to its logical conclusion, if an army that shares its ally matrix with another faction is only a convenient ally with the faction it shares its place on the matrix with, by extension all Imperial armies would be allies of convenience with each other as they all share the same spot on the ally matrix while each is also its own faction. Similarly, supplement armies that state they follow the same ally rules as their parent codex would only be allies of convenience with their parent codex.
Emphasis added by me. I suspect the reason for the removal of battle brother status (assuming it wasn't a mistake) will probably have to do with the final book rather than the current formation. Alternatively, maybe the rumored 8th edition changes how Allies of Convenience work so the ally level feels more appropriate. Just making it so allies of Convenience were viewed as friendly models would be enough, hard to infiltrate both the cult and Genestealers from the Tyranid codex when they can't be within 18'' of each other...
These are some really good points that has me hopeful that maybe, just maybe, we will get our BB back and I can have an ally force with my nids that lets me blend more genestealers into things.
Sky Tyrant
HQ Hive Tyrant, wings, reaper of obliterax, old adversary, scything talons, adrenal glands
Fast Attack x10 gargoyles
Fast Attack x10 gargoyles
Ghosar Quintus Broodkin
HQ Patriarch Ghosar
HQ Magus Orthan Trysst
HQ Primus Vorgan Trysst
Troops The Favored Disciples
Troops The Faithful Throng
Elites The Purestrain Princelings
Elites The Brothers Aberrant
TOTAL: 1845
Game was against a standard eldar list, scat bikes, swordknight, aspect spiders, etc. Only thing out of the ordinary was a unit of 15 guardians with a farseer.
Game went incredibly well, though I cannot be sure if it was merely because I went first or not. He won the roll for first turn, took first, deployed fairly standardly (ITC mission 6, crusade, so DoW deployment), I deployed my flyrants on the best piece of terrain close to his line, giving all my flyrants and my skyrant shrouded. Here is where I did something different. As I was deploying second, and he had no infiltrators, i was able to throw out the entire GSC in one go. I decided instead of throwing big ol Ghosar into the fray, to instead have him dominate a flank as to maintain fearless and adamantium will for the cult. I stuck the throng on a back objective, and tried to play the rest as aggressively as possible as other than the WK, he had no real answer for CC.
And then I SEIZED!!! this was huge for the obvious reasons, but also because this allowed ghosar to hit one of the scat squads in CC before they could start harassing my backline. Kind of gone off the rails already but Ill give a quick sumary of thoughts per unit.
-Skyrant: killed the wraithknight, and spider unit man can he really do a ton of damage in CC, nice to play a melee-rant again.
-flyrant:, you know the jam, they are awesome.
-ghosar: Is a monster unit in CC, decent psyker, great for harassing flanks. I do think I made the right choice keeping him on a flank, as his buffs to the rest of the cult were too important for objectives and what not
-magus: Didn't do a whole lot this game, I wasn't entirely sure where to place him, as I wanted him close to the enemy for shriek, but wanted him protected as he is so flimsy.
-primus: absolute beatstick in CC, but not resilient enough to take hits for very long. Depending on powers (such as invis) I might stick both him and the magus with the favored disciples to give them more protection, and to further protect the magus but keep him on the frontline. I think, in the future, I would stick him with the aberrant as a small nasty little CC unit, and keep the magus with the favored.
-favored: unfortunately, they got blasted off the board before making combat...sad day
-throng: great back-midfield objective holders, with ghosar alive, 16 shrouded/ stealth fearless bodies are very hard to dislodge.
-aberrant: MAN can these guys take punishment, and dish it out too. all the low ap really makes them kick the butts of most things in CC
-princelings, more just extra wounds for ghosar, but a good number of extra attacks.
Overall they are very fun, and I cant emphasize enough that if they get first turn, they can cause SERIOUS damage. I have also found them to be a great accent to flyrants, as the threat saturation of the GSC takes a lot of the heat off the flyrants.
gameandwatch wrote: Just played a gNice ame this past weekend, running the following:
Nice write up, thanks! I get more and more inclined to buy the Ghosar formation as a ground compliment to Flyrants.
I assume you didn't use the horrible FAQ draft for your game?
Ok so, we didn't, we went off the White Dwarf bit, but ironically, it actually rarely came up... May have just been matter of circumstance, but that doesn't mean the FAQ ruling isn't dumb and un-fluffy
Solidcrash wrote: Speak of formation.. Have anyone done a formations review?
Not yet. A few of our more competitive folks moved on to other armies/forums and such, so reviews slowed down a lot.
I think I was pegged for a Meiotic Spore review that I still haven't gotten around to writing, but I haven't played in a long while either. I'm hoping to get back into the swing of things soon.
In general the most competitive formations we have are probably skyblight, skytyrant, sporefield, and living artillery. A few are passable - endless swarm, manufactorum genes, deathleaper's assassin brood, children of cryptus spring to mind. The rest are either not very good or require sinking too many points into to be worth it. Hypertoxic looks like it could be reasonable (ie second category) actually, I've just never seen or heard of it in use.
My experience with the Neuralnode last weekend was...extremely positive. Spiritleech is awesome even with average rolls. The formation packs quite a punch and the resiliency of the 3+invul and cover saves from an accompanying malanthrope gives it some hope.
I think that 4 flyrants and the node are what Ill be running competitively for a while, its a lot of fun.
SBG wrote: Bioblast node, while pricey, is incredibly tough. I screen with gants and venomthropes for cover saves, and re rolling 1s to wound at range is fun.
I just don't see it having enough of an advantage over basic dakkafex to warrant the warrior tax. You are already rerolling, and unless you have atleast 4fex your not getting any thing from the splitfire rule your paying for.
SBG wrote: Bioblast node, while pricey, is incredibly tough. I screen with gants and venomthropes for cover saves, and re rolling 1s to wound at range is fun.
I just don't see it having enough of an advantage over basic dakkafex to warrant the warrior tax. You are already rerolling, and unless you have atleast 4fex your not getting any thing from the splitfire rule your paying for.
Well a fex with two weapons can technically shoot at two targets with split Fire. And rerolling 1s is certainly useful.
Don't forget that all weapons fired in the shooting phase - devourers, deathspitters - heck, even bio plasma - re roll 1's. The Tyrannofex's acid spray, too.
And shooting the Warrior's barbed strangler at a different target is a nice perk.
SBG wrote: Bioblast node, while pricey, is incredibly tough. I screen with gants and venomthropes for cover saves, and re rolling 1s to wound at range is fun.
I just don't see it having enough of an advantage over basic dakkafex to warrant the warrior tax. You are already rerolling, and unless you have atleast 4fex your not getting any thing from the splitfire rule your paying for.
Well a fex with two weapons can technically shoot at two targets with split Fire. And rerolling 1s is certainly useful.
See, if this was the case then it might be better even pretty good, but I am pretty sure this not how it works
SBG wrote: Bioblast node, while pricey, is incredibly tough. I screen with gants and venomthropes for cover saves, and re rolling 1s to wound at range is fun.
I just don't see it having enough of an advantage over basic dakkafex to warrant the warrior tax. You are already rerolling, and unless you have atleast 4fex your not getting any thing from the splitfire rule your paying for.
Well a fex with two weapons can technically shoot at two targets with split Fire. And rerolling 1s is certainly useful.
See, if this was the case then it might be better even pretty good, but I am pretty sure this not how it works
Depends on your interpretation of split fire I suppose, but I always read it as allowing a single model to shoot two targets. To be honest I don't believe its worth the taxes regardless of the ruling, but it certainly helps if you rule it as affecting single model units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A question for the Hive Mind: With the new GWFAQs (just the main rule book one) I think that Crones have lost ground competitively, and Mawlocs are now clearly our best "support" MC to back up our mandatory Flyrants. Now the question is, what is the proper number of Lictors to compliment two Mawlocs? I am thinking 2 and 2 just because points wise it fits into my list best, but I'm curious what the rest of you have experienc with.
SBG wrote: Bioblast node, while pricey, is incredibly tough. I screen with gants and venomthropes for cover saves, and re rolling 1s to wound at range is fun.
I just don't see it having enough of an advantage over basic dakkafex to warrant the warrior tax. You are already rerolling, and unless you have atleast 4fex your not getting any thing from the splitfire rule your paying for.
Well a fex with two weapons can technically shoot at two targets with split Fire. And rerolling 1s is certainly useful.
See, if this was the case then it might be better even pretty good, but I am pretty sure this not how it works
Depends on your interpretation of split fire I suppose, but I always read it as allowing a single model to shoot two targets. To be honest I don't believe its worth the taxes regardless of the ruling, but it certainly helps if you rule it as affecting single model units.
I don't see how you can interpret the wording to allow single models to split fire.
When a unit containing at least one model with this special rule shoots, one model in the unit can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit. Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting attacks made by the rest of the unit. These must be at a different target
So your single Dakkafex can shoot at a different target than the rest of its unit. There is no rest of the unit, ergo it cannot split. Thus the Bioblast node is probably not worth the Warrior tax.
SBG wrote: Bioblast node, while pricey, is incredibly tough. I screen with gants and venomthropes for cover saves, and re rolling 1s to wound at range is fun.
I just don't see it having enough of an advantage over basic dakkafex to warrant the warrior tax. You are already rerolling, and unless you have atleast 4fex your not getting any thing from the splitfire rule your paying for.
Well a fex with two weapons can technically shoot at two targets with split Fire. And rerolling 1s is certainly useful.
See, if this was the case then it might be better even pretty good, but I am pretty sure this not how it works
Depends on your interpretation of split fire I suppose, but I always read it as allowing a single model to shoot two targets. To be honest I don't believe its worth the taxes regardless of the ruling, but it certainly helps if you rule it as affecting single model units.
I don't see how you can interpret the wording to allow single models to split fire.
When a unit containing at least one model with this special rule shoots, one model in the unit can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit. Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting attacks made by the rest of the unit. These must be at a different target
So your single Dakkafex can shoot at a different target than the rest of its unit. There is no rest of the unit, ergo it cannot split. Thus the Bioblast node is probably not worth the Warrior tax.
You're probably correct on that then. Never used the Bioblast node though, so no big deal. Thought it was bad before, now its worse!
jifel wrote: You're probably correct on that then. Never used the Bioblast node though, so no big deal. Thought it was bad before, now its worse!
I've tried it a couple of times, and it's a total bullet sponge if you back it up with a few Venomthropes. Obscuring the models with some cover or Termagants for easy 3+ (or 2+) cover saves, combined wit their natural armour and toughness, lets them soak up a silly amount of firepower (unless your opponent is packing D weapons, but then any group Tyranid is boned regardless). I always put the Tyrannofex at the head of the pack to tank as much firepower as possible.
Honestly I've never had cause to use Split Fire from the formation, but the re-roll 1s to wound is surprisingly good if you load up on the right weapons.By which I mean anything with large blast markers. My Tyrannofex runs an Acid Spray and Egrubs (of course), but the Carnifexes I actually run with Stranglethorn Cannons (have three of them sitting around so occasionally take them for a spin). Stranglethorns can reach out a long way and start piling the wounds up on enemy infantry. Now I know you're thinking Tyranids don't struggle with infantry but if you're sinking 690 points into this formation then you're stretching yourself pretty thin in medium sized games. Throw in a couple of Flyrants for anti-armour and anti-air and you're up to 1170 points. Suddenly those long range pie plates start to look pretty helpful.
At 1500 when using Bio-blast I usually go with something like this:
A question for the Hive Mind: With the new GWFAQs (just the main rule book one) I think that Crones have lost ground competitively, and Mawlocs are now clearly our best "support" MC to back up our mandatory Flyrants. Now the question is, what is the proper number of Lictors to compliment two Mawlocs? I am thinking 2 and 2 just because points wise it fits into my list best, but I'm curious what the rest of you have experienc with.
Yep Mawlocs were great and didn't have any adverse rulings in the FAQs so far, so they only got better (although we really didn't get hit that hard in the FAQ except for the people using a bastion to make the Malanthrope's effective range better (and nigh unkillable).
Of course, I was :( but the beat goes on.
I'll probably try to find a way to include a Dimanchaeron instead of the bastion. You know, because 200 points is the same as 95 points. Realistically, I'll likely drop 2 lictors to make it happen. I think it's worthwhile though.
As far as your original question, I have been running a LOT of lictors per Mawloc for redundancy. At least 3. I would never do less than 2:1, so 4 lictors for 2 Mawlocs. You can focus down a lictor too easily, but two separate squads are rather difficult to uproot, even if you know what's coming. They are great at mauling MSU that isn't marines (and can sometimes win that also) and tend to be forgotten about once they have guided in the Mawlocs. Very underrated and overlooked unit. One of the best in our codex if you take advantage of Mawloc synergy IMO.
Sinful Hero wrote: I must have missed it- which part of the FAQ killed the Bastion+Thrope combo?
Auras and area of effect rules no longer are measured from the hull of transports, they are ignored. So a Thrope in a vehicle (or fort) does nothing. Sadly Bastions, FMCs, and void shields all got hit for us... Not to mention that we lost our battle brothers. Let's just hope that there's some cool ruling in the Tyranid FAQ that will help us out!
Been seeing a lot of lists with a Dimachaeron in on these pages (and apparently one did quite well at Adepticon)! But the thing in common is that all these lists have a huge amount of flyrants and virtually no other ground pounders. Having never played with or even seen one on the table, I'm struggling to see how this can work well for the Dima - without screening units and other ground targets does he not just get focused down and die before doing anything? Any tips appreciated, as I'd like to eventually add one to my Hive Fleet!
Benlisted wrote: Been seeing a lot of lists with a Dimachaeron in on these pages (and apparently one did quite well at Adepticon)! But the thing in common is that all these lists have a huge amount of flyrants and virtually no other ground pounders. Having never played with or even seen one on the table, I'm struggling to see how this can work well for the Dima - without screening units and other ground targets does he not just get focused down and die before doing anything? Any tips appreciated, as I'd like to eventually add one to my Hive Fleet!
