Spoletta wrote: "Why my dreadnaught requires only 4.155 lascannon hits to go down while a ghost ark requires 10,9?!?!?" Do you see? It's easy to make a counter argument.
Right tools for the right job, comparing the autocannon shots needed to kill it's perfect target (ghost ark) against the shots required to kill a non optimal target (dreadnaught) do not make for a fair comparison, the same i did with lascannons.
Technically, it's 6.17 to kill a Dread and 15.42 to kill a GA but yes, it's a valid point. My issue, though, is that it's a total characteristic change of the vehicle - it's gone from immune to low strength and very weak to high damage to the total reverse - it now hates small arms and loves being shot by high damage. It's a change for no reason other than to arbitrarily change the feeling of the vehicle. Plus, there's a lot more weapons that are S6-8 with damage of 3 or less than there are lascannon equivalents - the lascannons can shoot other units, but the Ghost Ark can't pop back to life if it gets shot to death.
...isn't that a strength? My heavy weapons are mostly useless so I need to point my anti-elite guns at your vehicles?
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
>scarab occult have 4++
>taurox and taurox prime m14" w10 r6 3+
>chimera m12" w10 r7 3+
>veterans have same stats as normal infantry except bs 3+; can have 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon a heavy flamer; 6ppm without equip
>valkyrie m20"(min)-45"(max); w14 s7 t7 3+
>can go in stationary flight mode and reduce its movement to up to 20", but loses the other rules of fliers (-1 to be hit, can only be charged by flying stuff)
>grav-chute deployment still in: if performed when moving more than 20" 1/6 models die
>hellstroke missiles: heavy1 s8 ap-2 d6 >ogryns w3 s5 t5; ws3+; +1 attack on charge; weapon is 12" ass3 s5 ap- d1
>vanquisher is heavy 1 72" s8 ap-3 d6, roll 2 dice for damage and discard the lower
>basilisk 240" heavyD6 s9 ap-3 d3, roll 2 dice for determining the number of shots and discard the lower; can shoot on units it can't see
>confirmed characters: yarrick, pask, creed, kell, harker, straken, nork
>mawloc can deploy up to 1" away from enemies but 6" away from other mawlocs
>enemies within 2" get damage according to a d6 >1: nothing; 2-3: 1 mortal; 4-5: d3 mortals; 6: 3 mortals
>can't charge in the same turn; can reenter reserves like before
Awesome news!
Can you ask for info on chapter tactics, Legion traits, tau septs and so on. Nothing has been leaked and I would think those would be important. It makes me ask if they are even in the indexes.
Done Some there suspect it will be in codexes not index books.
DarknessEternal wrote: So every faction leaked so far has massive ways to ignore Morale.
Didn't the article say something about having to worry about Morale? "It will apply to almost every unit"
Well, we know that's a lie now. Wonder what else was a lie.
Morale is back to being exclusively for Eldar.
Every single army has to worry about morale... even Space marines now don't "auto save". You have to figure out if you want to use that as a valid strategy, aka, disrupt the morale protectors. Ya know, strategy!
Posting Imotek so EyjioMade can explain why he's terrible for not being able to arm-wrestle a Warlord titan in single combat
>imotek
>ws2+ w6 s5 t5 2+ 4++
>living metal (but regains d3 wounds)
>flayed units of the same dynasty within 12 reroll 1's
>at the start of the unit choose an infantry of the same dynasty and it gets +1 to advance, charge and hit rolls
>once per game choose an enemy unit within 48": on a 2+ it suffers a number of mortals wounds equal to the roll, each unit within 6 of it also get d3 mortal wounds on a 6
>228 pts
>staff 18" s6 ap-3 d2
>in melee it's S-user ap-3 d2
>the gauntlet is a flamerthrower with s4 and ap-
Likely a way to say they don,t normally get a save, but with cover modifers they can gain a save by it being improved to a 6+ or better.
Deathguard Poxwalkers have the same value too
I guess I need to invest in some d7s then.
Seriously though, I like the change. Putting it in their statline like this negeates the need for rules specifically to cover units with no save in cover. It's solid game design and good streamlining.
Of course it reminds me of the first time I shot at an Avatar with a melta and was told I needed a 7 to wound it...but tat,s neither here nor there.
Source tells me GW is done with official leaks due to these massive leaks already out there. Reliable source says sentiment is "ahhh f@#$ it".......jk jk
casvalremdeikun wrote: From 4chan:
>ghost arc: w14 s6 t6 4+
>living metal, quantum shielding
>you can still make reanimation protocols for the embarked unit
>also at the end of the movement phase you can choose an unit within 3 for additional reanimation protocol rolls (doesn't stack with the resurrection globe)
>you can choose one unit to hold in reverses "on the tomb world"; it can come out within 3 of the monolith but more than 1 from the enemy at the start of the movement phase
>boyz cost the same with slugga, choppa and bomms; hit on 3+, shoot on 5+; if 20 or more gain an additional attack
>nobz 17ppm, 3 models minimum
>old one eye: 10w r7
>ws3+, gives +1 to hit on carnifices within 6
>his charge does d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ instead of 1
>each attack that hits generate another attack to resolve with the same weapon against the same target
>140pts
>kantor same characteristics of other chapter masters (w6 ws2+ s4 t4 4++)
>crimson fists within 6 get another attack and reroll to hit
>dorn's arrow: 24" ass4 s4 ap-1 d1
>sternguards same stats as marines but with ld8(-9 sergeant)
>specialist requiem: rapid fire1 s4 ap-2 d1
>up to 2 can have heavy flamers, heavy weapons, special weapons or combi-weapons
>everyone can have combi-weapons
>16ppm without weapons (which go from 11ppm to 15 ppm respectively for combiflamer and combiplasma)
>vanguards are almost the same but can get any weapon combination between melee and pistols
>yes twin pistols too
Arks are still transports? That's annoying.
I hated that necrons still used conventional transports, instead of teleport shenanigans. If you can manipulate time and space, why would you ride around on a vehicle that could be destroyed like a peasant?
Especially if said transport clearly has no space to carry models due to the wreckages, and lore wise is basically a corpse wagon.
Not one of the better designed vehicles, and necron vehicles aren't well designed to begin with. Except for the monolith. That one is special.
Lore wise warriors were the peasent classes, so it's appropiate. Plus the Ghost Ark carries spare parts for you so they don,t have to teleport all the way back to your main tomb for repairs.
DarknessEternal wrote: So every faction leaked so far has massive ways to ignore Morale.
Didn't the article say something about having to worry about Morale? "It will apply to almost every unit"
Well, we know that's a lie now. Wonder what else was a lie.
Morale is back to being exclusively for Eldar.
By and large, the ways to ignore Morale tests are tied to units specifically(Tau bonding knife ritual makes it so that any roll of a 6 means that the Morale test is auto-passed...which is kinda funky wording but whatever) or are in small auras.
Daedalus81 wrote: ...isn't that a strength? My heavy weapons are mostly useless so I need to point my anti-elite guns at your vehicles?
It's not really a strength or a weakness. The anti-elite guns which would normally fire at 2+ saves will target Necron vehicles instead. Does that help overly? Well, not really, there's very few 2+ saves in a Necron list and the normal troops are all T4 with 4+ or 3+s - better to kill with mass fire than anti-elite guns anyway.
Twoshoes23 wrote: Source tells me GW is done with official leaks due to these massive leaks already out there. Reliable source says sentiment is "ahhh f@#$ it".......jk jk
That'd be silly, because we're pretty much a minority. Though I suppose facebook posts do increase the spread.
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
>scarab occult have 4++
>taurox and taurox prime m14" w10 r6 3+
>chimera m12" w10 r7 3+
>veterans have same stats as normal infantry except bs 3+; can have 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon a heavy flamer; 6ppm without equip
>valkyrie m20"(min)-45"(max); w14 s7 t7 3+
>can go in stationary flight mode and reduce its movement to up to 20", but loses the other rules of fliers (-1 to be hit, can only be charged by flying stuff)
>grav-chute deployment still in: if performed when moving more than 20" 1/6 models die
>hellstroke missiles: heavy1 s8 ap-2 d6 >ogryns w3 s5 t5; ws3+; +1 attack on charge; weapon is 12" ass3 s5 ap- d1
>vanquisher is heavy 1 72" s8 ap-3 d6, roll 2 dice for damage and discard the lower
>basilisk 240" heavyD6 s9 ap-3 d3, roll 2 dice for determining the number of shots and discard the lower; can shoot on units it can't see
>confirmed characters: yarrick, pask, creed, kell, harker, straken, nork
>mawloc can deploy up to 1" away from enemies but 6" away from other mawlocs
>enemies within 2" get damage according to a d6 >1: nothing; 2-3: 1 mortal; 4-5: d3 mortals; 6: 3 mortals
>can't charge in the same turn; can reenter reserves like before
You know everyone wants to know what the worlds largest nuke does!!!!
Show us the deathstrike!!!
It's a vehicle wihose sole purpose is a single shot expensive delayed fire nuke!!!! This better be one of the most powerful weapons in game like 2d6 hits d3 mortal wounds and str10 ap-4
Also poor kell not only did he take a bullet in the head for creed that guy still makes him continu fighting.
Daedalus81 wrote: ...isn't that a strength? My heavy weapons are mostly useless so I need to point my anti-elite guns at your vehicles?
It's not really a strength or a weakness. The anti-elite guns which would normally fire at 2+ saves will target Necron vehicles instead. Does that help overly? Well, not really, there's very few 2+ saves in a Necron list and the normal troops are all T4 with 4+ or 3+s - better to kill with mass fire than anti-elite guns anyway.
Look at it from another point of view. The enemy heavy weapons don't have good targets, and those things tend to cost a lot.
Twoshoes23 wrote: Source tells me GW is done with official leaks due to these massive leaks already out there. Reliable source says sentiment is "ahhh f@#$ it".......jk jk
That'd be silly, because we're pretty much a minority. Though I suppose facebook posts do increase the spread.
don't be silly gw aleady knew once store copies hit the stores Saturday everyone was going to read them.
zerosignal wrote: Storm Bolters are four shots at half-range now... so a Rhino with two is putting out a fair old hail of anti-infantry fire.
that's true, and it looks like you can take two of them. so 8 shots at close range isn't bad. still, with the changes to heavy weapons i was planning to use them out of rhinos
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
Well, feth.
They really not gonna let the primaris to use normal marine transports, forcing everyone who wants to field primaris to buy completely new motor pool... I'm not pleased about this...
xttz wrote: Posting Imotek so EyjioMade can explain why he's terrible for not being able to arm-wrestle a Warlord titan in single combat
>imotek
>ws2+ w6 s5 t5 2+ 4++
>living metal (but regains d3 wounds)
>flayed units of the same dynasty within 12 reroll 1's
>at the start of the unit choose an infantry of the same dynasty and it gets +1 to advance, charge and hit rolls
>once per game choose an enemy unit within 48": on a 2+ it suffers a number of mortals wounds equal to the roll, each unit within 6 of it also get d3 mortal wounds on a 6
>228 pts
>staff 18" s6 ap-3 d2
>in melee it's S-user ap-3 d2
>the gauntlet is a flamerthrower with s4 and ap-
Hilarious.
Actually, he looks pretty good compared to many of the characters we've seen. Bit squishy unless wrapped in a blob, but wants to be in a blob anyway to hand out buffs. Seems quite reasonable. The lightning thing doing mortal wounds seems pretty powerful too, potential to wipe an MSU marine unit, though it's a shame it's once per game when psykers get something similar every turn. All in all, looks quite good and I'll probably try him. For reference, I've thought quite a lot of the necron infantry has seemed good - it's the vehicles and Destroyers which are looking mediocre.
benlac wrote: it seems like plasma guns are going to be decent all around weapons in this ed
If you can overcharge safely by getting rerolls or a bonus to your shooting, yes. Otherwise... not really. A squad of five hellblasters in rapid fire range will only shave off 3 wounds from a rhino without overcharging, even with over charge only 6-7. Previously 5 plasma guns could rather consistently kill a normal rhino in rapid fire range. Plasma also isn't quite as good against terminators, thanks to them being multi wound models and gets hot being fat more deadly (the strength bonus during overcharge means they are more effective then though).
It can, with overcharge, be a more realistic threat to heavy vehicles, but again only with overcharge.
In short, the standard shot is good at killing MEQ or weaker. For everything else, overcharge or find a better target.
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
>scarab occult have 4++
>taurox and taurox prime m14" w10 r6 3+
>chimera m12" w10 r7 3+
>veterans have same stats as normal infantry except bs 3+; can have 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon a heavy flamer; 6ppm without equip
>valkyrie m20"(min)-45"(max); w14 s7 t7 3+
>can go in stationary flight mode and reduce its movement to up to 20", but loses the other rules of fliers (-1 to be hit, can only be charged by flying stuff)
>grav-chute deployment still in: if performed when moving more than 20" 1/6 models die
>hellstroke missiles: heavy1 s8 ap-2 d6 >ogryns w3 s5 t5; ws3+; +1 attack on charge; weapon is 12" ass3 s5 ap- d1
>vanquisher is heavy 1 72" s8 ap-3 d6, roll 2 dice for damage and discard the lower
>basilisk 240" heavyD6 s9 ap-3 d3, roll 2 dice for determining the number of shots and discard the lower; can shoot on units it can't see
>confirmed characters: yarrick, pask, creed, kell, harker, straken, nork
>mawloc can deploy up to 1" away from enemies but 6" away from other mawlocs
>enemies within 2" get damage according to a d6 >1: nothing; 2-3: 1 mortal; 4-5: d3 mortals; 6: 3 mortals
>can't charge in the same turn; can reenter reserves like before
Awesome news!
