Or a typo, one can hope.

zamerion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Not seen it mentioned but the preview page has "a time to celebrate" and "new rules" listed for the May issue, could be something, might be nothing.

Maybe AoS General handbook II?

The current General's Handbook dropped on July 23rd, 2016.

 BrookM wrote:
Or a typo, one can hope.

It's almost certain that is a typo. The Skitarii specialist is 90 points. The Neophyte one is probably 100.

 Starfarer wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Or a typo, one can hope.

It's almost certain that is a typo. The Skitarii specialist is 90 points. The Neophyte one is probably 100.

I don't think so...

Why would a random cultist be more than an Ad-Mech foot soldier?

WD describes the new terrain as the first three kits in the Sector Mechanicus range. Fingers crossed its more than just rebrands of existing kits.

Just spotted a crane in the pics of the Ferro-giant alphus board

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Or a typo, one can hope.

It's almost certain that is a typo. The Skitarii specialist is 90 points. The Neophyte one is probably 100.

I don't think so...

Why would a random cultist be more than an Ad-Mech foot soldier?

Because it's not a random cultist, it's a specialist for the gang. Heavies in Necromunda cost more than regular models, partially based on the equipment they had access to.

The cost for the Neophyte heavy is so far off from the rest of the costs listed for everything else that it is 99.9% likely it's a typo.

Interesting that the Hand Flamer doesnt have a template, it is fully converted to range.

 MangoMadness wrote:
Interesting that the Hand Flamer doesnt have a template, it is fully converted to range.

Original 2nd ed/Necromunda Hand Flamer used a much smaller template than the current one does.

nou wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:
Interesting that the Hand Flamer doesnt have a template, it is fully converted to range.

Original 2nd ed/Necromunda Hand Flamer used a much smaller template than the current one does.

I know, thats why i commented that it has been removed and changed to a ranged weapon

 Verviedi wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Those are not options for those models though.

...Exactly. Encouraging conversions, like old Necromunda.

You can make Rangers with Radium Carbines. That's new, isn't it?

 Crimson wrote:
Can anyone remind me what's the point of the juves (or equivalents)? IIRC, in Necromunda they had different equipment options than normal gangers, but this is not the case with these lists, so are they just slightly cheaper, suckier, basic gangers?

They advance more quickly. Between 0 XP and 21 XP (where they become a Ganger), there are tons more advances, so they get skills and stat upgrades fast.

 Verviedi wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Those are not options for those models though.

...Exactly. Encouraging conversions, like old Necromunda.

As mentioned previously, GW can't sell conversions.

Yep, meatshields and if they survive they end up experienced and gnarly pretty quick.

 Necros wrote:
I bought 2 boxes of Skitarii when they first came out with grand plans for an army, that fizzled out. So I'll definitely be putting together a gang of them.

Are there any regular tyranids in the game? Like a bunch of different gaunts lead by a warrior?

I shall add a Genestealer pet, and I shall name him- Spots.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Those are not options for those models though.

...Exactly. Encouraging conversions, like old Necromunda.

As mentioned previously, GW can't sell conversions.

Tell that to the Inq28 community. I've spent far more on random kits for converted gangs and warbands than it would cost to build a standard size 40k army. They absolutely encourage conversions or Blanchitsu wouldnt be a fixture in White Dwarf. That said, they aren't going print rules for things that dont come in a box. Not ideal, but dont pretend that is a new thing. Necromunda did it 21 years ago, so this isn't a surprise nor a new development. It's your campaign, add house rules of needed, which was also part of Necromunda as well.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Those are not options for those models though.

...Exactly. Encouraging conversions, like old Necromunda.

You can make Rangers with Radium Carbines. That's new, isn't it?

Yes, and I truly love that.

 MangoMadness wrote:

nou wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:
Interesting that the Hand Flamer doesnt have a template, it is fully converted to range.

Original 2nd ed/Necromunda Hand Flamer used a much smaller template than the current one does.

I know, thats why i commented that it has been removed and changed to a ranged weapon

I thought the last incarnation of Necromunda (Underhive) did away with the small hand flamer template. I'm sure it used the current templates.

Conversions (along with the now classic Custodian artwork from the card games) are what pulled me into 40k despite years of naysaying my brother about it and sticking to historicals.

Anything that promotes it is welcome. And to those who say GWcant sell conversions, thry sure sold me on them!

Chairman Aeon wrote:

I thought the last incarnation of Necromunda (Underhive) did away with the small hand flamer template. I'm sure it used the current templates.

It did, same with Community edition

But I always felt that it was too powerful the hand flamer, in that game sure it is only Str3 but still you can hit a lot of duders with it

Didn't Underhive change the Hand Flamer to the regular flamer template, but you got 1 shot and that's it?

 Starfarer wrote:
Tell that to the Inq28 community. I've spent far more on random kits for converted gangs and warbands than it would cost to build a standard size 40k army. They absolutely encourage conversions or Blanchitsu wouldnt be a fixture in White Dwarf. That said, they aren't going print rules for things that dont come in a box. Not ideal, but dont pretend that is a new thing. Necromunda did it 21 years ago, so this isn't a surprise nor a new development. It's your campaign, add house rules of needed, which was also part of Necromunda as well.

Except that GW kits are becoming less and less modular as they react to the CHS situation.

With the exception of Space Marines (and then even some of them with the way they're moulding the hands and weapons) they are trying to drive away the third-party bits industry. Just look at a lot of recent releases - Tzaangors are a good recent example - where their bits are compatible with them and them alone. The arms contain part of the shoulder/shoulder blades, and are as far from generic as possible, making simple conversions and kitbashing very difficult.

 Grot 6 wrote:
I shall add a Genestealer pet, and I shall name him- Spots.

The big Genestealer Cult in our campaign had two Purestrains. The original one was called Huggles.

He just wants to hug!

I am thinking about ordering this off GW website, but it says the product doesn't ship out till the following Monday
So it will be the next Wednesday before I would get mine.. Anyone have experience with GW Mail order in the US??
I have also heard the people get their stuff early instead.. but just wondering..

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Tell that to the Inq28 community. I've spent far more on random kits for converted gangs and warbands than it would cost to build a standard size 40k army. They absolutely encourage conversions or Blanchitsu wouldnt be a fixture in White Dwarf. That said, they aren't going print rules for things that dont come in a box. Not ideal, but dont pretend that is a new thing. Necromunda did it 21 years ago, so this isn't a surprise nor a new development. It's your campaign, add house rules of needed, which was also part of Necromunda as well.

Except that GW kits are becoming less and less modular as they react to the CHS situation.

With the exception of Space Marines (and then even some of them with the way they're moulding the hands and weapons) they are trying to drive away the third-party bits industry. Just look at a lot of recent releases - Tzaangors are a good recent example - where their bits are compatible with them and them alone. The arms contain part of the shoulder/shoulder blades, and are as far from generic as possible, making simple conversions and kitbashing very difficult.

The hand being molded onto the weapons thing was annoying at first, but now that every kit is that way it makes it just as easy as before. I havent seen the tzaangors, and there are certainly kits that aren't ideal but there's more to work with now that there ever was. One quick search shows just how much versatility there is, and kits like the GSC hybrids have made for so many different unique conversions.

Still that is all beside the point that the person mentioning conversions was for wargear not normally allowed by that faction. Thats not particularly surprising, and again is easily bypassed in a campaign setting where you make the rules. Seems like creating an issue to complain about when there really isn't an issue.

The Tzaangors having their chest and arms in one piece is more likely because it looks way better. They have bare upper bodies, so having their arms connect at the shoulder would look horribly unnatural. They actually came up with a solution that allows for multipose organic creatures without seam lines.

But yeah, these last couple of years have been a goldmine of amazing conversion kits. INQ28 (a community I'm very involved with) has seen a huge surge in popularity, especially on FB, because of how many great, interchangeable kits GW have released lately that have become staples in the community. GSC being the latest, and they're even specifically called out in White Dwarf as being compatible with Skitarii bits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Pity they're using studio models to play on it and not their own conversions or the like.

You can't sell conversions...

Like all the battle reports for Necromunda, where the players used their own converted gangs? No, that's not right ...

 zedmeister wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
So they did bring back sustained fire dice.

I suspect it will be a d6 roll halved rounding down. Scores of nought, Jam. Unless, of course, you have an old set.

Necromunda Underhive did away with Sustained Fire dice fourteen years ago.
In the original edition, you rolled to hit once, then rolled x Sustained Fire dice. In underhive, you first roll x D3, then make that many To Hit rolls. It's much less all-or-nothing, and the removal of the Jam result is replaced by the possibility of having to make up to 6 Ammo rolls instead of one.

 MangoMadness wrote:

nou wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:
Interesting that the Hand Flamer doesnt have a template, it is fully converted to range.

Original 2nd ed/Necromunda Hand Flamer used a much smaller template than the current one does.

I know, thats why i commented that it has been removed and changed to a ranged weapon

The Underhive edition tweaked the rules to use the templates available in 3rd edition 40k onwards; the hand flamer in that used the flamer template instead of its old titchy wee one, but only got one shot. I think this version is better.

As for conversions, we all managed to convert metal one-piece Necromunda gangers. If things like Tzanngors not having universal arm joints is putting you off, then I'm going to start complaining about the feckless youth of today.

Sorry if this was already posted but: http://www.miniwars.eu/2017/03/imagenes-white-dwarf-abril.html

A TON of scenery, some Genestealers and Skitarii rules, and other stuff (15 or so pics).

(Spanish article, but you don't need to know spanish to see the pics)

CMLR wrote:
Sorry if this was already posted but: http://www.miniwars.eu/2017/03/imagenes-white-dwarf-abril.html

A TON of scenery, some Genestealers and Skitarii rules, and other stuff (15 or so pics).

(Spanish article, but you don't need to know spanish to see the pics)

Yeah those are my pics that were removed from this thread. Don't know if you can post them.

CMLR wrote:
Sorry if this was already posted but: http://www.miniwars.eu/2017/03/imagenes-white-dwarf-abril.html

A TON of scenery, some Genestealers and Skitarii rules, and other stuff (15 or so pics).

(Spanish article, but you don't need to know spanish to see the pics)

Derived from the pictures of this site, the "game" set will include 1x Alchomite stack, 1x Ferratonic Furnance and a set of walkway including 2x half platform (extra, 4 in total), 2x Corner walkways, 2x half length straight walkways and 2x full length straight walkways.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Except that GW kits are becoming less and less modular as they react to the CHS situation.

With the exception of Space Marines (and then even some of them with the way they're moulding the hands and weapons) they are trying to drive away the third-party bits industry. Just look at a lot of recent releases - Tzaangors are a good recent example - where their bits are compatible with them and them alone. The arms contain part of the shoulder/shoulder blades, and are as far from generic as possible, making simple conversions and kitbashing very difficult.

Yeah but no, given they are demonstrably designing kits to be compatible:



I think you're using the wrong example to prove a point it doesn't prove. As others have stated, the Tzaangor 'arm attached to shoulder' is to avoid the dreaded Catachan Shoulder Seam that looks, well, awful. And the hand attached to weapon has been stated to be to avoid Wonky Weapon Syndrome - ie the hand and gun are always aligned.

I think its more the issue that GW is not going to write rules for such conversions.
Hopefully this game will encourage community like Necromunda and Inquisimunda

So, no news about which factions will have rules?

 Mymearan wrote:
Yeah those are my pics that were removed from this thread. Don't know if you can post them.

While posting images is not always ok, links usually are.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, no news about which factions will have rules?

We've seen about 16.

Skitarii Rangers
Chaos Space Marines
Cultists
Dark Eldar Wyches
Dire Avengers
Eldar Guardians
Harlequin Troupe
Grey Knights Strike Squad
Necron Immortals
Necron Warriors
Tau Empire Pathfinder Team
Tyranid Warrior Brood
Neophyte Hybrids
Scouts
Scouts with sniper rifles
Cadian Infantry Squad
Ork Boyz

We also saw Tau fire warriors and breachers mixed in the same kill team from the video.

Boo, hopefully the Chaos Space Marines get broken down to use the new Thousand Sons and upcoming Death Guard in some way.

Would be cool if they did rules for Inquisitor Retinues later on.

We should find out on Saturday, as then the relevant boxed sets should have links to their Kill Team lists.

Did I miss something over the years, or has Armageddon always "originally been known as Ullanor"?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, no news about which factions will have rules?

We've seen about 16.