Can go totally rediculous and get a Hierophant with the transport capacity upgrade. Put the Dimacheron inside. Hierophant deploys as far forward as it can (at least 12 inches in), moves 12, disembarks 6, and then assaults 2d6. Dimacheron to the face, potentially turn 1 if you go second. Fill the rest of the list with 2 flyrants, Mucalids, and maybe a mal/venothrope and your done.
zerosignal wrote: Can someone run me through Skyblight Formation tactics? My housemate is going to proxy it up this weekend, he seems to think it's really strong.
Unsure if we're playing with the FAQ changes (to test) so that may have an effect, I understand Crones have been nerfed a bit now?
The flying circus is still one of our best builds imo, though others feel it's fallen off. In my opinion the 3x respawning gargoyle broods give us some really solid fast objective grabbers who endure even if killed (sometimes) - which is invaluable in maelstrom. A typical flyrant/mawloc build might have a lot more trouble actually winning the maelstrom than Skyblight, unless it masses lictors too.
But anyway, the flyrant works exactly as you'd expect, it's just another flyrant. The Crone and Harpies are mostly harassing units compared - you don't expect them to do as much damage, and you're almost happy if they soak up shooting that isn't going at the flyrants. However, you also really don't want to be forced to jink on them now, since swooping FMCs can't claim toe in cover and it prevents even vector strikes - so if you do you may as well fly them off the board the next turn. However, on the upside, now they can't ever be hit by blasts as per the wording of the FAQs, so there's less risk of their own weapons scattering onto them. With the Harpies I've found the Stranglethorns to be best - it's a pseudo TL-Dev in effect, shoot it at a unit of marines and it will get 5 or so hits hopefully, and do reasonable damage. The TL-VCs are pretty much only better for popping very high armour, think LRs. Even knights are alright to deal with if you have 3 flyrants or more, so you don't really need the Harpies to be on anti-vehicle duty. The crone will likely be flushing people out of cover and plinking off the haywire missles before he gets there opportunistically. Don't be afraid to land these ones to claim an objective for a turn or similar.
The gargoyles I tend to use initially to screen my fliers from first turn assaults, grav pods, and to provide cover if need be. Often several will get left in reserve (usually at least one deepstrikes) to hop onto objectives as demanded. They're pretty straightforward to play - use them to claim objectives and tie things up if necessary, and as screens/to block parts of the table off. Personally I've never really felt the need to run more than 10 per squad, and I wouldn't buy any upgrades as they're fine without them.
EDIT: Anyway, no testimonials about Dimachaeron usage at all?
I've never used a Dima or seen a reason to, so no testimonial I'm afraid. They're good assault units but 200 points and slow. Are you willing to spend 200 points in hopes he reaches assault? I am not.
jifel wrote: I've never used a Dima or seen a reason to, so no testimonial I'm afraid. They're good assault units but 200 points and slow. Are you willing to spend 200 points in hopes he reaches assault? I am not.
Well typically the best way to field dimas is in pods, they are real nasty in cc. My typical pure nid list has 2 in pods.
jifel wrote: I've never used a Dima or seen a reason to, so no testimonial I'm afraid. They're good assault units but 200 points and slow. Are you willing to spend 200 points in hopes he reaches assault? I am not.
Well typically the best way to field dimas is in pods, they are real nasty in cc. My typical pure nid list has 2 in pods.
And I can see that being their best use, but that's $275 at that point... Do you think you get more value out of that Dima than an extra flyrant and change?
jifel wrote: I've never used a Dima or seen a reason to, so no testimonial I'm afraid. They're good assault units but 200 points and slow. Are you willing to spend 200 points in hopes he reaches assault? I am not.
Well typically the best way to field dimas is in pods, they are real nasty in cc. My typical pure nid list has 2 in pods.
And I can see that being their best use, but that's $275 at that point... Do you think you get more value out of that Dima than an extra flyrant and change?
Oh well, I converted mine, so I didn't spend nearly that much.
jifel wrote: I've never used a Dima or seen a reason to, so no testimonial I'm afraid. They're good assault units but 200 points and slow. Are you willing to spend 200 points in hopes he reaches assault? I am not.
Well typically the best way to field dimas is in pods, they are real nasty in cc. My typical pure nid list has 2 in pods.
How has that worked for you? I would assume not assaulting until turn 3 at the earliest would hold that strategy back a bit.
jifel wrote: I've never used a Dima or seen a reason to, so no testimonial I'm afraid. They're good assault units but 200 points and slow. Are you willing to spend 200 points in hopes he reaches assault? I am not.
Well typically the best way to field dimas is in pods, they are real nasty in cc. My typical pure nid list has 2 in pods.
And I can see that being their best use, but that's $275 at that point... Do you think you get more value out of that Dima than an extra flyrant and change?
Oh well, I converted mine, so I didn't spend nearly that much.
I'm sorry, $275 meant 275 points! For one assault unit that cant charge till turn 3, thats too many points when a Flyrant brings consistent damage and is tougher.
jifel wrote: I've never used a Dima or seen a reason to, so no testimonial I'm afraid. They're good assault units but 200 points and slow. Are you willing to spend 200 points in hopes he reaches assault? I am not.
Well typically the best way to field dimas is in pods, they are real nasty in cc. My typical pure nid list has 2 in pods.
And I can see that being their best use, but that's $275 at that point... Do you think you get more value out of that Dima than an extra flyrant and change?
Oh well, I converted mine, so I didn't spend nearly that much.
I'm sorry, $275 meant 275 points! For one assault unit that cant charge till turn 3, thats too many points when a Flyrant brings consistent damage and is tougher.
While I agree that the flyrant is the most cost-effective offensive option in a bug army, for those who are determined to run assault nids, Dima-in-a-spore is actually a pretty good option (next to Swarmy-in-a-spore ).
jifel wrote: I've never used a Dima or seen a reason to, so no testimonial I'm afraid. They're good assault units but 200 points and slow. Are you willing to spend 200 points in hopes he reaches assault? I am not.
Well typically the best way to field dimas is in pods, they are real nasty in cc. My typical pure nid list has 2 in pods.
How has that worked for you? I would assume not assaulting until turn 3 at the earliest would hold that strategy back a bit.
The main strategy for bug-in-a-spore is more of board control/area denial than one of actual assault. Of course if he does manage to get into assault, then that's a huge plus.
I tend to look at it this way. Shooty nids > assault nids. HOWEVER, if you're determined to run an assaulty Tyranid build, then the dima-in-a-spore is a configuration that you should seriously consider. Otherwise, then just spam those flyrants and call it an army.
Fair enough. My preferred Spore unit is a TFex personally. His perceived CC is high, and that can be enough. I feel you on wanting assaulty Nids, my Hormagaunts are getting dusty... Meanwhile I bought another flyrant last month. :/
But anyway, the flyrant works exactly as you'd expect, it's just another flyrant. The Crone and Harpies are mostly harassing units compared - you don't expect them to do as much damage, and you're almost happy if they soak up shooting that isn't going at the flyrants. However, you also really don't want to be forced to jink on them now, since swooping FMCs can't claim toe in cover and it prevents even vector strikes - so if you do you may as well fly them off the board the next turn. However, on the upside, now they can't ever be hit by blasts as per the wording of the FAQs, so there's less risk of their own weapons scattering onto them. With the Harpies I've found the Stranglethorns to be best - it's a pseudo TL-Dev in effect, shoot it at a unit of marines and it will get 5 or so hits hopefully, and do reasonable damage. The TL-VCs are pretty much only better for popping very high armour, think LRs. Even knights are alright to deal with if you have 3 flyrants or more, so you don't really need the Harpies to be on anti-vehicle duty. The crone will likely be flushing people out of cover and plinking off the haywire missles before he gets there opportunistically. Don't be afraid to land these ones to claim an objective for a turn or similar.
EDIT: Anyway, no testimonials about Dimachaeron usage at all?
TL-HVC are not going ot be great LR buster thanks to the -1 on the vehicle chart means no chance of an explosion result so your looking at 4 glances with a single shot weapon.
zerosignal wrote:Can someone run me through Skyblight Formation tactics? My housemate is going to proxy it up this weekend, he seems to think it's really strong.
The scoring capability of the skyblight swarm is the primary strength of the formation. Besides the obvious benefits of Objective Secured and the respawning effects, the Gargoyles' Instinctive Behavior Hunt is far more forgiving than Feed or Lurk. Half the time the penalty incurred from a failed IB test can be corrected by simply moving a synapse node in range and they can act normally once more, but even then being forced to go to ground isn't terrible for a unit whos main task is securing objectives.
The offensive capability of the formation is overall reasonable but ideally you'll want to run it alongside another detachment/formation containing heavier hitters (Levithan Mucolid Tyrants, Neural Node, Manufactorium Genestealers, Crusher Node, Broodkin).
zerosignal wrote:
Unsure if we're playing with the FAQ changes (to test) so that may have an effect, I understand Crones have been nerfed a bit now?
The main nerfs that the Hive Crone took from the FAQ was that it can no longer claim a cover save from terrain unless the terrain physically obstructs them and they can no longer perform a vector strike if they choose to jink in the previous turn. It is still a functional unit, just not as stellar as it once was.
Benlisted wrote:
The TL-VCs are pretty much only better for popping very high armour, think LRs.
Agreed with the review for the most part, though I disagree with this point. While the HVC can hurt higher AV targets that are outright immune to mass S6 shots, you really don't want to be taking shots at high armor if there are better targets available (mutli-wound T4 infantry ala Wulfen, open-topped vehicles that can be exploded, blast-armed vehicles that can be suppressed by a damage table roll, 1HP vehicles that would be a waste of a devourer volley, etc.).
TL-HVC are not going ot be great LR buster thanks to the -1 on the vehicle chart means no chance of an explosion result so your looking at 4 glances with a single shot weapon.
It technically doesn't have a -1 penalty on the chart anymore, though the overall damage table adjustment more or less makes it irrelevant. That said, outside of open topped vehicles the main reason you want to be rolling on the damage table isn't so much to kill outright (since you can't) but more to shut the vehicle's offense down for a turn (half the time the target and any riders are forced to snap-shoot) until more lethal weapons can be brought against it.
Benlisted wrote:
Personally I've never really felt the need to run more than 10 per squad, and I wouldn't buy any upgrades as they're fine without them.
A case could be made for Adrenal Glands for larger units since it allows them to effectively crack open vehicles with AV10 rears, though for a general scoring unit no upgrades are needed. I personally tend to prefer units of 15-20 in the Skyblight depending on points. A larger unit makes for better bubblewrap and can actually contribute offensively until needed to secure points. The other advantage is that it is much harder to wipe them out with a single unit's firing (assuming cover), forcing a greater investment of resources into removing them and much satisfaction in watching the opponent grumble after the unit they wasted so much firepower on comes back at full strength.
Benlisted wrote:
EDIT: Anyway, no testimonials about Dimachaeron usage at all?
I haven't had an opportunity to run mine in an actual game yet, partially because I need to borrow a physical copy of the rules for it from a friend who owns the book. I might take it for a spin this Tuesday though, it has been begging for a chance to blend some marines and there is one person at our shop who wants to pit his 30k duelist character against it...
Benlisted wrote:
The TL-VCs are pretty much only better for popping very high armour, think LRs.
Agreed with the review for the most part, though I disagree with this point. While the HVC can hurt higher AV targets that are outright immune to mass S6 shots, you really don't want to be taking shots at high armor if there are better targets available (mutli-wound T4 infantry ala Wulfen, open-topped vehicles that can be exploded, blast-armed vehicles that can be suppressed by a damage table roll, 1HP vehicles that would be a waste of a devourer volley, etc.).
Doubling out multiwound low toughness models is admittedly a use I'd missed for this, but besides Wulfen there's no obvious common target that doesn't have an armour save better than 4+, meaning the chances of doing anything are slim. Moreover, small blasts are just awful in my opinion - a decent player will spread his models out enough that the marker only hits one unless you get an extremely lucky scatter. In general though, I guess the point is I don't think the HVCs are the best option
Benlisted wrote:
Personally I've never really felt the need to run more than 10 per squad, and I wouldn't buy any upgrades as they're fine without them.
A case could be made for Adrenal Glands for larger units since it allows them to effectively crack open vehicles with AV10 rears, though for a general scoring unit no upgrades are needed. I personally tend to prefer units of 15-20 in the Skyblight depending on points. A larger unit makes for better bubblewrap and can actually contribute offensively until needed to secure points. The other advantage is that it is much harder to wipe them out with a single unit's firing (assuming cover), forcing a greater investment of resources into removing them and much satisfaction in watching the opponent grumble after the unit they wasted so much firepower on comes back at full strength.
AG does have that situational usage (same as for hormagaunts) - but actually, since the gargoyles have Str4 Fleshborers, in a pinch they are actually able to glance down rear armour without getting into melee. I've never thought to myself "damn, wish I could hurt this in combat" with Gargoyles anyway. Admittedly I don't actually own more than 30 of them so I haven't experimented with more, but again I guess I've just never felt the need to add more - their bubblewrap potential is pretty good anyway, though if I wanted one big unit for the board at the start of the game I might be inclined to run 1x20, 2x10. Smaller ones are also easier to DS. As someone who also loves Endless Swarm, I've struggled with the "how many is best" question a lot. Too many and you lose a huge amount if the unit doesn't respawn - too few and the battlefield impact is minimal. I think it probably just comes down to preference and playstyle tbh!
Benlisted wrote:
EDIT: Anyway, no testimonials about Dimachaeron usage at all?
I haven't had an opportunity to run mine in an actual game yet, partially because I need to borrow a physical copy of the rules for it from a friend who owns the book. I might take it for a spin this Tuesday though, it has been begging for a chance to blend some marines and there is one person at our shop who wants to pit his 30k duelist character against it...
Interestingly, I was looking at FW the other day and IA4 with his rules in is out of stock. A friend of mine rang FW and asked about it, and apparently whilst not able to comment on it officially, they could say that typically a book is removed 4 months before a new version is released, and that they were in the process of updating the IA books. So I guess in a few months we might be seeing a new version? Here's hoping the rumours of some new big beastie that were floating around a while ago are related...