Can you ask for info on chapter tactics, Legion traits, tau septs and so on. Nothing has been leaked and I would think those would be important. It makes me ask if they are even in the indexes.
Done Some there suspect it will be in codexes not index books.
Plz link thread please. I can't find it on tg. Thanks
benlac wrote: it seems like plasma guns are going to be decent all around weapons in this ed
If you can overcharge safely by getting rerolls or a bonus to your shooting, yes. Otherwise... not really. A squad of five hellblasters in rapid fire range will only shave off 3 wounds from a rhino without overcharging, even with over charge only 6-7. Previously 5 plasma guns could rather consistently kill a normal rhino in rapid fire range. Plasma also isn't quite as good against terminators, thanks to them being multi wound models and gets hot being fat more deadly (the strength bonus during overcharge means they are more effective then though).
It can, with overcharge, be a more realistic threat to heavy vehicles, but again only with overcharge.
In short, the standard shot is good at killing MEQ or weaker. For everything else, overcharge or find a better target.
Does a bonus to shooting help - "it just says on a roll of a 1" bad things happen. re-roll will sort this but a bonus would not?
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
>scarab occult have 4++
>taurox and taurox prime m14" w10 r6 3+
>chimera m12" w10 r7 3+
>veterans have same stats as normal infantry except bs 3+; can have 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon a heavy flamer; 6ppm without equip
>valkyrie m20"(min)-45"(max); w14 s7 t7 3+
>can go in stationary flight mode and reduce its movement to up to 20", but loses the other rules of fliers (-1 to be hit, can only be charged by flying stuff)
>grav-chute deployment still in: if performed when moving more than 20" 1/6 models die
>hellstroke missiles: heavy1 s8 ap-2 d6 >ogryns w3 s5 t5; ws3+; +1 attack on charge; weapon is 12" ass3 s5 ap- d1
>vanquisher is heavy 1 72" s8 ap-3 d6, roll 2 dice for damage and discard the lower
>basilisk 240" heavyD6 s9 ap-3 d3, roll 2 dice for determining the number of shots and discard the lower; can shoot on units it can't see
>confirmed characters: yarrick, pask, creed, kell, harker, straken, nork
>mawloc can deploy up to 1" away from enemies but 6" away from other mawlocs
>enemies within 2" get damage according to a d6 >1: nothing; 2-3: 1 mortal; 4-5: d3 mortals; 6: 3 mortals
>can't charge in the same turn; can reenter reserves like before
Awesome news!
Can you ask for info on chapter tactics, Legion traits, tau septs and so on. Nothing has been leaked and I would think those would be important. It makes me ask if they are even in the indexes.
Done Some there suspect it will be in codexes not index books.
Plz link thread please. I can't find it on tg. Thanks
Humm, so a lascannon twin plasma razorback is 110 points. Not bad! or twin lascannon for 115. Man, that is a tough call haha. I like how it feels like all options have some merit compared to what they did before. I also like how a lot of FW variants can be built straight from the book(like the twin-multimelta) without having to reference a separate book.
I am guessing we are missing the sheet that says what category each weapon falls under. I dont see a special weapons list and related items so we will have to see.
Holy crap, thunder hammers actually have a solid use now, fixed 3 damage! Hope it is more limited in who can take it compared to a power fist otherwise you would never take a power fist since they are the same points on non-characters. However it is nice to see a huge price drop in lightning claws. 13 for a pair compared to 30 before.
DarknessEternal wrote: So every faction leaked so far has massive ways to ignore Morale.
Didn't the article say something about having to worry about Morale? "It will apply to almost every unit"
Well, we know that's a lie now. Wonder what else was a lie.
Morale is back to being exclusively for Eldar.
Easy there, you're confusing things a bit. "Ignoring morale" would mean never needing to test or always automatically assin all tests. Now how many units actually can do that? Not many.
Orks for example have high morale as long as they have lots of friends, but can be devestated late game when their numbers are thinned. Nids can break just by losing synapse (as they should). Marines get a reroll that can potentially make things worse for them.
Now I have seen some "autopass on a roll of X" but a 1 in 6 chance of negating morale is a bonus, not something to rely on in your list.
Balor wrote: Anyone seen anything on the three BT characters?
I think that in OP there is a point cost for all SM characters.
Ya I have seen the points now I'm creeping around that chapter tactics info is not going to pop I'm looking to forward to finding out if GW added some character into Templars.
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
Well, feth.
They really not gonna let the primaris to use normal marine transports, forcing everyone who wants to field primaris to buy completely new motor pool... I'm not pleased about this...
I friggin called it! I mentioned that Primaris might not get to ride in Rhinos like two weeks ago and got told I was basically crazy for suggesting it.
Gloating aside, it might be the rise of footslogging armies for people who want to run only Primaris for a while. Assuming their new tank is even a transport at all.
zerosignal wrote: I don't recall the stormraven being able to take plasma cannons?
It could, but no one ever did.
The front can be either twin heavy bolter, twin multi-melta or missiles. The turret is twin Lascannon, twin assault cannon or twin plasma cannon. As was stated the twin plasma cannon has traditional been the worse choice. It also went from being a 200-250 point flyer to the 389 point flyer. I am not quite sure it deserved to have it's cost doubled.
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
Well, feth.
They really not gonna let the primaris to use normal marine transports, forcing everyone who wants to field primaris to buy completely new motor pool... I'm not pleased about this...
I friggin called it! I mentioned that Primaris might not get to ride in Rhinos like two weeks ago and got told I was basically crazy for suggesting it.
Gloating aside, it might be the rise of footslogging armies for people who want to run only Primaris for a while. Assuming their new tank is even a transport at all.
Luckily their weapons currently appear to be decent range, and their Inceptors can deep strike already.
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
Well, feth.
They really not gonna let the primaris to use normal marine transports, forcing everyone who wants to field primaris to buy completely new motor pool... I'm not pleased about this...
I don't know of a good solution. The other way people would be complaining that Primaris shouldn't fit in them.
Balor wrote: Anyone seen anything on the three BT characters?
Nithing but the points so far. Helbretch and Pedro are tied in points costs and are the priciest characters shy of the big Ultramarine ones like Calgar. No signs of leaks or rules there though.
Interestingly enough, against Quantum Shield damage D3 and D6 have exactly the same expected value at 1.56 wounds. Damage 2 is marginally better at expected value of 1.67 wounds. That being said, this is perfect example of how expected value does not tell the whole truth because D3 and 2 have zero change of killing a Barge that has 4 wounds left but they are more reliable at killing a Barge that has one or two wounds left.
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
Well, feth.
They really not gonna let the primaris to use normal marine transports, forcing everyone who wants to field primaris to buy completely new motor pool... I'm not pleased about this...
I friggin called it! I mentioned that Primaris might not get to ride in Rhinos like two weeks ago and got told I was basically crazy for suggesting it.
Gloating aside, it might be the rise of footslogging armies for people who want to run only Primaris for a while. Assuming their new tank is even a transport at all.
Luckily their weapons currently appear to be decent range, and their Inceptors can deep strike already.
Oh agreed that their wargear is offsetting the slogging a fair bit. That and being 2 wound guys.
That said, until the update rules for them drops with their kits they'll be left a bit lopsided in terms of options being forced into MSUs without options.
Some more stuff i can make out of the necron spoilers.
The flayers weapon hits at S:User AP- D1. Reroll to wound.
Scarabs weapon hits at S:User AP- D1. Always wounds on 5+ or better.
Living metal is indeed 1 wounds recovered per turn (1d3 with amulet)
Death gaze of C'than is Assault D6 wounds on 2+ AP-4 d3 damage (nasty!). Against vehicles it wounds on 6+.
Tachion arrow is range 120" S10 AP-5 D6 damage.
Doomsday weapon has 2 profiles:
- Low power: range 24" heavy d3 S8 AP-2 Damage D3
- High power: range 72"heavy d3 S10 AP-5 Damage D6. Can be fired only if you didn't move. When firing at a unit with 10 or more models, it becomes heavy d6,
Sinaptic disgregator(?) is a classic sniper with S4 no AP and mortal wound on 6 to wound.
There were some things taken from /tg/ which was doing a job of trying to translate the Italian version of the Ork codex list. I haven't checked to see if they made it into the OP yet.
Youn wrote: They really should have made the drop pods state they could fit 10 wounds worth of infantry. That alone would have fixed the issue.
You could use a drop pod for 5 Primaris or 10 Regular space marines. 1 Dreadnought would take up a whole drop pod.
They could have, but chose not to. I mean they cold have done a LOT of things, but chose not to. Let's not get derailed into what could have been done but focus on what is for now. We can always take up petitioning GW to change things after we have some games in and see if there really is a problem with the set up or not.
>exalted on disc gain fly, cavalry and daemon and lose infantry
>m12" s4 t4 ws2+, w5 4a
>staff is s+2 ap-1 d3
>can cast 2 powers and dispel 1
>5++ he and his sons within 6 reroll 1 on the save
>same stats for arhyman, but the staff does directly 3 damage, his inv is 4++
>can cast 3 spells and dispel 3, has a +1 for the attempts
>the scarab have 2w t4 s4, hit on 3, all is dust, don't have penalty for moving and shooting; sorcerer knows both smite and another power
>heavy warpflamer 8" s5 ap-2 d1
>Combirequiem inferno rapid fire 2 range 24 s4 -1 d1.
>Soulreaper range 24 heavy 4 s5 -3 d1
>missile system 24 heavy 2 s8 -2 d3
>exalted on disc gain fly, cavalry and daemon and lose infantry
>m12" s4 t4 ws2+, w5 4a
>staff is s+2 ap-1 d3
>can cast 2 powers and dispel 1
>5++ he and his sons within 6 reroll 1 on the save
>same stats for arhyman, but the staff does directly 3 damage, his inv is 4++
>can cast 3 spells and dispel 3, has a +1 for the attempts
>the scarab have 2w t4 s4, hit on 3, all is dust, don't have penalty for moving and shooting; sorcerer knows both smite and another power
>heavy warpflamer 8" s5 ap-2 d1
>Combirequiem inferno rapid fire 2 range 24 s4 -1 d1.
>Soulreaper range 24 heavy 4 s5 -3 d1
>missile system 24 heavy 2 s8 -2 d3
Bit of a bummer on the scarab bolters. The exalted ability is the best news i'll read all day. I'm notorious for rolling 1s.
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
Well, feth.
They really not gonna let the primaris to use normal marine transports, forcing everyone who wants to field primaris to buy completely new motor pool... I'm not pleased about this...
I don't know of a good solution. The other way people would be complaining that Primaris shouldn't fit in them.
I could see Primaris only versions of the transports being a thing (bigger armoured bodies will need the interior redesigned to fit them if its not seem as too much tampering with a holy STC)
otherwise we'll need to wait for Caul to build some new battle taxis
I don't think I've seen anything but I may not be as observant as some. Do we have any Ork info yet? I'm interested in there vehicular options! I'm concerned they will once again leave out looted wagons! So I think we may need to show support for the fan favourite that is scratch building ork vehicles and tell gw on social media to support it. It may not have a kit but it's not like it doesn't sell kits 10's of 1000's of kit have been bought and suitably butchered to kit bash a looted wagon.
If I'm late to the party please let me know all is well that the pros are taken care of, if not I just posted this (Hi Warhammer social media dudes! I have a Question if I may be so bold.
You have stated that all models will get rules but there is one model that you don't make, but do make, that 1000's of your fans have, and has ment the sale of 1000's of other GW kits and it would be a crying shame to leave it by the way side. I'm talking about the iconic Looted Wagon! Please let us know that GW have not let this juggernaut of Ork kulture and a nirvana for modelling masterpieces get Squated?!
Thanks and great work with this page it's been fantastic watching it grow over the last year.)on the warhammer 40k Facebook page go give it a like and comment to show support if you wanna save the looted wagon
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: I don't think I've seen anything but I may not be as observant as some. Do we have any Ork info yet? I'm interested in there vehicular options! I'm concerned they will once again leave out looted wagons! So I think we may need to show support for the fan favourite that is scratch building ork vehicles and tell gw on social media to support it. It may not have a kit but it's not like it doesn't sell kits 10's of 1000's of kit have been bought and suitably butchered to kit bash a looted wagon.
I believe the only Ork stuff we've seen so far is the cost of Ork Slugga Boyz and one of their abilities, as well as some of the Battlewagon stats+options:
boyz cost the same with slugga, choppa and bomms; hit on 3+, shoot on 5+; if 20 or more gain an additional attack
nobz 17ppm, 3 models minimum
Battlewagon rules:
Battlewagon
Rokkit Launcha is 24", Assault 1, S8, AP-2, DamD3
Big Shoota is 36", Assault 3, S5, AP0, Dam1
Cannonsomethingsomething pick a profile
Frag is 36", Heavy D6, S4, AP0, Dam1
Krak/Massive 36", Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, DamD6
Tank Kannon 24", Heavy D6, S7, AP-2, Dam2
Bombard(?) is 48", Heavy D6, S5, AP0, Dam1, can fire indirectly
Zzapgun is 36", Heavy 1, S2D6, AP-3, Dam3, if you get a 11+ on S it deals 3 mortal wounds instead
Crushing Ball S+1, AP-1, Dam1, cannot quite read all it says in the notes, but something about limiting the number of attacks to 3
Megagrabber (?) is SUser, AP-3, DamD3, can only attack once with this
Death-Rolla is SUser, AP-2, Dam1, this weapon hits on 2+
Explodes at 0 Wounds on a 6, dealing 6 mortal wounds within 6"
Closed up: Has T8 but loses open-topped
Moving Fortress: Ignores the penalty for moving and shooting Heavy weapons
Open-topped: Units embarked can shoot from it, but cannot do so while the unit is within melee range of an enemy unit.