Skitarii Rangers
Chaos Space Marines
Cultists
Dark Eldar Wyches
Dire Avengers
Eldar Guardians
Harlequin Troupe
Grey Knights Strike Squad
Necron Immortals
Necron Warriors
Tau Empire Pathfinder Team
Tyranid Warrior Brood
Neophyte Hybrids
Scouts
Scouts with sniper rifles
Cadian Infantry Squad
Ork Boyz

Those are (some of) the box sets you can buy which contain models useable in the game; not quite the same thing. For example, Scouts and Scouts with Sniper Rifles are almost certainly one faction, and the genestealer Cult faction includes models from at least three different box sets (and a couple of models from Deathwatch Overkill).

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Like all the battle reports for Necromunda, where the players used their own converted gangs? No, that's not right ...

Battle reports for Necromunda? From 20-ish years ago? Wow. You sure got me there.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Did I miss something over the years, or has Armageddon always "originally been known as Ullanor"?

So it's only been known as that for the last year or so since the book came out.

Roger that. I never finished the last two books in the series.

Interesting that they just have it out in the open on the "Ups and Downs" bit for Armageddon.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Like all the battle reports for Necromunda, where the players used their own converted gangs? No, that's not right ...

Battle reports for Necromunda? From 20-ish years ago? Wow. You sure got me there.

Three I can recall; Issue 191 had a battle between Goliaths and Orlocks, 198 had Ratskins vs Escher and 203 had Delaques and Adeptus Arbites vs Escher ("Papa" Steve Anastasoff's Burger Boys against Warwick's Black Orchid gang, the same gang as faced off against the Ratskins earlier).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, no news about which factions will have rules?

12 factions and one or more kill teams per faction.

Hmm, Shadow War Armageddon at $130 (CA$160) is a little steep. I was kind of hoping for sub $100.

Well we already know the first five; Orks, SM scouts, I.G, Skitarii and Genestealers.
We've also seen from various pictures kill team pages for; DE Wyches, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines and Tau pathfinders.
There was also a photo of Tau fire warriors. That makes 10 kill teams over 9 factions, matches the community page pretty closely.

There are also images of Black Templars fighting DE grotesques and a Talos.

Easy now.

Skitarii and Genestealer Cult are in this month's White Dwarf - and whilst I still need to check the article properly (I'm at work, it's at home) I suspect that means they're not included in the main box.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Easy now.

Skitarii and Genestealer Cult are in this month's White Dwarf - and whilst I still need to check the article properly (I'm at work, it's at home) I suspect that means they're not included in the main box.

From what we have heard the main box will only have rules for Guard, Orks, and SM Scouts. All other factions are supposed to be on the GW site Saturday as PDFs.

The only factions in the actual rulebook are Orks, I.G and Space Marines. The rest are free downloads.

Some more shots of the new table can be found here: https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2017/03/28/new-diorama-ferro-giant-alphus/

Wow!

jeez...what a table.

Oddly enough....

I've been told by my sales rep that this is "while supplies last" and "a bridge until the next edition comes out". He's hopeful that if GW sees good sales from it, that they will offer more support.

I'm hoping they at least keep the main game in print for a good while, or put all the rules up for download and sell scenery seperately.

 mikhaila wrote:
Oddly enough....

I've been told by my sales rep that this is "while supplies last" and "a bridge until the next edition comes out". He's hopeful that if GW sees good sales from it, that they will offer more support.

I'm hoping they at least keep the main game in print for a good while, or put all the rules up for download and sell scenery seperately.

Awwhh. Well I'm getting it the day it comes out.

 mikhaila wrote:
Oddly enough....

I've been told by my sales rep that this is "while supplies last" and "a bridge until the next edition comes out". He's hopeful that if GW sees good sales from it, that they will offer more support.

I'm hoping they at least keep the main game in print for a good while, or put all the rules up for download and sell scenery seperately.

We already know the scenery is available separately. It's listed as separate items in this month's White Dwarf with prices. Surely your rep would have filled you in on that if he's giving information on the base game?

I think this game has the potential to really surprise GW. There's been such a void in their line up for this type of game for a long while now, and there's a very active community carrying on the Necromunda rules for 40k units, to which this gives an official stamp. I'm buying 2 boxes at launch, and that's barely going to get me started on the terrain. My only concern is them not doing a pdf for Inquistion forces, as that is at the core of the Inq28 community that's been carrying this torch for nearly a decade now.

The base box is blatantly a way to shift scenery and, given it's been released alongside separate £30-a-plastic-Pringles-tube's-worth kits, it doesn't surprise me that they'd hit and quit on the Shadow Wars box.

If its a one and done, why bother with store support and organized play?

On the other hand GW must realize this could eclipse Blood Bowl if done right, which I don't think they did.

 squall018 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Easy now.

Skitarii and Genestealer Cult are in this month's White Dwarf - and whilst I still need to check the article properly (I'm at work, it's at home) I suspect that means they're not included in the main box.

From what we have heard the main box will only have rules for Guard, Orks, and SM Scouts. All other factions are supposed to be on the GW site Saturday as PDFs.

This is also what I heard from my local store guy, as well. All, if you want in on this one, your best bet is to go in on the boxed set. You can pitch the Scouts and Orks on trade. That limited release thing was told to me, as well, and there wasn't much in terms of future in the conversation. If that means it is like the other one off games, like the ones GW keeps popping out- is my guess.

I'm in on a prepaid order, as well. I may still go for the two boxes, but I only have enough scratch this month for 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chairman Aeon wrote:
If its a one and done, why bother with store support and organized play?

On the other hand GW must realize this could eclipse Blood Bowl if done right, which I don't think they did.

It is a... introductory for something that they (GW) are coming up with pretty soonish. Not sure of the validity of it being related to new 40K news in it, but if I would hazard a guess, I think it has something to do with it.

Any knowledge or guesses if the rules will be released as ebooks/pdfs/whatevers? If this is limited release then the rules might end up quite expensive on ebay.

 Grot 6 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chairman Aeon wrote:
If its a one and done, why bother with store support and organized play?

On the other hand GW must realize this could eclipse Blood Bowl if done right, which I don't think they did.

It is a... introductory for something that they (GW) are coming up with pretty soonish. Not sure of the validity of it being related to new 40K news in it, but if I would hazard a guess, I think it has something to do with it.

So something like Silver Tower before Hammerfel then? Or do you believe it's going to be something bigger?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The base box is blatantly a way to shift scenery and, given it's been released alongside separate £30-a-plastic-Pringles-tube's-worth kits, it doesn't surprise me that they'd hit and quit on the Shadow Wars box.

Maybe, but why bother with a standalone game and 120 page rulebook with support for a ton of factions if it's just to move the terrain? They could have included the Kill Team rules and saved a ton of time and money.

And frankly, if the game sells well they will support it despite if it isn't currently the plan. GW has shown with games like Bloodbowl they will crank out new content if the demand is there. We also know that they have been working on new Necromunda concept stuff since at least a year ago. Seems doubtful they would have the art director working on new concepts for a 20 year old game unless they were planning on a rerelease. This terrain just allows them to have a variety of stuff already on the market for a game that require mass amounts of terrain. It also gets more 40k player familiar with the system with stuff they already own in this release.

 Samsonov wrote:
Any knowledge or guesses if the rules will be released as ebooks/pdfs/whatevers? If this is limited release then the rules might end up quite expensive on ebay.

I think someone relaying info from Adepticon said no immediate plans for a digital rulebook.

 judgedoug wrote:
Hmm, Shadow War Armageddon at $130 (CA$160) is a little steep. I was kind of hoping for sub $100.

it's 180 cad

 Starfarer wrote:
We also know that they have been working on new Necromunda concept stuff since at least a year ago. Seems doubtful they would have the art director working on new concepts for a 20 year old game unless they were planning on a rerelease. This terrain just allows them to have a variety of stuff already on the market for a game that require mass amounts of terrain. It also gets more 40k player familiar with the system with stuff they already own in this release.

Again, this worries me about GW. If they think a new version of Necromunda will have longer legs than SWA (proper 40K Kill teams), I'm pretty sure they are just firing shotguns. SWA is the game I've been waiting 25 years for. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone...even if you haven't been waiting that long. Bought and sold two editions of Necromunda. Sold off my gangers. Never wanted to play IG without Flak.

The more I look at it, the more it seems that someone in the studio did all the hard work (for their own amusement) and then a manager decided to clean it up for a release.

Then again maybe nostalgia is much more profitable than I wish to believe.

 Starfarer wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The base box is blatantly a way to shift scenery and, given it's been released alongside separate £30-a-plastic-Pringles-tube's-worth kits, it doesn't surprise me that they'd hit and quit on the Shadow Wars box.

Maybe, but why bother with a standalone game and 120 page rulebook with support for a ton of factions if it's just to move the terrain? They could have included the Kill Team rules and saved a ton of time and money.

Because they already sold us Kill Team. And the rules didn't exactly take a lot of work - mostly done 20 years ago. ;-) And hey, if you want to play 40K after playing this? Guess you'll have to buy more rules. As others have speculated, it could be a holdover to allow 40K releases without treading on 8th's toes and/or invalidating things quickly.

Shilling terrain and tickling nostalgia bones seem to be the driving forces for this release. Actual effort would have included new miniatures. It's clearly not about the minis when they've bundled the old, old minis with the new, new terrain.

 Starfarer wrote:
And frankly, if the game sells well they will support it despite if it isn't currently the plan. GW has shown with games like Bloodbowl they will crank out new content if the demand is there.

Mos def.

I think the cynicism is a bit strong here. Occum's Razor suggests that THIS box will be the limited release, as it is deeply discounted versus what these will all cost pieced-together later.

Common sense says the terrain will continue to be sold, and the rule-book will eventually be sold separately. But here, at pretty deep savings a "brand new" player would get dice, acrylic templates, the rules, some models, terrain, etc... for what the terrain alone will cost a couple months from now.

Also, new GW has been anything but daft. I'm hearing vendor level pre-sales are CRAZY high for this, and GW will respond accordingly with support, etc...

I got to read the rule book at my GW store. It's indeed nearly copy and paste from Necromunda, just with different bands and campaign rules.

Well, why not, but it feels weird to use an old rule setting for 40k while the next edition is coming soon.

The main interest is the plastic terrains. It seems you got the three in the big box, so yeah, it's less expensive than to buy the terrains separately.

I'm a bit sad that there are only three factions in the book. Kinda fluffy, since it's war on Armaggedon against the orks and that Astra Militarum and Spaces Marines are the main force, but since we will get PDF for other factions and there are two in the April White Dwarf (Skitarii and Genestealer Cults), that's still good.

Campaign rules are interesting. You don't gain experience, instead one of your guys gain a progression after each mission. You can only upgrade once each of your characteristics, you reroll if you get the same. Wound tables are also much simpler, no more loss in characteristics (it was quite a pain, to be honest) and only using one dice for the rolls.

It's a bit funny to see campaign rules are so simple while the rest of the rules are quite detailed.

Yeah, that doesn't seem to be the hallmark of a game designed to stick around... sadly seems a quick copy/paste from Necromunda. I suppose they could release a campaign book, but I doubt it'll happen. Ah well, should still be fun! Necro rules are a blast and the more playing them the merrier. Will be interesting to see whether they used their rules or borrowed any bits of the tweaked and balanced New Community Edition (my preferred version).

I honestly suspected the campaign rules would take a hit (what with "territories" and such not making a load of sense), but with the rules being 1:1 with Necromunda, converting old, more robust campaign systems in, should be all but instantaneous.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I honestly suspected the campaign rules would take a hit (what with "territories" and such not making a load of sense), but with the rules being 1:1 with Necromunda, converting old, more robust campaign systems in, should be all but instantaneous.

Territory would sort of make sense in such a massive war.

I like how they take a reasonable approach with the background, having only Orks, Imperial Guard and Space Marines on Armageddon in the rules, meanwhile they release rules for loads of other factions for free online. It strikes a good balance between having a reasonable background and giving the player choice.

Here's some pic and of how the new terrain works....

 streetsamurai wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Hmm, Shadow War Armageddon at $130 (CA$160) is a little steep. I was kind of hoping for sub $100.

it's 180 cad

Where'd you see that? The GW retailer/trade newsletter listed it as US130/CAD160. Available to order April 1 with a street date of April 8.