Also planning on emailing them asking if they can give the Dimachaeron Fearless base, as it's the only Nid MC without it and it makes no sense for it to be the only one to get scared, when it's the most intimidating thing we have!
In general though, I guess the point is I don't think the HVCs are the best option
Indeed, though they are nice in lower point games with the Skyblight for the flexibility they offer. In larger games though, one is probably better off specializing for anti-infantry and leave other functions to other specialists.
Benlisted wrote:
AG does have that situational usage (same as for hormagaunts) - but actually, since the gargoyles have Str4 Fleshborers, in a pinch they are actually able to glance down rear armour without getting into melee. I've never thought to myself "damn, wish I could hurt this in combat" with Gargoyles anyway.
True, though to be fair they do get twice as many attacks in combat and hit on 3's (or automatically) rather than 4's. The other advantage is that you can completely destroy whatever is being transported if you can surround all of the access points and leave them no room to disembark. It is hard to do of course and more or less requires a larger unit, but it is satisfying when it happens.
Also they do get Fleet out of it, for what its worth (unlike the poor Hormagaunts who over pay for Furious Charge).
Benlisted wrote:
Interestingly, I was looking at FW the other day and IA4 with his rules in is out of stock. A friend of mine rang FW and asked about it, and apparently whilst not able to comment on it officially, they could say that typically a book is removed 4 months before a new version is released, and that they were in the process of updating the IA books. So I guess in a few months we might be seeing a new version? Here's hoping the rumours of some new big beastie that were floating around a while ago are related...
I noticed that too. I'm hoping if it is being updated they are dropping the price on all of our gargantuan creatures, as most are atrociously overpriced compared to counterparts in other armies (supremacy suit and wraithknight in particular...)
Daring to hope, but I also wouldn't mind seeing new sculpts for the Hierodules and Harridan too. The sculpts themselves are nice looking, but the 3rd edition aesthetic doesn't mesh well with the modern designs.
Benlisted wrote:
Also planning on emailing them asking if they can give the Dimachaeron Fearless base, as it's the only Nid MC without it and it makes no sense for it to be the only one to get scared, when it's the most intimidating thing we have!
I can kinda see the logic to it not being fearless innately from a fluff perspective. With the Dimacharion basically being a Hive Tyrant offshoot with no synaptic link, it is likely sapient to some degree like Genestealers and thus subject to some sense of self preservation when not linked to the Hive Mind. That said, from a gameplay and uniformity perspective it is irksome.
If forge world were updating its rules, I'd actually rather like to see it upgraded to a Gargantuan Creature. It is tall enough to look a Wraithknight in the eye and look down on an Imperial Knight, but for some reason it isn't gargantuan enough to warrant the title... Also some new weapon options would be neat, maybe some sort of Crushing Claws or bio flails to swap out the upper arms for so it could go toe-to-toe with Knights and similar super-heavy walkers.
Well, if it's a fun list you can use anything you want anyway. But if you want to avoid trap units/options, the first post has reviews of a large variety of Tyranids with a score(A, B, C, D, F) you can use to help craft a list.
I do love the Dimachaeron model. A shame on the rules though. It's exactly as easy to kill as a foot slogging Mawloc. It should've had a native 4+ FNP and Beast, and it would fly off the shelves. As most other players I was dumbfounded when the rules came out, so I emailed Foregeworld. Got some answers july 2014:
Me:
I'm looking through my new Imperial Armour book and have a few questions regarding the Dimachaeron rules, hope you can answer.
1. If the Dimachaeron end a charge move with any part of its base in difficult terrain, is it reduced to Initiative 1 in combat?
2. Why did you invent a new rule 'Leaper' instead of just using the 'Beast' rule?
3. As a related question to the first, I find it strange that a giant leaping from the sky would get slowed to Initiative 1 by a few twigs and branches. It's akin to a giant Lictor, but Lictors have assault grenades (at least they did). Why didn't the Dimachaeron get the equivalent of assault grenades?
4. The model itself looks to be a very fast creature, so the 6" move doesn't seem logical. Compare with the 12" move of a lumbering Imperial Knight for instance. What was the reasoning behind making it only a 6" mover? (as slow as anything in the codex, instead of a unit that could keep up with the other Fast Attack units in the Tyranid faction?)
5. Putting this unit in the Fast attack slot makes it harder to build an army list around - ideally you want a really fast army that moves in a cohesive fashion, around the Dimachaeron. Well, a couple of Dimachaerons and you only have a single FA slot left, target priority gets pretty simple for your opponent. (In many games, multiple CAD armies are a no-no because it's harder to balance). What was the reasoning behind putting it in the Fast Attack slot?
6. One last thing, why did you decide to make it not Fearless? Unless I'm mistaken it's the only non-Fearless MC in the Tyranid faction.
I do love the model, one of the coolest I've seen in many years. If it was faster I would buy a couple!
Forgeworld
Hi,
Thank you for your email. The answers to your questions are as follows -
1. Yes, if follows the 40k rules for fighting in difficult terrain
2. The Leaper rule allows the Dimachaeron the ability to leap over intervening units and terrain, including impassible terrain that beast would have to move around
3. Lictors no longer have this ability. It follows the 40k rules, but please note its other abilities due to being a monstrous creature.
4. see answer to 5
5. The idea for fast attack options doesn't always mean having the longest movement rate, it also takes into account other abilities and how the entry falls withing a general list theme. You also need to remember that it is a monstrous creature and gets all the benefits of this, on top of its other rules.
6. The reason it was not given fearless, is it is not designed to be a mindless killing machine. The thought was it was a creature that would be willing to pull back, and then attack somewhere else. It is also Leadership 10, with instinctive behaviour
Me
*snip*
]And from your answer to question #6 below, it seems you meant for the Dimachaeron to have Hit and Run, but forgot to give it to him?
Because the only in-game effect of not having Fearless is that it can (and will) be run down after losing combat. Unlike any other Tyranid monsterous creature. Seems a bit... off, to put it mildly. The Mawloc does a much better job at "pulling back and attack somewhere else" with Hit and Run, and I can see no reason to derive the Dimachaeron of Fearless to achieve it. There haven't been any mindless killing machines since the old Frenzy rule in Fantasy.
FW
We appreciate your feedback in terms of the model having the Hit and Run rule and we will pass on this observation to our rules team.
N.I.B. wrote: I do love the Dimachaeron model. A shame on the rules though. It's exactly as easy to kill as a foot slogging Mawloc. It should've had a native 4+ FNP and Beast, and it would fly off the shelves. As most other players I was dumbfounded when the rules came out, so I emailed Foregeworld. Got some answers july 2014:
Me:
I'm looking through my new Imperial Armour book and have a few questions regarding the Dimachaeron rules, hope you can answer.
1. If the Dimachaeron end a charge move with any part of its base in difficult terrain, is it reduced to Initiative 1 in combat?
2. Why did you invent a new rule 'Leaper' instead of just using the 'Beast' rule?
3. As a related question to the first, I find it strange that a giant leaping from the sky would get slowed to Initiative 1 by a few twigs and branches. It's akin to a giant Lictor, but Lictors have assault grenades (at least they did). Why didn't the Dimachaeron get the equivalent of assault grenades?
4. The model itself looks to be a very fast creature, so the 6" move doesn't seem logical. Compare with the 12" move of a lumbering Imperial Knight for instance. What was the reasoning behind making it only a 6" mover? (as slow as anything in the codex, instead of a unit that could keep up with the other Fast Attack units in the Tyranid faction?)
5. Putting this unit in the Fast attack slot makes it harder to build an army list around - ideally you want a really fast army that moves in a cohesive fashion, around the Dimachaeron. Well, a couple of Dimachaerons and you only have a single FA slot left, target priority gets pretty simple for your opponent. (In many games, multiple CAD armies are a no-no because it's harder to balance). What was the reasoning behind putting it in the Fast Attack slot?
6. One last thing, why did you decide to make it not Fearless? Unless I'm mistaken it's the only non-Fearless MC in the Tyranid faction.
I do love the model, one of the coolest I've seen in many years. If it was faster I would buy a couple!
Forgeworld
Hi,
Thank you for your email. The answers to your questions are as follows -
1. Yes, if follows the 40k rules for fighting in difficult terrain
2. The Leaper rule allows the Dimachaeron the ability to leap over intervening units and terrain, including impassible terrain that beast would have to move around
3. Lictors no longer have this ability. It follows the 40k rules, but please note its other abilities due to being a monstrous creature.
4. see answer to 5
5. The idea for fast attack options doesn't always mean having the longest movement rate, it also takes into account other abilities and how the entry falls withing a general list theme. You also need to remember that it is a monstrous creature and gets all the benefits of this, on top of its other rules.
6. The reason it was not given fearless, is it is not designed to be a mindless killing machine. The thought was it was a creature that would be willing to pull back, and then attack somewhere else. It is also Leadership 10, with instinctive behaviour
Me
*snip*
]And from your answer to question #6 below, it seems you meant for the Dimachaeron to have Hit and Run, but forgot to give it to him?
Because the only in-game effect of not having Fearless is that it can (and will) be run down after losing combat. Unlike any other Tyranid monsterous creature. Seems a bit... off, to put it mildly. The Mawloc does a much better job at "pulling back and attack somewhere else" with Hit and Run, and I can see no reason to derive the Dimachaeron of Fearless to achieve it. There haven't been any mindless killing machines since the old Frenzy rule in Fantasy.
FW
We appreciate your feedback in terms of the model having the Hit and Run rule and we will pass on this observation to our rules team.
sure you'll do, lol
Hang on, since when did Lictors not have assault grenades? I just double checked my codex and it says Flesh Hooks negate the penalty for charging through terrain, and obviously Lictors are armed with them. Am I missing something?
whirlwindstruggle wrote: Hang on, since when did Lictors not have assault grenades? I just double checked my codex and it says Flesh Hooks negate the penalty for charging through terrain, and obviously Lictors are armed with them. Am I missing something?
I'm willing to bet someone over at FW just flipped open a tyranid codex and looked for "assault grenades" under Lictor and didn't see any.
whirlwindstruggle wrote: Hang on, since when did Lictors not have assault grenades? I just double checked my codex and it says Flesh Hooks negate the penalty for charging through terrain, and obviously Lictors are armed with them. Am I missing something?
I'm willing to bet someone over at FW just flipped open a tyranid codex and looked for "assault grenades" under Lictor and didn't see any.
You basically have everything you need to run most Tyranid builds. The only thing that I can recommend are some Harpies/Hive Crones + 10 more gargoyles in case you want to run Skyblight and perhaps a Barbed Hierodule as your Gargantuan.
You basically have everything you need to run most Tyranid builds. The only thing that I can recommend are some Harpies/Hive Crones + 10 more gargoyles in case you want to run Skyblight and perhaps a Barbed Hierodule as your Gargantuan.
Oh, and a Malanthrope as well.
Yeah, pretty much just missing a few forgeworld options. AS you say you are new, I am guess you aquired someone else's army as your core. Pretty nice haul.
You basically have everything you need to run most Tyranid builds. The only thing that I can recommend are some Harpies/Hive Crones + 10 more gargoyles in case you want to run Skyblight and perhaps a Barbed Hierodule as your Gargantuan.
Oh, and a Malanthrope as well.
Yeah, pretty much just missing a few forgeworld options. AS you say you are new, I am guess you aquired someone else's army as your core. Pretty nice haul.
for the most part, i acquired parts of multiple peoples armies very cheap :p
What about a 2nd Tervigon/Fex box?
Or Dia....something or other from forge world?
Tfex are fun, just dont run the rupture canon for armor hunting. An s10 ap 4 gun on a bs3 platform is just a bit confused for a 30 point upgrade.at 20 point s it might be worth it. the problem is your paying for AV level stopping power in a gun that vehilces will just shrug off, it needs a way to get a +1 on the damage table to be worth it.
The dima, is confused, it wants to be a Gargantuan CC deathmachine but it is just another slow MC that lacking fearless can in theory get swept by a bunch of guardsmen.
The only things I can see you missing are a few gargolyes and Harpies for Sky Blight formation, a box of Tyrand guard if you want to actually use the Swarmlord, maybe some more warriors if you want to run a bunch of formations, if you want to run the stealer formations you will need more stealers and a broodlord, beyond that buy what you like. Yourcollection as is runs most of the competivie builds and alot of strong fun builds.
If you get an Exocrine (and one of your warriors has a basic bio-cannon) you can run the living artillery formation - I haven't got the models for it but it looks fun!!
Hi, this seams to be the place to ask this question. I have gone through a lot of the posts already, but as the Tactica appears to be 2 years old not sure it is still the most up to date advice.
I want to run a Heirophant at 1,850. I know what most will say, but I love the model and love the rules and in a tournament where we know the missions and deployments beforehand I can plan a strategy around its weaknesses.
The main problem I have (having played at the events multiple time before) is Alpha Striking Grav. I already have 1 Malonthrope, and am planning on a second. But is there a reliable way to protect the Titan for first turn of Grav, say from something like the Skyhammer?
Also, would you guys recommend doing swarm around it (Tervigon/Termigants) or sticking with the tried and tested Flyrant. Would also like to add that I do love the Mawloc rules for anti invisibility, but the Ichor on the Titan will handle that most effectively if it gets into charge range.
The list needs to be battleforged and must not use more thn 3 sources.
SandraSmith wrote: Hi, this seams to be the place to ask this question. I have gone through a lot of the posts already, but as the Tactica appears to be 2 years old not sure it is still the most up to date advice.
I want to run a Heirophant at 1,850. I know what most will say, but I love the model and love the rules and in a tournament where we know the missions and deployments beforehand I can plan a strategy around its weaknesses.
The main problem I have (having played at the events multiple time before) is Alpha Striking Grav. I already have 1 Malonthrope, and am planning on a second. But is there a reliable way to protect the Titan for first turn of Grav, say from something like the Skyhammer?
Also, would you guys recommend doing swarm around it (Tervigon/Termigants) or sticking with the tried and tested Flyrant. Would also like to add that I do love the Mawloc rules for anti invisibility, but the Ichor on the Titan will handle that most effectively if it gets into charge range.