Can carry 20 Ork infantry models, models in mega-armour take two spots. If you have taken the tank gun it can only transport 12 models.
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: I don't think I've seen anything but I may not be as observant as some. Do we have any Ork info yet? I'm interested in there vehicular options! I'm concerned they will once again leave out looted wagons! So I think we may need to show support for the fan favourite that is scratch building ork vehicles and tell gw on social media to support it. It may not have a kit but it's not like it doesn't sell kits 10's of 1000's of kit have been bought and suitably butchered to kit bash a looted wagon.
If I'm late to the party please let me know all is well that the pros are taken care of, if not I just posted this (Hi Warhammer social media dudes! I have a Question if I may be so bold.
You have stated that all models will get rules but there is one model that you don't make, but do make, that 1000's of your fans have, and has ment the sale of 1000's of other GW kits and it would be a crying shame to leave it by the way side. I'm talking about the iconic Looted Wagon! Please let us know that GW have not let this juggernaut of Ork kulture and a nirvana for modelling masterpieces get Squated?!
Thanks and great work with this page it's been fantastic watching it grow over the last year.)on the warhammer 40k Facebook page go give it a like and comment to show support if you wanna save the looted wagon
Just some Italian leaks that got translated on /tg/ and reposted a few pages back. I'm on a tablet at the moment so I can't really go back and repost them for you.
More from Tyranid Hive:
Stranglethorn Cannon does d6 shots. for every 10 models in a unit, the wielder gets +1 to hit. range 36"; S 7; AP -1; D 2
Heavy Venom Cannon: range 36"; D3 shots *if i remember right* S 9; AP -2; D d3
Adrenal glands add 1 to advance and charge range. Toxin sacs: rolls of 6 make 2d
Rupture Cannon: S 10; AP -1; D d3; heavy 2. If it hits with both shots, they get AP -4; D d6. And if Tyrannofex stands still, all his weapons can fire twice
Tyrannofex has T 8; 14 or 16 W
Tyrannocyte can transport 20 infantry models or 1 monstrous Creature with max 14 wounds
Zoanthropes: Warp Blast has become a special rule that makes smite spell do d3 additional mortal wounds *looks like all psykers have smite* Neurothrope makes zoanthropes regain d3 wounds when they kill with smite. Zoanthropes also cost 40 points now. if the unit is 4+ models, they can cast 2 psychic powers
Maleceptor has T8; 14 wounds; armor save 3+. You can chose to use its own psychic power and it targets a number of enemy units depending on how many wounds it still has. Roll 1 dice for the enemy units: on a 1 nothing happens. on a roll of 2+ the enemy unit suffers a mortal wound
Trygon: T 6; 14 W; movement 8
Toxicrene: T 8; 14 W; 3+ armor save. One ability it has makes you roll a d6 for every enemy model within 1 inch. on a roll of 6, the enemy suffers a mortal wound
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: I don't think I've seen anything but I may not be as observant as some. Do we have any Ork info yet? I'm interested in there vehicular options! I'm concerned they will once again leave out looted wagons! So I think we may need to show support for the fan favourite that is scratch building ork vehicles and tell gw on social media to support it. It may not have a kit but it's not like it doesn't sell kits 10's of 1000's of kit have been bought and suitably butchered to kit bash a looted wagon.
If I'm late to the party please let me know all is well that the pros are taken care of, if not I just posted this (Hi Warhammer social media dudes! I have a Question if I may be so bold.
You have stated that all models will get rules but there is one model that you don't make, but do make, that 1000's of your fans have, and has ment the sale of 1000's of other GW kits and it would be a crying shame to leave it by the way side. I'm talking about the iconic Looted Wagon! Please let us know that GW have not let this juggernaut of Ork kulture and a nirvana for modelling masterpieces get Squated?!
Thanks and great work with this page it's been fantastic watching it grow over the last year.)on the warhammer 40k Facebook page go give it a like and comment to show support if you wanna save the looted wagon
Just some Italian leaks that got translated on /tg/ and reposted a few pages back. I'm on a tablet at the moment so I can't really go back and repost them for you.
Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: I don't think I've seen anything but I may not be as observant as some. Do we have any Ork info yet? I'm interested in there vehicular options! I'm concerned they will once again leave out looted wagons! So I think we may need to show support for the fan favourite that is scratch building ork vehicles and tell gw on social media to support it. It may not have a kit but it's not like it doesn't sell kits 10's of 1000's of kit have been bought and suitably butchered to kit bash a looted wagon.
I believe the only Ork stuff we've seen so far is the cost of Ork Slugga Boyz and one of their abilities, as well as some of the Battlewagon stats+options:
boyz cost the same with slugga, choppa and bomms; hit on 3+, shoot on 5+; if 20 or more gain an additional attack
nobz 17ppm, 3 models minimum
Battlewagon rules:
Battlewagon
Rokkit Launcha is 24", Assault 1, S8, AP-2, DamD3
Big Shoota is 36", Assault 3, S5, AP0, Dam1
Cannonsomethingsomething pick a profile
Frag is 36", Heavy D6, S4, AP0, Dam1
Krak/Massive 36", Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, DamD6
Tank Kannon 24", Heavy D6, S7, AP-2, Dam2
Bombard(?) is 48", Heavy D6, S5, AP0, Dam1, can fire indirectly
Zzapgun is 36", Heavy 1, S2D6, AP-3, Dam3, if you get a 11+ on S it deals 3 mortal wounds instead
Crushing Ball S+1, AP-1, Dam1, cannot quite read all it says in the notes, but something about limiting the number of attacks to 3
Megagrabber (?) is SUser, AP-3, DamD3, can only attack once with this
Death-Rolla is SUser, AP-2, Dam1, this weapon hits on 2+
Explodes at 0 Wounds on a 6, dealing 6 mortal wounds within 6"
Closed up: Has T8 but loses open-topped
Moving Fortress: Ignores the penalty for moving and shooting Heavy weapons
Open-topped: Units embarked can shoot from it, but cannot do so while the unit is within melee range of an enemy unit.
Can carry 20 Ork infantry models, models in mega-armour take two spots. If you have taken the tank gun it can only transport 12 models.
Thank you both for answering as best you could plus the pics above, thumbs up!
Thing I don't get about building your army is the points themselves.
Lets say a marine is 13 points a model. Do you need to buy his bolter etc or do they come with all that already and all you are buying is heavy weapons for most squads?
Stranglethorn Cannon does d6 shots. for every 10 models in a unit, the wielder gets +1 to hit. range 36"; S 7; AP -1; D 2
Heavy Venom Cannon: range 36"; D3 shots *if i remember right* S 9; AP -2; D d3
Adrenal glands add 1 to advance and charge range. Toxin sacs: rolls of 6 make 2d
Rupture Cannon: S 10; AP -1; D d3; heavy 2. If it hits with both shots, they get AP -4; D d6. And if Tyrannofex stands still, all his weapons can fire twice
Tyrannofex has T 8; 14 or 16 W
Tyrannocyte can transport 20 infantry models or 1 monstrous Creature with max 14 wounds
Zoanthropes: Warp Blast has become a special rule that makes smite spell do d3 additional mortal wounds *looks like all psykers have smite* Neurothrope makes zoanthropes regain d3 wounds when they kill with smite. Zoanthropes also cost 40 points now. if the unit is 4+ models, they can cast 2 psychic powers
Maleceptor has T8; 14 wounds; armor save 3+. You can chose to use its own psychic power and it targets a number of enemy units depending on how many wounds it still has. Roll 1 dice for the enemy units: on a 1 nothing happens. on a roll of 2+ the enemy unit suffers a mortal wound
Trygon: T 6; 14 W; movement 8
Toxicrene: T 8; 14 W; 3+ armor save. One ability it has makes you roll a d6 for every enemy model within 1 inch. on a roll of 6, the enemy suffers a mortal wound
str00dles1 wrote: Thing I don't get about building your army is the points themselves.
Lets say a marine is 13 points a model. Do you need to buy his bolter etc or do they come with all that already and all you are buying is heavy weapons for most squads?
You have to buy all wargear used, but certain things like bolters cost 0 points.
Has the description for rapid fire been leaked or announced? I looked through a lot of content on the OP but couldn't find it. Basically, can you now assault after shooting rapid fire?
Rezyn wrote: Has the description for rapid fire been leaked or announced? I looked through a lot of content on the OP but couldn't find it. Basically, can you now assault after shooting rapid fire?
Rezyn wrote: Has the description for rapid fire been leaked or announced? I looked through a lot of content on the OP but couldn't find it. Basically, can you now assault after shooting rapid fire?
Rapid fire is the same as before, and you can charge after firing any kinda of weapon. Assault weapons let you fire after advancing at -1 to hit.
Rezyn wrote: Has the description for rapid fire been leaked or announced? I looked through a lot of content on the OP but couldn't find it. Basically, can you now assault after shooting rapid fire?
nothing stopping you from doing so no.
its now rapid fire 1, 2, 3 etc
whatever the number is how many shots you get and you double that at half range
Rezyn wrote: Has the description for rapid fire been leaked or announced? I looked through a lot of content on the OP but couldn't find it. Basically, can you now assault after shooting rapid fire?
Double shots at half range, anyone can assault, even heavy weapons.
Eyjio wrote: a lot of the necron infantry has seemed good - it's the vehicles and Destroyers which are looking mediocre.
My Destroyer Cult is very sad...
I'm not sure why people don't like the destroyer. New gauss cannon is the same outside -3 AP and d3 damage, which makes it a good all round weapon. Really good against high armor multi wound infantry, which seems like a big part of the space marine line now, between 2 wound terminators and primaris marines. The heavy gauss cannon is just a better lascannon.
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Do we have any Ork info yet? I'm interested in there vehicular options!
Battlewagon is WS 5+ BS 5+ T 7, W 16, Sv 4+ Power 11 (about 220 points with upgrades included) M, S and A depend on remaining wounds. It is now slightly tougher from the side than it was before, but weaker from the front vs. most weapons. Weapons mostly as expected, deffrolla is good again.
Stompa is BS 5+, T 8, W 40, A 4, Sv 4+ Power 49 (980 points) M, WS and S dependent on remaining wounds. Takes slightly more lascannon shots to wreck now, but degrades as it takes damage which wasn't the case in 7th. Deffkannon is only D6 shots (2D6 vs. units of 20 or more), mega-choppa has two attack modes, one S Userx2 (up to S 20), AP -5, D 6, the other triples the number of attacks at S User, AP -2, D D3. Only gives a re-roll to morale tests for nearby units rather than fearless.
Overall, not looking good for mechanised orks.
Or any orks, in fact, since it seems the basic boy has slowed to M 5" and not decreased in points (i.e. is relatively more expensive compared to basic marines) and mega-armour is now M 4".
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Do we have any Ork info yet? I'm interested in there vehicular options!
Battlewagon is WS 5+ BS 5+ T 7, W 16, Sv 4+ Power 11 (about 220 points with upgrades included) M, S and A depend on remaining wounds. It is now slightly tougher from the side than it was before, but weaker from the front vs. most weapons. Weapons mostly as expected, deffrolla is good again.
Stompa is BS 5+, T 8, W 40, A 4, Sv 4+ Power 49 (980 points) M, WS and S dependent on remaining wounds. Takes slightly more lascannon shots to wreck now, but degrades as it takes damage which wasn't the case in 7th. Deffkannon is only D6 shots (2D6 vs. units of 20 or more), mega-choppa has two attack modes, one S Userx2 (up to S 20), AP -5, D 6, the other triples the number of attacks at S User, AP -2, D D3. Only gives a re-roll to morale tests for nearby units rather than fearless.
Overall, not looking good for mechanised orks.
Or any orks, in fact, since it seems the basic boy has slowed to M 5" and not decreased in points (i.e. is relatively more expensive compared to basic marines) and mega-armour is now M 4".
I wasn't worried about M5 on Orks, because I assumed that would be standard move for non-marine, non-eldar armies (i.e. Tau, IG, etc). But since we've seen that Sisters and Tau move 6, it's a bit of a kick in the pants. Orks have never moved slower than other armies in past editions.
Aeri wrote: Is there any information about Jet Pack units already?
From what we know from the Tau leaks Jet Packs lost JSJ, but have the Fly special rule.
Actually it looks a lot like jump and jet packs both all get fly and don't really have any rules that seperate them beyond keywords.
that would be a huge and unnecessary nerf...
That was the mechanic I liked and got me into playing tau :(
It's also been one of the number one most-complained about mechanics since its inception. It's frustrating to play against and one of the reasons why a lot of people automatically turn down games against Tau, who make the heaviest use of it.
It kinda had to go at some point, and I'm surprised it took this long.
Let's get caught up on these round ups, even if they may be a little useless in the wake of mass leaks...
Faction Focus Space Marines Q: You got to be kidding me. Like we haven't had enough articles on the space marines already? EVEN MORE OF THEM? It's like it will never end and be an infinite loop of MORE MARINES in new 40K. When are we going to get something about Sisters of Battle?
A: But we will bring you an Adepta Sororitas article in the next few days too.
Q: Eagerly waiting to see what the new chapter tactics are like for Raven Guard. Also can you give us a hint about the land raider redeemer's flamestorm cannons? My Grey Knights are very keen to incinerate some heretics
A: Here in the Warhammer Community office, we think flamestorm cannons might just be the best Land Raider option in the new edition...