WD says $180Cdn

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
WD says $180Cdn

Weird, there's definitely some confusion within GW then

Could be because WD is done so far in advance, and the $160 is accurate on account the UK is trying to wreck its economy?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blades of Khorne stuff has the same price as WD though...

 judgedoug wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
WD says $180Cdn

Weird, there's definitely some confusion within GW then

If that box is $130...fffffffffff.

 Sarouan wrote:
I got to read the rule book at my GW store. It's indeed nearly copy and paste from Necromunda, just with different bands and campaign rules.

Well, why not, but it feels weird to use an old rule setting for 40k while the next edition is coming soon.

The main interest is the plastic terrains. It seems you got the three in the big box, so yeah, it's less expensive than to buy the terrains separately.

I'm a bit sad that there are only three factions in the book. Kinda fluffy, since it's war on Armaggedon against the orks and that Astra Militarum and Spaces Marines are the main force, but since we will get PDF for other factions and there are two in the April White Dwarf (Skitarii and Genestealer Cults), that's still good.

Campaign rules are interesting. You don't gain experience, instead one of your guys gain a progression after each mission. You can only upgrade once each of your characteristics, you reroll if you get the same. Wound tables are also much simpler, no more loss in characteristics (it was quite a pain, to be honest) and only using one dice for the rolls.

It's a bit funny to see campaign rules are so simple while the rest of the rules are quite detailed.

A few questions:

Are regular marines an option for the Marine faction? or are scouts the only option?
Did you remember if different chapters had different rules? or was there no difference between marines?

Milkshaker wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
I got to read the rule book at my GW store. It's indeed nearly copy and paste from Necromunda, just with different bands and campaign rules.

Well, why not, but it feels weird to use an old rule setting for 40k while the next edition is coming soon.

The main interest is the plastic terrains. It seems you got the three in the big box, so yeah, it's less expensive than to buy the terrains separately.

I'm a bit sad that there are only three factions in the book. Kinda fluffy, since it's war on Armaggedon against the orks and that Astra Militarum and Spaces Marines are the main force, but since we will get PDF for other factions and there are two in the April White Dwarf (Skitarii and Genestealer Cults), that's still good.

Campaign rules are interesting. You don't gain experience, instead one of your guys gain a progression after each mission. You can only upgrade once each of your characteristics, you reroll if you get the same. Wound tables are also much simpler, no more loss in characteristics (it was quite a pain, to be honest) and only using one dice for the rolls.

It's a bit funny to see campaign rules are so simple while the rest of the rules are quite detailed.

A few questions:

Are regular marines an option for the Marine faction? or are scouts the only option?
Did you remember if different chapters had different rules? or was there no difference between marines?

Also, if the rules are a copy-paste, how are the bajillion weapons-available-in-40K-but-not-in-Necromunda handled?

I guess anyone who has seen the WD could also answer this.

 Starfarer wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Oddly enough....

I've been told by my sales rep that this is "while supplies last" and "a bridge until the next edition comes out". He's hopeful that if GW sees good sales from it, that they will offer more support.

I'm hoping they at least keep the main game in print for a good while, or put all the rules up for download and sell scenery seperately.

We already know the scenery is available separately. It's listed as separate items in this month's White Dwarf with prices. Surely your rep would have filled you in on that if he's giving information on the base game?

I think this game has the potential to really surprise GW. There's been such a void in their line up for this type of game for a long while now, and there's a very active community carrying on the Necromunda rules for 40k units, to which this gives an official stamp. I'm buying 2 boxes at launch, and that's barely going to get me started on the terrain. My only concern is them not doing a pdf for Inquistion forces, as that is at the core of the Inq28 community that's been carrying this torch for nearly a decade now.

LOL, no, the offfical GW sales reps can only talk about what is coming out next week Been that way for years now. I come to Dakka to find out what is coming out. GW tells retailers nothing "We feel its better this way and helps keep you focused on selling what is out this week". The rest of the industry laughs at how GW treats FLGS.

 Altruizine wrote:
Also, if the rules are a copy-paste, how are the bajillion weapons-available-in-40K-but-not-in-Necromunda handled?

I guess anyone who has seen the WD could also answer this.

They made rules for them, simples. Hello, being able to play GS Cult gangs in Necromunda!

It sounds like I am going to home-brew a mutant hybrid of Shadow War and Necromunda Community Edition... making a best-of-both, with the likely more full featured level-up/progression/territory system.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
Also, if the rules are a copy-paste, how are the bajillion weapons-available-in-40K-but-not-in-Necromunda handled?

I guess anyone who has seen the WD could also answer this.

They made rules for them, simples. Hello, being able to play GS Cult gangs in Necromunda!

Right, this is why Shadow War is win-win. Even if it doesn't get continued support, the community that's been playing all this time anyway, gets rules for most 40k units for including in Necromunda, or just for whatever Inq28/Inquisimunda people come up with. People were homebrewing it anyway, but now we have an official seal for all of it and set points and equipment rules for new wargear items.

So it seems campagin rules are ultra shallow and streamlined :(
That's really dissapointing since it was the best part of Necro

 streetsamurai wrote:
So it seems campagin rules are ultra shallow and streamlined :(
That's really dissapointing since it was the best part of Necro

Examples? Source? What is so shallow about them?

Any news on the "new ork buggies"? And if this is no longer the thread to post about them, should I create one?

read what was written by the posters above, and it should be pretty obvious


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 squall018 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
So it seems campagin rules are ultra shallow and streamlined :(
That's really dissapointing since it was the best part of Necro

Examples? Source? What is so shallow about them?

read what was written by the posters above, and it should be pretty obvious

 squall018 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
So it seems campagin rules are ultra shallow and streamlined :(
That's really dissapointing since it was the best part of Necro

Examples? Source? What is so shallow about them?

Context is an important part of conversations. It helps you understand what a person might be talking about and it also helps people replying to formulate responses that don't make it blatantly obvious that they're not reading the thread.

But to give you the benefit of the doubt, the context of this comment is that streetsamurai is responding to posts further up/on the last page that talk about how advancement is done for 1 character per mission, rather than it being experienced based, and how what can be advanced is rather limited (stat points can go up by 1, for example).

Written much better than I could.

Also, the injuty roll is now reduced to one dice only, and doesn't affect any of the stats (which is the thing that made it so fun and gave character to your gangers)

So, Notcromunda it is.

Why do they always step up to the precipice of greatness only to turn and run screaming, leaving such potential wasted (the two recent Warhammer Quest releases being good examples).

I'm thinking exactly the same thing as you do. It is utterly bizarre

 squall018 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
So it seems campagin rules are ultra shallow and streamlined :(
That's really dissapointing since it was the best part of Necro

Examples? Source? What is so shallow about them?

Higher on this page:

 Sarouan wrote:
I got to read the rule book at my GW store. It's indeed nearly copy and paste from Necromunda, just with different bands and campaign rules.

Well, why not, but it feels weird to use an old rule setting for 40k while the next edition is coming soon.

The main interest is the plastic terrains. It seems you got the three in the big box, so yeah, it's less expensive than to buy the terrains separately.

I'm a bit sad that there are only three factions in the book. Kinda fluffy, since it's war on Armaggedon against the orks and that Astra Militarum and Spaces Marines are the main force, but since we will get PDF for other factions and there are two in the April White Dwarf (Skitarii and Genestealer Cults), that's still good.

Campaign rules are interesting. You don't gain experience, instead one of your guys gain a progression after each mission. You can only upgrade once each of your characteristics, you reroll if you get the same. Wound tables are also much simpler, no more loss in characteristics (it was quite a pain, to be honest) and only using one dice for the rolls.

It's a bit funny to see campaign rules are so simple while the rest of the rules are quite detailed.

Bit gutted about the campaign rules. Stat limitation and reduced injury table I don't mind, keep in mind there is still the skill tables.
Looking at the roster, it would seem you need to complete 3 missions to level up? Seeing how you can only progress one guy per mission this will probably slow advancement compared to Necromunda, main difference is that its linear.
I'll have to play a few games to see how it goes.

So the other part I've seen from facebook is that the Promethium Caches pretty much replaces territory, collect 15 to win the campaign, you can spend 1 to hire a special operative.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
WD says $180Cdn

Weird, there's definitely some confusion within GW then

If that box is $130...fffffffffff.

$97.5 with 25% discount from online retailer is pretty freakin good!!!
However I'm going to pick up a hemotrope reactor as well soooo....

I'm going to have to wait and see how the simplified progression system works. Simplified injury table isn't bad as some of the minutia of that stuff works well for ragtag gangs, but can you honestly imagine your Skitarii Ranger with an eye injury? They'd have a servitor plucking that out and slapping in a bionic in no time. Doesn't really make sense for 40k factions to be strapped for cash and suffering from minor injuries like that. None of that or the stat caps are too troubling. The rest I think is worth playing some games before judging. I don't need this to be a total carbon copy of Necromunda if it is fun.

Hopefully the leveling is done well though. I think that will be the key to whether it works to be less random, cause the dice can curse you badly when relying on chance to advance. But having a predetermined 3 missions, regardless of wounding hits or other factors could feel like a grind and you just need to play through games to rank up. In other words, I hope they don't go the FPS video game route for grinding progression.

 Starfarer wrote:
I'm going to have to wait and see how the simplified progression system works. Simplified injury table isn't bad as some of the minutia of that stuff works well for ragtag gangs, but can you honestly imagine your Skitarii Ranger with an eye injury? They'd have a servitor plucking that out and slapping in a bionic in no time. Doesn't really make sense for 40k factions to be strapped for cash and suffering from minor injuries like that. None of that or the stat caps are too troubling. The rest I think is worth playing some games before judging. I don't need this to be a total carbon copy of Necromunda if it is fun.

Hopefully the leveling is done well though. I think that will be the key to whether it works to be less random, cause the dice can curse you badly when relying on chance to advance. But having a predetermined 3 missions, regardless of wounding hits or other factors could feel like a grind and you just need to play through games to rank up. In other words, I hope they don't go the FPS video game route for grinding progression.

That's it... I also don't see prisoner exchanges being much of a thing either =D

A simpler Campaign rules may also make it easier to do a campaign map set up (was always annoying in necro when doing a map and having people 'find' new territory)

I'd imagine the missions will be different.

And yes, not having an extensive injury chart is fine, especially given it's Notcromunda not Necromunda where such lingering injuries fit the style of the game a bit more.

But advancement for one person over an arbitrary 3 game limit? Why even do it that way?

link to quick references for the game:
http://imgur.com/a/7FVNg
Looks pretty much the same including hand to hand rules.
Looks like Terminators are in with the old 3+ on 2D6 armour save, but with a 5+ invulnerable! That sounds pretty scary.

Looks good so far.

Just noticing that Ammo rolls have changed, instead of a say 4+ on a D6 its roll a 5+ on 2d6.

Which makes sense... these are army mens fighting in a warzone.. not poor gangers fighting in slums

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd imagine the missions will be different.

And yes, not having an extensive injury chart is fine, especially given it's Notcromunda not Necromunda where such lingering injuries fit the style of the game a bit more.

But advancement for one person over an arbitrary 3 game limit? Why even do it that way?

Well we don't know what it entails and people are going off a intro guide shown at GAMA which had preprinted rosters that had three slots I believe. Could be there are objectives in each mission that count towards upgrade. So maybe wounding hit, or complete a mission objective, etc. are each one advancement point and with 3 you get an upgrade roll.

That's what would make the most sense to me, but that doesn't make it so. Just have to wait and see I guess.

Thanks for sharing the quick reference sheet, gives us a good idea of what to expect.

Zachectomy wrote:
Any news on the "new ork buggies"? And if this is no longer the thread to post about them, should I create one?

If you don't have any news to post, you definitely shouldn't be opening a new thread in News & Rumors.

I like that the new ammo roll is 2d6, means some weapons are alot more reliable

Check out this video "Shadow War Armageddon Rules Review and PLAYTEST!" http://www.twitch.tv/thedroppodcast/v/131947237?sr=a&t=0s

Sat down with kill team sheets for Tau and Grey Knights. Will be doing full actual games tomorrow. Some people may not have seen the stats for army lists, so, we threw together Jill teams ND navigated the rules reference and army sheets the best we could.

 Dravis wrote:
Bit gutted about the campaign rules. Stat limitation and reduced injury table I don't mind, keep in mind there is still the skill tables.
Looking at the roster, it would seem you need to complete 3 missions to level up? Seeing how you can only progress one guy per mission this will probably slow advancement compared to Necromunda, main difference is that its linear.
I'll have to play a few games to see how it goes.

