BlackoCatto wrote: It's amazing how they've prices themselves out of the market with Guard.
I was thinking of adding a 50 person platoon the other day, thinking the new kit was a 'mere' $40. I mean I make a good living, but no, just no.
New kit?
They just added another sprue to a twenty year old dated kit XD
The real question is....are they happy to have made X dollars in a couple of years before totally replacing the kit? Molds are a lot cheaper now, so they could easily bite the cost....
I could be cynical and say that GW knew they were coming out with a new box of Cadians, but had a ton of inventory of the old sprues, so by tooling up a new sprue, could induce people to buy new boxes of old Cadians in an effort to reduce the inventory of old sprues.
Remember around 2008 they had those huge package deals for great prices....you could get 5 or so Leman Russes, 10 sentinels etc?
Yeah.....and they had new kits for those within a year.
BlackoCatto wrote: It's amazing how they've prices themselves out of the market with Guard.
I was thinking of adding a 50 person platoon the other day, thinking the new kit was a 'mere' $40. I mean I make a good living, but no, just no.
New kit?
They just added another sprue to a twenty year old dated kit XD
The real question is....are they happy to have made X dollars in a couple of years before totally replacing the kit? Molds are a lot cheaper now, so they could easily bite the cost....
I could be cynical and say that GW knew they were coming out with a new box of Cadians, but had a ton of inventory of the old sprues, so by tooling up a new sprue, could induce people to buy new boxes of old Cadians in an effort to reduce the inventory of old sprues.
There was a rumour that the new Combat Patrol will have two squads of new Cadians (the ones we saw in the leaks) plus several other brand new models.
My theory is that those new kits will all be push-fit models with fewer options & fewer sprues in the same style as the Orks CP. Then the current squad kit will remain on sale with the upgrade sprue and all current datasheet options.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: In case anyone doesn't know both Mad Robot and Victoria Miniatures have some great lines of resin IG, complete with picking your own heads and bodies ala carte and these days cheaper than a Cadian squad (fifty dollary-doos?! really?)
I collect the old Praetorians, and every time I buy another squad I feel the pinch, then realize I'm often spending less than buying cadians at retail!
Not Guard per-se, but 40k rules for the Traitor Guard are up and it seems likely that a future Guard datasheet will look similar to that. If so...ew on 3 special weapons per squad, all of which being mutually exclusive. And with no points cost to most of the options you are actively hurting yourself by NOT kitting everything out. Lasguns, 3 special weapons, upgraded sergeant weapon is 5 profiles you need to roll attacks for on a 60 point squad.
I do kind of wonder if Commissar and Ogryn Bodyguard rules will be similar to how the Enforcer is - as an add on to the unit for the Ogryn, and the not actually killing a member of the unit for the Enforcer.
kurhanik wrote: Not Guard per-se, but 40k rules for the Traitor Guard are up and it seems likely that a future Guard datasheet will look similar to that. If so...ew on 3 special weapons per squad, all of which being mutually exclusive.
On the other hand, Voidsmen squad is so much better. Option to take 2 miniguns per squad, despite box only coming with one, unified gear, this incarnation of their rules is vastly superior to pretty much every previous attempt. Much better take at IG-like troops unit in 40K than Traitors...
This looks really bad, the choices reflect the rumors we heard for IG, but they will likely be limited to 2 SW. The enforcer ability might be what the Commissar does in the future. It sounds very bland. But at least CSM have now access to the Lost and Damned squad (and even the Traitor Ogryn, which is nice.
Guard squad SW options being exclusive choices...*vomits in mouth* only choice combo is PG and Melta, everything else is for scratching paint. The Commissar ability is a refined version of prior ability, basically admitting once again GW failed to implement a decent Leadership system.
On a side note, I find it hilarious how thanks to stupid stat inflation, most of weapons of Navy troopers are vastly superior to junk these rookie noobs astartes have. Why SM use these dumb bolters when laser volley gun variants used by tempestus and navy are cheaper, straight up superior in every respect, can run off SM backpack forever, and thanks to lack of recoil, small size, and point and click aiming would be easier to handle than even a bolt pistol making it ideal weapon that could easily replace 90% of chapter arsenal?
The next batch are supposed to include Kasrkin and Necrons/ Genestealers. Different people are talking about different enemies, but it's the next batch for the Hulk, so we'll see.
Main take away I took was that it was the upgraded Kasrkins, so it's looking like the Guard codex is incoming in a month or so.
If they include the new regiment, I'm interested to see who they pick, this time, because I'm so damn tired of painting Cadians, that I started just for kicks painting different colored uniforms and adding bits for change.
If they stuck with The Krieg, I'd honestly be fine with that. Just in case, though, I picked up a Steel Legion company, and Tanith First and Only company a while back, so it's high time to dust them off, and get to slinging more paint.
I have to agree on the Navy troops. You'd think that they would have had a little... restraint.. on some of those Standard Squad load outs to fall in line with the rest of the Guard. I'm all for shotguns, but that's going to mean more issues for the Navy attachment that's going to come to a head if they don't get a handle on the ongoing shotgun issues they already have.
So I assume the Multi-Laser is getting -1 AP? A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
Also, lol for the 3 different special weapons. At first I thought the Infantry Squad was safe because it had 2 flamers and grenade launchers in it, but then I remembered that it ain't the case anymore ...
Irbis wrote: On a side note, I find it hilarious how thanks to stupid stat inflation, most of weapons of Navy troopers are vastly superior to junk these rookie noobs astartes have. Why SM use these dumb bolters when laser volley gun variants used by tempestus and navy are cheaper, straight up superior in every respect, can run off SM backpack forever, and thanks to lack of recoil, small size, and point and click aiming would be easier to handle than even a bolt pistol making it ideal weapon that could easily replace 90% of chapter arsenal?
I mean, naval infantry soldiers of a space-faring fleet are in the truest sense of the word ... space marines!
AtoMaki wrote: So I assume the Multi-Laser is getting -1 AP? A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
Also, lol for the 3 different special weapons. At first I thought the Infantry Squad was safe because it had 2 flamers and grenade launchers in it, but then I remembered that it ain't the case anymore ...
Gw store in error? It claims 2 flamer&gl, 1 melta/plasma.
AtoMaki wrote: So I assume the Multi-Laser is getting -1 AP? A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
Also, lol for the 3 different special weapons. At first I thought the Infantry Squad was safe because it had 2 flamers and grenade launchers in it, but then I remembered that it ain't the case anymore ...
Gw store in error? It claims 2 flamer&gl, 1 melta/plasma.
The old Cadian box had no plasma or melta in it, though it was set up to allow you to convert 2 guys into carrying a plasma/meltagun if you had extras ( 2 of the guardsmen lasguns did not have hands attached, and had corresponding left arms with open palms. You could snip off the lasgun and glue in a plasma or melta gun in its place. I do not think a lot of people picked up on that....).
The newer box set has a plasma/melta gun in it so......
AtoMaki wrote: So I assume the Multi-Laser is getting -1 AP? A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
Also, lol for the 3 different special weapons. At first I thought the Infantry Squad was safe because it had 2 flamers and grenade launchers in it, but then I remembered that it ain't the case anymore ...
Gw store in error? It claims 2 flamer&gl, 1 melta/plasma.
AtoMaki wrote: So I assume the Multi-Laser is getting -1 AP? A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
Also, lol for the 3 different special weapons. At first I thought the Infantry Squad was safe because it had 2 flamers and grenade launchers in it, but then I remembered that it ain't the case anymore ...
Gw store in error? It claims 2 flamer&gl, 1 melta/plasma.
I thought the 20-models box had 2 flamers and gls? IIRC there was 1 flamer and gl on each 10-models sprue. But I can be wrong. Heck, I hope I'm wrong.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: The 10 guardsman box has 2 GLs and 2 flamers (one per sprue of 5 guys)
Nice. Fingers crossed then for 2 specials in any combination.
What are the odds that if the currently available plastic kit formed the basis of the new unit entry, you're allowed two grenade launchers or flamers but only one copy of any other special weapon? GW has written some dodgy unit entries in recent times.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: The 10 guardsman box has 2 GLs and 2 flamers (one per sprue of 5 guys)
Nice. Fingers crossed then for 2 specials in any combination.
What are the odds that if the currently available plastic kit formed the basis of the new unit entry, you're allowed two grenade launchers or flamers but only one copy of any other special weapon? GW has written some dodgy unit entries in recent times.
It will be written so that 2 models may take Flamer or Grenade Launcher and one other model may take Melta, Plasma, or Sniper Rifle.
This Traitor Guard datasheet is just to allow people to use their KIll Teams in 40k. A kill team can have only 3 special weapons with no dupes, so that's what they translated across. Hopefully, once a full Codex materialises, the options will fan out a little.
Shakalooloo wrote: This Traitor Guard datasheet is just to allow people to use their KIll Teams in 40k. A kill team can have only 3 special weapons with no dupes, so that's what they translated across. Hopefully, once a full Codex materialises, the options will fan out a little.
Chaos Space Marines and Cultists also can't take the same special or heavy weapon multiple times. It is also a thing in the Votann codex where their basic troop must take different weapons too.
Shakalooloo wrote: This Traitor Guard datasheet is just to allow people to use their KIll Teams in 40k. A kill team can have only 3 special weapons with no dupes, so that's what they translated across. Hopefully, once a full Codex materialises, the options will fan out a little.
Chaos Space Marines and Cultists also can't take the same special or heavy weapon multiple times. It is also a thing in the Votann codex where their basic troop must take different weapons too.
Well, the explanation for those is just bad writing.
Shakalooloo wrote: This Traitor Guard datasheet is just to allow people to use their KIll Teams in 40k. A kill team can have only 3 special weapons with no dupes, so that's what they translated across. Hopefully, once a full Codex materialises, the options will fan out a little.
Chaos Space Marines and Cultists also can't take the same special or heavy weapon multiple times. It is also a thing in the Votann codex where their basic troop must take different weapons too.
Well, the explanation for those is just bad writing.
Petitioner's City over on Bolter & Chainsword found this:
An Astra Militarum Novel
An elite squad of Cadian Kasrkin are tasked with a critical mission behind enemy lines. They must rescue their general in xenos-held territory before his dangerous knowledge falls into enemy hands. But not all is as it seems...
READ IT BECAUSE
Hear the legendary elite soldiers of Cadia in action as they take on a mission so dangerous it could only be trusted to troops with their training and equipment.
THE STORY
When the perfidious t’au bring down a valkyrie containing an Astra Militarum general on the besieged Imperial world of Dasht i-Kevar, all could be lost what the general knows could break the war effort, and see the planet fall under the control of the vile xenos.
Only the Kasrkin stand a chance at bringing him back. They are the elite of the elite, but the enemy that Captain Bharath Obeysekera and his squad are called upon to fight is unlike any they have faced before the desert itself, endless and implacable.
With sandstorms cutting them off from support, Obeysekera has only his soldiers to rely on. As the Kasrkin journey deeper into the wastes, they begin to realise they’re not the only hunters searching for the missing general, and that their war has caught the attention of something ancient lurking beneath the desert sands…
Automatically Appended Next Post: Rumour Engine from 10/26/2021. Possibly the Field Ordnance?
Kanluwen wrote: Petitioner's City over on Bolter & Chainsword found this:
Tie-in with the plastic Kasrkins, no doubts. Still. Thoroughly interested, I don't think there's a single book that display the Karskins as anything but absolute units, and a whole book all about them sounds right about my alley, at least. Anyone read the author's other books?
schoon wrote: GW's copy for selling books (or minis) isn't usually much of an indicator of the quality of the end result.
Generally much better to look at the author's other stuff and judge that way. Seems he's mostly a Space Marine author...
My thinking is that a novel on Kasrkin (for example) timed to match a release is going to be editorially driven to meet a release schedule. In contrast if someone does a book on Harlequins or Inquisitors at a time when there's no product to sell it will be more author driven.
Generally I've been frustrated with books meant to tie into a product release.
The author's Roane Deeper's story in Sabbat War was really good. It got a claustrophobia warning in the editor's note by Abnett and it definitely needed it.
Gert wrote: The author's Roane Deeper's story in Sabbat War was really good. It got a claustrophobia warning in the editor's note by Abnett and it definitely needed it.
Which one was that? Was that in the original GG series or one of the tie-ins?
schoon wrote: GW's copy for selling books (or minis) isn't usually much of an indicator of the quality of the end result.
Generally much better to look at the author's other stuff and judge that way. Seems he's mostly a Space Marine author...
So a Marine will swoop in to save the day XD
If the last IG vs Tau book I have read is any measure then the human main protagonist will save Shadowsun's life in the final fight against the Big Evil Human Character, and after the battle Shadowsun will semi-randomly reflect on procreation and childbearing. I gak you not here, this was in the book.
schoon wrote: GW's copy for selling books (or minis) isn't usually much of an indicator of the quality of the end result.
Generally much better to look at the author's other stuff and judge that way. Seems he's mostly a Space Marine author...
My thinking is that a novel on Kasrkin (for example) timed to match a release is going to be editorially driven to meet a release schedule. In contrast if someone does a book on Harlequins or Inquisitors at a time when there's no product to sell it will be more author driven.
Generally I've been frustrated with books meant to tie into a product release.
Keep in mind that the Black Library release schedule looks to be so heavily planned that they can and do sit on books for, well, almost a year before releasing them.
I'm reminded of Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Echoes of Eternity, which was finished and ready to go in November of 2021 (per his personal blog), but I don't think it hit wide publication until like last month.
schoon wrote: GW's copy for selling books (or minis) isn't usually much of an indicator of the quality of the end result.
Generally much better to look at the author's other stuff and judge that way. Seems he's mostly a Space Marine author...
So a Marine will swoop in to save the day XD
If the last IG vs Tau book I have read is any measure then the human main protagonist will save Shadowsun's life in the final fight against the Big Evil Human Character, and after the battle Shadowsun will semi-randomly reflect on procreation and childbearing. I gak you not here, this was in the book.
schoon wrote: GW's copy for selling books (or minis) isn't usually much of an indicator of the quality of the end result.
Generally much better to look at the author's other stuff and judge that way. Seems he's mostly a Space Marine author...