You heard it here first.
Q: The Omnissiah demands focus upon his blessed warriors or his holy protection upon thy machines may disappear and leave you open to infectious scrapcode!
A: Have you performed the correct rituals?
No faction focus for you, until you perform the correct rituals.
Q: Would have been nice to have some comments on how the new Primaris Space Marines fit into the list. The early look at their points and their comparison to the tactical squad suggests that the new units were not playtested. Warhammer 40,000 Did the playtesters get to test the Primaris space marines with the new rules?
A: [REDACTED] - they did, yes.
All the units across the entire game have been given lots of attention at the playtest stage.
Q: Warhammer 40,000, this sounds really nice for the non-Primaris Spacies... but what about other Chapters? Chapter Tactics? What about the Black Templars that (in principle) least follow the Codex Astartes? Crusader Squads anyone?
Will there be Chapter specific Faction Focus articles?
A: Hi [REDACTED],
Crusader Squads are certainly still a thing.
We'll see if we can cover specific Chapters after we've done at least an overview of all the main armies first.
Q: So the over powered Triumvirate characters are still over powered? He gets back up on a 4+ after soaking up a lot of fire power thanks to his armour. Celestine is bad enough.
A: If anything deserves to be awesome, it's a Primarch.
We haven't seen his points yet though.
Q: Well, Grav Cannons are not worth taking over TL Heavy Bolters on Centurions anymore. Grav Amps do literally nothing now. How disappointing.
The worst part about this article is it rehashed Guiliman and the Dreadnought. We already knew 90% of what was said about them.
I wanted to know what Chapter Tactics do.
A: Hey [REDACTED],
The Grav Amps bonus is incorporated into the statline of the weapon, rather than being a re-roll.
Q: Hasn't virtually everything already been a focus on space marines, like 90% of the statlines and such
A: Hey [REDACTED],
We're not sure that's true. We've had a good look at the new box set Dark Imperium in the last few days, but we hope you can forgive us that. Otherwise, we've seen stats, rules and showcases for almost every army in 40k, and what's not been covered soon will be.
Q: NIce. Can you guys answer one thing? Will vehicles with sponson weapons be able to fire then at different targets of the main weapon or other sponsons?
A: Hey [REDACTED],
Every weapon can fire at a different unit if you like.
This works really well on sponsons, but also on units with a mix of weapons like devastators and havocs.
Q: I want to start a marine army but worried they are going to get phased out with these new marines. Lots of observations supporting that, can GW relieve the anxiety of useless models?
A: Hi [REDACTED],
As [PURGED BY ORDER OF THE INQUISITION] says, we are not getting rid of the current Space Marines.
And also, if you think the new ones look better, and you want to start a new army, why don't you just get those?
Q: My centurions are coming out to play again. But can you still have the sergeant armed with different weapons ie TL lascannons while the other 2 have TL heavy bolters?
A: Yes, and now that works really well, as they can all shoot different stuff!
Q: what about Calgar is he gonna be playable alongside Guilliman?
A: Why would he not be?
Choosing your army Q: What do you guys think would be a normal sized army in the new points system? Like, is 1500 still a standard or should we mentally readjust?
A: We're not sure yet - we haven't worked it out.. but we will!
Q: Hey Warhammer 40000, can a single detachment (say, a battalion) combine different armys? For example, could a single Imperial battalion contain both Space Marines, Skitari and Sisters?
A: They must simply contain the same keyword. That can be as all-encompassing as "Imperium" or be really specific like "Ultramarines". The more specific you make it, the more army bonuses you will get...
Q: I love the idea of power levels to quickly teach someone (like my kids or brand new players) without bogging them down with customization
A: Bingo - it's exactly for that. Cool, isn't it?
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
Q: Hey guys, just wondering if the indexes and rulebooks will be available to purchase on iBooks. I imagine so, but just wanted to be sure. Cheers!
A: Hey Chris - indeed, that's the plan!
Q: Up until now I thought this was all pointless.
A: Hey... we make the puns around here!
Q: "How do I choose the right army for me"
"How about undead egyptian pharaoh metal robot space zombies"
"I'll take 15"
A: You're going to want to take so many more than that...
Q: A little late today Warhammer 40,000 I was getting worried! Thanks for the info on battleforged armies!!
A: Sorry about that...Grots in the system again...
Q: Will there be an official list building app, like Azyr for Sigmar? Or a 40k companion app in general?
A: We have one being planned- it won't be available for release but we will have it ASAP.
Q: Any news about artillery? Weapons not requiring line of sight?
A simple confirmation that they'll be in 8th Edition is a I ask
A: Artillery weapons re most certainly still in the game - we make models of them after all! But as to how they work in-game.. well, we haven't revealed that yet...
Q: Are Chapter Tactics involved in picking my army? Or have those been done away with?
A: Well, we haven't seen the Space Marine codex yet... so we cannot say...
Q: The army roster sheets look cool- will they be available for download so we can print them at our own convenience?
A: That's a great idea. We're on it.
Q: With all the leaks I was wondering if you had forsaken us to wander without official news to guide us.
A: Would we do that to you?!
Aeri wrote: Is there any information about Jet Pack units already?
From what we know from the Tau leaks Jet Packs lost JSJ, but have the Fly special rule.
Actually it looks a lot like jump and jet packs both all get fly and don't really have any rules that seperate them beyond keywords.
that would be a huge and unnecessary nerf...
That was the mechanic I liked and got me into playing tau :(
It's also been one of the number one most-complained about mechanics since its inception. It's frustrating to play against and one of the reasons why a lot of people automatically turn down games against Tau, who make the heaviest use of it.
It kinda had to go at some point, and I'm surprised it took this long.
I honestly didn't find it so offensive on Tau, other than the Riptide. Eldar made that mechanic the most toxic crap ever in 40k, IMO.
Eyjio wrote: a lot of the necron infantry has seemed good - it's the vehicles and Destroyers which are looking mediocre.
My Destroyer Cult is very sad...
I'm not sure why people don't like the destroyer. New gauss cannon is the same outside -3 AP and d3 damage, which makes it a good all round weapon. Really good against high armor multi wound infantry, which seems like a big part of the space marine line now, between 2 wound terminators and primaris marines. The heavy gauss cannon is just a better lascannon.
Well, let me put it to you like this: would you rather have 1 Destroyer with a Gauss cannon for 63 points, who fires 2 S5 AP-3 shots which are -1 BS if they move, 3 Immortals for 57 points with 3 rapid fire S5 AP-2 shots, or 5 Warriors for 60 points who fire 5 Rapid fire S4 AP-1 shots? It's a tough choice between the Immortals and Warriors IMO, but the Destroyer is never what I'm going with, even if it has T5 W3 3+ and hits on 2+ (which is all pure speculation and would be a huge buff) - it's damage output is too low and the new reanimation protocol rewards taking lots of bodies. Heck, Immortals could fire 6 S5 tesla shots if they wanted, which averages out to be 6 hits or 5 if they ran. Similarly, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that 75 points for one lascannon-with-bonus-AP shot is worth close to 75 points, even if it's 100% guaranteed to hit. They're insanely expensive and really, they aren't that dangerous because they don;t have enough shots. So yeah, they look pretty bad on the face of it.
Eyjio wrote: a lot of the necron infantry has seemed good - it's the vehicles and Destroyers which are looking mediocre.
My Destroyer Cult is very sad...
I'm not sure why people don't like the destroyer. New gauss cannon is the same outside -3 AP and d3 damage, which makes it a good all round weapon. Really good against high armor multi wound infantry, which seems like a big part of the space marine line now, between 2 wound terminators and primaris marines. The heavy gauss cannon is just a better lascannon.
Well, let me put it to you like this: would you rather have 1 Destroyer with a Gauss cannon for 63 points, who fires 2 S5 AP-3 shots which are -1 BS if they move, 3 Immortals for 57 points with 3 rapid fire S5 AP-2 shots, or 5 Warriors for 60 points who fire 5 Rapid fire S4 AP-1 shots? It's a tough choice between the Immortals and Warriors IMO, but the Destroyer is never what I'm going with, even if it has T5 W3 3+ and hits on 2+ (which is all pure speculation and would be a huge buff) - it's damage output is too low and the new reanimation protocol rewards taking lots of bodies. Heck, Immortals could fire 6 S5 tesla shots if they wanted, which averages out to be 6 hits or 5 if they ran. Similarly, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that 75 points for one lascannon-with-bonus-AP shot is worth close to 75 points, even if it's 100% guaranteed to hit. They're insanely expensive and really, they aren't that dangerous because they don;t have enough shots. So yeah, they look pretty bad on the face of it.
If you've seen the Destroyer datasheet feel free to share it with us. Otherwise judging two units based on half information is pretty pointless.
SW Spells being better than Tzeentch spells is a painful thing.
How is this terrifying? Slowest infantry units so far seem to be moving 4 inches. A lot of them are at 6 inches.
Averaging a 7 on those 2d6, this will be 1 wound on a mov 6 unit. Roll a 12 and it could be 6... however roll anything under that 7 and it does nothing.
Guys, I start to believe chapter tactics are just gone. Did they ever confirm, that they are still in? In the latest Q&A they avoid to say anything about them and looking at the BA leaks they are nowhere to be found. Only Deathcompany stuff is sporting some additional rules.
SW Spells being better than Tzeentch spells is a painful thing.
How is this terrifying? Slowest infantry units so far seem to be moving 4 inches. A lot of them are at 6 inches.
Averaging a 7 on those 2d6, this will be 1 wound on a mov 6 unit. Roll a 12 and it could be 6... however roll anything under that 7 and it does nothing.
It seems like a decently balanced spell to me.
Compare it with other known spells.
Tzeentch has "bolt of change" which on the roll of a 7+, you do -1d3- damage, and if it kills a character you're allowed to pay points to summon a chaos spawn.
It's a good spell, and hilariously better than others.
EDIT: Also, yes, its dependant on what you're using the power on, but on slower units it's a huge hit.
Requizen wrote: If you've seen the Destroyer datasheet feel free to share it with us. Otherwise judging two units based on half information is pretty pointless.
If you say so chief. We know their weapons, and unless Destroyers literally autohit, or fire twice, they're less dangerous to any given unit than the same amount of points in Immortals. Maybe it turns out they're super mobile, but until we find out full details,if they're not massively different to their current rules they're DOA.
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
How does this mesh with what seems to be the consensus in this thread that no weapons are included in the price of the base model?
rhavien wrote: Guys, I start to believe chapter tactics are just gone. Did they ever confirm, that they are still in? In the latest Q&A they avoid to say anything about them and looking at the BA leaks they are nowhere to be found. Only Deathcompany stuff is sporting some additional rules.
Let me quote GW Facebook on this one:
Q: Are Chapter Tactics involved in picking my army? Or have those been done away with?
A: Well, we haven't seen the Space Marine codex yet... so we cannot say...
In other words, they'll be in the codex, not the index.
Welcome to Disagree, I suppose. Treason is fine, I'm just forever salty about Bolt of Change being absolute garbage in matched play.
The only reason I don't like bolt is that its more mortal wounds, BUT if it lets us sniper characters...(since we have no snipers). That would justify the 7 casting value.
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
How does this mesh with what seems to be the consensus in this thread that no weapons are included in the price of the base model?
Most base weapons are 0 points, which is what they may be referring to.
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
How does this mesh with what seems to be the consensus in this thread that no weapons are included in the price of the base model?
Most characters come with nothing.
Most units come with the "default" load out (Bolters for marines for example).
The interesting thing is to see what some units get as the default loadout. Terminators are AMAZING at 26 points for a stormbolter and power fist....if they come naked (very likely) then they are....not good at 48 points after paying for the fist and SB.
Not sure why this is hard to figure out for people.
SW Spells being better than Tzeentch spells is a painful thing.
I beg to differ. Treason can make a character shoot, charge, and melee his own army! Now we just need to find a LD reducing ability...
The boon is also as good or better than the other two SW spells.
Welcome to Disagree, I suppose. Treason is fine, I'm just forever salty about Bolt of Change being absolute garbage in matched play.
This does kind of assume that Bolt of Change requires paying for the spawn. We don't yet know if that counts as "summoning". Given that we have only seen a short blurb in the words of the person that leaked it, you may want to hold off. Probably a bit early yet to start the doom/gloom engine. Especially with regard to JotWW which will usually do around what Smite can to most infantry units, but with a higher casting number and unlike smite, may still fail to do jack even after you succeed at casting it.
I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
How does this mesh with what seems to be the consensus in this thread that no weapons are included in the price of the base model?
Most base weapons are 0 points, which is what they may be referring to.
Lots of moaning that vehicles are so expensive now because you have to buy all the weapons that come with them separately though. If that's not the case, they get a lot cheaper.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
I sincerely hope that's true, otherwise the increased points cost of my models really stings.
SW Spells being better than Tzeentch spells is a painful thing.
I beg to differ. Treason can make a character shoot, charge, and melee his own army! Now we just need to find a LD reducing ability...
The boon is also as good or better than the other two SW spells.
Welcome to Disagree, I suppose. Treason is fine, I'm just forever salty about Bolt of Change being absolute garbage in matched play.
This does kind of assume that Bolt of Change requires paying for the spawn. We don't yet know if that counts as "summoning". Given that we have only seen a short blurb in the words of the person that leaked it, you may want to hold off. Probably a bit early yet to start the doom/gloom engine. Especially with regard to JotWW which will usually do around what Smite can to most infantry units, but with a higher casting number and unlike smite, may still fail to do jack even after you succeed at casting it.