So the other part I've seen from facebook is that the Promethium Caches pretty much replaces territory, collect 15 to win the campaign, you can spend 1 to hire a special operative.

Well if the campaign rules are gutted, you can always revert to the necromunda one, i think there is still a living rule book i think.

I like the new Ammo Roll rules. That explains the 7+'s we saw (I thought they'd be the old roll a 6, then roll a 4+, as perhaps a better alternative to the 'Auto-fail' rules from before, but I like this better).

The Skitarii weapons make way more sense now. 5+ on 2D6 is significantly easier than 5+ on 1D6.

And 2D6 saves on Terminators! WOOO!

Yup.

Really looking forward to giving this a whirl. As the games should be a lot shorter, I'm hoping it'll prove a practical alternative to 40k for me to play the club. Given I'm up at 5:30am and home around 7:00pm weekdays, any game which can be done and dusted in around an hour will fit this lifestyle!

Plus, I don't need to buy any new models, as I'll simply field my Skitarii. Or possibly my Genestealer Cult (well, I say it's a Cult. It's more of a small Lodge or Club House. May an avid Fan Group. Contents of Overkill, plus an additional box of each Acolyte type)

Reckon we're all competent enough to up the complexity of the post game sequence as we wish - what's important is that we have fixed Gang costs to kick off with. Simply agree which Necromunda we're lifting it from, and off we go (though given the wider range of races, the 'one pip limit' to star advances aren't such a bad idea)

Yup, it's not like the campaign rules are difficult to include if you want to have your gangs spiral out of control for the full Necromunda experience.

D6 for surviving, 5 for a kill, 10 for leader if he wins.

Start leaders and specialists on 60 + d6, normal guys on 20 + d6 and the me recruits on.... well, they should probably be 10 because they aren't as bad as juves That start on 0

Use the old injury table.


I'll be using the new version. Necromunda breaks down into unfunness once all your guys become walking death machines.

Less to track, less chance of one gang spiraling out of control and dominating a campaign easily and a goal for the campaign. All good things for what should be the introduction to the 40k universe that new players should experience.

Oh man the auto-correct is strong

"Squid-hide armor", I suspect that should be Squig.

Nope. It's a special stealth armour to prevent people noticing you're carrying Cephalopods to war.

And by people, I mean your commanding officer. Who's had quite enough of your non-sequiturs thank you very much.

 CardBoardKing wrote:
Check out this video "Shadow War Armageddon Rules Review and PLAYTEST!" http://www.twitch.tv/thedroppodcast/v/131947237?sr=a&t=0s

Sat down with kill team sheets for Tau and Grey Knights. Will be doing full actual games tomorrow. Some people may not have seen the stats for army lists, so, we threw together Jill teams ND navigated the rules reference and army sheets the best we could.

So, you have access tot he rules? Are Sisters in?

Thanks CardBoardKing for the video, very brave to play a game with only the quick reference guides.
The Storm Bolter is listed under special weapons by the way, you could've had fun with the sustained fire dice

Thinking about the campaign rules, simplifying them down sounds like a good idea, xp might be too much though.

Not sure I like Special operatives all having the same hire value (1 Promethium Cache). I think adapting some of Mordheim's warp stone rules might be a good idea, like selling the cache for x amount of credits, then fixing a hire value to various operatives.

Is it just me, or do orks seem very weak in this?

BS 2 and at least -1 to hit with most shots is pretty bad. Marine scouts presumably get BS 4 and bolt weapons seem to get +1 to hit compared to the 'equivalent' ork weapons. So shots that the scouts are making on say a 4+ the orks need a 6+ followed by a 4+. So the marines probably hit about four to six times as often as the orks with shooting.

Close combat is a little better, but only a little. The extra attack an ork gets isn't a great bonus with these rules. At least Initiative seems less important.

All this would be fine if orks can field two or three times as many models, but the box contents seems to imply that orks and scouts are considered roughly equal in value.

There is the bit on the Genestealer cult saying the cult get free models in any scenarios the Orks would do. So that probably helps a bit.

Necromunda was always hugely in favour of ranged gangs though

so heres a question, and maybe this speaks to me not understandin how all this save mod stuff works:

Flak Armor is a 6+ save, and gives 5+ against weapons that use blasts and templates. But when I go to look at a basic flamer, it's got a -2 save mod! Wouldn't that 5+ be useless anyway?

Save mods seem really REALLY strong compared to normal armor saves tbh, and that's got me worried. I mean, shoot a flamer at a model wearing terminator armor and he's got a 5+ save on 2d6? That's so wimpy!

EDIT: if I'm reading the melee rules correctly, a S4 space marine holding a chainsword lowers a terminators armor save to a six! Really??

is there a mechanic I'm missing that raises a model's armor save? If not, why do -5sv weapons exist in a game with only 3+ saves?

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Is it just me, or do orks seem very weak in this?

BS 2 and at least -1 to hit with most shots is pretty bad. Marine scouts presumably get BS 4 and bolt weapons seem to get +1 to hit compared to the 'equivalent' ork weapons. So shots that the scouts are making on say a 4+ the orks need a 6+ followed by a 4+. So the marines probably hit about four to six times as often as the orks with shooting.

Close combat is a little better, but only a little. The extra attack an ork gets isn't a great bonus with these rules. At least Initiative seems less important.

All this would be fine if orks can field two or three times as many models, but the box contents seems to imply that orks and scouts are considered roughly equal in value.

The battle report in the April WD pits a 5 man Scout squad and 10 man guard squad against 2 x 10/11 ork squads so this would suggest the equivalent value is roughly 2 orks per scout.

I think the box contents are more to do with the sniper and bolter/shotgun scouts being on separate sprues, so require a full 10 scouts to enable all the options to be available.

the_scotsman wrote:
so heres a question, and maybe this speaks to me not understandin how all this save mod stuff works:

Flak Armor is a 6+ save, and gives 5+ against weapons that use blasts and templates. But when I go to look at a basic flamer, it's got a -2 save mod! Wouldn't that 5+ be useless anyway?

Save mods seem really REALLY strong compared to normal armor saves tbh, and that's got me worried. I mean, shoot a flamer at a model wearing terminator armor and he's got a 5+ save on 2d6? That's so wimpy!

EDIT: if I'm reading the melee rules correctly, a S4 space marine holding a chainsword lowers a terminators armor save to a six! Really??

is there a mechanic I'm missing that raises a model's armor save? If not, why do -5sv weapons exist in a game with only 3+ saves?

No in 2nd ED you only used the Strength of the model for the Armor Save Mod if the weapon they're using doesn't already have an Armor Save mod itself. So that S4 Chainsword is still only -2. So the Terminator needs a 5+ on 2D6 when attacked by a Chainsword.
EDIT:
Of course the other question is if Invulnerable saves can be taken in addition to regular armor saves as they were in 2nd Edition.

Well, here's hoping that this game is giving basic weaponry extra stats to differentiate them, and this isn't the kind of stuff we see in base 40k. You'd quickly reduce anything but a basic 2+ armor save to something you'd almost never get or benefit from if we've got chainswords reducing space marines to a 5+ and boltgun rounds with a basic -1.

I think the invulnerable save would be in addition, so a terminator would roll 2D6, then 5+ on a D6 for his armour save.
The -5 save mod was mostly for vehicles in 2nd Ed I'm pretty sure, it's been about 20 years since I played.

 Dravis wrote:
I think the invulnerable save would be in addition, so a terminator would roll 2D6, then 5+ on a D6 for his armour save.
The -5 save mod was mostly for vehicles in 2nd Ed I'm pretty sure, it's been about 20 years since I played.

I'd say you're probably right on the Invulnerable Saves but hard to know if they have just gone for an almost copy and paste job of 2nd Edition rules or not. It is the case that the Chainsword's -2 mod looks to be higher then it was in the 2nd ED reference I'm using.

Those -5 mod weapons will almost certainly be crazy expensive. Look at the cost of the Mining Laser and Transuranic Arquebus. I expect a Meltagun to be at least 200pts.

Was I right in reading this weekend GW is putting up the PDFs of all 10 armies on the website? Swore I did read that buried somewhere in here...

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, here's hoping that this game is giving basic weaponry extra stats to differentiate them, and this isn't the kind of stuff we see in base 40k. You'd quickly reduce anything but a basic 2+ armor save to something you'd almost never get or benefit from if we've got chainswords reducing space marines to a 5+ and boltgun rounds with a basic -1.

I'm particularly interested in whether the Lasgun has any save modifier. Are they just porting wholesale, or making selective adjustments. The post that said Flak armour was only 6+ would suggest a straight port, but equally that could be a reason to drop the -1 so a guardsman at least gets a chance against the lasgun.

str00dles1 wrote:
Was I right in reading this weekend GW is putting up the PDFs of all 10 armies on the website? Swore I did read that buried somewhere in here...

Yes, they are. Not sure if all of them are going up or just the lists not in the main rulebook.

xerxeshavelock wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, here's hoping that this game is giving basic weaponry extra stats to differentiate them, and this isn't the kind of stuff we see in base 40k. You'd quickly reduce anything but a basic 2+ armor save to something you'd almost never get or benefit from if we've got chainswords reducing space marines to a 5+ and boltgun rounds with a basic -1.

I'm particularly interested in whether the Lasgun has any save modifier. Are they just porting wholesale, or making selective adjustments. The post that said Flak armour was only 6+ would suggest a straight port, but equally that could be a reason to drop the -1 so a guardsman at least gets a chance against the lasgun.

The Lasgun has no save modifier, and yeah Flak is 6+, 5+ against template weapons. Dravis posted the quick reference sheet earlier this morning.

Lasguns used to have a -1 Modifier?

Dunno if they do in this though.

A Chainsword in 2nd ed. had a -1 armour save modifier. The most powerful armour save modifier was -6, which still gave Terminators a chance of ignoring it (effectively representing an invulnerable save). 9+ on 2D6 was tough but it happened.

Terminators did not have invulnerable saves in addition to their 3+(2D6) save unless they were characters with a field purchased (and you roll fields before armour, because that's what an attack would hit first).

Lasguns did have a -1 save modifier etc. Also the ranges are mostly whacky on all of the weapons in the SWA stuff listed. So, while the rules look very similar to Necromunda, a lot has changed (and I suspect these weapon profiles will be very indicative of 8th ed.) Overall, pretty disappointed with the dumbing down of another reborn product. it was quite expected, but it's sad that they didn't bother pushing deeper into the mechanics.

I will just leave this ...
http://imgur.com/a/heMlh

Ahhh the Hiding rule. Subject of many pages of disagreement on forums.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
so heres a question, and maybe this speaks to me not understandin how all this save mod stuff works:

Flak Armor is a 6+ save, and gives 5+ against weapons that use blasts and templates. But when I go to look at a basic flamer, it's got a -2 save mod! Wouldn't that 5+ be useless anyway?

Save mods seem really REALLY strong compared to normal armor saves tbh, and that's got me worried. I mean, shoot a flamer at a model wearing terminator armor and he's got a 5+ save on 2d6? That's so wimpy!

EDIT: if I'm reading the melee rules correctly, a S4 space marine holding a chainsword lowers a terminators armor save to a six! Really??

is there a mechanic I'm missing that raises a model's armor save? If not, why do -5sv weapons exist in a game with only 3+ saves?

Terminator saves are on 2D6, so -5 is useful.

Flamers SHOULD immolate people wearing glorified mattresses. Flak Armour is largely ineffective, such as it always was. May stop the odd autogun round or shotgun shell, no good against torrents of flame or mass-reactive Coke-can-sized 'splodey bulletrockets.

Take cover, people. This ain't your 'stride down the middle of a barren table' tournament 40K game! Armour should be a precarious thing against the many lasery and melty forms of death available!

Hiding and Overwatch were two things I hated about 2nd Ed. Overwatch just brought games to a standstill.

"Uhh... all my stuff's on Overwatch. Your turn."
"Ok... umm... yeah. All my stuff is on Overwatch then. Your turn."
"Still on Overwatch. Your turn."
"Ditto. Back to you."
"Still watchin' over y'all!"
"Me too."

Uhh...

 aracersss wrote:
I will just leave this ...
http://imgur.com/a/heMlh

Shotguns don't have a blast option any more?

There's no reason to shoot anything but slugs then...