The list needs to be battleforged and must not use more thn 3 sources.
Thanks (and sorry the post was a bit long)
Grav is a pain in the neck against our big bugs. The Hierophant is especially vulnerable. The best answer is the Void Shield Generator, which in most formats makes the units under its protection immune to Grav. Of course this is moot if you are using the GW Draft FAQ's, but it is still valid under the ITC FAQ's.
Here are some tactics:
1. Depending on interpretation, run the Void Shield Generator and then bubble-wrap it with the HBT and lots of gants (or gargoyles). You'd want to go 1st so that you can fill out the area of protection.
2. Run a malanthrope/venomthrope, either within the VS protection or as a passanger of the HBT itself (it can take an upgrade which then lets it transport up to 20 infantry models). This way, at least you'd get a 5+ cover out in the open, followed by a 5+ FNP. Not great but still better than the 6++ Invuln.
3. Reserve the titan. Not a great option, but at least you can use it as a last-ditch tactic.
SandraSmith wrote: Hi, this seams to be the place to ask this question. I have gone through a lot of the posts already, but as the Tactica appears to be 2 years old not sure it is still the most up to date advice.
I want to run a Heirophant at 1,850. I know what most will say, but I love the model and love the rules and in a tournament where we know the missions and deployments beforehand I can plan a strategy around its weaknesses.
The main problem I have (having played at the events multiple time before) is Alpha Striking Grav. I already have 1 Malonthrope, and am planning on a second. But is there a reliable way to protect the Titan for first turn of Grav, say from something like the Skyhammer?
Also, would you guys recommend doing swarm around it (Tervigon/Termigants) or sticking with the tried and tested Flyrant. Would also like to add that I do love the Mawloc rules for anti invisibility, but the Ichor on the Titan will handle that most effectively if it gets into charge range.
The list needs to be battleforged and must not use more thn 3 sources.
Thanks (and sorry the post was a bit long)
Grav is a pain in the neck against our big bugs. The Hierophant is especially vulnerable. The best answer is the Void Shield Generator, which in most formats makes the units under its protection immune to Grav. Of course this is moot if you are using the GW Draft FAQ's, but it is still valid under the ITC FAQ's.
Here are some tactics:
1. Depending on interpretation, run the Void Shield Generator and then bubble-wrap it with the HBT and lots of gants (or gargoyles). You'd want to go 1st so that you can fill out the area of protection.
2. Run a malanthrope/venomthrope, either within the VS protection or as a passanger of the HBT itself (it can take an upgrade which then lets it transport up to 20 infantry models). This way, at least you'd get a 5+ cover out in the open, followed by a 5+ FNP. Not great but still better than the 6++ Invuln.
3. Reserve the titan. Not a great option, but at least you can use it as a last-ditch tactic.
Can the Heirophant mount a Skysheild? Seems getting a 4++ would be nice atleast for turn one. I don't play with or against enough GMC to know off hand.
Any tips for a Walkrant? Far it may be from a Flyrant, but it's for a 500 point game and Flying versions are too good at that points level, maybe even 750. Was thinking a Stranglethorn Cannon to accompany 40 Termagants (2x10 Spinefists, 1x10 Fleshborers and 10x Devourers) coupled with Hive Commander to outflank the large unit. Two Tyrant Guard to complete the set up. Large lack of synapse but meh. Maybe even drop the Devourers and Hive Commander to have Zoanthropes.
The Skyshield is interesting, I do have a Void Shield already (Built one for my Eldar that would do the job). Would give some protection and allow me to counter charge any deepstrikers
The Skyhammer (played with any punch) is around 500-600 points so it its own points sink
Also noted the FAQ on Intervening Models, with a MC in front and the Malonthrope behind the HBT will get a +3 Cover save
Frozocrone wrote: Any tips for a Walkrant? Far it may be from a Flyrant, but it's for a 500 point game and Flying versions are too good at that points level, maybe even 750. Was thinking a Stranglethorn Cannon to accompany 40 Termagants (2x10 Spinefists, 1x10 Fleshborers and 10x Devourers) coupled with Hive Commander to outflank the large unit. Two Tyrant Guard to complete the set up. Large lack of synapse but meh. Maybe even drop the Devourers and Hive Commander to have Zoanthropes.
At least the Stranglethorn to make up for its slow speed. Then either Devourers or the Miasma Cannon if you really want to make it a ranged fighter(at least against infantry models).
You might consider making room for a Venomthrope/Malanthrope to give your HQ more protection since you have so much of your list sunk into it.
Frozocrone wrote: Any tips for a Walkrant? Far it may be from a Flyrant, but it's for a 500 point game and Flying versions are too good at that points level, maybe even 750. Was thinking a Stranglethorn Cannon to accompany 40 Termagants (2x10 Spinefists, 1x10 Fleshborers and 10x Devourers) coupled with Hive Commander to outflank the large unit. Two Tyrant Guard to complete the set up. Large lack of synapse but meh. Maybe even drop the Devourers and Hive Commander to have Zoanthropes.
Personal favorite (mostly since I have Gunrant from 4e), is a Strangltethorn+Miasma cannon. Gives you to good guns to use the Tryant BS, and if you have the electro shock grubs, 2 templates to discourage assault. He is still s6 ap2 in melee so you are not losing much of anything there.
Zoanthrope support would be handy and give you a threat against armor. Zoan are not reliable, but they can crack any armor in the game.
From a Synapse stand point it might be worth running the Leviathan formation for the IB re-roll.
Lots of people have mentioned using Void Shield Generators with their Tyranids. Are you guys using the standard "imperial" looking VSG, or something more bug oriented ?
adamsouza wrote: Lots of people have mentioned using Void Shield Generators with their Tyranids. Are you guys using the standard "imperial" looking VSG, or something more bug oriented ?
I've been using a Void Shield lately, and even with the changes from the GWFAQ it's been wonderful for me. However, I am using an Imperial-looking one. Not quite the original model, but an Imperial Bastion with a plasma globe attached. At least it looks pretty!
adamsouza wrote: Lots of people have mentioned using Void Shield Generators with their Tyranids. Are you guys using the standard "imperial" looking VSG, or something more bug oriented ?
I've made about three of these myself, and I'm quite fond of them.
Going to an event in 2 weeks that's using GWFAQ with ITC rulings. ( GW takes precedence over ITC ). Got a list I've been messing around with, just looking for some ideas. Keep in mind this event has custom scenarios.
3x Flyrant with egrubs ( 2 have toxin sacs )
Malanthrope
3x Mucolid
GSC Formation
Deathleaper Assassin Brood.
Essentially playing mass MSU with LD shenanigans in there also. ( Hit a dreadknight with scream yesterday who was -7 ld. Brought a tear to my eye.)
Going to be rolling on the command table also for the power that makes units take the lowest LD instead of the highest.
Trying something different from just spamming my fliers and wanted some feedback.
reaverX wrote: Going to an event in 2 weeks that's using GWFAQ with ITC rulings. ( GW takes precedence over ITC ). Got a list I've been messing around with, just looking for some ideas. Keep in mind this event has custom scenarios.
3x Flyrant with egrubs ( 2 have toxin sacs )
Malanthrope
3x Mucolid
GSC Formation
Deathleaper Assassin Brood.
Essentially playing mass MSU with LD shenanigans in there also. ( Hit a dreadknight with scream yesterday who was -7 ld. Brought a tear to my eye.)
Going to be rolling on the command table also for the power that makes units take the lowest LD instead of the highest.
Trying something different from just spamming my fliers and wanted some feedback.
The MSU approach can be very effective, just be aware that you lack Objective Secured, so target your opponents ASAP. Also, if you know the missions in advance, I hope they're not too KP heavy as you'll have several. Is the event ATC by any chance?
reaverX wrote: Going to an event in 2 weeks that's using GWFAQ with ITC rulings. ( GW takes precedence over ITC ). Got a list I've been messing around with, just looking for some ideas. Keep in mind this event has custom scenarios.
3x Flyrant with egrubs ( 2 have toxin sacs )
Malanthrope
3x Mucolid
GSC Formation
Deathleaper Assassin Brood.
Essentially playing mass MSU with LD shenanigans in there also. ( Hit a dreadknight with scream yesterday who was -7 ld. Brought a tear to my eye.)
Going to be rolling on the command table also for the power that makes units take the lowest LD instead of the highest.
Trying something different from just spamming my fliers and wanted some feedback.
The MSU approach can be very effective, just be aware that you lack Objective Secured, so target your opponents ASAP. Also, if you know the missions in advance, I hope they're not too KP heavy as you'll have several. Is the event ATC by any chance?
It is not. It's the Slobberknocker in OK. Only one of them is KP heavy. Lack of Obsec hasn't been too big of an issue. Just make sure that I remove theirs. It's been really fun actually playing something besides all flyrants all the time. I just can't remove the GSC. Waited too long to play with them.
reaverX wrote: Going to an event in 2 weeks that's using GWFAQ with ITC rulings. ( GW takes precedence over ITC ). Got a list I've been messing around with, just looking for some ideas. Keep in mind this event has custom scenarios.
3x Flyrant with egrubs ( 2 have toxin sacs )
Malanthrope
3x Mucolid
GSC Formation
Deathleaper Assassin Brood.
Essentially playing mass MSU with LD shenanigans in there also. ( Hit a dreadknight with scream yesterday who was -7 ld. Brought a tear to my eye.)
Going to be rolling on the command table also for the power that makes units take the lowest LD instead of the highest.
Trying something different from just spamming my fliers and wanted some feedback.
The MSU approach can be very effective, just be aware that you lack Objective Secured, so target your opponents ASAP. Also, if you know the missions in advance, I hope they're not too KP heavy as you'll have several. Is the event ATC by any chance?
It is not. It's the Slobberknocker in OK. Only one of them is KP heavy. Lack of Obsec hasn't been too big of an issue. Just make sure that I remove theirs. It's been really fun actually playing something besides all flyrants all the time. I just can't remove the GSC. Waited too long to play with them.
Still seems pretty flyrant heavy to me, but then I tend to play with only 1 or maybe 2.
reaverX wrote: Going to an event in 2 weeks that's using GWFAQ with ITC rulings. ( GW takes precedence over ITC ). Got a list I've been messing around with, just looking for some ideas. Keep in mind this event has custom scenarios.
3x Flyrant with egrubs ( 2 have toxin sacs )
Malanthrope
3x Mucolid
GSC Formation
Deathleaper Assassin Brood.
Essentially playing mass MSU with LD shenanigans in there also. ( Hit a dreadknight with scream yesterday who was -7 ld. Brought a tear to my eye.)
Going to be rolling on the command table also for the power that makes units take the lowest LD instead of the highest.
Trying something different from just spamming my fliers and wanted some feedback.
The MSU approach can be very effective, just be aware that you lack Objective Secured, so target your opponents ASAP. Also, if you know the missions in advance, I hope they're not too KP heavy as you'll have several. Is the event ATC by any chance?
It is not. It's the Slobberknocker in OK. Only one of them is KP heavy. Lack of Obsec hasn't been too big of an issue. Just make sure that I remove theirs. It's been really fun actually playing something besides all flyrants all the time. I just can't remove the GSC. Waited too long to play with them.
Still seems pretty flyrant heavy to me, but then I tend to play with only 1 or maybe 2.
Yeah... Tyranids aren't really flyrant heavy until you hit 5+ these days. And given that you can fit 6 or even 7 at 1850, it's not uncommon. 3 is honestly what Id call flyrant lite at this point for us.
Ok guys, I've got a tournament coming up next weekend and it's a big one. It's the Bay Area Open (BAO) GT and it's going to be around 200 40K players.
I've decided to bring my bugs as it has been a while since I've ran them competitively. However, this time, I'm going with Tervigons. I think that tervigons are still a viable Tyranid unit in the competitive meta and I want to see how far mine can go. Tervigon + Termagants give me a strong ObSec base for the Maelstrom objectives, while also giving out hard-to-get Kill Points. Flyrants naturally will be the focus of my offense. Strategy would be to advance forwards and to swarm the objectives.
Now I don't expect to win it all, but I am going to try for Best Tyranid. I've narrowed it down to 2 lists. Which one do you think I should take?
BTW, I will post my BAO results exclusively here on this Tyranid Tactica thread after the tournament.
A strong base for Maelstrom scoring with decent Tyranid firepower. Hive Commander gives me a way to get a tervigon into my opponent's backfield if necessary (can't get very much else for 20-pts other than egrubs on my 2 tervigons). Better offense but less resiliency than List #2.
Not as much firepower as List #1 but a lot better ground presence/resiliency with 3 tervigons + 90 gants. Strategy would be to push aggressively forwards, tie things up with the gants and to sit on the objectives.
jy2 wrote: Ok guys, I've got a tournament coming up next weekend and it's a big one. It's the Bay Area Open (BAO) GT and it's going to be around 200 40K players.
I've decided to bring my bugs as it has been a while since I've ran them competitively. However, this time, I'm going with Tervigons. I think that tervigons are still a viable Tyranid unit in the competitive meta and I want to see how far mine can go. Tervigon + Termagants give me a strong ObSec base for the Maelstrom objectives, while also giving out hard-to-get Kill Points. Flyrants naturally will be the focus of my offense. Strategy would be to advance forwards and to swarm the objectives.
Now I don't expect to win it all, but I am going to try for Best Tyranid. I've narrowed it down to 2 lists. Which one do you think I should take?
BTW, I will post my BAO results exclusively here on this Tyranid Tactica thread after the tournament.
A strong base for Maelstrom scoring with decent Tyranid firepower. Hive Commander gives me a way to get a tervigon into my opponent's backfield if necessary (can't get very much else for 20-pts other than egrubs on my 2 tervigons). Better offense but less resiliency than List #2.
Not as much firepower as List #1 but a lot better ground presence/resiliency with 3 tervigons + 90 gants. Strategy would be to push aggressively forwards, tie things up with the gants and to sit on the objectives.
I believe you have a points discrepancy between your lists. Do you mean for the second to have 3 Flyrants, not 4? If so, I reccomend list number one. And extra flyrant helps you more than an extra Tervgon IMO.