In AOS all abilities that add models to your army that did not start there, cost points. It is an assumption that is how things will work in 8th edition, I will cede that to you. However, I feel it is a safe assumption. Split, summoning, etc, all have been confirmed to cost points.
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
How does this mesh with what seems to be the consensus in this thread that no weapons are included in the price of the base model?
Most base weapons are 0 points, which is what they may be referring to.
Lots of moaning that vehicles are so expensive now because you have to buy all the weapons that come with them separately though. If that's not the case, they get a lot cheaper.
The basic Rhino is 70pts now, Raiders are 95pts.
Vehicles went up, but many other things also went down and some went up. The DE post about army points GW just put is only a 9pt difference from 7th ed with the hick in vehicle points.
Over all it is based on the army. I'm sure there is a system now that determines the points.
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Do we have any Ork info yet? I'm interested in there vehicular options!
Battlewagon is WS 5+ BS 5+ T 7, W 16, Sv 4+ Power 11 (about 220 points with upgrades included) M, S and A depend on remaining wounds. It is now slightly tougher from the side than it was before, but weaker from the front vs. most weapons. Weapons mostly as expected, deffrolla is good again.
Stompa is BS 5+, T 8, W 40, A 4, Sv 4+ Power 49 (980 points) M, WS and S dependent on remaining wounds. Takes slightly more lascannon shots to wreck now, but degrades as it takes damage which wasn't the case in 7th. Deffkannon is only D6 shots (2D6 vs. units of 20 or more), mega-choppa has two attack modes, one S Userx2 (up to S 20), AP -5, D 6, the other triples the number of attacks at S User, AP -2, D D3. Only gives a re-roll to morale tests for nearby units rather than fearless.
Overall, not looking good for mechanised orks.
Or any orks, in fact, since it seems the basic boy has slowed to M 5" and not decreased in points (i.e. is relatively more expensive compared to basic marines) and mega-armour is now M 4".
I wasn't worried about M5 on Orks, because I assumed that would be standard move for non-marine, non-eldar armies (i.e. Tau, IG, etc). But since we've seen that Sisters and Tau move 6, it's a bit of a kick in the pants. Orks have never moved slower than other armies in past editions.
Hmm. I'm still working towards my Kanz, Dreads, and 'Naughts Mobs, not going to be too dissuaded about Orks yet. That does seem odd that Sisters and Tau move 6, but the boyz can charge after advancing on a Waaagh, so maybe that evens out.
Didn't the Stompa lose weapons as it was damaged? Or it didn't because of Super-Heavy status?
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
Pretty sure they mis-understood the question as most individuals will start with their default gear basically being free. So for example a boltgun and grenades is free so marines effectively start with it at that points level.
Otherwise things are ridiculously cheap compared to their power levels if they get their default equipment for free as well as the cost to upgrade a unit gets rediculously expensive.
65 points for a cent with twin heavy bolters and hurricane bolters versus 140 for one with twin lascannon and missile. Yeah not likely.
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
How does this mesh with what seems to be the consensus in this thread that no weapons are included in the price of the base model?
Most base weapons are 0 points, which is what they may be referring to.
Lots of moaning that vehicles are so expensive now because you have to buy all the weapons that come with them separately though. If that's not the case, they get a lot cheaper.
The basic Rhino is 70pts now, Raiders are 95pts.
Vehicles went up, but many other things also went down and some went up. The DE post about army points GW just put is only a 9pt difference from 7th ed with the hick in vehicle points.
Over all it is based on the army. I'm sure there is a system now that determines the points.
Well if some one have the points for a stock Raider then they can just look if 116pts is with the 2 upgrades are paied for. Not that hard.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
How much do you wanna bet they are wrong?
Because, in willing to bet your 2 wound 2 attack 2+ save unit isn't going to get a d3 damage power sword and short range assault bolter for less than twice the price of a normal tactical marine. Those weapons alone cost 22 points in the blood angels section.
That or balance is so utterly screwed up that 8th edition rules are meaningless as we all play 7e (or they do say one point updates).
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
I sincerely hope that's true, otherwise the increased points cost of my models really stings.
Isn't that how you read that? I mean if you go to every data sheet, they have listed what their default gear is. Otherwise there is some VERY hefty price increases in all of these books, like land raiders for well over 300 points is pretty ridiculous tbh if your playing 1500 or 1850 point games. It makes much more sense that a unit comes with standard gear in their base price, then you can spend a bunch more to upgrade. A DC dread with a couple heavy flamers and furioso fists in a pod would be over 300 points, thats nuts if thats the case. When I played in 6th (didn't bother with 7th) you could get a furioso with fists, a HF, in pod for 170 points, so if GW wants to make stuff like dreads balanced/better/competitive, I doubt they would double the price, because they are certainly not all that much more survivable, some yes, but not double points survivable.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
I sincerely hope that's true, otherwise the increased points cost of my models really stings.
Isn't that how you read that? I mean if you go to every data sheet, they have listed what their default gear is. Otherwise there is some VERY hefty price increases in all of these books, like land raiders for well over 300 points is pretty ridiculous tbh if your playing 1500 or 1850 point games. It makes much more sense that a unit comes with standard gear in their base price, then you can spend a bunch more to upgrade. A DC dread with a couple heavy flamers and furioso fists in a pod would be over 300 points, thats nuts if thats the case. When I played in 6th (didn't bother with 7th) you could get a furioso with fists, a HF, in pod for 170 points, so if GW wants to make stuff like dreads balanced/better/competitive, I doubt they would double the price, because they are certainly not all that much more survivable, some yes, but not double points survivable.
They list what the default wargear is, but some of that wargear has a points cost attached to it.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
Where did you hear this because I dont think its true as otherwise a stormsurge is 150 points....
Yeah, that's not how it works IMO. That notion of basic weapons being free is kinda covered, for example with Marines, by the bolter's cost being zero. same with grenades. Stuff with a cost gets paid for - so in the case of vehicles, everything.
Let's nip this particular idea in the bud or we'll be 10 pages arguing back and forth about it.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
Where did you hear this because I dont think its true as otherwise a stormsurge is 150 points....
40k Facebook page Q&A stuff.
That said, I posted on their page for clarification on what they meant and hopefully in a day or so we'll get a response.
For now I assume we should err on the side of caution and assume that if the wargear list has a points cost, it costs points until we can see otherwise.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
Where did you hear this because I dont think its true as otherwise a stormsurge is 150 points....
40k Facebook page Q&A stuff.
That said, I posted on their page for clarification on what they meant and hopefully in a day or so we'll get a response.
For now I assume we should err on the side of caution and assume that if the wargear list has a points cost, it costs points until we can see otherwise.
Yeah the more I think about it the less sense it makes. There would be some crazy cheap and crazy expensive units. I guess GW is just too stupid to answer a basic question, not really surprising i suppose though....
Voldrak wrote: How is this terrifying? Slowest infantry units so far seem to be moving 4 inches. A lot of them are at 6 inches.
Averaging a 7 on those 2d6, this will be 1 wound on a mov 6 unit. Roll a 12 and it could be 6... however roll anything under that 7 and it does nothing.
That's up to 6 wounds without any kind of saves allowed on most units, 8 on the slowest. It basically has the potential to wipe an entire unit or a character in one dice roll. I know what the avrages are, thank you, I just think it will be terrifying to be on the receiving end, hoping that the SW player doesn't roll that double 6...
If you don't have to pay for the default loadout on top if the price for without wargear this edition is doomed. Nothing make sense or would be balance. You get 150 pts stormsurge running around with 23pts Hellblaster and very gakky overpriced 13pts marines without any plasma gun.
"Warhammer 40,000 All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model."
They are so obviously wrong that I'm actually really worried what it could mean for the more "casual" players that will see that and take it as gospel. We know it's not correct but a lot of people will just take their word for it.
Oh thank Mork'n'Gork, some stuff would be utterly insane if it came at the listed cost. Glad it appears to have been a misunderstanding on the Q&A person's part.
Voldrak wrote: How is this terrifying? Slowest infantry units so far seem to be moving 4 inches. A lot of them are at 6 inches.
Averaging a 7 on those 2d6, this will be 1 wound on a mov 6 unit. Roll a 12 and it could be 6... however roll anything under that 7 and it does nothing.
That's up to 6 wounds without any kind of saves allowed on most units, 8 on the slowest. It basically has the potential to wipe an entire unit or a character in one dice roll. I know what the avrages are, thank you, I just think it will be terrifying to be on the receiving end, hoping that the SW player doesn't roll that double 6...
"Warhammer 40,000 All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model."
They are so obviously wrong that I'm actually really worried what it could mean for the more "casual" players that will see that and take it as gospel. We know it's not correct but a lot of people will just take their word for it.
Yeah, for about as long as it takes the first guy they play who does know the rules to smack them upside the head. Problem solved.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
Where did you hear this because I dont think its true as otherwise a stormsurge is 150 points....
40k Facebook page Q&A stuff.
That said, I posted on their page for clarification on what they meant and hopefully in a day or so we'll get a response.
For now I assume we should err on the side of caution and assume that if the wargear list has a points cost, it costs points until we can see otherwise.
Yeah the more I think about it the less sense it makes. There would be some crazy cheap and crazy expensive units. I guess GW is just too stupid to answer a basic question, not really surprising i suppose though....
Assuming that he's mentally deficient for misunderstanding the question is a bit of a stretch. Even the smartest people can be tripped up by a small misunderstanding. Hence why clarification is so important to ensure a complete understanding.
That said, Foley killed the problem before it became an issue: you pay points if the wargear has a cost.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
I sincerely hope that's true, otherwise the increased points cost of my models really stings.
So a unit has to bought their basic equipement. Heck, it is said in the model prices. It sais "Model without wargear". If a model comes with a basic gun that cost 0 points, you pay the cost of the model+0 points. If a model comes with a basic gun that cost 20 points, you pay the cost of the model+20 points.
SW Spells being better than Tzeentch spells is a painful thing.
I beg to differ. Treason can make a character shoot, charge, and melee his own army! Now we just need to find a LD reducing ability...
The boon is also as good or better than the other two SW spells.
Welcome to Disagree, I suppose. Treason is fine, I'm just forever salty about Bolt of Change being absolute garbage in matched play.
This does kind of assume that Bolt of Change requires paying for the spawn. We don't yet know if that counts as "summoning". Given that we have only seen a short blurb in the words of the person that leaked it, you may want to hold off. Probably a bit early yet to start the doom/gloom engine. Especially with regard to JotWW which will usually do around what Smite can to most infantry units, but with a higher casting number and unlike smite, may still fail to do jack even after you succeed at casting it.
In AOS all abilities that add models to your army that did not start there, cost points. It is an assumption that is how things will work in 8th edition, I will cede that to you. However, I feel it is a safe assumption. Split, summoning, etc, all have been confirmed to cost points.
Unless like the tervigon the points are baked into the cost of the units. Its hard to tell with the spawn spell since its not exactly easy to spam or to get it to trigger.
There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.
I'd settle for some screenshots in any language. As long as I can make out the statlines and some weapon stats.
We have Italian ones in this thread already of a few things.
As far as I know we have the Stompa and the Mega Warboss. I want to see boyz and trukks and bikes and weapons. We've gotten quite a few screenshots for other factions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Imperial Knight leaks:
Brian888 wrote: There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.
Go read the blood angels Blood Boil power then, imo, its garbage and worse than smite. The other 2 powers are decent/good but its junk.
Brian888 wrote: There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.
Given that part of its mechanic involves characters i'd almost guarantee it.
Brian888 wrote: There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.
Go read the blood angels Blood Boil power then, imo, its garbage and worse than smite. The other 2 powers are decent/good but its junk.
I'd settle for some screenshots in any language. As long as I can make out the statlines and some weapon stats.
We have Italian ones in this thread already of a few things.
As far as I know we have the Stompa and the Mega Warboss. I want to see boyz and trukks and bikes and weapons. We've gotten quite a few screenshots for other factions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Imperial Knight leaks:
Spoiler:
Oh good, we don't need to pay for the feet.
320 base for a 24 wound model seems reasonable on paper. It'll be a while before I can really sit down and figure out what feels "right" for points though.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
No, in the rules it says all models count as having a base weapon for combat. I think this is whats causing confusion, otherwise those charts make NO SENSE. I mean do you really think a hellblaster should be a point less then an intercessor?
I really don't get the need to give datasheets for all the knight variants. They all have the same stats, just with different weapon options. Why not just one datasheet with all the different weapons options? What am I missing here?
Gordon Shumway wrote: I really don't get the need to give datasheets for all the knight variants. They all have the same stats, just with different weapon options. Why not just one datasheet with all the different weapons options? What am I missing here?
For Power levels. No way to balance all those options at a single Power level, so they broke them down to give a better array of power levels.
Brian888 wrote: There has to be more going on with Bolt of Change that we just don't know about yet (e.g., the ability to snipe characters with it). Otherwise it seems like an inferior version of Smite if you have to reserve points for the Spawn.
It's possible, however for now it does seem like warm garbage.
bobafett012 wrote: I've seen a bunch of posts saying that the points costs are model only no wargear, but GW just answered this question
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
For example, Sanguinary guard come with Angelus boltgun, encarmine sword and frag and krak grenades all for 22 points a model. You can add or upgrade weapons for more but 22 is for the model with default equipment.
No, in the rules it says all models count as having a base weapon for combat. I think this is whats causing confusion, otherwise those charts make NO SENSE. I mean do you really think a hellblaster should be a point less then an intercessor?