Pick missions where you have to do stuff. Make the bugger move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 aracersss wrote:
I will just leave this ...
http://imgur.com/a/heMlh

Shotguns don't have a blast option any more?

There's no reason to shoot anything but slugs then...

Not if they removed 'Ignores Cover To Hit modifier' on Scatter shot. Damn. That was a classic odds-evening technique. Trade stopping power for ignoring cover and having a chance of making the shot. Removing the blast and making it base-contact-only splash damage happened a while back, if that's gone no biggie.

So now it's S4 / -1 save, or S5 / -- VERY SAD!

I do hope the Imperial Guard veterans also have access to the shotgun. Probably not, but one can hope.

 Elbows wrote:

Terminators did not have invulnerable saves in addition to their 3+(2D6) save unless they were characters with a field purchased (and you roll fields before armour, because that's what an attack would hit first).

Ahh you're right. Apologies I think I had also read the Ork Mega-armor rules which was 2+(on 1D6) but had the additional save.

That's got to be a mis-print, OR you get to keep using your remaining alternate ammo. As it stands there is zero reason you'd ever shoot scatter-shot ammo in place of slugs. That's just silly.

If it's like the original rules, scattershot should have the general rule of ignoring cover or models trying to hide.

 BrookM wrote:
If it's like the original rules, scattershot should have the general rule of ignoring cover or models trying to hide.

Pretty much this.

Also, Scatter Shot, according to WD, use the small blast template. So if there's a bunch of goons teetering on a walk way, could be a cunning way to give them all a flying lesson.

Correct, or that silly little 1" blast, but it definitely doesn't have that listed which I suspect is a misprint.

After glancing at the entire weapons sheet...the vast majority of the weapons differ immensely from the 2nd ed. ones (namely in wounds inflicted and save modifiers, etc.). Also they list Terminator armour as having a 3+(2D6) save and THEN a 5+ invulnerable. This, coupled with the max -3 save modifier on most weapons (outside of demo charges) makes Terminators insanely strong/tough.

Also reinforces my dislike when GW felt the need to make every race armed with different weapons with different stats. It added very little to the game. I look at the weapons list and simply think "well, why not just arm Orks with bolters etc. again...much easier".

I'm leaning more and more toward not picking this up. I have all the 2nd ed. books and the Necromunda rulebooks so I could just bash this into my own version if I really wanted to.

 Elbows wrote:
Correct, or that silly little 1" blast, but it definitely doesn't have that listed which I suspect is a misprint.

After glancing at the entire weapons sheet...the vast majority of the weapons differ immensely from the 2nd ed. ones (namely in wounds inflicted and save modifiers, etc.). Also they list Terminator armour as having a 3+(2D6) save and THEN a 5+ invulnerable. This, coupled with the max -3 save modifier on most weapons (outside of demo charges) makes Terminators insanely strong/tough.

Also reinforces my dislike when GW felt the need to make every race armed with different weapons with different stats. It added very little to the game. I look at the weapons list and simply think "well, why not just arm Orks with bolters etc. again...much easier".

I'm leaning more and more toward not picking this up. I have all the 2nd ed. books and the Necromunda rulebooks so I could just bash this into my own version if I really wanted to.

In fairness the Frag Missile doesn't mention the Blast Template either so presumably the Quick Reference sheets aren't the whole picture.

I will say also that the 5+ Invul save on the Terminator armor isn't confirmed to be taken in addition to your 3+ on 2D6 armor save. I mean it's logical given it'd be nigh impossible to negate that completely (Anything go up to -10?) but still the rules could be different. Plus I doubt it'll be a Squad of Terminators, more than likely a single Terminator model backing up the Scouts.

The main draw with shadow wars is fresh blood, if you've already got a committed gaming group that's great, however from personal experience trying to get people to play 2nd ed or Nercomunda is futile, zero interest.

Chances of this running in the local store.. slim to nil. I'm getting two boxes and that may be the extent of the sales with regards to this release.

I dont get why they don't just switch out the bs value to a die roll needed like in lotr or aos. Bs values are just unnecessarily clunky.
Also, the bottle test: Why, why, why? I've lost kill team matches to that rule (break test) and it wasnt fun for any of us. The worst one was where I'd shot out all except one of an opponents' kill team and I had lost one of my eight Chaos chosen. My opponent gets off a lucky shot that kills another of my chosen. I of course roll a twelve on my break test and immediately lose the game. We both agree it's bs as I had the opponents' last model (a Chaos raptor iirc) surrounded and in range of my entire kill team. I end up unhappy because I lost to a single illogical die roll and my opponent was unhappy because he had no sense of achievement for his victory.

 aracersss wrote:
I will just leave this ...
http://imgur.com/a/heMlh

Someone already left that on the previous page.

Looks like the weapons stats have been modified to make them more in line with current 40k. Not sure how removing the save mod from a lasgun is "dumbing down", but each to their own.

Shotgun looks a bit odd (Underhive also got rid of the blast template for scatter shells - reduced it to affecting anyone in b2b with the target, which was the same thing, in practice), but it could be that shotguns don't come with both shell types any more. Perhaps you need to buy solid slugs at additional cost.

flak armour appears to be useful against blastshot shells, lasguns and frag grenades - seems about right. I assume the chainsword now has a -2 save mod to make it more effective compared to a regular close combat weapon. In 2nd edition 40k / necromunda, it was S4, -1 sv, which meant in the hands of a Space Marine, a chainsword was no more effective than a sword. Not so much of a problem in Necromunda where most people would be S3 with a normal sword, but here where one faction is made up of S4 Marine Scouts, the change is worthwhile.

Even if this turns out to be a dud (which I doubt), I'll now have a good handle on how units and weapons introduced since 1997 should be statted up in 2nd edition.

Messiah wrote:
I dont get why they don't just switch out the bs value to a die roll needed like in lotr or aos. Bs values are just unnecessarily clunky.

8th says hello from the future. Probably.

I think the real reason behind a bottle or courage test is to keep the game from turning into one or two remaining figures on Overwatch hiding in a corner etc. When you play Necromunda you can expect to get through two, three, or even four games in a single 3-4 hour evening sometimes. It's just a rapid fire game.

You shouldn't get too twisted up about bottling. You just roll your post-game effects and get to the next game. I can see the angst in that if you're doing something like a tournament or competitive play - but in old Necromunda sometimes it was beneficial for someone to bottle so you could try to get some guys healed up, or recovered, or advance some of your characters (not uncommon for someone to voluntarily bottle if things were doing bad).

Having a persistent gang/group/warband introduces a new factor to the casual wargame. You have a vested interest in certain figures/models/characters and there's not benefit to going out guns blazing and actually losing half of your gang in a violent gunfight. Discretion being the better part of valour and some such. It made sense to voluntarily bottle out of a game you were losing badly. Much as you would in a real engagement - don't push a bad angle and get yourself in more trouble.

I would really love to see some vehicle rules in a future White Dwarf for SW: Armageddon. Just for the ability to create some fun scenarios using what is in some of the Start Collecting boxes.

Messiah wrote:
I dont get why they don't just switch out the bs value to a die roll needed like in lotr or aos. Bs values are just unnecessarily clunky.
Also, the bottle test: Why, why, why? I've lost kill team matches to that rule (break test) and it wasnt fun for any of us. The worst one was where I'd shot out all except one of an opponents' kill team and I had lost one of my eight Chaos chosen. My opponent gets off a lucky shot that kills another of my chosen. I of course roll a twelve on my break test and immediately lose the game. We both agree it's bs as I had the opponents' last model (a Chaos raptor iirc) surrounded and in range of my entire kill team. I end up unhappy because I lost to a single illogical die roll and my opponent was unhappy because he had no sense of achievement for his victory.

Whilst bottle tests were not ideal, the sort of situation you describe above is not necessarily unrealistic. There are plenty of times in military history where a small force has scared a much large force into believing they are actually outnumbered. What you know as a player is very different to what your models would know.

I'd rather botch a bottle test than lose most of my team in a protracted fight.

edit: nvm

After taking a close look at the big diorama, and assuming that GW oil barrels are 1" tall, I'm guessing that the stacked levels are 5" tall.

T

Probably 6"; twice the height of a ruined building wall tile.

 flakpanzer wrote:
I would really love to see some vehicle rules in a future White Dwarf for SW: Armageddon. Just for the ability to create some fun scenarios using what is in some of the Start Collecting boxes.

That's a really good idea and shouldn't actually be too hard to do on your own, just maybe leave the Leman Russ battle cannon out of it

Yeah no, all or nothing!

So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

If the weapon doesn't have a basic rend value, you use the rend value from your strength.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

Because based on your Strength, you will likely have a better Armour Save Mod then a set one.

A S4 Space Marine will be S8 with the Thunder Hammer and S8 is equal to a -5 armor save modifier. If an S3 Inquisitor had one he'd be S7 with a -4. A Power Fist has base -3 so the Strength of the user doesn't get taken into account.

the_scotsman wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

If the weapon doesn't have a basic rend value, you use the rend value from your strength.

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

Because based on your Strength, you will likely have a better Armour Save Mod then a set one.

A S4 Space Marine will be S8 with the Thunder Hammer and S8 is equal to a -5 armor save modifier. If an S3 Inquisitor had one he'd be S7 with a -4. A Power Fist has base -3 so the Strength of the user doesn't get taken into account.

Oh ok, makes sense.

Any word on when pre-orders go up for Shadow War?

Manchu wrote:
Any word on when pre-orders go up for Shadow War?

This weekend I think.

Manchu wrote:
Any word on when pre-orders go up for Shadow War?

April 1st. The rules for the factions not in the rule book are also supposed to go up at that time as well. Nice to have a week to get factions put together before the game is released.

timd wrote:
After taking a close look at the big diorama, and assuming that GW oil barrels are 1" tall, I'm guessing that the stacked levels are 5" tall.

T

You're correct. There's a boxed off part of the battle report where it talks about a Guardsman falling of a platform after being shot at and takes a Str5 hit (a point of strength for every inch fallen). My WD showed up

It's a shame they didn't make this scenery more in line with the Sector Imperialis kits and made the height 6", could have led to much more cross compatibility across the ranges.

LordShaft.

Sorry , does anyone know where I can find the gsc and skitarii rules that were posted online?

In April White Dwarf, available on Friday/Saturday

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Sorry , does anyone know where I can find the gsc and skitarii rules that were posted online?

Spanish linku http://www.miniwars.eu/2017/03/imagenes-white-dwarf-abril.html

Can't say I like the -2 ASM on the Chainsword. One of the most dramatic differences between 2nd and 3rd for anyone who was around for that transition was the notion that Marines got to actually take their 3+ saves. I remember being so shocked during my first 3rd Ed demo game at that. Marines in 2nd Ed never got to take a 3+ save. It was usually 4+ because -1 save mods were everywhere (even Lasguns had 'em). Chainswords were -1 as well... now they're -2? That seems too high.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Oh ok, makes sense.

Or it's riddled with typos, like the "Squid" armour.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Oh ok, makes sense.

Or it's riddled with typos, like the "Squid" armour.

Are you telling me you don't model your Orks in Squid armor?

Does anybody know how tall a grot is?

Stupid friend and his stupid gretchin...

I think they count as small targets.

 flakpanzer wrote:
I would really love to see some vehicle rules in a future White Dwarf for SW: Armageddon. Just for the ability to create some fun scenarios using what is in some of the Start Collecting boxes.

Trust me, you don't. If I recall the reason why the rules work is that you have to buy the crew to drive the vehicles, and when you shoot at vheciles you have a crazy charts to roll on, and each vehcile has it's own charts.

Like. 1st you roll were the shot hits, then you got to roll if it pens, then you have to roll what the shot did on a chart based on the location. You got all this crazy stuff were you could end up killing the driver for example, so someone eals needs to jump into the driver seat for example. OR the vehicle could become disabled, and you have all the crew jump out.

I never played 2nd ed, but I did play necromunda. People refused to use the necromunda vehicle rules because of how much they could bog the game down, and was also the reason not alot of people wanted to play Gorka Morka. Out group loved the Ash waste senrios, but would refuse to use the vheciles and gangs.

Sounds like 2nd Ed vehicle rules to me. Those were great.

They were OK if you had one vehicle. If you had a bike squad, they were horrible.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sounds like 2nd Ed vehicle rules to me. Those were great.

Well Necro vehicle rules were just imported from Gorkamorka

If you want to check out the Necromunda rules, a quick google will bring up the Ash Wastes supplement.
Wasn't sure if it was against forum rules to directly link to docs that GW used to give away for free but no longer do.
They use more generic damage charts based on vehicle type.