I believe you have a points discrepancy between your lists. Do you mean for the second to have 3 Flyrants, not 4? If so, I reccomend list number one. And extra flyrant helps you more than an extra Tervgon IMO.
Right. Spotted and corrected my mistake.
I like List #1 myself, especially since I would have to borrow more termagants in order to run List #2. List #1 might also be a little more balanced.
I believe you have a points discrepancy between your lists. Do you mean for the second to have 3 Flyrants, not 4? If so, I reccomend list number one. And extra flyrant helps you more than an extra Tervgon IMO.
Right. Spotted and corrected my mistake.
I like List #1 myself, especially since I would have to borrow more termagants in order to run List #2. List #1 might also be a little more balanced.
For sure prefer list 1. I don't mind the use of Tervigons, let's just hope the Flyrants can take out whatever threats to them exist! My biggest fear is that a Grav-unit will be able to take out your Tervis quickly and cripple your gants as well as stopping production. Emperor help you if the Hunters eye is there too!
Void Shield and Malanthrope will help of course, but I think 4 Flyrants will have much better odds of targeting firepower and limiting what gets to shoot the Tervigons. Better to destroy your enemies ability to kill Tervigons than to take an extra and hope it lasts.
I believe you have a points discrepancy between your lists. Do you mean for the second to have 3 Flyrants, not 4? If so, I reccomend list number one. And extra flyrant helps you more than an extra Tervgon IMO.
Right. Spotted and corrected my mistake.
I like List #1 myself, especially since I would have to borrow more termagants in order to run List #2. List #1 might also be a little more balanced.
For sure prefer list 1. I don't mind the use of Tervigons, let's just hope the Flyrants can take out whatever threats to them exist! My biggest fear is that a Grav-unit will be able to take out your Tervis quickly and cripple your gants as well as stopping production. Emperor help you if the Hunters eye is there too!
Void Shield and Malanthrope will help of course, but I think 4 Flyrants will have much better odds of targeting firepower and limiting what gets to shoot the Tervigons. Better to destroy your enemies ability to kill Tervigons than to take an extra and hope it lasts.
Yeah, I got the VSG exactly for anti-grav defense. It'll also help against the massed S6-shooting of Eldar and Tau as well. The only time it may hurt is in Dawn of War deployment against a deepstriking Grav army going first. Otherwise, in the other deployments, I should be able to bubble-wrap such that Grav would be useless against my army.
Then again, if I face an alpha-strike Grav army in DoW deployment, they'll probably go after one of my flyrants over my tervigons as my flyrants are a bigger threat instead.
So it's looking more like List #1 at this point.
pinecone77 wrote: Gotta say I prefer number 1...but my disdain for Tervies is well documented...
I, on the other hand, still like tervies despite their nerf from the previous Tyranid codex.
This may be anecdotal, but I played against a Tyranid list at last year's LVO. This was in the team tournament and I brought my Daemons which got 13th Overall out of almost 300 players (they went 5-1) in the Singles event. In the team tournament, I was pitted against this new-ish Tyranid player with a "hodge-podge" Tyranid list. She ran something like this: 2 flyrants, 2 units of zoanthropes, 1 unit of 3 lictors, tervigon + 30 termagants, unit of hormagants, Hive Crone (or Harpy), 1 unit of biovores and a mycetic spore with some devilgants (I think). She wasn't the greatest tactician and she didn't know all the rules, yet her Tervigon-led Tyranids almost beat my Daemons. I was behind the whole game and would have lost had she not forgotten about Big Game Hunter.
I like the combo of Tervigon/Termagants + flyrants. Flyrants can take on MSU armies. Tervigon+gants can lock down deathstar armies to a certain extent (the smaller stars, not the super-deathstars). Like what they did to my 2++ Chaos Knight.
Yeah, I think it does stand a chance. And it benefits from running "counter meta" so you have the advantage that folks will be less familiar with how your army runs.
Good Luck! I hope you crush a Tau army with a Outflanking Tervigon.
jy2 wrote: This may be anecdotal, but I played against a Tyranid list at last year's LVO. This was in the team tournament and I brought my Daemons which got 13th Overall out of almost 300 players (they went 5-1) in the Singles event. In the team tournament, I was pitted against this new-ish Tyranid player with a "hodge-podge" Tyranid list. She ran something like this: 2 flyrants, 2 units of zoanthropes, 1 unit of 3 lictors, tervigon + 30 termagants, unit of hormagants, Hive Crone (or Harpy), 1 unit of biovores and a mycetic spore with some devilgants (I think). She wasn't the greatest tactician and she didn't know all the rules, yet her Tervigon-led Tyranids almost beat my Daemons. I was behind the whole game and would have lost had she not forgotten about Big Game Hunter.
I like the combo of Tervigon/Termagants + flyrants. Flyrants can take on MSU armies. Tervigon+gants can lock down deathstar armies to a certain extent (the smaller stars, not the super-deathstars). Like what they did to my 2++ Chaos Knight.
You sir have good memory! To be precise, her full list was:
Spoiler:
HQ1: Flyrant with Egrub
HQ2: Flyrant with Egrub
TR1: Tervigon with miasma canon
TR2: 30x Termagants
TR3: 20x Termagants with 10 devourers
TR4: 23x Hormagants
Nothing too crazy, but it's a surprisingly decent army. And if she knew the game better, she could definitively make people sweat with it. Happy she gave you some challenge though.
However I can tell you that she has kind of mixed feelings for the Tervigon. Sometime it's pretty good, sometimes its just a glorified synapse beacon. I'm usually the one that pushes her to include a Tervigon, but recently she's thinking about getting rid of it entirely to include more lictors and tyranocyte (she loves having a couple drop-poded dakkafexes nowadays).
As for your two lists, #1 looks good indeed. It has my vote.
Good luck for the BAO ! Wish we could be there, but sadly stuff happened :-(
P.S.: BTW if you know people who want tickets, we have 2 to transfer
Tervigons are absolutely still a competitive choice, especially when paired with a malanthrope. Most of the time, opponents simply can't divert the proper firepower to remove a 6 wound 6 toughness 3+ save shrouded monstrous creature, especially when it sits in backfield on home objectives.
I have usually found 1 to be enough, but an aggressive outflanking or deepstriking second one is an interesting solution to down field objectives. I ALWAYS take egrubs on them though, so there is that...
gameandwatch wrote: Tervigons are absolutely still a competitive choice, especially when paired with a malanthrope. Most of the time, opponents simply can't divert the proper firepower to remove a 6 wound 6 toughness 3+ save shrouded monstrous creature, especially when it sits in backfield on home objectives.
I have usually found 1 to be enough, but an aggressive outflanking or deepstriking second one is an interesting solution to down field objectives. I ALWAYS take egrubs on them though, so there is that...
If you're just using it to grant Shrouding to a Tervigon, wouldn't a Venomthrope be more cost efficient than a Malanthrope? Plus the lower profile can hide behind it blocking LoS.
@sinful hero I personally think Malanthropes are always, always worth it over Venoms. If jy loses a Tervigon, he needs the extra synapse since one might be outflanking. He also is just so much tougher than a Venonthrope. Venoms can get gunned down by bolters, a Malanthrope won't. A venom gets pinked in CC by anything else out there, a Malan can hold up and eventually kill a 5 man Tac squad. Malanthropes regenerate and aren't nearly as vulnerable to ignore cover, as most weapons that have it naturally are Ap5 or 4, enough to shred through venomthropes.
gameandwatch wrote: Tervigons are absolutely still a competitive choice, especially when paired with a malanthrope. Most of the time, opponents simply can't divert the proper firepower to remove a 6 wound 6 toughness 3+ save shrouded monstrous creature, especially when it sits in backfield on home objectives.
I have usually found 1 to be enough, but an aggressive outflanking or deepstriking second one is an interesting solution to down field objectives. I ALWAYS take egrubs on them though, so there is that...
If you're just using it to grant Shrouding to a Tervigon, wouldn't a Venomthrope be more cost efficient than a Malanthrope? Plus the lower profile can hide behind it blocking LoS.
jifel wrote:@sinful hero I personally think Malanthropes are always, always worth it over Venoms. If jy loses a Tervigon, he needs the extra synapse since one might be outflanking. He also is just so much tougher than a Venonthrope. Venoms can get gunned down by bolters, a Malanthrope won't. A venom gets pinked in CC by anything else out there, a Malan can hold up and eventually kill a 5 man Tac squad. Malanthropes regenerate and aren't nearly as vulnerable to ignore cover, as most weapons that have it naturally are Ap5 or 4, enough to shred through venomthropes.
It's also worth pointing out, that the malanthrope is important to take synapse duties from the terv, because at present if the terv DOES get killed, he nukes a fair amount of the gants
pinecone77 wrote: Yeah, I think it does stand a chance. And it benefits from running "counter meta" so you have the advantage that folks will be less familiar with how your army runs.
Good Luck! I hope you crush a Tau army with a Outflanking Tervigon.
jy2 wrote: This may be anecdotal, but I played against a Tyranid list at last year's LVO. This was in the team tournament and I brought my Daemons which got 13th Overall out of almost 300 players (they went 5-1) in the Singles event. In the team tournament, I was pitted against this new-ish Tyranid player with a "hodge-podge" Tyranid list. She ran something like this: 2 flyrants, 2 units of zoanthropes, 1 unit of 3 lictors, tervigon + 30 termagants, unit of hormagants, Hive Crone (or Harpy), 1 unit of biovores and a mycetic spore with some devilgants (I think). She wasn't the greatest tactician and she didn't know all the rules, yet her Tervigon-led Tyranids almost beat my Daemons. I was behind the whole game and would have lost had she not forgotten about Big Game Hunter.
I like the combo of Tervigon/Termagants + flyrants. Flyrants can take on MSU armies. Tervigon+gants can lock down deathstar armies to a certain extent (the smaller stars, not the super-deathstars). Like what they did to my 2++ Chaos Knight.
You sir have good memory! To be precise, her full list was:
Spoiler:
HQ1: Flyrant with Egrub
HQ2: Flyrant with Egrub
TR1: Tervigon with miasma canon
TR2: 30x Termagants
TR3: 20x Termagants with 10 devourers
TR4: 23x Hormagants
Nothing too crazy, but it's a surprisingly decent army. And if she knew the game better, she could definitively make people sweat with it. Happy she gave you some challenge though.
However I can tell you that she has kind of mixed feelings for the Tervigon. Sometime it's pretty good, sometimes its just a glorified synapse beacon. I'm usually the one that pushes her to include a Tervigon, but recently she's thinking about getting rid of it entirely to include more lictors and tyranocyte (she loves having a couple drop-poded dakkafexes nowadays).
As for your two lists, #1 looks good indeed. It has my vote.
Good luck for the BAO ! Wish we could be there, but sadly stuff happened :-(
P.S.: BTW if you know people who want tickets, we have 2 to transfer
I actually thought her list played well against mine. My list was more of an elitist build. The last thing I wanted was for my 300-500-pt units (Be'lakor, D-Thirster, Chaos Knight) to get bogged down against 100-120-pt gribbly units. So my army actually struggled against her army. It just goes to show that armies can surprise you. What doesn't look like a competitive build may actually work out good against the right army.
Sorry, but I don't know of anyone looking for BAO tickets. You might want to post in the BAO thread in the Tournament Discussion forum.
gameandwatch wrote: Tervigons are absolutely still a competitive choice, especially when paired with a malanthrope. Most of the time, opponents simply can't divert the proper firepower to remove a 6 wound 6 toughness 3+ save shrouded monstrous creature, especially when it sits in backfield on home objectives.
I have usually found 1 to be enough, but an aggressive outflanking or deepstriking second one is an interesting solution to down field objectives. I ALWAYS take egrubs on them though, so there is that...
I'll probably try a more varied Tyranid build with only 1 tervigon in a future event. For now, I'm going to see how a strong ObSec Tyranid build is going to do against the likes of Battle Company and Daemonic Incursion builds.
I've been contemplating egrubs on my tervies. I might adjust my List #1 slightly to fit them in, either by dropping Hive Commander or 1 biovore. We'll see.
gameandwatch wrote: Tervigons are absolutely still a competitive choice, especially when paired with a malanthrope. Most of the time, opponents simply can't divert the proper firepower to remove a 6 wound 6 toughness 3+ save shrouded monstrous creature, especially when it sits in backfield on home objectives.
I have usually found 1 to be enough, but an aggressive outflanking or deepstriking second one is an interesting solution to down field objectives. I ALWAYS take egrubs on them though, so there is that...
If you're just using it to grant Shrouding to a Tervigon, wouldn't a Venomthrope be more cost efficient than a Malanthrope? Plus the lower profile can hide behind it blocking LoS.
jifel wrote: @sinful hero I personally think Malanthropes are always, always worth it over Venoms. If jy loses a Tervigon, he needs the extra synapse since one might be outflanking. He also is just so much tougher than a Venonthrope. Venoms can get gunned down by bolters, a Malanthrope won't. A venom gets pinked in CC by anything else out there, a Malan can hold up and eventually kill a 5 man Tac squad. Malanthropes regenerate and aren't nearly as vulnerable to ignore cover, as most weapons that have it naturally are Ap5 or 4, enough to shred through venomthropes.
What jifel said.
A malanthrope versus a venomthrope is like a flyrant versus a walkrant. It is well worth it for the extra points investment, especially for a ground-based Tyranid force. The only time I would take a venom over a malan is when I am running an army that doesn't have a strong ground-based foundation. This usually means either a flyrant-spam build or a reserve-based build (like lictorshame or mycetic sporenids). In such an army, I only need the venom to protect my flyrants on T1, after which he becomes expendable.
barnowl wrote: List #1 would be my choice. lots of shooting things to force choices and enough big broods to really tye up hard to kill units.
Yeah, I've basically decided to take List #1. I might tweak it just a little (i.e. upgrades on tervies) but that's about it.
It depends, if the opponent has lots of infantry they are great otherwise they kinda suck. I prefer singles as each gives the chance to spawn d3 mines on a miss(it should be d3+1/biovore after the first or even 1/biovore but as is I'd go for singles if you have heavy slots open.