So a Marine will swoop in to save the day XD
If the last IG vs Tau book I have read is any measure then the human main protagonist will save Shadowsun's life in the final fight against the Big Evil Human Character, and after the battle Shadowsun will semi-randomly reflect on procreation and childbearing. I gak you not here, this was in the book.
What
That leaves me with only two questions. Does Shadowsun reflect on procreation with her human savior, and when are we expecting Black Library to roll out their Warhammer Kink line?
So... any rumours pointing to a Traitor Guard-Brood Brothers-like rules? I mean, I know we just got a datasheet.. but in this existence the duty of a true man is to believe
Rebasing the guardsmen???.......NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo!
The new sentinel kit looks good, and lets you build the scout sentinel.
LOve the ordnance Batteries. They look great.
The new Heavy Weapons Kits.....ok. Not bad.
New Command Squad etc.....ok. Obviously they are monopose, so you can't convert up neat looking medics, radiomen etc.
New Cadians.....look ok. There is an intriguing line that says Cadian squads can bring more special weapons than a standard infantry squad.
So does this mean GW will have Cadian Squads and standard infantry squads? Or will the Cadian Squads replace the old kit ( given that the new models have different proportions) and you just slap a keyword on them?
OH and again......it looks like the models are on bigger bases.
Those kneepads are cute. Also, the Bombast gunner guy must have Mars-grade adamantine balls to sit right behind an obviously not recoilless high-calibre cannon.
During the live stream, the explained Cadian Shock Troops couldn’t take Heavy Weapons, but that they’re a specific unit, separate from Infantry Squads.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: During the live stream, the explained Cadian Shock Troops couldn’t take Heavy Weapons, but that they’re a specific unit, separate from Infantry Squads.
Exactly. Cadian Shock Troops and Infantry Squads are separate. And I think Shock Troops are Veterans exclusive for Cadia if going by amount of special weapons.
It’s easy to see how “CST don’t get Heavy Weapons” quickly become “Cadians don’t get Heavy Weapons”. And from there “Infantry Squads don’t get heavy weapons”.
The article also confirms that rules for other regiments are still around in pick-n-mix form:
Instead of tying your troops to a specific world, you’ll create a Regimental Doctrine that fits your preferred playstyle by combining two doctrine rules. Some of these are themed after iconic regiments, but you’re free to pick and combine whichever you like the most.
For example – do you love ranks of infantry standing firm and firing disciplined volleys in the face of mounting casualties? Choose the Cult of Sacrifice and Parade Drill doctrines to add a touch of die-hard Death Korps determination to the Mordian Iron Guard’s discipline.
Wouldn't be surprised to see MTO offerings for some of the older regiments. Keep in mind the rumours that got the launch box contents correct also said we're getting plastic Catachans.
Is it just me, or do a few of the Cadian Shock Troops look female? Just the face, as the bodies are pretty uniform, but the Sergeant has a very narrow face as does one of the lasgun troopers.
alextroy wrote: Is it just me, or do a few of the Cadian Shock Troops look female? Just the face, as the bodies are pretty uniform, but the Sergeant has a very narrow face as does one of the lasgun troopers.
I almost missed that !
Well, it looks fantastic, the modesl are much more modern and dynamic and everything looks stellar, even if the Guard in general and the Kasrkins in particular have stand the test of time pretty well, in my opinion.
The wheeled artillery was something I had wanted for long without even knowing I wanted it apparently Very curious to see if they are monopose models or not though
Based on the 20 Cadian Shock Troops in this picture, we are looking at a modern 2-builds-per-body kit.
Also, in this picture you can see that the sergeant of the farther squad holds an auto or stubber weapon of some kind.
Comparing the new Kasrkin to rest of the redesigned Cadians makes me think they were sculpted earlier, as the Kasrkin are much closer to the current Cadian aesthetic whereas the Guardsmen and other units feature some pretty heavy departures.
Based on the 20 Cadian Shock Troops in this picture, we are looking at a modern 2-builds-per-body kit.
I dunno, amongst those twenty, there are only two running poses with the right leg on the ground.
Every model in the top-left squad has a different set of arms in the mid-right squad. Use the feet as a guide and you will see. It can be a little tricky as some model's second version are not pointed in the same direction, but it isn't hard to see.
It is also easy to see there are either multiple heads per body or a set of heads that fit on any body.
Based on the 20 Cadian Shock Troops in this picture, we are looking at a modern 2-builds-per-body kit.
I dunno, amongst those twenty, there are only two running poses with the right leg on the ground.
Every model in the top-left squad has a different set of arms in the mid-right squad. Use the feet as a guide and you will see. It can be a little tricky as some model's second version are not pointed in the same direction, but it isn't hard to see.
It is also easy to see there are either multiple heads per body or a set of heads that fit on any body.
There are four models with their left leg only on the ground. Two have their right leg ahead of it, two have it behind. That is a duplication of two leg sets, not four of one.
I like the new cadians! The unfortunate side effect of the properly scaled models this time after four decades of ham fists and balloon heads is that my gut instinct is to see this instead.
So we already know the unit entry. One model can have a Plasma Gun, one model can have a Grenade Launcher, and one model can have a Sniper Rifle.
And one model can have a demolition charge (leftmost dude on the second pic) and another can have a flamer. And then one can have a vox and one can have an auspex.
Based on the 20 Cadian Shock Troops in this picture, we are looking at a modern 2-builds-per-body kit.
I dunno, amongst those twenty, there are only two running poses with the right leg on the ground.
Every model in the top-left squad has a different set of arms in the mid-right squad. Use the feet as a guide and you will see. It can be a little tricky as some model's second version are not pointed in the same direction, but it isn't hard to see.
It is also easy to see there are either multiple heads per body or a set of heads that fit on any body.
There are four models with their left leg only on the ground. Two have their right leg ahead of it, two have it behind. That is a duplication of two leg sets, not four of one.
I think we suffering from miscommunication. It appears to me, based on the picture, that the 10 model Cadian Shock Troops Squad has 10 bodies. Each of those 10 bodies has at least 2 sets of arms that can be placed on it since none of the 20 models in the picture are exact duplicates between the two squads.
Based on the 20 Cadian Shock Troops in this picture, we are looking at a modern 2-builds-per-body kit.
I dunno, amongst those twenty, there are only two running poses with the right leg on the ground.
Every model in the top-left squad has a different set of arms in the mid-right squad. Use the feet as a guide and you will see. It can be a little tricky as some model's second version are not pointed in the same direction, but it isn't hard to see.
It is also easy to see there are either multiple heads per body or a set of heads that fit on any body.
There are four models with their left leg only on the ground. Two have their right leg ahead of it, two have it behind. That is a duplication of two leg sets, not four of one.
i think you are correct, 10 legs. Plus another ~5 from the command squad, and ~2 from the emplaced heavy weapons. Should be enough for anyone who cares about "variety."
Why is the number of poses that big a deal for an army where you're supposed to be running masses of things? Of all the units to be dynamic for every single model, Guardsmen are not what jumps to the top of the list IMO.
Space Marines, sure you don't get a lot of them in an army and similar poses are sometimes noticeable but also pretty easy to sort cos, Bitz. But Guardsmen are the faceless masses that look the same as their 80 other comrades because individuality doesn't matter when you are a little better than a number with a gun.
Wow... I had thought that any update of the plastic Cadians with GW's current sculpting aesthetic was going to be amazing. But this release is oddly uninspiring.
They've tweaked the body proportions on the troops, which is good... but due to having the same oversized weapons, the hands are still huge, and combined with the shrunken heads just looks odd, particularly with the women, whose heads appear to be slightly smaller than their male counterparts.
The Sentinel is a redesign of a model that really didn't need a redesign, and doesn't look as nice as the model it replaces.
The Commissar is just ... bland. GW can do static models well. The 2nd edition pudgy powerfist Commissar is still one of my favourite GW models ever. But this guy just lacks any sort of character or presence. Maybe it's just the tiny hat.
And the heavier heavy weapons... In a universe that gave us tarantulas, thudd guns, and mole mortars, they said 'Hey, what if we gave them a slightly larger lascannon!'
I dunno. Maybe it's just the whole 'they look different' thing, and they'll grow on me. Looking around online, plenty of people seem more than happy with what's been shown so far.
Gert wrote: Why is the number of poses that big a deal for an army where you're supposed to be running masses of things? Of all the units to be dynamic for every single model, Guardsmen are not what jumps to the top of the list IMO.
Space Marines, sure you don't get a lot of them in an army and similar poses are sometimes noticeable but also pretty easy to sort cos, Bitz. But Guardsmen are the faceless masses that look the same as their 80 other comrades because individuality doesn't matter when you are a little better than a number with a gun.
From what I've gathered talking to customers it is because, you want enough variation so that it looks like an army, and not a bunch of cloned poses.
It can sometimes be immersion breaking and make the army you lovingly crafted feel like simple boardgame chits.
It's also why sci-fi kits from alternative manufacturers have been increasingly keeping to seperate bodies and legs while he has moved towards limited dynamic posing.
...Interesting. I kind of hate the new Cadians, and wasnt expecting that.
The new bodies look to me both blocky and formless and the new proportions are incredibly jarring (most evidently on the commissar). They've gone all the way from unrealistic too big proportions to equally unrealistic proportions the other way around, but now with added monopose bodies.
I'm happy for everyone that likes them, but I'm happy too that my reaction is so negative, as the temptation of buying a boatload of them suddenly vanished...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gert wrote: Why is the number of poses that big a deal for an army where you're supposed to be running masses of things? Of all the units to be dynamic for every single model, Guardsmen are not what jumps to the top of the list IMO.
Space Marines, sure you don't get a lot of them in an army and similar poses are sometimes noticeable but also pretty easy to sort cos, Bitz. But Guardsmen are the faceless masses that look the same as their 80 other comrades because individuality doesn't matter when you are a little better than a number with a gun.
Gert wrote: Why is the number of poses that big a deal for an army where you're supposed to be running masses of things? Of all the units to be dynamic for every single model, Guardsmen are not what jumps to the top of the list IMO.
It is one of those things where a small set number of poses can get awkward with large numbers of models if they are too dynamic, or too specific. For example, the Scion Plasmagun is held in a manner that you cannot pose the model actually shooting it, and the default setup is that they are holding the gun at an angle with one arm while pointing with the other. You can fix things up a bit by having the model point up, down, or forwards, or putting a different arm on it (say a pistol or the like), but in the end it still looks kind of silly having a full unit with 4 plasmagunners all casually hoisting their gun weirdly and pointing.
Its a bit ironic, but actually with an army like Guard where you can have 100 of the same model, having it uniform in a less dynamic pose can be better. 100 guys marching and holding their guns looks normal. 100 guys with super dynamic poses redone over and over looks super glaring. Its not the best comparison, but think of the Warcry models, and how super dynamic they are:
Even on their own store page, it is super obvious that they are the same models and it just looks jarring having them lined up together. If the new Cadians had ended up like this with super dynamic poses it would look extremely weird when a player runs up with 10 squads of them like that.
The old Cadians, for all their flaws and proportion issues, did actually service a bit in posability. It is all minor stuff mind, but glue the torso on the body at a slightly different angle so the person is turning at the waist slightly, or angling their gun slightly higher or lower like they are aiming, at ease and the like. Scions also have this but even better with the ball joint at the torso/hip meeting point. It let you have a mostly uniform army with some slight variations that look nice enough together (except pointy plasma man)
Now with these guys, depending on how you can swap the weapons and arms between "default" builds, don't look *too* bad, so hopefully when we see the sprues and the kits themselves we'll be able to see how well it all slots together. They did well in avoiding going for super dynamic poses, focusing instead on marching and firing stance poses. If the models are set up in such a way that you can swap arms from their default torsos you should be able to get enough of a mix in there that you can have a uniform look without too much repeating of the exact same pose with the exact same loadout. If the arms/poses are designed in such a way that its super tedious to do this then boo, that sucks.
So what I'm hearing is that if your opponent is putting down 80 Guardsmen, 3 HWT, 4 Russes, 2 Chimeras, a Basilisk, 2 Commanders and a Commisar, that it will irritate you that one in every 20 models will have a similar pose?
Forgive me if I think that's about the worst complaint I've heard in a while.
Gert wrote: So what I'm hearing is that if your opponent is putting down 80 Guardsmen, 3 HWT, 4 Russes, 2 Chimeras, a Basilisk, 2 Commanders and a Commisar, that it will irritate you that every one in every 20 models will have a similar pose?
What I'm hearing is you trying to ridicule and belittle people who have issues with that.
But no, it's seeing the same ten bodies in the same ten poses eight times in the army. Even if you change the arms and the head, it's usually noticeable enough, and the more noticeable the more "out there" the poses are.
Little known fact: Hats are a finite resource in the 41st Millennium, and to ensure that they don't run out of hats after this guy and his absurdly big hat, all Commissar hats have to be smaller going forward.
insaniak wrote: And the heavier heavy weapons... In a universe that gave us tarantulas, thudd guns, and mole mortars, they said 'Hey, what if we gave them a slightly larger lascannon!'
Kinda reminds me of how I felt when all the wild and wacky Ork artillery from 2nd Ed - Pulsa Rokkit, Splatta Kannon, Smasha Gun, Traktor Cannon - got turned into: Kannon, Lobba, Zzapp Gun.
And the heavier heavy weapons... In a universe that gave us tarantulas, thudd guns, and mole mortars, they said 'Hey, what if we gave them a slightly larger lascannon!'
No different to flamer/plasma guns having heavy versions. IRL is often just "cannon" and "larger cannon". If anything it was a bit stupid that IG had a man portable lascannon, the idea of them having a less complex and larger one needing a gun carriage is okay with me. I think you just have to accept the long establish fact GW would rather say ER HEY IT'S A NEW TYPE OF SPACE MARINE/BOLTER/WEAPON instead of just being happy with replacing stuff. "Hey here's new true scale marines" or "Hey lascannons are now actually heavy-heavy weapons"
Thankfully the universe is so large and such that you can always just say "well *these* Sentinels are a simply design used way out in the sticks, or they're an old design that showed up on a long lost Sentinel Delivery Ship from M31"
The Sentinel is a redesign of a model that really didn't need a redesign, and doesn't look as nice as the model it replaces.
The Commissar is just ... bland. GW can do static models well. The 2nd edition pudgy powerfist Commissar is still one of my favourite GW models ever. But this guy just lacks any sort of character or presence. Maybe it's just the tiny hat.