Otherwise, Yaktribegaming.org has all the rules available (original, living and community)

Yaktribe.org is the link. Great site.

You can also internet archive the old specialist games website for all the fanatic magazine articles. This is the Ash Waste rules version you want (FO93) as it's been updated with slightly better rules, including scimmer bikes.
Looking at the vehicle rules you would only need to modify a few things to port to Shadow War, allow bikes to take fixed weapons, add turret/pintle mounts and simplify the permanent vehicle damage table to remove captured vehicles.
Maybe add some kind of speed boost component for Elder Skimmers.

We streamlined the rules and used 2d edition 40K back in the day when we started having too many issues with GW's Gorkamorka set. That little issue on using the military vehicles, as opposed to scratch scrap ones. Data cards were easy peasy. Just add skill sets. and combat took care of itself.

Short of large vehicle squadrons, the vehicle rules in 2nd were fine. I'm not entirely sure how lazy one has to be to flip a card over and read off a chart.

2nd ed. rarely featured large vehicle squadrons...and even then the bike chart was super simple (though you hoped it hit your rider if you were a Space Marine as his power armour was normally better than the bike's armour).

 Elbows wrote:
A Chainsword in 2nd ed. had a -1 armour save modifier. The most powerful armour save modifier was -6, which still gave Terminators a chance of ignoring it (effectively representing an invulnerable save). 9+ on 2D6 was tough but it happened.

Terminators did not have invulnerable saves in addition to their 3+(2D6) save unless they were characters with a field purchased (and you roll fields before armour, because that's what an attack would hit first).

Lasguns did have a -1 save modifier etc. Also the ranges are mostly whacky on all of the weapons in the SWA stuff listed. So, while the rules look very similar to Necromunda, a lot has changed (and I suspect these weapon profiles will be very indicative of 8th ed.) Overall, pretty disappointed with the dumbing down of another reborn product. it was quite expected, but it's sad that they didn't bother pushing deeper into the mechanics.

I remember that most weapons that had a high minus save modifier also did more damage per succesfull hit, D3, D6, D8 or 2D6 damage, that's why even a terminator didn't survive a successful hit from a lascannon in 2nd Ed.
But my memory is blurry on that.

Some more info for kill teams from Reddit:
Space Marines: Uses Scouts as Core, SpecOps are; Space Marine, Deathwatch marine, Apothecary and Terminator.
No Tactical troops as core. Chapter sub-factions are there, works basically the same as original gangs in Necromunda with skill table variations. Salamanders is one of the sub-factions.
Chaos: CSM for leader and core. Can also take Cultists as troopers only. SpecOps: Terminator, Raptor and Spawn.
Eldar: Dire Avengers for core, Gaurdians as Troopers only. SpecOps: Autarch, Wraithblade, Wraithguard.
Tau: Pathfinders and drones. SpecOps: Fire Blade, Stealthsuit, Ethereal.
No Inquisition or Demons on initial release :(

Autarch??? That seems a bit high and mighty for a low level skirmish.

And what about Railgun Drones? They seem perfect for... oh wait not in plastic.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They were OK if you had one vehicle. If you had a bike squad, they were horrible.

By "horrible" you mean "awesome" right? Every time I had a bike or Jetbike squadron they did more damage to themselves. Take out one and it will hit another, which hits another until the whole unit falls over itself and explodes.

Not useful, but fething funny.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They were OK if you had one vehicle. If you had a bike squad, they were horrible.

By "horrible" you mean "awesome" right? Every time I had a bike or Jetbike squadron they did more damage to themselves. Take out one and it will hit another, which hits another until the whole unit falls over itself and explodes.

Not useful, but fething funny.

Towards the end of 2nd edition, we mostly used bike squads as semi-guided missiles: accelerate from combat speed to fast, point at the enemy, maybe make a skid turn to finalise the alignment. Then have the whole squad bail out; sure there was a slight chance of the bikes going off course after that, but the guaranteed penetrating hits from the crash would almost certainly trigger the "explosion" result on the table and who cares about aim when you're throwing 6" radius blasts at an Ork horde? There was even a small chance some of the riders would survive and you'd then have a squad on the enemy's fron door, that wold need to be dealt with first.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

By "horrible" you mean "awesome" right? Every time I had a bike or Jetbike squadron they did more damage to themselves. Take out one and it will hit another, which hits another until the whole unit falls over itself and explodes.

Not useful, but fething funny.

I use to love hitting rhinos in their tracks, and having them flip on to entire squads =D

 BrookM wrote:
Yeah no, all or nothing!

Star by googling "<vehicle name> Datafax"

I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't use this opportunity with armor save modifiers to tweak the balance (or, rather, it seems like they tweaked it further against armor being any good). I'd really like to see something where we dropped the whole "1s always fail" idea, and went with a system where, yes, certain weapons were actually useless against good armor.

Instead of keeping the mystical 3+ armor save for marines, give Power Armor a 1+ save. Unless you have an armor modifier, NOTHING gets through it. A guardsman with a knife has no chance. Give Terminators 0+ saves. Unless you have a -2 modifier, NOTHING gets through. If we are going to have individual cultists fighting lone Terminators, we don't need a Terminator going down to a lucky prat with a knife.

I was also hoping to see a little more flat armor save modifiers, rather than stuff going up to -6 so readily. If you can distinguish weapons with more variables (half range, long and short range modifiers to hit, armor save mods, and multiple wounds, then stuff doesn't need to be so able to penetrate armor.

I like it, and I'm excited to play it, but I think it could have been a lot more exciting and novel than this.

A good 50% of the weapons don't have any save modifiers at all, though high str figures in close combat would have some, this seems restricted to Space Marine level and above.
Most of the high save mods are restricted to Heavy/Specialist weapons or Special operatives, that means 2-4 at most on the battlefield, I don't see it being to much of an issue.

GodDamUser wrote:
I use to love hitting rhinos in their tracks, and having them flip on to entire squads =D

When I did the vehicle rules for Only War I made sure that one of the higher results on the "vehicle motive systems" damage chart was the "vehicle flips" rule from 2nd Ed. Couldn't resist!

Those old rules created such silly situations. I once had a Basilisk (which could fire twice a turn back then), hit a Land Raider with one shot, killing 5 Assault Marines in the blast and flipping the Land Raider onto a Marine with a Missile Launcher. The other shot scattered onto a Land Speeder, which promptly went out of control, flew into a Dreadnought, which exploded, taking out the other Land Speeder, which went out of control as well, crashing into and killing a Tech-Marine. Best shot ever!

 Dravis wrote:
Some more info for kill teams from Reddit:
Space Marines: Uses Scouts as Core, SpecOps are; Space Marine, Deathwatch marine, Apothecary and Terminator.
No Tactical troops as core. Chapter sub-factions are there, works basically the same as original gangs in Necromunda with skill table variations. Salamanders is one of the sub-factions.
Chaos: CSM for leader and core. Can also take Cultists as troopers only. SpecOps: Terminator, Raptor and Spawn.
Eldar: Dire Avengers for core, Gaurdians as Troopers only. SpecOps: Autarch, Wraithblade, Wraithguard.
Tau: Pathfinders and drones. SpecOps: Fire Blade, Stealthsuit, Ethereal.
No Inquisition or Demons on initial release :(

Do you have a link to that? It's significantly less than 12 factions there, so missing Tyranids, Necrons, and that still leaves 2 more factions after you also account for IG, Ad Mech, GSC. What else is left assuming Inquisition and Daemons aren't included?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/622djw/shadow_war_armageddon_from_white_dwarf_april/

It wasn't a full list of kill teams, just some examples, presumably from one of the store promo packs.
The other two factions you're missing are Dark Eldar and Grey Knights.

Da Butcha wrote:
I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't use this opportunity with armor save modifiers to tweak the balance (or, rather, it seems like they tweaked it further against armor being any good). I'd really like to see something where we dropped the whole "1s always fail" idea, and went with a system where, yes, certain weapons were actually useless against good armor.

Instead of keeping the mystical 3+ armor save for marines, give Power Armor a 1+ save. Unless you have an armor modifier, NOTHING gets through it. A guardsman with a knife has no chance. Give Terminators 0+ saves. Unless you have a -2 modifier, NOTHING gets through. If we are going to have individual cultists fighting lone Terminators, we don't need a Terminator going down to a lucky prat with a knife.

Because as a game mechanic that would suck. Pick off the couple special weapons that can actually hurt marines then laugh as your opponent simply can't do anything but run for the remainder of the game if they didn't spec out specifically to deal with it. Keep in mind that power armor is only available to two factions, as well, so you can't argue that every list should always max out their marine killing weapons.

Sisters of Battle, Harlequins and Dark Eldar?

Looks like this initial release is for plastic kits only, hence why the Eldar don't have any of the other aspects.
Hopefully more kill team rules for metal lines will come later.

what a joke that aspect warriors are still not in plastic

A thought I had is that if Shadow Wars is as successful as Warhammer Quest and they release further box sets this might be the impetus for GW to update some of their old Troops/Elite squads. Maybe just wishful thinking.

 Dravis wrote:
A thought I had is that if Shadow Wars is as successful as Warhammer Quest and they release further box sets this might be the impetus for GW to update some of their old Troops/Elite squads. Maybe just wishful thinking.

If there are further boxes, it'll probably some more new terrain and something boring like Eldar Guardians vs Cadian guardsmen... I hate saying it but as much as this is about cool new terrain it's also about trying to sell those kits fewer people have continued buying if not stopped buying.

Going to be running this at my local gaming club.

Reckon we'll start with it 'as is', and see how we find it over two or three weeks.

If we find ourselves wanting the more interesting injury chart, or the old XP system, it should be easy enough to implement. There's are least me that's still got Gorkamorka and Necromunda books knocking around

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Sorry , does anyone know where I can find the gsc and skitarii rules that were posted online?

I misunderstood your question, sorry, would have provided a link

Imperial Guard specialists are the Commissar, Tempestus Scion, Techpriest Enginseer and the Ogryn.

Orks have the Pain Dok Big Mek and Flash Git as their specialists.

Do the rules make you arm the minis with what the models come with, or can you get "illegal" (from a 40K perspective) weapons?

 aka_mythos wrote:
If there are further boxes, it'll probably some more new terrain and something boring like Eldar Guardians vs Cadian guardsmen... I hate saying it but as much as this is about cool new terrain it's also about trying to sell those kits fewer people have continued buying if not stopped buying.

They've got to do battle of the Cults! 10 Genestealer Hybrids vs 10 Chaos Cultists!

Judging from the Skitarii list, they're limited to what's in the box, which makes me worry that the Imperial Guard veterans will only have lasguns and not shotguns.

Better start hoping they come with Meltaguns and Plasmaguns, there not in plastic either. The Specialist might be down to flamer and GL.

They are in the command squad though

Oh yeah, forgot about those, thats good.
Still only lasguns for basic troopers would be a bit boring.

Anyone have any idea if IG Heavy Weapons teams are useable? It would seem odd if IG couldnt access heavy weapons but HW teams are two models not one? Not sure how they would fit?

If they do have any it would only be heavy bolter and missile launcher because those are the only ones listed on the weapons summery sheet, suspect they are for scouts only.
Actually comparing the weapon sheet to the Cadian command squad it looks like all the weapons listed in it will part of the kill team.

 Dravis wrote:
Better start hoping they come with Meltaguns and Plasmaguns, there not in plastic either. The Specialist might be down to flamer and GL.

They are in the command set though

I can't wait to know more about the necrons and dark eldar! Hopefully the beastmaster is available (and a spyder making swarms would also be awesome, but probably OP ;P)

 Dravis wrote:
Better start hoping they come with Meltaguns and Plasmaguns, there not in plastic either. The Specialist might be down to flamer and GL.

WD Battle Report has a Cadian Guardsman with a Plasma Gun.

Yeah I had a momentary panic there, but I can see now they've basically combined a command squad and an infantry squad for the kill team.

We do know the Dark Eldar get Scourge and Haemonculi, likely as special operatives.

No info on Necrons, but seeing as other sets have been combined, maybe an Immortal leading Warriors with Scarabs as cheap filler? Or the Immortal is a Special Operative.

 Dravis wrote:
Yeah I had a momentary panic there, but I can see now they've basically combined a command squad and an infantry squad for the kill team.