"Warhammer 40,000 All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model."
They are so obviously wrong that I'm actually really worried what it could mean for the more "casual" players that will see that and take it as gospel. We know it's not correct but a lot of people will just take their word for it.
This is why it makes no sense for one person to do a Q&A who isn't even part of rules development.
A large portion of what he has answered in these Q&A sessions has been flat out wrong.
"Warhammer 40,000 All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model."
They are so obviously wrong that I'm actually really worried what it could mean for the more "casual" players that will see that and take it as gospel. We know it's not correct but a lot of people will just take their word for it.
This is why it makes no sense for one person to do a Q&A who isn't even part of rules development.
A large portion of what he has answered in these Q&A sessions has been flat out wrong.
"Warhammer 40,000 All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model."
They are so obviously wrong that I'm actually really worried what it could mean for the more "casual" players that will see that and take it as gospel. We know it's not correct but a lot of people will just take their word for it.
This is why it makes no sense for one person to do a Q&A who isn't even part of rules development.
A large portion of what he has answered in these Q&A sessions has been flat out wrong.
No, he's done a fairly solid job. The thing is we have to accept that he works with the rules team, but isn't a part of it. He's one person who is not infallible. Even if he was on the rules team he could still make mistakes or misunderstand a question.
Pointing blame and getting mad about it won't solve anything and just drags the thread off topic. Let's focus on actual information we have instead of this.
No, he's done a fairly solid job. The thing is we have to accept that he works with the rules team, but isn't a part of it. He's one person who is not infallible. Even if he was on the rules team he could still make mistakes or misunderstand a question.
Pointing blame and getting mad about it won't solve anything and just drags the thread off topic. Let's focus on actual information we have instead of this.
It's also not an official Q&A. It's just the social media person responding to posts as best they are able to.
"Warhammer 40,000 All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model."
They are so obviously wrong that I'm actually really worried what it could mean for the more "casual" players that will see that and take it as gospel. We know it's not correct but a lot of people will just take their word for it.
This is why it makes no sense for one person to do a Q&A who isn't even part of rules development.
A large portion of what he has answered in these Q&A sessions has been flat out wrong.
No, he's done a fairly solid job. The thing is we have to accept that he works with the rules team, but isn't a part of it. He's one person who is not infallible. Even if he was on the rules team he could still make mistakes or misunderstand a question.
Pointing blame and getting mad about it won't solve anything and just drags the thread off topic. Let's focus on actual information we have instead of this.
First, I am not mad thank you for your concern though
Second, how well he's done is subjective. But, objectively, he has misled the community several times now when he tries to clarify any really meaningful data and not making, albeit funny, but meaningless jokes and puns.
They don't even filter the questions, so 90%+ is people asking for their factions.
And for the record the thread gets way off topic any time someone posts one of his horrid rules "clarifications."
No, he's done a fairly solid job. The thing is we have to accept that he works with the rules team, but isn't a part of it. He's one person who is not infallible. Even if he was on the rules team he could still make mistakes or misunderstand a question.
Pointing blame and getting mad about it won't solve anything and just drags the thread off topic. Let's focus on actual information we have instead of this.
It's also not an official Q&A. It's just the social media person responding to posts as best they are able to.
This is not true. He officially works for GW and he officially was given the task and responsibility to answer the publics questions for PR. Everything about what he is doing is official.
Gordon Shumway wrote: Why would you need reserve points for the spawn. You aren't summoning it, you are turning the character into one. It looks like a neat power to me.
That's generally how similar powers work in AoS, so I'm assuming that's how Bolt of Change will work in match play in 8th. We don't know for sure, though.
Gordon Shumway wrote: Why would you need reserve points for the spawn. You aren't summoning it, you are turning the character into one. It looks like a neat power to me.
That's generally how similar powers work in AoS, so I'm assuming that's how Bolt of Change will work in match play in 8th. We don't know for sure, though.
If you DO NOT have to pay points for it, it's fine. If you DO, It's awful.
It really doesn't matter what the FB guy says about points - I'm 100% certain the actual books will explain how it works. There won't be any confusion for new players.
This is not true. He officially works for GW and he officially was given the task and responsibility to answer the publics questions for PR. Everything about what he is doing is official.
GW is not soliciting questions on their facebook page. They are posting the article, people are commenting, and the social media team is responding. A real Q&A is when Pete streams live and tells people to ask questions.
This is not true. He officially works for GW and he officially was given the task and responsibility to answer the publics questions for PR. Everything about what he is doing is official.
It's PR.
It's no more "official" than the emails you get from GW or FW when you ask for a rules clarification.
Ok guys, here are the points cost of current Imperial Knights versus new Imperial Knights accounting for all the smaller guns they are equipped with (i.e. a Paladin has two Heavy Stubbers) EDIT: Fixed a few mistakes, I forgot to count the Reaper Chainswords for some of the variants and somehow pointed Gallants higher than the others
Universal for all -
OLD *Add +5 points to replace a Heavy Stubber with a Meltagun
NEW *Add +17 points to replace a Heavy Stubber with a Meltagun (but you don't pay for the original Heavy Stubber being replaced, so it's more like +13 points)
Crusader OLD - 425 (with Thermal Cannon)
Crusader OLD - 430 (with Rapid Fire Battle Cannon)
Crusader NEW - 512 (with Thermal Cannon)
Crusader NEW - 540 (with Rapid Fire Battle Cannon)
Errant OLD - 370
Errant NEW - 430
Gallant OLD - 325
Gallant NEW - 389
Paladin OLD - 375
Paladin NEW - 458
Warden OLD - 375
Warden NEW - 466
Thunderstrike Gauntlets are only 5 points more expensive than Reaper Chainswords now as opposed to 10 points more expensive.
Now, as for those top-mounted guns...
Ironstorm Missile Pod OLD - 30
Ironstorm Missile Pod NEW - 16
Stormspear Rocket Pod OLD - 40
Stormspear Rocket Pod NEW - 45
Twin Icarus Autocannon OLD - 35
Twin Icarus Autocannon NEW - 30
SirDalavar wrote: Is anyone able to read/trans the small section above these psykic powers? it mentions something about D3
You either select the powers you want or you select them randomly using a D3
?!!
That's a pretty big "or".
(assuming it let's you choose instead of making to roll, why would anyone ever want to roll?)
It says you have the option to roll a D3 to randomly select your power or you can just choose.
The reason you should roll is exactly why they introduced randomly generated power in the first place; so that the best ones aren't auto-include (and all that can entail) and the rest languish. It's the AoS model. However, if not forced to roll and generate powers randomly, then yes, I don't see why anyone would ever do it.
A lot of people roll because it's fun and oesnt matter in a friendly game.
The idea that a C'tan can hide behind infantry despite being about 4 times as tall is making me laugh about as much as that monolith is making me despair. I guess they decided to solve the issue of C'tan dying almost immediately by instead making enemies really terrible shots, and Necrons have outsourced their monolith crews to the Imperial Guard. Seriously, what's the excuse for making a vehicle which has been BS4 since it was first in the game hit on a 4+? 380 points and the best you can give us is 2 Leman Russes glued together? Jesus. I'm sure it's all fair and balanced, but come on, why even change that arbitrarily?
Yeah, C'tan Shards are actually great again by the looks of it. Hard to kill on their own merits, but they are Characters that have those targeting rules so keeping them near your infantry is a great idea. Their damage output ranges from good to great and they each have their own cool abilities.
At least, that's what is the case for the Deceiver and Nightbringer, no word on the Transcendent C'tan...
Sidstyler wrote: Yeah, but you know how it goes, Tau took the lion's share of complaints for it from what I've seen.
I think I saw complaints about it in 4th when it was apparently easier to get behind full cover. I don't think I have ever seen serious complaints about Tau JSJ in 5th to 7th. Battlesuits are still slow and determined enemy can always catch them, or shoot them through cover.
I doubt removing JSJ does anything for Tau at this point, however. The army has already become a parody of stompy Mecha monsters and what I've seen of the leaked rules, seems this trend is only reinforced. Nobody cares what small suits, infantry or vehicles do at this point anymore. Now it's all about Stormsurges dual wielding Riptides.
Caederes wrote: Ok guys, here are the points cost of current Imperial Knights versus new Imperial Knights accounting for all the smaller guns they are equipped with (i.e. a Paladin has two Heavy Stubbers) EDIT: Fixed a few mistakes, I forgot to count the Reaper Chainswords for some of the variants and somehow pointed Gallants higher than the others
Universal for all -
OLD *Add +5 points to replace a Heavy Stubber with a Meltagun
NEW *Add +17 points to replace a Heavy Stubber with a Meltagun (but you don't pay for the original Heavy Stubber being replaced, so it's more like +13 points)
Crusader OLD - 425 (with Thermal Cannon)
Crusader OLD - 430 (with Rapid Fire Battle Cannon)
Crusader NEW - 512 (with Thermal Cannon)
Crusader NEW - 540 (with Rapid Fire Battle Cannon)
Errant OLD - 370
Errant NEW - 430
Gallant OLD - 325
Gallant NEW - 389
Paladin OLD - 375
Paladin NEW - 458
Warden OLD - 375
Warden NEW - 466
Thunderstrike Gauntlets are only 5 points more expensive than Reaper Chainswords now as opposed to 10 points more expensive.
Now, as for those top-mounted guns...
Ironstorm Missile Pod OLD - 30
Ironstorm Missile Pod NEW - 16
Stormspear Rocket Pod OLD - 40
Stormspear Rocket Pod NEW - 45
Twin Icarus Autocannon OLD - 35
Twin Icarus Autocannon NEW - 30
Automatically Appended Next Post: Imperial Knight leaks:
Spoiler:
Lack of double gats is a shame. But so far the index books don't seem to be about adding anything, just translating the existing lists to the new rules.
I hate to be a downer, but I don't see the keyword "Character" on that Nightbringer's datasheet.
So it doesn't matter that it has <10 wounds....it cannot hide behind warriors.
Caederes wrote: Ok guys, here are the points cost of current Imperial Knights versus new Imperial Knights accounting for all the smaller guns they are equipped with (i.e. a Paladin has two Heavy Stubbers) EDIT: Fixed a few mistakes, I forgot to count the Reaper Chainswords for some of the variants and somehow pointed Gallants higher than the others
Universal for all -
OLD *Add +5 points to replace a Heavy Stubber with a Meltagun
NEW *Add +17 points to replace a Heavy Stubber with a Meltagun (but you don't pay for the original Heavy Stubber being replaced, so it's more like +13 points)
Crusader OLD - 425 (with Thermal Cannon)
Crusader OLD - 430 (with Rapid Fire Battle Cannon)
Crusader NEW - 512 (with Thermal Cannon)
Crusader NEW - 540 (with Rapid Fire Battle Cannon)
Errant OLD - 370
Errant NEW - 430
Gallant OLD - 325
Gallant NEW - 389
Paladin OLD - 375
Paladin NEW - 458
Warden OLD - 375
Warden NEW - 466
Thunderstrike Gauntlets are only 5 points more expensive than Reaper Chainswords now as opposed to 10 points more expensive.
Now, as for those top-mounted guns...
Ironstorm Missile Pod OLD - 30
Ironstorm Missile Pod NEW - 16
Stormspear Rocket Pod OLD - 40
Stormspear Rocket Pod NEW - 45
Twin Icarus Autocannon OLD - 35
Twin Icarus Autocannon NEW - 30
Ouch. That is a major bump in price.
They have 24 wounds. I think a points bump was well deserved.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Are the Necron leaks translated anywhere or should I take a quick crash course in Italian?
My Italian and Spanish are pretty decent, I'll go hop in my desktop and do a rough translation. Anything in particular you want?
The Overlord if you can do it, the picture is kinda fuzzy, thanks friend
I'm going to try and google translate the monolith
Woah. Out of focus picture is out of focus.
Overlord
Top weapon is assault 3, S 3 (or 5?) AP -2, 1 Damage. Next weapon is a S user melee weapon. Extra weapon options are illegible to me.
He has Living Metal (no description); globe of resurrection (After you make your reanimation protocol roll for a unit it does something. I think reanimated an extra guy per unit within 3", but it's hard to see with the glare, and it's blurred or cut off on the other datasheets. Can only use once per game); a 4++; and Obey my will (or something). I came read the text, but it does something to infantry within 6". Not super helpful, I know. :/
Keywords are infantry, character and overlord
The Lord on the same page:
Same weapons. Can take weapons from Melee list or a resurrection globe
Same resurrection globe effect, and living metal. Also has Will of the Lord: you can reroll failed moral tests for friendly <dynasty> within 6" of this model
Keywords are character, infantry, lord
I'll get to work on the others in a moment.
Galef wrote: I hate to be a downer, but I don't see the keyword "Character" on that Nightbringer's datasheet.
So it doesn't matter that it has <10 wounds....it cannot hide behind warriors.
-
I figured that's what "personae" meant...but I don't speak italian though.
Galef wrote: I hate to be a downer, but I don't see the keyword "Character" on that Nightbringer's datasheet.
So it doesn't matter that it has <10 wounds....it cannot hide behind warriors.
Posted in the tactics forum but necrons are looking like disgusting infantry lawn mowers and molten slag against vehicles (or really anything T8). Majority str7 weapons mean little to deal with heavy vehicles or MCs. Indeed, tyranids are looking daunting.
Galef wrote: I hate to be a downer, but I don't see the keyword "Character" on that Nightbringer's datasheet.
So it doesn't matter that it has <10 wounds....it cannot hide behind warriors.
-
I'm pretty sure "personae" is character.