.
Yeah...the new Sentinel is ok I guess? But the old one is just beautiful. I do wonder if the new one will have poseable legs like the old one. I love that damned model, I actually broke down and ordered 2 more of them over the Summer to make sure I could get some before they are gone forever.
And he, my girlfriend had to point out that if not for the tactical rock, that Commissar's sword would be a few centimeters into the dirt. She basically immediately said that without the sash and such he looked more like a junior commissar like we saw in some of the old Cain books instead of the full fledged deal.
At least its pose is better than the current one, but my favorite is still by far the one reading from a book with his powerfist.
Noting I don't know all the old Commisars too well, so I could be drastically off here, but probably Fist Boy > Steel Legion Commissar > Lord Commisar > Female Commissar > This Guy > Current Commissar. I know I'm missing a few, but as I don't remember them I can't really rate them.
Gert wrote:So what I'm hearing is that if your opponent is putting down 80 Guardsmen, 3 HWT, 4 Russes, 2 Chimeras, a Basilisk, 2 Commanders and a Commisar, that it will irritate you that one in every 20 models will have a similar pose?
Forgive me if I think that's about the worst complaint I've heard in a while.
Um, its more that depending on just how uniform it looks, if every radioman, every sergeant, every plasmagunner, every grenade launcher man, etc have the exact same pose, it really does get jarring. At that point we might as well go back to the old metals. Its moreso an issue if they are DYNAMIC poses, like I said upthread, the fact that Scions plasmagunners can only hoist their gun awkwardly while pointing at their foe just looks silly - especially when for a long time plasma was THE choice to run with Scions. Repeated poses can be fine if they are more natural looking, and less dynamic, but even then, having even the slight option of altering it slightly helps break the monotony.
Like I said, we'll see with these guardsmen. If they are like the Traitor Guard where you can at least swap arms somewhat without too much issue it shouldn't be that bad, but if say some torsos have arms out to the elbow, others to halfway between elbow and shoulder, and others at the shoulder, and all of the special weapons are locked into specific formats, then it can be problematic.
And the heavier heavy weapons... In a universe that gave us tarantulas, thudd guns, and mole mortars, they said 'Hey, what if we gave them a slightly larger lascannon!'
No different to flamer/plasma guns having heavy versions. IRL is often just "cannon" and "larger cannon". If anything it was a bit stupid that IG had a man portable lascannon, the idea of them having a less complex and larger one needing a gun carriage is okay with me. I think you just have to accept the long establish fact GW would rather say ER HEY IT'S A NEW TYPE OF SPACE MARINE/BOLTER/WEAPON instead of just being happy with replacing stuff. "Hey here's new true scale marines" or "Hey lascannons are now actually heavy-heavy weapons"
My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options. Just giving them access to lascannon-equipped tarantulas, or rapier laser destroyers would have been more interesting than 'bigger lascannon'.
YMMV, obviously.
Edit - and having said that, while the multi-missile launcher thing is ugly, I do like the cannon.
And no, I'm not entirely sure why 'bigger lascannon' is bad, but 'baby earthshaker' is good...
The cannon really makes me think of 37mm style WW2 guns, though really that's just the design of the carriage. The barrel/bore of course is of ridiculous proportions. Still it's going to be so cool to finally have proper field guns!
insaniak wrote: My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options.
Because people already own those, and no one owns any of these, and they want you to buy new things.
Albertorius wrote: What I'm hearing is you trying to ridicule and belittle people who have issues with that.
Pretty much. I've been trying to explain why "all dynamic but monoposed" is bad for large formations but the better part of a year, but he doesn't understand the concept and compensates by just attacking anyone who brings it up.
insaniak wrote: My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options.
Because people already own those, and no one owns any of these, and they want you to buy new things.
I dunno... I suspect that by this point there aren't actually that many Guard players still in the game who own tarantulas or rapiers. And even those who do would likely be tempted by redesigned plastic versions. I know I would*.
*I mean, yes, I'd be tempted. Just as the new Commissar reminded me that I really wanted the Sevarina Raine model. And then I went and checked the price and decided I didn't really need it after all. But still... new, plastic Rapiers would be nice to look at and not buy.
I already built my HWT into carriage carried artillery back in 2007. GW is just late by 15 years.
I'm not very impressed with the new kit, it looks good I guess, but that's all. What's with GW and weird antennas btw? The Kasrkin on the other hand look promising even if the weapon selection is going to be a mess.
Gunmaster Nyzhel Tuffenl : The heavy weapons all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Potentate Martii D'Brgi : Oh, I see. And most heavy weapons go up to ten?
Gunmaster Nyzhel Tuffenl : Exactly.
Potentate Martii D'Brgi : Does that mean it's heavier? Is it any heavier?
Gunmaster Nyzhel Tuffenl : Well, it's one heavier, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be firing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your weapon. Where can you go from there? Where?
Potentate Martii D'Brgi : I don't know.
Gunmaster Nyzhel Tuffenl : Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Potentate Martii D'Brgi : Put it up to eleven.
Gunmaster Nyzhel Tuffenl : Eleven. Exactly. One heavier.
Potentate Martii D'Brgi : Why don't you just make ten heavier and make ten be the top number and make that a little heavier?
Gunmaster Nyzhel Tuffenl : [pause] These go to eleven.
I'd assume this is their way of justifying moving the lascannons to D d3+3 (or some other power boost), but I can't say a lot of GW's choices this decision have made much sense to me, so it may be something completely different that I wouldn't have thought of.
Miguelsan wrote: Silliness aside I want to know what the "heavier" Lascan is going to bring to the table. The current one is already Hvy 1 S 9 -3 d6 weapon.
Gert wrote: So what I'm hearing is that if your opponent is putting down 80 Guardsmen, 3 HWT, 4 Russes, 2 Chimeras, a Basilisk, 2 Commanders and a Commisar, that it will irritate you that every one in every 20 models will have a similar pose?
What I'm hearing is you trying to ridicule and belittle people who have issues with that.
But no, it's seeing the same ten bodies in the same ten poses eight times in the army. Even if you change the arms and the head, it's usually noticeable enough, and the more noticeable the more "out there" the poses are.
The old kit had five leg poses, the torsos looked stupid if rotated more than a micron, and the clumpy rifles waving in odd directions is the only real choice. This kit seems like a flat upgrade for variety.
I didn't watch the stream, but from what I hear, I didn't miss anything? No nostalgic interview with some of the older designers? No freaky callbacks to things I might have never known, that are one the level Obi-Wan Sherlock Closeau? Only thanks for buying our stuff and please remember to buy more stuff?
Leaving my cynicism aside:
Congrats to the Cadian players out there, the basic infantry and kasrkins look terrific. I especially enjoy the move they took on the lasrifle towards a carbine that looks slimmer and actually wieldable for a change. I also like the very distinct faces, that not only allow, but encourage that your troops diversity in skincolors and gender. I do notice, that in style this moves Cadia away from Cold War area NATO troops and more towards US in Korea/Vietnam in gear. Not that I would complain, I like the guard to look as outdated as it can get.
The Heavy Weapon Teams are also great, it's nice to see that it looks like they remain a basic staple of the general infantry squad.
The 'Heavier Weapons teams', well it's nice that they are there? It feels like there could have been a bit more polish to them. They look cartoonish in a bad way. But maybe it's just the paint job again. I do like that I could at least place Heavy Mortars and Thudd Guns under count as now (with hopefully no longer trash rules)
The Commissar is ... well congrats if you like him, he certainly is different. But I can't shake the image of Burn Gorman in a rain coat, wishing he was someplace else.
Lol to the radio soldier, that is going to be a model that everyone wants to design differently.
Closing of the cynic sandwich: Thank you GW for implementing a new Rule to Cult of Sacrifice, that is potentially even worse than before. In the 0.05% of chances that I have a squad that is not completely wiped off the board, but instead actually has some semblance to a functional unit, it will get in handy. Almost makes me hope I get to voluntarily execute a squadmember DoW style. Which would be the most chaotic special rule in a loyalist force ever.
Hmmm... I think I'm going to get the army box. And shadow vault. I'm a Krieg player, and want my army to remain Krieg, but there was always something about having mixed regiments in second edition that I really liked. I also want the codex ASAP so that is another factor.
If worst comes to the worst, I'll move on some of the kits I don't need, but I'm fairly confident I can convert some of the new kits via kit bash with the Krieg Vet kit to make some new variety of Krieg units there. Though... I also think I should wait, as the optimist in me still thinks we will get more Krieg kits in plastic at some point.
Really, for me anyway, I just want a unit of new kit bashed catachan to be mordant acid dogs and some kit bashed salvar chem dogs to add in for variety anyway in terms of mixing regiments.
insaniak wrote: My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options.
Because people already own those, and no one owns any of these, and they want you to buy new things.
I dunno... I suspect that by this point there aren't actually that many Guard players still in the game who own tarantulas or rapiers. And even those who do would likely be tempted by redesigned plastic versions. I know I would*.
*I mean, yes, I'd be tempted. Just as the new Commissar reminded me that I really wanted the Sevarina Raine model. And then I went and checked the price and decided I didn't really need it after all. But still... new, plastic Rapiers would be nice to look at and not buy.
That and a weapon that has been in the setting since RT, and is currently only available through the Fw Death Korps, the Thudd Gun. Outside of the Earthshaker/Medusa it is probably the most iconic Guard artillery piece. I'd already have a battery myself if they weren't 46$ a pop without crew, which is just 3 dudes for 27.50$.
Most probably know/realise this already, but the Cadians are the same CAD design as the Krieg veterans, The leg poses/stances are exactly the same, and I'm fairly sure they are the same arms till it get to the cuffs of the uniform and then the hands. Certain weapons are exactly the same pose/stance such as the plasma gunner.
EDIT: Not completely the same, they don't have the kneeling poses, but mostly the same. To be fair, I've got 50x of the new Krieg vets painted, and you can't really tell there's some double or tripled up poses in there with some basic changes, such as accessories and different bases.
The old kit had five leg poses, the torsos looked stupid if rotated more than a micron, and the clumpy rifles waving in odd directions is the only real choice. This kit seems like a flat upgrade for variety.
This. The only element of customisation the new models will lack is the possibility of turning the torso a tiny bit, but as there will actually be more different bodies, you will get more variety and the poses actually look natural. I'm sure you can freely put any arms on any body. The complaints (as usual) are completely ridiculous.
Crimson wrote: The complaints (as usual) are completely ridiculous
with a lot of models, small changes on each make a big difference than 100% identical ones, with the big problem here being that only 4 legs are useful in a troop as the 2 running/dynamic ones will always stand out, specially if there is more than 1 unit
but hey, paying a premium price and than being happy with "good enough" as there is no real advantage over other companies metal/resin models (not even the price)
Hard to know how these will be cut on the sprue, so it's a bit of early days to say they are monoposed.
If you have 2 different builds per model on a box of 10 thats 20 different enough poses. Its a lot of 'ifs' at this point because arms may be glued to torsos, or torso legs one part only etc etc...
Swarm like armies do struggle a bit with the model spam so any individuality on models will stand out a lot.
The design problem here is that theres limited space on a sprue to make 30 or 40 different minis.
More than the poses here IMO the proportions have changed... and not only to a more modern/updated look... they suffer the same blandness, common on 3D assets, seen in sisters. They are more serious now and somewhat more boring. GW needs to be careful here when it comes to human proportions since they may be compromising 40k character towards a more "realistic" feel which looks awful in these scales.
Not human, realistic or 40k but that happened to the new kruelboys in AoS and personally it failed the mark by 100%.
I like how the new Cadians a re a bit less "modern" than the old ones. They're scifi, but have more of a world wars vibe than the old plastics.
I also think this makes them easier to adapt for other regiments. Headswaps would produce passable Praetorians or Steel Legion, etc. (And Krieg plastics with alternate heads would make good Valhallans.)
I really hope that GW will make some upgrade sprues with different heads.
And the heavier heavy weapons... In a universe that gave us tarantulas, thudd guns, and mole mortars, they said 'Hey, what if we gave them a slightly larger lascannon!'
No different to flamer/plasma guns having heavy versions. IRL is often just "cannon" and "larger cannon". If anything it was a bit stupid that IG had a man portable lascannon, the idea of them having a less complex and larger one needing a gun carriage is okay with me. I think you just have to accept the long establish fact GW would rather say ER HEY IT'S A NEW TYPE OF SPACE MARINE/BOLTER/WEAPON instead of just being happy with replacing stuff. "Hey here's new true scale marines" or "Hey lascannons are now actually heavy-heavy weapons"
My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options. Just giving them access to lascannon-equipped tarantulas, or rapier laser destroyers would have been more interesting than 'bigger lascannon'.
YMMV, obviously.
Edit - and having said that, while the multi-missile launcher thing is ugly, I do like the cannon.
And no, I'm not entirely sure why 'bigger lascannon' is bad, but 'baby earthshaker' is good...
Something to consider in this regard is that GW these days wants armies to have designs of their own to strengthen faction identity. Where once upon a time Imperial tech was widely shared among its factions and justified with the STC fluff, not the least because GW had more limited production capacity then, they have largely moved away from that with only few relics remaining. Back in the day Mechanicus would have utilized Rhinos and Land Raiders just fine, but in modern times they didn't get to have those and first got some harebrained fluff to justify the absence of transports in the army and later got their own designs.
It's best to look at the field artillery the same way. Though only made by Forge World after 2nd ed, Tarantulas adopted the look of Marine heavy bolters rather than Guard ones. The Rapier is most associated with Horus Heresy, and thus Marines, in my experience. The Thudd Gun got a modern reimagining as the Thunderfire Cannon. I'd be willing to say that the classic Imperial artillery pieces aren't Imperial anymore in GW's eyes, but tied to Space Marines now, warranting new designs for Imperial Guard.
If you think of it like that, it's not even surprising that the artillery pieces aren't out there sci-fi designs but reasonably reminiscent of WW2 multiple missile launchers, howitzers and anti tank guns to go with the more WW2 feel a lot of Imperial Guard has.
Does anyone remember whether they said anything about special weapons in Cadian infantry squads? Because the army set picture shows the squads with two special weapons. So they get that instead of special and heavy?
Crimson wrote: Does anyone remember whether they said anything about special weapons in Cadian infantry squads? Because the army set picture shows the squads with two special weapons. So they get that instead of special and heavy?