Ok, Day 1 is over and my Tyranids - Hive Fleet Pandora - is currently 2-1 and the 2nd best Tyranids (out of 8 bug players there). There are 170+ players and we've still got 3 more games to go tomorrow. The top Tyranid player is a friend of mine and someone whom I have helped to develop his army. Ironically, his Tyranids beat my Daemons at this year's LVO 2016 Team Tournament. I think that if I can win 2 out of my next 3 games, then I will have a real shot at winning Best Bugs. If I win the next 3, it should be a lock.
Round #1, I played against Space Wolves. He ran the Murderpack (3 units of the nasty Wulfen), the Heralds of the Great Wolf formation (Rune Priest, Iron Priest and Wolf Priest) and the Company of the Great Wolf (TWC, Battle Leader, 2 Iron Priests, drop pod, 3 of the Forgeworld Quad Mortars). He had 1st turn and in Dawn of War deployment, I was unable to avoid his 1st turn charge. My gants eventually melted to his assault units and it did not help that each tervigon only spawned one time before crapping out. The game ended up as a dominant win for the Wolves.
Round #2, I played against a Space Marines Battle Company with the Storm Wing formation (Stormraven, 2 Stormtalons). I designed my bugs to be able to combat against a strong ObSec army like BC. However, I didn't expect to face a flyer formation along with the BC. The Storm Wing formation has the potential to knock down a tyrant a turn. I had good dice and my opponent was not able to hold the Relic as I kept blasting his units off of it. My flyrants survived his Storm Wing flyers and the following turn, I blew both of the stormtalons away and paroxysed his stormraven down to BS1. Tyranids for the win.
Round #3, I was in for a tough fight against Taudar! He ran the Riptide Wing (3 riptides) and an Eldar CAD (farseer on bike, 4 units of 3 scatterbikes, 3 units of the Forgeworld hornets, Lynx and a Wraithknight). It was an interesting battle. My opponent had 1st Turn but then I stole the Initiative! My flyrants proceeded to blast 2 of his hornets away and without Skyfire on his tides, he never recovered. It also didn't help for my opponent that I was making my saves this game. He could not kill a single flyrant. Dominant win for Hive Fleet Pandora.
Stay tuned for more details and Day #2.
seapheonix wrote: Anybody know the list that is being run at BAO. Nids undefeated day one?
He ran a Pentyrant list similar to one of my older Tyranid lists. It consists of 5 flyrants, malanthrope, 2 mawlocs, several lictors and mucolid troops.
Looks like you had a rough time against Wolves. Good to see you playing Nids again, and going with a more balanced (4 Tyrant) list. When I run a list with Tervigons I usually do Double Malanthrope so that one instance of ignores cover can't kill my shrouded. (My Tervi list drops one flyrant for a Malanthrope and a Mawloc, plus some E.Grubs on the Tervies).
How often did you lose it to a anti-cover, or did they spend shots on a Tervigon instead?
Going to make a push to get all my current bugs painted before years end. While checking what I had in need of completion I found I have about 50 stealers. So hive mind, can we come up with a decent list that stealer heavy at 1850?
I know it will not be top tier, but darn it I miss my stealer lists. With the Cryptus and Cult additions I think there may be something playable there now.
I am open to adding more broodlords to my collection as I only have the one, especially the newer casts from Spacehulk ,Deathstorm and DeathWatch.
Heading into Day #2, I was 2nd Best Tyranids. My 1st game of the day (Game #4) was against Astra Militarum with a Cerastus Knight Castigator. He ran Commissar Zarrick, 30-man blob squad with 3 lascannons, 3 units of veterans in chimeras (1 unit of meltas, 1 with plasmas and 1 with flamers), vulture, vendetta, 2 wyverns, Aegis line with Icarus Lascannon and the Cerastus Knight Castigator. He was fortunate to get Skyfire on one of his objectives so I was looking at his blob squad with 4 Skyfire lascannons (Yarrick on the Icarus) and orders to ignore cover. Ouch! He ended up killing 3 of my flyrants but that was all. I killed most of his army except for the Knight and Yarrick. Win for the Hive Fleet Pandora.
I was standing on 3-1. However, 1st place bugs also won his matchup to go 4-0 thus far.
Game #5 was against White Scars Battle Company with lots of Grav. He had a Bikestar with Khan and the Chaplain with Hunter's Eye (relic that gives the unit Ignores Cover) and they were toting all grav! Worse yet, he went first! Now this is the game where I wish I had 3 Void Shields instead of 2. Fortunately for me, we were playing Vanguard Strike and I was able to deploy all of my flyrants out of range of his scouting bikestar (all the way in the corner) and by bubble-wrapping with lots of gants. It was a very close back-and-forth game but alas, my opponent took the win by 1-pt when he slew my Warlord.
#1 Tyranids also took his first loss so I was not out of the running yet. In order to have any chance, I would need to win big for my next game and he would need to lose.
Game #6, I played against a weird but nasty Taudar + Space Wolves army. He was running an Eldar CAD (Farseer on jetbike, 2 units of windrider jetbikes and a Wraithknight), the Riptide Wing (2 Skyfire Burstides and 1 Iontide) and the Company of the Great Wolf (Rune Priest, 2 units of 5 Wulfen, 3 drop pods and 2 Forgeworld Quad Mortars). I had Master of Ambush and 1st Turn and went after one of his Skyfire Burstides. However, after psychic powers and the shooting of 4 flyrants, his riptide was still standing with 1W left. On his turn, both wulfen came in on the drop pods and his riptides blew away 2 of my flyrants with Hailfire (2x shots from each riptide). From there it just went downhill as I was not able to kill any of his units. The game ended up a dominant Taudar/SW win.
I ended the tournament 3-3. I believe I was only in the middle of the pack. Ironically, one of my biggest problems was against assault-based lists, either with Wulfens + Thunderwolf Cavalry or Wulfens + Wraighknight. My gants just couldn't hold against their onslaught. Flyrants were solid as usual. However, the armies with Skyfire (Astra Militarum with flyers and Skyfire objective, Taudar/SW with Skyfire riptides) were able to take them out and they really struggled against riptides. Overall, I am finding the tervigon-based Tyranid list to be a mixed bag. They had their moments where they were dominating the objectives while my opponents were busy dealing with the flyrants. They also had their tough matchups where my opponents had strong and aggressive ground armies that were able to mow through my ground forces. If you want to play a Tyranid that will challenge your tactical acumen, then a Tervigon-based Tyranid list is definitely something that you might enjoy.
Looks like you had a rough time against Wolves. Good to see you playing Nids again, and going with a more balanced (4 Tyrant) list. When I run a list with Tervigons I usually do Double Malanthrope so that one instance of ignores cover can't kill my shrouded. (My Tervi list drops one flyrant for a Malanthrope and a Mawloc, plus some E.Grubs on the Tervies).
How often did you lose it to a anti-cover, or did they spend shots on a Tervigon instead?
Was your round 5 a Battle Company?
I didn't play a true Tau army with lots of Ignores Cover firepower. The only army that really ignored my cover was the White Scars Battle Company with the bikestar. Ironically, I did not lose any of my tervigons to the shooty armies. Rather, I lost them to the Assault-based armies.
Yeah, Round 5 was against White Scars Battle Company w/Bikestar.
The rise of Superfriends is what made me abandon the Tervigon back in early 7th, sadly I think that reasoning is still valid. As everyone else has at this point, I've found that minimal backfield is key for Nids as there's nothing for opponents to go after other than Flyrants and DSers.
jy2 wrote: I didn't play a true Tau army with lots of Ignores Cover firepower. The only army that really ignored my cover was the White Scars Battle Company with the bikestar. Ironically, I did not lose any of my tervigons to the shooty armies. Rather, I lost them to the Assault-based armies.
These days, most ignores cover comes from either Librarians or the White Scars allied detachment snap on that shows up more and more in armies. Librarian w/ hunters Eye. Fast Attack Drop Pod. Grav Cents. Scouts..
But yeah, Nid's have real trouble with Assaulty armies like that. I tried out dropping a Tervigon for a Dimacharon, but as good as he is in CC, he still gets obliterated by TWC or Wulfen, and Wraithknights tend to stomp him to death, so I gave it up and went double tervigon.
I think the rebirth of the tervigon is coming with the shifting meta away from blasts and Flamers in favor of multi-shot high strength weaponry. I've seen 90 Shrouded Gants die in a single turn to Renegades who generally still make use of lots of blasts. I'm so fascinated that BAO only had 1 renegade army. Every event I've attended this year, Renegades have been one of the 3 most popular armies.
I run a CAD + HFD with 4 dakka flyrants and a HQ terv. It's worked well for me but I am under no illusions that my meta is soft (though cut throat). The terv is often completely ignored, sitting shrouded in the back.
jifel wrote: The rise of Superfriends is what made me abandon the Tervigon back in early 7th, sadly I think that reasoning is still valid. As everyone else has at this point, I've found that minimal backfield is key for Nids as there's nothing for opponents to go after other than Flyrants and DSers.
Hence the evolution to lictorshame and similar type lists. But once in a while, I like to go slightly retro and try out a unit that I haven't used in a while, just to see if they still have got what it takes in this meta of ours. If nothing else, it just re-affirms what most people have already thought.
jy2 wrote: I didn't play a true Tau army with lots of Ignores Cover firepower. The only army that really ignored my cover was the White Scars Battle Company with the bikestar. Ironically, I did not lose any of my tervigons to the shooty armies. Rather, I lost them to the Assault-based armies.
These days, most ignores cover comes from either Librarians or the White Scars allied detachment snap on that shows up more and more in armies. Librarian w/ hunters Eye. Fast Attack Drop Pod. Grav Cents. Scouts..
But yeah, Nid's have real trouble with Assaulty armies like that. I tried out dropping a Tervigon for a Dimacharon, but as good as he is in CC, he still gets obliterated by TWC or Wulfen, and Wraithknights tend to stomp him to death, so I gave it up and went double tervigon.
I think the rebirth of the tervigon is coming with the shifting meta away from blasts and Flamers in favor of multi-shot high strength weaponry. I've seen 90 Shrouded Gants die in a single turn to Renegades who generally still make use of lots of blasts. I'm so fascinated that BAO only had 1 renegade army. Every event I've attended this year, Renegades have been one of the 3 most popular armies.
Our most bad-a$$ of CC-beasts still will never be able to compete against a true assault deathstar. Heck, they'd even have trouble with a lesser mini-star. However, a gant-farm still have use against moderate assault units like a Wraithknight or Imperial Knight. It's just the assault units that put out volume (Wulfen, TWC, orks, daemons) that will give them trouble.
Yeah, blasts really aren't that common anymore, with the exception of Astra Militarum armies running wyverns and Renegades. I'm not sure why there wasn't more Renegade armies at the BAO. Perhaps with the release of the new Chaos stuff, some of the Chaos players have switched to the Cyclopean Cabal for this tournament? Can't say for sure.
gigasnail wrote: I run a CAD + HFD with 4 dakka flyrants and a HQ terv. It's worked well for me but I am under no illusions that my meta is soft (though cut throat). The terv is often completely ignored, sitting shrouded in the back.
@jy2 good run, man.
Thanks!
Yeah, probably 1 tervigon is good enough, though personally, I'd prefer to run him as a troop with 30 gants. I think that is what I'll try the next time I play my bugs
jifel wrote: The rise of Superfriends is what made me abandon the Tervigon back in early 7th, sadly I think that reasoning is still valid. As everyone else has at this point, I've found that minimal backfield is key for Nids as there's nothing for opponents to go after other than Flyrants and DSers.
Hence the evolution to lictorshame and similar type lists. But once in a while, I like to go slightly retro and try out a unit that I haven't used in a while, just to see if they still have got what it takes in this meta of ours. If nothing else, it just re-affirms what most people have already thought.
I have similar experiences and will occasionally do the same thing. I'll often bring Hive Guard + Warrior MSU to local small events. When I do the flying Tyrant + Tervigon I normally run a couple of pods, as I find that with careful play I can keep the 'gaunts inside Tyrant synapse and the deep striking obj sec Tervigon + spawn is a lot of fun.
barnowl wrote: Going to make a push to get all my current bugs painted before years end. While checking what I had in need of completion I found I have about 50 stealers. So hive mind, can we come up with a decent list that stealer heavy at 1850?
I know it will not be top tier, but darn it I miss my stealer lists. With the Cryptus and Cult additions I think there may be something playable there now.
I am open to adding more broodlords to my collection as I only have the one, especially the newer casts from Spacehulk ,Deathstorm and DeathWatch.
Personally, I'd just run them as MSU 5-man units. In order for them to survive (they probably won't), you're going to need other threats to take the heat away from them. Otherwise, they're just bolter-bait. I prefer flyrants and gargoyles. I'd run something like this:
Gargoyles are a fast, mobile unit that can give the stealers cover and to try to lock up enemy units. Force the opponent to focus on the gargoyles first as they are faster than the stealers. VSG is usable in the ITC system. However, if you are playing by the GW Draft FAQ's, then you're going to want to drop it for more stealers and/or gargoyles. Lastly, it is very easy to put a 5th Flyrant into the list by dropping the gargoyles and VSG and/or 1 unit of stealers.
@jy2 I run the terv as HQ strictly because of the cost involved making it a troop. Can't out obsec battle company, I just need the gants for speedbumps.
barnowl wrote: Going to make a push to get all my current bugs painted before years end. While checking what I had in need of completion I found I have about 50 stealers. So hive mind, can we come up with a decent list that stealer heavy at 1850?
I know it will not be top tier, but darn it I miss my stealer lists. With the Cryptus and Cult additions I think there may be something playable there now.
I am open to adding more broodlords to my collection as I only have the one, especially the newer casts from Spacehulk ,Deathstorm and DeathWatch.