Oh, I didn't even realize that wasn't in English. The pic is so small that I assumed it was English and didn't see a keyword that looked like "Character"
indeed that is exciting if C'tan can finally 'hide' behind units.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Are the Necron leaks translated anywhere or should I take a quick crash course in Italian?
My Italian and Spanish are pretty decent, I'll go hop in my desktop and do a rough translation. Anything in particular you want?
The Overlord if you can do it, the picture is kinda fuzzy, thanks friend
I'm going to try and google translate the monolith
Rough translate:
Living Metal:
Explosion:
Flying fortress: can move and shoot heavy weapons without the neg penalty
Gravitic: Always measure distances from the hull despite the base.
Descendind Death: On deployment you can set up the monolith on High altitude at the end of any of your movement phases it can drop to the Battlefield deploying at 12""+ from enemy units.
Portal of Exile: When an enemy unit (can't read properly next word so can be any of next two) even/unless Monster and Vehicles , charge against the monolith roll 1d6 and check with the Dmg table if it *wounds* the charging unit takes 1d6 mortal wounds
Eternity Gate: When you deploy you can set up any number of Infantry < Dinasty> units away before the Monolith moves on each one of your movement phases you can place a single unit in the Battlefield as long all models are withint 5" of the monolith and more than 1" from enemy. If all friendly Monoliths or Night Scythes are destroyed units not deployed are lost.
P.S: Curiously they no longer refer to reserve but to special actions Descending Death refer to setting the Monolith into the upper Atmosphere while Eternity Gate refers to the units being kept in a Tomb World.
Eyjio wrote:The idea that a C'tan can hide behind infantry despite being about 4 times as tall is making me laugh about as much as that monolith is making me despair. I guess they decided to solve the issue of C'tan dying almost immediately by instead making enemies really terrible shots, and Necrons have outsourced their monolith crews to the Imperial Guard. Seriously, what's the excuse for making a vehicle which has been BS4 since it was first in the game hit on a 4+? 380 points and the best you can give us is 2 Leman Russes glued together? Jesus. I'm sure it's all fair and balanced, but come on, why even change that arbitrarily?
Monolith killing potential is offset by high number of shots (that first profile has four shots, so 12 S5 Ap-2, 6 S8 AP-2 multidamage. Even at low BS, that's pretty decent.
But the other thing that offsets it some more is the utility. Anti-charge utility, teleports reliably instead of deploys (eat that drop pod meltas!), and teleports friendly units. More of a mobile base and wall than a killing platform, which I'm ok with.
buddha wrote:Posted in the tactics forum but necrons are looking like disgusting infantry lawn mowers and molten slag against vehicles (or really anything T8). Majority str7 weapons mean little to deal with heavy vehicles or MCs. Indeed, tyranids are looking daunting.
While we will have trouble wounding high toughness things on a 4+ or better, all of our weapons having better AP than standard equivalents (and those Shards with AP-4) and lots of things with multi damage means that any damage we do get through are going to stick, super hard.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Are the Necron leaks translated anywhere or should I take a quick crash course in Italian?
My Italian and Spanish are pretty decent, I'll go hop in my desktop and do a rough translation. Anything in particular you want?
The Overlord if you can do it, the picture is kinda fuzzy, thanks friend
I'm going to try and google translate the monolith
Woah. Out of focus picture is out of focus. Overlord Top weapon is assault 3, S 3 (or 5?) AP -2, 1 Damage. Next weapon is a S user melee weapon. Extra weapon options are illegible to me. He has Living Metal (no description); globe of resurrection (After you make your reanimation protocol roll for a unit it does something. I think reanimated an extra guy per unit within 3", but it's hard to see with the glare, and it's blurred or cut off on the other datasheets. Can only use once per game); a 4++; and Obey my will (or something). I came read the text, but it does something to infantry within 6". Not super helpful, I know. :/ Keywords are infantry, character and overlord
The Lord on the same page: Same weapons. Can take weapons from Melee list or a resurrection globe Same resurrection globe effect, and living metal. Also has Will of the Lord: you can reroll failed moral tests for friendly <dynasty> within 6" of this model Keywords are character, infantry, lord I'll get to work on the others in a moment.
Nice, that sounds like the Staff of Light. I'm almost done with the Monolith Dataslate
Galef wrote: I hate to be a downer, but I don't see the keyword "Character" on that Nightbringer's datasheet.
So it doesn't matter that it has <10 wounds....it cannot hide behind warriors.
-
I'm pretty sure "personae" is character.
Oh, I didn't even realize that wasn't in English. The pic is so small that I assumed it was English and didn't see a keyword that looked like "Character"
indeed that is exciting if C'tan can finally 'hide' behind units.
-
Nightbringer special rules:
Character, Monster, Fly, C'than Shard of the Nightbringer.
Eyjio wrote:The idea that a C'tan can hide behind infantry despite being about 4 times as tall is making me laugh about as much as that monolith is making me despair. I guess they decided to solve the issue of C'tan dying almost immediately by instead making enemies really terrible shots, and Necrons have outsourced their monolith crews to the Imperial Guard. Seriously, what's the excuse for making a vehicle which has been BS4 since it was first in the game hit on a 4+? 380 points and the best you can give us is 2 Leman Russes glued together? Jesus. I'm sure it's all fair and balanced, but come on, why even change that arbitrarily?
Monolith killing potential is offset by high number of shots (that first profile has four shots, so 12 S5 Ap-2, 6 S8 AP-2 multidamage. Even at low BS, that's pretty decent.
But the other thing that offsets it some more is the utility. Anti-charge utility, teleports reliably instead of deploys (eat that drop pod meltas!), and teleports friendly units. More of a mobile base and wall than a killing platform, which I'm ok with.
buddha wrote:Posted in the tactics forum but necrons are looking like disgusting infantry lawn mowers and molten slag against vehicles (or really anything T8). Majority str7 weapons mean little to deal with heavy vehicles or MCs. Indeed, tyranids are looking daunting.
While we will have trouble wounding high toughness things on a 4+ or better, all of our weapons having better AP than standard equivalents (and those Shards with AP-4) and lots of things with multi damage means that any damage we do get through are going to stick, super hard.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty decent (although comparing it to a Knight Gallant is pretty depressing), I just wish they'd gone full hog and made it cost the extra points to allow it to hit on 3+. It just comes across as a weird change - the Monolith, supposedly one of the most advanced vehicles in the game, is now as accurate as bob the guardsman. Maybe it's just me, but that's really... strange.
So all the weaponds on the monolith can shoot at the same targer?
Becuse there is no fire arcs anymore even if the weapon it self cant turn and face the target?
It will be interesting to see how things are lining up going forward.
If I had to guess fighting twice is that they can activate twice over the course of a turn following all the steps involved in activation. So it will be interesting to see how the timing and tactics of activation play into such an ability.
Galef wrote: I hate to be a downer, but I don't see the keyword "Character" on that Nightbringer's datasheet.
So it doesn't matter that it has <10 wounds....it cannot hide behind warriors.
-
I'm pretty sure "personae" is character.
Oh, I didn't even realize that wasn't in English. The pic is so small that I assumed it was English and didn't see a keyword that looked like "Character"
indeed that is exciting if C'tan can finally 'hide' behind units.
-
Nightbringer special rules:
Character, Monster, Fly, C'than Shard of the Nightbringer.
So yep it can hide behind units.
Fly?
Good luck tarpitting my Nightbringer, gonna just pop out and use Powers and Gaze. That's freaking amazing.
Powers of the Ctan
Choose one of these powers per Ctan. You can also roll a D3 (lol)
1-Antimatter Meteor: Roll a D6. On a 2+ the closest enemy unity within 24 inches suffers D3 mortal wounds
2-Temporal Arrow: Target an enemy within 24 inches. Roll a D6. If you roll higher than the wounds characteristic of the target, kill a model (not super sure on this one)
3-Seismic Assault: Roll a D6 for each model in a target unit within 24 inches. For each 6, the unit suffers a wound.
Eyjio wrote:The idea that a C'tan can hide behind infantry despite being about 4 times as tall is making me laugh about as much as that monolith is making me despair. I guess they decided to solve the issue of C'tan dying almost immediately by instead making enemies really terrible shots, and Necrons have outsourced their monolith crews to the Imperial Guard. Seriously, what's the excuse for making a vehicle which has been BS4 since it was first in the game hit on a 4+? 380 points and the best you can give us is 2 Leman Russes glued together? Jesus. I'm sure it's all fair and balanced, but come on, why even change that arbitrarily?
Monolith killing potential is offset by high number of shots (that first profile has four shots, so 12 S5 Ap-2, 6 S8 AP-2 multidamage. Even at low BS, that's pretty decent.
But the other thing that offsets it some more is the utility. Anti-charge utility, teleports reliably instead of deploys (eat that drop pod meltas!), and teleports friendly units. More of a mobile base and wall than a killing platform, which I'm ok with.
buddha wrote:Posted in the tactics forum but necrons are looking like disgusting infantry lawn mowers and molten slag against vehicles (or really anything T8). Majority str7 weapons mean little to deal with heavy vehicles or MCs. Indeed, tyranids are looking daunting.
While we will have trouble wounding high toughness things on a 4+ or better, all of our weapons having better AP than standard equivalents (and those Shards with AP-4) and lots of things with multi damage means that any damage we do get through are going to stick, super hard.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty decent (although comparing it to a Knight Gallant is pretty depressing), I just wish they'd gone full hog and made it cost the extra points to allow it to hit on 3+. It just comes across as a weird change - the Monolith, supposedly one of the most advanced vehicles in the game, is now as accurate as bob the guardsman. Maybe it's just me, but that's really... strange.
I think it's a bit more fluffy. Monoliths are, well, monolithic. They should be massive and sturdy... but also slow as beans, meaning they don't necessarily line up shots the best.
Also can't wait to charge it into enemies, good luck dealing with that tarpit with your Tacticals or Fire Warriors.
Lorex wrote:So all the weaponds on the monolith can shoot at the same targer?
Becuse there is no fire arcs anymore even if the weapon it self cant turn and face the target?
docdoom77 wrote: It just hit me that a knight can choose to make 12 attacks in melee at S8, AP-2, D3 Damage!
I don't see any text relegating Titanic Feet in any way, so just make all your attacks titanic feet attacks!
From what I recall from reading the rules for melee when making attacks you decide how to divide your attacks with your various melee weapons (and then if you have a weapon that gives bonus attacks you add those on top of your base attacks but can't choose to do, say, your bonus chain sword attack, with a power sword).
So yes, you can stomp the squishy things like you're making blood wine.
Caederes wrote: Ok guys, here are the points cost of current Imperial Knights versus new Imperial Knights accounting for all the smaller guns they are equipped with (i.e. a Paladin has two Heavy Stubbers) EDIT: Fixed a few mistakes, I forgot to count the Reaper Chainswords for some of the variants and somehow pointed Gallants higher than the others
Universal for all -
OLD *Add +5 points to replace a Heavy Stubber with a Meltagun
NEW *Add +17 points to replace a Heavy Stubber with a Meltagun (but you don't pay for the original Heavy Stubber being replaced, so it's more like +13 points)
Crusader OLD - 425 (with Thermal Cannon)
Crusader OLD - 430 (with Rapid Fire Battle Cannon)
Crusader NEW - 512 (with Thermal Cannon)
Crusader NEW - 540 (with Rapid Fire Battle Cannon)
Errant OLD - 370
Errant NEW - 430
Gallant OLD - 325
Gallant NEW - 389
Paladin OLD - 375
Paladin NEW - 458
Warden OLD - 375
Warden NEW - 466
Thunderstrike Gauntlets are only 5 points more expensive than Reaper Chainswords now as opposed to 10 points more expensive.
Now, as for those top-mounted guns...
Ironstorm Missile Pod OLD - 30
Ironstorm Missile Pod NEW - 16
Stormspear Rocket Pod OLD - 40
Stormspear Rocket Pod NEW - 45
Twin Icarus Autocannon OLD - 35
Twin Icarus Autocannon NEW - 30
Ouch. That is a major bump in price.
They have 24 wounds. I think a points bump was well deserved.
Yea, but they are down to a 5++ and diminish with wounds. They are going to be heavily reliant on that 5++ now too, because most things anti-tank are ignoring that armor save too.
I dunno, I feel like they maybe were bumped too high - but that is my kneejerk. Maybe it will be just right!
Command Barge
Edit: forgot options. Here they are.
-The overlord can replace his Staff of Light with anything from the melee weapons list. (amusingly, in Italian this weapon is a Light Stick)
-Overlord can take a resurrection globe
-The Command Barge can replace its Gauss Cannon with a Tesla Cannon
Wave of Command: At the start of each turn, choose a friendly infantry unity with <dynasty> within 12" of this model. Add 1 to the Advance, charge and hit rolls for this unit until the start of your next turn. A unit cannot benefit from Wave of Command or You Know My Will (this is the overlord's ability that I can't make out) on your next turn.
Quantum Shielding: any time this unit suffers an unsaved wound, roll D6. If you roll lower than the damage inflicted by the attack, ignore it. For example: If you suffer 4 damage and you roll a 3, ignore the damage.
Globe of resurrection: same as always.
Explode: on a 6 it blows up and does some mortal wounds, but how many is out of frame.
The Fortress of Redemtpion has 7+ BS when it has 10 or less wounds. That means that it can only attack Flyers with the double lasscanon, with a 6, and all other weapons are basically dissabled? Is a elegant way to do it.
So a Sisters Rhino can transport 10 models without Jump packs from the same sisters chapter only, any number of units. A Fortress of Redemption can "transport" 30 models, but all must be the same unit, (any type of armor, so 30 terminators is cool), and can be joined by an infinite number of characters.