Yes - basic Infantry Squads get a special & heavy, while Cadian Shock Troops get multiple special.
Now the next question is really how much the new kits will cost.
Box set will probably be like 210USD, I think that is what they have been going for lately, which man, bit too expensive for what it is to me without some steep discount. I dunno, I guess I'd rather it without the codex and cheaper, or with more models instead.
And he, based on Krieg, they might be asking 60USD for 10 of these guys. Again, personally, at that price I might stomach a box of 20, but we know that won't happen.
Long story short, to me at least even if the models are nice, this is probably dead on arrival.
I might have to bite the bullet and buy 1 box of the new Kasrkin when they come out however, to give a little glamour and pizaz to the metals I've got laying around...
Crimson wrote: The complaints (as usual) are completely ridiculous
with a lot of models, small changes on each make a big difference than 100% identical ones, with the big problem here being that only 4 legs are useful in a troop as the 2 running/dynamic ones will always stand out, specially if there is more than 1 unit
but hey, paying a premium price and than being happy with "good enough" as there is no real advantage over other companies metal/resin models (not even the price)
You are talking to guy to whom gw can do no wrong and all is perfect and anybody saying otherwise is wrong.
You are talking to guy to whom gw can do no wrong and all is perfect and anybody saying otherwise is wrong.
I've criticised them a lot. I'm just tired of all the absurd generated grievances. Like this nonsensical idea that models without waistjoint are "monopose". No one thought that skitarii or GS cultists were "monopose" when they were first released, but once the primaris used similar construction it was suddenly declared to be an anathema.
And the heavier heavy weapons... In a universe that gave us tarantulas, thudd guns, and mole mortars, they said 'Hey, what if we gave them a slightly larger lascannon!'
No different to flamer/plasma guns having heavy versions. IRL is often just "cannon" and "larger cannon". If anything it was a bit stupid that IG had a man portable lascannon, the idea of them having a less complex and larger one needing a gun carriage is okay with me. I think you just have to accept the long establish fact GW would rather say ER HEY IT'S A NEW TYPE OF SPACE MARINE/BOLTER/WEAPON instead of just being happy with replacing stuff. "Hey here's new true scale marines" or "Hey lascannons are now actually heavy-heavy weapons"
My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options. Just giving them access to lascannon-equipped tarantulas, or rapier laser destroyers would have been more interesting than 'bigger lascannon'.
YMMV, obviously.
Edit - and having said that, while the multi-missile launcher thing is ugly, I do like the cannon.
And no, I'm not entirely sure why 'bigger lascannon' is bad, but 'baby earthshaker' is good...
Something to consider in this regard is that GW these days wants armies to have designs of their own to strengthen faction identity. Where once upon a time Imperial tech was widely shared among its factions and justified with the STC fluff, not the least because GW had more limited production capacity then, they have largely moved away from that with only few relics remaining. Back in the day Mechanicus would have utilized Rhinos and Land Raiders just fine, but in modern times they didn't get to have those and first got some harebrained fluff to justify the absence of transports in the army and later got their own designs.
It's best to look at the field artillery the same way. Though only made by Forge World after 2nd ed, Tarantulas adopted the look of Marine heavy bolters rather than Guard ones. The Rapier is most associated with Horus Heresy, and thus Marines, in my experience. The Thudd Gun got a modern reimagining as the Thunderfire Cannon. I'd be willing to say that the classic Imperial artillery pieces aren't Imperial anymore in GW's eyes, but tied to Space Marines now, warranting new designs for Imperial Guard.
If you think of it like that, it's not even surprising that the artillery pieces aren't out there sci-fi designs but reasonably reminiscent of WW2 multiple missile launchers, howitzers and anti tank guns to go with the more WW2 feel a lot of Imperial Guard has.
Most iconic piece of artillery for guard to my eyes is the kreig earthshaker. Just looks perfect. Wish they would bring that to plastic
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NAVARRO wrote: Hard to know how these will be cut on the sprue, so it's a bit of early days to say they are monoposed.
If you have 2 different builds per model on a box of 10 thats 20 different enough poses. Its a lot of 'ifs' at this point because arms may be glued to torsos, or torso legs one part only etc etc...
Swarm like armies do struggle a bit with the model spam so any individuality on models will stand out a lot.
The design problem here is that theres limited space on a sprue to make 30 or 40 different minis.
More than the poses here IMO the proportions have changed... and not only to a more modern/updated look... they suffer the same blandness, common on 3D assets, seen in sisters. They are more serious now and somewhat more boring. GW needs to be careful here when it comes to human proportions since they may be compromising 40k character towards a more "realistic" feel which looks awful in these scales.
Not human, realistic or 40k but that happened to the new kruelboys in AoS and personally it failed the mark by 100%.
Gota disagree here. I prefer more serious looks and I wish chaos especially would move twords that instead of dinobots give us some truly horrific stuff. I mean what looks better possesed or gal vorbak? To my eyes gal vorbak every time.
insaniak wrote: My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options
Dude, this is literally how real world armies work. 60 mm mortar on company level, 81 mm mortar on battalion level, 120 mm on regiment/brigade level. Ditto with guns, anti-tank missiles, artillery, machine guns, and other support weapon systems, light ones are assigned to platoons (HWT in 40K parliance) while heavier versions (what we're getting now) are deployed with higher level units to provide support where needed. I really don't get complains Guard finally is having that gap filled. Oh no, GW decided to make IG closer to actual, real military, the game is ruined!
Just giving them access to lascannon-equipped tarantulas, or rapier laser destroyers would have been more interesting than 'bigger lascannon'.
You mean technologically advanced, techmarine-required (or, in laser destroyer, outright relic) weapons that Imperium barely manages to supply for Space Marines? The ones that don't fit the Guard fluff, theme, or common sense at all? What? How that would be in any way, shape or form better?
JWBS wrote: I too wish that they were multipose, like the old Cadians, and indeed all kits of yesteryear.
Ah, yes, ""all"" MuLtiPoSe kits of yesteryear, just look at the variation here:
Spoiler:
kurhanik wrote: For example, the Scion Plasmagun is held in a manner that you cannot pose the model actually shooting it, and the default setup is that they are holding the gun at an angle with one arm while pointing with the other. You can fix things up a bit by having the model point up, down, or forwards, or putting a different arm on it (say a pistol or the like), but in the end it still looks kind of silly having a full unit with 4 plasmagunners all casually hoisting their gun weirdly and pointing.
Shh, don't tell the MuLtiPoSe crowd that multipart MuLtiPoSe plasma scion is one of the worst monopose offenders (and nobody show them Dark/Blood Angel terminators, or their heads might explode!). That would be like clubbing a seal with facts. Pure animal cruelty
Really, the new ""monopose"" SM/IG produce way more varied poses and miniatures with alt builds than any MuLtiPoSe kit ever could. I especially like whining about legs, when these actually connect to the torso in organic, fluid way (not to mention don't lack half of the spine like most MuLtiPoSe kits) and old boxes mostly contained nearly identical leg sets that looked comical if you didn't glue them to torso in a single, very precise way that produced clones looking nowhere near as good as new bodies.
Really, new Primaris kits (that glue very precisely into natural, very nice mini but can also be easily converted if you cut small tab revealing socket below) are best of both worlds. After building 10 of old supposedly MuLtiPoSe terminators mixed with DA bits (activity that should be mandatory for everyone claiming old models could produce any varied/good poses or were easy to convert) I have no idea how anyone can want to go back to old, gak ways of doing stuff...
Dude, this is literally how real world armies work.
Well, real-world armies don't fight 2-meters tall muscle-bound walking mushrooms and don't have to worry about the implications of orbital deployment and effective directed energy weapons either. If you catch my drift.
GiToRaZor wrote: I do notice, that in style this moves Cadia away from Cold War area NATO troops and more towards US in Korea/Vietnam in gear.
What do you mean ? The US army is literally a NATO army and the Korean and Vietnam wars were part of the Cold War
You're right, I should have been more specific. I meant 80-90's NATO, while with oversized assualt rifles. As opposed to 50s-70s, where you had a mix of assault and carbine rifles. As well as a generally less bulky look on the soldiers. Also the helmet reminds me more of the M1 and not the PASGT (I had to look these words up)
In addition to tripod-mounted heavy weapons, Astra Militarum regiments have begun wheeling larger artillery pieces to the front lines. Equipped with large-bore cannons, multi-missile launchers, or heavy, overcharged lascannons, Field Ordnance Batteries are the most powerful man-portable assets available.
So I'm guessing each gun in the battery you take also requires you to take a squad of Ogryn. Because it'll probably take an entire squad each to make those things "man-portable".
Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.
Unfortunatly I'm not a big fan of the ordnance thingies. When I heard from them I was looking forward to something like that but they do look incredibly heavy. Maybe it's something you have to look at some dozen times before you start to like it...
In addition to tripod-mounted heavy weapons, Astra Militarum regiments have begun wheeling larger artillery pieces to the front lines. Equipped with large-bore cannons, multi-missile launchers, or heavy, overcharged lascannons, Field Ordnance Batteries are the most powerful man-portable assets available.
So I'm guessing each gun in the battery you take also requires you to take a squad of Ogryn. Because it'll probably take an entire squad each to make those things "man-portable".
Pyroalchi wrote: Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.
It's so weird to me that this is a complaint. Not trying to single you out specifically Pyro, just you're the most recent one to voice it.
It's an incredibly common feature in a lot of tactical uniforms here in the US...but maybe that's why it feels so weird to me as a complaint, since it's relatively commonplace to see?
Personally, I love everything about these new Cadians. I do wish they all had gloved hands though.
Pyroalchi wrote: Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.
It's so weird to me that this is a complaint. Not trying to single you out specifically Pyro, just you're the most recent one to voice it.
It's an incredibly common feature in a lot of tactical uniforms here in the US...but maybe that's why it feels so weird to me as a complaint, since it's relatively commonplace to see?
Personally, I love everything about these new Cadians. I do wish they all had gloved hands though.
I understand the complaint. It's a change and like any change there will be folks love it, those who don't, and those (like myself) who don't feel strongly one way or the other. Overall, I do like the new models and, as someone who plays via TTS, I might have to try to modify some of the models to adopt some of the features I like (such as the longer jackets).
Pyroalchi wrote: Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.
It's so weird to me that this is a complaint. Not trying to single you out specifically Pyro, just you're the most recent one to voice it.
It's an incredibly common feature in a lot of tactical uniforms here in the US...but maybe that's why it feels so weird to me as a complaint, since it's relatively commonplace to see?
No, the problem is that it is not how kneepads work. They should stick to the wearer's knee and not just hang from the pants, that's their whole point. Even modern integrated kneepads have special fixing bands to keep the kneepads over the knee - you can see them on this pic - those tiny things on the new Cadians just look silly by comparison.
Some more pictures of the Kasrkins. Of interest, to me, at least, is the cable-less Hotshot-Sniper
So we already know the unit entry. One model can have a Plasma Gun, one model can have a Grenade Launcher, and one model can have a Sniper Rifle.
Brilliant rules.
On stream they said two guys could have each.
Gert wrote: Why is the number of poses that big a deal for an army where you're supposed to be running masses of things? Of all the units to be dynamic for every single model, Guardsmen are not what jumps to the top of the list IMO.
Space Marines, sure you don't get a lot of them in an army and similar poses are sometimes noticeable but also pretty easy to sort cos, Bitz. But Guardsmen are the faceless masses that look the same as their 80 other comrades because individuality doesn't matter when you are a little better than a number with a gun.
In b4 "but when you have two guys in exactly the same dynamic pose then you notice them more" mental gymnastics.
Gert wrote: So what I'm hearing is that if your opponent is putting down 80 Guardsmen, 3 HWT, 4 Russes, 2 Chimeras, a Basilisk, 2 Commanders and a Commisar, that it will irritate you that every one in every 20 models will have a similar pose?
What I'm hearing is you trying to ridicule and belittle people who have issues with that.
But no, it's seeing the same ten bodies in the same ten poses eight times in the army. Even if you change the arms and the head, it's usually noticeable enough, and the more noticeable the more "out there" the poses are.
Some opinions are deserving of ridicule. You're entitle to have opinions, you're not entitled to have those opinions treated fairly or respected.
JWBS wrote: I too wish that they were multipose, like the old Cadians, and indeed all kits of yesteryear.
Ah, yes, ""all"" MuLtiPoSe kits of yesteryear, just look at the variation here:
Careful, you might make someone angry by shattering their rose-tinted nostalgia goggles. This is where the "repetitive dynamic posing stands out too much" defense came from. The moment someone pointed out that in the past 60% of models in any given unit were basically identical they had to jump from "the models are all the same" to "well I don't mind if they are all the same as long as they are all in a boring bland pose with no character".
Personally, new Cadians are ace, all of them. I never cared for Cadians before, I will be buying them in droves.
well, back in the bast of the original GW monopose plastics, those were accepted because they were cheap
metal looked better, but was more expensive
now the plastics are more expensive than the metal ones and the only defence is "monopose was always normal, it does not matter"
no problem with those if they were cheap, but for a premium price I want a premium product and having double bodies in a unit of 10 is not worth a premium price
simple as that
if you think those are worth your money, do it, but they are not worth mine as long as I can get similar or better for less
kodos wrote: well, back in the bast of the original GW monopose plastics, those were accepted because they were cheap
metal looked better, but was more expensive
now the plastics are more expensive than the metal ones and the only defence is "monopose was always normal, it does not matter"
no problem with those if they were cheap, but for a premium price I want a premium product and having double bodies in a unit of 10 is not worth a premium price
simple as that
if you think those are worth your money, do it, but they are not worth mine as long as I can get similar or better for less
Basically this, yes. And nowadays, I can choose between literal thousands of 3d designs to print for peanuts, even counting the costs of the files. And at worst I'll have the same issue of repeated poses. But for a fraction of the price.
But mostly I really don't like the aesthetic of the new Cadians in general, so I'm a happy camper with my currently owned 300 IGs without needing to buy any of these.
Pyroalchi wrote: Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.
It's so weird to me that this is a complaint. Not trying to single you out specifically Pyro, just you're the most recent one to voice it.
It's an incredibly common feature in a lot of tactical uniforms here in the US...but maybe that's why it feels so weird to me as a complaint, since it's relatively commonplace to see?