Personally, I'd just run them as MSU 5-man units. In order for them to survive (they probably won't), you're going to need other threats to take the heat away from them. Otherwise, they're just bolter-bait. I prefer flyrants and gargoyles. I'd run something like this:
Gargoyles are a fast, mobile unit that can give the stealers cover and to try to lock up enemy units. Force the opponent to focus on the gargoyles first as they are faster than the stealers. VSG is usable in the ITC system. However, if you are playing by the GW Draft FAQ's, then you're going to want to drop it for more stealers and/or gargoyles. Lastly, it is very easy to put a 5th Flyrant into the list by dropping the gargoyles and VSG and/or 1 unit of stealers.
Had not thought about gargoyles for the fast screen. I had been looking at running Manufactorum formation for 5 x 5 close infiltrators in buildings, a leviathan cad for Children of Cryptus, another 3 x 5 squads, so a good place to stick Gargoyles, Mal's and up to 3 flyrants. To bad Pure Strain Princelings are limited to broods of 2, they get closer to what a stealer should play like.
Cross posting a non-competitive battle report against Dark Angels. I have an upcoming tournament, and will try to get some reports in for it as well. An unconventional list is almost assured...
SBG wrote: Cross posting a non-competitive battle report against Dark Angels. I have an upcoming tournament, and will try to get some reports in for it as well. An unconventional list is almost assured...
What's the point of having single Dakkafexes in a Bio Blast Node? Single models can't split fire, so the only advantage is to reroll 1's to wound when close to your Warriors (and giving S6 your usually wounding on 2+ anyway).
I usually take the Node for the extra heavy slots, as I like having as many heavies as I can fit into the list. To be honest I always forget about rerolling the ones, too...
I suppose taking squads of 2 could be just as good as single models as each squad could target 2 units, without the LD check now. Just have to find the points eh?
I don't really play hardcore competitive, too busy forging the narrative mate
Been a while since I last had something for the hive mind, but with the switch from blasts and the like to high strength shots, I am going to do some experimenting with the Malceptor... I'll let you guys know if I work anything out or just give up and get drunk.
Unyielding Hunger wrote: Been a while since I last had something for the hive mind, but with the switch from blasts and the like to high strength shots, I am going to do some experimenting with the Malceptor... I'll let you guys know if I work anything out or just give up and get drunk.
Cool. Would love to hear about your experiences.
gameandwatch wrote: Ive actually considered running this list...just for the lulz
Actually saw a similar 7-flyrant list at the BAO. He didn't do too well, however. The only problem with this list is that it will have problems in the ITC Maelstrom Secondary objectives or any type of Progressive objectives where the flyrants have to land to pick up points each turn. Other than that, it's a list that will give many other lists problems.
Unyielding Hunger wrote: Been a while since I last had something for the hive mind, but with the switch from blasts and the like to high strength shots, I am going to do some experimenting with the Malceptor... I'll let you guys know if I work anything out or just give up and get drunk.
Cool. Would love to hear about your experiences.
gameandwatch wrote: Ive actually considered running this list...just for the lulz
Actually saw a similar 7-flyrant list at the BAO. He didn't do too well, however. The only problem with this list is that it will have problems in the ITC Maelstrom Secondary objectives or any type of Progressive objectives where the flyrants have to land to pick up points each turn. Other than that, it's a list that will give many other lists problems.
Oh I dont expect to do well, more just have a silly ol time
Just a word of caution, what you may consider a "silly time", your opponent may consider a "stupid waste of his time", especially if he is not expecting such silliness and did not bring anything to combat that many air targets.
I recommend giving your opponent advance warning of the type of list he is going to face (i.e. a flyer-heavy Tyranid list) and bring an alternate list just in case. That is assuming he is a stranger. But if he is your friend and he is already aware of what types of lists you normally run, then it's all good.
Unyielding Hunger wrote: Been a while since I last had something for the hive mind, but with the switch from blasts and the like to high strength shots, I am going to do some experimenting with the Malceptor... I'll let you guys know if I work anything out or just give up and get drunk.
Cool. Would love to hear about your experiences.
gameandwatch wrote: Ive actually considered running this list...just for the lulz
Actually saw a similar 7-flyrant list at the BAO. He didn't do too well, however. The only problem with this list is that it will have problems in the ITC Maelstrom Secondary objectives or any type of Progressive objectives where the flyrants have to land to pick up points each turn. Other than that, it's a list that will give many other lists problems.
Oh I dont expect to do well, more just have a silly ol time
Sad that as rediculous as it is, it's about as competative as we can get at the moment. I draw the line at 4 tyrants myself, but they are by far the best units we have. I ran Skyblight with a hive fleet detachment (3 flyrants, malanthrope, crone, Mucalids, and 2 deep striking rippers). That's as extreme as I go. Plus it gives me some objective holders.
What are everyone's thoughts on a deep strike heavy MC list? I have been able to fit in around 11 MCs at 1750, with Mawlocs and Dakkafexes comprising the core.
Seems like a kinda fun list mitigating the mobility issues MCs seems to have.
SBG wrote: What are everyone's thoughts on a deep strike heavy MC list? I have been able to fit in around 11 MCs at 1750, with Mawlocs and Dakkafexes comprising the core.
Seems like a kinda fun list mitigating the mobility issues MCs seems to have.
It's definitely a very fun build. However, there are a couple of issues you need to deal with.
1. Reserves manipulation. With reserves-heavy armies nowadays, you run the risk of your reserves coming in late, especially now with Death from the Skies (where you can potentially have -1 or even -2 on your reserves if your opponents bring flyer(s) in their army). We have basically 3 options here:
a) No reserves manipulation. Risky but the cheapest alternative you can get. Let's you maximize on your MC's.
b) Bastion/bunker/ADL with Comms Relay. Man it with cheap spore mines or similar units. Cheaper alternative.
c) Swarmlord in Tyrannocyte. Expensive alternative but it adds 2 MC's to your army as well as a fearsome CCMC.
2. Surviving enemy alpha-strikes. What can you start off on the table that will survive certain alpha-strike armies (like Drop Pod marines, skyhammer, etc.)? The cheapest way to go is with mucolids and spore mines. Mucolids are resilient if there are ruins. Spore mines are just small enough to hide against a lot of armies. Both options are great as they deny your opponent Victory Points. You can even consider the Sporefield Mine formation for such an army.
SBG wrote: What are everyone's thoughts on a deep strike heavy MC list? I have been able to fit in around 11 MCs at 1750, with Mawlocs and Dakkafexes comprising the core.
Seems like a kinda fun list mitigating the mobility issues MCs seems to have.
It's definitely a very fun build. However, there are a couple of issues you need to deal with.
1. Reserves manipulation. With reserves-heavy armies nowadays, you run the risk of your reserves coming in late, especially now with Death from the Skies (where you can potentially have -1 or even -2 on your reserves if your opponents bring flyer(s) in their army). We have basically 3 options here:
a) No reserves manipulation. Risky but the cheapest alternative you can get. Let's you maximize on your MC's.
b) Bastion/bunker/ADL with Comms Relay. Man it with cheap spore mines or similar units. Cheaper alternative.
c) Swarmlord in Tyrannocyte. Expensive alternative but it adds 2 MC's to your army as well as a fearsome CCMC.
2. Surviving enemy alpha-strikes. What can you start off on the table that will survive certain alpha-strike armies (like Drop Pod marines, skyhammer, etc.)? The cheapest way to go is with mucolids and spore mines. Mucolids are resilient if there are ruins. Spore mines are just small enough to hide against a lot of armies. Both options are great as they deny your opponent Victory Points. You can even consider the Sporefield Mine formation for such an army.
Excellent advice - thank you. I had not really thought about my reserves being impacted by the opponent in that way, so definitely a concern.
I'm planning on running 2 tervigons, 2 mawlocs, a DS ripper brood, one Venomthrope, minimum Gants, and the Bioblast Node, supported with three Tyrannocytes. I had considered the Swarmlord but the points are up there - and he's not the most durable, sadly.
I suppose the most pertinent question is, would you sacrifice two Tervigons for one Swarmlord and a few extra points for bodies? Possibly a third Mawloc...
Turns out only a handful of people showed so we did some pick up games instead. Played against a Chaos Marines list with a Renegade Knight - very interesting game! Knights are pretty hard to take on head to head.
Welcome back to nids, Ghosar formation! No psychic blessing trades, but still.
lol at the derp of the Subterranean Assault rule; "this rule is broken, what were you thinking?"
- GW reiterates how the rule works (in other words, yeah we know it's stupid, schaddap)
Spawned CAD Gants are now Obsec, that's a nice surprise.
Tcyte nerfed into the ground, I won't even unpack mine. Extreme derp.
Sporefield is dead. Returning spores must footslog 3" per turn from your table edge. Good job, gw.
I know this is pushing it,--but the new FAQ make tyrans IC for Hive Guard.
They say IC can join units in a T-Cyte.
SO Independent Characters can join a units in a T-Cyte...Hive Tyrant's join Tyrant Guard exactly like Independent Characters...Hive Tyrant and it's Guard can go in the same T-Cyte? ???
shadowfinder wrote: I know this is pushing it,--but the new FAQ make tyrans IC for Hive Guard.
They say IC can join units in a T-Cyte.
SO Independent Characters can join a units in a T-Cyte...Hive Tyrant's join Tyrant Guard exactly like Independent Characters...Hive Tyrant and it's Guard can go in the same T-Cyte? ???
But the transport capacity is only 20 models or one monstrous creature. So Guard plus tyrant would exceed the transport capacity.
N.I.B. wrote: Welcome back to nids, Ghosar formation! No psychic blessing trades, but still.
lol at the derp of the Subterranean Assault rule; "this rule is broken, what were you thinking?"
- GW reiterates how the rule works (in other words, yeah we know it's stupid, schaddap)
Spawned CAD Gants are now Obsec, that's a nice surprise.
Tcyte nerfed into the ground, I won't even unpack mine. Extreme derp.
Sporefield is dead. Returning spores must footslog 3" per turn from your table edge. Good job, gw.
I didn't expect them to address spawned gants, agreed that it was a pleasant surprise. Biovore mines charging the turn they get placed is nice as well. I'm surprised about your t-cyte reaction, how were you using it that the change makes a big difference?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I will be running my bugs in a few local 2k tournaments in prep for Wargames Con at the end of the month (2k ITC with 30k permited).
I expect a decently competitive meta for the con and the local events and would like feedback on my list:
The Flyrants Flyrant, and the Mucolid's and Veomthropes do their thing. The 'stealers are intended to interfere with Marine scouting and drop pods by infiltrating. Careful positioning with them should keep drop pods from landing on objectives and slow down bike stars. Depending on the opponent they can tail back to the venoms, or be put in the middle of the board to act as a speed bump-basically, anything clever I can come up with to keep my Tyrants alive if I go second.
N.I.B. wrote: I'm surprised about your t-cyte reaction, how were you using it that the change makes a big difference?
MC's don't have fire arcs like vehicles do. So you figured out what was the closest unit and shot it 5 times.
Measuring from each gun, your lucky if you can hit any unit more than once, and you'll often not get to fire all 5 guns.
If you had read the White Dwarf issue the RAI was clear, but the RAW allowed for you to use them more effectively.
I agree with both your RAW and RAI interpretations, and that hitting a given target with all five guns is better than having to spread them out, and the FAQ is defiantly not the best way it could have gone. I'm not seeing how the nerf really matters. Assuming all 5 at one target, the deathspitters net 15 shots, 5 hits, call it 3 wounds vs T4, thats a dead marine. With either of the upgrades you spend 25 points to get....an alpha strike? I mean, I can see how it could put a bunch of wounds on a squad, but your relying on the DS going well, and having a viable target. I'm not sure that's worth the 25 points.
I'm considering giving genestealer cults another try, now that they can infiltrate again. I am considering several options, but I am thinking about the following list:
19 psychic dice, which is really good for Nids. 3 Flyrants and 3 Mawlocks is solid offense, while infiltrating stealers can pin units down, and Zoanthropes give me a little more anti tank shooting. The cult units are there for objective secured, telepathy, and 4 cheap psychic dice. Should be interesting at least. I just need to nab another unit of disciples to test it out.
Tcyte nerfed into the ground, I won't even unpack mine. Extreme derp.
Biovore mines charging the turn they get placed is nice as well. I'm surprised about your t-cyte reaction, how were you using it that the change makes a big difference?
Biovore mines (and Harpy Spore Bomb mines) could always assault after being created, since there never were any rule to prevent them from that (they don't come from reserve). Most people didn't know, because it has very minor effect in games, and the units involved are weak.
Tcyte wasn't great even when ruling it as 360 LOS as all MCs (which is how it was ruled in most areas pre-faq). This was more like the straw the broke the camel's back. There's just no reason for the Tcyte to not being able to fire 360 LOS. It should be assumed that as a living, floating being it can rotate as it fires each cannon at a target.
It just goes against how MCs work. Are we supposed to draw LOS from all MC weapons now? Why should a Flyrant be able to shoot through its ass if the Tcyte cant? Or a Tyrannofex with its enormous gun, spinning on the spot like a break dancer, but not the T-cyte, no no. Why should only the Tcyte draw LOS from their guns? Even a stationary mechanical drop pod have a 360 shooting arc from its rotating turret gun, but a living being that can rotate their whole model only has a 45 degree arc? I mean, wtfGW.
You could do some decent drops with a Barbed Strangler pod. I used to field them with an Egrubbed Tcyte once in a while (before the derp of the Grav weapon Hunter's Eye delete button sillyness) to act as an anti-infantry bomb. 5 S4 pinning large blasts, a S5 flamer and a S6 torrent flamer put a serious dent in any blob. Now you lose 3-4 of those large blasts, enough that it's not worth it.
Tcyte wasn't great even when ruling it as 360 LOS as all MCs (which is how it was ruled in most areas pre-faq). This was more like the straw the broke the camel's back. There's just no reason for the Tcyte to not being able to fire 360 LOS. It should be assumed that as a living, floating being it can rotate as it fires each cannon at a target.
It just goes against how MCs work. Are we supposed to draw LOS from all MC weapons now? Why should a Flyrant be able to shoot through its ass if the Tcyte cant? Or a Tyrannofex with its enormous gun, spinning on the spot like a break dancer, but not the T-cyte, no no. Why should only the Tcyte draw LOS from their guns? Even a stationary mechanical drop pod have a 360 shooting arc from its rotating turret gun, but a living being that can rotate their whole model only has a 45 degree arc? I mean, wtfGW.