Good to see elimination of tedious universal rules like "Bulky" and bespoke rules is producing a more coherent, consistent game. I'm sure the paragraph they saved in the core rules is TOTALLY worth it. Although, with the basic physical rulebook coming in at 280 pages, I'm not sure how that is relevant.
All in all though, the leaks seem pretty neat so far. Major point cost changes do seem to indicate some serious effort on game balance.
TABLE:
Wounds--M--BS--Portal of Exile
11-20+--6"--4+--4+
6-10--5"--5+--5+
1-5--4"--6+--6+
Heavy Gauss Arc: R:24" Heavy 3 S:5 AP:-2 D:1
Particle Whip: R:24" Heavy 6 S:8 AP:-2 D3
LIVING METAL: (Pg. 84)
EXPLOSION: If the Miniature is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before it is removed from the battlefield. On a 6, units in 6" take D6 mortal wounds
FLOATING FORTRESS: This miniature can move and shoot heavy weapons without suffering the penalty to shoot to impact
GRAVITIC: always measure the distances and reaches from and to the helmet is this miniature, even if it has a base
FALLING DEATH: During deployment, you can place a monolith in the upper atmosphere instead of deploying it on the battlefield. At the end of any Movement phase you can set this model up anywhere more than 12" from an enemy model.
PORTAL OF EXILE: When a unit set up a monster or a vehicle charges miniature, its exile portal pits activurse. And compiralo with the required value is the table above. If the roll has exino, the unit that is charged suffers mortal injuries
GATE OF ETERNITY: When deploying a miniature, at the same time you can place any number of <Dynasty> Infantry units in a necropolis world instead of deploying it in battle. Before the monolith moves in one of your Movement phases a single unit that you have placed in your necropolis city can be transported to the battlefield for the monolith. Deploy the unit so that it is completely within 5 "or less of the monolith and more than 1" of the enemy. If all Night Scythes and Monoliths are destroyed, the units that remain in the necroplois world are considered as eliminated.
Some of this will sound weird, I couldn't quite read all the text
Top weapon is assault D3, hits automatically and ignores cover
Next Assault 2 St. User, can be fired when you're within 1" of enemies, or at targets within 1" of friends
Next S. User AP -3, D2
Looks like frag and Krak grenades after that
-Death to the False Emperor
-Lucius has a 4+ invuln. Each time he passes an Invuln save in the combat phase, roll D6. On a 4+ the attacking unit suffers a mortal wound after all attacks are resolved.
-If all Lucius' melee attacks are directed at an enemy character, roll 2 extra attacks. These attacks have to be directed at the same character.
Some Dark Angels leaks (no pictures, grain of salt and all that). Source is B&C, poster ChaosPhoenix (see link for original post).
There are leaks. I'll give you some.
Belial allows to reroll failed hit rolls 6" around him. With the Sword of Silence he always wounds on 2+, except vehicles. The Sword also comes with a parrying dagger, reducing enemy hit rolls by 1.
Death Wing Knights are T4, but W3. Their flails do 2 damage. Bbuuutt "unused" damage spills over to new modells. They come with an item that ignores psychic powers on a 3+, but is destroyed after one successful save.
Death Wing Terminators have the same item.
Black Wing Knights move 14" standard.
Apothecaries are multi wound characters.
Venerable Dreadnoughts hit on +2/+2 and are T7 W7 or 8.
TABLE:
Wounds--M--BS--Portal of Exile
11-20+--6"--4+--4+
6-10--5"--5+--5+
1-5--4"--6+--6+
Heavy Gauss Arc: R:24" Heavy 3 S:5 AP:-2 D:1
Particle Whip: R:24" Heavy 6 S:8 AP:-2 D3
LIVING METAL: (Pg. 84)
EXPLOSION: If the Miniature is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before it is removed from the battlefield. On a 6, units in 6" take D6 mortal wounds
FLOATING FORTRESS: This miniature can move and shoot heavy weapons without suffering the penalty to shoot to impact
GRAVITIC: always measure the distances and reaches from and to the helmet is this miniature, even if it has a base
FALLING DEATH: During deployment, you can place a monolith in the upper atmosphere instead of deploying it on the battlefield. At the end of any Movement phase you can set this model up anywhere more than 12" from an enemy model.
PORTAL OF EXILE: When a unit set up a monster or a vehicle charges miniature, its exile portal pits activurse. And compiralo with the required value is the table above. If the roll has exino, the unit that is charged suffers mortal injuries
GATE OF ETERNITY: When deploying a miniature, at the same time you can place any number of <Dynasty> Infantry units in a necropolis world instead of deploying it in battle. Before the monolith moves in one of your Movement phases a single unit that you have placed in your necropolis city can be transported to the battlefield for the monolith. Deploy the unit so that it is completely within 5 "or less of the monolith and more than 1" of the enemy. If all Night Scythes and Monoliths are destroyed, the units that remain in the necroplois world are considered as eliminated.
Some of this will sound weird, I couldn't quite read all the text
Well this gave me some ides. This can be really fun.
Dark Eldar/Druhkari via a friend, from an Eldar FB group: apply salt as required.
I've just read our index. I've got few observations to share.
tl;dl it seems really balanced with every unit viable but without any really big power boost.
-First of all we have to wait for the proper Codex, becouse it's just the basics. Minimum special rules for the units and without any special items except weapons.
-Forget what you know about points values. almost everything have a different cost maybe except Venoms.
-Vehicles with 10+ wounds and being less likely to blow up should really benefit our faction.
-FNP is like in 7th game turn based.
1: 6+ inv 2:reroll run/charge
3:+1to hit but CC only
Units:
-Archon would be a cheap HQ filler. Even Bestmaster is more expensive O_o and new huskblade is a joke. His special boost is just use my LD or whatever.
-Haemonculus give +1t bubble but only for coven units.
-Succub seems about the same, I forget what she gives cult units, rerolls maybe. Archite Glaive is now +2s but -1 to hit
-Court are similiar I think to what we had in 7th.
-Warriors are 7 points.
-wyches are similiar but with 'no escape' rule.
-Incubi got reasonable price and the mandrakes seems really good With nice shooting attack, 5++ and Deep strike.
-beasts are looking interesting, high attack values and movement. Beastmaster let them use his LD and give to hit rerolls.
-Reavers are about twice as costly O_o Got second wound but losses all interesting abilities. Caltrops now activates only when the opponent is running away. Meh! Their turboboost is just straight 24'' now.
-Scourges are cheap and have that no scatter Deep Strike.
-Haywire now damages vehicles on 4+ and deal 1 bonus mortal wound or D3 if you roll 6 to wound.
-Wracks and grots are about the same as they were. I was hoping on some more wounds for the G-Unit Haemoculus seems mandatory for the +1t now.
-Rider cost about two 7th ed Riders O_o you can mix passengers now (except Incubi) All have 5++.
-Ravager is now the same price as a Rider.
-Venoms should be gold. -1 to hit for the opponent and still you got this 5++. Obvious upgrade for the splinter cannon is now free I think
-Flyers with more wounds seems really good now, But they are just -1 to hit for ground units.
The Bomb is generating D6s for every model Voidraven will fly over (3d6 for monsters/vehicles) maximum is 10 dice. Then they will deal mortal wounds on 4+
-Taloi are cheaper but nerfed with only 6t/6s got 8'' movement but now could explode. The blast deals mortal wounds so can easily damage other taloi. Of course they got more wounds now.
-Cronos is more expensive than Talos and give no boost I think. He is the damage dealer now.
Ronin_eX wrote: Some Dark Angels leaks (no pictures, grain of salt and all that). Source is B&C, poster ChaosPhoenix (see link for original post).
Death Wing Knights are T4, but W3. Their flails do 2 damage. Bbuuutt "unused" damage spills over to new modells. They come with an item that ignores psychic powers on a 3+, but is destroyed after one successful save.
Does "unused" damage spill over onto Deathwing Knights, or their targets?
EDIT: Also, thanks for posting this.
Ronin_eX wrote: Some Dark Angels leaks (no pictures, grain of salt and all that). Source is B&C, poster ChaosPhoenix (see link for original post).
There are leaks. I'll give you some.
Belial allows to reroll failed hit rolls 6" around him. With the Sword of Silence he always wounds on 2+, except vehicles. The Sword also comes with a parrying dagger, reducing enemy hit rolls by 1.
Death Wing Knights are T4, but W3. Their flails do 2 damage. Bbuuutt "unused" damage spills over to new modells. They come with an item that ignores psychic powers on a 3+, but is destroyed after one successful save.
Death Wing Terminators have the same item.
Black Wing Knights move 14" standard.
Apothecaries are multi wound characters.
Venerable Dreadnoughts hit on +2/+2 and are T7 W7 or 8.
Azreals helmet got a range upgrade.
Is that ok for now?
Is there
Spoiler:
or could you ask for it? I don't have an account on B&C
any rule news about SW? We have seen weapons and cost, but nothing about actual stats and rules
>Dark Angels plasma weapons get to re-roll overheat results.
>Deathwing can re-roll 1s against CSM models in combat.
>Maces are AP-3 in combat.
>Still get +1 Toughness if they stay in base contact.
Top weapon is assault D3, hits automatically and ignores cover
Thats his doom siren
Next Assault 2 St. User, can be fired when you're within 1" of enemies, or at targets within 1" of friends
Thats his whip
Next S. User AP -3, D2
Thats his sword
Looks like frag and Krak grenades after that
-Death to the False Emperor
-Lucius has a 4+ invuln. Each time he passes an Invuln save in the combat phase, roll D6. On a 4+ the attacking unit suffers a mortal wound after all attacks are resolved.
-If all Lucius' melee attacks are directed at an enemy character, roll 2 extra attacks. These attacks have to be directed at the same character.
Hmm, swapping from Chainswords to Chainaxes on Berzerkers is an interesting trade now. They get +1 attack from the Chainsword, or +2 total if you account for the Fight twice rule. They get +1 Strength and -1 AP from the Chainaxe. Seeing as they are already Strength 5 base, I'm not sure which is better honestly. I guess it depends on if Chainaxes cost any points.
But....yeah, Kharn and Berzerkers will finally see play again! They are nuts, especially at only 173 for Kharn and 16 points each before weapons for Berzerkers (though possibly barring Chainaxes, none of their weapons cost any points if we follow the Loyalist example).
>Dark Angels plasma weapons get to re-roll overheat results.
>Deathwing can re-roll 1s against CSM models in combat.
>Maces are AP-3 in combat.
>Still get +1 Toughness if they stay in base contact.
So if true, no changes hah.
I want this to be true so bad, but I am piling sodium on right now.
3W, T5 DWK's? With AP-3 D2 mauls that can cause spillover damage? That sounds like a dream come true.
The CSM thing is just Hatred.
And getting to re-roll plasma without character oversight would be nice.
Caederes wrote: Hmm, swapping from Chainswords to Chainaxes on Berzerkers is an interesting trade now. They get +1 attack from the Chainsword, or +2 total if you account for the Fight twice rule. They get +1 Strength and -1 AP from the Chainaxe. Seeing as they are already Strength 5 base, I'm not sure which is better honestly. I guess it depends on if Chainaxes cost any points.
But....yeah, Kharn and Berzerkers will finally see play again! They are nuts, especially at only 173 for Kharn and 16 points each before weapons for Berzerkers
Swap your bolt pistol for a chainaxe instead and you can get the +1S -1AP, plus one bonus attack without it.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: FALLING DEATH: During deployment, you can place a monolith in the upper atmosphere instead of deploying it on the battlefield.
I love the wording here. Do you need friends in NASA to be able to deep strike Necrons?
So a khorne berzerker costs 16 where a death company marine costs 17? Excuse me, but I can't see why. Powerlevel is even more ridiculous. You have to take a lot of powerweapons and pistols to even out 5 to 9. Someone want to mathhammer this encounter?
>Dark Angels plasma weapons get to re-roll overheat results.
>Deathwing can re-roll 1s against CSM models in combat.
>Maces are AP-3 in combat.
>Still get +1 Toughness if they stay in base contact.
So if true, no changes hah.
I want this to be true so bad, but I am piling sodium on right now.
3W, T5 DWK's? With AP-3 D2 mauls that can cause spillover damage? That sounds like a dream come true.
The CSM thing is just Hatred.
And getting to re-roll plasma without character oversight would be nice.
But yeah, until I see the pages...
I'd just settle for a points list for now, so I could get a grip on building my army for 8th.
Woof. I'm really disappointed to see Orks moving so damn slowly this edition. One can only assume that their points go lowered to make up for the additional model losses you'll take slogging across the board? If not, I'm not losing hope yet as I assume we'll get something to equalize that?
In looking at the Rulebook leak section on shooting, am I right in assuming that a unit on one side of a Citadel Wood with models that could see to shoot an enemy unit on the far side of that Citadel Wood, could fire at them with no penalty?
Same would apply to say a unit of Tau standing behind another unit of Tau (if you spread the front unit apart so that individual models could see through the unit in front)?
flakpanzer wrote: In looking at the Rulebook leak section on shooting, am I right in assuming that a unit on one side of a Citadel Wood with models that could see to shoot an enemy unit on the far side of that Citadel Wood, could fire at them with no penalty?
Same would apply to say a unit of Tau standing behind another unit of Tau (if you spread the front unit apart so that individual models could see through the unit in front)?
In the basic rules, that's correct. One assumes the advanced rules will make it a bit more complicated.
Some there suspect it will be in codexes not index books.
pointless.