[...]
Fair enough. Maybe it has something to do with how they are painted. Somehow when I think of kneepads in the sense of something that is there to protect the knee I would expect it to be... bigger and really cover it. But I just googled a bit how military pants with kneepads look like at the moment and my expectation just seemed to be wrong.
I think the part that weirds me out the most about the new sculpts, now that I think about it, is the cloth necks of the uniform. Not only they are ginormous, but completely rigid. And of course, being that big contrast weirdly with the heads, that are now quite undersized, particularly the helmets.
Albertorius wrote: I think the part that weirds me out the most about the new sculpts, now that I think about it, is the cloth necks of the uniform. Not only they are ginormous, but completely rigid. And of course, being that big contrast weirdly with the heads, that are now quite undersized, particularly the helmets.
I find the black... chin strap thing, I guess, that covers the lower jaw really weird. I don't mind the rigid collar. I don't know if I'd gone with a high neck for the shirt, but okay. But instead of a normal strap they have that weirdly shaped thing that doesn't just cover part of the face but seems to extend under the jaw as well? Except at the same time the flamer dude with the covered face has a normal strap on his helmet. And is the black thing part of the shirt? A hood, as the sergeant with the cap suggests? But why do some have padded chins and others don't? I don't know what that is all about, but I don't particularly care for it.
And I say that as someone who likes the new look overall.
JWBS wrote: I too wish that they were multipose, like the old Cadians, and indeed all kits of yesteryear.
Ah, yes, ""all"" MuLtiPoSe kits of yesteryear, just look at the variation here:
Careful, you might make someone angry by shattering their rose-tinted nostalgia goggles. This is where the "repetitive dynamic posing stands out too much" defense came from. The moment someone pointed out that in the past 60% of models in any given unit were basically identical they had to jump from "the models are all the same" to "well I don't mind if they are all the same as long as they are all in a boring bland pose with no character".
Personally, new Cadians are ace, all of them. I never cared for Cadians before, I will be buying them in droves.
Looks as though an obviously insincere statement has somehow been mistaken as earnest. How comical.
Albertorius wrote: I think the part that weirds me out the most about the new sculpts, now that I think about it, is the cloth necks of the uniform. Not only they are ginormous, but completely rigid. And of course, being that big contrast weirdly with the heads, that are now quite undersized, particularly the helmets.
I find the black... chin strap thing, I guess, that covers the lower jaw really weird.
Albertorius wrote: I think the part that weirds me out the most about the new sculpts, now that I think about it, is the cloth necks of the uniform. Not only they are ginormous, but completely rigid. And of course, being that big contrast weirdly with the heads, that are now quite undersized, particularly the helmets.
I find the black... chin strap thing, I guess, that covers the lower jaw really weird.
That's certainly true. It's part of why I wonder how that particular fashion trend has found its way to Cadia. Is there some real life counterpart to it which GW copied? If not, it's all kinds of weird that they dropped the classic look for something that's already taken by a Xenos faction.
Geifer wrote: Is there some real life counterpart to it which GW copied? If not, it's all kinds of weird that they dropped the classic look for something that's already taken by a Xenos faction.
The Tau has it because that's where the fire warrior helmet slots in at the bottom of the Tau's face. Otherwise, it is a kind of uncommon sci-fi gear piece. Some of the rebel soldiers on Hoth also had them in Star Wars but AFAIK it is mostly associated with cyberpunk character design.
Albertorius wrote: I think the part that weirds me out the most about the new sculpts, now that I think about it, is the cloth necks of the uniform. Not only they are ginormous, but completely rigid. And of course, being that big contrast weirdly with the heads, that are now quite undersized, particularly the helmets.
I find the black... chin strap thing, I guess, that covers the lower jaw really weird.
I'll help: they look weird on guardsmen because they have been a Tau thing so far.
That's certainly true. It's part of why I wonder how that particular fashion trend has found its way to Cadia. Is there some real life counterpart to it which GW copied?
Yeah. A non-sci-fi version was popular in WW2 with Panzergrenadiers. They also had helmets similar to some of those that come with the new Cadians, camo and all.
Scorpionee wrote: [
Yeah. A non-sci-fi version was popular in WW2 with Panzergrenadiers.
That's a different piece of clothing. It is a long tube-like scarf one could pull over their head like this. As far as I'm aware, that gear piece on the Cadians has no real-life equivalent at all.
Gert wrote: So what I'm hearing is that if your opponent is putting down 80 Guardsmen, 3 HWT, 4 Russes, 2 Chimeras, a Basilisk, 2 Commanders and a Commisar, that it will irritate you that every one in every 20 models will have a similar pose?
What I'm hearing is you trying to ridicule and belittle people who have issues with that.
But no, it's seeing the same ten bodies in the same ten poses eight times in the army. Even if you change the arms and the head, it's usually noticeable enough, and the more noticeable the more "out there" the poses are.
The old kit had five leg poses, the torsos looked stupid if rotated more than a micron, and the clumpy rifles waving in odd directions is the only real choice. This kit seems like a flat upgrade for variety.
This. The only element of customisation the new models will lack is the possibility of turning the torso a tiny bit, but as there will actually be more different bodies, you will get more variety and the poses actually look natural. I'm sure you can freely put any arms on any body. The complaints (as usual) are completely ridiculous.
Really, the new ""monopose"" SM/IG produce way more varied poses and miniatures with alt builds than any MuLtiPoSe kit ever could. I especially like whining about legs, when these actually connect to the torso in organic, fluid way (not to mention don't lack half of the spine like most MuLtiPoSe kits) and old boxes mostly contained nearly identical leg sets that looked comical if you didn't glue them to torso in a single, very precise way that produced clones looking nowhere near as good as new bodies.
Really, new Primaris kits (that glue very precisely into natural, very nice mini but can also be easily converted if you cut small tab revealing socket below) are best of both worlds. After building 10 of old supposedly MuLtiPoSe terminators mixed with DA bits (activity that should be mandatory for everyone claiming old models could produce any varied/good poses or were easy to convert) I have no idea how anyone can want to go back to old, gak ways of doing stuff...
Careful, you might make someone angry by shattering their rose-tinted nostalgia goggles. This is where the "repetitive dynamic posing stands out too much" defense came from. The moment someone pointed out that in the past 60% of models in any given unit were basically identical they had to jump from "the models are all the same" to "well I don't mind if they are all the same as long as they are all in a boring bland pose with no character".
Alllll truuuue. I'm glad people are pushing back at the "poseability" freaks with observations like this.
It's wild that people are so un-self-reflective that they can look back on that 3rd/4th ish era of kits and delude themselves into thinking they were generating, like, creative poses that didn't repeat through an army and made every model unique, when in actuality they were repeating generic, widespread posing "choices" and ending up with models that looked the same as everybody else's (and ugly as hell whenever the limits of the models' poseability were pushed even slightly). These people are in love with the feeling they had while assembling the models (often in their youth or childhood) and not the actual results that were produced.
And you can still get that feeling, you just need to learn to chop up, file down, bend, extend, etc. plastic kits. Yet some people just want lazy adult Lego.
As a general reminder to the thread: It's possible to disagree with someone's opinion without being rude about it. Let's give it a try from here on out, hmm?
TheBestBucketHead wrote: Repeated poses aren't really an issue, it's when the poses are all extremely dynamic, so repeats end up an eyesore. New Ork Boyz are that for me.
It won't matter that you say this. As it hasn't mattered any of the other five hundred times it's been said. People just wanna earn internet points, facts be damned.
So we've reached the height of dishonesty now, just flat out pretending that models in the past weren't multipose and that the minis we have today are no different at all to what came before.
I like the kasrkin and cadians, judging by lining an old cadian up to my screen till his base only just obscures that of these guys they are the same heigh, just slimmed down to something approaching actual human dimensions. I like the M14 style lasguns. I think the heavier breaching armour/additional flak armour on the killteam guy is an interesting addition for the kasrkins, certainly a specialist item.
I am personally not too woried about static posing. That is what a good model saw, a sharp knife and green stuff is for.
I do not mind the look of the new armoured sentinel, but i do much prefer the older one. Its still much more of a recon vehicle, and sentinels do not have the best armour.
The artillery is an interesting idea. Seems to be some kind of battle cannon(really hope its not their idea of an auto cannon lol) the rocket launcher is not in my taste, and the singular las cannon is pissant on that heavy duty carriage. Especially when you consider something like a rapier laser destroyer and its comparative size and firepower.
Finally gives you something you can slap a russ battle cannon or vanquisher on and call an AT gun which i cannot argue with. Now we just need a little plastic something to tow it:
A certain OOP resin tracked vehicle named for a half man half horse being of greek mythology comes quickly to mind...
Alternatively you could kitbash it with a taurox or chimera in an attempt to make an WW2 style light tank hunter or infantry support vehicle. Like the US M3 GMC or up gunned German half tracks and 8x8 armoured cars.
It boggles the mind that someone would defend cut-apart CAD components with no pose potential. Over separate modular components, when it comes to a plastic kit.
The hobby as a whole, GW or otherwise wins when a multi-part kit is released. But, then again if a company thinks THEY ARE IT, why make something that any hobbyist could use?
You can combine any of those leg pieces with any of those chests, any head and any pair of arms. You can rotate and position them yourself without problem too. If that isn't multi-pose then just what definition of that are you using? Because if those don't count with that degree, then that means nothing should.
I mean, yeah, the fact that the studio has chosen to assemble them in very similar poses doesn't change the part breakdown, or the versatility it provides.
Ultimately, whether or not a slight rotation of the torso or a slight repositioning of the arms is enough to stop the models from all looking like clones of each other is going to come down to personal opinion and whether or not you personally notice those fine details. But acting like it's an absurd thing to want because you personally don't care is an odd take.
It's probably time to stop having this same discussion with every new GW release, though. They're very firmly on the 'Pretty, dynamic models take precedence over modeling versatility' path at the moment, and that's unlikely to change so long as the models keep selling.
TheBestBucketHead wrote: Repeated poses aren't really an issue, it's when the poses are all extremely dynamic, so repeats end up an eyesore. New Ork Boyz are that for me.
Repeats don't bother me in the slightest and I hardly notice them. The only thing I dislike about the new Ork Boyz kit is the fact that the weapon options are limited and you can't build a uniform unit loadout out of a single box.
It's probably time to stop having this same discussion with every new GW release, though. They're very firmly on the 'Pretty, dynamic models take precedence over modeling versatility' path at the moment, and that's unlikely to change so long as the models keep selling.
This. Personally I will always prefer pretty and dynamic poses over a bucket-load of humdrum sculpts that have been aesthetically comprimised over the need to try to create "modularity" which only ends up resulting in 60-80% of your minis basically looking identical with only minor variations of angle of weapon, head, and torso to differentiate them.
I hate pretty and dynamic poses for my wargame miniatures. I prefer they look like they're all doing stuff that makes sense for a fight, like running, holding their guns, et cetera. But it comes down to a matter of taste. I won't buy most HQ minis Warhammer puts out now because I hate the poses, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Let me clarify that I don't hate pretty models, just the stupid poses every other model does in a lot of monopose models GW makes. I don't want a miniature of my Guardsman pulling a grenade by his teeth while jumping and holding a chainsword ready to attack, as the only build for him, and have one in ten models look almost exactly the same. It's boring, repetitive, and takes a lot of the cool factor away when I have eight other models doing the same exact thing.
This might be an exaggeration, but it's similar with some new models, where cultists and accursed cultists just seem like they'd have tons of repeats, which takes a lot of flair from them.
It's a problem with tactical rocks and huge scenic bases, too. It immediately draws me away from this being a battle into "These are game pieces." It ruins my immersion.
10 similar models, but none is the same for half the price is now worse than 5 different models with duplicates within a squad
that you have duplicates in army is one thing, but paying more to have duplicates within a unit, I just can't see a good point to defend this
the unit is going to be expensive enough and GW has the technology so that we could have 10 different models
the funny part here is that duplicates are ok for GW but the worst for other manufacturers (WM/H gets hate for having the same number of duplicates for the same price but it is totally fine for GW)
But maybe the new squad turns out to be cheaper than the current one, than it could be acceptable
There are four models with their left leg only on the ground. Two have their right leg ahead of it, two have it behind. That is a duplication of two leg sets, not four of one.
i think you are correct, 10 legs. Plus another ~5 from the command squad, and ~2 from the emplaced heavy weapons. Should be enough for anyone who cares about "variety."
kodos wrote:10 similar models, but none is the same for half the price is now worse than 5 different models with duplicates within a squad
that you have duplicates in army is one thing, but paying more to have duplicates within a unit, I just can't see a good point to defend this
the unit is going to be expensive enough and GW has the technology so that we could have 10 different models
the funny part here is that duplicates are ok for GW but the worst for other manufacturers (WM/H gets hate for having the same number of duplicates for the same price but it is totally fine for GW)
But maybe the new squad turns out to be cheaper than the current one, than it could be acceptable
Oh great! The monopose versus multipose debate again.
Multipose: you can twist it a fraction of a millimetre before you get something that looks like a bad action figure. Who’re we kidding, they all look like bad action figures anyway. What’s the point in them all looking slightly different if they just look like different turds?
Vs.
Multipose: the sculpts look great, but in an army you’ll notice repeated minis. How much that bothers you is up to you.
Only that it's false fallacy that the models look bad because you can change the pose. That's just argument from those who know they have lost the argument already because facts don't support them.
tneva82 wrote: Only that it's false fallacy that the models look bad because you can change the pose. That's just argument from those who know they have lost the argument already because facts don't support them.
Except it’s not. You twist any of those old kits at the waist and they instantly look bad, because that’s not how the human body works. You don’t twist them and they look bad because they’re sculpted without any natural movement. That’s why all modern kits have the legs and torso as one piece.
GiToRaZor wrote: Does anyone know which size the base of the field guns might be? I'd like to base my Forgeworld Artillery pieces for count as purposes.
tneva82 wrote: Only that it's false fallacy that the models look bad because you can change the pose. That's just argument from those who know they have lost the argument already because facts don't support them.