We do know the Dark Eldar get Scourge and Haemonculi, likely as special operatives.

No info on Necrons, but seeing as other sets have been combined, maybe an Immortal leading Warriors with Scarabs as cheap filler? Or the Immortal is a Special Operative.

If I had to guess:
Leader: Immortal, possibly the cheap lord dude
Specialist: immortals, Deathmarks, flayed one
Core: Warrior, possibly flayed one
special operatives: Praetorian, lychguard, destroyer

But i'm just guessing unfortunately

Any info on what the Tyranid Warrior can also take? Guessing not genestealers

No one knows, and it's what, two days til it's all up for download? ;-)

Only the Shadow knows.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Anyone have any idea if IG Heavy Weapons teams are useable? It would seem odd if IG couldnt access heavy weapons but HW teams are two models not one? Not sure how they would fit?

Well you're going to have a scout heavy bolter and missile launcher in the Box set that should be easily added to a guardsmen model, so there's that. Hopefully they'll have heavy stubber for guard as well and there's plenty of heavy stubber bits available too. Lascannon and autocannon would be trickier since not many scale well for Guard to carry.

They'll probably give the Imperial Guard a special rule so they can take a weapons team instead of a single guy. Conversions are verboten after all.

Not really sure where this nonsense idea is coming from, given the amount of conversions that GW are officially showing off / giving guides to do all over the place :/

Why on Terra would they give Guard a Heavy Stubber???

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
I use to love hitting rhinos in their tracks, and having them flip on to entire squads =D

When I did the vehicle rules for Only War I made sure that one of the higher results on the "vehicle motive systems" damage chart was the "vehicle flips" rule from 2nd Ed. Couldn't resist!

Those old rules created such silly situations. I once had a Basilisk (which could fire twice a turn back then), hit a Land Raider with one shot, killing 5 Assault Marines in the blast and flipping the Land Raider onto a Marine with a Missile Launcher. The other shot scattered onto a Land Speeder, which promptly went out of control, flew into a Dreadnought, which exploded, taking out the other Land Speeder, which went out of control as well, crashing into and killing a Tech-Marine. Best shot ever!

And that sums up exactly why I loved 2nd Edition.

I will say that it's pretty massive weak sauce if they're limiting rules to plastic kits only. I'd imagine that will change, but that's sorry stuff.

Again if anyone is interesting in fleshing this out - might as well just buy 2nd ed. codices and use ALL the things.

Well, the rules are a framework for a lot of stuff you could add.

We've presumably got the rules for choppas, sluggas, rokkit launchas, jump packs from the assault marine rules, and burnas are the same as flamers.

You could easily add burna boyz, kommandos, Tankbustas and Stormboyz as alternate models for the ork specialists, just have to come up with approximate point costs.

Now, for those dark eldar rules... seems that Scourges and Haemonculi are specialists, Ok... I'm really hoping for a Helion personally for the third. Kabalite/Wych troops, and those three for specialists would leave me a happy man.

Also, in the "kits you can use" lineup, weren't Harlequin Troupes on there? Reckon we'll see Harlequins as a faction, or just as one of the specialists for DE? You'd only have 2 specialists though, unless they included rules for a Solitaire as a specialist O.O maybe a watered down version of the solitaire?

Genestealers in the WD seem pretty fun and stick to the fluff as everyone gets to start in hiding when first deployed, and if anyone else has seem them the webbers look pretty cheesy and fun. But a question for all of you, it states that if a member of the cult has three arms with all hand-to-hand weapons they get +1 to combat values, but it doesn't state where it's limited too. So modelling wise could I model some Neophytes to have the third arm to get the bonus?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Why on Terra would they give Guard a Heavy Stubber???

Some Guard and PDF regiments use them.

stewe128 wrote:
Genestealers in the WD seem pretty fun and stick to the fluff as everyone gets to start in hiding when first deployed, and if anyone else has seem them the webbers look pretty cheesy and fun. But a question for all of you, it states that if a member of the cult has three arms with all hand-to-hand weapons they get +1 to combat values, but it doesn't state where it's limited too. So modelling wise could I model some Neophytes to have the third arm to get the bonus?

You could, except it would then be an Acolyte by strict background interpretation. And you'd be modelling for advantage (as would using Ratlings in place of 'counts as' Guardsman to make them far harder to spot)

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

stewe128 wrote:
Genestealers in the WD seem pretty fun and stick to the fluff as everyone gets to start in hiding when first deployed, and if anyone else has seem them the webbers look pretty cheesy and fun. But a question for all of you, it states that if a member of the cult has three arms with all hand-to-hand weapons they get +1 to combat values, but it doesn't state where it's limited too. So modelling wise could I model some Neophytes to have the third arm to get the bonus?

You could, except it would then be an Acolyte by strict background interpretation. And you'd be modelling for advantage (as would using Ratlings in place of 'counts as' Guardsman to make them far harder to spot)

Yeah that's true, not worth it. Maybe that rule was meant for the spec ops.

I presumed it was talking about the hired gun type guys with 3 arms

It will suck if you can't have normal power armoured marines as your basic team. All scouts is boring, I want a mix. It doesn't make any sense to limit the PA guys, considering that chaos has them.

And there's better be an inquisition team.

 Crimson wrote:
It will suck if you can't have normal power armoured marines as your basic team. All scouts is boring, I want a mix. It doesn't make any sense to limit the PA guys, considering that chaos has them.

And there's better be an inquisition team.

It sucks, but it's smart. Gives marines a little respect that they're spec ops rather than the standard meatshield like 7e.

Especially if the Chaos Marines are only spec ops in the cultist list rather than a list to themselves

Man, if Necron have access to all the bits the Praetorians and Immortals come with, I think I'm going to be putting a lot of spare bits to use.

Especially if the warriors themselves are allowed any variance in their weaponry rather than only the specops getting to use the fun stuff.

 Dravis wrote:
Some more info for kill teams from Reddit:
Space Marines: Uses Scouts as Core, SpecOps are; Space Marine, Deathwatch marine, Apothecary and Terminator.
No Tactical troops as core. Chapter sub-factions are there, works basically the same as original gangs in Necromunda with skill table variations. Salamanders is one of the sub-factions.
Chaos: CSM for leader and core. Can also take Cultists as troopers only. SpecOps: Terminator, Raptor and Spawn.
Eldar: Dire Avengers for core, Gaurdians as Troopers only. SpecOps: Autarch, Wraithblade, Wraithguard.
Tau: Pathfinders and drones. SpecOps: Fire Blade, Stealthsuit, Ethereal.
No Inquisition or Demons on initial release :(

Are they really saying that Tau aren't allowed to take Fire Warriors at all, but are able to take a Fire Blade? That seems weird to me, as does the fact that everyone else seems to be able to take something fairly big and scary; Terminators, Wraithguard, Tyranid Warriors, while Tau aren't allowed to take Crisis Suits. I mean, they already seem like they're at a disadvantage in a game that's such close quarters, it seems odd that they are restricted to mostly support units. The most frightening thing there is a Steathsuit... I was actually looking forward to having a use for the Breacher Team by putting them in a setting they seem downright designed for.

Instead I find myself hoping that the Pathfinders aren't going to be charged for their markerlights in this game. Otherwise they're just more expensive, more fragile Fire Warriors with the ability to waste a turn failing to hit a target with a markerlight, while the Drones are better in every way.

 Shaft, Lord of Slaanesh wrote:

timd wrote:
After taking a close look at the big diorama, and assuming that GW oil barrels are 1" tall, I'm guessing that the stacked levels are 5" tall.

T

You're correct. There's a boxed off part of the battle report where it talks about a Guardsman falling of a platform after being shot at and takes a Str5 hit (a point of strength for every inch fallen). My WD showed up

It's a shame they didn't make this scenery more in line with the Sector Imperialis kits and made the height 6", could have led to much more cross compatibility across the ranges.

Looking at this pic, it could be 6". Note the segments on the stanchion; six of them, each about the height of the hunched over GSC fig.

Just finished reading the battle report in WD, great little piece and made me quite hyped for the game. Something about reading a small-scale battle with 40k models using the Necromunda rules... it's basically official Inquisimunda (although ironically without the actual Inquisition so far).

Just FYI, we have rules for Eldar and Dark Eldar in our blog

http://www.lavozdehorus.com/reglas-eldar-shadow-war-armageddon/
http://www.lavozdehorus.com/reglas-eldar-oscuros/

The blog and podcast are in Spanish, but the leaks are all English text pics.

Cheers!

I have to say that my enthusiasm for this game wanes as we learn more. To me the main selling point for this over the Killteam was that you could buy models as individuals instead of squads, and thus I hoped that it would be possible to create more varied and interesting teams. However, it seems that most teams are basically composed of contents of one 40K unit, marines are all scouts, DE are all wyches, Tau are all pathfinders, etc. Furthermore, there really doesn't seem to be much options to even equip these models weird and interesting ways.

 Crimson wrote:
I have to say that my enthusiasm for this game wanes as we learn more. To me the main selling point for this over the Killteam was that you could buy models as individuals instead of squads, and thus I hoped that it would be possible to create more varied and interesting teams. However, it seems that most teams are basically composed of contents of one 40K unit, marines are all scouts, DE are all wyches, Tau are all pathfinders, etc. Furthermore, there really doesn't seem to be much options to even equip these models weird and interesting ways.

What do you mean? The WD for skitarii and cult have a lot of flavor for their equipment and rules.

stewe128 wrote:

What do you mean? The WD for skitarii and cult have a lot of flavor for their equipment and rules.

Really? Pretty much the only non-standard option is that you can give the Rangers rad-carbines (basically making them Vanguard.)

 Crimson wrote:
I have to say that my enthusiasm for this game wanes as we learn more. To me the main selling point for this over the Killteam was that you could buy models as individuals instead of squads, and thus I hoped that it would be possible to create more varied and interesting teams. However, it seems that most teams are basically composed of contents of one 40K unit, marines are all scouts, DE are all wyches, Tau are all pathfinders, etc. Furthermore, there really doesn't seem to be much options to even equip these models weird and interesting ways.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I was expecting a open-ended game that encouraged crazy conversions. This is really just another way to use your box-standard™ Games Workshop Miniatures.
Really, the most interesting thing done is allowing Skitarii Rangers to have radium carbines.

That's what it seems GW is all about these days though.. Not just 40k and fantasy it's more like "collect our minis and play these games with them."

But it's just the beginning, I think if it's popular over time we'll start seeing lots more opportunities for conversions and chances to use those not-40k minis other folks have been making lately too

 Crimson wrote:

stewe128 wrote:

What do you mean? The WD for skitarii and cult have a lot of flavor for their equipment and rules.

Really? Pretty much the only non-standard option is that you can give the Rangers rad-carbines (basically making them Vanguard.)

Yeah, true. Hopefully the upgrades and whatever the charts mean at the end of the lists provide some sort of creativity.

With a few games under the belt it shouldn't be too hard to implement some house rules with custom upgrades or the like.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I have to say that my enthusiasm for this game wanes as we learn more. To me the main selling point for this over the Killteam was that you could buy models as individuals instead of squads, and thus I hoped that it would be possible to create more varied and interesting teams. However, it seems that most teams are basically composed of contents of one 40K unit, marines are all scouts, DE are all wyches, Tau are all pathfinders, etc. Furthermore, there really doesn't seem to be much options to even equip these models weird and interesting ways.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I was expecting a open-ended game that encouraged crazy conversions. This is really just another way to use your box-standard™ Games Workshop Miniatures.
Really, the most interesting thing done is allowing Skitarii Rangers to have radium carbines.

How hard could it really be to add your own units and just play however you want to? Seems like it'd be easy to add things like DE Helions, Kabalite Warriors/Trueborn, Electropriests, the various boy and nob-based orky units, and others with minimal effort. Hardest part would be coming up with weapons rules, and we have a large variety already fleshed out for us. Stuff like Burna Boyz, Tankbustas, etc would just be free to put in because we already have all the rules for their weapons.

I mean, you want to make say Striking Scorpions. Look at the point cost between a Scout Marine and a Tactical Marine for the cost of power armor over 4+, buy them a Chainsword, Mandiblaster, and Shuriken Pistol standard, we should have point costs for all of those. Done! New Eldar specialist. Same deal for making a Swooping Hawk. Fire Dragon is a Stirking Scorpion with a Melta instead of scorpion gear.