You could do some decent drops with a Barbed Strangler pod. I used to field them with an Egrubbed Tcyte once in a while (before the derp of the Grav weapon Hunter's Eye delete button sillyness) to act as an anti-infantry bomb. 5 S4 pinning large blasts, a S5 flamer and a S6 torrent flamer put a serious dent in any blob. Now you lose 3-4 of those large blasts, enough that it's not worth it.
You should post this on the Facebook page. They have been receptive to well thought out and logical responses (see the GS Cult - AoC change). What you're saying makes sense, why should this one unit be an exception to all of the Monstrous Creature rules?
I don't want to join facebook. But I think I understand why the rule writers made it like this - looking at the model it seems illogical that a gun pointing out can shoot backwards. They simply forgot that MC's have 360 LOS and they wrote themselves into a corner with the wording.
So I posted this over in the army section to see what the general populous said, but I would love to see what the nid players of the world think as well.
It's genestealer cult with a hint of deathleaper.
CAD 1 780
HQ 180
Patriarch Ghosar 115
Magus Orthan Trysst 65
Troops: 330
The Faithful throng 110
The Faithful throng 110
The Faithful throng 110
Elite: 90
The purestrain princelings 30
The purestrain princelings 30
The purestrain princelings 30
CAD 2 690
HQ 75
Primus Vorgan Trysst 75
Troops: 255
The favored disicples 85
The favored disicples 85
The favored disicples 85
Elite: 360
The brothers aberrant 120
The brothers aberrant 120
The brothers aberrant 120
Is there anything says you can't? They are a white dwarf codex just like sisters for so long, they have traditional HQ, troop, elite designations. The bummer is the HQ units are all unique currently, so the awsome formation prevents you from utilizing a CAD and vice versa.
So I posted this over in the army section to see what the general populous said, but I would love to see what the nid players of the world think as well.
It's genestealer cult with a hint of deathleaper.
CAD 1 780
HQ 180
Patriarch Ghosar 115
Magus Orthan Trysst 65
Troops: 330
The Faithful throng 110
The Faithful throng 110
The Faithful throng 110
Elite: 90
The purestrain princelings 30
The purestrain princelings 30
The purestrain princelings 30
CAD 2 690
HQ 75
Primus Vorgan Trysst 75
Troops: 255
The favored disicples 85
The favored disicples 85
The favored disicples 85
Elite: 360
The brothers aberrant 120
The brothers aberrant 120
The brothers aberrant 120
Deathleaper Assassin brood 380
I would love to hear feedback from you all.
Looks like a fun list to play, but I can't say for sure how competitive it would be. Honestly, I don't have any experience with the GSC. Looks like it will play MSU-style with decent ObSec and will have good/bad matchups. I'm not sure how it will deal against armor-heavy lists (drop pods, Imperial Knights) and it'll probably get run over by decent assault lists (Daemons, wulfen lists, fast deathstars), but the MSU-nature and in-your-face infiltration of the armies might give more traditional lists some problems.
If you run it, let us know how it went. I, for one, would be interested in hearing the results. Thanks, and good luck.
I just played a 1850 game against a tough guard mob list and just decimated him with:
2 CADS Tyranids
3Flyrants(EG/2xDiv)
4 single Zoanthropes
Brood of 3 Zoanthropes w Nero
2x 10 Brood of Termigaunts
3 Rippers w DS 2 single Mucilids
Ghosar Quintis Formation
The princelings kamakazied doing a good job tieing up his main HQ squad and source of orders (which he thought would be safe far in the back) for the first round)
The flyrants did their thing pritty much deleating a 10 man squad apease each round.
I love how Ghosar's formation puts very resilient units right in the enemies face and gives threat overload with the Flyrants first turn.
I had tons of WC and dominated the psychic phase. With 2 chances at invis and psychic scream on infiltrating units I had psychic nastyness from the get go plus the
nerothrope squad was able to really get a good run on blasts(though I crapped out on spirit leach)
Timeshadow wrote: I just played a 1850 game against a tough guard mob list and just decimated him with:
2 CADS Tyranids
3Flyrants(EG/2xDiv)
4 single Zoanthropes
Brood of 3 Zoanthropes w Nero
2x 10 Brood of Termigaunts
3 Rippers w DS 2 single Mucilids
Ghosar Quintis Formation
The princelings kamakazied doing a good job tieing up his main HQ squad and source of orders (which he thought would be safe far in the back) for the first round)
The flyrants did their thing pritty much deleating a 10 man squad apease each round.
I love how Ghosar's formation puts very resilient units right in the enemies face and gives threat overload with the Flyrants first turn.
I had tons of WC and dominated the psychic phase. With 2 chances at invis and psychic scream on infiltrating units I had psychic nastyness from the get go plus the
nerothrope squad was able to really get a good run on blasts(though I crapped out on spirit leach)
I've played that same list -2 Mucolids -1 Zoey +1 Malantrhope, but that was back when they were BB. It always worked pretty good. I was worried it couldn't deal with BC, but I really liked how it did against a Min / Maxed Eldar list.
Timeshadow wrote: I just played a 1850 game against a tough guard mob list and just decimated him with:
2 CADS Tyranids
3Flyrants(EG/2xDiv)
4 single Zoanthropes
Brood of 3 Zoanthropes w Nero
2x 10 Brood of Termigaunts
3 Rippers w DS 2 single Mucilids
Ghosar Quintis Formation
The princelings kamakazied doing a good job tieing up his main HQ squad and source of orders (which he thought would be safe far in the back) for the first round)
The flyrants did their thing pritty much deleating a 10 man squad apease each round.
I love how Ghosar's formation puts very resilient units right in the enemies face and gives threat overload with the Flyrants first turn.
I had tons of WC and dominated the psychic phase. With 2 chances at invis and psychic scream on infiltrating units I had psychic nastyness from the get go plus the
nerothrope squad was able to really get a good run on blasts(though I crapped out on spirit leach)
I've played that same list -2 Mucolids -1 Zoey +1 Malantrhope, but that was back when they were BB. It always worked pretty good. I was worried it couldn't deal with BC, but I really liked how it did against a Min / Maxed Eldar list.
I find I don't need the melenthrope as the Ghosar formation gets stealth/shrouded 1st turn and takes a lot of attention off my flyrants.
Just brought myself Deathwatch codex and study it..
I think our problem with deathwatch detachment, they can buy one model per unit. There are no limit for unit in detachment but HQ limit to 3 unit.
Flyrant with two twin link brain leech would be overkill on single model... Spilt target on up to two model per game turn is not enough, brood full of termagant shoot at single model?
Terminator cyclone missile with assault cannon going be too much for our minion, and they are single model per unit with deep strike...
Great news for us that we can gain extra victory point per unit we destroy, 20 unit of a single model destroyed = 20 VP easy.
I highly doubt we'll see deathwatch going with single model spam. Gotta use a CAD to do that, and if they're giving up Deep Strike that's fine with me. Plus, they're expensove and don't have good damage output for their points, so im less than scared. They'll pick HQs every time against us, but rerolling 1s to hit on 6s is barely a buff at all so again, not impressed. Overall I don't see Deathwatch making a splash in the competitive scene, and I don't see them affecting us whatsoever.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I highly doubt we'll see deathwatch going with single model spam. Gotta use a CAD to do that, and if they're giving up Deep Strike that's fine with me. Plus, they're expensove and don't have good damage output for their points, so im less than scared. They'll pick HQs every time against us, but rerolling 1s to hit on 6s is barely a buff at all so again, not impressed. Overall I don't see Deathwatch making a splash in the competitive scene, and I don't see them affecting us whatsoever.
Once the Flyrants are in the air, deathwatch will have a very difficult time to take them out (as most armies currently do), but don't underestimate access to divination for re-rolls to hit on stalker bolter sniper teams.
the deathwatch are also well suited to take out any of the ground units tyranids can field - with ammo that ignores cover or wounds on a 2+, the swarms and the big gribblies are both at risk.
tetrisphreak wrote: Once the Flyrants are in the air, deathwatch will have a very difficult time to take them out (as most armies currently do), but don't underestimate access to divination for re-rolls to hit on stalker bolter sniper teams.
the deathwatch are also well suited to take out any of the ground units tyranids can field - with ammo that ignores cover or wounds on a 2+, the swarms and the big gribblies are both at risk.
And Frag cannons are a thing that can rip apart most of the swarm as well.
tetrisphreak wrote: Once the Flyrants are in the air, deathwatch will have a very difficult time to take them out (as most armies currently do), but don't underestimate access to divination for re-rolls to hit on stalker bolter sniper teams.
the deathwatch are also well suited to take out any of the ground units tyranids can field - with ammo that ignores cover or wounds on a 2+, the swarms and the big gribblies are both at risk.
And Frag cannons are a thing that can rip apart most of the swarm as well.
The sad thing is, I don't even consider that a problem because in a competitive conversation for Tyranids, our swarms don't even make a ripple to me. It's just impossible for me to justify taking a unit in our codex in any size over "the smallest possible". In my current lists, I literally have one unit that is composed of multiple models, and it's 3 rippers. Deathwatch have some cool tricks but are completely lacking in AA, and so competitively I just don't see them posing a threat.
This is basically just three Start Collecting boxes, an extra Tyrant, and 2 Mawlocs. I could also add the Warriors for synapse. Any suggestions?
The only concern I have are the Termaguants. It will come down to wether you think you will have sufficient synapse coverage for them. Dominion will help, but tyrants should be up field taking the fight to your opponent. What I use instead are rippers with deepstrike. 5 points cheaper, but with more deployment options. Plus they are fearless. Worst case, they take a wound from failed synapse, but they won't run. With the 20 points you save, you can buy 2 electroshock grubs for your Tyrants.
Retrogamer0001 wrote: Good call on the Rippers, will definitely go in that direction (less models to paint too!). Are Ripper swarms still ObSec inside the CAD?
Arkengate wrote: Real talk: Why isnt the Toxicrene reviewed in the main post? o.O
Probably because we reviewed every unit as a thread a bit after the 'Dex came out. And then... that was it lol. When new rules were released, we kinda just looked at the good ones and used them without ever having the actual organization to review them. I've never used one personally, but the rules leave me less than impressed.
Arkengate wrote: Real talk: Why isnt the Toxicrene reviewed in the main post? o.O
Probably because we reviewed every unit as a thread a bit after the 'Dex came out. And then... that was it lol. When new rules were released, we kinda just looked at the good ones and used them without ever having the actual organization to review them. I've never used one personally, but the rules leave me less than impressed.
Im still relatively new. Are any of the fast attacks good, yet? (Shrikes, Ravener, Sky-Slashers?)
Exocrine/Haruspex for that living artillery / a melee option?
Is there ever a reason to have more than 1 Tervigon?
Or field a Tyrannofex?
Arkengate wrote: Real talk: Why isnt the Toxicrene reviewed in the main post? o.O
Probably because we reviewed every unit as a thread a bit after the 'Dex came out. And then... that was it lol. When new rules were released, we kinda just looked at the good ones and used them without ever having the actual organization to review them. I've never used one personally, but the rules leave me less than impressed.
Im still relatively new. Are any of the fast attacks good, yet? (Shrikes, Ravener, Sky-Slashers?)
Exocrine/Haruspex for that living artillery / a melee option?
Is there ever a reason to have more than 1 Tervigon?
Or field a Tyrannofex?
Thanks!
Well, "good" is kinda a tricky question with Tyranids. We have one great unit, the Flyrant. Anything beyond that in this codex is a tax to allow us to take more flyrants, a shrouded buffer to keep flyrants alive, or a unit you're using to fill points because you ran out of Flyrants. If you're not looking for a competitive list though, we have many options. In a friendly game, most of the units you listed are competitive. I am actually a huge fan of Shrikes, I can usually keep the firepower off of them and use them as a countercharge unit. Very fun. If you're playing a friendly game, then Tervigons, Tyrannofex, Biovores, Tyrannocytes, Exocrines, Gargoyles, Shrikes, etc. all become fairly competitive.
I guess what I'm asking is, Given i can do the 5 FHT thingy, thats fine.
Of those, are there specific uses that something is used for? Like, would there be a reason to bring a 2nd Tervigon? or add a Tyrannofex to my army? (I have one, buying the gun still!)
What exactly is the role of Exocrine, Haruspex? We have Dimachaeron, so where does Haruspex fit in? Would I ever feasibly field one? Exocrine seems to be long ranged tank killer, though. Is that Living Artillery worth actually using?
Im glad to hear shrikes are good :-)
Lastly; Have GW stated anything about Genestealers and fixing their ally issue? I know the FAQ isnt final yet, and it seems there was an uproar about it a while ago (Before i started)
Arkengate wrote: I guess what I'm asking is, Given i can do the 5 FHT thingy, thats fine.
Of those, are there specific uses that something is used for? Like, would there be a reason to bring a 2nd Tervigon? or add a Tyrannofex to my army? (I have one, buying the gun still!)
What exactly is the role of Exocrine, Haruspex? We have Dimachaeron, so where does Haruspex fit in? Would I ever feasibly field one? Exocrine seems to be long ranged tank killer, though. Is that Living Artillery worth actually using?
Im glad to hear shrikes are good :-)
Lastly; Have GW stated anything about Genestealers and fixing their ally issue? I know the FAQ isnt final yet, and it seems there was an uproar about it a while ago (Before i started)
The Tyrannofex with the stock Acid Spray and Electroshock Grubs in a Tyrannocyte is still pretty awesome.
I personally use the Living Artillery Node all the time (well, back when I played my Nids) and it has done awesome. It also helps that they clarified finally that you reroll everything as far as the scatter dice are concerned from the formation, and for the barrage you can reroll just the subsequent scatter die rolls.
Haruspexes are just pretty bad, imo.
Shrikes are, pardon my French, garbage. I'm sure they have their niche in an all deep-strike-oriented list, but otherwise, gross.
and I love Mawlocs...I kinda think #3 has a nice symetry to it... 
).