Except it’s not. You twist any of those old kits at the waist and they instantly look bad, because that’s not how the human body works. You don’t twist them and they look bad because they’re sculpted without any natural movement. That’s why all modern kits have the legs and torso as one piece.
sir, you won the internet, this is the biggest bs I read in a long while
you just made the argument that a golf swing is impossible for the human body to justify one piece bodies in model kits
no, there are other reasons why legs and torsos are one piece than human anatomy, and this is also not for modern kits.
one piece models are the basic and oldest ones, simply because they are much easier to make (and assembled) than multi part kits
PS: and if there is one GW never cared regarding their model kits it is the human anatomy, if you think the models are close the reality you haven't seen a real human in a long time
GiToRaZor wrote: Does anyone know which size the base of the field guns might be? I'd like to base my Forgeworld Artillery pieces for count as purposes.
Great looking models. I wasn't expecting the emplacement weapons, and I've always thought that was something Guard needed more of.
The Kasrkin look really good, I never liked the old metal ones. These new ones look aces to me. Assuming they can all just have volly guns, that's how I'd like to run them.
The Cadian Shock troopers are fantastic. Are they going to be troops? Or will they get stuck in one of the other slots?
The new Commissar is amazing. I love that model for it's simplicity and for the fact that it fits the army aesthetic without being covered in useless bling!
the funny part here is that duplicates are ok for GW but the worst for other manufacturers (WM/H gets hate for having the same number of duplicates for the same price but it is totally fine for GW)
Warmachine gets hate for it because they have a habit of having a 10 man squad be the Leader, 3x Pose A, 3x Pose B, and 3x Pose C. There's a huge difference between repeat poses across an army and multiples of a repeat pose in the same unit.
tneva82 wrote: Only that it's false fallacy that the models look bad because you can change the pose. That's just argument from those who know they have lost the argument already because facts don't support them.
Except it’s not. You twist any of those old kits at the waist and they instantly look bad, because that’s not how the human body works. You don’t twist them and they look bad because they’re sculpted without any natural movement. That’s why all modern kits have the legs and torso as one piece.
I think a word that should be inserted here is 'modular'. The outgoing Cadian kits were modular, there were 3 kits (Command, Troops, Heavy Weapons) that would be interchanged seamlessly. You could use a HW kit to make a kneeing rifleman. You could use Command arms and heads to give your vet troopers more character. You could swap in arms from Empire, Catachan, Adeptus Mech or other human kits. Even Marines.
By contrast a lot of the Kill Team and Necromunda kits are not. Each Necro gang seem to have their own head and arm joints and need putty or filing to mix and match.
Don't forget the IG is the average joe army. People want to be able to do some unique poses like digging a foxhole, smoking a cigarette, standing at attention etc. And more arms and more poses only helps that.
And that I think is what people miss.
As for repeated poses, they're fine if they make sense. A squad of 10 guys shooting from the shoulder looks great. A squad where one guy is aiming, one guy is jumping off a rock, one guy is leaning on the wall drinking coffee however... is not.
I dont post much so this might have been covered already.
With the Codex coming out later than this new Army Box by the looks...are people concerned about making up the box, gluing etc, before they see what the incoming codex has to offer and limit?
VAYASEN wrote: I dont post much so this might have been covered already.
With the Codex coming out later than this new Army Box by the looks...are people concerned about making up the box, gluing etc, before they see what the incoming codex has to offer and limit?
The box comes with the codex. They just didn't show it off because the cover shows a model they haven't previewed. You should be good to go.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I think a word that should be inserted here is 'modular'. The outgoing Cadian kits were modular, there were 3 kits (Command, Troops, Heavy Weapons) that would be interchanged seamlessly. You could use a HW kit to make a kneeing rifleman. You could use Command arms and heads to give your vet troopers more character. You could swap in arms from Empire, Catachan, Adeptus Mech or other human kits. Even Marines.
By contrast a lot of the Kill Team and Necromunda kits are not. Each Necro gang seem to have their own head and arm joints and need putty or filing to mix and match.
This is a more accurate term. And your point is very well made. The Necromunda kits are a good example of what I find frustrating about modern GW kits. I want the ability to swap around weapon loadouts and customize poses more readily. Even if it is only pivoting the waist or shoulder, it really helps. The way the new kits go together makes that a massive pain.
VAYASEN wrote: I dont post much so this might have been covered already.
With the Codex coming out later than this new Army Box by the looks...are people concerned about making up the box, gluing etc, before they see what the incoming codex has to offer and limit?
The box comes with the codex. They just didn't show it off because the cover shows a model they haven't previewed. You should be good to go.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I think a word that should be inserted here is 'modular'. The outgoing Cadian kits were modular, there were 3 kits (Command, Troops, Heavy Weapons) that would be interchanged seamlessly. You could use a HW kit to make a kneeing rifleman. You could use Command arms and heads to give your vet troopers more character. You could swap in arms from Empire, Catachan, Adeptus Mech or other human kits. Even Marines.
By contrast a lot of the Kill Team and Necromunda kits are not. Each Necro gang seem to have their own head and arm joints and need putty or filing to mix and match.
This is a more accurate term. And your point is very well made. The Necromunda kits are a good example of what I find frustrating about modern GW kits. I want the ability to swap around weapon loadouts and customize poses more readily. Even if it is only pivoting the waist or shoulder, it really helps. The way the new kits go together makes that a massive pain.
Ah right. Somebody had told me the Codex might be February...while the Army Box might be Oct/Nov? This all nonsense then?
Ah right. Somebody had told me the Codex might be February...while the Army Box might be Oct/Nov? This all nonsense then?
Non-sense? No. But the launch box has codex in itself with special cover art which might or might not be more appealing to you(I found the SOB one be best and I was annoyed most from new book that no more special cover art) but rules are same.
So if you get launch box you have the new rules already and can assemble based on new codex.
Separate codex with rest of releases out later then.
tneva82 wrote: Only that it's false fallacy that the models look bad because you can change the pose. That's just argument from those who know they have lost the argument already because facts don't support them.
Except it’s not. You twist any of those old kits at the waist and they instantly look bad, because that’s not how the human body works. You don’t twist them and they look bad because they’re sculpted without any natural movement. That’s why all modern kits have the legs and torso as one piece.
I think a word that should be inserted here is 'modular'. The outgoing Cadian kits were modular, there were 3 kits (Command, Troops, Heavy Weapons) that would be interchanged seamlessly. You could use a HW kit to make a kneeing rifleman. You could use Command arms and heads to give your vet troopers more character. You could swap in arms from Empire, Catachan, Adeptus Mech or other human kits. Even Marines.
By contrast a lot of the Kill Team and Necromunda kits are not. Each Necro gang seem to have their own head and arm joints and need putty or filing to mix and match.
Don't forget the IG is the average joe army. People want to be able to do some unique poses like digging a foxhole, smoking a cigarette, standing at attention etc. And more arms and more poses only helps that.
And that I think is what people miss.
As for repeated poses, they're fine if they make sense. A squad of 10 guys shooting from the shoulder looks great. A squad where one guy is aiming, one guy is jumping off a rock, one guy is leaning on the wall drinking coffee however... is not.
They mentioned on the stream I think that you can swap arms between the command squad and the infantry squad. And if that’s the case I’d imagine the same is true of the heavy weapons squads and field artillery. If they aren’t overselling it (which I accept is a non-zero possibility), it should be pretty close to what the current kits are like except for the torso to leg joint, which most of the torsos were the same anyway and you can’t twist that joint much at all with the current kit until it looks weird.
Valkyrie wrote: Anyone have an idea what that howitzer-like field gun would be? Looks too big for an Autocannon, too small for a Battlecannon.
The shape is reminiscent of an earthshaker cannon, but smaller.
Fairly sure they described it as a smaller Earthshaker equivalent during the stream. Of course that’s my dodgy recollection of info given by the presenters on the stream who by no means gave accurate info in the first place.
Still looking forward to see what Ork players do to with those kits though.
I’ve seen mention on Dakka that the forthcoming Codex was removing a bunch of options, but I’ve not followed what those are said to be.
One I did glean from casual reading was Infantry Squads losing Heavy Weapons. Thanks to the livestream, we now know the rumour to have been a miscommunication. Whilst Cadian Shocktroop squads only get Special Weapons, Infantry Squads can still have Heavy Weapons.
So…..can someone offer me a comment-free list of the other things we’re being told as going bye bye?
I’ve seen mention on Dakka that the forthcoming Codex was removing a bunch of options, but I’ve not followed what those are said to be.
One I did glean from casual reading was Infantry Squads losing Heavy Weapons. Thanks to the livestream, we now know the rumour to have been a miscommunication. Whilst Cadian Shocktroop squads only get Special Weapons, Infantry Squads can still have Heavy Weapons.
So…..can someone offer me a comment-free list of the other things we’re being told as going bye bye?
Rumors were:
No HW in troop squads but 2 specials
Current vets (BS3+, 3 specials, 1 heavy) go away
Conscripts go away
Special Weapon teams go away
My GUESS is what we will see is
New Vet units for specific regiments (DKK, Cats and Cads at first)
Current troop squads remain the same, MAYBE with 2 special weapons allowed instead of a HW Current vets (BS3+, 3 specials, 1 heavy) go away
Conscripts go away
Special Weapon teams go away
My understanding is that we already know current infantry squads will remain the same and cadian shock troops are the ones that can't take a HW and take two different special weapons.
Though I’m wondering if, Stats Wise, Cadian Shock Troops might be Veterans for all intents and purposes. Can’t remember if the Livestream said how many Special Weapons they get. But I think they explicitly said each kit comes with two of each weapon. Though I may be confusing that with the Kasrkin. Who are lovely.
Though I’m wondering if, Stats Wise, Cadian Shock Troops might be Veterans for all intents and purposes. Can’t remember if the Livestream said how many Special Weapons they get. But I think they explicitly said each kit comes with two of each weapon. Though I may be confusing that with the Kasrkin. Who are lovely.
It was the Kasrkin they specifically said that about yeah.
Valkyrie wrote: Anyone have an idea what that howitzer-like field gun would be? Looks too big for an Autocannon, too small for a Battlecannon.
I'd guess about the same as a Taurox battlecannon, which will probably be upgraded slightly like most weapons are, so statwise something like the Predator Autocannon.
Kasrkin are not Scions and this is reflected in their rules - they get their own "trait", so you pick one for the army and can pick another one for the Kasrkin.
They are elite Cadian veterans, rather than Stormtroopers, but I think they will get access to similar weaponry by the looks of it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a mini-Earthshaker. Just being a slightly more different-er Autocannon would make it about as redundant as the slightly bigger lascannon.
It is angled like a direct-fire weapon, so I would also say it is something like the Taurox Battle Cannon or the Predator Autocannon.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a mini-Earthshaker. Just being a slightly more different-er Autocannon would make it about as redundant as the slightly bigger lascannon.
It is angled like a direct-fire weapon, so I would also say it is something like the Taurox Battle Cannon or the Predator Autocannon.
Pretty sure in the stream they said it is a mini-Earthshaker, so it fires indirectly.
I’ve seen mention on Dakka that the forthcoming Codex was removing a bunch of options, but I’ve not followed what those are said to be.
One I did glean from casual reading was Infantry Squads losing Heavy Weapons. Thanks to the livestream, we now know the rumour to have been a miscommunication. Whilst Cadian Shocktroop squads only get Special Weapons, Infantry Squads can still have Heavy Weapons.
So…..can someone offer me a comment-free list of the other things we’re being told as going bye bye?
Filter the thread by my postings and you can see what OK_Entrepeneur's listings were.
The HWTs going from Infantry Squads wasn't one of his though. He called it out for Cadians.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a mini-Earthshaker. Just being a slightly more different-er Autocannon would make it about as redundant as the slightly bigger lascannon.
It is angled like a direct-fire weapon, so I would also say it is something like the Taurox Battle Cannon or the Predator Autocannon.
Pretty sure in the stream they said it is a mini-Earthshaker, so it fires indirectly.
They said it was indirect, had 48" range, had D2 (and that this was less than the standard earthshaker)
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a mini-Earthshaker. Just being a slightly more different-er Autocannon would make it about as redundant as the slightly bigger lascannon.
It is angled like a direct-fire weapon, so I would also say it is something like the Taurox Battle Cannon or the Predator Autocannon.
Pretty sure in the stream they said it is a mini-Earthshaker, so it fires indirectly.
The statement was it hits like a mini-Earthshaker IIRC. The indirect fire part is up in the air.
It's called the "Bombast Field Cannon".
"Bombast" is, weirdly, a type of padding used to line the inside of garments or armor. Suggests a more defensive rather than offensive role though. Might not be indirect because of that.
I’ve seen mention on Dakka that the forthcoming Codex was removing a bunch of options, but I’ve not followed what those are said to be.
One I did glean from casual reading was Infantry Squads losing Heavy Weapons. Thanks to the livestream, we now know the rumour to have been a miscommunication. Whilst Cadian Shocktroop squads only get Special Weapons, Infantry Squads can still have Heavy Weapons.
So…..can someone offer me a comment-free list of the other things we’re being told as going bye bye?
Filter the thread by my postings and you can see what OK_Entrepeneur's listings were.
The HWTs going from Infantry Squads wasn't one of his though.
They specifically said that the HWT can be taken in infantry squads, but not by shook troops.
Also none else that noticed the voxes on the HWT models?
They specifically said that the HWT can be taken in infantry squads, but not by shook troops.
Which I was not really disputing in the quoted post. I think MDG is trying to track down some of the weirder rumors. OK_E is one of the few trackable sources. The whole "NO HWTS IN INFANTRY SQUADS!" thing started showing up on the usual dumpsterfire rumour mills after they made a mention of Cadian Shock Troops getting no HWTs...while conveniently leaving out that Shock Troops, Krieg, and Catachans are all getting their own datasheets per their rumours.
Also none else that noticed the voxes on the HWT models?
Heavy Weapon Squad models. There's a Sergeant in there.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a mini-Earthshaker. Just being a slightly more different-er Autocannon would make it about as redundant as the slightly bigger lascannon.
It is angled like a direct-fire weapon, so I would also say it is something like the Taurox Battle Cannon or the Predator Autocannon.
Pretty sure in the stream they said it is a mini-Earthshaker, so it fires indirectly.
The statement was it hits like a mini-Earthshaker IIRC. The indirect fire part is up in the air.
It's called the "Bombast Field Cannon".