Because nobody accepts homebrew units or rules. I shouldn't have to negotiate and plead to use something that should be in the game to begin with.

 BrookM wrote:
With a few games under the belt it shouldn't be too hard to implement some house rules with custom upgrades or the like.

the_scotsman wrote:

How hard could it really be to add your own units and just play however you want to? Seems like it'd be easy to add things like DE Helions, Kabalite Warriors/Trueborn, Electropriests, the various boy and nob-based orky units, and others with minimal effort. Hardest part would be coming up with weapons rules, and we have a large variety already fleshed out for us. Stuff like Burna Boyz, Tankbustas, etc would just be free to put in because we already have all the rules for their weapons.

I mean, you want to make say Striking Scorpions. Look at the point cost between a Scout Marine and a Tactical Marine for the cost of power armor over 4+, buy them a Chainsword, Mandiblaster, and Shuriken Pistol standard, we should have point costs for all of those. Done! New Eldar specialist. Same deal for making a Swooping Hawk. Fire Dragon is a Stirking Scorpion with a Melta instead of scorpion gear.

Sure. Of course you can do this. There is whole Inquisimunda community full of people who do just that. But I was hoping for official rules. I can already download fan made rules for free, so why would I pay for an inferior product?

Honestly if they make more to this I would enjoy such an idea.

But for me the biggest draw is playing people without needing a million things to start it up. One box of troops and you're good to go is a big selling point to get people to start 40k.

 Verviedi wrote:
Because nobody accepts homebrew units or rules. I shouldn't have to negotiate and plead to use something that should be in the game to begin with.

That's kind of odd. In the group I'm playing with, we've already added a bunch of units for the factions we've already seen. This isn't base 40k, where you're going to be playing lots of pickup games with strangers, it's a campaign-style Necromunda/Killteam game. The most popular rules for Killteam are already ENTIRELY homebrew.

The biggest lingering question I have is Special Operatives: Where are their points costs? How do you build them into your gang, and how many can you have? Obviously a Scourge is not going to be anywhere near as powerful as a Haemonculus or Succubus, so I'm assuming they have costs...

Also, if we're looking at the stuff they're adding - the wych rules do seem to have rules for all the equipment that comes in the box but doesn't have rules. Special pistol ammo, poisoned knives, mirrormask, chain flail, all that stuff doesn't have rules in basic 40k.

Anybody know what the ork list is like?

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Anybody know what the ork list is like?

We've seen their equipment in the quick reference. Looks like Ork boyz, gretchins, Nob leader, and Mek, Flash Git, and maybe Runtherd as specialists? Grabba stikk and squig hound are in there.

If your group allows for homebrew units, there's rules enough to put in almost all basic boyz and nobz based special ork units in.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Because nobody accepts homebrew units or rules. I shouldn't have to negotiate and plead to use something that should be in the game to begin with.

That's kind of odd. In the group I'm playing with, we've already added a bunch of units for the factions we've already seen. This isn't base 40k, where you're going to be playing lots of pickup games with strangers, it's a campaign-style Necromunda/Killteam game. The most popular rules for Killteam are already ENTIRELY homebrew.

The biggest lingering question I have is Special Operatives: Where are their points costs? How do you build them into your gang, and how many can you have? Obviously a Scourge is not going to be anywhere near as powerful as a Haemonculus or Succubus, so I'm assuming they have costs...

Also, if we're looking at the stuff they're adding - the wych rules do seem to have rules for all the equipment that comes in the box but doesn't have rules. Special pistol ammo, poisoned knives, mirrormask, chain flail, all that stuff doesn't have rules in basic 40k.

Well done, GW. For including rules for everything that already comes in the same kit as the unit in the first place.

Alas, in my local area, we'll probably have a single officially sponsored Shadow War League at the local GW, and maybe some store-official leagues at the independents. Meaning either no homebrew at all or lots of begging. Kan? If I summoned you, any word on that?

 Verviedi wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Because nobody accepts homebrew units or rules. I shouldn't have to negotiate and plead to use something that should be in the game to begin with.

That's kind of odd. In the group I'm playing with, we've already added a bunch of units for the factions we've already seen. This isn't base 40k, where you're going to be playing lots of pickup games with strangers, it's a campaign-style Necromunda/Killteam game. The most popular rules for Killteam are already ENTIRELY homebrew.

The biggest lingering question I have is Special Operatives: Where are their points costs? How do you build them into your gang, and how many can you have? Obviously a Scourge is not going to be anywhere near as powerful as a Haemonculus or Succubus, so I'm assuming they have costs...

Also, if we're looking at the stuff they're adding - the wych rules do seem to have rules for all the equipment that comes in the box but doesn't have rules. Special pistol ammo, poisoned knives, mirrormask, chain flail, all that stuff doesn't have rules in basic 40k.

Well done, GW. For including rules for everything that already comes in the same kit as the unit in the first place.

Alas, in my local area, we'll probably have a single officially sponsored Shadow War League at the local GW, and maybe some store-official leagues at the independents. Meaning either no homebrew at all or lots of begging. Kan? If I summoned you, any word on that?

I do think it worth mentioning that there is supposed to actually be a kit for independent shops relating to leagues or something like that...so a lot of the issues might be addressed there.

Also, homebrew happens a bit in stuff related to our local GW. AoS we had to wing it with point values for some stuff that didn't get points or Allegiance Abilities etc for those that didn't get them either.

The league kit contains:

1x window poster
1x leader board poster
5x rules summary sheets
6x scenario sheets
12x certificates
2x sets of dice
100x Stickers
1x Shadow War Armageddon rulebook
10x faction sheets
100x roster sheets
20x gaming token sets
20x wristbands
5x sets of kill team cards
1x store managers guide

Bands a make her dance. Bands a make her dance

Sweet, thanks guys. I'd post some sort of rubbing-hands-together "excellent" gif, but I'm utterly exhausted.

stewe128 wrote:
Bands a make her dance. Bands a make her dance

I have no brain and I must think.

 Verviedi wrote:
Sweet, thanks guys. I'd post some sort of rubbing-hands-together "excellent" gif, but I'm utterly exhausted.

stewe128 wrote:
Bands a make her dance. Bands a make her dance

I have no brain and I must think.

From a song from the younger generation, but the scenarios seem pretty sweet. My FLGS will probably need to invest in some terrain for this game, but it will definitely pave the road for what's to come. Praying it'll be fun

 BrookM wrote:
The league kit contains:

1x window poster
1x leader board poster
5x rules summary sheets
6x scenario sheets
12x certificates
2x sets of dice
100x Stickers
1x Shadow War Armageddon rulebook
10x faction sheets
100x roster sheets
20x gaming token sets
20x wristbands
5x sets of kill team cards
1x store managers guide

I might get stickers if I play in a league? Sign me up.

Not sure if anyone has posted these but I was at my FLGS and they had the rule book. I was so excited when I saw these scouts and thought they would be in the box! Sadly they do not seem to be and if its a conversion its pretty amazing they did perfect job on all 5 scouts. It is strange if they're conversions that pics of the scouts with respirators are all over the book and other materials.

That's a head from the Biker Scout box, if I remember right.

Never had a reason to get Scout Bikers.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's a head from the Biker Scout box, if I remember right.

Never had a reason to get Scout Bikers.

no its not it is very different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gainsay wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's a head from the Biker Scout box, if I remember right.

Never had a reason to get Scout Bikers.

no its not it is very different.

Maybe they took that head chopped the other heads and put them together?

They could also have just thrown the goggles on over top of the head.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They could also have just thrown the goggles on over top of the head.

look closely man they're pretty different even if you put the goggle heads on them.

Is it not a Tempestus Scion's noggin?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Is it not a Tempestus Scion's noggin?

Nope. No hair on any Scions that isn't covered by a beret or helmet.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Is it not a Tempestus Scion's noggin?

Nope. No hair on any Scions that isn't covered by a beret or helmet.

This^
All scions either have a full helmet or a beret.

Man, I have not been so excited about 40k for years. I really hope they put out a whole book of lists. It would be tough for me not to just buy a kit to make every one of them. Just picked up Skitarii and GS cultists specifcially for this after resisting them both for a while.

Could it be random surprise updated scout kit?
If not, that is a beautiful conversion.

 Verviedi wrote:
Could it be random surprise updated scout kit?
If not, that is a beautiful conversion.

If it were an updated Scout kit, they'd be flagging it as such in WD.

Also--I think it's just a staff member's army. I remember seeing those back when the Scouts first got updated. Guy had a gorgeous Blood Raven army with all of his Scouts done up like that for Cities of Death.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Could it be random surprise updated scout kit?
If not, that is a beautiful conversion.

If it were an updated Scout kit, they'd be flagging it as such in WD.

Also--I think it's just a staff member's army. I remember seeing those back when the Scouts first got updated. Guy had a gorgeous Blood Raven army with all of his Scouts done up like that for Cities of Death.

Surprise sprue in the SWA box?

 silent25 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Could it be random surprise updated scout kit?
If not, that is a beautiful conversion.

If it were an updated Scout kit, they'd be flagging it as such in WD.

Also--I think it's just a staff member's army. I remember seeing those back when the Scouts first got updated. Guy had a gorgeous Blood Raven army with all of his Scouts done up like that for Cities of Death.

Surprise sprue in the SWA box?

Still would have mentioned it in the product info, if only as a selling point.

Well, kudos to that staff member for making excellent conversions. I want his skills.

Theyre Darren Lathams conversions done years ago

 Verviedi wrote:
Could it be random surprise updated scout kit?
If not, that is a beautiful conversion.

they are so perfect looks molded. Maybe the scouts in the new box will have that head option becuase thats the same head on all 5 scouts. I agree they would be flaunting it but maybe not if it is just one or two new heads.

is anything else on the page a conversion?

seems out of character for GW to "advertise" conversions without specifically calling them out as conversions

 gainsay wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Could it be random surprise updated scout kit?
If not, that is a beautiful conversion.

they are so perfect looks molded. Maybe the scouts in the new box will have that head option becuase thats the same head on all 5 scouts. I agree they would be flaunting it but maybe not if it is just one or two new heads.

They flaunted it with the Genestealer Cult upgrade sprue and the Deathwatch upgrade sprue.

They're converted. You can't see the sides in those photos, but in the actual photos from WD ages ago you could see that he did a slight bit of GS work to make the straps fit.

Manchu wrote:
is anything else on the page a conversion?

seems out of character for GW to "advertise" conversions without specifically calling them out as conversions

Personally, I love this OOC trip.

Manchu wrote:
is anything else on the page a conversion?

seems out of character for GW to "advertise" conversions without specifically calling them out as conversions

Eh. It might be that this is a section showing off "Kill Teams" and it says that some are converted or something like that.


Sulrias has a scabbard from the Scout sprue, with the sword haft cut off of it. It's commonly spotted on the Heavy Bolter model.
Scout Nasansis has a converted arm(the "tapping goggles" bit) from the Scout Sniper Sergeant. Auspex is converted as well.
Scout Sergeant Michaelos is also converted. There's a knife from the Cadians, and the Chainsword+BP are from the Regular Scout box.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:

Manchu wrote:
is anything else on the page a conversion?

seems out of character for GW to "advertise" conversions without specifically calling them out as conversions

Personally, I love this OOC trip.

You really haven't looked through many army books, eh? Many of them have conversions without them being called out as such.

Guard is full of them.

Haven't read the new Guard book, unfortunately. I mostly just read through my own dexes completely, and other codices whenever I get the chance, just to know the rules.

pics of them are all over the book and on promo materials. I've never seen GW flaunt conversions like that... And its not just in a showcase section. Idk why you're so combative.

Blood Ravens shown are inspiring enough, maybe they're not a lost cause after all.

 gainsay wrote:
pics of them are all over the book and on promo materials. I've never seen GW flaunt conversions like that...

Highly suggest you look at the Guard book or anything featuring the "two tone uniform" Cadians then. There's a large number of converted models/kitbashes(which is what these Scouts effectively are) in there. Any of the ones wearing respirators are kitbashed for example.

These scouts are featured in white dwarf #318. As someone else said by Darren Latham. Really old.

 gainsay wrote:
Not sure if anyone has posted these but I was at my FLGS and they had the rule book. I was so excited when I saw these scouts and thought they would be in the box! Sadly they do not seem to be and if its a conversion its pretty amazing they did perfect job on all 5 scouts. It is strange if they're conversions that pics of the scouts with respirators are all over the book and other materials.

snipers scout conversion