"Bombast" is, weirdly, a type of padding used to line the inside of garments or armor. Suggests a more defensive rather than offensive role though. Might not be indirect because of that.
quote from the live stream, (if im not hearing it wrong) at 00:40:42
"if you think about it is its like a smaller earthshaker cannon, so you can shoot stuff you cant see, diches out multiple blast damage two shots"
They specifically said that the HWT can be taken in infantry squads, but not by shook troops.
Which I was not really disputing in the quoted post. I think MDG is trying to track down some of the weirder rumors. OK_E is one of the few trackable sources. The whole "NO HWTS IN INFANTRY SQUADS!" thing started showing up on the usual dumpsterfire rumour mills after they made a mention of Cadian Shock Troops getting no HWTs...while conveniently leaving out that Shock Troops, Krieg, and Catachans are all getting their own datasheets per their rumours.
Also none else that noticed the voxes on the HWT models?
Heavy Weapon Squad models. There's a Sergeant in there.
Do we have any confirmations on the base size of HWT? I tried to count pixels and compare to known things, nut this very inaccurate way of doing it game me 45mm :-D so no help there.
There's a whole bunch of hooplah about them being 50mm based while the Ordnance are 60mm based...but the latter is wrong as they called those out at 100mm.
quote from the live stream, (if im not hearing it wrong) at 00:40:42
"if you think about it is its like a smaller earthshaker cannon, so you can shoot stuff you cant see, diches out multiple blast damage two shots"
I'm okay with this. But then shouldn't the gun point upwards like the rocket launcher (or the actual Earthshaker, for that matter)? Artistic choice?
Kanluwen wrote: There's a whole bunch of hooplah about them being 50mm based while the Ordnance are 60mm based...but the latter is wrong as they called those out at 100mm.
I think the ‘hoopla’ (that I’ve seen anyway) is about the new ones being on 50mm while the current ones are on 60mm, nothing to do with the ordnance.
quote from the live stream, (if im not hearing it wrong) at 00:40:42
"if you think about it is its like a smaller earthshaker cannon, so you can shoot stuff you cant see, diches out multiple blast damage two shots"
I'm okay with this. But then shouldn't the gun point upwards like the rocket launcher (or the actual Earthshaker, for that matter)? Artistic choice?
I suspect it can direct fire as well as barrage fire. Certainly it seems the Missile Launcher Middle Ground (Middle Launcher?) of the three loadouts.
Cadians have a long and proud history of command, boasting some of the finest leaders in the Imperium. Like the indomitable Ursula Creed, their Castellans have decades of experience wielding the hammer of the Emperor, and work to ensure that the legacy of Ursakar E. Creed is alive and well.
Unlike regular Command Squads, Castellans don’t go into battle accompanied by a retinue. They move among their troops, issuing orders and directing fire wherever it’s needed, all while extending re-rolls to every CORE unit in range.
Astra Militarum officers can all boost the effectiveness of their Guardsmen with orders, but the Castellan can issue two per turn. Orders are a vital aspect of the war machine, encouraging units to hit harder, pin down foes, and surge across the battlefield in mass human waves.
This incredible new model is tremendously versatile, and comes with plenty of weapon options and four separate heads which you can use to make it truly your own. It can be used with any Astra Militarum army, Cadian or otherwise – even the Death Korps of Krieg and the Catachan Jungle Fighters need battlefield command.
Castellans are competent fighters in their own right, with a panoply of powerful equipment at their disposal. Many a foul traitor has tried to cut the head from the Imperial beast only to receive a power fist to the face for their trouble.
Join us next week for more Astra Militarum reveals as we continue the month-long celebration of humanity’s finest, which began at the Warhammer Day Preview Online. Subscribe to our newsletter to get the latest news delivered to your inbox, fresh from the Administratum.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also also? Castellan painted appropriately makes a better Commissar.
Were Castellans rumoured?
There was a rumour about a Lord Commissar with a power fist & plasma gun, standing on a tactical rock. It's possible that is an alternative option for this kit, or was just mixed up with it.
No, the problem is that it is not how kneepads work. They should stick to the wearer's knee and not just hang from the pants, that's their whole point. Even modern integrated kneepads have special fixing bands to keep the kneepads over the knee - you can see them on this pic - those tiny things on the new Cadians just look silly by comparison.
Yes, is it worth painting or modelling them on? I am thinking not because they don't bunch up around the knees like normal trousers and 'pads. Can't cut them off though and not have weird knees. Make them bigger?
Name is "Praetorian". Supposed to be kinda like the Churchill.
Yesterday i was speaking with a friend about how the Tanks in the new box artwork looks more like a M60 Patton than a Russ... and now this seems to fit that siloutte much better..
GiToRaZor wrote: The 'Heavier Weapons teams', well it's nice that they are there? It feels like there could have been a bit more polish to them. They look cartoonish in a bad way. But maybe it's just the paint job again. I do like that I could at least place Heavy Mortars and Thudd Guns under count as now (with hopefully no longer trash rules)
They do look bad, like cheap plastic toy conversions in the cannons case. Plus side? Can finally use those WW2 gun kits - excellent detail, good gun mantles, etc. I am struggling to know how you make them tough enough to survive, unless they get tank stats.
At least its pose is better than the current one, but my favorite is still by far the one reading from a book with his powerfist.
Noting I don't know all the old Commisars too well, so I could be drastically off here, but probably Fist Boy > Steel Legion Commissar > Lord Commisar > Female Commissar > This Guy > Current Commissar. I know I'm missing a few, but as I don't remember them I can't really rate them.
No, the problem is that it is not how kneepads work. They should stick to the wearer's knee and not just hang from the pants, that's their whole point. Even modern integrated kneepads have special fixing bands to keep the kneepads over the knee - you can see them on this pic - those tiny things on the new Cadians just look silly by comparison.
Yes, is it worth painting or modelling them on? I am thinking not because they don't bunch up around the knees like normal trousers and 'pads. Can't cut them off though and not have weird knees. Make them bigger?
Imo best option is to just cut them off with a blade and file the remaining bit into a knee, should take really low effort to do. If you do want to keep them, you can also cut them off and then reglue in a more proper place and make a "connection" band that goes behind the knee around the leg. I have been modifying and "fixing" GW minis for a long time as I am not keen with many things and just prefer to fix them myself, nowadays I just use sprue shavings and plastic glue with aplicator to rescult what I want on a model.
Sadly i've found recently that the newer models GW pulls out have a lot more things I dislike. From the weird "extruded/flat/" parts on models which I have to carve out to the really badly designed "functions" of the mini and the biggest offender ... faces, it's like the sculptors don't know what a human face looks like, or what hair looks like... worse are the female faces. I feel that it all started to go downhill in "thought" and design quality with the release of the Mario Kart for SM.
Don't get me wrong, I generally like most models but then they have a really big big big thing thats soo poorly designed that I just say nah, im good. Like for example, what bothers me more for the new cadian sculpts is the big/weird hands and if you look at the new kaskrin the problem isn't there :( Thinking about it I think that those are gloved and make more sense whilst being the exact same size
insaniak wrote: Wow... I had thought that any update of the plastic Cadians with GW's current sculpting aesthetic was going to be amazing. But this release is oddly uninspiring.
Yes. I have thousands of infantry models from all sorts of manufacturers. I have made some brilliant multipart guys (my favourite is my anvil chap - a Sikh sniper having a break sitting on a gun carriage and having a drink). I have scores of monopose. From Sci-fi through to great war. But these aren't enthusing me.
The Sentinel is a redesign of a model that really didn't need a redesign, and doesn't look as nice as the model it replaces.
Yes chunkier scout vehicle isn't a good look, but probably better for Necromunda conversions. If you look at the Primaris stuff though it fits the new chunky asthetic/manufacturing directive.
OH and again......it looks like the models are on bigger bases.
Will use some kind of disc and bluetack. I am not having command staff that will often be mixed into my squads (for looks, if I am not fielding them as command squad) being out of place with different base sizes.
Don't forget the IG is the average joe army. People want to be able to do some unique poses like digging a foxhole, smoking a cigarette, standing at attention etc. And more arms and more poses only helps that.
If you encounter Anvil at a show they bring a bits crate with them. Great fun, get to make all those guardsmen you have always dreamed of...
I like that they mentioned that the "Junior Officers" runa round with a retinue. That means there is a slight chance we might see the return of the Command Squad that is not a Character for Assassination purposes.
In equal levels I don't like the notion that all Senior Officers are now Castellans and they don't have a Command Squad. Makes neither sense from a lore nore gameplay mechanic. Guard Characters need any chance they can get at survival.
I like to hear that Orders are still a thing and that Go Go Go (or was it Move Move Move?) is still present.
Still waiting on any meaningful changes though. I mean replacing Veterans with Cadian Shock Troops is currently a minus in firepower, as we haven't heard anything about special rules so far. The next weeks will likely tell us.
And thanks to the people that answered my base size question. (even though I think 4,70€ is quite the shocking price for one base.....)
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a mini-Earthshaker. Just being a slightly more different-er Autocannon would make it about as redundant as the slightly bigger lascannon.
It is angled like a direct-fire weapon, so I would also say it is something like the Taurox Battle Cannon or the Predator Autocannon.
Pretty sure in the stream they said it is a mini-Earthshaker, so it fires indirectly.
The statement was it hits like a mini-Earthshaker IIRC. The indirect fire part is up in the air.
It's called the "Bombast Field Cannon".
"Bombast" is, weirdly, a type of padding used to line the inside of garments or armor. Suggests a more defensive rather than offensive role though. Might not be indirect because of that.
I assumed by "Bombast" they were trying to invoke the term "Bombard", but different. I don't think the name is meant to imply on anything other than that, otherwise the dictionary definition of bombast is basically just "big talk with no meaning".
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a mini-Earthshaker. Just being a slightly more different-er Autocannon would make it about as redundant as the slightly bigger lascannon.
It is angled like a direct-fire weapon, so I would also say it is something like the Taurox Battle Cannon or the Predator Autocannon.
Pretty sure in the stream they said it is a mini-Earthshaker, so it fires indirectly.
The statement was it hits like a mini-Earthshaker IIRC. The indirect fire part is up in the air.
It's called the "Bombast Field Cannon".
"Bombast" is, weirdly, a type of padding used to line the inside of garments or armor. Suggests a more defensive rather than offensive role though. Might not be indirect because of that.
I assumed by "Bombast" they were trying to invoke the term "Bombard", but different. I don't think the name is meant to imply on anything other than that, otherwise the dictionary definition of bombast is basically just "big talk with no meaning".
chaos0xomega wrote: I assumed by "Bombast" they were trying to invoke the term "Bombard", but different. I don't think the name is meant to imply on anything other than that, otherwise the dictionary definition of bombast is basically just "big talk with no meaning".
Once I learned that meaning of bombast, it put me in the mindset of the "aegis"/"phalanx" close-in systems...just taken to the guard mindset of "PROTECTION BOOM"!
My personal pet pevee with this release - ironically, not actually directly related to this release - is the fact that after actual literal decades of waiting we finally got a plastic Traitor Guard kit, only for it to be rendered outdated within a few months by the fact the Guardsmen themselves were redesigned, making their Traitor counterparts look noticeably outdated, given they were based on the previous kit.
Different shoulderpad design, different helmet design, different chestplate design, different boot design, different belt design, no kneepads, no tactical webbing, no black-neck-scarf-thing, no backpacks redesigned bottom of the jacket so that it's now more detailed and actually looks like it's got pants underneath, instead of being a solid chunk - all of these combine to make the Traitor Guard look noticeably older than the Loyalist Guard, even though they were released barely a few months apart.
Scorpionee wrote: My personal pet pevee with this release - ironically, not actually directly related to this release - is the fact that after actual literal decades of waiting we finally got a plastic Traitor Guard kit, only for it to be rendered outdated within a few months by the fact the Guardsmen themselves were redesigned, making their Traitor counterparts look noticeably outdated, given they were based on the previous kit.
Different shoulderpad design, different helmet design, different chestplate design, different boot design, different belt design, no kneepads, no tactical webbing, no black-neck-scarf-thing, no backpacks redesigned bottom of the jacket so that it's now more detailed and actually looks like it's got pants underneath, instead of being a solid chunk - all of these combine to make the Traitor Guard look noticeably older than the Loyalist Guard, even though they were released barely a few months apart.
I don't see how that's a problem, it's not like there's one style of uniform. Just think of it as a different variation of similar yet different equipment in the same way there is entirely different regiments.
Scorpionee wrote: My personal pet pevee with this release - ironically, not actually directly related to this release - is the fact that after actual literal decades of waiting we finally got a plastic Traitor Guard kit, only for it to be rendered outdated within a few months by the fact the Guardsmen themselves were redesigned, making their Traitor counterparts look noticeably outdated, given they were based on the previous kit.
Different shoulderpad design, different helmet design, different chestplate design, different boot design, different belt design, no kneepads, no tactical webbing, no black-neck-scarf-thing, no backpacks redesigned bottom of the jacket so that it's now more detailed and actually looks like it's got pants underneath, instead of being a solid chunk - all of these combine to make the Traitor Guard look noticeably older than the Loyalist Guard, even though they were released barely a few months apart.
I don't think it's that big of an issue. The traitor guard could be from a completely different regiment that is issued gear and outfits that are inspired by Cadians but are their own thing. It's a big universe. We're definitely used to seeing Cadians painted as different regiments because its largely the only plastic guard kit people have access to, but imperial guard regiments aren't restricted to only having the Cadian gear. The chestplate isn't the same as the old kit either. It's its own thing
I'd also say that it should be easy enough to give the new Cadians the arms and helmets from the traitor guard, but for some reason, GW gave the traitor guard strange necks and head sockets, so it takes a bit more to convert them.
For me, it's not a thing of it being strictly different, it's just that they seem less detailed. The shoulder pads are one solid chunk instead of being layered, the belt buckle is just a square, instead of several pieces with a skull detail, the bottom of the jacket is a solid piece instead of the more realistic way it looks on new Cadians, there's no ammo webbing, the chestplate is much simpler. To me, it just overall feels like it's less detailed, because it was based on a significantly older design, if you know what I mean.
That new Castellan is horrifically bland, no soul whatsoever. Massive downgrade from the predecessor, which to my mind was one of the most characterful minis from that era.
Scorpionee wrote: My personal pet pevee with this release - ironically, not actually directly related to this release - is the fact that after actual literal decades of waiting we finally got a plastic Traitor Guard kit, only for it to be rendered outdated within a few months by the fact the Guardsmen themselves were redesigned, making their Traitor counterparts look noticeably outdated, given they were based on the previous kit.
Different shoulderpad design, different helmet design, different chestplate design, different boot design, different belt design, no kneepads, no tactical webbing, no black-neck-scarf-thing, no backpacks redesigned bottom of the jacket so that it's now more detailed and actually looks like it's got pants underneath, instead of being a solid chunk - all of these combine to make the Traitor Guard look noticeably older than the Loyalist Guard, even though they were released barely a few months apart.
Oh I wasn't actually excepting that but...it's a good point.
The traitor guard doesn't just look from another regiment, he indeed looks outdated. Being based on an outdated loyalist regiment, that's makes sense
Cadians have a long and proud history of command, boasting some of the finest leaders in the Imperium. Like the indomitable Ursula Creed, their Castellans have decades of experience wielding the hammer of the Emperor, and work to ensure that the legacy of Ursakar E. Creed is alive and well.
Unlike regular Command Squads, Castellans don’t go into battle accompanied by a retinue. They move among their troops, issuing orders and directing fire wherever it’s needed, all while extending re-rolls to every CORE unit in range.
Astra Militarum officers can all boost the effectiveness of their Guardsmen with orders, but the Castellan can issue two per turn. Orders are a vital aspect of the war machine, encouraging units to hit harder, pin down foes, and surge across the battlefield in mass human waves.
This incredible new model is tremendously versatile, and comes with plenty of weapon options and four separate heads which you can use to make it truly your own. It can be used with any Astra Militarum army, Cadian or otherwise – even the Death Korps of Krieg and the Catachan Jungle Fighters need battlefield command.
Castellans are competent fighters in their own right, with a panoply of powerful equipment at their disposal. Many a foul traitor has tried to cut the head from the Imperial beast only to receive a power fist to the face for their trouble.
Join us next week for more Astra Militarum reveals as we continue the month-long celebration of humanity’s finest, which began at the Warhammer Day Preview Online. Subscribe to our newsletter to get the latest news delivered to your inbox, fresh from the Administratum.
Stop quoting massive posts with minimal replies please.
I feel like I have seen that leg/rock pose somewhere before...
Albertorius wrote: Wow, the new proportions showcase just how ridounculously big the guns are.
I was wondering that about the Bolter that Castellan is using. It looks closer to an Astartes bolter than the human-intended version seen in Necromunda and such.
So having just digested the last 6 or so pages the reveals are quite the mixed bag.
Biggest up was the new field artillery. Look excellent and add somthing new to the guard. A defensive unit that can hit more in the tank range but without the manuverability I can see some real use for. The only minor downer is the bigger Lascannon, I assume we are getting a new profile for that one as the current Lascannon is the same for tank or HWT.
I still can't see what role the Kasrkin furfil. If they are simply Vet models fair enough I can get behind that but they seem to be presented as if they are meant to be SpecOps. However the models don't really scream SpecOps to me, just slightly upgraded Cadians.
HWT, Shock Troops and Command Squad. This was always going to be a miss for me as I am halfway through building with the current kits and they are so starkly different I'm not going back now. No fault of the designers, I think the new models are wonderful simply bad timing on the redesign for me. HWT getting vox and Sgts is exciting however always thought them missing vox in particular was daft. Nice and easy to convert a few of the current modular kits up to include them.
Sentinel is just useless all round. The old kit didn't need a revamp so seems a waste of the designers time. New kit is plain ugly, more I see of it the worse it gets. That T-Rex arm style chainsword is hilarious.
Commisar whilst a static at least looks in line with the other models. The old one doesn't look like he has any business being in an AM force. Hopefully rules for them will be better this time around.
Castellan also looks like a bit of a waste of time. Having read the article on War Comm a few times I can't see how he is any different to a Company Commander. If anything he seems inferior to a CC. A CC has what appears to be the same load out and can take a Command Squad if they like which the article points out the Castellan cannot do.
So overall as a recent guard player this whole release wave has left me cold. Not enough new for me to be interested. However I am pleased the range has been updated for any starting the army from now on or who does have the time to update their infantry.
chaos0xomega wrote: I assumed by "Bombast" they were trying to invoke the term "Bombard", but different. I don't think the name is meant to imply on anything other than that, otherwise the dictionary definition of bombast is basically just "big talk with no meaning".
Its a generic term thats not trademarkable. "Bombast", on the other hand, might be trademarkable.
Scorpionee wrote: My personal pet pevee with this release - ironically, not actually directly related to this release - is the fact that after actual literal decades of waiting we finally got a plastic Traitor Guard kit, only for it to be rendered outdated within a few months by the fact the Guardsmen themselves were redesigned, making their Traitor counterparts look noticeably outdated, given they were based on the previous kit.
Different shoulderpad design, different helmet design, different chestplate design, different boot design, different belt design, no kneepads, no tactical webbing, no black-neck-scarf-thing, no backpacks redesigned bottom of the jacket so that it's now more detailed and actually looks like it's got pants underneath, instead of being a solid chunk - all of these combine to make the Traitor Guard look noticeably older than the Loyalist Guard, even though they were released barely a few months apart.
Theres different units in the Astra Militarum with different gear and equipment.
Scorpionee wrote: For me, it's not a thing of it being strictly different, it's just that they seem less detailed. The shoulder pads are one solid chunk instead of being layered, the belt buckle is just a square, instead of several pieces with a skull detail, the bottom of the jacket is a solid piece instead of the more realistic way it looks on new Cadians, there's no ammo webbing, the chestplate is much simpler. To me, it just overall feels like it's less detailed, because it was based on a significantly older design, if you know what I mean.
The traitor guard minis give me more "We are conscripts using substandard hand-me-downs of the simplest possible design pulled from reserve stocks" vibes. The armor and equipment the traitor minis use works for them in terms of what they are supposed to be if you assume they don't have ready access to a logistical and industrial base and well developed lines of communication and supply.
I'm getting kind of tired of tactical rocks, especially when the models pose is based on them so that they look super awkward if you put them on most anything else...
Model looks nice enough, but I am really hoping alternate torso options are available. It is one of the things I like about the current command squad kit - 3 officer torsos, so you can have your Company Commander on one of 5 different leg sets, and then pick between 3 torsos to match it. It really helped to make them look different and not be all exactly the same.
Honestly the most exciting thing from this is seeing Nork, as it is making me hopeful that Ogryn Bodyguards are here to stay. Mostly for the selfish reason that over the past years I've kitbased together 3 of them.
Kanluwen wrote: I didn't catch this before and I'm kicking myself for it...
The Kantrael and new pattern Las-weapons are both on display in this image. It's not super obvious but maybe there's two different weapon options?
It's funny how different people notice different things- the two lasrifle forms was one of the first things that popped out to me.
It may be lasrifles vs lascarbines or something, but I suspect they are still just lasguns with the identical barrel + powerpack segments. Only the rear and grip are different. I'm glad they kept some of the pistol grip weapons to prevent the older Cadian kits looking too different. As far as I am aware, Kantrael did not fall with Cadia, so both variants are probably still Kantrael patterns of lasgun. I don't see any reason that Cadians wouldn't still prefer Kantrael equipment if given the option.
Kanluwen wrote: It's not super obvious but maybe there's two different weapon options?
Why would be there any weapon options when new IG squad has FOUR (that we can see) different lasgun patterns (see the super obvious completely new to plastic M1 carbine inspired one below)? It's obvious these are just aesthetic differences like SM bolters, new Cadians just look rag-tag and not so uniform now to denote their veteran status and destruction of their old supply base:
Scorpionee wrote: a plastic Traitor Guard kit, only for it to be rendered outdated within a few months by the fact the Guardsmen themselves were redesigned
but imperial guard regiments aren't restricted to only having the Cadian gear. The chestplate isn't the same as the old kit either. It's its own thing
Nor do Cadians have chainmail or forearm/gauntlet armor. The Blooded Traitor Guard kit look nothing like the old or new Cadians - I have a feeling the OP thought that all Guard across the entire Imperium all use the same uniform, and so should the Blooded, which is not the case.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Pretty sweet model. Implies further equipment options including Power Fist.
A Castellan may replace its Plasma Pistol and Power Sword with a Bolter or a Chainsword... but never both!
Nah. Given what we know so far, it will be:
The Castellan is armed with a Laspistol and a Chainsword.
The Chainsword may be replaced with a Power Sword, Power Fist, or Bolter
They may also be equipped with a Bolt Pistol or a Plasma Pistol
Plus any other options they are hiding from us. Naturally, no Castellan would go anywhere without his trusty Laspistol (that never leaves it's holster)
I like the las carbines. It was a goal of mine (that I never accomplished) to make a veteran squad with them but the only source was bits suppliers back in the day (pre-3d printing) at a couple bucks each when they were actually available. Same with goggle headed helmets unfortunately.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Pretty sweet model. Implies further equipment options including Power Fist.
A Castellan may replace its Plasma Pistol and Power Sword with a Bolter or a Chainsword... but never both!
Nah. Given what we know so far, it will be:
The Castellan is armed with a Laspistol and a Chainsword.
The Chainsword may be replaced with a Power Sword, Power Fist, or Bolter
They may also be equipped with a Bolt Pistol or a Plasma Pistol
Plus any other options they are hiding from us. Naturally, no Castellan would go anywhere without his trusty Laspistol (that never leaves it's holster)
Would be cool of GW’s adherence to models and rules let you gunslinger 2 pistols, instead of upgrading the holstered laspistol.
Kanluwen wrote: It's not super obvious but maybe there's two different weapon options?
Why would be there any weapon options when new IG squad has FOUR (that we can see) different lasgun patterns (see the super obvious completely new to plastic M1 carbine inspired one below)? It's obvious these are just aesthetic differences like SM bolters, new Cadians just look rag-tag and not so uniform now to denote their veteran status and destruction of their old supply base:
I am pretty confident this is just a folding-stock variant of the standard Kantrael lasgun. Most lasgun patterns are pretty modular, a folding stock is a minor change. Whereas going from the pistol grip to a rifle grip changes more about the overall design. Still likely a variant Kantrael weapon though.
KidCthulhu wrote: Isn't there a folding stock lasgun like this on the tank accessory sprue (it's with baggage & tin cups)?
I'm not sure if that one is more like the Steel Legion folding-stock lasguns.
That is a Voss-pattern yes, like the Steel Legion lasguns. Many of the Steel Legion models don't have the wire stocks, but I think that is due to casting limitations rather than reflective of what the weapons should look like. The barrel is more exposed than the Kantrael-pattern lasgun, similar to the Catachan carbines.
Its nice to see that the heads are ball and socket and the arms attach to flat planes just like the current modular plastic cadian infantry kit. I would assume the new infantry kit will follow the same modularity and posability.
The only problem I see is it would take a little cutting and filling to do alternative leg poses.
To be honest though. After having built plenty of the current plastic cadians over the years. There has never been much room for variation of the torso to the legs outside of a few degrees of rotation.
Haighus wrote: I am pretty confident this is just a folding-stock variant of the standard Kantrael lasgun
Look at furniture, sights, and cowling style. This looks literally nothing like Kantrael, even the new Kantraels (?) with retconned separate handguard. If anything, it looks much closer to a Galaxy or Voss pattern than old Kantrael but it's not that either.
Those kits really seem like current traitor guard kits, with long necks, and two-part bodies. Interesting, as this suggests that both will have more compatibility than I first thought.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Pretty sweet model. Implies further equipment options including Power Fist.
A Castellan may replace its Plasma Pistol and Power Sword with a Bolter or a Chainsword... but never both!
Nah. Given what we know so far, it will be:
The Castellan is armed with a Laspistol and a Chainsword.
The Chainsword may be replaced with a Power Sword, Power Fist, or Bolter
They may also be equipped with a Bolt Pistol or a Plasma Pistol
Plus any other options they are hiding from us. Naturally, no Castellan would go anywhere without his trusty Laspistol (that never leaves it's holster)
It's possible to carry two pistols you know. Plasma is a wider pistol and more cumbersome and wouldn't necessarily need a holster, when it can just be carried and discarded once it ceases function.
Someone complained above look (collar sticking out of breastplate, breastplate with rounded bottom and extra plate beneath, split shoulderpads with arm plates, armored belt buckle with winged skull, straps on shoulders, knee protectors, etc, etc) is a big change from current Cadian models. And that is certainly true, but I realized I saw it somewhere before - as this is almost exactly the gear of Lt Mira from Space Marine. If both the game and new models are based on concept art of updated Guard, GW sat on it for over a decade before finally deciding to act on it:
Haighus wrote: I am pretty confident this is just a folding-stock variant of the standard Kantrael lasgun
Look at furniture, sights, and cowling style. This looks literally nothing like Kantrael, even the new Kantraels (?) with retconned separate handguard. If anything, it looks much closer to a Galaxy or Voss pattern than old Kantrael but it's not that either.
This shares much less in common with a voss or galaxy. A voss has a folding stock, but the stock fold under the weapon so as not to interfere with the sights, and has standard lasgun sights. It also has considerably more barrel protruding from the shroud, as well as having a more substantial supporting tube beneath. The galaxy is similar, minus the folding stock.
This gun looks like the new "kantrael" with the sights removed to accommodate the folding stock (which folds upwards). The barrel shroud is the same length, and is the same length as the existing kantrael lasguns. The only difference in the shrouds is the grip has a different shape on the folding model.
Someone complained above look (collar sticking out of breastplate, breastplate with rounded bottom and extra plate beneath, split shoulderpads with arm plates, armored belt buckle with winged skull, straps on shoulders, knee protectors, etc, etc) is a big change from current Cadian models. And that is certainly true, but I realized I saw it somewhere before - as this is almost exactly the gear of Lt Mira from Space Marine. If both the game and new models are based on concept art of updated Guard, GW sat on it for over a decade before finally deciding to act on it:
Spoiler:
I suspect both are refencing the old 2nd edition metal Cadians, which have a lot more similarities with the new kits compared to the previous plastics.
I suspect both are refencing the old 2nd edition metal Cadians, which have a lot more similarities with the new kits compared to the previous plastics.
I can't see any similarities other than the rolled-up sleeves on one of the troopers.
...
No 
